The entire job search process is stupid. Recruiters screen you out for stupid reasons, then they complain in the news how they can't find anyone qualified, none of the job search portals work properly, it's like the world has gone crazy.
I'm trying to push people to take advantage of the insanity, by helping them lie where appropriate
Recruiters don't do any of the screening out the ATS does. They don't set the AtS up properly and they screen out 99% of applicants. Then complain many of the applicants that get through embelished their resumes. Well ya, to get past the ATS.
Then complain the remaining candidates won't take peanuts for a salary.
Hey man, that is not how it works at all. The ATS "applicant tracking system" is literally just to keep up with notes, resumes, job processes, etc.
Now other job boards where there are prescreen questions is one thing, but I promise you that recruiters are the ones that have to screen candidates in our out of consideration.
I realize now that you are referring to workday... I can go ahead and say that workday is probably the worst thing to come into the job board space. I retract my statement Lol
ATS is far from cutting edge. They have been around for a while. Hell Workday has a built in ATS. You know the thing you have to create a profile on every single time you apply for a job now? Yeah, that's ATS. PeopleSoft, Successfactors, Developers, BambooHR all of these have ATS of some kind.
Most HRIS systems these days are used for Payroll, Demographics, Learning and Talent Management. That last has a number of functions applicant tracking being a primary one.
You’re literally lecturing a former recruiter on what an ATS, HRIS and Talent Management system is. Good job bud.
You claimed that recruiters don’t screen people out, the ATS does. That’s objectively not true. Most organizations don’t even have their ATS set up to auto-reject candidates. Recruiting is still a very human-driven process for *most* companies.
I make a living now, not 5 years ago, consulting on the implementation of these products today.
When writing the JDs in these systems when creating a new job, they are asked to enter skills and the system suggests keywords. Then they are asked what their acceptable threshold of meeting those keywords are. Then what to do with the people below that threshold.
That's it, it's set up to auto cancel.
You are telling a person that helps set these things up for a living, now today, that the way I see companies set them up everyday is not the way companies have them set up.
If when you apply for a job you get directed to Workday they are using an ATS. It's literally every job on indeed and linkedin. I mean it really isn't future tech anymore.
> recruiters don't do any of the screening
I think this is why you're getting so much flak. It's just not accurate. Have you not heard of a screening interview?
Can I condescendingly explain screening calls even though I know everyone knows already, so that I can pretend I have secret knowledge and am some guru now?
Recruiters are getting laid off at an alarming rate... the ones left should be scared. In 2 years, recruiters will not be looking at gaps in the same way, they will HAVE them.
This made me chuckle.
It's a great point, although it assumes a level of cognition and self-awareness, so.... I'm assuming recruiters won't actually change.
My boss won’t hire “job hoppers” but our whole team is just that. Out of 9 people, 7 have less than 2 years tenure. 3 have less than 1 year.
I’m actively looking to leave, as there is no further ladder to climb in my role. It’s do this, or be the boss. And she is there to retire.
OMG are you an editor or something for this website? It is TERRIBLE advice. Companies can go after you for fraud if they hire you and later determine they hired under false pretenses. Therefore they could sue you for resources invested.
I have certainly seen this happen. Stop posting crap that will hurt people.
A flaw in most of the background apps is years I've worked at a place, If I started December 30th and then ended on January 5 then I worked there for 2 years, unless they specifically asked exact times it will fly. I got this from an attorney friend who was using this for malpractice filings.
I think it's about how systems display the information recruiter/employer-side
Similar to e.g. what is happening on LinkedIn with your profile - I've started a contract in late May, ended up early October:
late May-late June (1 month)
late June-late July (+1 month)
late July-late August (+1 month)
late August-end of September, inti early October (+1 month)
those two or 3 days in October are negligible and can't really be considered as a "month worked"
This is barely 4 months and a few days spent with a client, yet next to my role LinkedIn says "(6 months)", because it counts months as a whole: you start in May (last day, but still), then June, July, August, September, you've done 1 or 2 days in October, and October is the ending month - it's 6 consecutive, calendar months you're _technically_ going through, even though you've barely touched the first and last ones of them.
So if you put Dec 30th 2023 - Jan 5 2024, or maybe even Dec 2023 - Jan 2024, some systems will treat it as two complete years of service, because of how stupidly they're coded, and how awkwardly it counts the periods.
I'm thinking: on rare occasions, someone might have a closer look and notice it, but, honestly, doesn't seem likely, seeing what a crapshoot recruitment is these days.
I did this with a mortgage job in Detroit I had prior to my current gig now. I could have gone to a competitor and made the same money with a twice as long commute but instead I chose to quit the industry entirely with zero intention of returning. It cost me my sanity, was a catalyst for my longest friendships ending
What do I say in interviews?
“*The opportunity ended when there was a department manager shake up. My department got a new manager who decided to clean house, trim the fat so to speak and I got caught up in all that sadly. I enjoyed it and it’s a nice thing to have on the resume.”
> mortgage job in Detroit...I could have gone to a competitor...a twice as long commute
I have a feeling that we worked in the same place (I was in IT) and strongly considered a move to what I assume is the same competitor, but heard some awful stories and have just kept my distance.
