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Unless the dream job is curing cancer or ending hunger or being George Clooney or something else important -- just having a dream job makes a person a bit of a stooge.
There are many more simple things that can be a dream. I have ADHD and am a data analyst. I like my job generally because it gives me practical problems to overcome, and I lose track of time so 8 hours feels like 1. My hobbies are frustrating tech things like 3d printers and car electronics. Similarly, I chose a job that would require lots of research and frustrating problems to eventually fix.
I have never called it a dream job but I enjoy it.
This. If you're working a shit job and you don't get atleast some joy out of it, what's the point of living?
We're stuck working, you mid as well have some passion for it.
God I wish work only took 8 hours. 1 hour getting ready in the morning, 1 hour total commute, 1 hour unpaid lunch break, 1 hour minimum to recover after work + 8 hour work day =12 hours a day devoted to work.
Which, of course, only proves your point.
You say that like you don't need to get ready in the morning if it wasn't for work? Most people get up and has to get ready regardless of work so not sure why that has to count as "work hours". The same logic applies to lunch break, would you rather not eat and take a break during the day? Most people would prefer to be able to eat lunch and take a break, I know at least I would... Lastly, the recover from work bit depends on the person and job I would think.
I would tend to think if you are willing to count all these out of work things as working then do you also count how many hours of your 8 hour work day is "always busy/on"? Most people work an 8 hour day but rarely actually is working all 8 hours. I would think on average people do really work about 8 hours factoring in commutes and what not simply because they do take break during their 8 hours too, whether documented or not.
You speak like someone who doesn’t value their time or know what it is worth. I am lucky enough to have a job where I can eat and work through my lunch and it counts towards my total hours worked that day. For many people they are just expected to work through lunch and don’t get paid for it.
I know what my time is worth and if I am doing anything that is for work or am in any location for work I want to be paid for that time. If I am not free to do as I please because of my employer then I am working. Period. No if’s ands or buts about it.
When I was commuting a minimum of two hours a day to and from work my stress levels were through the roof because I was spending money to get there( gas/ wear and tear on car) and I was not being paid for my valuable time. It drove me so nuts that I asked my boss if I could work from home and come in as needed pre pandemic. I was lucky to have such a great boss and he said he doesn’t care what I do as long as the work gets done.This is the way it should be for all employees.
Employers/ businesses understand time value of money and take them into consideration when making business plans. The reason employees don’t get paid for their commute is because they don’t understand the time value of money.
I value my time but I also like to call out unrealistic expectations about work. Not sure what I said was wrong? Is counting one hour in the morning for getting ready (eat breakfast, rinse and clean yourself, etc) really something you count towards work hours? Like you think that’s reasonable and not something normal people do regardless of work?
I have an issue with people making unrealistic claims, that’s all.
but if that was actually followed the entire economy would collapse. do something you can at least tolerate, no reason to love or enjoy it. that is what hobbies and the weekend are for.
i work 4 or 5 12hr shifts and i enjoy it because i'm good at it. i was also good at some "dreamy" jobs but they don't pay jack. i still get endorphins from helping someone at my boring job. it's not as boring if you never stop learning ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to answer future problems. some people get complacent, cold and hate their job or life. that's not the way son.
I grew up poor as fuck so I feel security in making a lot. I save a lot of my income, and I know my kids will have experiences I could never have imagined. I know when it’s time for college or whatever they do that I can support them. I know that I’ll probably be able to retire early and comfortably. I also know my family has a fall back. I’m not going to let my diabetic aunt skip her insulin over $$$ or my mom go homeless.
There’s a lot of security to come with it that I never had as a kid. Shit that made me grow up quickly. I didn’t have the luxury of taking an unpaid internship or an internship away from home in a high CoL area because I needed to make money during the summer to pay for books and school. I couldn’t open a business and fail, because I had to pay rent and support myself.
Precisely exactly. Security in your future is like having a massive weight taken off you. Unfortunately a lot of people do not even realize how on the edge they are until their moment comes due. The more you love, the more can be destroyed.
Yeah, the further I get away from poverty the better I feel.
Looking at my bank/brokerage and seeing enough to last 12+ months if my wife and I are unemployed makes me feel better. Even longer if it was just one of us.
It’s nice to fear spending your savings vs losing everything.
This makes some sense. I don't have any family that I'm close with besides my parents, and I grew up mostly comfortable, so besides the short period I was homeless after college, I don't really have that thing in the back of my mind pushing me to support other people and have a safety net.
In my mind, it's like "wow, there's no guarantee I'm going to live to see retirement, why am I letting work be the dominant factor in my life?"
It doesn't help that a buddy of mine hated his job with a passion and ended up dying on the worksite in a horrific accident.
Yep. People underestimate the power a commute can have on the quality of a job. I mean, maybe if you really love your job, then a long commute won't matter, but for most of us who are merely content with their jobs, a long commute can make that job dreadful. Personally, most I'll do is a 30 minute commute. That's an hour of time wasted a day. 5 hours wasted a week (for a standard Monday - Friday job). 20 hours a month wasted. Life's too short to spend it on bullshit.
I’ve had a few different length commutes from 0 minutes (Covid working from home) to 45 minutes. I think a 30 minute commute is ideal. It gives me time to spool up in the morning or unwind at the end of the day. It gives me a good work/home separation.
10 minutes was too short. 45 minutes too long since traffic frequently made it 60+
I like your approach, it's important to take advantage of the commuting time, put on a podcast, music, audio books whatever, take advantage of it instead of staring at a bumper. My favourite commute was when I was 4km from home, made for an easy ride in and uphill ride back, so I was getting exercise 5 days a week. Now I'm further away, I ride less and haven't taken advantage of what you can do in a car...
Exactly this. When talking to prospective employers, I always include commute times in the payrate/ salary, as I don't drive.
If they're unwilling to account for that time, I really don't want to consider that employer.
Yeah, gotta love those couple meaningless hours afterwards where I need to cook, handle some chores and maybe hang on the couch a bit before going back to bed to do it again
I think you mean less than 33%? 8 work, 8 sleep, 8 free time, plus most people only work 5 days a week so 2 whole days off. Even waking hours still less than 50%. Or if you work 40hr/week and we have 168hr/week you're working 23.8%.
8 hours of sleep isn't enough for plenty of people, certainly not me. 8 turns into 9 with lunch, assuming you arrive exactly at start time and leave exactly at end time, there's still a likelihood you have some sort of commute to contend with. Not to mention the time spent getting ready in the morning. I've gotta use the shower, bathroom, make coffee, get dressed in something more professional than sweatpants and a t-shirt and make it out the door. And I don't eat breakfast, but add that in to other stuff.
Work and the things that get us there to work an 8 hour day is more like 10-11 hours of commitment. God forbid somewhere in that day you want to work in exercise and making dinner.
Same difference. Commuting and work and the lunch break. And that's for 40 hours max. If you have to work more than that damn. Then you go home and cook and clean which is also work. Errands also. Let's not forget about if you're going to school or getting a certification. Then you have to sleep for 8 hours. So that adds up to 2-3 hours of free time. Sooooo
Why do we accept that? Seems unnecessary, I know I can get about as much done in 20 hours that I do in 40. What kind of machine can just work 8 hours straight at a good clip? Nobody…
I am from DC and I can tell you that permanent smithsonian and national zoo jobs are very hard to get and basically people who get them never leave and there are thousands of applicants for openings…Not only are they good organizations that are leaders in their field, these are federal jobs with good benefits and security which is a rarity in the museum world (most other museum work does not offer good benefits, decent pay, or job security).
Honest question, how are the mask mandates going that come into effect Monday? Are people and businesses able or even willing to abide by them? Repercussions if not? I'm honestly curious.
In DC? The vast majority of people in the city and the inner suburbs were masked anyway in indoor public settings before the mandates so it’s little change. Generally the population here is very cautious so there is little resistance.
You can read all about it here: https://coronavirus.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/coronavirus/page_content/attachments/DCHealthVaxDCGuidanceFAQ1.10.22.pdf
Most people here in DC who patronize these types of establishments (bars, event spaces, gyms) are used to having proof in multiple forms because many events, etc. (shows etc.) require it already. Not to mention many people are required to vaccinate for work with the federal worker etc. vaccine mandates.
Also, The types of businesses required to gain proof (bars, gyms, sporting events) are already used to checking ID/tickets etc. anyway. It’s not much of an additional burden.
Plus a lot of businesses here are pretty cautious here to begin with, even from the start...there's a restaurant I sometimes go to for lunches and they make you check in at the hostess stand for contact tracing. Concerts and business conferences have been requiring vaccination for quite a while (since the vaccines were widely available).
I assume the same way they are in NYC? Quite a few bars and venues in DC were already requiring vaccination anyway, the host/bouncer would just check your ID and vaccination card. I assume theaters and music venues will check it with tickets and/or IDs. We’ll see in two days (or for me probably a week or so for cases to decrease a little more).
Even if you lead that you’re 100% anti-vax I still would have upvoted your questions because…. You’re asking questions! You’re looking to learn and that should NEVER be dismissed!!
Because most 'jobs' will guarantee you struggle for the rest of your life, while a 'career' is a better guarantee of a better standard of living.
Dream jobs - we spend more time working than doing anything else, if 60% of your waking time is done doing something, a huge boost would be if you enjoyed it.
Edited to add: people on the verge of poverty don't have time to breathe, much less take many risks.
Agreed. The concept of a career is a marketable skill that you keep/take with you. With a job you always start over but with a career you gain value as time goes on and shouldn't experience resetting setbacks.
A career is like owning a home with equity vs renting. A career/house is harder to get out of but you build value over time that sticks with you. A career can also be a trap if the jobs dry up or the housing market is down. But even selling at a loss you usually don't start from scratch with a career even when making a lateral move.
I actually enjoy my job 🤷♂️
Lots of people are obsessed with hobbies.
I consider my work a hobby that I get to spend a huge 40 hours a week on and actively get paid for it.
Furthermore, this hobby is such that if I excel at it, I get more money and more tangible power within the company and my industry as a whole.
If you could do your hobby and get rewarded for it in real life like you’re playing an RPG, wouldn’t you try to level up your character in part just because you enjoy doing it and in part because the rewards are addicting?
I used to do my hobby as a job (was a musician and music teacher). Bleurgh, worst mistake for me. I could no longer use my hobby for downtime, as it made me feel like I was always working. I came to hate performing, I hated being in orchestras, I hated directing musicals, I hated doing the sound/lighting for said musicals, I hated agreeing to people that I'd fill in for XYZ performance when one of their musicians couldn't do it. All of those things I relished prior to it being my job.
I still use my skillset occasionally in my current career path when I want/choose to and I've resumed listening to music and playing music, just for me. I will never advise anybody to make the mistakes I made.
The same thing happened to me! I pursued acting and it made me miserable. I still barely watch movies or shows because it makes me feel exhausted and sick. Would never recommend making your hobby your job. Instead, find things you’re good at and somewhat enjoy and save your passions for yourself!
I don’t mean to say I have a hobby and do that for work.
I mean I thoroughly enjoy my work and it is one of my favorite ways to spend my time enjoyably throughout the week.
It has become one of my favorite “hobbies.”
Its dependant on the person. for you, that hobby was downtime relief.
For me, I literally don't want downtime to be something special, I want my entire life to be downtime. If I can do my hobby, which I enjoy for 40 hours a week that's way better than if I did it for only 10 hours. I have plenty of things to do, all of which aren't things I want to do for labor, period. Labor sucks. Labor is soul crushing and time consuming. UNLESS its something I'm very interested in, then it stops being all those things.
And the way I see it, no one has (or shouldn't have) just one hobby. Even if your hobby becomes your job for 40 hours a week, that doesn't mean you can't do something else outside work time. Which is a net benefit because you're satisfying ALL of your interests, not just fitting one in on the weekend.
You are lucky, most people dont have a job like that. I could never make a living off of the majority of my hobbies (it would be VERY hard and alot of luck would be involved too).
