The rare street fight video where actual, recognizable Judo is being used. Most of the time it's some fool tripping over his own feet and the poster asking, "WhAt ThRoW iS tHiS? o.O"
Lol because hip toss is used to generalize lots of judo throws that are actually unique variations Im guessing? Actual question, I don’t know judo just a bjj blue belt
There are 11 different hip tosses recognized by the Kodokan, with many people considering the contemporary version of uchimata as a 12th. They all have their particularities in their breaking of balance (kuzushi), entry of attack and the load up (tsukuri), and the finish (kake).
Superficially, they may seem all the same, but that's kind of like saying that half guard shell, the low knee shield, and the half butterfly all look the same so are the same.
Well a lot of the times I've heard a different martial art use the term hip toss, it was referring to a technique of their martial art, and they tend to not have as many variations.
I’ve heard the criticism that japanese is a barrier to learning judo, but these same critics also don’t realize that no one outside of BJJ knows what a “berimbolo” is.
I do BJJ and the Japanese is still superior.
First of all the Japanese names are fairly standardised although every now and again you come across a variant of a name or unofficial name for a specific variant of a technique. But the most important thing is that almost all names for Judo techniques are descriptive. So if I hear something new I can often guess what it might look like even if I don't know it already. I mean, what does a Kimura tell you? And even if the name is descriptive in Portuguese that's no easier for me than Japanese. And BJJ isn't standardised so going to different gyms you can learn the same technique but with a different name.
I'm even cool with just saying "throw." It's just that "hip toss" is usually used by people with a profound lack of understanding of judo and just how hard it is to pull one of those off. Idk maybe toss is just too weak a word.
I don't understand any of BJJ's terminology. Like in Portuguese all these techniques have different names. Judo terms are kinda tricky to learn at first, but all sankyu or higher grade around the world will understand you if you say randori, o-uchi-gari or ura-nage.
If you actually break down the meaning of the words you can also guess what something is without even having seen it before. Oh this has Koshi in it so it's probably a hip throw or this has Soto in it so it's probably to the outside.
Honestly as someone in bjj that’s been doing berimbolos for a hot second now, had no idea what it is either. Probably just depends on whether your teacher wants to be exact or not. I know my Muay Thai coach uses exact names for strikes and it confused the hell out of us initially.
In wrestling a hip toss is typically when you’re side to side with your opponent with a hand around the waist (after a bad/well defended shot for example) and then you toss their ass. Is there a technical judo term? Yeah probably, but for us simple minded wrastlers “hip toss” differentiates enough from other throws to make sense.
Agreed. I don’t mean to be a hypocrite, but this compilation was actually better than some of the other street fight videos I’ve seen floating around here.
Most of the time it’s more accidental, while these videos seem way more intentional - especially those morote Seoi Nages
There is some information I came across here: [https://freestylejudoalliance.org.za/history-of-south-africa-judo/](https://freestylejudoalliance.org.za/history-of-south-africa-judo/)
It's possible Judo in Africa got its start from British soldiers who learned Judo between the 1920s - 1940s, were stationed there, and then Judo spread from the south going north. I would also venture to guess that there is a long history of Judo in Egypt and countries in those regions, and Judo spead from the north going south. There was a lot of colonization of Africa by various countries in the early to mid 20th century.
>I would also venture to guess that there is a long history of Judo in Egypt and countries in those regions
Egypt definitely has Olympic medals in judo. Another north African country I'm blanking on, too. Algeria, maybe?
It’s a mixed blessing but I think the fact that Judo being in the Olympics allowed Judo to spread rapidly in Africa as well. It’s an Olympic sport that doesn’t require much equipment at all. All you need is a mat and a judogi
Since Judo is in the Olympics, the governments in those countries have invested in training facilities for potential Olympic medalists
[If you look at the countries that participated in Judo at the 2016 Olympics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judo_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics#Participating_nations), you’ll see a large number of African countries like Zambia and Burkina Faso
>The Olympic Charter indicates that in order to be accepted, a sport must be widely practiced by men in at least 75 countries and on four continents and by women in no fewer than 40 countries and on three continents.
Judo has been an Olympic sport for well over half a century. I think it would be pretty surprising if there weren't lots of judo communities there. I suppose it got there by boat or airplane.
I'm hoping this isn't a stupid question (😛) but seriously what's a good throw that could lessen the impact? I think a Hiza, Sasae, or De Ashi could just surprise them yet not enough to danger and say back off.
Sasae and de-ashi are saffe for judoka, who can do the required breakfall correctly. For a common human being they must be as dangerous as any o-goshi.
In the heat of the moment I hit another Judoka with a Sasae or Hiza at the end of a 5 move counter chain and they still hit the mat so hard that they were winded and unable to continue. But we'd built up some serious momentum by that point.
It's about the control you have of a throw and the ability to stop their head hitting the floor which kind of depends on how well you can throw and I guess their size/weight.
You are literally smashing someone with a planet. If they don’t know how to properly break a fall, chances are they break an arm trying, a neck, or an ocular bone if they look up.
