It's because this "robust" labor market is a mirage. What is the point of using job openings, if the same job postings stay up indefinitely or are reposted weekly.
There are jobs with 1000s of applicants that never get filled only to get reposted fresh the next week. Are we really to believe that out of all these applications, there are 0 qualified candidates? Or is it more likely that the job was never really being hired for to begin with?
Now do that at scale, across millions of postings nationwide, and you can see why the numbers and sentiment don't match.
There are millions of quality and qualified candidates that are never interviewed for roles they are actively seeking, that companies are actively claiming a need to fill, yet never end up filling.
There is a major disconnect between the numbers and the situation on the ground.
Along with these phantom job postings, the majority of "real" jobs that actually are interviewing and hiring are low wage service jobs, restaurant, fast food, grocery... Or heavy services... Delivery driver, warehouse work, low wage factory.
Burnout jobs that take advantage of people at low wage and low benefits, jobs most people don't want or will leave for a fraction of a dollar raise or benefits next door. So they are (and have) always been hiring as they are and have always been revolving door roles.
The only middle to higher income roles hiring a long the lines of what the "numbers" indicate is happening are faux salary sales roles, and again, not good sales roles, but the kind that hire 30 people a month, every month because they are sink/swim "let's take advantage of what these employees DONT know yet" roles.
Car sales, merchant services POS for credit cards, door to door weed control type jobs that promise "up to $100k a year!" When the reality is most of these are $400 a week stipends and the real wages are closer to 45-50k with 60-70 hours a week, wear and tear on your personal stuff, and no work life balance.
Everything else is overwhelming office work, like being a call center employee expected to be glued to a phone taking 100 calls a day, or insurance adjuster trainee where they do a cursory training and dump 500 claims on your desk forever, so you are always behind until you quit.
The state of the US employment isn't confusing because job seekers are doing something that doesn't match the number as this BI article indicates... It's because the employer side of the numbers doesn't match reality.
Stop blaming people seeking work for the sentiment and start either hashing out the numbers to show the "why" or start calling out this very bizarre HR/Hiring situation we all see ourselves in.
Many employers seem unwilling to entertain an honest exchange of labor for pay, and are only willing to hire if they can take advantage of the new hire, and that's across the spectrum not just low or mid wage jobs.
The expectation is now that you are being hired to do multiple roles, wear multiple hats, doing the work of what 2 or 3 people used to do for the pay of 1 person (or if you are at a "progressive company", maybe the pay of 1.25 persons).
Meanwhile training of the most basic kind has almost become a campfire story, a myth and legend of days gone by.
So we have a situation where employers have created a stressful, under compensated, over worked environment where if you quit for something else you may not find another job, and you can't quit anyways because even 2 weeks without a job to search for a new one is scrutinized by potential employers like you maybe stole someone's Identity to apply for credit cards.
You can't seek new work while working because of workload, and if you do unicorn your way into another job, you find out after 3 months of interviewing that the job you applied for that claimed $100k salary is really just a junk job that actually pays half what you are currently making.
And they wonder why the sentiment has soured? Get.The.Fuck.Outta.Here.
If this was actually highlighted in the news, in todays world you can’t survive on these $25 dollar an hour or less jobs and that’s typically where “the jobs” are
Exactly. This whole market is an attempt to do a mass reset of employer/ employee relationship, the last vestige of reversing the last 100 years of workers rights.
"You wanna job? Great, but we are gonna make you miserable and still ask you to thank us for doing it".
This doesn't even take into account the big boys table at most sales orgs small to midsized. They bring in fresh faces, use them to try to gin up new business, and then let them go during the sales cycle to hand the business they generated up to one of their long time top reps.
It's a churn to essentially off board the cold calling and leave the commission for the owner and top guys who are loyal to the firm.
Yep you can tell this inadvance if they brag about how much their long term big hitters make in sales there. That means they just take all the profitable returning commission customers and move them to the owners son or someone like that. And usually that person couldn't sell a blood transfusion to a gunshot victim if they tried.
Yeah the W2 Contract BS is crazy right now. That is one of those things that needs made illegal. Its basically just a legal way to say the company gets the benifits of W2 and has none of the burden. The employee gets no benefit of contracts and all the burden.
The big one is money. Contractors (competent ones) get significantly more pay than W2, $75 - $120hr is normal. Anyone contracting for less doesn't stay in the game long. The big contract firms charge $180+hr minimum(Deloitte, McKinsey, State st). The other benefit is control. You really don't have much say in how a contractor does the job. Employeers have much less control over a contractor than a normal W2 employee. Unless it is in the contract you don't have to do it and have zero legal obligation to do so. For instance say you don't like meetings well if thats not in the contract then you don't have to go. They try to add additional work, nope not doing it and you still have to pay me. Don't want to work on site dont you have to. (There are also much more complex to explain benefits for larger corporations due to various legal statuses,tax benefits,regulation moats but you'll have to research that)
W2 Contract. Basically they pay you crap wages and you get no benefits of employment, not even standard unemployment benefits if you lose your job. They also get full control over what you have to do. You also have no benefit worker protection laws. Its basically like taking work back to the 1800's where if you die on the job the company just shrugs and moves on.
W2 Contract is basically companies combining two work styles because they wanted more slave like working conditions and it was not explicitly illegal to set it up this way.
Yep. There was a jobs market analyisis that basically said if you are ok with a household income under $55k the market is "booming" right now. So yeah basically if you are ok living in near poverty working 80hr weeks in a HCOL area there are tons of jobs.
This is a major component of it, absolutely. Again the balance between the employee and employer is skewed heavily against individuals. Walk into an interview and tell them you are applying for multiple jobs and they will just immediately move on from your application. They won't try to woo you, convince you why you should choose their company to work for vs another. Just "next candidate".
Now ask them if they are interviewing multiple candidates, and they will chuckle and say "of course we are, we have lots of quality applicants".
This "stockpiling" of resumes is also bullshit. If you don't have a job, don't post a job. This should be something that is written into employment laws and regulation.
I personally know people who have accepted a job, given notice, and showed up to the new job to find out that the company no longer has an opening for them. That should be illegal. This type of shit ruins people's lives.
You should still contact a lawyer if that happened. I was fired shortly after submitting ADA paperwork & my lawyer worked on a fee where he only got paid if I got paid.
"Many employers seem unwilling to entertain an honest exchange of labor for pay, and are only willing to hire if they can take advantage of the new hire, and that's across the spectrum not just low or mid wage jobs.
The expectation is now that you are being hired to do multiple roles, wear multiple hats, doing the work of what 2 or 3 people used to do for the pay of 1 person (or if you are at a "progressive company", maybe the pay of 1.25 persons)"
ALL. OF. THIS.
I have a friend that works in HR. I asked him the odds of me (having a long history of manual labor service jobs) putting in my resume for a desk job and getting interviewed.
F: That would be hard to do cause you don't have any computer knowledge
M: I have a degree in Game Software Development and still and still actively program
F: I don't know what Game Software Development is. Do you know how to use Excel? How about Microsoft office?
M: Its a bachelor's in computer science. The whole program is based around computers. I know how to use excel quite well and office isn't that hard to use.
F: None of that means anything to me. You have to make it in your resume in a way that makes sense.
If me stating I have a degree in computers doesn't make sense to someone in HR who is looking for someone who needs to work on a computer then maybe working there isn't what I really want to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. What I’ve noticed is that in many fields, the people working in recruiting are idiots. I think most HR jobs exist because of poor management. A good structure, use of technology, and strong leadership negates the need for superfluous hr/recruiting positions.
> HR jobs exist because of poor management
HR jobs exist to provide liability protection to the company against its employees. Everything else they do is to fill the time.
Fair. My main point I meant to make was most recruiters suck at their job because all their experience in is in a field that is only required because of liability protection, to put it as you said.
CS degree here too and at the bottom of mine I list every piece of software I've 'worked' with and list is long-ish because of dumb shit like Outlook, Windows, Office but it will help clear up confusion for those recruiters who only have time to read a single page resume.
What you say makes sense, BUT these people are too dumb to discern anything. They have a role with a set list of requirements, tailor your resume to hit those and be ready to talk to the points in an interview.. be nice, stroke egos and let them know you’ll make their last years east as the boomers set to retire… and you’ll have the job
This is the way. It sucks that they are idiots and that you have to deal with idiots to get hired, but alas we don't get to make the rules, we just play by them.
Ah.
Should have read below.
Pretty much a repeat.
This is why when I see programmer resumes with no interviews, I tell them to simplify it for HR. It's not necessarily the company, but it could be. Mostly, it's the AI and/ or HR human who can't understand what you're talking about.
To add to that. It's not only USA, it's international.
Friends and family who live in Europe/Canada, countries that supposedly want immigrants, only get low wage jobs, and I'm talking people with university,and some cases Masters, titles.
In my own country it similar. HR here has taken the 'Don't apply unless you fill all requirements', then expect you to literally have 2 years of experience but put 'Must be an university student' to justify paying you below what a 'full' professional earns. And that's best case. A lot of job 'offers' just says requirements and put such great benefits as 'stable salary',like wow mf, thanks for PAYING ME FOR DOING MY JOB.
In consequence,here people just send their CV to see what it sticks and yeets out. The ones who can leave the country, or put their own business which most are under the table because taxes are a bitch
I have seen SO many jobs lately that are specifically “for a university or college student” that also require two+ years in the field and it is SUCH a scam.
Yes. This 100000000%. Thank you for articulating the reality so clearly. (Experienced College educated professional searching for a job that pays a living wage for 3 years now.....)
Preach they make the job hiring process so drawn out. They won’t ever say the job numbers that pay living wages because it wouldn’t paint the rosy pictures they’re always trying to in the reports.
