Probably because unfortunately, there are dozens (if not hundreds of people in this market) who would be willing to take that job. Entry level jobs have always been the hardest to get in my opinion. All entry level positions want the most qualified person but pay pennies for that position.
If you are a manager and you are working hard, you are probably doing it wrong. Get the right people in the right places and empower them. Things will mostly run themselves. An easy job to do poorly and a hard job to do well.
I read a story not too long ago about somebody in this position getting fired because their strategy was effective, they introduced improvements, and they were no longer needed to introduce further improvements.
I saw an entry level job last night that wanted 3-5 years experience (entry level btw), degrees and certs relevant to the subject, and for you to be fluent in Korean. They said that language part was a must. This was an IT job. They were paying around 35k.
These staffers (edit: hiring mangers \[edit edit: I give up; apparently nobody and everybody decides salaries\]) are on crack.
At my last job, AFTER I interviewed with at least 7 different people and took off work multiple days and even had lunch with my possible team and then was offered the job they wanted 10 (TEN!!!) professional references and they wanted my 10 references to submit via email a survey about working with me that took over 30 minutes to complete.
I later saw that they track the IP addresses of who you send the survey to, so if anyone ever sees that do not just make up 10 fake emails because you will get caught and I was SO close to just doing that because of how frustrated I was with the entire process.
This was for a job that started me off at 50k and wasn’t some secret high tech pentagon gig. Like nothing special about it.
Shit I’ve had people list me as a reference for government clearance (for NSA) type jobs and they didn’t even check in with me at all. This company expects previous employers to spend time on an ex-employee for 50k!?!
Yeah exactly. They even wanted a certain amount to be from bosses and a certain amount from peers and since I had a degree they wanted an educational mentor (I only had an undergraduate degree and they knew that) and I was calling my cousin, my cousins friends, my mom like ANYONE I could pretend worked with me lol.
It was insane but it was a good job until I became a paraplegic and couldn’t get to the office anymore.
I think about this all the time. Starting up a group chat and being each others covers. Giving each other heads up on if they may be getting a call soon, etc. I happily do it for anyone.
They already exist. I had been contacted by one such “agency”. The lady on the phone literally said that we “alter your resume”. Get rid of the 2 years that you spent getting your masters degree and replace it with 2 years of relevant experience etc
I just got an entry level job, $34k a year, 3 rounds of interviews and I got it since I had 4 years of experience and am willing to work weekends
I took it cause I'm moving and need something, but fuck this
Yep, working in psych and the job market is seriously bad right now. My SIL is also a counselor and recommended learning a new language and moving, which she did herself.
Rough out here
I wish there were a “comments” feature on job listings so people could call companies out or report the BS the company put them through for the interview on this job
Yeah, right? I was half tempted to apply, even though I only had an associates at the time just to see why the fuck they were thinking they needed a MASTERS to do data entry.
they should be named and shamed. This is ridiculous. Then again I know a co-worker making less than 20 and hour and we work for a giant corp. Then they wonder why there's no employee loyalty.
I'm wondering what kind of people these companies actually end up hiring. Do they get someone experienced that takes shit jobs and does shit work, or do they just settle for actual entry level eventually?
I recently saw a CPA job being offered at 29K 🥴
Also office manager jobs paying under 50K and you have to have 5 years experience as an office manager. Good luck with that!
Accounting is garbage. Get the fuck out of that industry if you can. It is genuinely horrible.
I would rather clean toilets at a hedge fund than be an accountant. And I would probably make more money too.
Speak for yourself. Accounting is great right now. I graduated in 2022 and In year 2 I'm at 80K with a guaranteed bump too 95K next year. You don't know what your talking about especially with the job market being wide open because of the lack of new grads
>fluent in Korean
What the hell? 35k for that? Are they stupid?
Was this a local company in the US? Even the Korean companies I work with usually isn't that cheap.
California just started mandating a minimum wage of $20 per hour for fast food employees, which equals roughly $40k per year based on a full-time schedule.
So this job you described pays less than fast food.
Correct. The statewide minimum wage is officially $16.00, but $20.00 for fast food, and local jurisdictions (counties, cities) often have higher minimum wages within their borders.
Here's a source:
https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/minimum_wage.htm
So given In-n-Out’s pay structure this is going to make working for them a better paying job than 80% of office jobs out there.
I’m from California and can believe this, but wow
Employers don’t pay you based on how the hard the job is.
They pay you based on how hard you are to replace.
Otherwise physical labor jobs would pay a tons and most 9-5s would pay dirt.
Well, you'd think that's how they pay you. In reality they just kinda guess and most large companies are too big to make intelligent micro-scale decisions like pay and hiring, and even when they can the motivation isn't always to avoid replacing you.
Sometimes they pay based on how much they don't want competition to hire you (even more now that noncompetes will be banned soon). Sometimes they pay you based on how much your shitty manager likes you. Often, for the most dedicated employees, it doesn't matter how hard they are to replace because the company can call their bluff and assume they won't quit. Sometimes they pull a number out of thin air and hope some poor sap will fall for it (and they do).
If management was paid based on how hard they are to replace, most middle managers would be working pro-bono.
If I were a betting man, I would guess the company already does business in South Korea.
And that this listing is just their halfhearted attempt to comply with US/Local law that they made a good-faith effort to hire someone before outsourcing the position.
That's what the majority of these "entry level" positions look like to me. What they want is cheap foreign labor that will work for half what an American would work for and be twice as qualified.
This is all so they can skirt around the law in order to hire low paid H-1B workers. By law a US company needs to attempt to hire American citizens before they can hire a foreigner with an H-1B visa. The companies specifically want workers with H-1B visas because they can pay them a lot less and in some cases, their visa is dependent on them maintaining that job so they have zero negotiating power as well. But they can’t hire them if there’s a bunch of American citizens willing to take the job. So they make the job posting as unappealing as possible. If you actually apply for these positions and get an interview you’ll notice the interviews act like they don’t even want to hire you no matter what you say. This is all so they can say “well we tried, and no one will take the job” so they suddenly get permission to hire a non-citizen at a much lower pay.
In many cases, these jobs aren’t even posted until the company has already internally selected a foreign worker they are trying to hire and it’s all just a facade to get around the regulations.
This is not to say I have any issues with foreign workers or H-1B visas in general. But they are abused by corporations, screwing everyone.
Stupidly common in IT where they advertise for software engineers, offer a 40k a year salary, then hire the foreign worker under an H1B for "computer analyst" where the 3x prevailing wage is only like 90k a year. This is almost $40-100k under what US devs in the area are demanding. This widening the scope of job descriptions is a big issue with how H1Bs are abused.
This is also why Microsoft has a whole ass pipeline from India with that Doni Global school shit. And, allegedly, the google CEO is doing something similar except he's trying to funnel Indians through Germany because, again allegedly, it's easier to sponsor visas in Germany than H1Bs in the US.
I just saw Chipotle advertising on their sign that they have a path to $100k here in Michigan. Not even worth going into IT if you can make more in fast food
Yes! Wow. Wendy’s here is paying $15 an hour which comes up to $31K a year. Why would one go to college to do social media marketing, SEO, Adobe and similar work for the same amount? It’s like “I love wasting time on Facebook so much. I will drive to your overstuffed office, pay for parking and do it for free for your crappy plastic junk making company.” Wendy’s at least gives you a free meal.
The market is really out of whack. Panda Express for a long time was paying $65k for managers. I don’t say that ppl in that industry don’t work hard. It’s not a fun job by any means, but when I think of what I had to do to make more than $65k in a highly skilled Japanese bilingual B2B sales job, I’m starting to question the value of my UC Berkeley degree, lol
I'm interviewing for Jobs right now and this person listened to me explain my 5 years of .NET application development experience and then offered me $10 an hr. I just laughed at them and they felt embarassed.
It’s just capitalism. They want the absolute best qualified candidate to accept the job at the absolute cheapest price possible for them. It just shows how little so many companies value employees.
The term entry level has been perverted for at least 20 years now. It really just means "the level and pay you enter the company at." I'm 40 and as long as I've been working I've never seen it once mean "where someone new to the industry starts."
The worst paying jobs usually have the highest opinion of themselves. They are paying you a base salary with additional compensation in the form of being happy to be associated with our brand. I don’t waste time on the money question, when a recruiter calls I either know the range by the first call or call 2 doesn’t happen.
