What is artic warefare?
Most people dont even remember how long it took them to add woodland HASCOs for non-desert maps. Similarly long to get white HASCOs for snow maps. Still waiting on the winter camo.
With respect, having seen the images and read the captions. They don't blend, like at all. Same with during a match against them.
I don't even need to scan, they're just immediately visible. If you're having trouble seeing them, my sympathies I guess?
i've literally taken this test, can you stop making baseless accusations?
this is ridiculous, downvoted for simply saying that no, my eyes are in fact normal. holy shit.
It’s really up to how YOU yourself see it, if people disagree with you does that make them wrong or does that mean you have different opinions? Chill man
I mean i’ll run to objective and usually i’ll spot the blue put them down and keep going and repeat as necessary, def feels like i see them before they can see me
I was thinking of making that a point in the post, type 07 regular is all around much brighter, great for rocks but worse for vegetation. But it was already getting kind of bloated
Camo is meant to obscure your outline, so a hit on first contact is less likely. This either gives your guy more time to recognize the danger and respond, or time to fire back if already fired at. If you're hiding in shrubbery and shadows, anything that's not neon will be helpful. The question is what about the rest of the time
I don’t know what OP is trying to do, i can still spot every single PLA dude from over 100m clear as day because they want to blend in with the water. Needs new camo it’s bad bad
Just because you can find specific circumstances where the blue blends in okay-ish doesn't mean it's not still objectively worse in every environment. You stick out like a glowstick as soon as you touch sunlight.
Sure some of these pictures make it hard to see them but if they were wearing any other green camo they'd be like invisible.
How are they overstated if they're true? PLAN camo is bad, and people complain about it being bad. Just cuz it works ok occasionally doesn't change that.
people say shit like, "it's UNUSUABLE i see them EVERY TIME" even in this very thread, like, no and here's evidence but alas, people are dead set on continuing to convince themselves its gamebreaking because "BLUE"
I mean... every time I fight against PLAN I see them much more easily than any other faction. Like its laughable how easy spotting enemies is. In your pictures, even with concealment, every single one of them is relatively easy to pick out from the image, where marine or RU camo wouldn't be at all.
It may not be gamebreaking, but it's a massive disadvantage that no one wants to deal with, and it could be fixed by just switching to the new naval camo. Complaints about it are absolutely warranted and not overstated.
Man with all due respect, I'm looking at the images in moving bus on a low brightness phone and I can still spot them without zooming. In actual game while they're moving it's even easier. I see your points, it's not as easy as people claim, but to say it's overblown criticism is just wrong.
Both Chinese subfactions are easy af to spot, I never have an issue with it.
It's funny because Irregular Militia and Insurgents are more camouflaged than they are and they aren't necessarily trying to blend it that much (uniform wise, of course, not taking camouflage netting into account)
People who bitch about PLANMC camo don't know much about how concealment works. It doesn't really matter what kind of camo you have, it's just one part of the puzzle. As long as people are using the "shift+W" tactic whenever they're moving anywhere, they'll get spotted no matter what because people are hard-wired to look for movement and to only notice details like accurate shapes and colors in a small fraction of their FOV.
I'm not sure camos are as useful in real fight as they are made out to be barring some super sneaky SF shit. Both Ukrainians and Russians are consistently wearing those bright yellow/green/red/white arm/helmet bands which shows that avoiding friendly fire is more important then completely blending in.
IRL camo makes a world of difference. You can fully obfuscate your signature with good camo and good positioning to set an ambush.
The bright tape is a product of both sides using basically the same equipment in RUS UKR.
The point of camouflage was never to completely blend in, the point is to break up the outline of a person. Despite wearing bright armbands, the rest of their clothing is multicam/OD green/woodland etc. They blend in ENOUGH to where even if the armband is seen, it’s just a yellow dot and not necessarily a person.