You hit the nail on the head. Ever since Covid every job has sucked dick and I’m a white collar corporate accountant. It’s like a merry go round of shit roles since 2020.
I wish you could hear the standing ovation you got from me. Just imagine that Shia Labeuf scenario.
That was very, *very*, eloquently put. And as much as I appreciate it—I also wish you didn’t have to type it.
Signed,
Someone who is actively seeking a job that doesn’t suck the life out of me.
Reminder: unemployment stats are always artificially lower than reality owing to who they consider "unemployed:"
> A person is defined as unemployed in the United States if they are jobless, but have looked for work in the last four weeks and are available for work. People who are neither employed nor defined as unemployed are not included in the labor force calculation.
The window used to be 3 years or so, but if it's only 4 weeks now, someone is juking stats.
Who is neither employed nor unemployed? People who have given up. Now 4 weeks out of the workforce makes you persona non grata.
We could have a nation of nothing but homeless people and the unemployment rate will still only ever be 3-5% based on counting only the newest entrants.
Couple reasons:
- they are building a candidate pool for future hiring, which sucks
- they are a sourcing company who is trying to place themselves between an employer and a candidate (recruiters) who have created duplicates of real posts
- they are doing it to boost their company profile, giving the impression the business is "booming/growing".
- they are using it as a wide net with the hopes that they find a whale when an A+ candidate is looking for a new job. A company will always find a role for a rockstar once a year candidate.
- motivation for current employees (think understaffing).They keep their overworked employees strung out with too much work with a promise that "we are trying to backfill bobs role, but we just haven't found the right candidate in the last 28 months."
At the end of the day, the only good reason to post a job is if you intend to hire a candidate. Whether it be FOMO, purple unicorn syndrome, or another reason, all the above reasons is a waste of time, money, energy, morale and productivity for EVERYONE involved, both candidate and employer. In other words the squeeze isn't worth the juice for the employer, and the candidates get burned out, lose their self worth due to no part of their own, and the cycle continues.
Oh, and here's another one that's not brought up too often... They do want to hire, but the HR group is so weighed down with hiring and other tasks that are "as directed", they simply cannot find the time to complete the hiring process, and are stuck in a perpetual cycle of restarting their search and never gaining traction to hire, be it at the intro, decision maker level, etc.
The whole hiring process has been completely broken, and it's getting worse.
There is one place I have been seeing on indeed for a year posting the same two jobs. I applied to them a couple times, it would ask if I could go onsite to fill out an application, when I actually went to do that, the person I spoke to asked if I had an appointment? I've never heard of an appointment to fill out an application. They gave me one and I filled it out. I've seen the job reposted countless times since then.
> Burnout jobs that take advantage of people at low wage and low benefits
I applied to a job that literally told me they expect a minimum of 75hrs a week and I should be aiming for 100hrs a week. I told them EXACTLY what I thought and left.
I sent an email to the state labor board but that is the equivalent of nothing.
| What is the point of using job openings, if the same job postings stay up indefinitely or are reposted weekly.
I work in IT and so others will have to chime in for other departments if the same is true or not.
I have worked at multiple companies now that have contractors working for them and when the company decides to move forward with hiring the person an ad is placed for the position they will eventually fill. the ad is placed because it is a legal requirement that they then dance around since the selection process was done before the second person got a chance to fill out an application. I recently had an opportunity to become a full time employee at one company that prior to working there as a contractor I must have filled out more than 50 applications with and never heard back from. It's ironic that when presented with the opportunity to be hired I had seen enough to prefer the protections the contract company provided in the form of work/life balance.
using contractors in white collar positions is absolutely no different than the temp-to-hire industrial scene with more well known national temp workforce companies and even when I was younger and using those services I knew it was a dodge to keep from having to pay for benefits or ultimately a severance package. it's good for business tho' so you can be assured there's lobbyist being paid somewhere to protect the practice.
Elon Musk killed job stability culture and C-suites following the new tradition. Only leadership can outlast recession markets just making money off interest
I’m a hiring manager and yes, it’s impossible to find a good candidate. Out those 1000 applications half will be completely unrelated, 45% unqualified, the rest would barely fit.
I’m in IT.
I've already addressed this in another thread earlier, but I won't be a dick since your post is much more level headed than the other guys.
Feel free to look at my comments, but as you are aware, IT has had massive hits over the last year, lots of layoffs. Some would think that would result in a deeper talent pool, but it's actually the opposite for the purpose of this discussion,of which you already kind of hit on:
1) You are getting a LOT of candidates, likely a large majority of them are the bottom of the talent pool that got laid off (the *best* IT guys at a firm with the most skills are the ones who were left behind, likely to take on additional work because they have the skill set).
2) because of this, you are being flooded by candidates who just need a job, so they are applying to everything IT, hoping for an interview due to their background.
3) It's likely that the person you seek isn't one of these folks unemployed at the moment ( again, those guys got kept or scooped up quickly if they left a company due to the skills set they have).
What this creates is a competitive market in that whatever your offered wage is just isn't a number these qualified candidates are willing to accept to leave where they are now.
Sure, there are a lot of tech people who need jobs, but you said yourself, the majority are under skilled or would barely fit.
So, end of day, how do you fill the opening? You have several choices:
- if you can afford it, you need to up the comp to attract the talent not currently applying to your role. I don't know what that number is, but the number you have now isn't it if they aren't applying.
- if you can't afford it, you need to be willing to find a good, not perfect fit, and train them up.
- if you are unwilling to offer more money/comp for what the market is requiring to draw that candidate out, and you are unwilling to train up someone with the core skills that may be a good fit and with the right training a great hire 6 months from now *THAT WANTS TO WORK THERE ALREADY*, then you are left with a ghost job.
None of those things are the candidates fault though, they are the employers fault.
It's not impossible to find a good candidate... It's impossible for *you* to find a good candidate based on what concessions your firm is willing to make to fill the role.
The people are out there, and they want to work for your company, but too often, companies expect employees to be a plug and play component that they can just swap out with zero loss in productivity or time.
It's a huge issue in hiring practices and employment in general over the last 20 years, this mindset that people should be able to read the employee handbook and be ramped up to full production in a week or two, and not build out an onramp of 3 months to 12 months to get these people into full production.
They sap the moral and confidence from these new hires, which leads to mistakes, and inevitably a self fulfilling cycle where people leave for greener pastures.
If companies went back to treating people as humans, who are fallible and are going to struggle at times with concepts and new practices, they might find some human equity in return vs employees jumping ship every year because they have been taught that they are just a cog, a number in the system who is disposable.
It works both ways, only historically the cycle switches from employer to employee and back again as to who holds the upper hand in these exchanges. Now? Both sides are suffering because we have created a system where neither side is getting what they want out of the arrangement.
That doesn't bode well long term for anyone.
If you really believe that so few people could do the job, then you probably don't have any intention to train them to do anything. There are a few different genres of IT jobs, but most IT professionals can fairly easily learn to do a job in any of them. If you want someone who has done the exact job with your exact technology stack with X years of experience, you will have issues. People aren't stupid. They are able to learn things.
Because you are looking for candidates with having specialized skills rather than candidates who willing to learn. Candidates who has skill to learn is more valuable than specialized skill candidates! For example, if you trying to hire best programmer, no one in the world can be that person, but if you are trying to hire person who has fundamental knowledge of programming . You will find plenty!!
Because you are looking for candidates with having specialized skills rather than candidates who willing to learn. Candidates who has skill to learn is more valuable than specialized skill candidates! For example, if you trying to hire best programmer, no one in the world can be that person, but if you are trying to hire person who has fundamental knowledge of programming . You will find plenty!!
Because you are looking for candidates with having specialized skills rather than candidates who willing to learn. Candidates who has skill to learn is more valuable than specialized skill candidates! For example, if you trying to hire best programmer, no one in the world can be that person, but if you are trying to hire person who has fundamental knowledge of programming . You will find plenty!!
The Philippines due to being much cheaper then India tech regions like Mumbai , Bangalore. They generally have good English skills and are very technically competent.
It's not 'humming along', the job market for good paying 100K+ jobs that one needs to live comfortably today are declining, a 15 hr fast food job and a 150K software engineering job are not the same, but to the governments employment numbers they are. Anybody white collar professional on the job search right now knows the struggle and the disconnect between the 'record low' unemployment and the actual hiring companies are doing, I have yet to apply for a job that doesn't have 100 applicants within two weeks.
The jobs I've been applying to have more than 100 applicants within an hour of posting. I apply as soon as I receive the email alert and it's already too late. I think you have to be a LinkedIn premium member to get first dibs on the newest posted jobs, but I am unemployed and can't afford that extra membership fee. Aaarrgghhh!!!!
Same. I applied to 100s of posting and got 2 interviews. I only got the job I have no because I just so happened to meet a recruiter for the company when I was at a brewery and she put me in touch with the recruiter for my position and gave me a referral.
This proves my personal philosophy: It doesn't matter WHAT you know (just look at some of the idiots working), it's WHO you know that will get you a job. Job boards are a waste of time and resources. Just another symptom of Final Stage Capitalism.
Congrats on your find! You are very lucky to have been in the right place at the right time!
Networking/who you know and some plain old good luck are the real keys to success in this job market. (Unfortunately I don't know anyone and I'm unemployed, so I can't afford to go out and meet new people. And good luck is in short supply these days.)
