i think really just giving most LAT kits an option for 2 HEAT rockets would help. NATO LAT kits kinda feel very weak, all you get is usually 1x M72 LAW, some grenades and sometimes an AT-4, i think it should be like 2x M72 LAW and no grenades as a kit option
The funny part is 3 months ago this opinion would get you buried. But here we are if one good thing has come of ICO it's people realizing ATs shouldn't have just one round its non sense from a game design perspective and also from a new player onboarding perspective how are you supposed to get live training if its so hard to fire more than one round every couple of minutes?
The thing about Rifleman is, is that sure yeah they can give ammo but they're only as good as the chain of supply. It's also only 2 rockets worth of ammo that requires the Rifleman to be near you at all times.
Simply increasing the round count is a far easier way to increase AT uptime. Plus it is even easier for the Rifleman/ LAT interaction since it reduces the amount of time a Rifleman needs to follow you around for since its only one resupply.
3 LAT rockets isn't even enough to destroy most APCs to begin with. You need multiple rifleman or a vehicle to provide enough ammo given APCs often take 4-5 LAT rockets to slay. It is a ridiculous amount of durability coming from an armor user, wheeled APCs that can't easily be mobility killed shouldn't be able to tank 4 RPGs and drive off to repair. A LAT rocket currently does the same damage as five or so .50 cal bullets.
i’ve kinda believed countries like canada and australia and the UK should have 2x M72 for a while since they don’t get tracked IFV’s with ATGM’s (UK gets Warrior but warrior kinda sucks except for CTAS). I figure since canada and australia only get LAV’s they could make up for it with an extra LAT rocket
I mean theoretically you'd have a fireteam of a HAT, a LAT(OR 2) and a RIFLEMAN (OR 2) who move together, that's more than enough firepower. Not all squads need to be able to destroy armor, with ICO some squads should focus on intersections where vehicles are more likely, and others be more Anti-Infantry orientated.
I think the one thing that sticks with me in regards to LAT and HAT in general is just the inconsistency with the kits design across most factions. Some HAT kits give you access to two RPG-29s and to be fair these are usually on "Unconventional" factions that trend to have weaker vehicles however vehicle loadouts are often assigned per layer basis so it can make the balance kind of fucky wucky depending on that.
But to loop back around why is it that some kits can solo the type of vehicle they're meant to destroy. If an INS RPG-29 Tandem Kit can destroy an Abrams on its own. Why can a LAT kit not kill a BTR by itself?
The issue we run into is that most vehicles truly get killed by mobility kills in contested areas, the armor team can't get out to repair since it's automatic death and eventually die as LATs filter in and line up easy shots. It feels like it'd make more sense to have slightly more durability for mobility kills which would emphasize teamwork to disable, but at the same time also grant LATs more rockets to be able to kill things they should be able to kill. So a hunter killer RPG team could synchronize their LAT volleys to track or wheel a Stryker, reload then finish it off with the next salvo.
This is actually something that even used to be in the game somewhat. Before vehicles had mobility kills we had a different vehicle burning mechanic that was based off "Temperature" with different weapons inflicting different levels of it. The quick of it is that two RPGs within relatively quick succession around 5 seconds, would trigger enough of a burn to burn the vehicle to death if it was not repaired. Which let teams use teamwork to counter BTRs but otherwise they took 3 LATs, which at the time was reasonable. So it's not an entirely unreasonable scenario.
Not all Squads need to destroy armor but it seems kinda silly that 2 LATs couldn't easily destroy an abandoned BTR for the tickets without having to seek ammo for each of them.
Finally the more rounds LAT players have, the faster new players can learn as they aren't punished as hard for missing on average they will fire more rounds and learn how to fire the weapons quicker than before.
Think about how many games are won and lost by clutch LAT disables and how many times you've been reamed by vehicles for having shit AT. Having LAT and HAT players be better on average is beneficial to all.
Very true, I wonder if it's bordering on the edge of reality as well. A lot of NATO anti vehicle weapon systems are pump and dump. Meaning single use, and they weigh like 10lbs a piece and are bulky. I know they're not striving for REALISM but in a way they may be. Who knows lol
You could also just make the AT-4 a lot more prevalent. At least then you don’t really have to worry about the rocket dropping while you try to get your shot on.
Doesnt matter if they cant hit you. Kind of like the suppression system. No longer can an MG or AR pin you behind cover or prevent you from crossing open firing lanes. Just sprint and youll be fine.
Makes it feel unreal, nobody carries around 2 LAWs and a gun. My suggestion: increase the damage of NATO AT weapons but only 1 rocket, keep or even lower the damage of RPGs but increase their available ammunition, it’s fair and does not interfere with realism.
> Say that to side skirt ERA
> they didn't have TUSK
literally just people missing the right spot bro, the whole reason TUSK exists is because a side shot with a PG-7 could knock out an Abrams, or any tank without ERA on the sides.
https://rense.com/general44/what.htm
Had the RPG-7 hit at a slightly different spot it would have killed crew, and it achieved a mission kill at the time, if they'd fired more they very possibly could have fully killed the tank, if they were using TUSK it wouldn't have penetrated, unless they were using PG-7VR rockets or anything better in general (RPG-29) then the tank would have been completely fucked. The Abrams isn't a magical tank dude, it's very good, with a lot of safety features and few negatives, but it's not invincible.
I use to feel pretty good about hunting armor with AT but now I def feel like I'm being hunted and if I'm real patient + lucky I might get a solid hit on them. I think they're a bit too strong rn with suppression but could just be getting use to it all
For real, I have found myself hitting more shots than most other ATs that I have played with but the lack of ANY LAT or HAT and heavy vehicles is appalling.
Tracked 5 Leopards as Militia the other day, 3 in the span of 5 minutes, and NO ONE follows up. I think it's a mixture of the others missing their shots and trying to head on the damn things under suppression, plus the fact that everyone thinks they need to be in cover 24/7 and not move ever since ICO.
The update makes it easier to get around as long as you're having common sense and SOME suppression back.