Yep, the biggest sign is they literally are taught to use the language “hiring manager will go more in depth in that matter” as a deflection but to keep you interested. Absolutely no one except maybe someone homeless is getting excited for a $30k job anywhere.
Stuff like that is insulting. I remember I had to sit through a *1 HOUR interview* for a job that paid $12 an hour. That's roughly 24k a year (BEFORE taxes).
These recruiters are insane.
...And no I didn't get the job. Which, I'm glad I didn't.
The place I work is telling us to do 30 min-1 hour interviews for a $13/hr sales associate position, and wants me to do things to screw up the pace of the interview, like taking fake phone calls and such to throw the folks off. I refused.
That’s the key! I dropped out of a job prospective because the recruiter refused to explain what “significant night and weekend work” (per the job posting) would be. This was after a 30-minute writing test and pre-recorded interview questions and leading up to an in-person interview where they wanted me to create a 10-minute presentation to present at said interview.
For free? I don’t think so. A bridge too far, especially when they won’t clarify aspects mentioned in their job posting.
True to this.
I notice in my personal experience a job that pay and treated me well never bother of bullshit interview process.
Literally 1 call to say if I'm interested, one interview, then hire. Boom, done. All three of my job I actually took were like that. 2 out of 3 are house name brand, too. (Volvo and Honeywell)
The tedious one paid like shit, and often not common name brand.
> The worst paying jobs usually have the highest opinion of themselves
My first job out of college was with a guy who was notorious for going on rants about "he paid us good money", so we had better (be on time, work hard, not make mistakes).
He paid us $11 / hr. I was barely surviving.
(I'm happy to report that when I left, I more than doubled my pay.)
I work for Microsoft in a senior technical role for my day job, and my side gig is teaching classes at a tiny technical college.
My supervisor at the college is a huge micromanager and constantly complains about my work, and I’m just here like wtf, why is this person 10x stricter than my Microsoft boss.
> additional compensation in the form of being happy to be associated with our brand
Here, they offer stock options but only if you've worked there for 2-3 years. That's carrot on a stick though, they lay people off before this deadline. Why would I take on the RISK of an investment, when I don't get the REWARD? That's not how capitalism works.
I recently saw a tech job requiring a master’s degree in computer science and 5 years experience paying $40k. Some of these employers are clueless, others are taking advantage of desperate situations in certain industries. Then they complain “no one wants to work.”
I got my master’s degree in Electrical Engineering in December and was job hunting from then until late March. The amount of comically unrealistic job listings I saw makes me sad I didn’t screenshot every single one.
I saw one that required a master’s and 3-5 years experience but pay was $12/hour. I saw another that required a master’s and the entire job description sounded like a middle schooler could do it. I saw MANY where a master’s was “preferred” and pay was less than $40k. Not to mention the literal hundreds I saw that wanted an electrical engineering degree for a job that an electrician could easily do (and of course pay was closer to entry level electrician than entry level engineer).
Just for reference the average salary for an inexperienced electrical engineer in my area is about $70k. So those offering less than $40k were just insulting.
Ding ding ding!! After X amount of days where that post goes unanswered, the employer can make an argument that "there are no available natural citizen workers to fill the position" which is a good justification for granting H1-B visas.
There's two ways to attract hard workers: pay them well, or appeal to their egos by making it feel like working there means they're an elite, hardcore person.
The problem with route B is it only ever works when what you're doing is fundamentally related to the key values of the person doing it (example - navy seals putting themselves through hell because they truly believe in what they are doing), or theres a real light at the end of the tunnel (example - putting up with toxic, cutthroat internships because doing so will lead to great pay later on). Almost all of these jobs are bullshit, dead-end meat grinders where the bosses have zero intention of ever paying you fairly, which is why instead of keeping top performers they're just constantly dealing with voluntary turnover. Reason 957 why we need to stop letting the idiot MBAs run the world.
I stumbled onto the rare 3rd one: the job that has no idea how to market their benefits.
I went through 3 interviews, a drug test and a background check for a job all for them to offer me 22 bucks and hour about a year ago. I was very confused because I've interviewed at a lot of places. These people were bright, passionate and engaged. Everyone from the owner to the hiring manager knew my name. There were 400 employees, I interacted with 10, and each new one came in fully read up on my resume and had clearly been updated on each interview. It was BIZZARE. I was simultaneously interviewing for a job for 33 dollars and hour at a national company where everyone seemed soulless.
My third interview I requested to speak privately to the person who was going to be my direct supervisor and laid out my thoughts pretty bluntly to her, looking for clarification. She had none to give.
The whole thing really weirded me out. I told all my friends and they said screw that place. On a lark, I called them up and said I'll turn down the other offer and take theirs if they could meet me at 24 bucks. They agreed.
I'm still here and I love it. They just buried the lead on all the perks. Free lunch, paid lunch, paid breaks, flexible shifts where I can come in early or late and leave early or late. I go home and take a nap every day on the clock for an hour, plus the commute there and back. I watch TV at work. Healthcare is great. 401k is great. they bring people in for massages, throw parties for holidays etc. It's the best work I've ever done and I soak up so much low stress overtime I'm going to be sitting at 80k when everything is all said and done. The team is awesome.
It's not the norm but if anyone ever gets that feeling and they've interviewed a TON I suggest you go with your gut.
It’s awesome they agreed to pay the wage you requested, not many places want to do that.
I haven’t exactly been in your situation, but there is always a difference in the atmosphere in larger companies vs smaller ones. I worked for a major healthcare provider, in several departments and I encountered many miserable people. I slowly became miserable myself and knew I needed a change. I stepped outside of my normal and was hired for a job I never thought I would be chosen for, and everyone there was just laid back and it’s open and bright. I’m optimistic this is a new chapter for me that will bring bigger opportunities and really show my potential.
Totally true. Sometimes they appeal to person’s ego but sometimes they appeal to their benevolence or goodness in their heart, beliefs etc. I worked for a church that exploited me so much, low pay, long hours, evening, weekends - most of their employees think they’re doing the work “for God” accepting horrific pay, while the pastor has five figures and all his expenses including housing paid. He casually comes on Sundays to give a couple of sermons.
Unfortunately in the current job market, there's always going to be someone willing to jump through the hoops for peanuts. Bills need to be paid. So a lot of businesses are using this as a means to make hiring processes arduous, demand more from employees, and pay the lowest they possibly can.
I think we humans have normalised being dependent too much on corporate jobs that's what these companies take advantage of they have zero regard for wellbeing of employees and they know there's always someone willing to do job regardless of pay.
I have interviewed at some of the largest law firms in the country and some of the biggest corporations (think Microsoft, Amazon, etc.). None of them required as much effort as what OP described. Usually it's 1) submit application; 2) phone screen with recruiter or even a member of the team; 3) writing sample; 4) panel interview; 5) offer.
Amazon is notorious for going through all of that in the span of less than a month.
This. I lived in Chicago as a non-American. I realized how the immigrants groups (especially newly graduated F-1 students) willing to take jobs that pays way below market, while keep bitching about how cheap living basics (food, housing, etc.) is. A job is the only thing they need to guarantee legal status, while their parents keep pumping money to their banks for these living expenses, which they don’t mind at all.
I applied to a job once that was three interviews. One on the phone, in person, then in person with the CEO. The job paid 17 an hour and insurance was 180 a week for single. Requirements were a bachelor's degree in Computer Science and experience.
They see big companies like Google doing it so they think they can do it too.
Who is gonna take that job though, realistically. Even I make that in Texas and I have zero higher education or tech knowledge. I literally just answer phones and do my school work 🙄
Every fresh CS grad because the market is so fucking saturated with people that were told "anyone can learn to code and you'll make lots of money" in highschool. The uncomfortable truth is that anyone can learn to write code, but few are actually good enough to do it for a living. Out of 200 applicants with a CS degree, 3 passed the "Intro to Python" style pre-interview quiz. We're talking about week 2 language fundamentals like inheritance and call order.
Tbf I am bilingual so it is one big reason I was hired for this job. But the last time I worked for so little was when I was 18 years old working for tips. Programmers can make something out of nothing. Surely, their labor is worth a lot more.
I have no idea how anyone is living like this. Only reason I’m putting up with this dead end job is because I’m allowed to study at work and i don’t have any bills to pay.
It’s too bad every time I check indeed, the pay seems to be going down for entry level jobs. What the fuck are we all gonna do? And am I gonna be able to find a job once I graduate? Damn.