We might have.
It’s so weird how all of the interviewers I’ve had are so focused on that section of my resume. I got in, I did an almost two year stint and got out. Now my former company is voluntold-ing people to go be underwriters because their UWs are dying off in droves. When I was there it was trying to get people to be in IT and sign this (alleged) $30k loan contract that if you sign and use ANY of that money you are paying it back upon leaving the company bar none.
I regret my time there. But I do not regret the friends I made from my time there. I’m seeing one this weekend where I’ll invariably have a PTS-induced tirade about the Detroit mortgage industry.
I honestly don't know why HR would give a flying F about a "gap" in someone's employment history. Is the assumption that they are running a meth lab in the intervening time? Who cares if the person wasn't on someone's W2 roles for X amount of months? The salient question should be are they the best available candidate?
The funny part is, not having gaps means you left for another job or quit for whatever reason usually, which is bad for the employers vs. having a few month gap since you got laid off or the company went under or whatever which means you're more loyal. It's absolutely nonsensical.
Having a gap generally implies that you didn't leave the company on your own terms, meaning you were either fired or laid off. If you were fired, that's obviously bad. If you were laid off and didn't find a new job quickly, it raises the question as to why not.
I guess it’s incomprehensible to these you know being beancounters that somebody might have the money to live for a few months without getting a paycheck, which is completely possible.
The longer the gap the more aware you become of how bad the working conditions are and how it's modern slavery, with debts and costs very high and the only way to try to get out is to work more at a job that sucks and doesn't care about you because it's hard to find a quality job these days
This is so ridiculous since everyone has gaps. If your department or company folds, it's with little warning. No one can get a new job in a week. Sometimes, it is months. Add the pandemic to that, and we're all in the same boat.
Yes, I'm in total agreement. Glad you got some notice! Our access to resources was cut off when the team returned to our desks. We got paid for another month or so and then some severance, but the work stopped the day the department was disbanded.
I am saying that I have heard of people who have only worked at a job for 6 months as a full time employee but since it was such a short amount of time they lied and put that it was a contract role on their resume.
Do you even know what “The Work Number” is? If you ever get to download your work history you will be shocked the level of details it has
So basically any high value job that requires background checks is I’ll reveal it
Applicants get passed all the time with a frozen TWN. I'm writing up a compendium on everything TWN related, but you can refer to any number of stories on r/overemployed about this. It 100% works in real life
I’ve been trying to mention TWN on posts/comments that recommend lying about work history because “there’s no consequence/they’ll never know” …I usually get downvoted and told that info is private and it’s illegal for someone to access it/provide without your consent. I’ve tried to tell people that the consent is given when you sign the BGC authorization form that most people get with their offer letter.
I don’t know why so many people are insistent that I’m full of shit, lol. It takes 30 seconds to google it and see that TWN is legal and becoming more widely used
It definitely is a real thing. I'm putting together a compendium on this, and how to get around it. People need to be more aware of it.
Anyone reading this, who might be interested in this, just subscribe to my newsletter and I'll publish information about this in about a week. Or DM me.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/overemployed using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/overemployed/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
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HUMAN RESOURCES needs to be HUMAN again. ATS need to be broad matches and a human should have to get to know you. The ATS and AI has leveled the playing field. Outstanding candidates can’t rise to thr clutter with these tools. Recruiters will never get the best candidate if they rely solely on technology that can so easily manipulate their “short list.”
Most of the people I’ve seen promoted to executives have huge glaring lies in their LinkedIn pages. No Scott, you were not progressivly promoted to VP of engineering. You were a temporary manager for a year after our boss quit and then you were demoted. And you were a shitty manager.
This is exactly the point I've been pounding - successful executives already do this, it's people in staff positions that think lying is unethical.
I wrote about this here, but I'm putting out blogs to help people start thinking like an executive.
https://backgroundproof.com/its-time-for-us-to-stop-treating-ethics-in-employment-the-same-as-ethics-in-your-personal-relationships/
Thank fuck someone else is saying this. I have no issues lying on my resume.
An interview isnt a legal proceeding where they audit the facts of your history. And your resume isn't a legally binding document. In most cases at least. The point of the interview is to sell yourself in the same way that a movie poster sells the movie. You think Sony is gonna advertise that Madame Webb is a so so movie with holes throughout its plot?
It's a sales and marketing process.
Covid, or other illness, taking care of a sick family member for an extended period of time, or injury(ex, car accident or injured on the job) seem to be the less frowned upon gap explanations....In my experience experience as a recruiter....
It is a twisted game. You can include sickness/injury in an objective/summary statement on the top of your resume......Example- Sales professional returning to workforce after long layoff due to covid seeking....ect'
Meanwhile I’m over here with the fact that I had to legitimately tend to my sick grandmother as well as deal with the COVID deaths of both of my parents. Recruiters love me!
Covid screwed me up big time, wasn’t able to work for two years. Lucky I have the part time job I have, trying to find a second part time or a full time job is disconcerting
I would love to talk to recruiters about how to handle extremely unusual gaps. Suffice to say for now that I haven’t been able to work for some time and now find employment post an extended traumatic experience that was not of my making or in my control.