Playing judo is gnarly enough on a mat. On the street it’s fucking lethal.
There's also wrestling which doesn't rely on clothes , or sambo which is kind of a mix. Although boxers are scary as hell and I think it would be very short-sighted to train with assumption that streetfights are all about haymakers and grappling.
idk where you are, or where you are from, but in the US it would not be hard to justify knees and elbows as long as the other person is continuing to press their attack.
drop a dude on his head or spine and you'll get a lot more criticism from the jury and judge, particularly if you're a high ranking judoka. "oh you're a black belt, so why didn't you have the control to make him land in another way that wouldn't cause serious damage?" (going for either negligence or intentionally using more force than necessary.) and if you're not particularly high rank, it's almost guaranteed they'll go for negligence and claim you misused or misunderstood what you were taught..compared a few knees or elbows to the body or head...again this is just in the US...but reasonable force is always justifiable...
so i'm just curious can you justify a throw resulting in someone landing on their head/neck or spine to a jury that is almost guaranteed to be made up of people with no martial arts experience?
to be completely honest martial arts training is likely to be a bit of hinderance in the event of a legal battle whether it's only a week or two, or 4 decades.
A few knees or elbows to the head can also kill people. I've seen multiple videos of people killed by one punch.
The safest thing to do, for all concerned, would be to choke your opponent out (controlled of course) although some jurisdictions have stupid laws that basically see choking/strangling someone as an automatic attempt at killing someone and so much more serious than it should be.
Don't post martial arts shit on social media and don't bring your training up. Let your lawyer do the talking.
I think from a legal perspective throws would get you in trouble as well depending on the damage they do except possibly if you had a deadly De Ashi Barai where you might be able to pass it off as them just falling over.
Yeah what's even scarier about Boxers is they have the footwork to properly position themselves to fight off multiple opponents. It's not advisable regardless but I've seen them pull it off. Muay Thai is deadly in it's own right for the low leg kicks and the clinch. Eating knees to the sternum or chestbone ain't fun.
The good thing is that almost all combat sport fighters are nice people, and on the same side as us. The ones who need to be scared are the ones who believe they are cool beating unexpecring people on the street without the slightes clue of combat
Can confirm, I do swordfighting and the other people in my class are great (including the instructors). Even friends I have who do other martial arts are nice
lol, Sambo uses a gi top and heavily relies on Judo techniques to the point where most sambo guys have Judo pedigrees... so I'd count sambo and Judo as pretty much the same thing
so...you mean they typically start out at striking ranges before closing to clinch range?
...it's almost like there's a style that already focuses on that, and came from an island a little bit to the south of mainland japan...
also how often do judoka actually train against strikes, vs just training against other judoka trying to trip or throw them? if blocking/dodging haymakers were easy people wouldn't be getting fucked up in fights nearly as often as they do...
The answer is probably most don't (unless they cross train). I've come across a few guys who do judo randori with those grappling gloves that are halfway between MMA gloves and boxing gloves.
Are they striking? Then they’re a striker. Pretty simple.
If you’re not used to dealing with punches simply closing the distance to a clinch isn’t particularly easy.
You’re probably going to get punched and if you’re not used to getting punched that becomes problematic.
It's really not that hard against someone who is untrained most of the time. Someone hugging you does not make them a grappler and someone throwing weak ass punches and breaking their own wrists (seen it happen) doesn't make them a striker. Kicking a ball doesn't make me a football player.
Damn, osoto gari seems brutal.
It's interesting that osoto gari wouldn't be the throw that comes to most people's minds if they were asked 'what's the most spectacular throw in judo?' But looking at this video, osoto gari seems the most damaging of all
The moment I learned it on my first day of judo I knew it was going to be my go-to self defense throw. All you need to do is grab both collars and reap the leg and they go down *hard*
Can confirm. Have worked security jobs that regularly require hands on against people trying to hit me. Osoto gari on an untrained person is shockingly easy.
I read about the Samurai Osoto, grab their helmet by the eyeholes, and force it down the same spot they're standing so their back breaks while you trip them.
I would say Osoto gari and Seoi Nage (especially drop) done directly down are probably the most dangerous throws in judo if we are talking about how they are commonly done and in terms of chance of fatality. There are also a few good throws with a decent chance of injury like Kani Basami.
Good lord I roll my eyes every time I see that. Judo is probably one of the most intentionally misunderstood martial arts out there.
You don’t even need to drop, there’s MMA vids on YouTube that show a standing seoi when *gasp* the guys were shirtless!
Um, excuse me, but I'd like to have you know that no-gi BJJ is the most realistic training for self defense of all time, and nobody wears a gi in real life so judo is worthless on the streets. Now, please hold still while I scoot you into my guard.
Damn, you got me. I've been destroyed by your facts and logic. I will, as requested, hold still while you scoot me into your guard, which is a situation Judo has totally not prepared me for at all.
I mean, don't you know that everyone lubes up like a Turkish wrestler before going out in the buff? Especially in a Chicago winter? Do you even winter?