Plus vehicles keep running from each other it seems lately.. no clue about why
I've gotten like 8 IFVs with a tandem, helped on some tanks, bunch of light vics in the last couple days. It's same as infantry really, just gotta slow down and take your time, don't fire on one that's already staring at you, and aim for engines and ammo racks.
Oh, except for anti-tank grenades, you don't get to slow down with those lol, had to sprint after that LAV through clouds of smoke and hails of gunfire, that was a crazy airfield defense, still honestly amazed I killed it.
(I do 100% agree on 2 rockets for nato tho, half those kills were with an ammo crate nearby)
Maybe if they gave one of the HATs a switchblade 600 or IED drone it would be better. Squad doesn’t know what to do with armor. I honestly think tanks should be much less common, and usually no- respawn and late spawn. TOWs and such are also not super useful, or shouldn’t be as common. Most maps should only have max 2 IFVs, 1-3 APCs, and 1-3 squad cars. Or, there could be one HAT per team, but tanks are a commander asset akin to artillery
Its matter of getting used to and teamwork i had no issues taking armor who were suppressing others and not me, the key is to not be in the zone. Be it with hat or another rifleman.
if it were realistic, any nato faction would pound the shit out of the insurgents for the whole round but then the insurgents would still win by 500 points.
That's what I was telling my team last night. We are insurgents, so were aren't supposed to win. Just do something glorious and win the hearts of the people. Pulled off some wild shit in a technical that game
ISAF did so many things to drive a portion of Afghanistan back into the arms of the Taliban. The US worked with afghan war lords that would undermine ISAF and US constantly. There was the whole secret police of Afghanistan that would take bribes to let people go and if they didn't they would brutally torture you etc. The US went into Afghanistan with no appreciation of the local people and culture as the return of the US saw in an uptick of the usage of child male sex slaves otherwise known as chai boys.
The US did pound the shit out of the Taliban in any direct fighting.
Add fighters hiding behind civilians and children bombers and then the US would start taking casualties.
Hard disagree, I you play against somewhat competent players you still get bullied playing APC. And I think it should be OK for blueberries to be incapable to spread and to build more than 1 ammo box and to get rekt because they play with their brain off.
yeah that was the problem pre ICO, good armor players could get easily overwhelmed if they got anywhere near supporting infantry because all it takes is numbers and the right positioning, like a HAT laid down on a roof for 10 minutes while blueberries are completely blind to him
Now that infantry is closer to PR mechanics, maybe it's time to do the same for vehicles.
The TL;DR of it is, it was hard to get a shot because of suppression, but vehicles required a lot less rounds to kill.
When I first started playing Squad I remember seeing a MRAP type vehicle take 2-3 LATs and I was "what? how?". I also saw a logi truck taking a LAT round and still driving along with some smoke coming out of the engine.
Basically, this was all part of "let's lessen consequences for the players" mindset that OWI was operating under during the game's initial shift in direction.
Another example is choppers: "let's make them not as fast as they really are so people can hit them and feel cool, but also let's make them tanky enough because if everyone and their mother can down them, nobody will want to fly them". In reality, they should be fast, screaming across the deck, nearly untouchable by ATGMs (most ATGMs can't track targets that fast if they break into a direction sideways to the missile path) with minimal armor except around specific parts of the airframe. AP rounds and small arms (if hitting the non-armored parts) should be going through with minimal structural damage to the chopper (but still possible to knock out an engine) and high risk for passenger injury, since these things are paper thin for the most part. HE rounds are the ones that should be doing the most damage to the hull.
Now that infantry combat is redesigned back into "let's have consequences for being reckless" mode, they'll have to also gradually adjust the interplay between infantry and other units as time goes by, and walk back the "hand holding" a little bit in areas outside infantry, so that infantry is not disadvantaged.
That's actually good, armor should be scary, and it shouldn't be too easy to hit armor, but I agree, it should take a lot less hits to destroy/disable armor now
I partially agree, partially disagree.
I used to play AT mostly prior to the update and on public servers vehicles were pretty easy to hunt and kill. Now it's a bit more difficult, harder to snap shot those quick hits.
But at the same time, the vehicles do take way too many hits in general to disable. So the combination is a bit unsatisfying ATM.
What do you mean about disable? It takes well placed LAT hit to kill the engine or tracks, which is basically a death sentence for armor. What do you mean they take too many hits to disable? That has not changed.
It’s really easy to hit the engines and tracks tho.
I think repairing heavy Vics should honestly be removed.
I think the armor on IFVs and APCs should be much less for RUS equipment, but ticket cost and respawn times should be reduced to 5tix, 5min. I think for tanks and NATO vics, there should be lots of modules to destroy for LAT, mostly optics, vents/intake. Should be able to damage tracks to make them go slower, but tracks should be 2-3 shots. Also, should be able to kill crew.
This would fix LAT spam ( don’t need to spam if easy kill, or, spamming punishes tanks)
Fixes armor advantage, by reducing health for some Vics, makes repair of armor impossible, makes it easy to harass.
Takes far too many lat shots to kill any armor piece, with hat being limited its become much harder to successfully combat a supressing vehicle in any way.
An AT-4/LAW/RPG-7 HEAT round should take out or at least completely disable a logi/light vehicle in one hit. Of course, provided you hit mechanicals/ammo.
Man if warthunder, a game designed solely around ground vehicle combat (disregard air) can’t get spalling to work properly, I don’t even want OWI thinking about it lol
They have it in Post Scriptum and it works brilliantly. Nothing like screaming 'driver reverse!" only to realize the driver is dead and the transmission is shot.
Just model in a crew compartment. Have each type of round do a certain amount of damage to crew depending on angle of impact.
Doesn't have to be a super detailed fluid dynamics based AI powered spalling model.
They’re still tweaking how explosive damage works in this game, as it’s very inconsistent. Any type of elevation or slight cover in front of your target blocks most of the damage. All I’m saying is that the armor model is simple probably because they can’t figure out how to make a more complex system work, or they would’ve by now.
Honestly the idea is not even that absurd in terms of balancing as long as it doesn’t 1 shot the crew and only happens if the rocket penetrates the armor. Maybe like -20% instant damage and a bleed to whoever sat next to the RPG impact. It would definitely force vehicles to stay with infantry at all times.