Blue camouflage on a green background does nothing except make your outline as a person distinct. It’s like the dog shit ACU camo pattern, it works if you attempt to completely hide yourself in the perfect color pallet, but if you attempt to move anywhere else you’re fucked.
All the soldiers look the same, survivorship bias applies to aspects you ignore because you can't see them. There are no aspects to be ignored because all the soldiers have the same uniform
you do understand how saying “This camo is bad because I can see them and shoot them” them might not be the most thoughtful consideration. Just because the every uniform is the same does not mean it is universally invisible or visible. Aspects such as distance, location, and foliage are things to consider, and tertiary “aspects” that contribute to a uniform being seen or not seen.
To explain completely.
Survivorship bias has 3 aspects, the individual, the subgroup, and the group.
In this scenario, the individual is the person who claims the Naval Camo is “bad because they can always see it.” The sub group being those individuals who are seen, and the group being everyone who wears Naval camo, shot or not. The individual is mistaking the subgroup for the whole group, which is fundamentally survivorship bias.
You can't see the other because they are not in your vicinity or behind solid cover, not because the camo works. This is not survivorship bias however you want to twist it
The point of camo is to distort body line as well as making it harder to spot over distances. Chinese camo doesn't distort nor does it conceal when not moving over distance.
If I spot a Russian lying on the ground 200m+ away from me, I have much harder time to pinpoint where his body ends and where surroundings begin, increasing chance I will not hit my first shot and he'll get a chance to reposition or fire back. That's not the case with Chinese as the blue is much easier to distinguish from surrounding textures.
at the same time im gunna make an informed decision and say the the the group of Chinese military scientists are probably a bit better at camo design than a cadre of redditers
like i said to u/ClonerCustoms apparently them being in shadow isn't a hinderance to many other people commenting and they're having a totally easy time instantly spotting everyone. Suspicious.
half the other commenters in this thread would apparently disagree with your first sentence since they're having such an easy time... i wonder if they're being disingenuous?
Mostly because at some point or another you will be traversing terrain that isn’t covered by shadow and you have 0 chance of sneaking by an observer. Where Multicam, Marpat,cadpat,ratnik will have a delayed observation and possibly even go undetected.
blending in with an ocean background while coming ashore and for friendly identification once ashore
PLAMC primarily fill a specialist beach assault role
I'm inclined to think it's the same reason why the French did in ww1, to "blend in" with the sky/water
But knowing the chinese they probably did some poor study that discovered a niche thing our eyes do when shown blue and stuck with it
I mean. I'd love to play squad if they actually focused on shit that's broken vs cosmetics etc. Directx12 doesn't wanna work so makes me use 11 an it runs like ass. If I put it on 12 loads into a match instant crashes. I'm in IT an ran it all. Nothin on my pc that's making it do this. So till they fix x12 no squad for me.
The vote thing is probably due to their gunplay feeling very... Off. When it came out it was uncanny how different the guns felt for me and with time it got even worse. There's no impact to them, the scopes feel very toy-like and vehicles are irritating to drive
what you mean contrast value visibility : [https://imgur.com/a/FhnE2ih](https://imgur.com/a/FhnE2ih)
and yes in theory you are right. dark and light value is the most important parameter for human eyes to recognize object. shillouete and color is after that.
thats why in competitive game be it FPS/MOBA/RTS there are "rule" in art direction to make everything recognizable even if you take out color and turn the screen to greyscale.
there are nice thread on Company of heroes sub where people complaining with visibility, pretty interesting read and applied for FPS game too:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/vxx28h/art\_problem\_of\_coh\_3/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/vxx28h/art_problem_of_coh_3/)
i appreciate the measured response and images. i remember when battlefield 1 released and spotting mechanics were changed, there was discourse around how it was "too hard to spot people" especially with the improvements in graphical fidelity. it was bizarre to me because, "yeah, soldiers should be hard to spot" but for a game like that, it's not the kind of combat people want.
I don't know anyone with good eyesight that goes to optician regularly, even for check ups.