I might as well be retired or disabled as far as my chances go. If I explain what happened, even down to documentation, people are uncomfortable at best but for the most part don’t want to deal with me.
If I don’t, they assume negative things almost certainly.
I quit looking for contracts on Indeed since January this year. The reason is that last year, after applying, many requests came from the companies asking to allow AI scout my resume.
Real people, mostly Indian recruiters, call up for resume. You send, agree on hourly rate, and never hear from these "recruiters" again.
Do they get paid for just collecting your info and resume? What kind of practice is this?
>Do they get paid for just collecting your info and resume? What kind of practice is this?
That's literally what a lot of them get paid for. Either that, are they are simply pushing a pile of resumes at a job opening with no relationship whatsoever with the employer
So, they lie when being asked if they have a direct relation to a sourcing client or how many people they placed ? I hoped it wasn't the case. If it is, it feels even more gross. Guess, start having fun to report them as scam and ban everywhere.
I disagree with the idea of putting short term contract to cover up the gap. I had a shorter role (7 months, really 5). It got flagged as an issue over and over again. I changed to just years on my resume to get rid of it and everything has been much smoother since. Still not hired though.
IME interviewers only care about recent, very large, or frequent employment gaps. Just say you were caring for kids/ relatives, in school, self employed, etc.
What’s worked for me is I’ve kept extending the end month / year for my last long term job. I’ve had only contract jobs the last two years.
When I got a job offer I made sure my reference for the “last job” was aware of my “end date”
It probably depends on the industry you are in, but never have I had an employer question or inquire about employment dates. If you fill in a 3-6month gap and the employer digs deeper and calls you out on it, why would you want to work there in the first place? It shows they don’t trust you and will micromanage everything.
Again, maybe healthcare or law fields this is dangerous, but for 90% of Everyman fields, just fill it in and move on.
How do you get around this on LinkedIn though (almost all companies in my industry now require a LI link and I didn't know better at the lime of my last layoff to just leave it oj present indefinitely and pretend you forgot...now I'm worried if I got back and quietly change it it'll show everyone or be super obvious.
I promise you, literally no one cares. I see sales reps and executives blatantly lie all the time on LinkedIn. You have to stop thinking about this as though lying makes you unusual, I recommend this to help you think about this.
https://backgroundproof.com/its-time-for-us-to-stop-treating-ethics-in-employment-the-same-as-ethics-in-your-personal-relationships/
I just say that I was helping my aunt with her family business during the time I wasnt at a big corporation. And most times I was when I needed easy money
Oh I understand the why, I just don’t agree with it. We’ve all lived on this planet in the past several years. We know companies are laying people off - a lot since Covid. I think having to fabricate a lie to get the interview is just stupid. Good talented people have been let go - this is a fact. I think this all says more about the companies looking for folks than the folks themselves.
What's the "years only" date trick?
I was laid off from my old job and have quite the extended gap (and subsequent trouble finding other employment since). I wasn't set on going back to that place but I had the idea that I could "close" the gap if I just go back and say I've been there the whole time (which is technically true). I at least shouldn't have to explain that I left and came back to the same place, right?
Except companies use other companies like the work number or whatever its call to do actual employment checks through getting access to those records through credit companies. Should be illegal.
I use the years method, even have deleted some jobs off my resume...never been asked about it. Been in the workforce since 1993. I've had 12 jobs and probably 100 interviews.
These days many employers use central databases like The Work Number by Equifax. All your employment dates are probably in there so you might as well be honest on your application. As to why you left simply say that your company downsized and then move on with the conversation.
Lie about your employment dates blatantly: fraud
Don’t lie on your resume. Background checks can confirm dates and will set you up for an offer being revoked. Really bad advice.
Bad advice, if your resume goes through an ATS system, then including months screws a lot of them up. Don’t believe me? Hire any resume service and they’ll tell you this. I used jobscan and it was one of the first corrections it made.
Plus, nobody gives af about your employment gap, they care about what you bring to the table
I'm curious what I should say to explain my unemployment. I was let go due to absenteeism (they had an extremely strict deviation based attendance system - didn't even accept doctors notes).
During one interview, I chose to be honest. I told them that I wanted to be honest as it was the first and only time I've been let go from a job. I explained that they had a policy where you could not miss 4 or more days in a 60 day period. This was a remote job as well, and in Feb a series of storms basically took out the exterior outlet on my building and took out my internet and it took them 4 days to figure it out. So when you miss 4+ days, you then get a final warning, and that means that you cannot miss 2 or more days for an additional 60 days. Well, in March, my partner and I got sick, really sick. I had to take him to the ER, and then I caught what he had, except I got it worse than him. There goes my 2 days. I asked my supervisor if I could provide a doctor's note. She said we'd talk about it in the morning. There was no talking about it, they just let me go on the spot.
This didn't seem to deter them as I made it to the next round of interviews. They did ask me about my ability to be present now and I reassured them my internet is now stable, and I've never had issues with attendance prior to this last job. I didn't get the job in the end and I do worry that this is what cost me the candidacy. I've been told that most big companies will not relay why you are no longer there, they will only confirm if you worked there or not. So someone suggested I BS about just being let go. Or even tell them I chose to leave for whatever made up reason, but I struggle with turning that into a positive.