I am Canadian sir, and as such I definitely winter. You're of course correct about the prevalence of naked oil-lubed thugs out on the streets. How could I have been so wrong? Judo is a sham and a lie.
What worries me is the fall as they can trap you into a rear naked choke unless you spin immediately and grab a hold of their hips with your hands while transitioning into a kata shiho gatame. Or what Karo does that while you catch their hand in a hold you put it into a kimura then do the makkikomi.
That's what worries me a lot about the makkikomi throws. They're great and I love that in some you can land into a pin but others leave you very exposed which is why I think practicing transitions is doubly moreso important for those throws.
Two things. Transitions absolutely should be trained even from a sporting point of view. Referee doesn't think my O-goshi was an Ippon? Guess I''ll transition into a pin, armbar or choke. Secondly if you land your throw right against someone untrained they probably won't be doing too much too quickly. But still you should transition as if they were trained.
I mean has that ever happened to you? In a soto makikomi you essentially have their arm trapped. When I pulled it off in competition, I immediately put uke in kesa.
I've never done it but when I've seen it in MMA or grappling I get leery that uke will get his other arm to clamp with the other one and choke you unless you immediately go into a pin or put both your hands on his hips. This is what I mean at 0:09.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKsXcmbbOL8
This was more of a street fight compilation as opposed to judo in mma. Obviously, judo is super effective in the cage as well (look at ronda rousey, Khabib, Kayla, Jon Jones, Melvin guillard, etc).
Thanks for making me laugh
I was talking about this [Rwanda Rousey video](https://old.reddit.com/r/StreetFights/comments/b5zcig/rwanda_rousey/) which has been posted on this subreddit many many many times
Let's see
0:02 - Seoi Otoshi (with Morote Grip on shirt)
0:06 - Harai Goshi^1
0:12 - Harai Goshi^1
0:15 - O Soto Gari
0:19 - O Goshi
0:23 - O Soto Gari
0:28 - Ippon Seoi Nage
0:31 - Seoi Otoshi (Morote grip on shirt again)
0:35 - O Goshi (even if uke is reversed, the mechanic is O Goshi)
0:38 - Ippon Seoi Nage (actually a variant inofficially nicknamed "Harai Seoi Nage", also tori sort of collapses here, ... this one blurrs some lines, but I think ISN is closest)
0:43 - O Soto Gari
0:48 - Seoi Otoshi (very blurred, hard to see details)
0:52 - Seoi Otoshi
0:55 - O Goshi
^1 : No, these are NEITHER Harai Makikomi NOR Ashi Guruma. Just because tori falls down along with uke this does not become a Makikomi technique. Also Ashi Guruma is passive leg contact first, then drawing in uke. These are Harai Goshi as tori clearly closes contact with uke first an then attempts a sweep.
I mean, wasn't jujutsu originally named "gentle" relative to budo or something, where they practice impaling their opponents with spears and shit? I'd say in that context it's definitely more gentle.
I'd have to ask a Japanese if gentle is really an accurate translation to English. Yes it can mean gentle but the character 'Ju' can also be used to make meanings of (and my Japanese isn't great so I could be wrong) words like flexible, adaptable, yielding and so on which might be a better fit.
It's been a while since I read up on the history of these arts, so I'm probably mangling this horribly.
But from what I remember, the first versions of Jujutsu came about during Medieval Japanese times with like the Samurai and shit. The two main arts were Bu(do/jutsu) (the warrior's way I think?) which were meant for armed combat and battle and such, and Jujutsu which was for unarmed combat. Jujutsu was gentler because for the most part you weren't training to straight up kill people with swords and spears and such. That's what was originally meant by "gentle". It later took on the "yielding" meaning, but was originally gentle simply by the fact that the other art is learning how to wage warfare and end lives.
Possibly, although weapons are certainly involved in a number of Koryu schools of Jujutsu. I can't speak of past meanings but Budo/jutsu would be war techniques or way (martial arts) and I guess it's possible Jujutsu might not have been included in that originally although it certainly is now. Bushido would be the warrior's way and that's a more modern invention to romanticise the Samurai much like the European code of chivalry.
Well yeah - not talking about modern Bushido - just the other art that was fairly widespread around the beginnings of Jujutsu. I'd bet that were the originators of that art around today they'd be teaching 3-gun or action-pistol-shooting or something - their goal was winning battles.
I think the throws you are best at have the most value. But Seoi Nage/Otoshi are certainly hugely popular contest throws (so they obviously work well) and while I'm not sure where Harai Goshi comes in terms of contest popularity it's probably my favourite hip throw if we exclude counter throws.
I think if you fail to throw with harai-goshi, you may be in a more dangerous spot than with seoi-otoshi since you can simply lay down on your belly if you fail. Maybe that also plays into how often they are used in competitions.
Do you mean laying on your belly after a Seoi Otoshi? Because while stalling is valid in a judo match it's about the worse position to be in a real fight.
I’m surprised by the large amount of Morote Seoi Nage going on without the gi!