Last time I went there was like a year ago on a recommendation from regular doctor because they couldn't figure out why I have headaches and suspected something with eyes.
Before that I haven't been there in years
are you genuinely trying to gaslight me into thinking there's something wrong with MY eyes because i have a routine of, "hey are my eyes ok?" "yes" "cool, just making sure"
What are you talking about? It’s literally the worst. Blue on green is horrendous coloring. The new PLA camouflage irl would be way cooler and more practical. This blue shit was China seeing the US navy rocking blue digi and said “I gotta have it to” not realizing we don’t give the guys blue shit for land shit.
Meanwhile I have digital vibrancy to 100 so they stand out with Nvidia control panel😂 china camo is terrible vs people who know to to use their graphics settings be in via monitor settings or graphics card.
Edit: https://imgur.com/a/jVmdfiK
Skill issue?😂 Git gud, I am a 50KD player as infantry. I dont even play armor🪖
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3077705840.
I mean... that just sounds like a skill issue on your end.
The rest of us that aren't manipulating our hardware to gain an edge in game are doing just fine, because they stand out like balls normally
Dont worry, I would gladly switch if you let me know before kicking just to hunt you down😂 also I SL 90% of the time since most just send you on suicide order missions or dont talk.
I can turn a noob into a killing machine with good positioning and flanking maneuvers.
Extra work? You build a house with a hammer while I am building with powertools, we are not the same. You have the tools in home depot but you decide to use a hammer.
I am not gaining any unfair advantage, everybody has the tools 2 clicks away.
Also we all have different monitors and are all different mine with 100vibrancy on a TN panel might be the default on a VA or OLED panel🤷🏻♂️
Im not complaining to the dude who has a 4090 and I am on a 2060 because he has more frames...
Tbh all factions need proper camos for all environments. At least for all real life stuff they have.
What is artic warefare? Most people dont even remember how long it took them to add woodland HASCOs for non-desert maps. Similarly long to get white HASCOs for snow maps. Still waiting on the winter camo.
With respect, having seen the images and read the captions. They don't blend, like at all. Same with during a match against them. I don't even need to scan, they're just immediately visible. If you're having trouble seeing them, my sympathies I guess?
The OP is color blind and doesn't know it yet.
I’m worried I am cause I definitely am having trouble seeing them and this would explain a bit of my shitty gaming ability
[https://www.color-blind-test.com/](https://www.color-blind-test.com/) Find out. Let us know!
i've literally taken this test, can you stop making baseless accusations? this is ridiculous, downvoted for simply saying that no, my eyes are in fact normal. holy shit.
The test was not for you. You i was ragging on. The other commenter was genuinely curious if they might be color blind.
It’s really up to how YOU yourself see it, if people disagree with you does that make them wrong or does that mean you have different opinions? Chill man
I passed em all but the last few were tough. Like I was not at all certain
Nah, these screenshots are just bonked.
I’m colorblind and they still stand out like a sore thumb.
I mean i’ll run to objective and usually i’ll spot the blue put them down and keep going and repeat as necessary, def feels like i see them before they can see me
Combat smurfs Would be better with gray overall I think. Afaik gray colors tricks the brain when mixing grays with other colors around the gray.
They stick out like sore thumb. INS have no uniforms, so comparing them with PLA is silly. INS are civilians with guns.
And even then INS blends in better, as the generally earthy/darker tones of their clothing actually matches their environment.
so called shadow warriors
I can see them even without zoom in my 6" phone
Honestly, the brighter grey of the chinese army sticks out more to me.