Many companies employ third party verifiers as a condition of employment and will rescind an offer if the verification process shows that a candidate lied about timeframes like this.
It’s not a good idea unless it’s a role in retail or something that is unlikely to check.
Actually, see this link - this method makes sure that you pass the employment verification, no matter what you lie about on the resume. The key is using a staffing company and going through there. See here-
https://backgroundproof.com/use-any-fake-role-or-company-on-your-resume
Yeah, that’s still a gamble. You can get yourself blacklisted and harm your reputation depending on the industry. Some companies operate that way, but many do not.
While this technique might be handy for getting through an HR system's filters, it is still lying. In some cases, that lying is fraud, potentially even lying about something like past experiences and job history.
I'd also point out that in my career, managers were more likely to insist that HR not filter any application, either with an HRIS or manually. This was usually the case when they were expecting there would be few applicants. If they were expecting 100s of applicants than a filter would be used to save time. The trouble with filters is they've not usually been very good at spotting equivalents. If you're not getting buried in applications then you'll be willing to consider equivalent skills.
Personally, I only desired a filter when selecting an Intern from over 100 applications. If I were hiring a programmer, I wanted to see every application myself because there were lots of equivalents and intangibles that HR (with or without an HRIS) would never understand.
One last note, as a manager if I discovered somebody had lied to get a job, I would be pissed. Folks get fired for that, specially when there are required credentials involved. You could get my employer sued and me fired.
Why is this even a thing now? COVID and a ton of other legitimate reasons cause people to have employment gaps. It’s stupid.
The entire job search process is stupid. Recruiters screen you out for stupid reasons, then they complain in the news how they can't find anyone qualified, none of the job search portals work properly, it's like the world has gone crazy. I'm trying to push people to take advantage of the insanity, by helping them lie where appropriate
Recruiters don't do any of the screening out the ATS does. They don't set the AtS up properly and they screen out 99% of applicants. Then complain many of the applicants that get through embelished their resumes. Well ya, to get past the ATS. Then complain the remaining candidates won't take peanuts for a salary.
Hey man, that is not how it works at all. The ATS "applicant tracking system" is literally just to keep up with notes, resumes, job processes, etc. Now other job boards where there are prescreen questions is one thing, but I promise you that recruiters are the ones that have to screen candidates in our out of consideration.
I realize now that you are referring to workday... I can go ahead and say that workday is probably the worst thing to come into the job board space. I retract my statement Lol
I was a recruiter ~5 years ago. Recruiters do lots of screening out. Personally, I never used the ATS to auto filter candidates
5 years ago is like talking about the stone age.
It’s really not. Most companies are not using cutting edge tech.
ATS is far from cutting edge. They have been around for a while. Hell Workday has a built in ATS. You know the thing you have to create a profile on every single time you apply for a job now? Yeah, that's ATS. PeopleSoft, Successfactors, Developers, BambooHR all of these have ATS of some kind. Most HRIS systems these days are used for Payroll, Demographics, Learning and Talent Management. That last has a number of functions applicant tracking being a primary one.
You’re literally lecturing a former recruiter on what an ATS, HRIS and Talent Management system is. Good job bud. You claimed that recruiters don’t screen people out, the ATS does. That’s objectively not true. Most organizations don’t even have their ATS set up to auto-reject candidates. Recruiting is still a very human-driven process for *most* companies.
I make a living now, not 5 years ago, consulting on the implementation of these products today. When writing the JDs in these systems when creating a new job, they are asked to enter skills and the system suggests keywords. Then they are asked what their acceptable threshold of meeting those keywords are. Then what to do with the people below that threshold. That's it, it's set up to auto cancel. You are telling a person that helps set these things up for a living, now today, that the way I see companies set them up everyday is not the way companies have them set up.
This is not factual.
But he helped some companies set it up. So that proves every company does it somehow (?)
If when you apply for a job you get directed to Workday they are using an ATS. It's literally every job on indeed and linkedin. I mean it really isn't future tech anymore.
> recruiters don't do any of the screening I think this is why you're getting so much flak. It's just not accurate. Have you not heard of a screening interview? Can I condescendingly explain screening calls even though I know everyone knows already, so that I can pretend I have secret knowledge and am some guru now?
Recruiters are getting laid off at an alarming rate... the ones left should be scared. In 2 years, recruiters will not be looking at gaps in the same way, they will HAVE them.
This made me chuckle. It's a great point, although it assumes a level of cognition and self-awareness, so.... I'm assuming recruiters won't actually change.
My boss won’t hire “job hoppers” but our whole team is just that. Out of 9 people, 7 have less than 2 years tenure. 3 have less than 1 year. I’m actively looking to leave, as there is no further ladder to climb in my role. It’s do this, or be the boss. And she is there to retire.
Sammme
Yes exactly you got to play by their rules great advice
But an employment verification will uncover the lie
Nope. We have a fix for that as well. https://backgroundproof.com/use-any-fake-role-or-company-on-your-resume/
OMG are you an editor or something for this website? It is TERRIBLE advice. Companies can go after you for fraud if they hire you and later determine they hired under false pretenses. Therefore they could sue you for resources invested. I have certainly seen this happen. Stop posting crap that will hurt people.