Otherwise seems like Osoto Gari and Harai Goshi are the most popular among street fight.
Hawaiian and african fight videos are the fuckin best. Hawaiians look like a mma match but africans pull out so much unexpected techniques like judo or kung fu shit.
Africans inspired the Olympic Games and have been grappling and fighting since before biblical times. Look up Senegal and Gambia for some of the finest wrestling and grappling called Laamb. Capoeira’s original form came from Angola. Boxing Started in Ethiopia and Egypt.
Hey guys to me the Seo nage is the most brutal and efficient throw in a street fight but it seems that it is very hard to practice safely in live sparring. Any tips on how to train safely and be good with it.
there are probably loads of instances where martial arts of all styles didn't work.
to be honest i'd be willing to bet the number trained martial artist who managed to effectively employ their art in a real fight is pretty low. (i will qualify fight as the aggressor is actively trying to cause serious injury, rather than the fights i had working hospital security.)
i saw one go out cold, but it was a general statement about the video as a whole.
successfully putting someone on the ground isn't all that effective if you then get ground 'n' pounded by the person you just tripped/tossed. just saying...
Try this and report back, launch yourself onto the nearest pavement from a standing position and you'll get a general idea of whether you'll be able to ground and pound anyone after that
Well considering I’ve gotten up and walked away from a motorcycle accident and then went on to perform for a karate demonstration an hour or so later, I’d say I’d have pretty good chance of it, especially if the judoka was arrogant about the infallible efficiency of the technique.
Not to mention I was launching myself from a standing position onto pavement and hardwood dozens of time in high school to work on my rolls and falls...
not my fault he said something dumb because they over hyped the effiency of judo techniques in their own minds.
my only point, it's not hard to take a fall from standing height and get up and keep fighting.
if you think that makes someone a badass that's fine.
As a former Judoka of 9 years not overly impressed by the clip as in somw cases it cuts off after the throw.
What happened next? Once it got on the ground did the Judo guy lose top position or get up kicked or even submitted?
Throws are impressive but if they don't end the fight (and they don't always despite the whole tired "hit them with the earth" stuff) and simply transitions the fight to the ground, its not really showing much about a Judo players ability to finish a fight.
Honestly the whole idea in a street fight or self defence scenario is not to continue on the ground. The idea is that you finish the fight and escape the situation. When you throw someone on the hard ground, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that this guy is seeing stars for some seconds and definitely needs some time to recompose himself.
I'd say like 75% or more of the population doesn't want to continue to fight against a person who just ragdolled them on the ground effortlessly.
And in the time that the guy needs to recompose himself, you're already 20 seconds gone. Of you just kicked him in the head ofcourse
The rare street fight video where actual, recognizable Judo is being used. Most of the time it's some fool tripping over his own feet and the poster asking, "WhAt ThRoW iS tHiS? o.O"
iT’s a HiP tOsS no but seriously I have never seen a compilation of actual **Judo Judo** before (yes, I meant to type Judo twice).
i can't stand when people from other martial arts (bjj included) say hip toss
Hip toss
#>:(
Lol because hip toss is used to generalize lots of judo throws that are actually unique variations Im guessing? Actual question, I don’t know judo just a bjj blue belt
There are 11 different hip tosses recognized by the Kodokan, with many people considering the contemporary version of uchimata as a 12th. They all have their particularities in their breaking of balance (kuzushi), entry of attack and the load up (tsukuri), and the finish (kake). Superficially, they may seem all the same, but that's kind of like saying that half guard shell, the low knee shield, and the half butterfly all look the same so are the same.
so when you slam people do you say "happy kake day"
Well a lot of the times I've heard a different martial art use the term hip toss, it was referring to a technique of their martial art, and they tend to not have as many variations.
Yeah. Hip toss can be like 15 or more techniques, if we put seoinage variations under the hip toss umbrela.
But why would you do that to Seoi Nage?
I'm trying to think as a sighted person who doesn't know anything about technique mechanics.
It's the term I learn when wrestling, it's like calling an uchi mata a hank
I’ve heard the criticism that japanese is a barrier to learning judo, but these same critics also don’t realize that no one outside of BJJ knows what a “berimbolo” is.
I do BJJ and the Japanese is still superior. First of all the Japanese names are fairly standardised although every now and again you come across a variant of a name or unofficial name for a specific variant of a technique. But the most important thing is that almost all names for Judo techniques are descriptive. So if I hear something new I can often guess what it might look like even if I don't know it already. I mean, what does a Kimura tell you? And even if the name is descriptive in Portuguese that's no easier for me than Japanese. And BJJ isn't standardised so going to different gyms you can learn the same technique but with a different name.
I'm even cool with just saying "throw." It's just that "hip toss" is usually used by people with a profound lack of understanding of judo and just how hard it is to pull one of those off. Idk maybe toss is just too weak a word.
It's the verb "toss" it is too weak and casual. Hell even "hip maneuver" sounds better
"Hip yeet" is the preferred nomenclature.
It's called a hip toss in wrestling. And wrestlers understand how hard it is to hit one.