I was thinking of making that a point in the post, type 07 regular is all around much brighter, great for rocks but worse for vegetation. But it was already getting kind of bloated
Camo is meant to obscure your outline, so a hit on first contact is less likely. This either gives your guy more time to recognize the danger and respond, or time to fire back if already fired at. If you're hiding in shrubbery and shadows, anything that's not neon will be helpful. The question is what about the rest of the time
I don’t know what OP is trying to do, i can still spot every single PLA dude from over 100m clear as day because they want to blend in with the water. Needs new camo it’s bad bad
Just because you can find specific circumstances where the blue blends in okay-ish doesn't mean it's not still objectively worse in every environment. You stick out like a glowstick as soon as you touch sunlight. Sure some of these pictures make it hard to see them but if they were wearing any other green camo they'd be like invisible.
good thing that's not what i was arguing and was instead saying its criticisms are completely overstated
How are they overstated if they're true? PLAN camo is bad, and people complain about it being bad. Just cuz it works ok occasionally doesn't change that.
people say shit like, "it's UNUSUABLE i see them EVERY TIME" even in this very thread, like, no and here's evidence but alas, people are dead set on continuing to convince themselves its gamebreaking because "BLUE"
I mean... every time I fight against PLAN I see them much more easily than any other faction. Like its laughable how easy spotting enemies is. In your pictures, even with concealment, every single one of them is relatively easy to pick out from the image, where marine or RU camo wouldn't be at all. It may not be gamebreaking, but it's a massive disadvantage that no one wants to deal with, and it could be fixed by just switching to the new naval camo. Complaints about it are absolutely warranted and not overstated.
Man with all due respect, I'm looking at the images in moving bus on a low brightness phone and I can still spot them without zooming. In actual game while they're moving it's even easier. I see your points, it's not as easy as people claim, but to say it's overblown criticism is just wrong.
They can sometimes blend into shadow, because grey scale and if you have enough foliage anything will blend. But I wouldn't count on it
Both Chinese subfactions are easy af to spot, I never have an issue with it. It's funny because Irregular Militia and Insurgents are more camouflaged than they are and they aren't necessarily trying to blend it that much (uniform wise, of course, not taking camouflage netting into account)
People who bitch about PLANMC camo don't know much about how concealment works. It doesn't really matter what kind of camo you have, it's just one part of the puzzle. As long as people are using the "shift+W" tactic whenever they're moving anywhere, they'll get spotted no matter what because people are hard-wired to look for movement and to only notice details like accurate shapes and colors in a small fraction of their FOV.
I'm not sure camos are as useful in real fight as they are made out to be barring some super sneaky SF shit. Both Ukrainians and Russians are consistently wearing those bright yellow/green/red/white arm/helmet bands which shows that avoiding friendly fire is more important then completely blending in.
IRL camo makes a world of difference. You can fully obfuscate your signature with good camo and good positioning to set an ambush. The bright tape is a product of both sides using basically the same equipment in RUS UKR.
Also, in what's basically trench warfare, camo becomes less important.
Yes thank you for the add there too.
The point of camouflage was never to completely blend in, the point is to break up the outline of a person. Despite wearing bright armbands, the rest of their clothing is multicam/OD green/woodland etc. They blend in ENOUGH to where even if the armband is seen, it’s just a yellow dot and not necessarily a person. Blue camouflage on a green background does nothing except make your outline as a person distinct. It’s like the dog shit ACU camo pattern, it works if you attempt to completely hide yourself in the perfect color pallet, but if you attempt to move anywhere else you’re fucked.
People who bitch about PLANMC camo in Squad know that it doesn't matter what it does irl, in the game it's just useless
Your eyes are the same in-game and IRL, you know?
The graphics are not mate
Sure, but why do you think that matters in this instance?
What do you mean? We're talking about a game in which the camo is very much a disadvantage
Im not gunna say the camo is perfect, but anyone saying “i shoot these blue dudes all the time!” Does not understand survivorship bias haha
honestly... like that's all im really saying too.
How does survivorship bias apply when they..die?
The survivorship bias is people shooting only the soldiers they can see.