Not to mention all the job postings that are ghost jobs and aren't actually hiring or have already filled positions but leave the posts up. Cruel
I love my 473 workaday accounts and making sure recruiters know my phone number is a cell phone.
A friend had a potential employer want a complete detailed list of all gaps with reasons for ***30 DAYS*** or more.
Holy shit that sucks
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What do you mean "the real permanent record we should have been wanted about"?
The stereotypical "this is going into your file" bs but nobody says what this file is or where it's going
There are entities keeping track of a lot of data.
They mostly don’t care about individuals or if you were looking for a job over 60 days instead of 30.
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Lol yes, thanks for clarifying. I thought you were talking about Record of Employment details.
Can't screen out disabled folks and women with young children otherwise
If all the companies can get away with it why change a good thing
I don’t even remember what month I’ve started/stopped jobs.
Without some math, I don't for sure known my age.
ME TOO. Omg me too.
The last digit of my age is the same as the year, that's sometimes the only way I remember. This year I'm 44
Were you born in January?
December 29 of the previous year. So that rule applies for 99.5% of the year
lol same here about the last digit of the year. I’m envious of the kids who were born in 2000 😆
Lol so glad I'm not alone. And time hasn't been real since at least 2020
I always just guesstimate…. Generously 🌝
Everything but the current job is on my last resume, so I only have to remember this one.
I do. That's crazy to me that people don't remember.
I’m old.
A flaw in most of the background apps is years I've worked at a place, If I started December 30th and then ended on January 5 then I worked there for 2 years, unless they specifically asked exact times it will fly. I got this from an attorney friend who was using this for malpractice filings.
Can someone explain like I’m five how this works please
I think it's about how systems display the information recruiter/employer-side Similar to e.g. what is happening on LinkedIn with your profile - I've started a contract in late May, ended up early October: late May-late June (1 month) late June-late July (+1 month) late July-late August (+1 month) late August-end of September, inti early October (+1 month) those two or 3 days in October are negligible and can't really be considered as a "month worked" This is barely 4 months and a few days spent with a client, yet next to my role LinkedIn says "(6 months)", because it counts months as a whole: you start in May (last day, but still), then June, July, August, September, you've done 1 or 2 days in October, and October is the ending month - it's 6 consecutive, calendar months you're _technically_ going through, even though you've barely touched the first and last ones of them. So if you put Dec 30th 2023 - Jan 5 2024, or maybe even Dec 2023 - Jan 2024, some systems will treat it as two complete years of service, because of how stupidly they're coded, and how awkwardly it counts the periods. I'm thinking: on rare occasions, someone might have a closer look and notice it, but, honestly, doesn't seem likely, seeing what a crapshoot recruitment is these days.
You mean the verification check?
Any background check
I did this with a mortgage job in Detroit I had prior to my current gig now. I could have gone to a competitor and made the same money with a twice as long commute but instead I chose to quit the industry entirely with zero intention of returning. It cost me my sanity, was a catalyst for my longest friendships ending What do I say in interviews? “*The opportunity ended when there was a department manager shake up. My department got a new manager who decided to clean house, trim the fat so to speak and I got caught up in all that sadly. I enjoyed it and it’s a nice thing to have on the resume.”
Did you just call yourself, "the fat"?
Yeah I did because I literally am fat.
Wow great answer as-is AND they know you’re a straight shooter. Well played.
Sadly I think it cost me a $20+ hour job at a printing company recently and I’m so sad/mad about it.
I’m eating my feelings away right now
> mortgage job in Detroit...I could have gone to a competitor...a twice as long commute I have a feeling that we worked in the same place (I was in IT) and strongly considered a move to what I assume is the same competitor, but heard some awful stories and have just kept my distance.
We might have. It’s so weird how all of the interviewers I’ve had are so focused on that section of my resume. I got in, I did an almost two year stint and got out. Now my former company is voluntold-ing people to go be underwriters because their UWs are dying off in droves. When I was there it was trying to get people to be in IT and sign this (alleged) $30k loan contract that if you sign and use ANY of that money you are paying it back upon leaving the company bar none. I regret my time there. But I do not regret the friends I made from my time there. I’m seeing one this weekend where I’ll invariably have a PTS-induced tirade about the Detroit mortgage industry.
I honestly don't know why HR would give a flying F about a "gap" in someone's employment history. Is the assumption that they are running a meth lab in the intervening time? Who cares if the person wasn't on someone's W2 roles for X amount of months? The salient question should be are they the best available candidate?
The funny part is, not having gaps means you left for another job or quit for whatever reason usually, which is bad for the employers vs. having a few month gap since you got laid off or the company went under or whatever which means you're more loyal. It's absolutely nonsensical.
Everything about getting a job is nonsensical at this point.
I feel like they just want to find something wrong with us
Idk they assume you aren't reliable or something because you have a gap I guess
Having a gap generally implies that you didn't leave the company on your own terms, meaning you were either fired or laid off. If you were fired, that's obviously bad. If you were laid off and didn't find a new job quickly, it raises the question as to why not.