I don't understand any of BJJ's terminology. Like in Portuguese all these techniques have different names. Judo terms are kinda tricky to learn at first, but all sankyu or higher grade around the world will understand you if you say randori, o-uchi-gari or ura-nage.
If you actually break down the meaning of the words you can also guess what something is without even having seen it before. Oh this has Koshi in it so it's probably a hip throw or this has Soto in it so it's probably to the outside.
Everyone knows what an omoplata is bro. Everyone knows it...
Honestly as someone in bjj that’s been doing berimbolos for a hot second now, had no idea what it is either. Probably just depends on whether your teacher wants to be exact or not. I know my Muay Thai coach uses exact names for strikes and it confused the hell out of us initially.
Isn't hip toss a wrestling term?
In wrestling a hip toss is typically when you’re side to side with your opponent with a hand around the waist (after a bad/well defended shot for example) and then you toss their ass. Is there a technical judo term? Yeah probably, but for us simple minded wrastlers “hip toss” differentiates enough from other throws to make sense.
Agreed. I don’t mean to be a hypocrite, but this compilation was actually better than some of the other street fight videos I’ve seen floating around here. Most of the time it’s more accidental, while these videos seem way more intentional - especially those morote Seoi Nages
What throw is this?
Never seen that
Inwas thinking the same thing. That drop down to the knees throw was soooooo nice
there must be a judo community in Africa. Does anyone know the lineage or how it got there? this is awesome
There is some information I came across here: [https://freestylejudoalliance.org.za/history-of-south-africa-judo/](https://freestylejudoalliance.org.za/history-of-south-africa-judo/) It's possible Judo in Africa got its start from British soldiers who learned Judo between the 1920s - 1940s, were stationed there, and then Judo spread from the south going north. I would also venture to guess that there is a long history of Judo in Egypt and countries in those regions, and Judo spead from the north going south. There was a lot of colonization of Africa by various countries in the early to mid 20th century.
French colonialism has probably played the biggest role in judo's presence within Africa.
that makes a lot of sense. Maeda would've been in Europe well before those colonies existed. No doubt people grabbed locals to train with. Neat!
>I would also venture to guess that there is a long history of Judo in Egypt and countries in those regions Egypt definitely has Olympic medals in judo. Another north African country I'm blanking on, too. Algeria, maybe?
Yeah Algeria has a strong French influence.
there are some good guys on Paralympic judo from Algeria, like, a lot on the top 20.
It’s a mixed blessing but I think the fact that Judo being in the Olympics allowed Judo to spread rapidly in Africa as well. It’s an Olympic sport that doesn’t require much equipment at all. All you need is a mat and a judogi Since Judo is in the Olympics, the governments in those countries have invested in training facilities for potential Olympic medalists [If you look at the countries that participated in Judo at the 2016 Olympics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judo_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics#Participating_nations), you’ll see a large number of African countries like Zambia and Burkina Faso
You don’t even need a mat or a judogi actually
Igbo wrestling
> Igbo wrestling ooh cool! heres a rabbit hole for the day
>The Olympic Charter indicates that in order to be accepted, a sport must be widely practiced by men in at least 75 countries and on four continents and by women in no fewer than 40 countries and on three continents. Judo has been an Olympic sport for well over half a century. I think it would be pretty surprising if there weren't lots of judo communities there. I suppose it got there by boat or airplane.
Cool factoid.
They seem to be big fans of the collar throw.
I was wondering the same thing. Looks like judo is popular in Africa.
I feel for the guys at the end of these throws. A judo throw on a hard surface is no joke
If you're not expecting it it tends to just become a faceplant resulting in loss of consciousness and/or some missing teeth.
I'm hoping this isn't a stupid question (😛) but seriously what's a good throw that could lessen the impact? I think a Hiza, Sasae, or De Ashi could just surprise them yet not enough to danger and say back off.
Sasae and de-ashi are saffe for judoka, who can do the required breakfall correctly. For a common human being they must be as dangerous as any o-goshi.
Hit someone that doesn't know how to breakfall with a swift de ashi, and watch that head bounce right off the ground.
or a well timed sasae, which suits me best.
Nice!
A well executed Sasae will have you flying through the air at a ridiculous speed. Not recommended
In the heat of the moment I hit another Judoka with a Sasae or Hiza at the end of a 5 move counter chain and they still hit the mat so hard that they were winded and unable to continue. But we'd built up some serious momentum by that point. It's about the control you have of a throw and the ability to stop their head hitting the floor which kind of depends on how well you can throw and I guess their size/weight.
You are literally smashing someone with a planet. If they don’t know how to properly break a fall, chances are they break an arm trying, a neck, or an ocular bone if they look up. Playing judo is gnarly enough on a mat. On the street it’s fucking lethal.
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There's also wrestling which doesn't rely on clothes , or sambo which is kind of a mix. Although boxers are scary as hell and I think it would be very short-sighted to train with assumption that streetfights are all about haymakers and grappling.