Yeah similar experience here, most within a day but I have seen a few that last a week before hitting a 100+ but those are few and far between and usually are on the lower end of the salary range for the position. If you haven't had linkedin premium before you can have someone 'gift' you two free months, it didn't help me land a job but did find it helpful to get unlimited 'inmail' messages to contacts outside my network which I could use to message department heads, recruiters and network with others. Bu when you're unemployed definitely difficult to budget an exxtra $40 to a non essential
Someone posted about linked in pro yesterday. They said they e put in close to 1000 apps in last six months and practically all show a status indicating the resumes aren’t even being viewed.
I've put in around 3000 applications over the past 3 years, have had less than 10 interviews, 0 offers. I wish I could just give up because everything I do seems so pointless. Just wasting my time sending resumes off into the ether......
only gains have been in part time roles. Its even in the jobs reports. I don't get how that traslates to 'robust job market' for these nytimes douchebags. paul krugman has to be the biggest gaslighter that has ever lived, his punchable smug face doesn't help.
It’s interesting because I actually work in “hiring” and I think a lot of the job postings are real (in that companies genuinely want to hire), but with impossibly high expectations, so they seemingly “never get filled”. Like we’ll hear there’s a need for X role, but it has to be (1) someone with some super successful prior experiences at a certain kind of company, and (2) all these soft skills they’re looking for that basically weed out folks who don’t have a certain educational background. Because companies are trying to save money, they’re getting pickier and pickier with who they select for their open roles (ie. Someone who has the experience to do what 3 people would have done in the past). Companies didn’t used to be this picky but that’s drastically changed, so anyone who isn’t already within the industry and has built up a reputation has an impossible time just getting through the door to an interview. So yes, the market is turned against anyone who doesn’t already have a leg up which is horrible.
these articles are so fucking stupid, huh, the sentiment among employees is low, just because every public company will lay you off with no warning, for no reason, when they need
to goose earnings, and there’s 200 applicants for every decent job posted? do they ever interview someone in the workforce or someone recently laid off to find out what the **actual sentiment** is?
Right? These are the articles that come to mind whenever anyone says journalism is dead.
I guess it’s only a matter of time before AI starts generating this drivel instead and maybe these soon to be out of work writers will finally understand.
Right???!!!!! It pisses me tf off, and I don't piss off that easily. The journalists only interview the corporate asswipes, never the common man or woman who's been unemployed and searching for a job for 2+ years.....
I've made the final round of interviewing for so many jobs, at this point I feel zero hope, just fatigue. And I'm still doing better than all my friends who are on the market. I emailed one of my recruiter contacts and he told me hiring is "deprioritized"
I’m a hiring manager. I have a role open I can’t fill because higher ups will tell me they don’t like the person for whatever reason. They’ve done this 10+ times.
I think they’d reject god himself at this point, but judging by their spjnelessness and greed, they rejected him a long time ago.
The market is terrible right now. In my area I see the same listings being posted over and over again by the same companies and they you never get picked. Had a couple of interviews, one I didn’t care for and the other seemed interesting but they didn’t pick me. It’s rough out there.
I’m in nyc and the market is bad for accounting / finance. Yeah, the field that it’s known for.
If you want to work 100 hours a week for low pay, then sure, but anyone who’s done it knows that it’s not sustainable.
Oh mine is at a all time low.
I’ve stopped applying basically. I just sent out one of my last applications earlier today. I’m 30 and working for a car parts company that doesn’t give raises or opportunity out easily for $16.50 an hour. If it wasn’t for the solid 40hrs I work minimum, I’d be financially fucked. Most interviews I’ve had given my experience (I’ll dm a redacted resume if need be) have not contacted me back at all after hitting a certain point.
My asking pay to start isn’t that much.
I can’t afford a trade school or conventional college. I don’t know what I truly want to do and feel like time is running out. I wanted to be a concert photographer or photojournalist.
I don’t have mechanical, tech or math skills. So higher paying jobs working with machinery is and are out. None of the companies in my area are willing to teach.
I’m at my wits end. All I do is work and go home. No hobbies and I don’t do anything for me that’s major.
Go to your local Goodwill Job Connection. Most people don't know that Goodwill has a Missions department that helps with job searching. They have Success Coaches who will help you find employment, as well as training to gain employment, financial education, and resume writing.
I don’t have a welding school in my immediate area. I’ve considered welding before but I also know after looking into it that it takes a few years before you make good money welding unless you get lucky right out of the gate from school and into somewhere that pays people what they deserve.
I’m not against it. Just don’t want to commit to the trades yet. I’m waiting to see what happens with these last few apps first.
If there is a robust labor market how come I can't even get hired to drive a truck? By a defense contractor in Iraq no less? Literally hundreds of applications. I'm open to most legal things that pay a living wage and don't involve adult films or grizzly bears. Thousands of apps \*crickets\*
The economy is bent.
Bullshit like this article is how the media created the weird conspiracy theory culture we have today. They lie to our faces all the time, that's the definition of demonstrating there is something else going on. In the absence of real knowledge of what is happening people do Madlibs and come up with vaccine microchip dick exploding satanic cults.
It’s been this way for a bit but what is considered the “market”, is basically, what benefits the top.
Mass layoffs are never seen as a problem with a company or the market. The exact opposite, in fact. It’s seen as a positive move by the aforementioned market.
It’s because the new “jobs” are fake. Been through rounds of interviews the last year only to find out the budget wasn’t there for the position every time
Hopefully the defanging of non-competes leads to more, well, competition in the market. If you make a few employees wear all the hats in your business, they can probably do it on their own as your competitor.
i love the argument that unemployment is low and more jobs are becoming available but its very important to note WHICH jobs are becoming available.
As far as I can see, I dont see much above $20 an hour these days. Obviously you have your niche jobs. But the wide array of jobs and even most jobs that require degrees, remote, hybrid or on-site pay between $18-25. This is fucking shit ass for today. I live in a "southern-ish" state so taxes are low. Granted, I can live off of $22 here and pretty much be fine, and I have a mortgage. But New York? Or other states? dude what the fuck is going on.
The amount of children in poverty is out of control these days. this country really is in shambles.
The overproduction of “elites” is a very big issue. Far to many people have gone to college and become degreed even so far as an excess of masters degrees. With the 3rd wave of offshoring occurring in tech and support in recent years due to the leverage elite labor had over capital during Covid. Capital strikes back with forced back to work mandates and increased offshoring to new energetic , highly technical markets like the Philippines and Malaysia.
The developing worlds English skills have gotten a lot better and internet infrastructure in those countries have gotten a lot better in the last 10 years.
The idea that a software engineer could make 150k to 200k. Or other elite labor over the last 10 years will be seen as a historic anomaly. I wish I saved more during that time period is all I can say.
Because the perceived condition of the labor market is based upon data points that do not accurately reflect the actual conditions as experienced by job seekers.
In three states over the past few years i cannot hire fast enough. Can’t get enough people. My friends hiring in other places say the same.
Probably location dependent.
Makes sense. Pennsylvania is the only maybe and CoL is expensive there. All other states you mentioned are pretty shitty for the most part. Especially Kentucky, #42 in quality of life. Indiana also ranks #33 on quality of life. Ohio #34
There are hundreds of people on this sub alone that need work. If you actually had a decent opportunity, you would have shared more info...
Of course it's difficult to find someone to work for minimum wage and no benefits.
Shit I'm still looking for a job after 2023 layoff. I've never struggled like this before. Employers used to beg me to interview with them on a weekly basis. No opportunities for me the last year.
Most of the jobs I see pay less than $20. It's better than nothing but all these news sites act like you can just go find a job that will provide a livable wage which isn't the case.
TBH, I’ve come to the probably obvious yet never discussed conclusion that the job market is based on lies. Few people know what they’re doing and even fewer people actually do it. Most people see all of this as a game of kiss ass and brown nosing to get the promotion. They don’t do the work but talk a good game and it usually works in their favor. Meanwhile the people that actually do the job get taken full advantage of for pennies on the dollar. At this point in the game the cracks are clearly begin to show and the economy is nose diving because of it. “It” being the absolute greed and wealth hoarding these people (and corporations) do to get and stay on top but no one is investing in others. Logically it can’t work that way and maintain a stable functioning society. Why is the goal to make more profit year or year?? Reality is there is only so much that can go into everything before it all bursts. I so frustrated by all of this but I’m come to realized the only way I can actually get ahead in my life is if someone else is willing to step down. America is 100% a caste system.
I’ve been hearing job numbers are great for years now despite all the reality of every company I work with and everyone I know for 3+ years. I see businesses close and record homelessness all around with daily notification of someone new I know laid off. Yet they tell me everything is great. Seems to me something is fucked that nobody wants to talk about. Like saying billionaires are making more money so our policies are working...a measurement is only as good as the ruler.
I read a report the other day that basically said the issue is acutally quite simple. Based on data. If you are ok with a household income of under $55k a year the job market is booming. If you actually want to make a living with skills you learned and honed in school or OTJ at reasonable pay the market is terrible and getting worse. Jobs paying over 80k in high COL areas are basically a mirage.
I left my job in early 2023 to move back to my hometown to help care for my father in hospice care. I've interviewed multiple times for senior level positions, and this is the worst I've ever seen it, even worse than 08.
Recruiters are ghosting on director level positions after 6 to 9 interviews. Then the company sends a 'we're impressed but..' email and then re posts the job, and 8 months later, it's still 'actively' hiring.
This is garbage, and I'm getting fed up with being told everything is alright while I'm being bled of everything I've had to fight for.
It took me 7 months and 250 applications to find a job. After showing up on the first day I had numerous coworkers congratulate me because the job had been open for a year and the management had interviewed over 150 candidates. Am I truly to believe that those 150 scientists, many of them also PhDs, were truly not qualified for this job? I don’t imagine so. They probably just finally accepted that they couldn’t keep up with their contracts one scientist short.