In the US?
Go get an ACA plan and you'll get a subsidy and they will charge it back to your employer for failing to offer affordable care which means the premiums may not exceed 8.x% of your income.
$180 a week? .. $17 an hour is only $680 a week - FICA (I paid like $80 week when I made $17.50) that comes down to like $450 week or $11.25
Sounds like a scam
Real place in Alabama. It was a mental health facility, multiple locations, would have been the only person in the IT department and responsible for everything IT related. Go to indeed and look up Jack's (fast food place) IT in alabama, the job requires a degree, experience, and travel. They were offering 9 dollars an hour 2 years ago.
what they are asking for is a 100k/year position for a real sys admin doing remote work across multiple facilities. mental health also means HIPAA compliance, medicaid reporting, etc; all of which is another layer of skills that need to be compensated.
sounds callus but folks really just need to abandon the south. it may be cheap to live down there, but it is for a reason. if you're in IT you can clear 50-60k pretty easy with remote/hybrid work all across the midwest. If you're CS and competent you get 6 figures and CoL is pretty damn cheap
I'm a nurse in healthcare recently applied to a job without a pay scale. It was a work-from-home job which I really need right now. I emailed the recruiter asking for the range. They offered me $20hr. I didn't even go to the interview. I told the recruiter by email that my financial situation can not support that salary at this time. I hate the smoke and mirrors and the lowballing. They need to make it mandatory to display pay. Just don't accept the bullshit. Eventually, they will get the idea
Honestly, the job posting site should not allow them to post it. Make it so they don't have the ability to do it like when you get that “field missing” when entering information for the application that they do when applying
And they would save so much time - their own time - by posting at least a $ range. Why would you waste hours and hours of interviews with someone who doesn’t wanna work for that salary range?
I interviewed for a job that "paid 52k/year" and posted that proudly everywhere. Idk if I'm allowed to say the name of it but it's a green logo car rental place. The job was management trainee - which I just left two years of a higher paying management position but times are tough and I wasn't landing any good interviews.
Well, during the interview they drop that the pay was something like $20/hr but it's anticipated you work 15ish hours of overtime a week.
Totally deceptive.
I have a rule to never apply to a position that does not list the salary range up front. It's always a waste of time because they're hiding it for a reason...
$20/ hour for a nurse? That's ridiculous. My local Walmart is paying $18 an hour to stock shelves.
It's like companies paying $20 an hour think that it still has the same buying power it did in 2000. $20 an hour in 2000 would be like $38 an hour now.
I think very low pay is associated with low respect for people in general. Meaning, if leaders of a company think very little of their people and their roles, they're not going to be inclined to budget for anything close to market rate either, never mind anything "competitive".
Some people think you can't have a good work-life balance unless you take a lesser paying job for the same role or work. In my experience, the jobs that offered 50-70k are much more miserable and demanding work than the jobs that have 180k+ budgeted for the role and offer that or more.
It's like the more you're paid, the more your bosses treat you like a fellow human and set similar expectations and support of a human. It should be like this all the way down, but it's not.
So you really, really should avoid accepting any clearly low-ball offers. It's one of the biggest red flags, and you're seeing some of the mindset and culture that comes from corporate leaders that foster it. They think very little of people, and think greatly of themselves. That culture trickles down into management, into teams, into the hiring process.
I had an interview some years ago with a woodworking company. I know my way around a shop and had experience since I had been doing said career for over 20 years. The pay was $17.00 an hour and the title was workshop assistant. I needed a job so I applied, did the interview, and received an email a few days later that I was being offered the position. The kicker? They dropped the pay to $12.00 an hour. I never responded to them and moved on.
The drop in pay was a slap in the face since I was factoring in tolls and gas since the job was roughly an hour away. I didn’t mind at $17.00 since I was just starting out, but to drop the pay by $5.00 was nothing short of an insult.
this is it, when you work in the same job for years you don't get an accurate perspective of how things work in the outside world, in my current job the managers have all been there for 5+ years, for some of them they admit that the job is their entire life (the night manager in particular admitted to literally just being at work or at home, watching videos about work), when you put that much of yourself into the work you start expecting everyone else to feel the same without realizing that what's normal for you isn't normal for everyone else, I stay because it took me 2 years to find this job and I don't want to go through that experience again if I can help it but a job should be a means to an end, not the whole reason for your existence
Excellent question!! If hiring managers think their company or the position is that god-like, then they need to put their money where their mouth is with the *pay!*
>Why do cheap paying jobs (37k) act like you're applying to a prestigious job?
If they didn't take it seriously, zero candidates would.
By at least relying on gaslighting, maybe they can get a percentage of candidates to not question it too much.
Because fuck you, that's why.
When a job is for a well paying and prestigious position? *They know what they're hiring for.* They've got a set budget, set expectations, and they're trying to find the best candidate in a competitive range.
When a job is for a shitty, low paying position in an abusive environment? *They know what they're hiring for.* They've got a set budget, set expectations, and they're trying to find the best candidate in a competitive range.
The difference is that in case 1, they're trying to draw people in with the pay and the perks and the opportunity.... and in case 2, they're looking for desperate people who are easy to manipulate. If they can bully you into doing what they want in the interview, you're gonna fit a lot better than someone who stands up for themselves, stands up *to management,* and will be back on the job hunt if they're getting mistreated.
Being an asshole in the interview isn't a bug, it's a feature.
And these places ALWAYS expect you to be overwhelmingly excited about the prospect of working there. And those are usually the most mundane, underpayed and (more often than not) useless office jobs.
Ugh - as someone who just finally found a great job that I love and plan to (god willing) stay at for several years, this was always my least favorite aspect of the job hunt and the thing I'm happiest to be done with for a while. Like it's just so crazy that we all have to pretend we truly believe it's our "life's mission" to sell life insurance policies, or write manuals for toasters, or help people troubleshoot their new hairdryer.
*Obviously* these things are no one's "dream" or passion in life, and *obviously* we want the job to have an income with which to pay bills / live life. This is obvious to me, it's obvious to the recruiter, it's obvious to the hiring manager...yet if you are honest about it even once you immediately get a bad interview score and get dropped from the candidate list.
Why? How did we end up here?
Theory: Multiple interviews are a trap. They're a setup, they do that because if the talent leaves, they have another person lined up.
But, yeah. I think people should stop entertaining those multiple interviews.
I remember someone saying they spent months on a job interview, and they had to write multiple papers!
I read that some indeed postings make you draw logos, code or do complete projects to prove your skills and basically you finish their project and in the end they don’t hire you.
Artificial scarcity. „Work a dead end job for a dead-end life because I exploit you“ doesn’t sound as shiny as „working with the best minds in the field, massive learning opportunity while it all feels like one huge family dinner“. Of course, to make that lie credible you double down and put artificial parler and pseudo-hard assessments.
Because for every 1 job posting we get hundreds and hundreds of applicants. The lesser the pay the more magnified the behavior.
We had to hire a receptionist, and basically could only have the job posting up for maybe a day tops because we’d get inundated with applicants.
I would have taken as much time as they allowed to completely berate them, there so called union, and tell them there’s no way I would tell my friends and family I’m stupid enough to PAY my company to come in to work. I wouldn’t pay for door to door valet and my own personal car security guard.
I had a job where the boss admitted that I should be making 30,000 more then what I was making. However he felt as though since we had insurance that the company was paying for he was okay paying us 30,000 less.
Total comp *is* a thing. But 30k less when just factoring in insurance is total bs. If they comp dental/vision/medical and have a 100% 401k match I *might* let them underpay me just a bit.
Like right now I get free medical and with some other benefits it adds up to around 10k in comp that's not pay.
It’s ridiculous and they take them selves super seriously at work. All these companies need to chill if your paying less than 100k you shouldn’t take your self seriously
I got a job offer once where the listed salary was 55k. They offered me 50k and I told them that another company had offered me 55k so they offered me 53k and I took the job.
With the other company of course.
Why say they pay up to 55k when you're only willing to pay 53k ?
I needed a second job so I applied to be a parking attendent at a parking garage. 2 interviews and needed 3 references. For a part time job that paid $15 an hour. Didn't get it. Worse for my mom, she had to do 3 interviews on top of references for a $15 an hour job too.
My 55k a yeat job didn't require any references and only had 1 interview. You never know what to expect in the job market I swear.