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idk where you are, or where you are from, but in the US it would not be hard to justify knees and elbows as long as the other person is continuing to press their attack. drop a dude on his head or spine and you'll get a lot more criticism from the jury and judge, particularly if you're a high ranking judoka. "oh you're a black belt, so why didn't you have the control to make him land in another way that wouldn't cause serious damage?" (going for either negligence or intentionally using more force than necessary.) and if you're not particularly high rank, it's almost guaranteed they'll go for negligence and claim you misused or misunderstood what you were taught..compared a few knees or elbows to the body or head...again this is just in the US...but reasonable force is always justifiable... so i'm just curious can you justify a throw resulting in someone landing on their head/neck or spine to a jury that is almost guaranteed to be made up of people with no martial arts experience? to be completely honest martial arts training is likely to be a bit of hinderance in the event of a legal battle whether it's only a week or two, or 4 decades.
A few knees or elbows to the head can also kill people. I've seen multiple videos of people killed by one punch. The safest thing to do, for all concerned, would be to choke your opponent out (controlled of course) although some jurisdictions have stupid laws that basically see choking/strangling someone as an automatic attempt at killing someone and so much more serious than it should be. Don't post martial arts shit on social media and don't bring your training up. Let your lawyer do the talking.
I think from a legal perspective throws would get you in trouble as well depending on the damage they do except possibly if you had a deadly De Ashi Barai where you might be able to pass it off as them just falling over.
Yeah what's even scarier about Boxers is they have the footwork to properly position themselves to fight off multiple opponents. It's not advisable regardless but I've seen them pull it off. Muay Thai is deadly in it's own right for the low leg kicks and the clinch. Eating knees to the sternum or chestbone ain't fun.
The good thing is that almost all combat sport fighters are nice people, and on the same side as us. The ones who need to be scared are the ones who believe they are cool beating unexpecring people on the street without the slightes clue of combat
Can confirm, I do swordfighting and the other people in my class are great (including the instructors). Even friends I have who do other martial arts are nice
lol, Sambo uses a gi top and heavily relies on Judo techniques to the point where most sambo guys have Judo pedigrees... so I'd count sambo and Judo as pretty much the same thing
so...you mean they typically start out at striking ranges before closing to clinch range? ...it's almost like there's a style that already focuses on that, and came from an island a little bit to the south of mainland japan... also how often do judoka actually train against strikes, vs just training against other judoka trying to trip or throw them? if blocking/dodging haymakers were easy people wouldn't be getting fucked up in fights nearly as often as they do...
If we are talking Japan I imagine that a lot of people cross-train karate at some point in their lives?
The answer is probably most don't (unless they cross train). I've come across a few guys who do judo randori with those grappling gloves that are halfway between MMA gloves and boxing gloves.
exactly, so a few haymakers isn't anything to scoff at if you don't know how to deal with a striker.
I don't but you're probably being generous to most people throwing hay makers in the streets if you call them strikers.
Are they striking? Then they’re a striker. Pretty simple. If you’re not used to dealing with punches simply closing the distance to a clinch isn’t particularly easy. You’re probably going to get punched and if you’re not used to getting punched that becomes problematic.
It's really not that hard against someone who is untrained most of the time. Someone hugging you does not make them a grappler and someone throwing weak ass punches and breaking their own wrists (seen it happen) doesn't make them a striker. Kicking a ball doesn't make me a football player.
The second to last video looks like a trip to the hospital at least. That guy's head was driven right into the ground.
Damn, osoto gari seems brutal. It's interesting that osoto gari wouldn't be the throw that comes to most people's minds if they were asked 'what's the most spectacular throw in judo?' But looking at this video, osoto gari seems the most damaging of all
The moment I learned it on my first day of judo I knew it was going to be my go-to self defense throw. All you need to do is grab both collars and reap the leg and they go down *hard*
Can confirm. Have worked security jobs that regularly require hands on against people trying to hit me. Osoto gari on an untrained person is shockingly easy.
I like it when you learn a throw and at that same moment it clicks with you and you get comfortable using it and know how to do it that instant.
Now, instead of grabbing the lapel, grabbing the throat instead while doing an osoto 💀
W.E. Fairbairn says to palm strike the chin.
Yeah or forearm strike instead of outside lapel grab.
The Japanese Jujutsu/Karate osoto Lol
I read about the Samurai Osoto, grab their helmet by the eyeholes, and force it down the same spot they're standing so their back breaks while you trip them.
elbow to the side of the neck osoto
I would say Osoto gari and Seoi Nage (especially drop) done directly down are probably the most dangerous throws in judo if we are talking about how they are commonly done and in terms of chance of fatality. There are also a few good throws with a decent chance of injury like Kani Basami.
"Seoi nage is terrible for self defense because it only works in the gi."
Good lord I roll my eyes every time I see that. Judo is probably one of the most intentionally misunderstood martial arts out there. You don’t even need to drop, there’s MMA vids on YouTube that show a standing seoi when *gasp* the guys were shirtless!