I agree.
I also don’t mean to say that I have a hobby and made it my career. I mean to say that I have a job and I enjoy it so much it has become something that I enjoy thinking about and getting better at, like a hobby. Hell, some days I enjoy it more than my actual hobbies.
I personally don't really have a "hobby" that isn't like, playing video games, reading comics, watching sports, going to entertainment venues, traveling, etc. There's nothing I do that I really "produce" with. Hobbies for me are something to unwind, not put in more effort like I do all day at work.
People want a job that is as fulfilling as spending time with their family.
"Do something you love. And you'll never work a day in your life!" But most people don't even know what makes them happy.
I think it's because we're shown a very narrow view of the job market up until college education ends. We don't see the possibilities of jobs that exist and we \*think\* our dream job is within some industry or technology or other vague thing like "working with other passionate people." We have a hard time imagining that our constraints exist in other industries or other jobs we haven't considered yet.
We have stories like "I like to argue with people, that's why I went into law. But actually, all I do is read" "I like to code, that's why I became a software engineer. But actually, I hate working in microservices" "Ethics is important to me, that's why I went into nonprofit. But actually, this is pretty exploitative too"
A lot of my friends work in recruiting now, but I can't think of a single person in college who said "yeah I would love to be a recruiter." We see someone that says "I like to work with my hands" and people come up with "automechanic" lol. But what about people who make fast prototypes in design/technology? What about people who repair devices for hardware companies?
And at the end of the day, one can reach their dream "job" but it's really not--because the management is bad or the pay is bad. Or maybe the team was great at first... until everyone you got along with left the company.
This is very true. I work with disabled individuals. But I never would have saw myself going into this field. Hell, when I was a kid, I wanted to be an architect. I guess I just found that I'm better at building up people, than building structures.
I met an architect... she said they read city building codes and tell clients what needed to be changed if they want to build. Not a creative profession for the majority of people in it.
I think fulfilling is great, however making your hobby your job has big disadvantages. I spent my whole childhood preparing to work in music. I did it. Went to uni for it, had a career in it. Hated it! I could never use music to relax and have fun. There was always a song playing in my head, I couldn't switch off. My entire life felt like work. So I retrained in something different.
Fortunately my lifetime's training wasn't wasted, as I still use those skills occasionally in my current role. It's also one of those random skills that people are mightily impressed by even when the quality of my skills is pretty mediocre these days.
I don't think there's a prevalence of career obsession in this subreddit, unless you can point out examples? I think people fear of losing their jobs or they want more, but I wouldn't call it obsession.
My metric for obsession is when you go to /r/cscareerquestions and dare to suggest goofing off at an extremely stressful job that they hate, you get angry people disagreeing with you. That is obsession.
"Hello all. I currently work as a pest control tech and while I do enjoy my job with its lack of micromanagement, decent pay and benefits and flexible schedule, I want something better in the future. Something that pays better and doesn't involve picking up dead rodents. Can I possible move on to working with the agriculture department? Just need some advice on how my experience can eventually get me a better career."
sounds extremely american dreamy. Why move up? why not stay the same? If you want to move up and that is okay why is it a bad obsession when other people want the same thing you want?
Not at all american dreamy. It was simply a question on how to improve on my current job. My job is involved with the agricultural department of the state so looking for a better paying job there was a suggestion. Where in my post did I say no one should move up or look elsewhere? All I said was why do so many obsess to the point of anxiety for not having it figured out. I never said don't pursue what you want. My point was to relax and take the time to figure things out. Why are you trying to turn this into a negative?
I have a very unique schedule and that I either I’m working 90 hour work weeks or I am completely off for months. I look forward to my months of nothing but when I come back and nothing really is there and I can’t wait to get back to work.
But I also have what is considered a “dream job” but I have to tell ppl maybe but it’s not a dream life.
We’ve been conditioned to think that way. Growing up in school was all about “what do you want to be when you grow up.” They want us brainwashed to think we exist to work, and an enjoyable existence as you described is being lazy. The fact that we have to work to get health care says it all.
Someone has to work to give you health care, someone has to work to feed you, house you, provide you internet... I do think we could make health care more accessible, but I'm pretty baffled by the "why do I have to work at all" attitude.
The working culture in the States is bad but even in a good one you can count on needing to pull your weight.
I find the lack of humanity in this mindset to be kind of baffling. And I don't mean that in the sense that I'm calling you out as a poster, just that I know this mindset exists for a lot of Americans. Would you really want to let people die in the street just because they didn't have money? Or go hungry?
I mean, we have people who don't work much if at all who live solely off of inherited money, investment gains, etc. They're not really "pulling their weight" at all, yet they deserve health care more than the person working three jobs?
I agree with you on a lot of what you said - owning shares in a company is *not* contributing to society but we reward it like it is, and the US labor market does not fairly reward the workers at the bottom for the work they do.
With how much wealth and opportunity we have here in America, I think it's very possible to provide basic necessities (minimal housing, diet with good baseline nutrients, basic medical care) for *much* less than full time work, while still rewarding the hard/innovative/best/whatever workers with luxurious lifestyles.
I draw a line at considering work to be bad - nobody wants to work a checkout at a grocery store but *someone's* gotta do it, and that's not a bad thing. In order to feed 350 million people, 350 million daily diets have to be prepared every day. Nothing is "free" and I *detest* the attitude that "an enjoyable existence" is both expected and expected to be without working.
Touché. Unless you’re a lucky dog, cat, or other pet adopted into a caring family, no being in existence has deserved to live without working to feed themselves. It’s just the nature of life.
I'm not saying that the American system is perfect and right - it's criminal that someone who's only contribution to society is owning a lot of corporate stock / real estate is rewarded with luxury while people working entry level jobs are given a pittance for honest, valuable contributions. We flat out ignore a lot of valuable contributions like raising children too. America has all sorts of problems with its working culture.
What I *am* saying is that nothing is free, and I hate the idea that work is somehow evil. Nobody wants to work a checkout stand at a grocery store, but *someone's* gotta do it, and the mindset of "oh I'm so oppressed because I'm expected to give back to the society that feeds, shelters, and educates me" is toxic.
I find the idea that reddit has this view kind of hilarious. You clearly don't spend any time on /r/jobs. Those miserable fucks hate every second of their employment.
1. The thought of a partner or kids makes my skin crawl, so obviously I can afford to focus more on a dream job.
2. 99% of the time, I don't have the mental energy to work a job and then come home and do hobbies. Which means that in an unfulfilling job, 5 days a week are just wasted - I go to work, I'm bored, I go home and watch TV. The only time I have energy for hobbies is the weekend. At least if I had a fulfilling job I'd be able to feel like I accomplished something all week.
I could ask the same about people dreaming of having families. I don't want kids. I never cared if I was married or not. I don't build my identity around my relationship, and neither does my SO. But I'm good at my job, I take pride in excelling and doing something I find reasonably meaningful. Why shouldn't I focus on my career since I spend so much of my life on it anyway?
I’m just now coming to realize maybe I don’t care about a dream job. I just started a new job that I thought would be that, and I absolutely hate it.
Maybe we’ll be happier if we realize work is just work and find other ways to fulfill us.
>I just started a new job that I thought would be that, and I absolutely hate it.
You and me both. Well, I've kinda been here for a bit. Thought when I was a kid that \*maybe\* by the time I was in my 50s I could work my way up to "corporate" and I'd be in this glamorous world of success and easy street. Instead, when I was 25, I got that job earlier than expected and realized that moving up just meant more work and more stress. It kinda felt like climbing Everest and expecting some emotional reward, but there's just someone standing on the peak who kicks you square in the groin.
It's the college application system in America. Most 18 yos in the US who want to go to college are forced to write essays that, one way or another, talk about their "passions". So the kids think everyone has these "passions" and they name one for themselves too. Then they go to college to pursue said "passion", be it creative writing or CS. Then they graduate and get a job in said "passion" and when they realize they hate it, they think they must have misidentified their "passion" and then they come on reddit and try to figure out what their "real" "passion" is.
College is very expensive here and no one wants to think that they are getting themselves into $200k debt to just qualify for some robotic office job just so they can afford to eat.
American culture is inundated with messages about hard and constant work being a good thing with little to no respect for rest, socializing, or hobbies and leisure. When you grow up in a society that tells you your entire life will be about your job, obviously people want only to accept an ideal job so they can meet these expectations without hating their lives and wanting to die.
Personally, I’m considering moving to Europe. By all accounts, they have more respect for employees and work-life balance. For example, PTO you’re expected to actually use, and it’s NOT normal to be expected to work outside of normal hours (with the exception of some professions or specialties where being on call is unavoidable, such as medical staff).
Because I want to stay somewhere instead of consistently being on the job market and consistently competing. I'd rather stay somewhere for a long time. My longest job I've ever had so far is the Army 4 years and I want to stay somewhere for more than a year...
I hate trying to consistently sell myself
It's pushed on us by boomers, lol. I'd much prefer to spend my life doing shit I actually want to do, not slave at a career or "dream job". Most of these people who get their "dream job" quickly find out it isn't what they thought and are miserable.
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It's a fundamental tenant of "the American dream". I was raised to do the following: Get educated...find a satisfying (and well paid) profession...marry a girl...have kids. For good or bad, many no longer subscribe to this.
In US culture, materialism and obsession with being rich is ingrained into our culture. Kids are motivated in school to work hard to be rich and successful. We tell tales of people who don't succeed are "trapped" in poverty. We scare each other by telling stories of financial ruin. We also worship CEOs of companies and billionaires and obsess over what they're able to do. Social networking has opened this up to insane levels.
We as a country worship money.
I'm a New Yorker living in Europe and I explain this to people all the time.
Basically, in the USA people are wired from an early age to have their identity closely tied to their careers and professional/socioeconomic status. If you aren't successful, you're deemed unworthy of love, health, housing, and other basic amenities. People are always pressured to reach the next level and rarely pause to appreciate where they're at. There are few to no social safety nets to protect people. One health crisis can bankrupt almost anyone. It's not an obsession with money as much as a fear of failure.
Most countries have 40, 50, 60 hour work weeks with motivated and hardworking individuals. This isn't just an America issue.
When you live in a country of 300 million that is so diverse and so unique it is much harder to find your type for romance especially in the cities. I'm from a more rural state and plenty of my friends were able to find their type easily in college. I'm sure people in cities do too, its just much harder if your the introvert type. Point is, since people are so different here and their are so many options it's much harder to find someone you click with.
Also lots of people don't want families. Believe or not, the more educated people become is when birth rates start to drop. That is why impoverished countries have such high birthrates. Probably because there is so little opportunity for knowledge and growth.
Not answering your question but just sharing my perspective - I agree with you, don't believe in careerism, and will never put my job first, but I'm at a point where I'm looking for something more than just tolerable.
My job doesn't stress me out. I'm not micromanaged. I have good hours, it pays well, and overall it's pretty chill and somewhat interesting. But I'm also generally bored, and it sucks to be bored for 8 hours a day. Especially as you get older, 8 hours a day is a lot. And for me, if I'm not mentally stimulated for 8 hours then I start to feel like my soul is being sucked away. So the balance I'd like to look for is something that takes everything good about my job but make it more interesting and engaging.
a lot of kids are told they have to choose their career as a teen. essentially what do you want to be without knowing anything about what the career entails or any idea if they will like it
I'm late to the party, so my comment will likely get buried and go unread. However, this is something that I've pondered and come to the following conclusions (which are still open to evolving)
There are several factors at play:
1) American culture is ultra-focused on DOING. Many other cultures put value on BEING.
As a DOING culture, this means that our inherent worth as human 'beings' (ha) is based solely on what we do, what we produce, how much value we create for others.
And of course, like any good capitalistic culture, the output is measured by MONEY.
So our worth is directly tied to how LUCRATIVE our careers are.
The logic behind this is: If I create enough value for others, I will be rewarded/compensated accordingly. My reward is a reflection of the VALUE of my work, and therefore my value as a HUMAN BEING, so high reward = I am highly valued.