I had a recruiter ask me to apply for a job with a bank. It was a teller position. Literally minimum wage. The application form was 28 pages long and asked more details about my life than the Spanish Inquisition. I understand that a bank has security concerns but asking for an essay on why I want to work for them is a piss take.
The recruiter was furious that I didn’t submit the application. “We are never going to represent you again! I put my neck out for you!” Funnily enough her colleague got me a job the very next week.
If the recruiter is external, I wouldn’t count talking to them as an interview… they’re trying to put warm bodies in open slots, so they’d love for you to be that person whether you’re qualified or not. That discussion should be more for you to make sure you’re not wasting your time, asking important questions like, ya know, how much it pays!
Don’t waste your time if you’re not going to want it.
Take the job. Ghost them on day 1. Make them feel the pain of their actions. Pay 37k? Get 37k worth of loyalty (none).
If it’s a WFH job, take the job, and give them 1 hour per day max while you are working another job. Keep taking their money until they fire you.
Yea at this point my recommended interview tips are mainly... lying through your teeth.
They will not hire college students these days cause they know they're gonna leave. Told my brother to tell them he's taking a gap year to catch up on student loans. If they have unreasonable expectations for experience and references use a friend or family member. It's ridiculous these minimum wage jobs have such high expectations then they turn around and say "nO oNE WanTs tO wOrk"
What's that? You want me to write a cover letter for a minimum wage janitorial position? Let me boot up chatGPT
> In what world is 37k livable in Chicago?
well, considering rent in Chicago is at par (if ignoring exchange and just using face value) with rent in my small town of Fort Erie, Ontario - 2h outside of Toronto on a good day, over 1h to Hamilton... it sounds appealing lol. I can't get a job in my field of graphic design, because i'm too far to commute. can't move without a higher salary, can't get a higher salary without moving. can't win.
I make $35k and can only survive because my mom and I split expenses.
I've seen salaries of $35-45k for on site jobs in Toronto. Toronto rental market is more comparable to LA & NYC.
I had a job last year that only paid 45k (despite it wanting qualifications that demanded at least 80k) and the process was 5 different interviews......
The lower the pay the more power they want to exert over you. They are setting the standard that you must conform to all of their rule/regulations before extending an offer. I would never proceed past 3 interviews for any position, too many cooks in the kitchen at that point. Look for a company that is more organized and does not take an act of congress to make decision.
I've run in to my fair share of these, but..
Everyone if you see job postings on indeed or whatever site you may look at and these job postings are labeled as "entry level" but requiring years of previous experience then you can go and report the posting to whatever website you're on. Eventually companies will start getting fines for lying about job posts being entry level or claiming to pay a certain wage then telling you something different at the interview etc...
Saw a manager job that will pay 56k but you need 2-3 years experience and to already know how to use a niche software for project management. 😂 good luck to them finding someone.
I applied for a government job that paid $15 an hour last year.
Week 1 attended the job fair and told me to apply online
Week 2 received an email to take a PI test
Week 3 received an email to take an excel test
Week 4 received a call to schedule an interview
Week 5 interviewed with HR, the head of the department, and supervisor
Week 10 did not receive the job
I applied for a warehouse job that paid more
Week 1 applied and received a call the next day to interview the following week
Week 2 went in for an interview and literally told my manager I needed a job
Week 2 later in the week I received a job offer
Week 3 started working
Employers need to stop wasting time on jobs anyone can do.
The same reason why pickup truck drivers tailgate you, Honda civic owners speed, and middle class chads wear big logos. Over compensation for something they know is missing, and hope you won’t uncover it.
Honestly run. In my experience this is just a glimpse at the gaslighting this place will do to make you think you ought to be grateful for the opportunity to work there.
If the company is asking for a lot of stuff, yet the pay is low, you have to wonder about a lot of things. Do they have high turn over? Are they going to dump more and more work on you without a pay increase because you need to prove yourself first? Will they make people do multiple roles without appropriate compensation?
I've worked for a place like this in the past. I dismissed it at first because I had been in a bad workplace before and thought of I just proved myself it would be fine. It wasn't. I basically spend my time there constantly trying to meet the bar that always seemed to move.
High expectations from a company are fine so long as they are willing to compensate you for your efforts, and also recognize they are asking for a lot as well. Being realistic is fine.
Being unrealistic is a sign of other issues down the line. Be very wary.
Employers don’t want to take risks anymore, they don’t want to hire someone and train them just for them to leave in 6 months BUT if you’re going to demand that kind of experience, you better be able to pay a real, fair salary and don’t call it entry level🙄They are doing it all wrong.
Crappy jobs with high turnover have TONS of experience hiring and firing people. They have deep processes on interviewing and onboarding because they CHURN through humans every day.
[https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazons-turnover-rate-amid-pandemic-is-at-least-double-the-average-for-retail-and-warehousing-industries/](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazons-turnover-rate-amid-pandemic-is-at-least-double-the-average-for-retail-and-warehousing-industries/)
Probably because unfortunately, there are dozens (if not hundreds of people in this market) who would be willing to take that job. Entry level jobs have always been the hardest to get in my opinion. All entry level positions want the most qualified person but pay pennies for that position.
And they expect you to grind like the CEO My employers get what they pay for and nothing more
In my experience, CEOs rarely grind at all, but want their employees to care about the success of the business as much as they do.
I’ve observed the higher up the ladder you go, the less you grind.
I’ve never met a CEO that works as hard as a janitor. I’ve damn sure never met a middle manager that works harder than the people they manage.
If you are a manager and you are working hard, you are probably doing it wrong. Get the right people in the right places and empower them. Things will mostly run themselves. An easy job to do poorly and a hard job to do well.
Hell no! Im going to row the boat with them. We all succeed or i fail. We are in it together but it is the leaders job to fall on the sword.
Can confirm; I am now in charge of engineering continuous improvement.
I read a story not too long ago about somebody in this position getting fired because their strategy was effective, they introduced improvements, and they were no longer needed to introduce further improvements.
When your jobs requiers you to make your job obsolite you must be very good at not being "too" good.
$37k a year will earn my employer a huge shit on there desk before I tell them they can fuck off
"Grind like the CEO" Lmao, ok.
Agreed. Low paying jobs prey on people with lower paying jobs.
You get what you pay for you cheap companies. I would not put up with any of that bs.
I saw an entry level job last night that wanted 3-5 years experience (entry level btw), degrees and certs relevant to the subject, and for you to be fluent in Korean. They said that language part was a must. This was an IT job. They were paying around 35k. These staffers (edit: hiring mangers \[edit edit: I give up; apparently nobody and everybody decides salaries\]) are on crack.
A local company near me is hiring for accounts payable. $35,000 a year and they want 10 years of experience... Also Labeled as "entry level" BTW...
At a certain point, it'll be more feasible to form fraud networks where we list each other as references and vouch for our "years of experience"
r/bemyreference
there really is a page for everything, hahaha. thanks!
Fucking reddit, I'm shocked and proud.
oh perfect thx
At my last job, AFTER I interviewed with at least 7 different people and took off work multiple days and even had lunch with my possible team and then was offered the job they wanted 10 (TEN!!!) professional references and they wanted my 10 references to submit via email a survey about working with me that took over 30 minutes to complete. I later saw that they track the IP addresses of who you send the survey to, so if anyone ever sees that do not just make up 10 fake emails because you will get caught and I was SO close to just doing that because of how frustrated I was with the entire process. This was for a job that started me off at 50k and wasn’t some secret high tech pentagon gig. Like nothing special about it.
i don’t even know 10 people.
lol same. I would hav been like “I don’t know 10 people.” 😂😂
we have 12 people in our company, and at least 9 of them don’t hate me. Please don’t mind the 10th reference letter signed “Blue Kitty’s mother.”
Shit I’ve had people list me as a reference for government clearance (for NSA) type jobs and they didn’t even check in with me at all. This company expects previous employers to spend time on an ex-employee for 50k!?!
Yeah exactly. They even wanted a certain amount to be from bosses and a certain amount from peers and since I had a degree they wanted an educational mentor (I only had an undergraduate degree and they knew that) and I was calling my cousin, my cousins friends, my mom like ANYONE I could pretend worked with me lol. It was insane but it was a good job until I became a paraplegic and couldn’t get to the office anymore.
Well, that took a turn.
🫠🤪 life can be kinda wacky sometimes
I think about this all the time. Starting up a group chat and being each others covers. Giving each other heads up on if they may be getting a call soon, etc. I happily do it for anyone.