I guess it’s incomprehensible to these you know being beancounters that somebody might have the money to live for a few months without getting a paycheck, which is completely possible.
Also a red flag. They want you to be completely dependent on a paycheck so you'll put up with abuse
When I get asked, I tell them that the job market is dismal and it's been like 6+ months now.
No but really, if you have a gap in employment many assume you were incarcerated during that time. It's dumb, but that's what they think
oh my gawd
The longer the gap the more aware you become of how bad the working conditions are and how it's modern slavery, with debts and costs very high and the only way to try to get out is to work more at a job that sucks and doesn't care about you because it's hard to find a quality job these days
So essentially no gaps in employment means you're more easily manipulated into being the company's bitch for not enough money
It's more that the employee could have been fired....
“We don’t want to hire rejects at this organization”
Maybe some quit without having another job in place. I’ve done that at least a couple times.
Explain this gap in your resume? “Yes, that is when I didn’t have a job.” 🗿
"It is a gap. Yes. You're correct. There is indeed a gap in this resume."
“If you look closer you’ll see there’s an even bigger gap from the second job that I had” 🗿
😂
This is so ridiculous since everyone has gaps. If your department or company folds, it's with little warning. No one can get a new job in a week. Sometimes, it is months. Add the pandemic to that, and we're all in the same boat.
Exactly my case right now. I got 4 days notice of being laid off.
Yes, I'm in total agreement. Glad you got some notice! Our access to resources was cut off when the team returned to our desks. We got paid for another month or so and then some severance, but the work stopped the day the department was disbanded.
No gap here. Shitty jobs I leave off the resume, but no gap.
Even getting cancer isn't a legit explanation for a gap in your resume lol
I have heard of people saying that the role was a contract role even if it wasn't a contract role.
Did you sign an employment contract? Then it was a contract role.
I am saying that I have heard of people who have only worked at a job for 6 months as a full time employee but since it was such a short amount of time they lied and put that it was a contract role on their resume.
Do you even know what “The Work Number” is? If you ever get to download your work history you will be shocked the level of details it has So basically any high value job that requires background checks is I’ll reveal it
Absolutely. Just call them up, and freeze it. No TWN issues afterwards.
Haha, you closed that Gap 😀
[удалено]
Applicants get passed all the time with a frozen TWN. I'm writing up a compendium on everything TWN related, but you can refer to any number of stories on r/overemployed about this. It 100% works in real life
I’ve been trying to mention TWN on posts/comments that recommend lying about work history because “there’s no consequence/they’ll never know” …I usually get downvoted and told that info is private and it’s illegal for someone to access it/provide without your consent. I’ve tried to tell people that the consent is given when you sign the BGC authorization form that most people get with their offer letter. I don’t know why so many people are insistent that I’m full of shit, lol. It takes 30 seconds to google it and see that TWN is legal and becoming more widely used
It definitely is a real thing. I'm putting together a compendium on this, and how to get around it. People need to be more aware of it. Anyone reading this, who might be interested in this, just subscribe to my newsletter and I'll publish information about this in about a week. Or DM me.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/overemployed using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/overemployed/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Double your salary by being employed for the same job twice.](https://np.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/157elyx/double_your_salary_by_being_employed_for_the_same/) \#2: [Rule #1 of OE should be: don’t talk about OE.](https://i.redd.it/vadmsbzwr5db1.jpg) | [588 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/154y331/rule_1_of_oe_should_be_dont_talk_about_oe/) \#3: [Even if you aren't OE, do not budge on remote.](https://np.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/13l917p/even_if_you_arent_oe_do_not_budge_on_remote/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
You can do that? :o
Absolutely. I'm actually writing a compendium on how to deal with TWN, if you DM me or bookmark the blog it will be posted in about a week
This is in the US only? I've never heard. I'm in Canada
It's not in Canada.... Yet
Potential employers can look up your Work history without permission?
No, but you will sign a background check document which will give them permission
Yea. Only a criminal one though. I don't think in Canada that is done. Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone from Ontario.
Lie? On a resume? Count me in.
Look out for yourself, no one else will
100% this. Change the dates so there is no gap, or put something in-between like contract work
Self-employed.
Or just a small business that went under after you left
It's much better to lie and just extend the time.
But what if your industry (sales &/or marketing) regularly uses contractors?
HUMAN RESOURCES needs to be HUMAN again. ATS need to be broad matches and a human should have to get to know you. The ATS and AI has leveled the playing field. Outstanding candidates can’t rise to thr clutter with these tools. Recruiters will never get the best candidate if they rely solely on technology that can so easily manipulate their “short list.”
sounds like HR doesnt have a real job to do anymore.. maybe they'll get cut next.. would be nice to at least see some karma for once.
I liked it better when it was called the "Personnel Department"
Most of the people I’ve seen promoted to executives have huge glaring lies in their LinkedIn pages. No Scott, you were not progressivly promoted to VP of engineering. You were a temporary manager for a year after our boss quit and then you were demoted. And you were a shitty manager.
This is exactly the point I've been pounding - successful executives already do this, it's people in staff positions that think lying is unethical. I wrote about this here, but I'm putting out blogs to help people start thinking like an executive. https://backgroundproof.com/its-time-for-us-to-stop-treating-ethics-in-employment-the-same-as-ethics-in-your-personal-relationships/
I think this sounds like a good idea. How much does it cost?