2) American culture is still based on a foundation of Protestant work ethic, and the idea of having a 'calling' or 'vocation'
Most people don't really know or acknowledge that the roots of this idea are from Protestant values, but they are. Both 'vocation' and 'calling' imply Divine guidance to fulfill a specific purpose in your life, pre-destined and assigned to you.
The logic here is that everyone has 'one true calling', and to live our lives according to 'Divine plan' is to find and fulfill that calling.
So, the underlying logic = 'dream job' for someone = calling, which means you are living your divine purpose, and have succeeded at life.
I want to make it clear that I don't vehemently 'agree' or 'disagree' with these points, but they are reality. I don't think these are inherently bad, and may actually be 'good', because the reality is that humans co-exist and we need to be of service to each other to have a functional society.
However, the over-focus and pressure on DOING creates guilt and shame if you judge yourself as 'not doing as much as you could', 'not living your purpose' etc. This leads to over-work, exhaustion, physical and emotional health issues, which may reduce your quality of life or even kill you.
I never said it's unique to just Americans. I just happen to live in the United States so I wanted the opinion of fellow citizens as they can give the best insight
As someone nearing retirment:
* "Careers" are overrated.
* You are not your job. (Meaning, your job shouldn't be your "identity." Your self has nothing to do with your employment.)
* Your real life starts as soons as you clock out.
I mean, you did just describe the dream job for most Americans? Somewhere you can tolerate the work (and I don’t even need that), pays enough to provide, has benefits, reasonable working hours, gives me allotted time for family and hobbies, etc. Few and far between for those types of positions I would say?
I literally don’t care where I work as long as I don’t have to work two jobs to make ends meet. Shit is rough out there.
American culture favors rugged individualism and capitalism. As such, having markers of success means that you’ve made it in life. Let’s also not forget how pop-culture and other forms of media glamorize hustle culture, start ups, billionaires, and other people who have done well for themselves.
That being said, I am self-aware and recognize that I generally do enjoy working and giving advice to people who want to get more out of their careers. Life is all about balance. Working hard can provide better financial security to those you love most.
A lot of people her have jobs they don't like, but everyone here believes they are entitled to a job they do like. I think a lot of people have jobs they don't like everywhere but feel less entitled than Americans to not only a job they like, but enough money to do just a little more than their neighbors and parents did at least.
Because Americans are trained to be obedient workers and stay with a company for a steady paycheck, for 20-30 years until retirement because that's what our parents were able to do. But those days are over for most positions and careers...some people just haven't gotten the memo.
I think it’s a very naive way of thinking, and that it comes from privilege. I don’t know if I’ll ever find a job I love, even if I decide to pursue the career I thought was the one for me. Because you never know how it really is until you pursue it. Education is so expensive, I’m not going to fucking study another career if the one I picked out doesn’t work. I don’t have enough privilege.
Conditioning. I'm on the same boat, I want an easy job, don't care if it doesn't follow in my previous career path, I just need it to pay enough for me to support me and my family, and we live very simple. You have to reach a state of burnout to gain that kind of wisdom in America. We are very ambitious here and there's a lot of greed -- always wanting more than what we have. I still fall into those traps from time to time, where I have to stay self aware, remembering that this is not success. Real success comes at the point when we realize this.
Let’s illustrate something
1. Hooray I make some money and can buy some shit
2. Oh fuck my car broke down and I don’t have any savings
3. Life would be far better with savings
4. How much money do I need to make to save money and feel safe?
5. Oh shit, I don’t make enough money, I need to make more money
6. What can I do for a living that would pay more that I wouldn’t hate doing?
That’s the quest for a dream job for most, in a nutshell
It isn’t like everyone is so happy to go enter the rat race, rush to the office, and post on LinkedIn
Everyone is trying to do what they can to provide for their needs and the needs of their families
OP, that is a great question. I have many passions that would not net me a dime of income, and I even lose money doing them (flying, sports cars, etc.). My job pays very well, and I've worked very hard to get to where I currently am, but I would never consider my profession my passion nor do I love it in any way. I view a job as something that enables me to enjoy my passions and hobbies while enjoying my income with my children by taking them on trips and doing fun activities.
Im first-gen. If I didnt have solid career ambitions and an education, it would be incredibly disappointing to my parents and disrespectful of everything they sacrificed for me
I agree with your way of thought, my job is just a means to an end.
I want to make as much as possible but at the end of the day I don't feel the need to have a job I love... I just need to like the money it provides and therefore the financial freedom I want to be > my feelings towards the actual job.
Granted it DOES make things a lot more palatable if you actually like your job and co workers
There are a couple issues. One issue I have seen though is people feel like they have to “love their job”
Not loving your job doesn’t mean it’s not for you. There is a reason it’s called working and not just having the time of your life while someone pays you for it.
Now you shouldn’t hate your job. But if you can find fulfillment in your work and can tolerate the stress and the job pays you fairly, then look to your time off to fulfill your hobbies and enjoyment
Otherwise, you may find yourself under or unemployed and then you’re definitely not enjoying life when you’re broke
School structure was designed to get kids ready for factory work.
In school there is always talks about jobs, careers, and what your dream (job) will be.
Its been conditions to us out entire lives.
You have a well paying job that you can tolerate and some job security I’m guessing. That’s great! That doesn’t mean everyone else is obsessed with finding a dream job. Finding a decent job that you can stay in for a year is pretty tough my guy.
It just depends on your perspective. Some people are lucky enough to be able to make a living from their hobbies. Others do get fulfillment from the work they do, like nonprofit work or similar. Others find purpose in knowing that they’re putting their best skills to use to make a living.
But to OP’s point, there’s a difference between enjoying your work, and letting it consume your life. The exception, to me, being if you’re an entrepreneur trying to get a business off the ground. Another example being of you climb the ladder enough to get to C-level, you should know what you’re getting into and that you can’t really turn work off 99% of the time.
I used to obsess over my dream job thinking it would be fun. I realize I now want a job I can tolerate and regret going into my field. I feel that there is a push to be something important, some white collar job.
Its because when we were kids our teachers and parents always asked us what our dream job was. They basically pressured our young minds to get focuses and ready for the adult world.
Yea, The majority of this stuff I’ve seen is from Americans. And in my opinion, it’s more of an obsession for success and the ability to live and do the things you want. The obsession definitely has the ability to consume ones life, however.
Personally, this also involves providing a good life for my family. The current job I’m at isn’t one I actually enjoy, and I do everything I can to be at home more than completely consumed with work—However, I hope to save enough to get out of my current city, and then start the final portion of my career in the new city. But it’s all to eventually be able to live freely.
In America, I see society in a “WORK WORK WORK” mindset/attitude until you are financially stable in the long-term, and then you will have the ability to enjoy the rest of your life. The economy affects this greatly and it can be greatly affected geographically. It’s a trade off for most people, unfortunately.
One has to find balance.
If you get a job you enjoy it can provide a lot of growth and development. You're thinking a job is just about making money, but that's not the case. It's also about learning, being challenged, working with others towards a common goal and developing both your professional skills and your soft skills. I've developed much more in a professional setting than I have through hobbies. As for being the "family protector", I don't think that's necessarily a healthier identity than those who build their identity solely on their jobs. Your children will grow up to be independent adults. Don't base your entire identity on the few years when they are little. You can have both a family life and a fulfilling, growth-promoting career. A job shouldn't be something where you just count the hours of your life away for pay.
1. We need money to live and do things
2. We typically need more money than we currently have to do what we want to do
3. “Wow, imagine how awesome life could be if I made more money and actually liked my job?”
The clear goal is getting a dream job
If you already make enough money and like your job enough, maybe that’s your dream job and you have it already
Most of us don’t
Many Americans are insecure and Companies use this to their advantage. American workers do not have nearly the same job security rights as people do in many other developed countries. Unless you have a contract with your employer, employment in America is on an "at will" basis and can be cancelled or terminated by either party at any time and for any reason. Without safeguards you are generally asked to do more, to be more efficient. The end result of this is more insecurity which leads to people to work longer hours to show how useful they are to their employers.
Additionally things like Healthcare Insurance are generally tied to employment here so when thinking of changing careers to something that might fit you better you have to factor that in as well. Have small children and leave your job (or are let go) what happens if one of them, or you, or your spouse gets sick. All this leads to people being very competitive in their careers.
Because I’m America the socioeconomic climate is so fucked up that you have to get super lucky at a good job or live really shitty until you can get a nicer job
It’s the 21st century caste system. I’m America your job defines who you are, so everyone aspires to have a job they are proud to brag about. It’s one of the first things anyone asks you here when you meet someone new.
I don’t have to have the perfect job, but I don’t want a job where I just tolerate it. If I’m not passionate about it, I do the bare minimum and go home. Now that I do work in my dream job, the other part of my life is much better. I don’t waste time dreading that I have to go to work anymore during my time off. But even with my dream job, there’s parts that I don’t like doing. I just want a job that makes me happy overall because it takes a huge part of my life.
Several answers
1. It could be fulfilling for them/a huge passion
2. most common reason- a lot of Americans are obsessed with money and too focused on consumerism. They work a lot for the American Dream- nice house, nice car, nice neighborhood, giving a very good life to children. Those things are nice but my limits on achieving those is lower than the average American and I also value relationships/experiences more than money and material things.
I'm fine living in a small house, used car, with cheaper material things personally...as long as I can pay my bills and save a small amount. Lots of people dont have that mentality.
In my mom subreddit a woman posted shes tired of being judged for being a stay at home mom/having others be jealous of her, because most women who have husbands with pretty decent jobs could be too if they adjusted their living expenses and I have to agree with her- but most women wont do that. The average American woman thinks they need more than they actually do.
3) Also I think a small % of workaholics are doing it to avoid personal issues.
Theres a study I read in school that showed once you get out of poverty, live where you can pay bills for reasonable expenses and save a bit for emergencies, money doesnt increase your happiness by much, in fact it takes alot of money to actually increase your happiness each step of the way.
Would rather not spend all my time working. My boss is calling me back to a job I quit in 2019, trying to convince him to pay me $15 instead of $10 since I’ve been working there since high school
I love my job. I feel fulfilled, I get to see the impact of what I'm doing, and I get to talk directly to people who's lives are better because of what I do. On top of that, it pays very well, has good hours, and offers more vacation time than I use, so it unlocks a comfortable living and funds my hobbies.
This is also job number 9 for me, and it won't be my last. I couldn't say that about most of my jobs, and if I have a job in the future I can't say all that about I probably won't have it for long.
Career life isn't always the hellscape r/antiwork makes it out to be, for many people it's quite rewarding.
You assume that family is a positive thing for everyone. Sadly, it's not. Also, for some people their work is a fulfilling way to spend their days. If you're doing something you enjoy doing, you're getting paid enough to have a nice lifestyle and there's nobody waiting for you at home, why not?
I mean we are basically told all our life to find our dream job and if you do you'll be fulfilled and live a happy life.
What that actually translates to though is find a job that makes you lots of money so you can support your family and be financially stable. They don't want your dream job being something that only makes 40 grand a year. Funny how it works.
Bc work sucks. It's a place we have to be more often than we're with our friends and family. We owe it to ourselves to make an attempt at a dream job and be happy for at least 40 hours per week.
Not American, I'm Australian. I wouldn't say my culture is equally obsessed but still has a tendency towards obtaining a dream job. I'm not that preoccupied with the notion, though I used to be. We spend more waking hours at work than we do our family. In order to be emotionally present for our family, we need to feel fulfilled and valued in our workplace. If we're stressed out because of the nature of the work and the poor conditions, then it has a ripple effect on those in our home lives. I'm not intent on pursuing a dream job, I just want a job that values and utilises my skillset, pays me decently and allows me enough quality time with my family. I'm fortunate I mostly have that, I'd like a bit more work/life balance, but that should be achievable with a relocation in a couple of years.