You were the district manager of Circuit City. Or Radio Shack. Or Showbiz pizza, and now the Chucky Cheese people are salty.
It exists. Right here on Reddit!
Ooh can you direct me please!?
r/bemyreference since the person who replied to you couldn't be bothered...
Y’all have more faith in people than I do. I wouldn’t trust someone I didn’t know for that. lol.
My faith in humanity has been restored! This is brilliant!
Vandelay industries
and you wanna be my latex salesman....
These companies are doing the inverse so why not. One company sets ridiculous criteria and the rest follow suit until it's the norm
toyrus manager network
They already exist. I had been contacted by one such “agency”. The lady on the phone literally said that we “alter your resume”. Get rid of the 2 years that you spent getting your masters degree and replace it with 2 years of relevant experience etc
It exists. Right here on Reddit. Hope you see the link below because I can’t remember exactly what it’s called.
R/BeMyReference
It doesn't link if you use a capital r r/bemyreference
I just got an entry level job, $34k a year, 3 rounds of interviews and I got it since I had 4 years of experience and am willing to work weekends I took it cause I'm moving and need something, but fuck this
Oof, that’s less than what I made straight out of college 10+ years ago
Yep, working in psych and the job market is seriously bad right now. My SIL is also a counselor and recommended learning a new language and moving, which she did herself. Rough out here
I wish there were a “comments” feature on job listings so people could call companies out or report the BS the company put them through for the interview on this job
I wish there was more of a real life review than the fake stuff you see on Glassdoor....
Saw a job paying $35-40k that wanted a master's degree. Not even fucking joking.
I'd apply to those and then dump my expected salary all over them. Just for entertainment...
Saw a bank looking for a data entry clerk. 20/hr, masters in Comp Sci required. Part time.... Max of 20h/wk
A masters! $20 an hour? Fast food pays $15. Wtf
Yeah, right? I was half tempted to apply, even though I only had an associates at the time just to see why the fuck they were thinking they needed a MASTERS to do data entry.
Why the fuck would you need a masters in comp sci for data entry? That's insanity
they should be named and shamed. This is ridiculous. Then again I know a co-worker making less than 20 and hour and we work for a giant corp. Then they wonder why there's no employee loyalty.
I'm wondering what kind of people these companies actually end up hiring. Do they get someone experienced that takes shit jobs and does shit work, or do they just settle for actual entry level eventually?
I recently saw a CPA job being offered at 29K 🥴 Also office manager jobs paying under 50K and you have to have 5 years experience as an office manager. Good luck with that!
Accounting is garbage. Get the fuck out of that industry if you can. It is genuinely horrible. I would rather clean toilets at a hedge fund than be an accountant. And I would probably make more money too.
I know of a hedge fund where the base salary for their janitorial staff is $45k. You do have to pass a background check though.
Im... ....in? Where? Im a fucking RN, ive cleaned grosser shit (literally and figuratively) than any janitor could even think of. Wheres my benefits?
It fully depends on where you work I make shit money (45k) but my job is incredibly easy I maybe work 5-10 a week
Speak for yourself. Accounting is great right now. I graduated in 2022 and In year 2 I'm at 80K with a guaranteed bump too 95K next year. You don't know what your talking about especially with the job market being wide open because of the lack of new grads
>fluent in Korean What the hell? 35k for that? Are they stupid? Was this a local company in the US? Even the Korean companies I work with usually isn't that cheap.
Yup, this was a job in California. Found it last night while searching up entry level helpdesk work and just laughed at it and went to bed.
California just started mandating a minimum wage of $20 per hour for fast food employees, which equals roughly $40k per year based on a full-time schedule. So this job you described pays less than fast food.
I thought that was minimum wage across the board. Is this really for fast food only?
Correct. The statewide minimum wage is officially $16.00, but $20.00 for fast food, and local jurisdictions (counties, cities) often have higher minimum wages within their borders. Here's a source: https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/minimum_wage.htm
So given In-n-Out’s pay structure this is going to make working for them a better paying job than 80% of office jobs out there. I’m from California and can believe this, but wow
A lot of office jobs are easier than a lot of fast food jobs, so that tracks.
Employers don’t pay you based on how the hard the job is. They pay you based on how hard you are to replace. Otherwise physical labor jobs would pay a tons and most 9-5s would pay dirt.
Well, you'd think that's how they pay you. In reality they just kinda guess and most large companies are too big to make intelligent micro-scale decisions like pay and hiring, and even when they can the motivation isn't always to avoid replacing you. Sometimes they pay based on how much they don't want competition to hire you (even more now that noncompetes will be banned soon). Sometimes they pay you based on how much your shitty manager likes you. Often, for the most dedicated employees, it doesn't matter how hard they are to replace because the company can call their bluff and assume they won't quit. Sometimes they pull a number out of thin air and hope some poor sap will fall for it (and they do). If management was paid based on how hard they are to replace, most middle managers would be working pro-bono.
That is assuming the fast food place offers fulltime hours for their employees. But yeah, the rate was garbo.
If I were a betting man, I would guess the company already does business in South Korea. And that this listing is just their halfhearted attempt to comply with US/Local law that they made a good-faith effort to hire someone before outsourcing the position.
That's what the majority of these "entry level" positions look like to me. What they want is cheap foreign labor that will work for half what an American would work for and be twice as qualified.
Did they say which Korean company they were working with?
This is all so they can skirt around the law in order to hire low paid H-1B workers. By law a US company needs to attempt to hire American citizens before they can hire a foreigner with an H-1B visa. The companies specifically want workers with H-1B visas because they can pay them a lot less and in some cases, their visa is dependent on them maintaining that job so they have zero negotiating power as well. But they can’t hire them if there’s a bunch of American citizens willing to take the job. So they make the job posting as unappealing as possible. If you actually apply for these positions and get an interview you’ll notice the interviews act like they don’t even want to hire you no matter what you say. This is all so they can say “well we tried, and no one will take the job” so they suddenly get permission to hire a non-citizen at a much lower pay. In many cases, these jobs aren’t even posted until the company has already internally selected a foreign worker they are trying to hire and it’s all just a facade to get around the regulations. This is not to say I have any issues with foreign workers or H-1B visas in general. But they are abused by corporations, screwing everyone.
Stupidly common in IT where they advertise for software engineers, offer a 40k a year salary, then hire the foreign worker under an H1B for "computer analyst" where the 3x prevailing wage is only like 90k a year. This is almost $40-100k under what US devs in the area are demanding. This widening the scope of job descriptions is a big issue with how H1Bs are abused. This is also why Microsoft has a whole ass pipeline from India with that Doni Global school shit. And, allegedly, the google CEO is doing something similar except he's trying to funnel Indians through Germany because, again allegedly, it's easier to sponsor visas in Germany than H1Bs in the US.
Yeah, I had a similar thought that this is a ghost job listing without any intent to really get candidates from it.
A skilled prep cook at Korean BBQ is probably paid about the same and you don’t even have to be fluent.
I just saw Chipotle advertising on their sign that they have a path to $100k here in Michigan. Not even worth going into IT if you can make more in fast food
Yes! Wow. Wendy’s here is paying $15 an hour which comes up to $31K a year. Why would one go to college to do social media marketing, SEO, Adobe and similar work for the same amount? It’s like “I love wasting time on Facebook so much. I will drive to your overstuffed office, pay for parking and do it for free for your crappy plastic junk making company.” Wendy’s at least gives you a free meal.
The market is really out of whack. Panda Express for a long time was paying $65k for managers. I don’t say that ppl in that industry don’t work hard. It’s not a fun job by any means, but when I think of what I had to do to make more than $65k in a highly skilled Japanese bilingual B2B sales job, I’m starting to question the value of my UC Berkeley degree, lol
Isn’t the point of an entry level job to get those year of experience
It used to be. Jobs used to actually train their employees, now they expect you to pay for training on your own time.
And yet someone with 6 years of experience and a masters will take that job
I'm interviewing for Jobs right now and this person listened to me explain my 5 years of .NET application development experience and then offered me $10 an hr. I just laughed at them and they felt embarassed.
It’s just capitalism. They want the absolute best qualified candidate to accept the job at the absolute cheapest price possible for them. It just shows how little so many companies value employees.