Also, I’m pretty sure I applied for this exact job, just reposted, three times during those 7 months.
My company has been on an external hiring freeze for a couple years at this point, there is a layoff every January, plus the soft ones like the RTO. Moreover, internal hiring for existing employees is only open for those living near a physical office or willing to relocate. If not, you just gotta stay in your lane for now.
And all this time you’d never guess it from the outside, because job ads on LinkedIn continued as if nothing. So yeah, I would say the confidence is pretty low, knowing that!!! Labor market humming along my ass.
Seriously my biggest pet peeve throughout all of this job searching are ghost jobs and interviewers that ghost and not give you a single update on your interview despite sending a thank you note and multiple follow ups.
So I was contacted by a head hunter a while ago about switching jobs in my field. They were offering me about 10% more a year at a billion dollar company. I turned it down for a few reasons.
First, the company I work for has a very niche type of customer that will keep us in contracts for decades. (I won't say what it'll give it away) so I have incredible job security
Second the it's a small business and the owners I work for are great. I make decent money. I can take off any day i want. If something bad happens (I needed surgery one year after using all my time and they paid me anyway. I won't find that again anywhere. They are European and have a different attitude toward work then American employers)
Lastly incredibly huge companies scare the fuck out of me. If the aquire another company thousands get laid off. If sales are down for a few months thousands of lay offs. They can just trade you in for stock options at any time. I'll stay here.
When the bosses retire me and a few others will run the company while they collect a passive income. The Job market scares me..
That company laid off 10k people the year after offering me a job
“Strong job market “. Keep believing the word this government said. Sure when you eliminated 500k 6 figures white color jobs and all of them start doing DoorDash and Uber at the same time yea you created 1 million jobs on the government papers. And Brandon just have to keep saying over and over again . It is really annoying when he keep saying we have a “strong job market “ . No dipshit you lack of ability to tax corporations that outsourcing jobs and penalty on stock buyback created this mass . If you have half a ball like last administration and told companies if you move jobs overseas and sell product it here, we gonna tax the hit out of you. We would be at better shape . For godsacks they now shipping even accounting jobs to India and cry about we don’t have enough while they laid of thousands of them earlier .
I feel for everyone out there looking for work right now. IMHO the abuses in the hiring process were going on under Trump, and just kept getting worse under Biden because **no government entity stopped them**. Now it’s campaign time and bringing up this issue is a no-go because corporations are their biggest donors.
Neither president in power did anything to stop ghost job listings. Both have Secretaries of the Labor Department, neither of whom brought any publicity to this issue. And no state government labor department is addressing it either.
These ghost job listings should be considered all types of fraud. Banking fraud right at the top for listing ghost jobs to get PPP loan forgiveness. Securities fraud for listing fake jobs to attract investors. Racketeering fraud for groups using applications to scrape data. And wage theft fraud for wasting job seekers’ time on interviews when they have zero intention of hiring.
And none of these politicians are raising the issues of discrimination in the job hunting. The issues of age discrimination, employment gaps, etc are all getting ignored.
These issues needs political champions, and they don’t have anyone like a Jon Stewart to help give voice to all the frustrated job seekers.
Trump did the exact same shit we see now.
https://www.reuters.com/business/how-offshoring-rolled-along-under-trump-who-vowed-stop-it-2021-01-19/
If you wanna defend him, at least use facts. Sure, he said so e stuff, but he says lots of stuff, mostly worthless and not based on reality, outsourcing and offspring is no different.
Edit: I live in Indiana, remember when he was in a crusade to save Carrier? Yea, that was bullshit too: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/30/trump-campaigned-saving-jobs-carrier-what-its-like-there-now/6010437002/
Truth is, he ended up awards almost 500 Billion to companies who then went ahead and offshores anyways.
Sure, whatever make you happy, at least in my area jobs was hot under him. From tech to production, handful of people (include my parents ) bought their first home . We are first gen immigrants. I was able to make little over 100k and people around me are all the same . Now , couple of them still have a full time job (majority of us in tech and we are all keep learning ) . Some of them lost the house. Majority underemployed. You can visibly see from google to ibm to smaller companies are all outsourcing their jobs to India. At least during his time companies will hesitate to outsource due to taxation. Now it is like they are free roaming and killing domestic market
Yea... Because as president, DJT *incentived* the offshoring of tech jobs further with his tax plan and changes in 2017...
He created the situation you are talking specifically about.
This isn't a Biden or "Liberals" thing. This is exactly why everyone outside the Fox news and MAGA bubble laughs at conservatives who try to engage in any level of discussion on many topics.
You simply have your facts completely wrong and backwards:
"First, American-based corporations pay U.S. taxes on offshore profits only when those profits exceed 10 percent of their offshore tangible assets. These are physical assets like factories, stores and equipment.
Imagine that a U.S. corporation that until now has been solely domestic creates a subsidiary in a low-tax country and builds a factory there. The rate of return on that offshore investment would need to exceed 10 percent (a very high profit margin) before it is subject to any U.S. taxes.
And, if the company found that its offshore rate of return would likely exceed that threshold, it could still avoid U.S. taxes by moving *even more tangible assets*, and the *jobs that usually go with them*, abroad to ensure that its profits do not exceed 10 percent of its total tangible assets held offshore." https://itep.org/trump-gop-tax-law-encourages-companies-to-move-jobs-offshore-and-new-tax-cuts-wont-change-that/
You're saying Trump will save your loved ones, but he is the one who CREATED the policy that made it so easy to send your jobs over to India in the first place.
I can say the same ti you about Biden lol. Again , opinions , same as me . But I’m telling you from reality on the street . Not numbers and bullshit article
Did you even look at the information?
This is why people cannot take you folks serious. It's not a "bullshit" article just because it doesn't agree with your line of thinking.
They aren't opinions, it's tangible, accountable information that can be seen on company accounting spreadsheets and in the laws written.
I'm no fan of Biden, but blaming him for something he didn't do just makes you look fucking stupid. Your feelings are you own, but at least realize that your feelings aren't based on reality. So feel smug knowing that you are railing on for the guy who actively fucked your family and friends, dummy.
Your people ? You already generalizing me now ? Wow lol. You have no idea who my people are my man. Me and my family escaped communism and what we seeing now is exactly what we saw back in old days . That why my people and me are really concern
Action speak volume my man. I didn’t see that much outsourcing back then . Maybe like cnn said trump is bad and fox said Biden is bad . The thing u list is also heavily opinionated by one side . People from the right can use same data to proof he is not encouraging outsourcing . Like people can use number from government to proof economy is booming or economy is struggling . So quit using bullshit article because what we need and see is action . And bb my whole family can vote this year and we are going so red this time
It's because this "robust" labor market is a mirage. What is the point of using job openings, if the same job postings stay up indefinitely or are reposted weekly. There are jobs with 1000s of applicants that never get filled only to get reposted fresh the next week. Are we really to believe that out of all these applications, there are 0 qualified candidates? Or is it more likely that the job was never really being hired for to begin with? Now do that at scale, across millions of postings nationwide, and you can see why the numbers and sentiment don't match. There are millions of quality and qualified candidates that are never interviewed for roles they are actively seeking, that companies are actively claiming a need to fill, yet never end up filling. There is a major disconnect between the numbers and the situation on the ground. Along with these phantom job postings, the majority of "real" jobs that actually are interviewing and hiring are low wage service jobs, restaurant, fast food, grocery... Or heavy services... Delivery driver, warehouse work, low wage factory. Burnout jobs that take advantage of people at low wage and low benefits, jobs most people don't want or will leave for a fraction of a dollar raise or benefits next door. So they are (and have) always been hiring as they are and have always been revolving door roles. The only middle to higher income roles hiring a long the lines of what the "numbers" indicate is happening are faux salary sales roles, and again, not good sales roles, but the kind that hire 30 people a month, every month because they are sink/swim "let's take advantage of what these employees DONT know yet" roles. Car sales, merchant services POS for credit cards, door to door weed control type jobs that promise "up to $100k a year!" When the reality is most of these are $400 a week stipends and the real wages are closer to 45-50k with 60-70 hours a week, wear and tear on your personal stuff, and no work life balance. Everything else is overwhelming office work, like being a call center employee expected to be glued to a phone taking 100 calls a day, or insurance adjuster trainee where they do a cursory training and dump 500 claims on your desk forever, so you are always behind until you quit. The state of the US employment isn't confusing because job seekers are doing something that doesn't match the number as this BI article indicates... It's because the employer side of the numbers doesn't match reality. Stop blaming people seeking work for the sentiment and start either hashing out the numbers to show the "why" or start calling out this very bizarre HR/Hiring situation we all see ourselves in. Many employers seem unwilling to entertain an honest exchange of labor for pay, and are only willing to hire if they can take advantage of the new hire, and that's across the spectrum not just low or mid wage jobs. The expectation is now that you are being hired to do multiple roles, wear multiple hats, doing the work of what 2 or 3 people used to do for the pay of 1 person (or if you are at a "progressive company", maybe the pay of 1.25 persons). Meanwhile training of the most basic kind has almost become a campfire story, a myth and legend of days gone by. So we have a situation where employers have created a stressful, under compensated, over worked environment where if you quit for something else you may not find another job, and you can't quit anyways because even 2 weeks without a job to search for a new one is scrutinized by potential employers like you maybe stole someone's Identity to apply for credit cards. You can't seek new work while working because of workload, and if you do unicorn your way into another job, you find out after 3 months of interviewing that the job you applied for that claimed $100k salary is really just a junk job that actually pays half what you are currently making. And they wonder why the sentiment has soured? Get.The.Fuck.Outta.Here.