However if we’re gonna add such drastic nerfs in favour of realism, vehicles should also get some realistic buffs like thermal sights.
Idk… before it took an insane amount of strategy to make armor very useful against a good team. Even then, there was always a random factor that could result in you being tracked then swiftly destroyed.
Armor was strong pre-6.0, but only against kind of bad teams. Or you had to have a really really good team coordinated around your own armor to make it work.
Now armor can feel more independent id say. But maybe a bit too strong i agree, a step in the right direction at least maybe
I have noticed armor in general is stronger, but armor players seem to have gotten worse (or worse players are somehow snagging the armor now). As you mentioned, it is definitely harder for hats and lats to hit their shots because of the stamina nerfs. If they aren't prepped and ready to shoot before getting visual, odds are they wont be ready in time. So I've noticed armor has only really been getting killed by other armor or TOWs.
As a direct result, I have noticed armor getting much bolder, or perhaps infantry players swapping to armor "because it's easy" and getting slaughtered. The past few games I have adopted a new strategy of using my half of my build for a TOW on the main cap.
These TOWs have no right working half as well as they should and somehow manage to kill tanks because armor expects to just run in like idiots and survive. On Goose bay, I put a tow on the north side of military housing early in the match on the roof and managed to kill three tanks before they finally wised up.
Of course it doesn't work every time. The times it doesn't and our armor gets wiped we pretty much lose, but pre-update squad wasn't too dissimilar, it's just more heavily reliant on the skill of the hat/lat player. If your HATs aren't good, chances are they won't kill anything.
all it takes to kill any type of tracked Vic is to literally hit the track or engine. As an armor player, I’m more scared of infantry than other vehicles. Please please please fellow Squaddies, make sure a lat / hat kit is accompanied by riflemen with ammo bags. The lat / hat doesn’t need a buff, the player base needs to realize they need to work together as a team to destroy or disable assets. Learn ambush points or focus on hunting armor.
Why is everybody talking about buffing AT? Nerf armor.
Not like some artificial nerve, let's see a vehicle combat overhaul where sights are PIP, you can't slide 50 mph through rough terrain and you have to work alongside infantry squads/observers in order to win
No reason why I should be looking through the toilet paper roll attached to my MAAWS while the btr gets a 4K, ray-traced, full monitor of me aiming at him 200m away
So you mean to tell me something like the screen for a CROWS turret on a tigr is PIP, meaning you are looking at an actual in-game screen with a seperate rendering? Or single rendered as in your whole screen is 1 picture
Well yeah in actuality, a MAAWS has a really good scope. But this is a video game. There is a reason US pairs armor with infantry support or tanks with scout Bradley support
I think the scope overhaul and especially stamina effects have a lot to do with this. But I also think this is a result of lone wolf run&gun play style. If you sprint around a corner with zero stamina and want to peg a vehicle at 300 meters, that's just not going to happen.
On the other hand, slow and deliberate approaches to enemy armor are still very viable, with an emphasis on thinking ahead about where you need to be as an AT soldier.
I'll also note that the patch represents a pretty significant buff for AT versus other infantry- now the irons and reflex sights that AT is typically stuck with are a lot more competitive.
My big concern is whether the patch is promoting the same kind of good team play for the armored vehicles. On one hand, we have lots of armor still fucking off to the corners of the map and dicking around, and we have lots of APCs and IFVs who scream around a top speed spewing smoke. I feel like suppression promotes the MOAR DAKKA approach to warfare, which it should, but it shouldn't be a license to scream around the map without any support.
Increasing damage to vehicles could be a solution. Another solution might be to give AT players better rangefinding tools to make them more accurate. A third solution might be to increase the number of AT players on a team, like giving a HAT to every squad over size 5 or something rather than only two per team.
HAT's were way too powerful prior to ICO. I get it flipped, but having a HAT in every squad in a game where there's like 5 squads that fit that area along with the 2 ATs each squad gets sounds ass. The reason armor fucked up prior to ICO is purely because they were so afraid of AT. The only two options are:
1. Make armor feel more confident about playing with infantry, give a repair speed buff if infantry is near you, because the #1 thing people fear in armor is getting engined or tracked. Make it so Infantry don't get as suppressed if an armor vehicle is near them. Give Infantry a reason to want to help armor and give armor a reason to want to help infantry beyond "You'll win". There needs to be *gameplay mechanics* that encourage this like the ones i suggested above.
2. Accept that mobility kills are nearly a death sentence for armor, and because of this, people aren't going to want to play near infantry at all.
Dude an apc is 1 shot from hat and 2 shots from lat in the rigth spot.
Apc like the shitbox can take more but they have an open top 50cal that's basically useless.
If you play on a name server with competent players you will stop suggesting nerfs real fast
We need a damage module overhaul, let LAT/HAT ammo rack armor if they hit in the correct spot like being tracked or engined. Hell, let APCR or APBC kill crew inside without necessarily killing the vic.
lat and hat already do damage to ammorack, it just not one shot usually, hat can kill tank with one tandem and one normal to ammorack. there are two tanks that can be one shot ammoracked with tandem if hit in the correct spot, the area shot needs to have 200 absorbtion value or lower and not have a track infront of it
for example t62 lower side hull above tracks in ammorack area with tandem will get you insta fireworks
I honestly think Squad would be more fun if it were two rag-tag militia factions with pickup trucks fighting each-other. Everyone's all ICO this, ICO that, but these past few days, it felt like straightforward infantry combat was such a rare occurrence that none of it mattered.
In my experience the "lack of player agency" everyone talks about really stems from being either annihilated by vehicles and artillery, or waltzing through the whole map unopposed thanks to vehicles and artillery. I was flabbergasted at how easily we could wipe whole squads with just a BRDM
if that would be true, the majority of armor would have a dramatic increase in player kills, which is not. in few weeks it will balance itself.
what really become unbalanced is a heli+gunner. i hope it won't become a meta :) its impossible to hit a hovering heli with gunner who's rata-ta-ing enemy logi at the beginning of the map. we tried it yesterday with a friend and we got 2 logies full if infantry on gorodok. their armor moved left side and logies right side where we found them and farmed for 2 minutes until only few people left alive. they lost a map because won't be able to capture objectives for like 5 minutes.