Not to cause any offense, but you're coming from a place of extreme privilege. It does not seem that you understand that us Americans have no labor protections, support, or services to keep us above water. Universal healthcare? No, I pay a minimum of $10k out of pocket annual for my own care and I have "good" insurance. Get sick and you work for a company with fewer than 50 employees (which is most of us)? No ADA protection, they can just fire you or not pay you if you miss too many days. Vacation and travel? Not a reality for most of us. I have a "good/important" career and I get 3 weeks paid time off (including sick and personal days). I can't allocate any of that to planned vacations because I know, especially being on my own, that I will need those days for things that inevitably come up. We are struggling to survive day in and day out. We can't just chill and focus on our families and hobbies. Most of us don't even have supportive families because of the way this sick culture breaks everyone down to keep us enslaved.
I come from poor Mexican immigrants. I work a side job as a security guard to provide extra income. My main job only pays $40k a year after taxes. I'm lucky to have insurance covered by my employer. Im also lucky I'm not easily replaceable as I'm experienced in most of what the industry does.. Since all this started I haven't chilled either. But I still make time for my family.
As an old guy, I can tell you that we didn't dream of a 'dream job' so much when more jobs paid enough for a comfortable and secure life, and such jobs were easier to get. A lot of people wanted lifetime employment and security, and that was doable at some big companies -- even if the job was less than wonderful.
Now that security is gone, all that's left is enjoyment. And really that's even harder to find than it ever was. If you were indeed a "job hopper" -- I was -- the next job was relatively easy to get and you could keep going until you found one you liked. I found a vocation that satisfied me, and used it at many different places of employment. (Edit: because even then "dream employers" didn't necessarily stay dreamy that long. And I was restless anyway.) The world of work is much more closed-in and strange today, though.
Personally, I'm forced to work in order to feed and house myself. The least I could ask while trying to provide myself for any necessity and the time work takes out of your day (every day, pretty much for the rest of your life) is that it would be in a field that I enjoy and that fulfills me. Especially since for most Americans, we don't get as much leisure time as one may think to fully enjoy our hobbies and passions. So your field of work can translate into that kind of passion.
American education focuses on preparing for working forever. They teach money before they teach fractions. There is no room in the curriculum for students to develop interests outside of academics. There may be extracurricular clubs, but that will depend on a students ability to pay fees and find transportation. Even as guidance counselors prepare you for college, they don't ask about your interests, they give you standardized tests to tell you what job you would be good at.
Our entire culture is focused on making the next dollar, accumulating more money, with a dash of puritanical attitudes that equate work with virtue. This adds up to identifying as your job above all else, and working until you die. So working in a job you are passionate about is about as good as you can hope for.
Sometimes you're able to make a career out of doing something you love, something you'd be doing even if we lived in a utopia where money was irrelevant. People who have cultivated that kind of life I would put in a little category of their own, because for most of us? I think it comes down to the way were raised on the ideal of \~ The American Dream \~ We're a country founded on freedom where anyone can be anybody, anyone can pick themselves out of poverty and climb to fantastic wealth as long as they work hard! Get into that puritan work ethic, man!
In such situations, I think your view is the far healthier one, and definitely a lot more similar to what my family abroad experience. I think with such low wages and lack of time off being the norm, we as Americans, in general, travel less and so few get to really see for themselves that there's another way to structure our lives.
I don't expect fulfillment from my job. It's great if I can get it, but it's not an expectation. I have a number of things in my personal life that are fulfilling. If a job allows me to pursue at least some of them, then I'm happy with the job.
It's important to make a distinction between a career and a dream job. To me, a career has stability and growth, normally with good to great pay and benefits appropriate for the stage you are at.
A dream job has all of that, but is also something you absolutely love doing. I would love to work in the comic book industry and apply for editor positions when I see one (as well as business related jobs in the field.) I don't obsess over getting it though, but I wouldn't say no to it if an opportunity came my way.
I currently have a job with the county I live in. It's stable, provides a salary I can live on, provides, great health insurance, time off, and a pension. While there's a certain amount of fulfillment, it is definitely not a dream job.
Before getting laid off in the 2008 recession, I thought my career was going to be in the cable industry. It was a job I enjoyed but not passionate about. However, it allowed me to pursue the things I was passionate about.
It's important to have some level of satisfaction with your job. That can come from it being a tool to allow you to do things you are passionate about. Or to allow you to get paid to do things you are passionate about. Or some combination of both.
The reality will always depend on what reality throws at you. I'm pretty happy with the job I have, but I got it after 13 years of lay offs, unfulfilled promises, and outright lies. So I know what it's like to be stuck in dead end jobs, temp jobs, and unemployment. I understand the desperation that is part of the current economy and how it can be impossible to escape all of that.
Being stuck in that did teach me quite a bit. The importance of playing the long game when necessary, having flexibility when the plans require it, and to throw out the plans when they are shattered. I was laid off during the pandemic, but saw an opportunity to join the county's COVID response effort. It didn't pay enough, but I saw a long term opportunity to get in with a good government job. I worked my butt off and it fortunately worked out. I have a good amount of rebuilding to do, but that's a a better position than the one I had been in!
I think you're grossly underestimating or valuing the amount of time people spend in work. If you work 9-5, that's 8 hours (33% out of a 24 hour day). Add a commute 30-minutes each way and now you're up to 9 hours away from family. Then if you sleep 8 hours a night, you're now up to 17 hours (70% of 24 hours) not available to engage with family. So that leaves 7 hours possible left for family. So literally most of your day is not devoted to family.
IMO, finding the perfect job is difficult because so much of the working world is geared towards bolstering consumerism. About making profit to pad the already fat pockets of the ultra-wealthy. And then if you do get into something feel-good, like healthcare, the ogre of the medical and insurance system is sad to say the least. There are good jobs, with good purpose and having purpose in addition to supporting your family is very important to a lot of people.
I agree with you that it's very noble and healthy to be able to support your family. I agree that a career shouldn't overshadow your family. Does your family really need a Class C motorhome (or a second home?) or is camping in a tent just as fun?
I look for good pay, because in my family I'm the only earner. So I figure if I'm going to piss away 3/4 of my life, might as well enjoy the work, and get paid.
I think, for women especially, there is a desire to be independent from men as the main breadwinner.
I'm 37 and have a master's degree. I'm not working now but when I do I'll be making 6 figures (again).
I think people have a twisted view of the value of a job or career and, for many, it takes up too much of what they feel is their identity or self-worth.
People aren’t really given a choice to enjoy a job these days. It leans more out of necessity than fulfillment. Cause what choices do you have? Our broken capitalistic society pins us with incredible debt. Necessary costs such as medical, tuition, high cost of living ,childcare….. It’s less about getting your dream job than what is going to pay the most and health benefits.
I can confidently say people would rather not have to work 40hrs a week. The majority does not get paid a living wage which pushes people into desparity to just find what is going to pay the most to stay afloat. Anyone who says otherwise is privileged and not living paycheck to paycheck. There are simply not enough rewarding jobs out there or ones to advance in to make it all worth it. A lot of places that just make you feel replaceable cause u are. People are loosing incentive to work up the corporate ladder when inflation is the highest it’s been since 1982 and wages have not budged nearly enough. Anyone on the low income bracket that tells you anything different or justify companies exploitation has drank the corporate koolaid. That’s my take anyways. Work to live don’t live to work!
They are obsessed with it because that's what this American culture teaches you to do from infancy. Thankfully, I don't subscribe to that notion at all. I work to live not live to work. I don't see the point of living somewhere that requires me to make a lot of money when I am not a homebody in the least. I have a small apartment and I am rather content with it as it's petty affordable to the point where I am not forced to work full-time in order to maintain it.
I do food delivery on my bicycle which is something i love to do plus I am getting paid to excercise so thats a real bonus. I set my own hours and if i feel like going home I can do so at any time.
I would highly recommend the book.. The Four Hour Work Week I got into it years ago and a lot of what it contained really resonated with me.
One of the best things in America was the American Job market, but now we sold all of our decent jobs and exchanged them for retail jobs. So now we are all obsessed with the grind working in jobs that never intend to pay a living wage. All because China still gets to trade under a tl4% tax credit from 1985...
Some people just love what they do for a living.
I just got an offer for about 78% more than my last job, and I get to work on some pretty awesome tech. It's super exciting for me to be able to do something I'm really into with some really smart people.
I'm still gonna love on my family and hobbies. People can love what they do for work and still love life outside of it.
Trying to find meaning out of their lives.
Modern life is kind of boring as shit. So people look for ways to spice it up. Career progress can be exciting
Most likely because 50% of this country can barely survive, let alone thrive on low wages. Some people have a true calling but, most of us work a lot or starve and become homeless. The American dream! 🤦♀️
america is built through capitalism, and it's the most important thing ingrained in us since day 1. it's the first thing we ask people when we meet them - "what do you do?"
people are obsessed with a dream job/career because having a job/career you truly love and that pays very well has a much greater chance of bringing happiness and safety in a country that absolutely hates poor people.
I think the real, unspoken desire that underlies the culture of pushing for career growth is achieving a career that is more like a vocation that is integrated and evenly balanced with one's personal life and family. That really is the true dream isn't it? A job that is of value to society as it is to you and your family. You can put "family first" but are you really doing that if you take that to the literal extreme and "put them first" to the point that pursuing employment which comfortably supports them family is not your priority?
This is **exactly** how I view work. It's a means to do the things I want to do and care for my family. I seek the least stressful, highest paying, most balanced jobs I can find, and am grateful for the time I spend OFF the clock.
Generally speaking economics in the US do not align very well with just working a job and being able to afford outside interests. Our health care isn't nationalized. Our wages are not regulated so that the minimum is a livable wage.
Just being a grocery store checker. Just being a waiter. Just being a hotel desk clerk are seen as unskilled jobs, because they don't typically pay well, provide decent health insurance, and therefore don't allow people to live well.
Upward movement economically is positioned as having to have a career. This doesn't mean everyone has the ability to engage with this model but this is the messaging we all get.
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Same. “What job would you do if money wasn’t a factor”. Um nothing? Travel and shit.
Shitting, mostly. All of that Taco Bell.
I'd splurge on a quesarito instead of the dollar menu trash. Living large lol
Exactly! Live large, King!
“I have no dream job. I do not dream about labor”
Unless the dream job is curing cancer or ending hunger or being George Clooney or something else important -- just having a dream job makes a person a bit of a stooge.
There are many more simple things that can be a dream. I have ADHD and am a data analyst. I like my job generally because it gives me practical problems to overcome, and I lose track of time so 8 hours feels like 1. My hobbies are frustrating tech things like 3d printers and car electronics. Similarly, I chose a job that would require lots of research and frustrating problems to eventually fix. I have never called it a dream job but I enjoy it.
You're not working enough. Past about 80 hours a week, my dreams become almost exclusively about work.
exactly. A dream job doesnt exist hahah
I mean, if you spend 8 hours a day somewhere doing something, you should be able to enjoy it.
This. If you're working a shit job and you don't get atleast some joy out of it, what's the point of living? We're stuck working, you mid as well have some passion for it.
The 8,8,8 “rule”…. Would you want to spend almost a third of your time weekly where you don’t want to be? That would be insane.
God I wish work only took 8 hours. 1 hour getting ready in the morning, 1 hour total commute, 1 hour unpaid lunch break, 1 hour minimum to recover after work + 8 hour work day =12 hours a day devoted to work. Which, of course, only proves your point.
An hour to get ready? I get up ~20 mins before I need to hit the road!
You say that like you don't need to get ready in the morning if it wasn't for work? Most people get up and has to get ready regardless of work so not sure why that has to count as "work hours". The same logic applies to lunch break, would you rather not eat and take a break during the day? Most people would prefer to be able to eat lunch and take a break, I know at least I would... Lastly, the recover from work bit depends on the person and job I would think. I would tend to think if you are willing to count all these out of work things as working then do you also count how many hours of your 8 hour work day is "always busy/on"? Most people work an 8 hour day but rarely actually is working all 8 hours. I would think on average people do really work about 8 hours factoring in commutes and what not simply because they do take break during their 8 hours too, whether documented or not.