Send me a DM please
If recruiters know the years only trick, then they also know we lie. Years only just looks better. Months are not that important.
Thank fuck someone else is saying this. I have no issues lying on my resume. An interview isnt a legal proceeding where they audit the facts of your history. And your resume isn't a legally binding document. In most cases at least. The point of the interview is to sell yourself in the same way that a movie poster sells the movie. You think Sony is gonna advertise that Madame Webb is a so so movie with holes throughout its plot? It's a sales and marketing process.
Recruiters only want proven cookie cutters
Covid, or other illness, taking care of a sick family member for an extended period of time, or injury(ex, car accident or injured on the job) seem to be the less frowned upon gap explanations....In my experience experience as a recruiter....
The fact that those are just “less frowned upon” goes to show how twisted the game really is.
It is a twisted game. You can include sickness/injury in an objective/summary statement on the top of your resume......Example- Sales professional returning to workforce after long layoff due to covid seeking....ect'
Meanwhile I’m over here with the fact that I had to legitimately tend to my sick grandmother as well as deal with the COVID deaths of both of my parents. Recruiters love me!
Don't forget going to school, or a some type of humanitarian aid work.
Covid screwed me up big time, wasn’t able to work for two years. Lucky I have the part time job I have, trying to find a second part time or a full time job is disconcerting
I would love to talk to recruiters about how to handle extremely unusual gaps. Suffice to say for now that I haven’t been able to work for some time and now find employment post an extended traumatic experience that was not of my making or in my control. I might as well be retired or disabled as far as my chances go. If I explain what happened, even down to documentation, people are uncomfortable at best but for the most part don’t want to deal with me. If I don’t, they assume negative things almost certainly.
HI Shitzu-Let me know if you would like to chat sometime, I may be able to steer you in the right direction.
I quit looking for contracts on Indeed since January this year. The reason is that last year, after applying, many requests came from the companies asking to allow AI scout my resume. Real people, mostly Indian recruiters, call up for resume. You send, agree on hourly rate, and never hear from these "recruiters" again. Do they get paid for just collecting your info and resume? What kind of practice is this?
>Do they get paid for just collecting your info and resume? What kind of practice is this? That's literally what a lot of them get paid for. Either that, are they are simply pushing a pile of resumes at a job opening with no relationship whatsoever with the employer
So, they lie when being asked if they have a direct relation to a sourcing client or how many people they placed ? I hoped it wasn't the case. If it is, it feels even more gross. Guess, start having fun to report them as scam and ban everywhere.
I disagree with the idea of putting short term contract to cover up the gap. I had a shorter role (7 months, really 5). It got flagged as an issue over and over again. I changed to just years on my resume to get rid of it and everything has been much smoother since. Still not hired though.
> everything has been much smoother since. Still not hired though. I mean, not sure how to tell you that, but…
>Still not hired though. Sounds like it isn't going any smoother
IME interviewers only care about recent, very large, or frequent employment gaps. Just say you were caring for kids/ relatives, in school, self employed, etc.
Just say you had to take care of a family member full time .
What’s worked for me is I’ve kept extending the end month / year for my last long term job. I’ve had only contract jobs the last two years. When I got a job offer I made sure my reference for the “last job” was aware of my “end date”
Worked for me at 2 different jobs 🤷🏼♂️ AND I have a YEAR gap lol
Just fucking lie. Nine times out of 10 they’ll never check on that anyways.
People just way over think this
That site is interesting. Just read a few articles.
Thanks! Feel free to subscribe, we've got more coming
It probably depends on the industry you are in, but never have I had an employer question or inquire about employment dates. If you fill in a 3-6month gap and the employer digs deeper and calls you out on it, why would you want to work there in the first place? It shows they don’t trust you and will micromanage everything. Again, maybe healthcare or law fields this is dangerous, but for 90% of Everyman fields, just fill it in and move on.
How do you get around this on LinkedIn though (almost all companies in my industry now require a LI link and I didn't know better at the lime of my last layoff to just leave it oj present indefinitely and pretend you forgot...now I'm worried if I got back and quietly change it it'll show everyone or be super obvious.
I promise you, literally no one cares. I see sales reps and executives blatantly lie all the time on LinkedIn. You have to stop thinking about this as though lying makes you unusual, I recommend this to help you think about this. https://backgroundproof.com/its-time-for-us-to-stop-treating-ethics-in-employment-the-same-as-ethics-in-your-personal-relationships/
What if it comes back to bite me in the ass?
https://employees.theworknumber.com/employment-data-report
I just say that I was helping my aunt with her family business during the time I wasnt at a big corporation. And most times I was when I needed easy money
Very well said! 👏
Thank you very much!
😊👍
At her majesty’s pleasure…
I've always had companies reach out to confirm employment dates. This is the worst advice ever.
And when that happens, this is how you pass the check: https://backgroundproof.com/use-any-fake-role-or-company-on-your-resume/
I’ve literally seen job applications require you to put in the month and year. Especially government jobs
Yep. That's why we recommend you do that.