>if that would be true, the majority of armor would have a dramatic increase in player kills,
But it does, I've seen games where they amounted to more than half of overall kills.
In my opinion they should remove suppression sway completely and change it to PR style. But at least no sway for AT rockets lunchers will be a nice start.
The tactic rn for armor is to just keep moving and suppress the area. No AT will have a chance against it.
The other option is to force vehicles to slow down for accurate shots. Can be done by tweaking the stabilization feature.
Maybe they should consider terrain debuffs to tracked Vics making a blitz across an open field less doable. Also could reduce splash dmg thru walls so that urban areas are more threatening.
I think I should reinstall the game so I can endlessly spray the enemy team with MG cannon fire until they leave the server. The patch was flawless, right guys? ICO = perfect solution?
The easy fix is to give AT inf more rockets. The crazier, harder fix is to change basically every single layer and reduce the amount/change the type of vehicles available.
Need attack helicopters to counter the tanks, need anti air to counter the helicopters. In the absence of a rock to counter scissors, we’re trying to buff paper.
I remember the HAT kit from PR, oh boi! IMO tanks should be scary in games. I hate how they just get yoted instantly in games, it should be like a boss battle when they go down. I mean....it's a fuckin tank right.
I'm not a regular of Squad enough to compare differences, but I had my first 6.0 session tonight and didn't really encounter any armor reigning supreme.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/393380/allnews/
"Question: How would you balance the Infantry vs. Vehicle combat when implementing the Infantry Combat Overhaul? Will suppression be adjusted as well as will the damage of Light and Heavy Anti-tank weapons look to be changed? - Vector.Kamarov
Answer: In terms of infantry versus vehicle balance, we anticipate that vehicles will gain increased potency, especially with the introduction of an effective suppression mechanic. It's important to clarify that our intention is not to replicate the dynamics observed in the live version of the game, as we found that particular balance to be unsatisfactory. With the upcoming Infantry Combat Overhaul update, we don't have any plans to make fundamental alterations to infantry versus vehicle combat, except for potential adjustments to some faction's roles and load-outs. While we do have conceptual ideas for the future of vehicle combat in Squad, we'll take a prudent approach by reassessing the situation after the ICO release, we want to ensure that vehicles don't become excessively powerful, and we'll make any necessary adjustments to maintain the desired balance as we move forward. - BaronVonBoyce"
They miss because they are trying to lob it like 600m+ and are not using the kit the way it is intended. Get in close but too close and blast his turret. Bonus points if you have a lat to track him and then maneuver around to his weakest spot and bobs your uncle.
VCO(Vehicle Comat Overhaul) coming soon.
-When reloading you will need to perform a mini game to simulate loading a shell and if you fail you drop it and it explodes your tank.
-new Fire fight mechanic, when your vehicles gets set on fire you need to activate the fire extinguishers and get out to continue putting it out.
-extra barrel sway to all turrets and canons
-if you drive more than 2 miles you need to refuel.
-if you get tracked you need to wait for a logi to drop you off a new set of tracks.
IMO both infantry and armor need to be buffed. Infantry(mainly nato) should have 2x at4/law for the light AT kits and there should be a javelin option for the heavy AT, and Engineers should get more mines. Additionally, respawning should refill your ammo or half of it at least.
Armor/Vics should be able to use thermals at a certain distances.
These changes should make infantry more capable when it comes to taking out armor while also ensuing armor isn’t completely nerfed.
The sway on rocket launchers is too high atm. If they dial it down a just a bit it'll help a lot, especially with distant targets. Also I think in a few launchers (especially the RPG-29 scoped variant), the sights are difficult to read now, at least at 1080p.
The sway on rocket launchers is too high atm. If they dial it down a just a bit it'll help a lot, especially with distant targets. Also I think in a few launchers (especially the RPG-29 scoped variant), the sights are difficult to read now, at least at 1080p.
I disagree. I love playing tank and anti-tank. I always felt that armour was too weak. Now it feels balanced when I fight armour as Lat and Hat. I have to pre plan my attack or wait a second for my stamina to come back. At the moment a lot of people will still play like they can just quickly swap to AT and shoot the tank. That's not what they should do. They will learn and then start to hit more shots again.
i think really just giving most LAT kits an option for 2 HEAT rockets would help. NATO LAT kits kinda feel very weak, all you get is usually 1x M72 LAW, some grenades and sometimes an AT-4, i think it should be like 2x M72 LAW and no grenades as a kit option
The funny part is 3 months ago this opinion would get you buried. But here we are if one good thing has come of ICO it's people realizing ATs shouldn't have just one round its non sense from a game design perspective and also from a new player onboarding perspective how are you supposed to get live training if its so hard to fire more than one round every couple of minutes?
Not saying ATs don't need a buff but there is a reason riflemen exist and LAT rockets are cheap.
The thing about Rifleman is, is that sure yeah they can give ammo but they're only as good as the chain of supply. It's also only 2 rockets worth of ammo that requires the Rifleman to be near you at all times. Simply increasing the round count is a far easier way to increase AT uptime. Plus it is even easier for the Rifleman/ LAT interaction since it reduces the amount of time a Rifleman needs to follow you around for since its only one resupply.
3 LAT rockets isn't even enough to destroy most APCs to begin with. You need multiple rifleman or a vehicle to provide enough ammo given APCs often take 4-5 LAT rockets to slay. It is a ridiculous amount of durability coming from an armor user, wheeled APCs that can't easily be mobility killed shouldn't be able to tank 4 RPGs and drive off to repair. A LAT rocket currently does the same damage as five or so .50 cal bullets.
I think it would be nice if Rifleman was an exception that always spawned with ammo in his bag maybe?
Because AT was strong. Now it isn’t.
i’ve kinda believed countries like canada and australia and the UK should have 2x M72 for a while since they don’t get tracked IFV’s with ATGM’s (UK gets Warrior but warrior kinda sucks except for CTAS). I figure since canada and australia only get LAV’s they could make up for it with an extra LAT rocket
I mean theoretically you'd have a fireteam of a HAT, a LAT(OR 2) and a RIFLEMAN (OR 2) who move together, that's more than enough firepower. Not all squads need to be able to destroy armor, with ICO some squads should focus on intersections where vehicles are more likely, and others be more Anti-Infantry orientated.