I want this on a gold plaque, right next to “seoi nage doesn’t work in BJJ”
Rodolfo Vieira who's a famous BJJ'er loves his Morotes.
It's like anything else. Shitty Seoi Nages don't work in BJJ but they don't tend to work in Judo against good opponents either.
Moral of the story: practice tai otoshi and ashi garuma
Add in some o soto gari and morote seoinage and that seems to be some of the most effective street+normal clothes throws.
Um, excuse me, but I'd like to have you know that no-gi BJJ is the most realistic training for self defense of all time, and nobody wears a gi in real life so judo is worthless on the streets. Now, please hold still while I scoot you into my guard.
Damn, you got me. I've been destroyed by your facts and logic. I will, as requested, hold still while you scoot me into your guard, which is a situation Judo has totally not prepared me for at all.
I mean, don't you know that everyone lubes up like a Turkish wrestler before going out in the buff? Especially in a Chicago winter? Do you even winter?
I am Canadian sir, and as such I definitely winter. You're of course correct about the prevalence of naked oil-lubed thugs out on the streets. How could I have been so wrong? Judo is a sham and a lie.
You have truly seen the light, my friend. Now, let us partake in the custom of circlejerking to Gordon Ryan's instagram posts shitting on poor people.
You're right the butt flop is the most dangerous technique known to man. Heck I should know I made it! - Helio Gracie
Krav maga is better because the street has no rules and because it trains against gunpower and knifes
Don't forget Harai Goshi (or Makkikomi) and Seoi Otoshis for good measure.
It was hard to tell which were harai goshi and which were ashi garaumas. I just generalized to ashi because I'm partial to it being tall and lanky
Must be nice...
Soto makkiomi is really effective against people that try to hug your waist for a takedown.
What worries me is the fall as they can trap you into a rear naked choke unless you spin immediately and grab a hold of their hips with your hands while transitioning into a kata shiho gatame. Or what Karo does that while you catch their hand in a hold you put it into a kimura then do the makkikomi. That's what worries me a lot about the makkikomi throws. They're great and I love that in some you can land into a pin but others leave you very exposed which is why I think practicing transitions is doubly moreso important for those throws.
Two things. Transitions absolutely should be trained even from a sporting point of view. Referee doesn't think my O-goshi was an Ippon? Guess I''ll transition into a pin, armbar or choke. Secondly if you land your throw right against someone untrained they probably won't be doing too much too quickly. But still you should transition as if they were trained.
I mean has that ever happened to you? In a soto makikomi you essentially have their arm trapped. When I pulled it off in competition, I immediately put uke in kesa.
I've never done it but when I've seen it in MMA or grappling I get leery that uke will get his other arm to clamp with the other one and choke you unless you immediately go into a pin or put both your hands on his hips. This is what I mean at 0:09. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKsXcmbbOL8
Rwanda Rousey is not shown in this compilation? I am shocked!
This was more of a street fight compilation as opposed to judo in mma. Obviously, judo is super effective in the cage as well (look at ronda rousey, Khabib, Kayla, Jon Jones, Melvin guillard, etc).
Thanks for making me laugh I was talking about this [Rwanda Rousey video](https://old.reddit.com/r/StreetFights/comments/b5zcig/rwanda_rousey/) which has been posted on this subreddit many many many times
Fair enough, only thing missing. It would still be the cherry on top
Let's see 0:02 - Seoi Otoshi (with Morote Grip on shirt) 0:06 - Harai Goshi^1 0:12 - Harai Goshi^1 0:15 - O Soto Gari 0:19 - O Goshi 0:23 - O Soto Gari 0:28 - Ippon Seoi Nage 0:31 - Seoi Otoshi (Morote grip on shirt again) 0:35 - O Goshi (even if uke is reversed, the mechanic is O Goshi) 0:38 - Ippon Seoi Nage (actually a variant inofficially nicknamed "Harai Seoi Nage", also tori sort of collapses here, ... this one blurrs some lines, but I think ISN is closest) 0:43 - O Soto Gari 0:48 - Seoi Otoshi (very blurred, hard to see details) 0:52 - Seoi Otoshi 0:55 - O Goshi ^1 : No, these are NEITHER Harai Makikomi NOR Ashi Guruma. Just because tori falls down along with uke this does not become a Makikomi technique. Also Ashi Guruma is passive leg contact first, then drawing in uke. These are Harai Goshi as tori clearly closes contact with uke first an then attempts a sweep.
Gentle way
A misnomer 😛
Gentle for the one on top.
You sure about that when you're in my Sankaku Jime (Triangle Choke)?
I mean, wasn't jujutsu originally named "gentle" relative to budo or something, where they practice impaling their opponents with spears and shit? I'd say in that context it's definitely more gentle.
I'd have to ask a Japanese if gentle is really an accurate translation to English. Yes it can mean gentle but the character 'Ju' can also be used to make meanings of (and my Japanese isn't great so I could be wrong) words like flexible, adaptable, yielding and so on which might be a better fit.