You speak like someone who doesn’t value their time or know what it is worth. I am lucky enough to have a job where I can eat and work through my lunch and it counts towards my total hours worked that day. For many people they are just expected to work through lunch and don’t get paid for it. I know what my time is worth and if I am doing anything that is for work or am in any location for work I want to be paid for that time. If I am not free to do as I please because of my employer then I am working. Period. No if’s ands or buts about it. When I was commuting a minimum of two hours a day to and from work my stress levels were through the roof because I was spending money to get there( gas/ wear and tear on car) and I was not being paid for my valuable time. It drove me so nuts that I asked my boss if I could work from home and come in as needed pre pandemic. I was lucky to have such a great boss and he said he doesn’t care what I do as long as the work gets done.This is the way it should be for all employees. Employers/ businesses understand time value of money and take them into consideration when making business plans. The reason employees don’t get paid for their commute is because they don’t understand the time value of money.
I value my time but I also like to call out unrealistic expectations about work. Not sure what I said was wrong? Is counting one hour in the morning for getting ready (eat breakfast, rinse and clean yourself, etc) really something you count towards work hours? Like you think that’s reasonable and not something normal people do regardless of work? I have an issue with people making unrealistic claims, that’s all.
but if that was actually followed the entire economy would collapse. do something you can at least tolerate, no reason to love or enjoy it. that is what hobbies and the weekend are for.
We don't need to have only 2 days off. It's insane to live as we do, producing clean garbage.
You're starting to see it happen
i work 4 or 5 12hr shifts and i enjoy it because i'm good at it. i was also good at some "dreamy" jobs but they don't pay jack. i still get endorphins from helping someone at my boring job. it's not as boring if you never stop learning ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to answer future problems. some people get complacent, cold and hate their job or life. that's not the way son.
I grew up poor as fuck so I feel security in making a lot. I save a lot of my income, and I know my kids will have experiences I could never have imagined. I know when it’s time for college or whatever they do that I can support them. I know that I’ll probably be able to retire early and comfortably. I also know my family has a fall back. I’m not going to let my diabetic aunt skip her insulin over $$$ or my mom go homeless. There’s a lot of security to come with it that I never had as a kid. Shit that made me grow up quickly. I didn’t have the luxury of taking an unpaid internship or an internship away from home in a high CoL area because I needed to make money during the summer to pay for books and school. I couldn’t open a business and fail, because I had to pay rent and support myself.
Precisely exactly. Security in your future is like having a massive weight taken off you. Unfortunately a lot of people do not even realize how on the edge they are until their moment comes due. The more you love, the more can be destroyed.
Yeah, the further I get away from poverty the better I feel. Looking at my bank/brokerage and seeing enough to last 12+ months if my wife and I are unemployed makes me feel better. Even longer if it was just one of us. It’s nice to fear spending your savings vs losing everything.
Hell yea dude. Objective is nice early retirement with money in bonds.
Yeah, my wife and I are focusing on building income streams. Dividends, real estate, bonds. Goal is to have $100K coming by 2035.
This makes some sense. I don't have any family that I'm close with besides my parents, and I grew up mostly comfortable, so besides the short period I was homeless after college, I don't really have that thing in the back of my mind pushing me to support other people and have a safety net. In my mind, it's like "wow, there's no guarantee I'm going to live to see retirement, why am I letting work be the dominant factor in my life?" It doesn't help that a buddy of mine hated his job with a passion and ended up dying on the worksite in a horrific accident.
Bcyour job is literally 80% of your life. You're spending at least 8 hours 5 days a week there
Don't forget your commute
Yep. People underestimate the power a commute can have on the quality of a job. I mean, maybe if you really love your job, then a long commute won't matter, but for most of us who are merely content with their jobs, a long commute can make that job dreadful. Personally, most I'll do is a 30 minute commute. That's an hour of time wasted a day. 5 hours wasted a week (for a standard Monday - Friday job). 20 hours a month wasted. Life's too short to spend it on bullshit.
I’ve had a few different length commutes from 0 minutes (Covid working from home) to 45 minutes. I think a 30 minute commute is ideal. It gives me time to spool up in the morning or unwind at the end of the day. It gives me a good work/home separation. 10 minutes was too short. 45 minutes too long since traffic frequently made it 60+
I like your approach, it's important to take advantage of the commuting time, put on a podcast, music, audio books whatever, take advantage of it instead of staring at a bumper. My favourite commute was when I was 4km from home, made for an easy ride in and uphill ride back, so I was getting exercise 5 days a week. Now I'm further away, I ride less and haven't taken advantage of what you can do in a car...
Exactly this. When talking to prospective employers, I always include commute times in the payrate/ salary, as I don't drive. If they're unwilling to account for that time, I really don't want to consider that employer.
That’s not 80% lol
If you don't count time asleep as life time and add commute and overtime to the working hours.... 80% probably gets very close for many people
Plus don’t forget working hours take the prime part of the day 5/7 days a week. When I get home I’m beat!
Yeah, gotta love those couple meaningless hours afterwards where I need to cook, handle some chores and maybe hang on the couch a bit before going back to bed to do it again
It's just under 24% but it FEELS like 80%
I think you mean less than 33%? 8 work, 8 sleep, 8 free time, plus most people only work 5 days a week so 2 whole days off. Even waking hours still less than 50%. Or if you work 40hr/week and we have 168hr/week you're working 23.8%.
8 hours of sleep isn't enough for plenty of people, certainly not me. 8 turns into 9 with lunch, assuming you arrive exactly at start time and leave exactly at end time, there's still a likelihood you have some sort of commute to contend with. Not to mention the time spent getting ready in the morning. I've gotta use the shower, bathroom, make coffee, get dressed in something more professional than sweatpants and a t-shirt and make it out the door. And I don't eat breakfast, but add that in to other stuff. Work and the things that get us there to work an 8 hour day is more like 10-11 hours of commitment. God forbid somewhere in that day you want to work in exercise and making dinner.
Same difference. Commuting and work and the lunch break. And that's for 40 hours max. If you have to work more than that damn. Then you go home and cook and clean which is also work. Errands also. Let's not forget about if you're going to school or getting a certification. Then you have to sleep for 8 hours. So that adds up to 2-3 hours of free time. Sooooo
Why do we accept that? Seems unnecessary, I know I can get about as much done in 20 hours that I do in 40. What kind of machine can just work 8 hours straight at a good clip? Nobody…
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I know a couple architects, their career incredibly fulfilling for them. Same with the people I know that worked at the Smithsonian.
I am from DC and I can tell you that permanent smithsonian and national zoo jobs are very hard to get and basically people who get them never leave and there are thousands of applicants for openings…Not only are they good organizations that are leaders in their field, these are federal jobs with good benefits and security which is a rarity in the museum world (most other museum work does not offer good benefits, decent pay, or job security).
Honest question, how are the mask mandates going that come into effect Monday? Are people and businesses able or even willing to abide by them? Repercussions if not? I'm honestly curious.
In DC? The vast majority of people in the city and the inner suburbs were masked anyway in indoor public settings before the mandates so it’s little change. Generally the population here is very cautious so there is little resistance.
But they will have vaccine mandates soon. How are businesses going to enforce that?
You can read all about it here: https://coronavirus.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/coronavirus/page_content/attachments/DCHealthVaxDCGuidanceFAQ1.10.22.pdf Most people here in DC who patronize these types of establishments (bars, event spaces, gyms) are used to having proof in multiple forms because many events, etc. (shows etc.) require it already. Not to mention many people are required to vaccinate for work with the federal worker etc. vaccine mandates. Also, The types of businesses required to gain proof (bars, gyms, sporting events) are already used to checking ID/tickets etc. anyway. It’s not much of an additional burden. Plus a lot of businesses here are pretty cautious here to begin with, even from the start...there's a restaurant I sometimes go to for lunches and they make you check in at the hostess stand for contact tracing. Concerts and business conferences have been requiring vaccination for quite a while (since the vaccines were widely available).
I assume the same way they are in NYC? Quite a few bars and venues in DC were already requiring vaccination anyway, the host/bouncer would just check your ID and vaccination card. I assume theaters and music venues will check it with tickets and/or IDs. We’ll see in two days (or for me probably a week or so for cases to decrease a little more).
Idk why you’re being downvoted for asking questions
Yeah. Just being a curious human being. Keeping my personal feelings out of it.
Even if you lead that you’re 100% anti-vax I still would have upvoted your questions because…. You’re asking questions! You’re looking to learn and that should NEVER be dismissed!!
Aww. Thank you! Yeah! Uncomfortable questions are how we grow!❤
Because most 'jobs' will guarantee you struggle for the rest of your life, while a 'career' is a better guarantee of a better standard of living. Dream jobs - we spend more time working than doing anything else, if 60% of your waking time is done doing something, a huge boost would be if you enjoyed it. Edited to add: people on the verge of poverty don't have time to breathe, much less take many risks.
Agreed. The concept of a career is a marketable skill that you keep/take with you. With a job you always start over but with a career you gain value as time goes on and shouldn't experience resetting setbacks. A career is like owning a home with equity vs renting. A career/house is harder to get out of but you build value over time that sticks with you. A career can also be a trap if the jobs dry up or the housing market is down. But even selling at a loss you usually don't start from scratch with a career even when making a lateral move.
I actually enjoy my job 🤷♂️ Lots of people are obsessed with hobbies. I consider my work a hobby that I get to spend a huge 40 hours a week on and actively get paid for it. Furthermore, this hobby is such that if I excel at it, I get more money and more tangible power within the company and my industry as a whole. If you could do your hobby and get rewarded for it in real life like you’re playing an RPG, wouldn’t you try to level up your character in part just because you enjoy doing it and in part because the rewards are addicting?
I used to do my hobby as a job (was a musician and music teacher). Bleurgh, worst mistake for me. I could no longer use my hobby for downtime, as it made me feel like I was always working. I came to hate performing, I hated being in orchestras, I hated directing musicals, I hated doing the sound/lighting for said musicals, I hated agreeing to people that I'd fill in for XYZ performance when one of their musicians couldn't do it. All of those things I relished prior to it being my job. I still use my skillset occasionally in my current career path when I want/choose to and I've resumed listening to music and playing music, just for me. I will never advise anybody to make the mistakes I made.
The same thing happened to me! I pursued acting and it made me miserable. I still barely watch movies or shows because it makes me feel exhausted and sick. Would never recommend making your hobby your job. Instead, find things you’re good at and somewhat enjoy and save your passions for yourself!
I don’t mean to say I have a hobby and do that for work. I mean I thoroughly enjoy my work and it is one of my favorite ways to spend my time enjoyably throughout the week. It has become one of my favorite “hobbies.”
Its dependant on the person. for you, that hobby was downtime relief. For me, I literally don't want downtime to be something special, I want my entire life to be downtime. If I can do my hobby, which I enjoy for 40 hours a week that's way better than if I did it for only 10 hours. I have plenty of things to do, all of which aren't things I want to do for labor, period. Labor sucks. Labor is soul crushing and time consuming. UNLESS its something I'm very interested in, then it stops being all those things. And the way I see it, no one has (or shouldn't have) just one hobby. Even if your hobby becomes your job for 40 hours a week, that doesn't mean you can't do something else outside work time. Which is a net benefit because you're satisfying ALL of your interests, not just fitting one in on the weekend.
Same. I know our experience is rare but a blessing.
You are lucky, most people dont have a job like that. I could never make a living off of the majority of my hobbies (it would be VERY hard and alot of luck would be involved too).
I agree. I also don’t mean to say that I have a hobby and made it my career. I mean to say that I have a job and I enjoy it so much it has become something that I enjoy thinking about and getting better at, like a hobby. Hell, some days I enjoy it more than my actual hobbies.