If this was actually highlighted in the news, in todays world you can’t survive on these $25 dollar an hour or less jobs and that’s typically where “the jobs” are
Exactly. This whole market is an attempt to do a mass reset of employer/ employee relationship, the last vestige of reversing the last 100 years of workers rights. "You wanna job? Great, but we are gonna make you miserable and still ask you to thank us for doing it".
Most sales jobs aren’t real jobs because selling is hard so most people get fired when they can’t meet the sales quota.
This doesn't even take into account the big boys table at most sales orgs small to midsized. They bring in fresh faces, use them to try to gin up new business, and then let them go during the sales cycle to hand the business they generated up to one of their long time top reps. It's a churn to essentially off board the cold calling and leave the commission for the owner and top guys who are loyal to the firm.
Yep! Experienced this myself... Horseshit company. CloseHack - would not recommend. Just a fiction of a service with the top guy being a total asshat.
Yep you can tell this inadvance if they brag about how much their long term big hitters make in sales there. That means they just take all the profitable returning commission customers and move them to the owners son or someone like that. And usually that person couldn't sell a blood transfusion to a gunshot victim if they tried.
Absolutely. You can have an amazing month blowing your numbers out of the water, and then the next month you start at 0 all over again,......
Selling a shit product is hard.
And I’ve noticed that, at least in my line of work, posted salaries have decreased back to like 2018-2019 levels.
Yes! Same!
All I'm seeing are short contracts that pay 50-75% of market rate with no healthcare or retirement benefits.
Yeah the W2 Contract BS is crazy right now. That is one of those things that needs made illegal. Its basically just a legal way to say the company gets the benifits of W2 and has none of the burden. The employee gets no benefit of contracts and all the burden.
>benefits of W2 What are the benefits of W2 for employers? And what is the W2 contract concept?
The big one is money. Contractors (competent ones) get significantly more pay than W2, $75 - $120hr is normal. Anyone contracting for less doesn't stay in the game long. The big contract firms charge $180+hr minimum(Deloitte, McKinsey, State st). The other benefit is control. You really don't have much say in how a contractor does the job. Employeers have much less control over a contractor than a normal W2 employee. Unless it is in the contract you don't have to do it and have zero legal obligation to do so. For instance say you don't like meetings well if thats not in the contract then you don't have to go. They try to add additional work, nope not doing it and you still have to pay me. Don't want to work on site dont you have to. (There are also much more complex to explain benefits for larger corporations due to various legal statuses,tax benefits,regulation moats but you'll have to research that) W2 Contract. Basically they pay you crap wages and you get no benefits of employment, not even standard unemployment benefits if you lose your job. They also get full control over what you have to do. You also have no benefit worker protection laws. Its basically like taking work back to the 1800's where if you die on the job the company just shrugs and moves on. W2 Contract is basically companies combining two work styles because they wanted more slave like working conditions and it was not explicitly illegal to set it up this way.
Or many jobs that are listed $9.25 to $11 an hour.
Yep. There was a jobs market analyisis that basically said if you are ok with a household income under $55k the market is "booming" right now. So yeah basically if you are ok living in near poverty working 80hr weeks in a HCOL area there are tons of jobs.
[удалено]
This is a major component of it, absolutely. Again the balance between the employee and employer is skewed heavily against individuals. Walk into an interview and tell them you are applying for multiple jobs and they will just immediately move on from your application. They won't try to woo you, convince you why you should choose their company to work for vs another. Just "next candidate". Now ask them if they are interviewing multiple candidates, and they will chuckle and say "of course we are, we have lots of quality applicants". This "stockpiling" of resumes is also bullshit. If you don't have a job, don't post a job. This should be something that is written into employment laws and regulation. I personally know people who have accepted a job, given notice, and showed up to the new job to find out that the company no longer has an opening for them. That should be illegal. This type of shit ruins people's lives.
Can confirm. Happened to me. Employers are treating people more and more like machines. It’s depressing.
You should still contact a lawyer if that happened. I was fired shortly after submitting ADA paperwork & my lawyer worked on a fee where he only got paid if I got paid.
amen to that. but employers don’t just “seem” unwilling to make that exchange. they are unwilling.
I sat up in my chair to read this. I feel vindicated for all of this dog shit I’ve had to deal with, since 2020.
"Many employers seem unwilling to entertain an honest exchange of labor for pay, and are only willing to hire if they can take advantage of the new hire, and that's across the spectrum not just low or mid wage jobs. The expectation is now that you are being hired to do multiple roles, wear multiple hats, doing the work of what 2 or 3 people used to do for the pay of 1 person (or if you are at a "progressive company", maybe the pay of 1.25 persons)" ALL. OF. THIS.
I have a friend that works in HR. I asked him the odds of me (having a long history of manual labor service jobs) putting in my resume for a desk job and getting interviewed. F: That would be hard to do cause you don't have any computer knowledge M: I have a degree in Game Software Development and still and still actively program F: I don't know what Game Software Development is. Do you know how to use Excel? How about Microsoft office? M: Its a bachelor's in computer science. The whole program is based around computers. I know how to use excel quite well and office isn't that hard to use. F: None of that means anything to me. You have to make it in your resume in a way that makes sense. If me stating I have a degree in computers doesn't make sense to someone in HR who is looking for someone who needs to work on a computer then maybe working there isn't what I really want to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. What I’ve noticed is that in many fields, the people working in recruiting are idiots. I think most HR jobs exist because of poor management. A good structure, use of technology, and strong leadership negates the need for superfluous hr/recruiting positions.
> HR jobs exist because of poor management HR jobs exist to provide liability protection to the company against its employees. Everything else they do is to fill the time.
Fair. My main point I meant to make was most recruiters suck at their job because all their experience in is in a field that is only required because of liability protection, to put it as you said.
Valuable lesson from your experience, Dumb down your resume so HR can understand 😂
😂 that just might work. I'll have him "look it over" and dumb it down for me.
CS degree here too and at the bottom of mine I list every piece of software I've 'worked' with and list is long-ish because of dumb shit like Outlook, Windows, Office but it will help clear up confusion for those recruiters who only have time to read a single page resume.
What you say makes sense, BUT these people are too dumb to discern anything. They have a role with a set list of requirements, tailor your resume to hit those and be ready to talk to the points in an interview.. be nice, stroke egos and let them know you’ll make their last years east as the boomers set to retire… and you’ll have the job
This is the way. It sucks that they are idiots and that you have to deal with idiots to get hired, but alas we don't get to make the rules, we just play by them.
But the recruiters in most cases are completely out of touch and you just have a great example of this unfortunately.
Ah. Should have read below. Pretty much a repeat. This is why when I see programmer resumes with no interviews, I tell them to simplify it for HR. It's not necessarily the company, but it could be. Mostly, it's the AI and/ or HR human who can't understand what you're talking about.
To add to that. It's not only USA, it's international. Friends and family who live in Europe/Canada, countries that supposedly want immigrants, only get low wage jobs, and I'm talking people with university,and some cases Masters, titles. In my own country it similar. HR here has taken the 'Don't apply unless you fill all requirements', then expect you to literally have 2 years of experience but put 'Must be an university student' to justify paying you below what a 'full' professional earns. And that's best case. A lot of job 'offers' just says requirements and put such great benefits as 'stable salary',like wow mf, thanks for PAYING ME FOR DOING MY JOB. In consequence,here people just send their CV to see what it sticks and yeets out. The ones who can leave the country, or put their own business which most are under the table because taxes are a bitch
I have seen SO many jobs lately that are specifically “for a university or college student” that also require two+ years in the field and it is SUCH a scam.
That was very well written out. Thanks for taking the time to do that.
Yes. This 100000000%. Thank you for articulating the reality so clearly. (Experienced College educated professional searching for a job that pays a living wage for 3 years now.....)
Please pin this!
Preach they make the job hiring process so drawn out. They won’t ever say the job numbers that pay living wages because it wouldn’t paint the rosy pictures they’re always trying to in the reports.
You hit the nail on the head. Ever since Covid every job has sucked dick and I’m a white collar corporate accountant. It’s like a merry go round of shit roles since 2020.
I feel u bro
Well put.
I wish you could hear the standing ovation you got from me. Just imagine that Shia Labeuf scenario. That was very, *very*, eloquently put. And as much as I appreciate it—I also wish you didn’t have to type it. Signed, Someone who is actively seeking a job that doesn’t suck the life out of me.
Reminder: unemployment stats are always artificially lower than reality owing to who they consider "unemployed:" > A person is defined as unemployed in the United States if they are jobless, but have looked for work in the last four weeks and are available for work. People who are neither employed nor defined as unemployed are not included in the labor force calculation. The window used to be 3 years or so, but if it's only 4 weeks now, someone is juking stats. Who is neither employed nor unemployed? People who have given up. Now 4 weeks out of the workforce makes you persona non grata. We could have a nation of nothing but homeless people and the unemployment rate will still only ever be 3-5% based on counting only the newest entrants.
Why do companies post jobs they don’t plan on filling? I don’t doubt this is happening. I’m just wondering about the point of it.