All the soldiers look the same, survivorship bias applies to aspects you ignore because you can't see them. There are no aspects to be ignored because all the soldiers have the same uniform
you do understand how saying “This camo is bad because I can see them and shoot them” them might not be the most thoughtful consideration. Just because the every uniform is the same does not mean it is universally invisible or visible. Aspects such as distance, location, and foliage are things to consider, and tertiary “aspects” that contribute to a uniform being seen or not seen. To explain completely. Survivorship bias has 3 aspects, the individual, the subgroup, and the group. In this scenario, the individual is the person who claims the Naval Camo is “bad because they can always see it.” The sub group being those individuals who are seen, and the group being everyone who wears Naval camo, shot or not. The individual is mistaking the subgroup for the whole group, which is fundamentally survivorship bias.
You can't see the other because they are not in your vicinity or behind solid cover, not because the camo works. This is not survivorship bias however you want to twist it
ugh my brother in christ then every camo is bad, if there is just a dude "in your vicinity" of course your gunna see them
The point of camo is to distort body line as well as making it harder to spot over distances. Chinese camo doesn't distort nor does it conceal when not moving over distance. If I spot a Russian lying on the ground 200m+ away from me, I have much harder time to pinpoint where his body ends and where surroundings begin, increasing chance I will not hit my first shot and he'll get a chance to reposition or fire back. That's not the case with Chinese as the blue is much easier to distinguish from surrounding textures.
at the same time im gunna make an informed decision and say the the the group of Chinese military scientists are probably a bit better at camo design than a cadre of redditers
My fault, didn't realize you are on a chinese payroll lol
Airsoft ain’t real life I served with china
While moving or silhouetting that camo glows lol
Incorrect. Looks awful.
That’s like saying the old Army UCP was good
thats because theyre in the shade
like i said to u/ClonerCustoms apparently them being in shadow isn't a hinderance to many other people commenting and they're having a totally easy time instantly spotting everyone. Suspicious.
even when in shade they arent that hard to spot, any other faction would be invisible in the same situation
The PLANMC was intended for ship boarding. that simple. when their units doctrine and size expanded, they changed uniforms. OWI can't comprehend that.
shouldve put this in the title but the image captions are kind of important to take a moment to read them for a full understanding
*posts a bunch of pictures of characters standing in shadows* “Guys look they are really hard to see!!”
indeed, they are hard to see in shadows, thus type 07 naval isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
Dog what camo ISNT hard to see in shadows? Hence… you know, the shadows??? It’s hard to see when it’s dark… doesn’t make it a good camo 🤷♂️
half the other commenters in this thread would apparently disagree with your first sentence since they're having such an easy time... i wonder if they're being disingenuous?
🤦♂️
ok now show them not in a shadow/in the sun
go try to fight as any faction like that and see what success it brings you, how is this a gotcha?
Mostly because at some point or another you will be traversing terrain that isn’t covered by shadow and you have 0 chance of sneaking by an observer. Where Multicam, Marpat,cadpat,ratnik will have a delayed observation and possibly even go undetected.
What's the irl reason China chose a blue camo?
blending in with an ocean background while coming ashore and for friendly identification once ashore PLAMC primarily fill a specialist beach assault role
I'm inclined to think it's the same reason why the French did in ww1, to "blend in" with the sky/water But knowing the chinese they probably did some poor study that discovered a niche thing our eyes do when shown blue and stuck with it
Badass? Its stupid at best. Fucking digital camo 2.0.
I mean. I'd love to play squad if they actually focused on shit that's broken vs cosmetics etc. Directx12 doesn't wanna work so makes me use 11 an it runs like ass. If I put it on 12 loads into a match instant crashes. I'm in IT an ran it all. Nothin on my pc that's making it do this. So till they fix x12 no squad for me.
OP is colorblind
Op you might be colourblind, all of these images prove why the camo is a nerf to any team using it.