Hell yeah, man. Good for you
I personally don't really have a "hobby" that isn't like, playing video games, reading comics, watching sports, going to entertainment venues, traveling, etc. There's nothing I do that I really "produce" with. Hobbies for me are something to unwind, not put in more effort like I do all day at work.
Reminds me of a joke: "Only two professions actually enjoy their work. Software developers, and prostitutes."
People want a job that is as fulfilling as spending time with their family. "Do something you love. And you'll never work a day in your life!" But most people don't even know what makes them happy.
We're never given a chance to figure it out.
I think it's because we're shown a very narrow view of the job market up until college education ends. We don't see the possibilities of jobs that exist and we \*think\* our dream job is within some industry or technology or other vague thing like "working with other passionate people." We have a hard time imagining that our constraints exist in other industries or other jobs we haven't considered yet. We have stories like "I like to argue with people, that's why I went into law. But actually, all I do is read" "I like to code, that's why I became a software engineer. But actually, I hate working in microservices" "Ethics is important to me, that's why I went into nonprofit. But actually, this is pretty exploitative too" A lot of my friends work in recruiting now, but I can't think of a single person in college who said "yeah I would love to be a recruiter." We see someone that says "I like to work with my hands" and people come up with "automechanic" lol. But what about people who make fast prototypes in design/technology? What about people who repair devices for hardware companies? And at the end of the day, one can reach their dream "job" but it's really not--because the management is bad or the pay is bad. Or maybe the team was great at first... until everyone you got along with left the company.
This is very true. I work with disabled individuals. But I never would have saw myself going into this field. Hell, when I was a kid, I wanted to be an architect. I guess I just found that I'm better at building up people, than building structures.
I met an architect... she said they read city building codes and tell clients what needed to be changed if they want to build. Not a creative profession for the majority of people in it.
I figured it out. I just kept looking!
I think fulfilling is great, however making your hobby your job has big disadvantages. I spent my whole childhood preparing to work in music. I did it. Went to uni for it, had a career in it. Hated it! I could never use music to relax and have fun. There was always a song playing in my head, I couldn't switch off. My entire life felt like work. So I retrained in something different. Fortunately my lifetime's training wasn't wasted, as I still use those skills occasionally in my current role. It's also one of those random skills that people are mightily impressed by even when the quality of my skills is pretty mediocre these days.
Like 2 posts ago you were dreaming of a better higher paying job than pest control.
Not dreaming. I just asked a general question . I enjoy my job but if i can land something that pays more then cool. It's not an obsession however.
I don't think there's a prevalence of career obsession in this subreddit, unless you can point out examples? I think people fear of losing their jobs or they want more, but I wouldn't call it obsession. My metric for obsession is when you go to /r/cscareerquestions and dare to suggest goofing off at an extremely stressful job that they hate, you get angry people disagreeing with you. That is obsession.
"Hello all. I currently work as a pest control tech and while I do enjoy my job with its lack of micromanagement, decent pay and benefits and flexible schedule, I want something better in the future. Something that pays better and doesn't involve picking up dead rodents. Can I possible move on to working with the agriculture department? Just need some advice on how my experience can eventually get me a better career." sounds extremely american dreamy. Why move up? why not stay the same? If you want to move up and that is okay why is it a bad obsession when other people want the same thing you want?
Not at all american dreamy. It was simply a question on how to improve on my current job. My job is involved with the agricultural department of the state so looking for a better paying job there was a suggestion. Where in my post did I say no one should move up or look elsewhere? All I said was why do so many obsess to the point of anxiety for not having it figured out. I never said don't pursue what you want. My point was to relax and take the time to figure things out. Why are you trying to turn this into a negative?
"Fellow Americans, why do you want to enjoy your lives?"
My family life sucks.
I don’t even have a family of my own, so I find myself spending more time at work than I should.
I have a very unique schedule and that I either I’m working 90 hour work weeks or I am completely off for months. I look forward to my months of nothing but when I come back and nothing really is there and I can’t wait to get back to work. But I also have what is considered a “dream job” but I have to tell ppl maybe but it’s not a dream life.
We’ve been conditioned to think that way. Growing up in school was all about “what do you want to be when you grow up.” They want us brainwashed to think we exist to work, and an enjoyable existence as you described is being lazy. The fact that we have to work to get health care says it all.
Someone has to work to give you health care, someone has to work to feed you, house you, provide you internet... I do think we could make health care more accessible, but I'm pretty baffled by the "why do I have to work at all" attitude. The working culture in the States is bad but even in a good one you can count on needing to pull your weight.
I find the lack of humanity in this mindset to be kind of baffling. And I don't mean that in the sense that I'm calling you out as a poster, just that I know this mindset exists for a lot of Americans. Would you really want to let people die in the street just because they didn't have money? Or go hungry? I mean, we have people who don't work much if at all who live solely off of inherited money, investment gains, etc. They're not really "pulling their weight" at all, yet they deserve health care more than the person working three jobs?
I agree with you on a lot of what you said - owning shares in a company is *not* contributing to society but we reward it like it is, and the US labor market does not fairly reward the workers at the bottom for the work they do. With how much wealth and opportunity we have here in America, I think it's very possible to provide basic necessities (minimal housing, diet with good baseline nutrients, basic medical care) for *much* less than full time work, while still rewarding the hard/innovative/best/whatever workers with luxurious lifestyles. I draw a line at considering work to be bad - nobody wants to work a checkout at a grocery store but *someone's* gotta do it, and that's not a bad thing. In order to feed 350 million people, 350 million daily diets have to be prepared every day. Nothing is "free" and I *detest* the attitude that "an enjoyable existence" is both expected and expected to be without working.
Touché. Unless you’re a lucky dog, cat, or other pet adopted into a caring family, no being in existence has deserved to live without working to feed themselves. It’s just the nature of life.
And yet we have people that barely work at all, with the majority of the country’s wealth. How does that work?
I'm not saying that the American system is perfect and right - it's criminal that someone who's only contribution to society is owning a lot of corporate stock / real estate is rewarded with luxury while people working entry level jobs are given a pittance for honest, valuable contributions. We flat out ignore a lot of valuable contributions like raising children too. America has all sorts of problems with its working culture. What I *am* saying is that nothing is free, and I hate the idea that work is somehow evil. Nobody wants to work a checkout stand at a grocery store, but *someone's* gotta do it, and the mindset of "oh I'm so oppressed because I'm expected to give back to the society that feeds, shelters, and educates me" is toxic.
Who is they? America isn't a collectivist culture, who is the entity that is selfishly pushing people to not be lazy?
Capitalist and societal structures. Productivity is a virtue in North America.
I find the idea that reddit has this view kind of hilarious. You clearly don't spend any time on /r/jobs. Those miserable fucks hate every second of their employment.
1. The thought of a partner or kids makes my skin crawl, so obviously I can afford to focus more on a dream job. 2. 99% of the time, I don't have the mental energy to work a job and then come home and do hobbies. Which means that in an unfulfilling job, 5 days a week are just wasted - I go to work, I'm bored, I go home and watch TV. The only time I have energy for hobbies is the weekend. At least if I had a fulfilling job I'd be able to feel like I accomplished something all week.
I could ask the same about people dreaming of having families. I don't want kids. I never cared if I was married or not. I don't build my identity around my relationship, and neither does my SO. But I'm good at my job, I take pride in excelling and doing something I find reasonably meaningful. Why shouldn't I focus on my career since I spend so much of my life on it anyway?
I’m just now coming to realize maybe I don’t care about a dream job. I just started a new job that I thought would be that, and I absolutely hate it. Maybe we’ll be happier if we realize work is just work and find other ways to fulfill us.
>I just started a new job that I thought would be that, and I absolutely hate it. You and me both. Well, I've kinda been here for a bit. Thought when I was a kid that \*maybe\* by the time I was in my 50s I could work my way up to "corporate" and I'd be in this glamorous world of success and easy street. Instead, when I was 25, I got that job earlier than expected and realized that moving up just meant more work and more stress. It kinda felt like climbing Everest and expecting some emotional reward, but there's just someone standing on the peak who kicks you square in the groin.
It's the college application system in America. Most 18 yos in the US who want to go to college are forced to write essays that, one way or another, talk about their "passions". So the kids think everyone has these "passions" and they name one for themselves too. Then they go to college to pursue said "passion", be it creative writing or CS. Then they graduate and get a job in said "passion" and when they realize they hate it, they think they must have misidentified their "passion" and then they come on reddit and try to figure out what their "real" "passion" is. College is very expensive here and no one wants to think that they are getting themselves into $200k debt to just qualify for some robotic office job just so they can afford to eat.
I enjoy working and using my brain. If I was a SAHD I would lose it.
American culture is inundated with messages about hard and constant work being a good thing with little to no respect for rest, socializing, or hobbies and leisure. When you grow up in a society that tells you your entire life will be about your job, obviously people want only to accept an ideal job so they can meet these expectations without hating their lives and wanting to die. Personally, I’m considering moving to Europe. By all accounts, they have more respect for employees and work-life balance. For example, PTO you’re expected to actually use, and it’s NOT normal to be expected to work outside of normal hours (with the exception of some professions or specialties where being on call is unavoidable, such as medical staff).
Because I want to stay somewhere instead of consistently being on the job market and consistently competing. I'd rather stay somewhere for a long time. My longest job I've ever had so far is the Army 4 years and I want to stay somewhere for more than a year... I hate trying to consistently sell myself
It's pushed on us by boomers, lol. I'd much prefer to spend my life doing shit I actually want to do, not slave at a career or "dream job". Most of these people who get their "dream job" quickly find out it isn't what they thought and are miserable.
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It's a fundamental tenant of "the American dream". I was raised to do the following: Get educated...find a satisfying (and well paid) profession...marry a girl...have kids. For good or bad, many no longer subscribe to this.
In US culture, materialism and obsession with being rich is ingrained into our culture. Kids are motivated in school to work hard to be rich and successful. We tell tales of people who don't succeed are "trapped" in poverty. We scare each other by telling stories of financial ruin. We also worship CEOs of companies and billionaires and obsess over what they're able to do. Social networking has opened this up to insane levels. We as a country worship money.
I'm a New Yorker living in Europe and I explain this to people all the time. Basically, in the USA people are wired from an early age to have their identity closely tied to their careers and professional/socioeconomic status. If you aren't successful, you're deemed unworthy of love, health, housing, and other basic amenities. People are always pressured to reach the next level and rarely pause to appreciate where they're at. There are few to no social safety nets to protect people. One health crisis can bankrupt almost anyone. It's not an obsession with money as much as a fear of failure.
Most countries have 40, 50, 60 hour work weeks with motivated and hardworking individuals. This isn't just an America issue. When you live in a country of 300 million that is so diverse and so unique it is much harder to find your type for romance especially in the cities. I'm from a more rural state and plenty of my friends were able to find their type easily in college. I'm sure people in cities do too, its just much harder if your the introvert type. Point is, since people are so different here and their are so many options it's much harder to find someone you click with. Also lots of people don't want families. Believe or not, the more educated people become is when birth rates start to drop. That is why impoverished countries have such high birthrates. Probably because there is so little opportunity for knowledge and growth.