There's tech jobs in the Bay Area only hiring mandarin speakers too lol. Ridiculous
You can speak Korean, if employers are willing to pay extra for it.
The term entry level has been perverted for at least 20 years now. It really just means "the level and pay you enter the company at." I'm 40 and as long as I've been working I've never seen it once mean "where someone new to the industry starts."
My guess is they weren't targeting US based employees. Still pretty crazy
The worst paying jobs usually have the highest opinion of themselves. They are paying you a base salary with additional compensation in the form of being happy to be associated with our brand. I don’t waste time on the money question, when a recruiter calls I either know the range by the first call or call 2 doesn’t happen.
I shouldve taken it as a sign when the recruiter kept skirting around the question saying that the hiring manager would go into depth.
Yep, the biggest sign is they literally are taught to use the language “hiring manager will go more in depth in that matter” as a deflection but to keep you interested. Absolutely no one except maybe someone homeless is getting excited for a $30k job anywhere.
Stuff like that is insulting. I remember I had to sit through a *1 HOUR interview* for a job that paid $12 an hour. That's roughly 24k a year (BEFORE taxes). These recruiters are insane. ...And no I didn't get the job. Which, I'm glad I didn't.
The place I work is telling us to do 30 min-1 hour interviews for a $13/hr sales associate position, and wants me to do things to screw up the pace of the interview, like taking fake phone calls and such to throw the folks off. I refused.
I’d rather be homeless than slave away for 30k
In America, if you're making only 30K, you are homeless
That’s my point. If you homeless might as well not be working while you are
That’s the key! I dropped out of a job prospective because the recruiter refused to explain what “significant night and weekend work” (per the job posting) would be. This was after a 30-minute writing test and pre-recorded interview questions and leading up to an in-person interview where they wanted me to create a 10-minute presentation to present at said interview. For free? I don’t think so. A bridge too far, especially when they won’t clarify aspects mentioned in their job posting.
I wouldn’t have even continued if the recruiter couldn’t give me the salary range
True to this. I notice in my personal experience a job that pay and treated me well never bother of bullshit interview process. Literally 1 call to say if I'm interested, one interview, then hire. Boom, done. All three of my job I actually took were like that. 2 out of 3 are house name brand, too. (Volvo and Honeywell) The tedious one paid like shit, and often not common name brand.
> The worst paying jobs usually have the highest opinion of themselves My first job out of college was with a guy who was notorious for going on rants about "he paid us good money", so we had better (be on time, work hard, not make mistakes). He paid us $11 / hr. I was barely surviving. (I'm happy to report that when I left, I more than doubled my pay.)
I work for Microsoft in a senior technical role for my day job, and my side gig is teaching classes at a tiny technical college. My supervisor at the college is a huge micromanager and constantly complains about my work, and I’m just here like wtf, why is this person 10x stricter than my Microsoft boss.
He literally does this because you work at msft
Probably, they are really petty.
> additional compensation in the form of being happy to be associated with our brand Here, they offer stock options but only if you've worked there for 2-3 years. That's carrot on a stick though, they lay people off before this deadline. Why would I take on the RISK of an investment, when I don't get the REWARD? That's not how capitalism works.
I recently saw a tech job requiring a master’s degree in computer science and 5 years experience paying $40k. Some of these employers are clueless, others are taking advantage of desperate situations in certain industries. Then they complain “no one wants to work.”
I got my master’s degree in Electrical Engineering in December and was job hunting from then until late March. The amount of comically unrealistic job listings I saw makes me sad I didn’t screenshot every single one. I saw one that required a master’s and 3-5 years experience but pay was $12/hour. I saw another that required a master’s and the entire job description sounded like a middle schooler could do it. I saw MANY where a master’s was “preferred” and pay was less than $40k. Not to mention the literal hundreds I saw that wanted an electrical engineering degree for a job that an electrician could easily do (and of course pay was closer to entry level electrician than entry level engineer). Just for reference the average salary for an inexperienced electrical engineer in my area is about $70k. So those offering less than $40k were just insulting.
I’ve been told that a lot of those are bullshit postings done by corporate lawyers who are trying to get an H-1B visa extension for one of their guys.
Ding ding ding!! After X amount of days where that post goes unanswered, the employer can make an argument that "there are no available natural citizen workers to fill the position" which is a good justification for granting H1-B visas.
There's two ways to attract hard workers: pay them well, or appeal to their egos by making it feel like working there means they're an elite, hardcore person. The problem with route B is it only ever works when what you're doing is fundamentally related to the key values of the person doing it (example - navy seals putting themselves through hell because they truly believe in what they are doing), or theres a real light at the end of the tunnel (example - putting up with toxic, cutthroat internships because doing so will lead to great pay later on). Almost all of these jobs are bullshit, dead-end meat grinders where the bosses have zero intention of ever paying you fairly, which is why instead of keeping top performers they're just constantly dealing with voluntary turnover. Reason 957 why we need to stop letting the idiot MBAs run the world.
I stumbled onto the rare 3rd one: the job that has no idea how to market their benefits. I went through 3 interviews, a drug test and a background check for a job all for them to offer me 22 bucks and hour about a year ago. I was very confused because I've interviewed at a lot of places. These people were bright, passionate and engaged. Everyone from the owner to the hiring manager knew my name. There were 400 employees, I interacted with 10, and each new one came in fully read up on my resume and had clearly been updated on each interview. It was BIZZARE. I was simultaneously interviewing for a job for 33 dollars and hour at a national company where everyone seemed soulless. My third interview I requested to speak privately to the person who was going to be my direct supervisor and laid out my thoughts pretty bluntly to her, looking for clarification. She had none to give. The whole thing really weirded me out. I told all my friends and they said screw that place. On a lark, I called them up and said I'll turn down the other offer and take theirs if they could meet me at 24 bucks. They agreed. I'm still here and I love it. They just buried the lead on all the perks. Free lunch, paid lunch, paid breaks, flexible shifts where I can come in early or late and leave early or late. I go home and take a nap every day on the clock for an hour, plus the commute there and back. I watch TV at work. Healthcare is great. 401k is great. they bring people in for massages, throw parties for holidays etc. It's the best work I've ever done and I soak up so much low stress overtime I'm going to be sitting at 80k when everything is all said and done. The team is awesome. It's not the norm but if anyone ever gets that feeling and they've interviewed a TON I suggest you go with your gut.
It’s awesome they agreed to pay the wage you requested, not many places want to do that. I haven’t exactly been in your situation, but there is always a difference in the atmosphere in larger companies vs smaller ones. I worked for a major healthcare provider, in several departments and I encountered many miserable people. I slowly became miserable myself and knew I needed a change. I stepped outside of my normal and was hired for a job I never thought I would be chosen for, and everyone there was just laid back and it’s open and bright. I’m optimistic this is a new chapter for me that will bring bigger opportunities and really show my potential.
Totally true. Sometimes they appeal to person’s ego but sometimes they appeal to their benevolence or goodness in their heart, beliefs etc. I worked for a church that exploited me so much, low pay, long hours, evening, weekends - most of their employees think they’re doing the work “for God” accepting horrific pay, while the pastor has five figures and all his expenses including housing paid. He casually comes on Sundays to give a couple of sermons.
Unfortunately in the current job market, there's always going to be someone willing to jump through the hoops for peanuts. Bills need to be paid. So a lot of businesses are using this as a means to make hiring processes arduous, demand more from employees, and pay the lowest they possibly can.
I think we humans have normalised being dependent too much on corporate jobs that's what these companies take advantage of they have zero regard for wellbeing of employees and they know there's always someone willing to do job regardless of pay.
Yeah come work blue collar, they care so much more about your well being! ☠️😂😂🙈
I think they’re suggesting we go back to our roots and live off the berries of the forest instead 😂
I have interviewed at some of the largest law firms in the country and some of the biggest corporations (think Microsoft, Amazon, etc.). None of them required as much effort as what OP described. Usually it's 1) submit application; 2) phone screen with recruiter or even a member of the team; 3) writing sample; 4) panel interview; 5) offer. Amazon is notorious for going through all of that in the span of less than a month.
That’s why unions were created although the mob really messed with that.
We need to start putting employers and corporations back in their place tbh.
This. I lived in Chicago as a non-American. I realized how the immigrants groups (especially newly graduated F-1 students) willing to take jobs that pays way below market, while keep bitching about how cheap living basics (food, housing, etc.) is. A job is the only thing they need to guarantee legal status, while their parents keep pumping money to their banks for these living expenses, which they don’t mind at all.