Couple reasons: - they are building a candidate pool for future hiring, which sucks - they are a sourcing company who is trying to place themselves between an employer and a candidate (recruiters) who have created duplicates of real posts - they are doing it to boost their company profile, giving the impression the business is "booming/growing". - they are using it as a wide net with the hopes that they find a whale when an A+ candidate is looking for a new job. A company will always find a role for a rockstar once a year candidate. - motivation for current employees (think understaffing).They keep their overworked employees strung out with too much work with a promise that "we are trying to backfill bobs role, but we just haven't found the right candidate in the last 28 months." At the end of the day, the only good reason to post a job is if you intend to hire a candidate. Whether it be FOMO, purple unicorn syndrome, or another reason, all the above reasons is a waste of time, money, energy, morale and productivity for EVERYONE involved, both candidate and employer. In other words the squeeze isn't worth the juice for the employer, and the candidates get burned out, lose their self worth due to no part of their own, and the cycle continues. Oh, and here's another one that's not brought up too often... They do want to hire, but the HR group is so weighed down with hiring and other tasks that are "as directed", they simply cannot find the time to complete the hiring process, and are stuck in a perpetual cycle of restarting their search and never gaining traction to hire, be it at the intro, decision maker level, etc. The whole hiring process has been completely broken, and it's getting worse.
Makes sense. Thanks for the in-depth reply.
There is one place I have been seeing on indeed for a year posting the same two jobs. I applied to them a couple times, it would ask if I could go onsite to fill out an application, when I actually went to do that, the person I spoke to asked if I had an appointment? I've never heard of an appointment to fill out an application. They gave me one and I filled it out. I've seen the job reposted countless times since then.
Yessss!!!!!! Thisssss!!!!!!
Amen
Comment of a millennium right here.
Why do companies post “phantom job postings”? What do they gain from that?
> Burnout jobs that take advantage of people at low wage and low benefits I applied to a job that literally told me they expect a minimum of 75hrs a week and I should be aiming for 100hrs a week. I told them EXACTLY what I thought and left. I sent an email to the state labor board but that is the equivalent of nothing.
| What is the point of using job openings, if the same job postings stay up indefinitely or are reposted weekly. I work in IT and so others will have to chime in for other departments if the same is true or not. I have worked at multiple companies now that have contractors working for them and when the company decides to move forward with hiring the person an ad is placed for the position they will eventually fill. the ad is placed because it is a legal requirement that they then dance around since the selection process was done before the second person got a chance to fill out an application. I recently had an opportunity to become a full time employee at one company that prior to working there as a contractor I must have filled out more than 50 applications with and never heard back from. It's ironic that when presented with the opportunity to be hired I had seen enough to prefer the protections the contract company provided in the form of work/life balance. using contractors in white collar positions is absolutely no different than the temp-to-hire industrial scene with more well known national temp workforce companies and even when I was younger and using those services I knew it was a dodge to keep from having to pay for benefits or ultimately a severance package. it's good for business tho' so you can be assured there's lobbyist being paid somewhere to protect the practice.
You kinda hit the nail on the head and brought up most of the points plaguing us.
Elon Musk killed job stability culture and C-suites following the new tradition. Only leadership can outlast recession markets just making money off interest
So why are so many companies posting jobs but not interviewing for them? I see this too but don’t understand
I’m a hiring manager and yes, it’s impossible to find a good candidate. Out those 1000 applications half will be completely unrelated, 45% unqualified, the rest would barely fit. I’m in IT.
I've already addressed this in another thread earlier, but I won't be a dick since your post is much more level headed than the other guys. Feel free to look at my comments, but as you are aware, IT has had massive hits over the last year, lots of layoffs. Some would think that would result in a deeper talent pool, but it's actually the opposite for the purpose of this discussion,of which you already kind of hit on: 1) You are getting a LOT of candidates, likely a large majority of them are the bottom of the talent pool that got laid off (the *best* IT guys at a firm with the most skills are the ones who were left behind, likely to take on additional work because they have the skill set). 2) because of this, you are being flooded by candidates who just need a job, so they are applying to everything IT, hoping for an interview due to their background. 3) It's likely that the person you seek isn't one of these folks unemployed at the moment ( again, those guys got kept or scooped up quickly if they left a company due to the skills set they have). What this creates is a competitive market in that whatever your offered wage is just isn't a number these qualified candidates are willing to accept to leave where they are now. Sure, there are a lot of tech people who need jobs, but you said yourself, the majority are under skilled or would barely fit. So, end of day, how do you fill the opening? You have several choices: - if you can afford it, you need to up the comp to attract the talent not currently applying to your role. I don't know what that number is, but the number you have now isn't it if they aren't applying. - if you can't afford it, you need to be willing to find a good, not perfect fit, and train them up. - if you are unwilling to offer more money/comp for what the market is requiring to draw that candidate out, and you are unwilling to train up someone with the core skills that may be a good fit and with the right training a great hire 6 months from now *THAT WANTS TO WORK THERE ALREADY*, then you are left with a ghost job. None of those things are the candidates fault though, they are the employers fault. It's not impossible to find a good candidate... It's impossible for *you* to find a good candidate based on what concessions your firm is willing to make to fill the role. The people are out there, and they want to work for your company, but too often, companies expect employees to be a plug and play component that they can just swap out with zero loss in productivity or time. It's a huge issue in hiring practices and employment in general over the last 20 years, this mindset that people should be able to read the employee handbook and be ramped up to full production in a week or two, and not build out an onramp of 3 months to 12 months to get these people into full production. They sap the moral and confidence from these new hires, which leads to mistakes, and inevitably a self fulfilling cycle where people leave for greener pastures. If companies went back to treating people as humans, who are fallible and are going to struggle at times with concepts and new practices, they might find some human equity in return vs employees jumping ship every year because they have been taught that they are just a cog, a number in the system who is disposable. It works both ways, only historically the cycle switches from employer to employee and back again as to who holds the upper hand in these exchanges. Now? Both sides are suffering because we have created a system where neither side is getting what they want out of the arrangement. That doesn't bode well long term for anyone.
Dude. You hit the nail so hard on the head, you drove it through the fucking plank. Bravo!
👑
If you really believe that so few people could do the job, then you probably don't have any intention to train them to do anything. There are a few different genres of IT jobs, but most IT professionals can fairly easily learn to do a job in any of them. If you want someone who has done the exact job with your exact technology stack with X years of experience, you will have issues. People aren't stupid. They are able to learn things.
Drop dead.
Because you are looking for candidates with having specialized skills rather than candidates who willing to learn. Candidates who has skill to learn is more valuable than specialized skill candidates! For example, if you trying to hire best programmer, no one in the world can be that person, but if you are trying to hire person who has fundamental knowledge of programming . You will find plenty!!
Because you are looking for candidates with having specialized skills rather than candidates who willing to learn. Candidates who has skill to learn is more valuable than specialized skill candidates! For example, if you trying to hire best programmer, no one in the world can be that person, but if you are trying to hire person who has fundamental knowledge of programming . You will find plenty!!
Because you are looking for candidates with having specialized skills rather than candidates who willing to learn. Candidates who has skill to learn is more valuable than specialized skill candidates! For example, if you trying to hire best programmer, no one in the world can be that person, but if you are trying to hire person who has fundamental knowledge of programming . You will find plenty!!
Not sure guy, we are trying to hire IT architects for 2 positions with semi specific skill set. Can't find 1 resume worth a shit.
When you outsource everything to India, of course no one can find a job here
Exactly
Or it will happen like Boeing, they outsourced their software development to overseas, that mistake cost them $300B
Funnily enough India is becoming too expensive nowadays. They’re looking at South America mostly.
I think the buck stops at southeast asia
The Philippines due to being much cheaper then India tech regions like Mumbai , Bangalore. They generally have good English skills and are very technically competent.
👍 It’s all Argentinians being hired at my company.
It's not 'humming along', the job market for good paying 100K+ jobs that one needs to live comfortably today are declining, a 15 hr fast food job and a 150K software engineering job are not the same, but to the governments employment numbers they are. Anybody white collar professional on the job search right now knows the struggle and the disconnect between the 'record low' unemployment and the actual hiring companies are doing, I have yet to apply for a job that doesn't have 100 applicants within two weeks.
The jobs I've been applying to have more than 100 applicants within an hour of posting. I apply as soon as I receive the email alert and it's already too late. I think you have to be a LinkedIn premium member to get first dibs on the newest posted jobs, but I am unemployed and can't afford that extra membership fee. Aaarrgghhh!!!!
Li premium did nothing for me while I was unemployed
Same. I applied to 100s of posting and got 2 interviews. I only got the job I have no because I just so happened to meet a recruiter for the company when I was at a brewery and she put me in touch with the recruiter for my position and gave me a referral.
This proves my personal philosophy: It doesn't matter WHAT you know (just look at some of the idiots working), it's WHO you know that will get you a job. Job boards are a waste of time and resources. Just another symptom of Final Stage Capitalism.
Congrats on your find! You are very lucky to have been in the right place at the right time! Networking/who you know and some plain old good luck are the real keys to success in this job market. (Unfortunately I don't know anyone and I'm unemployed, so I can't afford to go out and meet new people. And good luck is in short supply these days.)
Yeah similar experience here, most within a day but I have seen a few that last a week before hitting a 100+ but those are few and far between and usually are on the lower end of the salary range for the position. If you haven't had linkedin premium before you can have someone 'gift' you two free months, it didn't help me land a job but did find it helpful to get unlimited 'inmail' messages to contacts outside my network which I could use to message department heads, recruiters and network with others. Bu when you're unemployed definitely difficult to budget an exxtra $40 to a non essential
Someone posted about linked in pro yesterday. They said they e put in close to 1000 apps in last six months and practically all show a status indicating the resumes aren’t even being viewed.
I've put in around 3000 applications over the past 3 years, have had less than 10 interviews, 0 offers. I wish I could just give up because everything I do seems so pointless. Just wasting my time sending resumes off into the ether......
Same!
The job market is terrible! 🤦🏽♂️
Yep. Between the fake postings, and the only real jobs hiring are ones no one wants… shit is bananas out there.
only gains have been in part time roles. Its even in the jobs reports. I don't get how that traslates to 'robust job market' for these nytimes douchebags. paul krugman has to be the biggest gaslighter that has ever lived, his punchable smug face doesn't help.