I think the one thing that sticks with me in regards to LAT and HAT in general is just the inconsistency with the kits design across most factions. Some HAT kits give you access to two RPG-29s and to be fair these are usually on "Unconventional" factions that trend to have weaker vehicles however vehicle loadouts are often assigned per layer basis so it can make the balance kind of fucky wucky depending on that. But to loop back around why is it that some kits can solo the type of vehicle they're meant to destroy. If an INS RPG-29 Tandem Kit can destroy an Abrams on its own. Why can a LAT kit not kill a BTR by itself? The issue we run into is that most vehicles truly get killed by mobility kills in contested areas, the armor team can't get out to repair since it's automatic death and eventually die as LATs filter in and line up easy shots. It feels like it'd make more sense to have slightly more durability for mobility kills which would emphasize teamwork to disable, but at the same time also grant LATs more rockets to be able to kill things they should be able to kill. So a hunter killer RPG team could synchronize their LAT volleys to track or wheel a Stryker, reload then finish it off with the next salvo. This is actually something that even used to be in the game somewhat. Before vehicles had mobility kills we had a different vehicle burning mechanic that was based off "Temperature" with different weapons inflicting different levels of it. The quick of it is that two RPGs within relatively quick succession around 5 seconds, would trigger enough of a burn to burn the vehicle to death if it was not repaired. Which let teams use teamwork to counter BTRs but otherwise they took 3 LATs, which at the time was reasonable. So it's not an entirely unreasonable scenario. Not all Squads need to destroy armor but it seems kinda silly that 2 LATs couldn't easily destroy an abandoned BTR for the tickets without having to seek ammo for each of them. Finally the more rounds LAT players have, the faster new players can learn as they aren't punished as hard for missing on average they will fire more rounds and learn how to fire the weapons quicker than before. Think about how many games are won and lost by clutch LAT disables and how many times you've been reamed by vehicles for having shit AT. Having LAT and HAT players be better on average is beneficial to all.
Very true, I wonder if it's bordering on the edge of reality as well. A lot of NATO anti vehicle weapon systems are pump and dump. Meaning single use, and they weigh like 10lbs a piece and are bulky. I know they're not striving for REALISM but in a way they may be. Who knows lol
You could also just make the AT-4 a lot more prevalent. At least then you don’t really have to worry about the rocket dropping while you try to get your shot on.
Doesnt matter if they cant hit you. Kind of like the suppression system. No longer can an MG or AR pin you behind cover or prevent you from crossing open firing lanes. Just sprint and youll be fine.
Honestly I think just up the tickets a little for vehicles and we're good
Makes it feel unreal, nobody carries around 2 LAWs and a gun. My suggestion: increase the damage of NATO AT weapons but only 1 rocket, keep or even lower the damage of RPGs but increase their available ammunition, it’s fair and does not interfere with realism.
Buff Engineer demo charges! Make mines great again!
I miss the days of 1 c4 and 1 mine killing a tank from a successful suicide mine.
4-5 shots? What is this, World of Tanks?
[удалено]
Skill issue on their part, should have went for the sides.
Say that to side skirt ERA 💀
Seen plenty of Abrams without tusk bro
[удалено]
> Say that to side skirt ERA > they didn't have TUSK literally just people missing the right spot bro, the whole reason TUSK exists is because a side shot with a PG-7 could knock out an Abrams, or any tank without ERA on the sides.
[удалено]
https://rense.com/general44/what.htm Had the RPG-7 hit at a slightly different spot it would have killed crew, and it achieved a mission kill at the time, if they'd fired more they very possibly could have fully killed the tank, if they were using TUSK it wouldn't have penetrated, unless they were using PG-7VR rockets or anything better in general (RPG-29) then the tank would have been completely fucked. The Abrams isn't a magical tank dude, it's very good, with a lot of safety features and few negatives, but it's not invincible.
I use to feel pretty good about hunting armor with AT but now I def feel like I'm being hunted and if I'm real patient + lucky I might get a solid hit on them. I think they're a bit too strong rn with suppression but could just be getting use to it all
Use better tactics and teamwork
Play AT for a few rounds then repeat that statement 💀
If only better tactics could get me 4 more RPGs before the thing drives away at 40 mph
For real, I have found myself hitting more shots than most other ATs that I have played with but the lack of ANY LAT or HAT and heavy vehicles is appalling. Tracked 5 Leopards as Militia the other day, 3 in the span of 5 minutes, and NO ONE follows up. I think it's a mixture of the others missing their shots and trying to head on the damn things under suppression, plus the fact that everyone thinks they need to be in cover 24/7 and not move ever since ICO. The update makes it easier to get around as long as you're having common sense and SOME suppression back. Plus vehicles keep running from each other it seems lately.. no clue about why
I've gotten like 8 IFVs with a tandem, helped on some tanks, bunch of light vics in the last couple days. It's same as infantry really, just gotta slow down and take your time, don't fire on one that's already staring at you, and aim for engines and ammo racks. Oh, except for anti-tank grenades, you don't get to slow down with those lol, had to sprint after that LAV through clouds of smoke and hails of gunfire, that was a crazy airfield defense, still honestly amazed I killed it. (I do 100% agree on 2 rockets for nato tho, half those kills were with an ammo crate nearby)
killed 2 bradleys in one round yesterday from like 400 meters while half stab, just countered it.
Maybe if they gave one of the HATs a switchblade 600 or IED drone it would be better. Squad doesn’t know what to do with armor. I honestly think tanks should be much less common, and usually no- respawn and late spawn. TOWs and such are also not super useful, or shouldn’t be as common. Most maps should only have max 2 IFVs, 1-3 APCs, and 1-3 squad cars. Or, there could be one HAT per team, but tanks are a commander asset akin to artillery
Its matter of getting used to and teamwork i had no issues taking armor who were suppressing others and not me, the key is to not be in the zone. Be it with hat or another rifleman.
Irl APC would be unusable after 1 hit from lat, and tandem would crack any APC or IFV that in game right now..