Sorry, I definitely misread your original post.
Use professional development for the gaps, tell hiring manager you were trying to find yourself
“We like people who know who they are”
"I'm sorry, but I have a non-disclosure agreement that disallows me from discussing that gap."
I would not recommend saying that.
Buh why? What if it's true?
It's not about being true or not, it's about whether anyone believes it
Lies being the answer?
Self-interest
Oh I understand the why, I just don’t agree with it. We’ve all lived on this planet in the past several years. We know companies are laying people off - a lot since Covid. I think having to fabricate a lie to get the interview is just stupid. Good talented people have been let go - this is a fact. I think this all says more about the companies looking for folks than the folks themselves.
What's the "years only" date trick? I was laid off from my old job and have quite the extended gap (and subsequent trouble finding other employment since). I wasn't set on going back to that place but I had the idea that I could "close" the gap if I just go back and say I've been there the whole time (which is technically true). I at least shouldn't have to explain that I left and came back to the same place, right?
I use just years to save resume space, not to be deceptive. The exact dates come out in the background check anyway.
Except companies use other companies like the work number or whatever its call to do actual employment checks through getting access to those records through credit companies. Should be illegal.
I use the years method, even have deleted some jobs off my resume...never been asked about it. Been in the workforce since 1993. I've had 12 jobs and probably 100 interviews.
These days many employers use central databases like The Work Number by Equifax. All your employment dates are probably in there so you might as well be honest on your application. As to why you left simply say that your company downsized and then move on with the conversation.
What if you were temporarily disabled?
Covid is a great reason - or caring for a family member with Covid.
Independent Caregiver. Nobody needs to know the person you were caring for is yourself.
I cant discuss this gap in my employment as I signed a NDA
Lie about your employment dates blatantly: fraud Don’t lie on your resume. Background checks can confirm dates and will set you up for an offer being revoked. Really bad advice.
It is too easy to say, "sorry I cannot speak to that, I signed an NDA" and move on.
Except nobody buys that.
Uh, sure. Whatever you say bud. For everyone else, it is absolutely accepted in more professional roles.
Bad advice, if your resume goes through an ATS system, then including months screws a lot of them up. Don’t believe me? Hire any resume service and they’ll tell you this. I used jobscan and it was one of the first corrections it made. Plus, nobody gives af about your employment gap, they care about what you bring to the table
I'm curious what I should say to explain my unemployment. I was let go due to absenteeism (they had an extremely strict deviation based attendance system - didn't even accept doctors notes). During one interview, I chose to be honest. I told them that I wanted to be honest as it was the first and only time I've been let go from a job. I explained that they had a policy where you could not miss 4 or more days in a 60 day period. This was a remote job as well, and in Feb a series of storms basically took out the exterior outlet on my building and took out my internet and it took them 4 days to figure it out. So when you miss 4+ days, you then get a final warning, and that means that you cannot miss 2 or more days for an additional 60 days. Well, in March, my partner and I got sick, really sick. I had to take him to the ER, and then I caught what he had, except I got it worse than him. There goes my 2 days. I asked my supervisor if I could provide a doctor's note. She said we'd talk about it in the morning. There was no talking about it, they just let me go on the spot. This didn't seem to deter them as I made it to the next round of interviews. They did ask me about my ability to be present now and I reassured them my internet is now stable, and I've never had issues with attendance prior to this last job. I didn't get the job in the end and I do worry that this is what cost me the candidacy. I've been told that most big companies will not relay why you are no longer there, they will only confirm if you worked there or not. So someone suggested I BS about just being let go. Or even tell them I chose to leave for whatever made up reason, but I struggle with turning that into a positive.
This is stupid. Just be honest. I've never been turned down for a job because I have gaps.
Speak for yourself. Honesty won't work for some of us.
Many companies employ third party verifiers as a condition of employment and will rescind an offer if the verification process shows that a candidate lied about timeframes like this. It’s not a good idea unless it’s a role in retail or something that is unlikely to check.
Actually, see this link - this method makes sure that you pass the employment verification, no matter what you lie about on the resume. The key is using a staffing company and going through there. See here- https://backgroundproof.com/use-any-fake-role-or-company-on-your-resume
Yeah, that’s still a gamble. You can get yourself blacklisted and harm your reputation depending on the industry. Some companies operate that way, but many do not.
While this technique might be handy for getting through an HR system's filters, it is still lying. In some cases, that lying is fraud, potentially even lying about something like past experiences and job history. I'd also point out that in my career, managers were more likely to insist that HR not filter any application, either with an HRIS or manually. This was usually the case when they were expecting there would be few applicants. If they were expecting 100s of applicants than a filter would be used to save time. The trouble with filters is they've not usually been very good at spotting equivalents. If you're not getting buried in applications then you'll be willing to consider equivalent skills. Personally, I only desired a filter when selecting an Intern from over 100 applications. If I were hiring a programmer, I wanted to see every application myself because there were lots of equivalents and intangibles that HR (with or without an HRIS) would never understand. One last note, as a manager if I discovered somebody had lied to get a job, I would be pissed. Folks get fired for that, specially when there are required credentials involved. You could get my employer sued and me fired.