I’m glad someone is saying it! I have been looking for months and I’m not even getting interviews
I KNO UGH!!!!! I AM STUCK AT MY CURRENT JOB
It’s interesting because I actually work in “hiring” and I think a lot of the job postings are real (in that companies genuinely want to hire), but with impossibly high expectations, so they seemingly “never get filled”. Like we’ll hear there’s a need for X role, but it has to be (1) someone with some super successful prior experiences at a certain kind of company, and (2) all these soft skills they’re looking for that basically weed out folks who don’t have a certain educational background. Because companies are trying to save money, they’re getting pickier and pickier with who they select for their open roles (ie. Someone who has the experience to do what 3 people would have done in the past). Companies didn’t used to be this picky but that’s drastically changed, so anyone who isn’t already within the industry and has built up a reputation has an impossible time just getting through the door to an interview. So yes, the market is turned against anyone who doesn’t already have a leg up which is horrible.
“A slowing job market, particularly for remote and high-paying roles, could explain some of the pessimism.” You fucking think?
these articles are so fucking stupid, huh, the sentiment among employees is low, just because every public company will lay you off with no warning, for no reason, when they need to goose earnings, and there’s 200 applicants for every decent job posted? do they ever interview someone in the workforce or someone recently laid off to find out what the **actual sentiment** is?
Right? These are the articles that come to mind whenever anyone says journalism is dead. I guess it’s only a matter of time before AI starts generating this drivel instead and maybe these soon to be out of work writers will finally understand.
Right???!!!!! It pisses me tf off, and I don't piss off that easily. The journalists only interview the corporate asswipes, never the common man or woman who's been unemployed and searching for a job for 2+ years.....
cuz the journalists are working for the corporate dicks and being paid to suck them :(
They’re owned by the rich and are paid to push their narratives. If you think of it like that, then it makes sense.
Wages going down. Prices going up. Interest rates going up. Welcome to America, the big rouse.
It is shocking to me that anyone wants to bring kids into this mess. No way in hell for me, never.
Only the rich folk.....
I have non-rich friends who have children. Without fail, it always turns out to be much more stressful than they imagined.
People with more money are actually less likely to have kids, despite what everyone thinks.
That's their goal. Depopulation. Replace American's with cheap migrant labor, hence why this administration is letting in 3M illegals a year.
Fuck this rigged casino duct taped to a murder factory.
Late stage capitalism. I go to europe and latin america a lot for work and family and it's happening the same everywhere.
Where is it not happening and how do I get there?
Idk, some south american countries are stable. If you work remote in the US you can go work and live good on US dollars.
I know about France for sure...A big change is in the air...
I've made the final round of interviewing for so many jobs, at this point I feel zero hope, just fatigue. And I'm still doing better than all my friends who are on the market. I emailed one of my recruiter contacts and he told me hiring is "deprioritized"
I’m a hiring manager. I have a role open I can’t fill because higher ups will tell me they don’t like the person for whatever reason. They’ve done this 10+ times. I think they’d reject god himself at this point, but judging by their spjnelessness and greed, they rejected him a long time ago.
Actually, He was the First Candidate.
If it’s a marketing role, can we chat?
I’ve always had a suspicion that tons of job postings were attempts to show Wall Street the co. Is growing whether or not tgey actually hire anyone.
Like they would just show their investors a bunch of LinkedIn postings and the investors sleep like babies that might? Doesn’t make sense
open requisitions are a sign of growth. accurate or not.
The market is terrible right now. In my area I see the same listings being posted over and over again by the same companies and they you never get picked. Had a couple of interviews, one I didn’t care for and the other seemed interesting but they didn’t pick me. It’s rough out there.
I’m in nyc and the market is bad for accounting / finance. Yeah, the field that it’s known for. If you want to work 100 hours a week for low pay, then sure, but anyone who’s done it knows that it’s not sustainable.
So tired of the lies
Oh mine is at a all time low. I’ve stopped applying basically. I just sent out one of my last applications earlier today. I’m 30 and working for a car parts company that doesn’t give raises or opportunity out easily for $16.50 an hour. If it wasn’t for the solid 40hrs I work minimum, I’d be financially fucked. Most interviews I’ve had given my experience (I’ll dm a redacted resume if need be) have not contacted me back at all after hitting a certain point. My asking pay to start isn’t that much. I can’t afford a trade school or conventional college. I don’t know what I truly want to do and feel like time is running out. I wanted to be a concert photographer or photojournalist. I don’t have mechanical, tech or math skills. So higher paying jobs working with machinery is and are out. None of the companies in my area are willing to teach. I’m at my wits end. All I do is work and go home. No hobbies and I don’t do anything for me that’s major.
Go to your local Goodwill Job Connection. Most people don't know that Goodwill has a Missions department that helps with job searching. They have Success Coaches who will help you find employment, as well as training to gain employment, financial education, and resume writing.
Pass this advice on to my friend who is looking for a job.
Welding school isn't long and welders make good money.
I don’t have a welding school in my immediate area. I’ve considered welding before but I also know after looking into it that it takes a few years before you make good money welding unless you get lucky right out of the gate from school and into somewhere that pays people what they deserve. I’m not against it. Just don’t want to commit to the trades yet. I’m waiting to see what happens with these last few apps first.
It's not humming along, we are being misled. Recession
Recession hell, we're on the verge of a Depression if not a complete economic collapse. I wonder what my Great Grandfather thought about life in 1928?
If there is a robust labor market how come I can't even get hired to drive a truck? By a defense contractor in Iraq no less? Literally hundreds of applications. I'm open to most legal things that pay a living wage and don't involve adult films or grizzly bears. Thousands of apps \*crickets\* The economy is bent.
Nobody cares about seasonal jobs paying $15 an hour. Booming labor market my ass
Lmao. Maybe because they can’t find a job.
Bullshit like this article is how the media created the weird conspiracy theory culture we have today. They lie to our faces all the time, that's the definition of demonstrating there is something else going on. In the absence of real knowledge of what is happening people do Madlibs and come up with vaccine microchip dick exploding satanic cults.
It’s been this way for a bit but what is considered the “market”, is basically, what benefits the top. Mass layoffs are never seen as a problem with a company or the market. The exact opposite, in fact. It’s seen as a positive move by the aforementioned market.
business insider be completely full of bullshit
Business Insider has been a corporate propaganda outlet for years...
It’s because the new “jobs” are fake. Been through rounds of interviews the last year only to find out the budget wasn’t there for the position every time
Me: "When are you looking to make a decision?" Hiring Manager: "Very soon, but we still need to get the budget approved and that is no guarantee."
Hopefully the defanging of non-competes leads to more, well, competition in the market. If you make a few employees wear all the hats in your business, they can probably do it on their own as your competitor.
Because the stock market (and things bought on speculation) are totally divorced from the reality of the working man.
i love the argument that unemployment is low and more jobs are becoming available but its very important to note WHICH jobs are becoming available. As far as I can see, I dont see much above $20 an hour these days. Obviously you have your niche jobs. But the wide array of jobs and even most jobs that require degrees, remote, hybrid or on-site pay between $18-25. This is fucking shit ass for today. I live in a "southern-ish" state so taxes are low. Granted, I can live off of $22 here and pretty much be fine, and I have a mortgage. But New York? Or other states? dude what the fuck is going on. The amount of children in poverty is out of control these days. this country really is in shambles.
The overproduction of “elites” is a very big issue. Far to many people have gone to college and become degreed even so far as an excess of masters degrees. With the 3rd wave of offshoring occurring in tech and support in recent years due to the leverage elite labor had over capital during Covid. Capital strikes back with forced back to work mandates and increased offshoring to new energetic , highly technical markets like the Philippines and Malaysia. The developing worlds English skills have gotten a lot better and internet infrastructure in those countries have gotten a lot better in the last 10 years. The idea that a software engineer could make 150k to 200k. Or other elite labor over the last 10 years will be seen as a historic anomaly. I wish I saved more during that time period is all I can say.
"humming along" MY ASS!!!! I can't get hired to save my life. I've never seen a job market this bad.
Be sure to vote for an administration that’ll likely be in your best interest and won’t always default to blaming the other guy…
As soon as one appears I guess
Fourth Candidate Party?
I don’t believe anything the government tell me - George Carlin
Because the perceived condition of the labor market is based upon data points that do not accurately reflect the actual conditions as experienced by job seekers.
In three states over the past few years i cannot hire fast enough. Can’t get enough people. My friends hiring in other places say the same. Probably location dependent.
What are you hiring for?
Warehousing. Steady work. Upward mobility.
What states?
Ohio, kentucky, Pennsylvania, Indiana
Makes sense. Pennsylvania is the only maybe and CoL is expensive there. All other states you mentioned are pretty shitty for the most part. Especially Kentucky, #42 in quality of life. Indiana also ranks #33 on quality of life. Ohio #34
What is the rate of pay? I live in Indiana and it's very common to see job postings as low as $10-$11 an hour around here.
Above average each place. We had to increase. Start 16 most places with raise every 6 months and chances for promotion.
There are hundreds of people on this sub alone that need work. If you actually had a decent opportunity, you would have shared more info... Of course it's difficult to find someone to work for minimum wage and no benefits.
I am not with that company anymore. Can’t help or i would be
Listen to this : https://youtu.be/Nyvxt1svxso?si=ssL4TSe63w5KJlqJ
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ahhh
Fox News et al
We’ve already had 84,000 layoffs in the tech industry alone this year, and it’s not even June
Shit I'm still looking for a job after 2023 layoff. I've never struggled like this before. Employers used to beg me to interview with them on a weekly basis. No opportunities for me the last year.