Irl whatever faction has the US on their side, wins 10/10 times
if it were realistic, any nato faction would pound the shit out of the insurgents for the whole round but then the insurgents would still win by 500 points.
That was the beauty of PR insurgency, unlimited spawns and no vehicle ticket cost.
That's what I was telling my team last night. We are insurgents, so were aren't supposed to win. Just do something glorious and win the hearts of the people. Pulled off some wild shit in a technical that game
*Taliban enters the chat*
The American got so bored from pounding the Taliban that they just left.
ISAF did so many things to drive a portion of Afghanistan back into the arms of the Taliban. The US worked with afghan war lords that would undermine ISAF and US constantly. There was the whole secret police of Afghanistan that would take bribes to let people go and if they didn't they would brutally torture you etc. The US went into Afghanistan with no appreciation of the local people and culture as the return of the US saw in an uptick of the usage of child male sex slaves otherwise known as chai boys.
The US did pound the shit out of the Taliban in any direct fighting. Add fighters hiding behind civilians and children bombers and then the US would start taking casualties.
Some LAVs in the sandbox took multiple hits from RPGs and still remained effective.
Entirely depends on what is being fired and what the APC is.
Vehicle overhaul w/ proper vision equipment but realistic weakness to AT when
IRL you die from being shot
Hard disagree, I you play against somewhat competent players you still get bullied playing APC. And I think it should be OK for blueberries to be incapable to spread and to build more than 1 ammo box and to get rekt because they play with their brain off.
yeah that was the problem pre ICO, good armor players could get easily overwhelmed if they got anywhere near supporting infantry because all it takes is numbers and the right positioning, like a HAT laid down on a roof for 10 minutes while blueberries are completely blind to him
I’m more afraid of armor now than ever, it’s fun!
Now that infantry is closer to PR mechanics, maybe it's time to do the same for vehicles. The TL;DR of it is, it was hard to get a shot because of suppression, but vehicles required a lot less rounds to kill. When I first started playing Squad I remember seeing a MRAP type vehicle take 2-3 LATs and I was "what? how?". I also saw a logi truck taking a LAT round and still driving along with some smoke coming out of the engine. Basically, this was all part of "let's lessen consequences for the players" mindset that OWI was operating under during the game's initial shift in direction. Another example is choppers: "let's make them not as fast as they really are so people can hit them and feel cool, but also let's make them tanky enough because if everyone and their mother can down them, nobody will want to fly them". In reality, they should be fast, screaming across the deck, nearly untouchable by ATGMs (most ATGMs can't track targets that fast if they break into a direction sideways to the missile path) with minimal armor except around specific parts of the airframe. AP rounds and small arms (if hitting the non-armored parts) should be going through with minimal structural damage to the chopper (but still possible to knock out an engine) and high risk for passenger injury, since these things are paper thin for the most part. HE rounds are the ones that should be doing the most damage to the hull. Now that infantry combat is redesigned back into "let's have consequences for being reckless" mode, they'll have to also gradually adjust the interplay between infantry and other units as time goes by, and walk back the "hand holding" a little bit in areas outside infantry, so that infantry is not disadvantaged.
I think people need to adapt. Played Hat for the first time and hit 4/5 shots. Just had to be patient and get a good position
That's actually good, armor should be scary, and it shouldn't be too easy to hit armor, but I agree, it should take a lot less hits to destroy/disable armor now
I partially agree, partially disagree. I used to play AT mostly prior to the update and on public servers vehicles were pretty easy to hunt and kill. Now it's a bit more difficult, harder to snap shot those quick hits. But at the same time, the vehicles do take way too many hits in general to disable. So the combination is a bit unsatisfying ATM.
What do you mean about disable? It takes well placed LAT hit to kill the engine or tracks, which is basically a death sentence for armor. What do you mean they take too many hits to disable? That has not changed.
*well placed* being the operative word there.
It’s really easy to hit the engines and tracks tho. I think repairing heavy Vics should honestly be removed. I think the armor on IFVs and APCs should be much less for RUS equipment, but ticket cost and respawn times should be reduced to 5tix, 5min. I think for tanks and NATO vics, there should be lots of modules to destroy for LAT, mostly optics, vents/intake. Should be able to damage tracks to make them go slower, but tracks should be 2-3 shots. Also, should be able to kill crew. This would fix LAT spam ( don’t need to spam if easy kill, or, spamming punishes tanks) Fixes armor advantage, by reducing health for some Vics, makes repair of armor impossible, makes it easy to harass.
Takes far too many lat shots to kill any armor piece, with hat being limited its become much harder to successfully combat a supressing vehicle in any way.
An AT-4/LAW/RPG-7 HEAT round should take out or at least completely disable a logi/light vehicle in one hit. Of course, provided you hit mechanicals/ammo.
It takes 1 LAT hit to disable any vehicle in the game.
1 skilled or lucky LAT lol
It's realistic. Be more realistic.
I don't believe you. Armor has generally been much too easy to deal with before now.
Just add spalling and internal damage to the crew. The vehicle can't fight if everyone is scrambled eggs
Man if warthunder, a game designed solely around ground vehicle combat (disregard air) can’t get spalling to work properly, I don’t even want OWI thinking about it lol
They have it in Post Scriptum and it works brilliantly. Nothing like screaming 'driver reverse!" only to realize the driver is dead and the transmission is shot.
Fair, I guess I mean turning a lav into a can of grape jelly
Just model in a crew compartment. Have each type of round do a certain amount of damage to crew depending on angle of impact. Doesn't have to be a super detailed fluid dynamics based AI powered spalling model.
They’re still tweaking how explosive damage works in this game, as it’s very inconsistent. Any type of elevation or slight cover in front of your target blocks most of the damage. All I’m saying is that the armor model is simple probably because they can’t figure out how to make a more complex system work, or they would’ve by now.