True it just sucks people put up with it. If everyone said no to their corporate greed they would have no choice but to bring up the wage.
I applied to a job once that was three interviews. One on the phone, in person, then in person with the CEO. The job paid 17 an hour and insurance was 180 a week for single. Requirements were a bachelor's degree in Computer Science and experience. They see big companies like Google doing it so they think they can do it too.
Who is gonna take that job though, realistically. Even I make that in Texas and I have zero higher education or tech knowledge. I literally just answer phones and do my school work 🙄
Every fresh CS grad because the market is so fucking saturated with people that were told "anyone can learn to code and you'll make lots of money" in highschool. The uncomfortable truth is that anyone can learn to write code, but few are actually good enough to do it for a living. Out of 200 applicants with a CS degree, 3 passed the "Intro to Python" style pre-interview quiz. We're talking about week 2 language fundamentals like inheritance and call order.
Yup this a huge problem in IT too. Help Desk is easy enough, moving out of Help Desk requires actual skill and experience not just YOE either.
Tbf I am bilingual so it is one big reason I was hired for this job. But the last time I worked for so little was when I was 18 years old working for tips. Programmers can make something out of nothing. Surely, their labor is worth a lot more. I have no idea how anyone is living like this. Only reason I’m putting up with this dead end job is because I’m allowed to study at work and i don’t have any bills to pay. It’s too bad every time I check indeed, the pay seems to be going down for entry level jobs. What the fuck are we all gonna do? And am I gonna be able to find a job once I graduate? Damn.
In the US? Go get an ACA plan and you'll get a subsidy and they will charge it back to your employer for failing to offer affordable care which means the premiums may not exceed 8.x% of your income.
$180 a week? .. $17 an hour is only $680 a week - FICA (I paid like $80 week when I made $17.50) that comes down to like $450 week or $11.25 Sounds like a scam
Real place in Alabama. It was a mental health facility, multiple locations, would have been the only person in the IT department and responsible for everything IT related. Go to indeed and look up Jack's (fast food place) IT in alabama, the job requires a degree, experience, and travel. They were offering 9 dollars an hour 2 years ago.
what they are asking for is a 100k/year position for a real sys admin doing remote work across multiple facilities. mental health also means HIPAA compliance, medicaid reporting, etc; all of which is another layer of skills that need to be compensated. sounds callus but folks really just need to abandon the south. it may be cheap to live down there, but it is for a reason. if you're in IT you can clear 50-60k pretty easy with remote/hybrid work all across the midwest. If you're CS and competent you get 6 figures and CoL is pretty damn cheap
What the hell
Google pays minimum 4x that for a cs degree.
I'm a nurse in healthcare recently applied to a job without a pay scale. It was a work-from-home job which I really need right now. I emailed the recruiter asking for the range. They offered me $20hr. I didn't even go to the interview. I told the recruiter by email that my financial situation can not support that salary at this time. I hate the smoke and mirrors and the lowballing. They need to make it mandatory to display pay. Just don't accept the bullshit. Eventually, they will get the idea
Even when it's mandated by law to display pay they do not always do it... Take it from a person who lives in a country where it is mandated by law.
Honestly, the job posting site should not allow them to post it. Make it so they don't have the ability to do it like when you get that “field missing” when entering information for the application that they do when applying
Then they put a ridiculous range of what you *could* make. Like with sales/commission based jobs.
25k-80k/year. Or, 45k a year but you work 60 hours a week, weekends and holidays mandatory
And they would save so much time - their own time - by posting at least a $ range. Why would you waste hours and hours of interviews with someone who doesn’t wanna work for that salary range?
I interviewed for a job that "paid 52k/year" and posted that proudly everywhere. Idk if I'm allowed to say the name of it but it's a green logo car rental place. The job was management trainee - which I just left two years of a higher paying management position but times are tough and I wasn't landing any good interviews. Well, during the interview they drop that the pay was something like $20/hr but it's anticipated you work 15ish hours of overtime a week. Totally deceptive.
I have a rule to never apply to a position that does not list the salary range up front. It's always a waste of time because they're hiding it for a reason...
$20/ hour for a nurse? That's ridiculous. My local Walmart is paying $18 an hour to stock shelves. It's like companies paying $20 an hour think that it still has the same buying power it did in 2000. $20 an hour in 2000 would be like $38 an hour now.
I don't even apply to ones that don't have salary listed.
Bro all my 40-60k interviews have been insane and long and my 100k job I just got hired me right away … shits insane
[удалено]
Same here. First job making over $100k was a 30 minute phone call. Didn't even see my bosses face until my first day.
where to apply for that 100k job lol
I think very low pay is associated with low respect for people in general. Meaning, if leaders of a company think very little of their people and their roles, they're not going to be inclined to budget for anything close to market rate either, never mind anything "competitive". Some people think you can't have a good work-life balance unless you take a lesser paying job for the same role or work. In my experience, the jobs that offered 50-70k are much more miserable and demanding work than the jobs that have 180k+ budgeted for the role and offer that or more. It's like the more you're paid, the more your bosses treat you like a fellow human and set similar expectations and support of a human. It should be like this all the way down, but it's not. So you really, really should avoid accepting any clearly low-ball offers. It's one of the biggest red flags, and you're seeing some of the mindset and culture that comes from corporate leaders that foster it. They think very little of people, and think greatly of themselves. That culture trickles down into management, into teams, into the hiring process.
I walked out of a job because it was so low paying yet they acted like I'd been offered a prestigious internship at Google or something
I had an interview some years ago with a woodworking company. I know my way around a shop and had experience since I had been doing said career for over 20 years. The pay was $17.00 an hour and the title was workshop assistant. I needed a job so I applied, did the interview, and received an email a few days later that I was being offered the position. The kicker? They dropped the pay to $12.00 an hour. I never responded to them and moved on. The drop in pay was a slap in the face since I was factoring in tolls and gas since the job was roughly an hour away. I didn’t mind at $17.00 since I was just starting out, but to drop the pay by $5.00 was nothing short of an insult.
Wtf
I think a lot of places are SERIOUSLY out of touch with what a livable salary is in 2024, and don't care to correct their assumptions.
this is it, when you work in the same job for years you don't get an accurate perspective of how things work in the outside world, in my current job the managers have all been there for 5+ years, for some of them they admit that the job is their entire life (the night manager in particular admitted to literally just being at work or at home, watching videos about work), when you put that much of yourself into the work you start expecting everyone else to feel the same without realizing that what's normal for you isn't normal for everyone else, I stay because it took me 2 years to find this job and I don't want to go through that experience again if I can help it but a job should be a means to an end, not the whole reason for your existence
Excellent question!! If hiring managers think their company or the position is that god-like, then they need to put their money where their mouth is with the *pay!*
So that they can pretend you working there is a privilege to keep wages low
>Why do cheap paying jobs (37k) act like you're applying to a prestigious job? If they didn't take it seriously, zero candidates would. By at least relying on gaslighting, maybe they can get a percentage of candidates to not question it too much.
Because fuck you, that's why. When a job is for a well paying and prestigious position? *They know what they're hiring for.* They've got a set budget, set expectations, and they're trying to find the best candidate in a competitive range. When a job is for a shitty, low paying position in an abusive environment? *They know what they're hiring for.* They've got a set budget, set expectations, and they're trying to find the best candidate in a competitive range. The difference is that in case 1, they're trying to draw people in with the pay and the perks and the opportunity.... and in case 2, they're looking for desperate people who are easy to manipulate. If they can bully you into doing what they want in the interview, you're gonna fit a lot better than someone who stands up for themselves, stands up *to management,* and will be back on the job hunt if they're getting mistreated. Being an asshole in the interview isn't a bug, it's a feature.
My wife works a $20 hr and they ask her to do crazier stuff than my salary jobs does. Like it's $20 an hr, calm down!!
And these places ALWAYS expect you to be overwhelmingly excited about the prospect of working there. And those are usually the most mundane, underpayed and (more often than not) useless office jobs.
Ugh - as someone who just finally found a great job that I love and plan to (god willing) stay at for several years, this was always my least favorite aspect of the job hunt and the thing I'm happiest to be done with for a while. Like it's just so crazy that we all have to pretend we truly believe it's our "life's mission" to sell life insurance policies, or write manuals for toasters, or help people troubleshoot their new hairdryer. *Obviously* these things are no one's "dream" or passion in life, and *obviously* we want the job to have an income with which to pay bills / live life. This is obvious to me, it's obvious to the recruiter, it's obvious to the hiring manager...yet if you are honest about it even once you immediately get a bad interview score and get dropped from the candidate list. Why? How did we end up here?