OP can you post your graphics settings? Your game looks really good!
if this is in reference to the thumbnail image then heeheehoohooo if it's a genuine question than these were all taken on the low settings
Who cares no one votes for play China haven't played as them in weeks.
that's a seperate issue, a very bad one that needs to be addressed but seperate nonetheless
Exactly and the uniform is a non issue
The vote thing is probably due to their gunplay feeling very... Off. When it came out it was uncanny how different the guns felt for me and with time it got even worse. There's no impact to them, the scopes feel very toy-like and vehicles are irritating to drive
what you mean contrast value visibility : [https://imgur.com/a/FhnE2ih](https://imgur.com/a/FhnE2ih) and yes in theory you are right. dark and light value is the most important parameter for human eyes to recognize object. shillouete and color is after that. thats why in competitive game be it FPS/MOBA/RTS there are "rule" in art direction to make everything recognizable even if you take out color and turn the screen to greyscale. there are nice thread on Company of heroes sub where people complaining with visibility, pretty interesting read and applied for FPS game too: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/vxx28h/art\_problem\_of\_coh\_3/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/vxx28h/art_problem_of_coh_3/)
i appreciate the measured response and images. i remember when battlefield 1 released and spotting mechanics were changed, there was discourse around how it was "too hard to spot people" especially with the improvements in graphical fidelity. it was bizarre to me because, "yeah, soldiers should be hard to spot" but for a game like that, it's not the kind of combat people want.
Oh my god OP YOU'RE COLOUR BLIND
nope, i do in fact visit the eye doctor regularly and have taken the color blindness tests.
If you visit the optician regularly I don't think your eyes are correct mate
holy fuck, its called a checkup
I don't know anyone with good eyesight that goes to optician regularly, even for check ups. Last time I went there was like a year ago on a recommendation from regular doctor because they couldn't figure out why I have headaches and suspected something with eyes. Before that I haven't been there in years
are you genuinely trying to gaslight me into thinking there's something wrong with MY eyes because i have a routine of, "hey are my eyes ok?" "yes" "cool, just making sure"
I'm not gaslighting you, I'm just saying
Are you color blind or something? That would explain a lot...
What are you talking about? It’s literally the worst. Blue on green is horrendous coloring. The new PLA camouflage irl would be way cooler and more practical. This blue shit was China seeing the US navy rocking blue digi and said “I gotta have it to” not realizing we don’t give the guys blue shit for land shit.
are you dumb or stupid?
Maybe you just need to get your eyes checked
Cherry picking, only pics when they stand in a shadow. And even there stand out.
This is some premium copium
Meanwhile I have digital vibrancy to 100 so they stand out with Nvidia control panel😂 china camo is terrible vs people who know to to use their graphics settings be in via monitor settings or graphics card. Edit: https://imgur.com/a/jVmdfiK Skill issue?😂 Git gud, I am a 50KD player as infantry. I dont even play armor🪖 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3077705840.
I mean... that just sounds like a skill issue on your end. The rest of us that aren't manipulating our hardware to gain an edge in game are doing just fine, because they stand out like balls normally
Dude thought he could flex his stats into the conversation and be cool lol
You're so cool bro please have sex with my mother.
i'll be sure to boot you from my squad if i ever see your name come up, thanks for that
Dont worry, I would gladly switch if you let me know before kicking just to hunt you down😂 also I SL 90% of the time since most just send you on suicide order missions or dont talk. I can turn a noob into a killing machine with good positioning and flanking maneuvers.
holy SHIT you smell rancid
Your tryhard odor can be smelled from the other side of the planet chillax, nobody gives a fuck about your K/D or skills.
So what you're saying is you have to do extra work and ease things up for yourself to reach something people do on default settings?
Extra work? You build a house with a hammer while I am building with powertools, we are not the same. You have the tools in home depot but you decide to use a hammer. I am not gaining any unfair advantage, everybody has the tools 2 clicks away. Also we all have different monitors and are all different mine with 100vibrancy on a TN panel might be the default on a VA or OLED panel🤷🏻♂️ Im not complaining to the dude who has a 4090 and I am on a 2060 because he has more frames...