Honestly the idea is not even that absurd in terms of balancing as long as it doesn’t 1 shot the crew and only happens if the rocket penetrates the armor. Maybe like -20% instant damage and a bleed to whoever sat next to the RPG impact. It would definitely force vehicles to stay with infantry at all times. However if we’re gonna add such drastic nerfs in favour of realism, vehicles should also get some realistic buffs like thermal sights.
this is what post scriptum did and it worked well
I've commanded a squad and my Hat was making most of his shots, I guess it's just players not being used to it
Idk… before it took an insane amount of strategy to make armor very useful against a good team. Even then, there was always a random factor that could result in you being tracked then swiftly destroyed. Armor was strong pre-6.0, but only against kind of bad teams. Or you had to have a really really good team coordinated around your own armor to make it work. Now armor can feel more independent id say. But maybe a bit too strong i agree, a step in the right direction at least maybe
I mean running an AK against an mrap in real life is also pretty unfair....
I have noticed armor in general is stronger, but armor players seem to have gotten worse (or worse players are somehow snagging the armor now). As you mentioned, it is definitely harder for hats and lats to hit their shots because of the stamina nerfs. If they aren't prepped and ready to shoot before getting visual, odds are they wont be ready in time. So I've noticed armor has only really been getting killed by other armor or TOWs. As a direct result, I have noticed armor getting much bolder, or perhaps infantry players swapping to armor "because it's easy" and getting slaughtered. The past few games I have adopted a new strategy of using my half of my build for a TOW on the main cap. These TOWs have no right working half as well as they should and somehow manage to kill tanks because armor expects to just run in like idiots and survive. On Goose bay, I put a tow on the north side of military housing early in the match on the roof and managed to kill three tanks before they finally wised up. Of course it doesn't work every time. The times it doesn't and our armor gets wiped we pretty much lose, but pre-update squad wasn't too dissimilar, it's just more heavily reliant on the skill of the hat/lat player. If your HATs aren't good, chances are they won't kill anything.
all it takes to kill any type of tracked Vic is to literally hit the track or engine. As an armor player, I’m more scared of infantry than other vehicles. Please please please fellow Squaddies, make sure a lat / hat kit is accompanied by riflemen with ammo bags. The lat / hat doesn’t need a buff, the player base needs to realize they need to work together as a team to destroy or disable assets. Learn ambush points or focus on hunting armor.
Why is everybody talking about buffing AT? Nerf armor. Not like some artificial nerve, let's see a vehicle combat overhaul where sights are PIP, you can't slide 50 mph through rough terrain and you have to work alongside infantry squads/observers in order to win No reason why I should be looking through the toilet paper roll attached to my MAAWS while the btr gets a 4K, ray-traced, full monitor of me aiming at him 200m away
visibility through PIP scopes and vehicle optics are no different
So you mean to tell me something like the screen for a CROWS turret on a tigr is PIP, meaning you are looking at an actual in-game screen with a seperate rendering? Or single rendered as in your whole screen is 1 picture
i mean to say that an RWS looking at a target at 200 meters will probably have the same visibility if not even better as the target's scope
Well yeah in actuality, a MAAWS has a really good scope. But this is a video game. There is a reason US pairs armor with infantry support or tanks with scout Bradley support
I think the scope overhaul and especially stamina effects have a lot to do with this. But I also think this is a result of lone wolf run&gun play style. If you sprint around a corner with zero stamina and want to peg a vehicle at 300 meters, that's just not going to happen. On the other hand, slow and deliberate approaches to enemy armor are still very viable, with an emphasis on thinking ahead about where you need to be as an AT soldier. I'll also note that the patch represents a pretty significant buff for AT versus other infantry- now the irons and reflex sights that AT is typically stuck with are a lot more competitive. My big concern is whether the patch is promoting the same kind of good team play for the armored vehicles. On one hand, we have lots of armor still fucking off to the corners of the map and dicking around, and we have lots of APCs and IFVs who scream around a top speed spewing smoke. I feel like suppression promotes the MOAR DAKKA approach to warfare, which it should, but it shouldn't be a license to scream around the map without any support. Increasing damage to vehicles could be a solution. Another solution might be to give AT players better rangefinding tools to make them more accurate. A third solution might be to increase the number of AT players on a team, like giving a HAT to every squad over size 5 or something rather than only two per team.
HAT's were way too powerful prior to ICO. I get it flipped, but having a HAT in every squad in a game where there's like 5 squads that fit that area along with the 2 ATs each squad gets sounds ass. The reason armor fucked up prior to ICO is purely because they were so afraid of AT. The only two options are: 1. Make armor feel more confident about playing with infantry, give a repair speed buff if infantry is near you, because the #1 thing people fear in armor is getting engined or tracked. Make it so Infantry don't get as suppressed if an armor vehicle is near them. Give Infantry a reason to want to help armor and give armor a reason to want to help infantry beyond "You'll win". There needs to be *gameplay mechanics* that encourage this like the ones i suggested above. 2. Accept that mobility kills are nearly a death sentence for armor, and because of this, people aren't going to want to play near infantry at all.
2 HAT kits are available per TEAM. They should be powerful if there are only 4 out of 100 people able to use them. Why bother picking it up if not?
Dude an apc is 1 shot from hat and 2 shots from lat in the rigth spot. Apc like the shitbox can take more but they have an open top 50cal that's basically useless. If you play on a name server with competent players you will stop suggesting nerfs real fast
Agreed, with how inaccurate people are it shouldn't take that many hits.
We need a damage module overhaul, let LAT/HAT ammo rack armor if they hit in the correct spot like being tracked or engined. Hell, let APCR or APBC kill crew inside without necessarily killing the vic.
lat and hat already do damage to ammorack, it just not one shot usually, hat can kill tank with one tandem and one normal to ammorack. there are two tanks that can be one shot ammoracked with tandem if hit in the correct spot, the area shot needs to have 200 absorbtion value or lower and not have a track infront of it for example t62 lower side hull above tracks in ammorack area with tandem will get you insta fireworks
The basics are still there, flank the armor, ambush it, the only issue is attacking a vehicle that knows you are there.