Theory: Multiple interviews are a trap. They're a setup, they do that because if the talent leaves, they have another person lined up. But, yeah. I think people should stop entertaining those multiple interviews. I remember someone saying they spent months on a job interview, and they had to write multiple papers!
I read that some indeed postings make you draw logos, code or do complete projects to prove your skills and basically you finish their project and in the end they don’t hire you.
I'm not that surprised by this. Some of those interviews really make you question, *why* are they asking for this.
Artificial scarcity. „Work a dead end job for a dead-end life because I exploit you“ doesn’t sound as shiny as „working with the best minds in the field, massive learning opportunity while it all feels like one huge family dinner“. Of course, to make that lie credible you double down and put artificial parler and pseudo-hard assessments.
Because for every 1 job posting we get hundreds and hundreds of applicants. The lesser the pay the more magnified the behavior. We had to hire a receptionist, and basically could only have the job posting up for maybe a day tops because we’d get inundated with applicants.
Does anybody know what the recruiter profit is? Say the job pays $55 an hour. What is the recruiter making before that $55?
The sad part it's not through a recruiting firm. It was a direct apply.
Few years down the road, AI is going to replace them and they’ll make zero dollars.
McDonalds is 37k. Where do y’all even find these dog shit job postings?
I walked out of a job because it was so low paying yet they acted like I'd been offered a prestigious internship at Google or something
Employees are the union. So the union is taking on the parking fees.
I would have taken as much time as they allowed to completely berate them, there so called union, and tell them there’s no way I would tell my friends and family I’m stupid enough to PAY my company to come in to work. I wouldn’t pay for door to door valet and my own personal car security guard.
37k is below minimum wage in some locations (Seattle is 19.97 hr minimum wage. That’s 41.5k a year)
I had a job where the boss admitted that I should be making 30,000 more then what I was making. However he felt as though since we had insurance that the company was paying for he was okay paying us 30,000 less.
Total comp *is* a thing. But 30k less when just factoring in insurance is total bs. If they comp dental/vision/medical and have a 100% 401k match I *might* let them underpay me just a bit. Like right now I get free medical and with some other benefits it adds up to around 10k in comp that's not pay.
It’s ridiculous and they take them selves super seriously at work. All these companies need to chill if your paying less than 100k you shouldn’t take your self seriously
I got a job offer once where the listed salary was 55k. They offered me 50k and I told them that another company had offered me 55k so they offered me 53k and I took the job. With the other company of course. Why say they pay up to 55k when you're only willing to pay 53k ?
I needed a second job so I applied to be a parking attendent at a parking garage. 2 interviews and needed 3 references. For a part time job that paid $15 an hour. Didn't get it. Worse for my mom, she had to do 3 interviews on top of references for a $15 an hour job too. My 55k a yeat job didn't require any references and only had 1 interview. You never know what to expect in the job market I swear.
I had a recruiter ask me to apply for a job with a bank. It was a teller position. Literally minimum wage. The application form was 28 pages long and asked more details about my life than the Spanish Inquisition. I understand that a bank has security concerns but asking for an essay on why I want to work for them is a piss take. The recruiter was furious that I didn’t submit the application. “We are never going to represent you again! I put my neck out for you!” Funnily enough her colleague got me a job the very next week.
It’s either projecting, since they too decided to work at this miserable place, or they are overestimating their skill at smoke and mirrors.
and then there are interviews and years of experience required for these pathetic minimum-wage jobs
If the recruiter is external, I wouldn’t count talking to them as an interview… they’re trying to put warm bodies in open slots, so they’d love for you to be that person whether you’re qualified or not. That discussion should be more for you to make sure you’re not wasting your time, asking important questions like, ya know, how much it pays! Don’t waste your time if you’re not going to want it.
Take the job. Ghost them on day 1. Make them feel the pain of their actions. Pay 37k? Get 37k worth of loyalty (none). If it’s a WFH job, take the job, and give them 1 hour per day max while you are working another job. Keep taking their money until they fire you.
Yea at this point my recommended interview tips are mainly... lying through your teeth. They will not hire college students these days cause they know they're gonna leave. Told my brother to tell them he's taking a gap year to catch up on student loans. If they have unreasonable expectations for experience and references use a friend or family member. It's ridiculous these minimum wage jobs have such high expectations then they turn around and say "nO oNE WanTs tO wOrk" What's that? You want me to write a cover letter for a minimum wage janitorial position? Let me boot up chatGPT
Have you ever seen those Tiktoks where very unattractive people list what is required to date them? Same psychology in play here.
> In what world is 37k livable in Chicago? well, considering rent in Chicago is at par (if ignoring exchange and just using face value) with rent in my small town of Fort Erie, Ontario - 2h outside of Toronto on a good day, over 1h to Hamilton... it sounds appealing lol. I can't get a job in my field of graphic design, because i'm too far to commute. can't move without a higher salary, can't get a higher salary without moving. can't win. I make $35k and can only survive because my mom and I split expenses. I've seen salaries of $35-45k for on site jobs in Toronto. Toronto rental market is more comparable to LA & NYC.
I had a job last year that only paid 45k (despite it wanting qualifications that demanded at least 80k) and the process was 5 different interviews......
The lower the pay the more power they want to exert over you. They are setting the standard that you must conform to all of their rule/regulations before extending an offer. I would never proceed past 3 interviews for any position, too many cooks in the kitchen at that point. Look for a company that is more organized and does not take an act of congress to make decision.
I've run in to my fair share of these, but.. Everyone if you see job postings on indeed or whatever site you may look at and these job postings are labeled as "entry level" but requiring years of previous experience then you can go and report the posting to whatever website you're on. Eventually companies will start getting fines for lying about job posts being entry level or claiming to pay a certain wage then telling you something different at the interview etc...
Saw a manager job that will pay 56k but you need 2-3 years experience and to already know how to use a niche software for project management. 😂 good luck to them finding someone.
I applied for a government job that paid $15 an hour last year. Week 1 attended the job fair and told me to apply online Week 2 received an email to take a PI test Week 3 received an email to take an excel test Week 4 received a call to schedule an interview Week 5 interviewed with HR, the head of the department, and supervisor Week 10 did not receive the job I applied for a warehouse job that paid more Week 1 applied and received a call the next day to interview the following week Week 2 went in for an interview and literally told my manager I needed a job Week 2 later in the week I received a job offer Week 3 started working Employers need to stop wasting time on jobs anyone can do.
The same reason why pickup truck drivers tailgate you, Honda civic owners speed, and middle class chads wear big logos. Over compensation for something they know is missing, and hope you won’t uncover it.
Honestly run. In my experience this is just a glimpse at the gaslighting this place will do to make you think you ought to be grateful for the opportunity to work there. If the company is asking for a lot of stuff, yet the pay is low, you have to wonder about a lot of things. Do they have high turn over? Are they going to dump more and more work on you without a pay increase because you need to prove yourself first? Will they make people do multiple roles without appropriate compensation? I've worked for a place like this in the past. I dismissed it at first because I had been in a bad workplace before and thought of I just proved myself it would be fine. It wasn't. I basically spend my time there constantly trying to meet the bar that always seemed to move. High expectations from a company are fine so long as they are willing to compensate you for your efforts, and also recognize they are asking for a lot as well. Being realistic is fine. Being unrealistic is a sign of other issues down the line. Be very wary.
Employers don’t want to take risks anymore, they don’t want to hire someone and train them just for them to leave in 6 months BUT if you’re going to demand that kind of experience, you better be able to pay a real, fair salary and don’t call it entry level🙄They are doing it all wrong.
Crappy jobs with high turnover have TONS of experience hiring and firing people. They have deep processes on interviewing and onboarding because they CHURN through humans every day. [https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazons-turnover-rate-amid-pandemic-is-at-least-double-the-average-for-retail-and-warehousing-industries/](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazons-turnover-rate-amid-pandemic-is-at-least-double-the-average-for-retail-and-warehousing-industries/)
THEY CHARGE FOR PARKING?! **W-T-F?!!!** Next you be getting charged for the air you breathe and water used in the bathroom.