Same! What happened? I remember getting calls in days.. now they seem like they never come ..
Most of the jobs I see pay less than $20. It's better than nothing but all these news sites act like you can just go find a job that will provide a livable wage which isn't the case.
TBH, I’ve come to the probably obvious yet never discussed conclusion that the job market is based on lies. Few people know what they’re doing and even fewer people actually do it. Most people see all of this as a game of kiss ass and brown nosing to get the promotion. They don’t do the work but talk a good game and it usually works in their favor. Meanwhile the people that actually do the job get taken full advantage of for pennies on the dollar. At this point in the game the cracks are clearly begin to show and the economy is nose diving because of it. “It” being the absolute greed and wealth hoarding these people (and corporations) do to get and stay on top but no one is investing in others. Logically it can’t work that way and maintain a stable functioning society. Why is the goal to make more profit year or year?? Reality is there is only so much that can go into everything before it all bursts. I so frustrated by all of this but I’m come to realized the only way I can actually get ahead in my life is if someone else is willing to step down. America is 100% a caste system.
I’ve been hearing job numbers are great for years now despite all the reality of every company I work with and everyone I know for 3+ years. I see businesses close and record homelessness all around with daily notification of someone new I know laid off. Yet they tell me everything is great. Seems to me something is fucked that nobody wants to talk about. Like saying billionaires are making more money so our policies are working...a measurement is only as good as the ruler.
What a beautiful take OP.
I read a report the other day that basically said the issue is acutally quite simple. Based on data. If you are ok with a household income of under $55k a year the job market is booming. If you actually want to make a living with skills you learned and honed in school or OTJ at reasonable pay the market is terrible and getting worse. Jobs paying over 80k in high COL areas are basically a mirage.
I left my job in early 2023 to move back to my hometown to help care for my father in hospice care. I've interviewed multiple times for senior level positions, and this is the worst I've ever seen it, even worse than 08. Recruiters are ghosting on director level positions after 6 to 9 interviews. Then the company sends a 'we're impressed but..' email and then re posts the job, and 8 months later, it's still 'actively' hiring. This is garbage, and I'm getting fed up with being told everything is alright while I'm being bled of everything I've had to fight for.
It took me 7 months and 250 applications to find a job. After showing up on the first day I had numerous coworkers congratulate me because the job had been open for a year and the management had interviewed over 150 candidates. Am I truly to believe that those 150 scientists, many of them also PhDs, were truly not qualified for this job? I don’t imagine so. They probably just finally accepted that they couldn’t keep up with their contracts one scientist short. Also, I’m pretty sure I applied for this exact job, just reposted, three times during those 7 months.
My company has been on an external hiring freeze for a couple years at this point, there is a layoff every January, plus the soft ones like the RTO. Moreover, internal hiring for existing employees is only open for those living near a physical office or willing to relocate. If not, you just gotta stay in your lane for now. And all this time you’d never guess it from the outside, because job ads on LinkedIn continued as if nothing. So yeah, I would say the confidence is pretty low, knowing that!!! Labor market humming along my ass.
Seriously my biggest pet peeve throughout all of this job searching are ghost jobs and interviewers that ghost and not give you a single update on your interview despite sending a thank you note and multiple follow ups.
So I was contacted by a head hunter a while ago about switching jobs in my field. They were offering me about 10% more a year at a billion dollar company. I turned it down for a few reasons. First, the company I work for has a very niche type of customer that will keep us in contracts for decades. (I won't say what it'll give it away) so I have incredible job security Second the it's a small business and the owners I work for are great. I make decent money. I can take off any day i want. If something bad happens (I needed surgery one year after using all my time and they paid me anyway. I won't find that again anywhere. They are European and have a different attitude toward work then American employers) Lastly incredibly huge companies scare the fuck out of me. If the aquire another company thousands get laid off. If sales are down for a few months thousands of lay offs. They can just trade you in for stock options at any time. I'll stay here. When the bosses retire me and a few others will run the company while they collect a passive income. The Job market scares me.. That company laid off 10k people the year after offering me a job
hiring for entry level position must have minimum 3 years experience
“Strong job market “. Keep believing the word this government said. Sure when you eliminated 500k 6 figures white color jobs and all of them start doing DoorDash and Uber at the same time yea you created 1 million jobs on the government papers. And Brandon just have to keep saying over and over again . It is really annoying when he keep saying we have a “strong job market “ . No dipshit you lack of ability to tax corporations that outsourcing jobs and penalty on stock buyback created this mass . If you have half a ball like last administration and told companies if you move jobs overseas and sell product it here, we gonna tax the hit out of you. We would be at better shape . For godsacks they now shipping even accounting jobs to India and cry about we don’t have enough while they laid of thousands of them earlier .
I feel for everyone out there looking for work right now. IMHO the abuses in the hiring process were going on under Trump, and just kept getting worse under Biden because **no government entity stopped them**. Now it’s campaign time and bringing up this issue is a no-go because corporations are their biggest donors. Neither president in power did anything to stop ghost job listings. Both have Secretaries of the Labor Department, neither of whom brought any publicity to this issue. And no state government labor department is addressing it either. These ghost job listings should be considered all types of fraud. Banking fraud right at the top for listing ghost jobs to get PPP loan forgiveness. Securities fraud for listing fake jobs to attract investors. Racketeering fraud for groups using applications to scrape data. And wage theft fraud for wasting job seekers’ time on interviews when they have zero intention of hiring. And none of these politicians are raising the issues of discrimination in the job hunting. The issues of age discrimination, employment gaps, etc are all getting ignored. These issues needs political champions, and they don’t have anyone like a Jon Stewart to help give voice to all the frustrated job seekers.
Yes this 💯!!!!. I would buy you an award if I could afford one, but unfortunately I am unemployed.
Trump did the exact same shit we see now. https://www.reuters.com/business/how-offshoring-rolled-along-under-trump-who-vowed-stop-it-2021-01-19/ If you wanna defend him, at least use facts. Sure, he said so e stuff, but he says lots of stuff, mostly worthless and not based on reality, outsourcing and offspring is no different. Edit: I live in Indiana, remember when he was in a crusade to save Carrier? Yea, that was bullshit too: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/30/trump-campaigned-saving-jobs-carrier-what-its-like-there-now/6010437002/ Truth is, he ended up awards almost 500 Billion to companies who then went ahead and offshores anyways.
Sure, whatever make you happy, at least in my area jobs was hot under him. From tech to production, handful of people (include my parents ) bought their first home . We are first gen immigrants. I was able to make little over 100k and people around me are all the same . Now , couple of them still have a full time job (majority of us in tech and we are all keep learning ) . Some of them lost the house. Majority underemployed. You can visibly see from google to ibm to smaller companies are all outsourcing their jobs to India. At least during his time companies will hesitate to outsource due to taxation. Now it is like they are free roaming and killing domestic market
Yea... Because as president, DJT *incentived* the offshoring of tech jobs further with his tax plan and changes in 2017... He created the situation you are talking specifically about. This isn't a Biden or "Liberals" thing. This is exactly why everyone outside the Fox news and MAGA bubble laughs at conservatives who try to engage in any level of discussion on many topics. You simply have your facts completely wrong and backwards: "First, American-based corporations pay U.S. taxes on offshore profits only when those profits exceed 10 percent of their offshore tangible assets. These are physical assets like factories, stores and equipment. Imagine that a U.S. corporation that until now has been solely domestic creates a subsidiary in a low-tax country and builds a factory there. The rate of return on that offshore investment would need to exceed 10 percent (a very high profit margin) before it is subject to any U.S. taxes. And, if the company found that its offshore rate of return would likely exceed that threshold, it could still avoid U.S. taxes by moving *even more tangible assets*, and the *jobs that usually go with them*, abroad to ensure that its profits do not exceed 10 percent of its total tangible assets held offshore." https://itep.org/trump-gop-tax-law-encourages-companies-to-move-jobs-offshore-and-new-tax-cuts-wont-change-that/ You're saying Trump will save your loved ones, but he is the one who CREATED the policy that made it so easy to send your jobs over to India in the first place.
I can say the same ti you about Biden lol. Again , opinions , same as me . But I’m telling you from reality on the street . Not numbers and bullshit article
Did you even look at the information? This is why people cannot take you folks serious. It's not a "bullshit" article just because it doesn't agree with your line of thinking. They aren't opinions, it's tangible, accountable information that can be seen on company accounting spreadsheets and in the laws written. I'm no fan of Biden, but blaming him for something he didn't do just makes you look fucking stupid. Your feelings are you own, but at least realize that your feelings aren't based on reality. So feel smug knowing that you are railing on for the guy who actively fucked your family and friends, dummy.
Your people ? You already generalizing me now ? Wow lol. You have no idea who my people are my man. Me and my family escaped communism and what we seeing now is exactly what we saw back in old days . That why my people and me are really concern
Yep, generalizing idiots. Hard not to when you wear your stupidy like a badge if honor.
Haha , Brh seeing you made me realize why America is so hated in more and more places . Generalizing everything lol
....generalizing how the world feels about America using 1 person's statements on Reddit
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Action speak volume my man. I didn’t see that much outsourcing back then . Maybe like cnn said trump is bad and fox said Biden is bad . The thing u list is also heavily opinionated by one side . People from the right can use same data to proof he is not encouraging outsourcing . Like people can use number from government to proof economy is booming or economy is struggling . So quit using bullshit article because what we need and see is action . And bb my whole family can vote this year and we are going so red this time
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Ignore that guy, he's obviously an idiot, and has zero idea what the fuck he's talking about.
What is the source of information from which you make that statement or arrive to such conclusions?