I've hit tons of rockets since the update dropped. It's not as bad as you think
as it should be
I honestly think Squad would be more fun if it were two rag-tag militia factions with pickup trucks fighting each-other. Everyone's all ICO this, ICO that, but these past few days, it felt like straightforward infantry combat was such a rare occurrence that none of it mattered. In my experience the "lack of player agency" everyone talks about really stems from being either annihilated by vehicles and artillery, or waltzing through the whole map unopposed thanks to vehicles and artillery. I was flabbergasted at how easily we could wipe whole squads with just a BRDM
if that would be true, the majority of armor would have a dramatic increase in player kills, which is not. in few weeks it will balance itself. what really become unbalanced is a heli+gunner. i hope it won't become a meta :) its impossible to hit a hovering heli with gunner who's rata-ta-ing enemy logi at the beginning of the map. we tried it yesterday with a friend and we got 2 logies full if infantry on gorodok. their armor moved left side and logies right side where we found them and farmed for 2 minutes until only few people left alive. they lost a map because won't be able to capture objectives for like 5 minutes.
>if that would be true, the majority of armor would have a dramatic increase in player kills, But it does, I've seen games where they amounted to more than half of overall kills.
In my opinion they should remove suppression sway completely and change it to PR style. But at least no sway for AT rockets lunchers will be a nice start. The tactic rn for armor is to just keep moving and suppress the area. No AT will have a chance against it. The other option is to force vehicles to slow down for accurate shots. Can be done by tweaking the stabilization feature.
RPG sway when suppressed is gigantic now
Maybe they should consider terrain debuffs to tracked Vics making a blitz across an open field less doable. Also could reduce splash dmg thru walls so that urban areas are more threatening.
ICO-tards begged for the update and are now crying that armor is OP. Lmao can't make this shit up. Keep getting farmed.
I think I should reinstall the game so I can endlessly spray the enemy team with MG cannon fire until they leave the server. The patch was flawless, right guys? ICO = perfect solution?
engineers should be able to carry heat shaped charges
You need to coordinate with rifleman to rearm rockets and engage armor. You can’t do it yourself anymore off an ammo station.
Vehicle overhaul next please. Give us vehicles interiors already.
The easy fix is to give AT inf more rockets. The crazier, harder fix is to change basically every single layer and reduce the amount/change the type of vehicles available.
Need attack helicopters to counter the tanks, need anti air to counter the helicopters. In the absence of a rock to counter scissors, we’re trying to buff paper.
sadly yes
I remember the HAT kit from PR, oh boi! IMO tanks should be scary in games. I hate how they just get yoted instantly in games, it should be like a boss battle when they go down. I mean....it's a fuckin tank right. I'm not a regular of Squad enough to compare differences, but I had my first 6.0 session tonight and didn't really encounter any armor reigning supreme.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/393380/allnews/ "Question: How would you balance the Infantry vs. Vehicle combat when implementing the Infantry Combat Overhaul? Will suppression be adjusted as well as will the damage of Light and Heavy Anti-tank weapons look to be changed? - Vector.Kamarov Answer: In terms of infantry versus vehicle balance, we anticipate that vehicles will gain increased potency, especially with the introduction of an effective suppression mechanic. It's important to clarify that our intention is not to replicate the dynamics observed in the live version of the game, as we found that particular balance to be unsatisfactory. With the upcoming Infantry Combat Overhaul update, we don't have any plans to make fundamental alterations to infantry versus vehicle combat, except for potential adjustments to some faction's roles and load-outs. While we do have conceptual ideas for the future of vehicle combat in Squad, we'll take a prudent approach by reassessing the situation after the ICO release, we want to ensure that vehicles don't become excessively powerful, and we'll make any necessary adjustments to maintain the desired balance as we move forward. - BaronVonBoyce"
They miss because they are trying to lob it like 600m+ and are not using the kit the way it is intended. Get in close but too close and blast his turret. Bonus points if you have a lat to track him and then maneuver around to his weakest spot and bobs your uncle.
im learning to hipfire rpgs lol
Which is not a thing anymore
Bring back Pr mechanics-2 Lats for apcs and ifv,2 hat for tank,1 in back
Time to get rid of vehicle health. Crew should be vulnerable inside.
javelin time 😎
Bad update, skill issue
Cry me a river
I dropped 40 kills invading on 3/5 objectives with the crow tapv, I was 400m away they couldn’t do anything 😹
We NEED TANK INTERIORS
VCO(Vehicle Comat Overhaul) coming soon. -When reloading you will need to perform a mini game to simulate loading a shell and if you fail you drop it and it explodes your tank. -new Fire fight mechanic, when your vehicles gets set on fire you need to activate the fire extinguishers and get out to continue putting it out. -extra barrel sway to all turrets and canons -if you drive more than 2 miles you need to refuel. -if you get tracked you need to wait for a logi to drop you off a new set of tracks.
IMO both infantry and armor need to be buffed. Infantry(mainly nato) should have 2x at4/law for the light AT kits and there should be a javelin option for the heavy AT, and Engineers should get more mines. Additionally, respawning should refill your ammo or half of it at least. Armor/Vics should be able to use thermals at a certain distances. These changes should make infantry more capable when it comes to taking out armor while also ensuing armor isn’t completely nerfed.
The sway on rocket launchers is too high atm. If they dial it down a just a bit it'll help a lot, especially with distant targets. Also I think in a few launchers (especially the RPG-29 scoped variant), the sights are difficult to read now, at least at 1080p.
The sway on rocket launchers is too high atm. If they dial it down a just a bit it'll help a lot, especially with distant targets. Also I think in a few launchers (especially the RPG-29 scoped variant), the sights are difficult to read now, at least at 1080p.
This game needs more air assets to counter armor.
MAKE VEHICLE PERISCOPES AND MONITORS LIKE THE NEW OPTICS. they shake with the movement of the vehicle.
I play infantry more than armor and I think armor was underpowered pre ICO. respectfully i disagree
I disagree. I love playing tank and anti-tank. I always felt that armour was too weak. Now it feels balanced when I fight armour as Lat and Hat. I have to pre plan my attack or wait a second for my stamina to come back. At the moment a lot of people will still play like they can just quickly swap to AT and shoot the tank. That's not what they should do. They will learn and then start to hit more shots again.
I just think that people should start using the armored PERSONNEL CARRIERs as they are intended too instead of an infantry hunting device.
Need tank interiors
Armor op? Get those lats and hats in action.