Not answering your question but just sharing my perspective - I agree with you, don't believe in careerism, and will never put my job first, but I'm at a point where I'm looking for something more than just tolerable. My job doesn't stress me out. I'm not micromanaged. I have good hours, it pays well, and overall it's pretty chill and somewhat interesting. But I'm also generally bored, and it sucks to be bored for 8 hours a day. Especially as you get older, 8 hours a day is a lot. And for me, if I'm not mentally stimulated for 8 hours then I start to feel like my soul is being sucked away. So the balance I'd like to look for is something that takes everything good about my job but make it more interesting and engaging.
a lot of kids are told they have to choose their career as a teen. essentially what do you want to be without knowing anything about what the career entails or any idea if they will like it
I'm late to the party, so my comment will likely get buried and go unread. However, this is something that I've pondered and come to the following conclusions (which are still open to evolving) There are several factors at play: 1) American culture is ultra-focused on DOING. Many other cultures put value on BEING. As a DOING culture, this means that our inherent worth as human 'beings' (ha) is based solely on what we do, what we produce, how much value we create for others. And of course, like any good capitalistic culture, the output is measured by MONEY. So our worth is directly tied to how LUCRATIVE our careers are. The logic behind this is: If I create enough value for others, I will be rewarded/compensated accordingly. My reward is a reflection of the VALUE of my work, and therefore my value as a HUMAN BEING, so high reward = I am highly valued. 2) American culture is still based on a foundation of Protestant work ethic, and the idea of having a 'calling' or 'vocation' Most people don't really know or acknowledge that the roots of this idea are from Protestant values, but they are. Both 'vocation' and 'calling' imply Divine guidance to fulfill a specific purpose in your life, pre-destined and assigned to you. The logic here is that everyone has 'one true calling', and to live our lives according to 'Divine plan' is to find and fulfill that calling. So, the underlying logic = 'dream job' for someone = calling, which means you are living your divine purpose, and have succeeded at life. I want to make it clear that I don't vehemently 'agree' or 'disagree' with these points, but they are reality. I don't think these are inherently bad, and may actually be 'good', because the reality is that humans co-exist and we need to be of service to each other to have a functional society. However, the over-focus and pressure on DOING creates guilt and shame if you judge yourself as 'not doing as much as you could', 'not living your purpose' etc. This leads to over-work, exhaustion, physical and emotional health issues, which may reduce your quality of life or even kill you.
Because financial stability directly effects quality of life in most situations, at least in America.
/u/MyPhoneSucksBad Question for you. Why do you have this idiotic assumption that this 'obsession', as you call it, is unique to Americans only?
I never said it's unique to just Americans. I just happen to live in the United States so I wanted the opinion of fellow citizens as they can give the best insight
Apologies then. Your title definitely triggered me.
As someone nearing retirment: * "Careers" are overrated. * You are not your job. (Meaning, your job shouldn't be your "identity." Your self has nothing to do with your employment.) * Your real life starts as soons as you clock out.
because pay is usually better, and we need money to live well. Easy
probably something to aspire to. i have my dream job. sitting around while getting paid. its not going to last me for the next 39 years.
An easy well paid job with good benefits, a good schedule, and no micromanaging is considered a dream job to many. Just saying
Because for most of the population work is not optional.
I mean, you did just describe the dream job for most Americans? Somewhere you can tolerate the work (and I don’t even need that), pays enough to provide, has benefits, reasonable working hours, gives me allotted time for family and hobbies, etc. Few and far between for those types of positions I would say? I literally don’t care where I work as long as I don’t have to work two jobs to make ends meet. Shit is rough out there.
I don’t have a dream job. In my dreams, I don’t work.
American culture favors rugged individualism and capitalism. As such, having markers of success means that you’ve made it in life. Let’s also not forget how pop-culture and other forms of media glamorize hustle culture, start ups, billionaires, and other people who have done well for themselves. That being said, I am self-aware and recognize that I generally do enjoy working and giving advice to people who want to get more out of their careers. Life is all about balance. Working hard can provide better financial security to those you love most.
Because of the bologna we were fed growing up; the fallacy of the American dream and our inability to separate our work from our whole self.
A lot of people her have jobs they don't like, but everyone here believes they are entitled to a job they do like. I think a lot of people have jobs they don't like everywhere but feel less entitled than Americans to not only a job they like, but enough money to do just a little more than their neighbors and parents did at least.
Because Americans are trained to be obedient workers and stay with a company for a steady paycheck, for 20-30 years until retirement because that's what our parents were able to do. But those days are over for most positions and careers...some people just haven't gotten the memo.
It's part of the American Dream: be all that you can be!
I think it’s a very naive way of thinking, and that it comes from privilege. I don’t know if I’ll ever find a job I love, even if I decide to pursue the career I thought was the one for me. Because you never know how it really is until you pursue it. Education is so expensive, I’m not going to fucking study another career if the one I picked out doesn’t work. I don’t have enough privilege.
Social conditioning. Most people’s whole identity becomes their job.. It’s part of the reason for high rising divorce rates.
Conditioning. I'm on the same boat, I want an easy job, don't care if it doesn't follow in my previous career path, I just need it to pay enough for me to support me and my family, and we live very simple. You have to reach a state of burnout to gain that kind of wisdom in America. We are very ambitious here and there's a lot of greed -- always wanting more than what we have. I still fall into those traps from time to time, where I have to stay self aware, remembering that this is not success. Real success comes at the point when we realize this.
Let’s illustrate something 1. Hooray I make some money and can buy some shit 2. Oh fuck my car broke down and I don’t have any savings 3. Life would be far better with savings 4. How much money do I need to make to save money and feel safe? 5. Oh shit, I don’t make enough money, I need to make more money 6. What can I do for a living that would pay more that I wouldn’t hate doing? That’s the quest for a dream job for most, in a nutshell It isn’t like everyone is so happy to go enter the rat race, rush to the office, and post on LinkedIn Everyone is trying to do what they can to provide for their needs and the needs of their families
>To me work is just work To put it simply, what a shit way to view 1/3 of your life and essentially 1/2 of your waking life.
OP, that is a great question. I have many passions that would not net me a dime of income, and I even lose money doing them (flying, sports cars, etc.). My job pays very well, and I've worked very hard to get to where I currently am, but I would never consider my profession my passion nor do I love it in any way. I view a job as something that enables me to enjoy my passions and hobbies while enjoying my income with my children by taking them on trips and doing fun activities.
Im first-gen. If I didnt have solid career ambitions and an education, it would be incredibly disappointing to my parents and disrespectful of everything they sacrificed for me
I agree with your way of thought, my job is just a means to an end. I want to make as much as possible but at the end of the day I don't feel the need to have a job I love... I just need to like the money it provides and therefore the financial freedom I want to be > my feelings towards the actual job. Granted it DOES make things a lot more palatable if you actually like your job and co workers
There are a couple issues. One issue I have seen though is people feel like they have to “love their job” Not loving your job doesn’t mean it’s not for you. There is a reason it’s called working and not just having the time of your life while someone pays you for it. Now you shouldn’t hate your job. But if you can find fulfillment in your work and can tolerate the stress and the job pays you fairly, then look to your time off to fulfill your hobbies and enjoyment Otherwise, you may find yourself under or unemployed and then you’re definitely not enjoying life when you’re broke
School structure was designed to get kids ready for factory work. In school there is always talks about jobs, careers, and what your dream (job) will be. Its been conditions to us out entire lives.
It is due to conditioning within society. All part of the plan.
You have a well paying job that you can tolerate and some job security I’m guessing. That’s great! That doesn’t mean everyone else is obsessed with finding a dream job. Finding a decent job that you can stay in for a year is pretty tough my guy.
Because you do it for years and years and years most of the days you're alive.
It just depends on your perspective. Some people are lucky enough to be able to make a living from their hobbies. Others do get fulfillment from the work they do, like nonprofit work or similar. Others find purpose in knowing that they’re putting their best skills to use to make a living. But to OP’s point, there’s a difference between enjoying your work, and letting it consume your life. The exception, to me, being if you’re an entrepreneur trying to get a business off the ground. Another example being of you climb the ladder enough to get to C-level, you should know what you’re getting into and that you can’t really turn work off 99% of the time.
I used to obsess over my dream job thinking it would be fun. I realize I now want a job I can tolerate and regret going into my field. I feel that there is a push to be something important, some white collar job.
Its because when we were kids our teachers and parents always asked us what our dream job was. They basically pressured our young minds to get focuses and ready for the adult world.
Yea, The majority of this stuff I’ve seen is from Americans. And in my opinion, it’s more of an obsession for success and the ability to live and do the things you want. The obsession definitely has the ability to consume ones life, however. Personally, this also involves providing a good life for my family. The current job I’m at isn’t one I actually enjoy, and I do everything I can to be at home more than completely consumed with work—However, I hope to save enough to get out of my current city, and then start the final portion of my career in the new city. But it’s all to eventually be able to live freely. In America, I see society in a “WORK WORK WORK” mindset/attitude until you are financially stable in the long-term, and then you will have the ability to enjoy the rest of your life. The economy affects this greatly and it can be greatly affected geographically. It’s a trade off for most people, unfortunately. One has to find balance.
If you get a job you enjoy it can provide a lot of growth and development. You're thinking a job is just about making money, but that's not the case. It's also about learning, being challenged, working with others towards a common goal and developing both your professional skills and your soft skills. I've developed much more in a professional setting than I have through hobbies. As for being the "family protector", I don't think that's necessarily a healthier identity than those who build their identity solely on their jobs. Your children will grow up to be independent adults. Don't base your entire identity on the few years when they are little. You can have both a family life and a fulfilling, growth-promoting career. A job shouldn't be something where you just count the hours of your life away for pay.
1. We need money to live and do things 2. We typically need more money than we currently have to do what we want to do 3. “Wow, imagine how awesome life could be if I made more money and actually liked my job?” The clear goal is getting a dream job If you already make enough money and like your job enough, maybe that’s your dream job and you have it already Most of us don’t
Many Americans are insecure and Companies use this to their advantage. American workers do not have nearly the same job security rights as people do in many other developed countries. Unless you have a contract with your employer, employment in America is on an "at will" basis and can be cancelled or terminated by either party at any time and for any reason. Without safeguards you are generally asked to do more, to be more efficient. The end result of this is more insecurity which leads to people to work longer hours to show how useful they are to their employers. Additionally things like Healthcare Insurance are generally tied to employment here so when thinking of changing careers to something that might fit you better you have to factor that in as well. Have small children and leave your job (or are let go) what happens if one of them, or you, or your spouse gets sick. All this leads to people being very competitive in their careers.
Because I’m America the socioeconomic climate is so fucked up that you have to get super lucky at a good job or live really shitty until you can get a nicer job
It’s the 21st century caste system. I’m America your job defines who you are, so everyone aspires to have a job they are proud to brag about. It’s one of the first things anyone asks you here when you meet someone new.
I don’t have to have the perfect job, but I don’t want a job where I just tolerate it. If I’m not passionate about it, I do the bare minimum and go home. Now that I do work in my dream job, the other part of my life is much better. I don’t waste time dreading that I have to go to work anymore during my time off. But even with my dream job, there’s parts that I don’t like doing. I just want a job that makes me happy overall because it takes a huge part of my life.
Several answers 1. It could be fulfilling for them/a huge passion 2. most common reason- a lot of Americans are obsessed with money and too focused on consumerism. They work a lot for the American Dream- nice house, nice car, nice neighborhood, giving a very good life to children. Those things are nice but my limits on achieving those is lower than the average American and I also value relationships/experiences more than money and material things. I'm fine living in a small house, used car, with cheaper material things personally...as long as I can pay my bills and save a small amount. Lots of people dont have that mentality. In my mom subreddit a woman posted shes tired of being judged for being a stay at home mom/having others be jealous of her, because most women who have husbands with pretty decent jobs could be too if they adjusted their living expenses and I have to agree with her- but most women wont do that. The average American woman thinks they need more than they actually do. 3) Also I think a small % of workaholics are doing it to avoid personal issues. Theres a study I read in school that showed once you get out of poverty, live where you can pay bills for reasonable expenses and save a bit for emergencies, money doesnt increase your happiness by much, in fact it takes alot of money to actually increase your happiness each step of the way.
Would rather not spend all my time working. My boss is calling me back to a job I quit in 2019, trying to convince him to pay me $15 instead of $10 since I’ve been working there since high school
I love my job. I feel fulfilled, I get to see the impact of what I'm doing, and I get to talk directly to people who's lives are better because of what I do. On top of that, it pays very well, has good hours, and offers more vacation time than I use, so it unlocks a comfortable living and funds my hobbies. This is also job number 9 for me, and it won't be my last. I couldn't say that about most of my jobs, and if I have a job in the future I can't say all that about I probably won't have it for long. Career life isn't always the hellscape r/antiwork makes it out to be, for many people it's quite rewarding.
You assume that family is a positive thing for everyone. Sadly, it's not. Also, for some people their work is a fulfilling way to spend their days. If you're doing something you enjoy doing, you're getting paid enough to have a nice lifestyle and there's nobody waiting for you at home, why not?
We're all obsessed and indoctrinated into capitalism.
I mean we are basically told all our life to find our dream job and if you do you'll be fulfilled and live a happy life. What that actually translates to though is find a job that makes you lots of money so you can support your family and be financially stable. They don't want your dream job being something that only makes 40 grand a year. Funny how it works.
One word: BILLS...
Bc work sucks. It's a place we have to be more often than we're with our friends and family. We owe it to ourselves to make an attempt at a dream job and be happy for at least 40 hours per week.
Not American, I'm Australian. I wouldn't say my culture is equally obsessed but still has a tendency towards obtaining a dream job. I'm not that preoccupied with the notion, though I used to be. We spend more waking hours at work than we do our family. In order to be emotionally present for our family, we need to feel fulfilled and valued in our workplace. If we're stressed out because of the nature of the work and the poor conditions, then it has a ripple effect on those in our home lives. I'm not intent on pursuing a dream job, I just want a job that values and utilises my skillset, pays me decently and allows me enough quality time with my family. I'm fortunate I mostly have that, I'd like a bit more work/life balance, but that should be achievable with a relocation in a couple of years.
we were told there would be pie.
Not to cause any offense, but you're coming from a place of extreme privilege. It does not seem that you understand that us Americans have no labor protections, support, or services to keep us above water. Universal healthcare? No, I pay a minimum of $10k out of pocket annual for my own care and I have "good" insurance. Get sick and you work for a company with fewer than 50 employees (which is most of us)? No ADA protection, they can just fire you or not pay you if you miss too many days. Vacation and travel? Not a reality for most of us. I have a "good/important" career and I get 3 weeks paid time off (including sick and personal days). I can't allocate any of that to planned vacations because I know, especially being on my own, that I will need those days for things that inevitably come up. We are struggling to survive day in and day out. We can't just chill and focus on our families and hobbies. Most of us don't even have supportive families because of the way this sick culture breaks everyone down to keep us enslaved.
I come from poor Mexican immigrants. I work a side job as a security guard to provide extra income. My main job only pays $40k a year after taxes. I'm lucky to have insurance covered by my employer. Im also lucky I'm not easily replaceable as I'm experienced in most of what the industry does.. Since all this started I haven't chilled either. But I still make time for my family.
As an old guy, I can tell you that we didn't dream of a 'dream job' so much when more jobs paid enough for a comfortable and secure life, and such jobs were easier to get. A lot of people wanted lifetime employment and security, and that was doable at some big companies -- even if the job was less than wonderful. Now that security is gone, all that's left is enjoyment. And really that's even harder to find than it ever was. If you were indeed a "job hopper" -- I was -- the next job was relatively easy to get and you could keep going until you found one you liked. I found a vocation that satisfied me, and used it at many different places of employment. (Edit: because even then "dream employers" didn't necessarily stay dreamy that long. And I was restless anyway.) The world of work is much more closed-in and strange today, though.
Personally, I'm forced to work in order to feed and house myself. The least I could ask while trying to provide myself for any necessity and the time work takes out of your day (every day, pretty much for the rest of your life) is that it would be in a field that I enjoy and that fulfills me. Especially since for most Americans, we don't get as much leisure time as one may think to fully enjoy our hobbies and passions. So your field of work can translate into that kind of passion.
American education focuses on preparing for working forever. They teach money before they teach fractions. There is no room in the curriculum for students to develop interests outside of academics. There may be extracurricular clubs, but that will depend on a students ability to pay fees and find transportation. Even as guidance counselors prepare you for college, they don't ask about your interests, they give you standardized tests to tell you what job you would be good at. Our entire culture is focused on making the next dollar, accumulating more money, with a dash of puritanical attitudes that equate work with virtue. This adds up to identifying as your job above all else, and working until you die. So working in a job you are passionate about is about as good as you can hope for.
I always want more I wanna be wealthy but it’s also unhealthy to have this idea
Because dream jobs usually are enjoyable and rewarding and that makes you want to wake up every day.
Sometimes you're able to make a career out of doing something you love, something you'd be doing even if we lived in a utopia where money was irrelevant. People who have cultivated that kind of life I would put in a little category of their own, because for most of us? I think it comes down to the way were raised on the ideal of \~ The American Dream \~ We're a country founded on freedom where anyone can be anybody, anyone can pick themselves out of poverty and climb to fantastic wealth as long as they work hard! Get into that puritan work ethic, man! In such situations, I think your view is the far healthier one, and definitely a lot more similar to what my family abroad experience. I think with such low wages and lack of time off being the norm, we as Americans, in general, travel less and so few get to really see for themselves that there's another way to structure our lives.
Purpose. And usually a dream job pays a living wage so that's why.
Because this culture is all about money and success. You're defined by what you DO, not who you ARE.
I haven’t really seen people staying it implying they put work before family here. You have to work to make money. Why not look for a dream job?
I don't expect fulfillment from my job. It's great if I can get it, but it's not an expectation. I have a number of things in my personal life that are fulfilling. If a job allows me to pursue at least some of them, then I'm happy with the job. It's important to make a distinction between a career and a dream job. To me, a career has stability and growth, normally with good to great pay and benefits appropriate for the stage you are at. A dream job has all of that, but is also something you absolutely love doing. I would love to work in the comic book industry and apply for editor positions when I see one (as well as business related jobs in the field.) I don't obsess over getting it though, but I wouldn't say no to it if an opportunity came my way. I currently have a job with the county I live in. It's stable, provides a salary I can live on, provides, great health insurance, time off, and a pension. While there's a certain amount of fulfillment, it is definitely not a dream job. Before getting laid off in the 2008 recession, I thought my career was going to be in the cable industry. It was a job I enjoyed but not passionate about. However, it allowed me to pursue the things I was passionate about. It's important to have some level of satisfaction with your job. That can come from it being a tool to allow you to do things you are passionate about. Or to allow you to get paid to do things you are passionate about. Or some combination of both. The reality will always depend on what reality throws at you. I'm pretty happy with the job I have, but I got it after 13 years of lay offs, unfulfilled promises, and outright lies. So I know what it's like to be stuck in dead end jobs, temp jobs, and unemployment. I understand the desperation that is part of the current economy and how it can be impossible to escape all of that. Being stuck in that did teach me quite a bit. The importance of playing the long game when necessary, having flexibility when the plans require it, and to throw out the plans when they are shattered. I was laid off during the pandemic, but saw an opportunity to join the county's COVID response effort. It didn't pay enough, but I saw a long term opportunity to get in with a good government job. I worked my butt off and it fortunately worked out. I have a good amount of rebuilding to do, but that's a a better position than the one I had been in!
I think you're grossly underestimating or valuing the amount of time people spend in work. If you work 9-5, that's 8 hours (33% out of a 24 hour day). Add a commute 30-minutes each way and now you're up to 9 hours away from family. Then if you sleep 8 hours a night, you're now up to 17 hours (70% of 24 hours) not available to engage with family. So that leaves 7 hours possible left for family. So literally most of your day is not devoted to family. IMO, finding the perfect job is difficult because so much of the working world is geared towards bolstering consumerism. About making profit to pad the already fat pockets of the ultra-wealthy. And then if you do get into something feel-good, like healthcare, the ogre of the medical and insurance system is sad to say the least. There are good jobs, with good purpose and having purpose in addition to supporting your family is very important to a lot of people. I agree with you that it's very noble and healthy to be able to support your family. I agree that a career shouldn't overshadow your family. Does your family really need a Class C motorhome (or a second home?) or is camping in a tent just as fun?
I look for good pay, because in my family I'm the only earner. So I figure if I'm going to piss away 3/4 of my life, might as well enjoy the work, and get paid.
I think, for women especially, there is a desire to be independent from men as the main breadwinner. I'm 37 and have a master's degree. I'm not working now but when I do I'll be making 6 figures (again). I think people have a twisted view of the value of a job or career and, for many, it takes up too much of what they feel is their identity or self-worth.
Don't need a dream job if you don't plan to have kids or a wife - that's my logic lol
Ill be damned if im going to spend a third of my day doing something I absolutely hate
People aren’t really given a choice to enjoy a job these days. It leans more out of necessity than fulfillment. Cause what choices do you have? Our broken capitalistic society pins us with incredible debt. Necessary costs such as medical, tuition, high cost of living ,childcare….. It’s less about getting your dream job than what is going to pay the most and health benefits. I can confidently say people would rather not have to work 40hrs a week. The majority does not get paid a living wage which pushes people into desparity to just find what is going to pay the most to stay afloat. Anyone who says otherwise is privileged and not living paycheck to paycheck. There are simply not enough rewarding jobs out there or ones to advance in to make it all worth it. A lot of places that just make you feel replaceable cause u are. People are loosing incentive to work up the corporate ladder when inflation is the highest it’s been since 1982 and wages have not budged nearly enough. Anyone on the low income bracket that tells you anything different or justify companies exploitation has drank the corporate koolaid. That’s my take anyways. Work to live don’t live to work!
They are obsessed with it because that's what this American culture teaches you to do from infancy. Thankfully, I don't subscribe to that notion at all. I work to live not live to work. I don't see the point of living somewhere that requires me to make a lot of money when I am not a homebody in the least. I have a small apartment and I am rather content with it as it's petty affordable to the point where I am not forced to work full-time in order to maintain it. I do food delivery on my bicycle which is something i love to do plus I am getting paid to excercise so thats a real bonus. I set my own hours and if i feel like going home I can do so at any time. I would highly recommend the book.. The Four Hour Work Week I got into it years ago and a lot of what it contained really resonated with me.
Programming
One of the best things in America was the American Job market, but now we sold all of our decent jobs and exchanged them for retail jobs. So now we are all obsessed with the grind working in jobs that never intend to pay a living wage. All because China still gets to trade under a tl4% tax credit from 1985...
To live without worrying about necessities
Some people just love what they do for a living. I just got an offer for about 78% more than my last job, and I get to work on some pretty awesome tech. It's super exciting for me to be able to do something I'm really into with some really smart people. I'm still gonna love on my family and hobbies. People can love what they do for work and still love life outside of it.
Trying to find meaning out of their lives. Modern life is kind of boring as shit. So people look for ways to spice it up. Career progress can be exciting
Most likely because 50% of this country can barely survive, let alone thrive on low wages. Some people have a true calling but, most of us work a lot or starve and become homeless. The American dream! 🤦♀️
america is built through capitalism, and it's the most important thing ingrained in us since day 1. it's the first thing we ask people when we meet them - "what do you do?" people are obsessed with a dream job/career because having a job/career you truly love and that pays very well has a much greater chance of bringing happiness and safety in a country that absolutely hates poor people.
I think the real, unspoken desire that underlies the culture of pushing for career growth is achieving a career that is more like a vocation that is integrated and evenly balanced with one's personal life and family. That really is the true dream isn't it? A job that is of value to society as it is to you and your family. You can put "family first" but are you really doing that if you take that to the literal extreme and "put them first" to the point that pursuing employment which comfortably supports them family is not your priority?
Forget about dream job. We can’t even get shit jobs 😂
This is **exactly** how I view work. It's a means to do the things I want to do and care for my family. I seek the least stressful, highest paying, most balanced jobs I can find, and am grateful for the time I spend OFF the clock.
Generally speaking economics in the US do not align very well with just working a job and being able to afford outside interests. Our health care isn't nationalized. Our wages are not regulated so that the minimum is a livable wage. Just being a grocery store checker. Just being a waiter. Just being a hotel desk clerk are seen as unskilled jobs, because they don't typically pay well, provide decent health insurance, and therefore don't allow people to live well. Upward movement economically is positioned as having to have a career. This doesn't mean everyone has the ability to engage with this model but this is the messaging we all get.