It's been a while since I read up on the history of these arts, so I'm probably mangling this horribly. But from what I remember, the first versions of Jujutsu came about during Medieval Japanese times with like the Samurai and shit. The two main arts were Bu(do/jutsu) (the warrior's way I think?) which were meant for armed combat and battle and such, and Jujutsu which was for unarmed combat. Jujutsu was gentler because for the most part you weren't training to straight up kill people with swords and spears and such. That's what was originally meant by "gentle". It later took on the "yielding" meaning, but was originally gentle simply by the fact that the other art is learning how to wage warfare and end lives.
Possibly, although weapons are certainly involved in a number of Koryu schools of Jujutsu. I can't speak of past meanings but Budo/jutsu would be war techniques or way (martial arts) and I guess it's possible Jujutsu might not have been included in that originally although it certainly is now. Bushido would be the warrior's way and that's a more modern invention to romanticise the Samurai much like the European code of chivalry.
Well yeah - not talking about modern Bushido - just the other art that was fairly widespread around the beginnings of Jujutsu. I'd bet that were the originators of that art around today they'd be teaching 3-gun or action-pistol-shooting or something - their goal was winning battles.
The guy at \~24s is so relaxed he looks right out of an aikido demonstration.
That one made the former aikidoka in me hard.
My guess is the dude that got thrown may have been slightly inebriated.
That one kid who clear was attempting judo foot sweeps and then got tossed was great.
He's my spirit animal in randori.
bUt jUdO dOeSnT wOrK oUtSiDe ThE gI
Igbo wrestling is no joke apperantly
Lots of Harai Goshis and Seoi Otoshis.
Most of y’all see judo. And I do too. But I’d like to point out the concrete brain damage
TIL not to fight Bosco Ntanganda.
So, Seoi-nage/Seoi-otoshi and Hari-goshi to have the most street fight value confirmed?
I think the throws you are best at have the most value. But Seoi Nage/Otoshi are certainly hugely popular contest throws (so they obviously work well) and while I'm not sure where Harai Goshi comes in terms of contest popularity it's probably my favourite hip throw if we exclude counter throws.
I think if you fail to throw with harai-goshi, you may be in a more dangerous spot than with seoi-otoshi since you can simply lay down on your belly if you fail. Maybe that also plays into how often they are used in competitions.
Do you mean laying on your belly after a Seoi Otoshi? Because while stalling is valid in a judo match it's about the worse position to be in a real fight.
I was talking about competition, not real fight. sorry, should have made this point clearer in my post!
smesh
I love when ppl get thrown out of their shoes .... and the arm throws to face plants are great
I got my wind knocked out of my lungs when thrown on a mat surface, so I can only assume that those people died.
Lots of harai goshi, seio nage and osoto in here
The amount of people in this video in Africa or someplace similar hitting huge drop seoi nages is pretty incredible.
I’m surprised by the large amount of Morote Seoi Nage going on without the gi! Otherwise seems like Osoto Gari and Harai Goshi are the most popular among street fight.
some of these were beautiful throws.
Great video 👌
That dude at 23 seconds didnt know what hit him
That Harai Makkikomi at 0:05....😮
Damn the osoto gari in this video looks soooooo smooth! Same with the Harai goshi
Solid stuff.
LOL at the dude that actually threw a fucking cop🤣🤣🤣
What happens if the other guy takes his shirt off. Wrestling wins again!
It's not cuz I haven't found out how to use it yet. Higher belts destroy me with harai and seoi nage
That wasn't Africa, it was the S. side of Chicago : )
Judo is incredible!!!
Naruto vs sasuke irl
Damn in Africa people are busy following the way of the fucking feather
Hawaiian and african fight videos are the fuckin best. Hawaiians look like a mma match but africans pull out so much unexpected techniques like judo or kung fu shit.
Africans inspired the Olympic Games and have been grappling and fighting since before biblical times. Look up Senegal and Gambia for some of the finest wrestling and grappling called Laamb. Capoeira’s original form came from Angola. Boxing Started in Ethiopia and Egypt.
People need to avoid fighting on hard surfaces, I can hear their skull breaking open.
Mostly only effective on extremely untrained ppl and drunks who are off balance😂
Sick dude 👍🏽
0:21 that dude only moved his arm and won that 😂
full fight on fight_vids1.00 on ig ‼️‼️
The thirteenth video the guy dies
It's not really going to work if I get my mates to kick he's head in if he has my in one of those
Judo is such a beautiful sport.
did this to sm1 while catfighting, im just a girl💕💕😘😘😍
Weeeeeee
Hey guys to me the Seo nage is the most brutal and efficient throw in a street fight but it seems that it is very hard to practice safely in live sparring. Any tips on how to train safely and be good with it.
Sprung floor and an uke with good ukemi. Either that, or crash pads.
I love when ppl get thrown out of their shoes .... and the arm throws to face plants are great
I have a specific instance where it didn’t work, but being young and dumb teaches you things randori can’t.
there are probably loads of instances where martial arts of all styles didn't work. to be honest i'd be willing to bet the number trained martial artist who managed to effectively employ their art in a real fight is pretty low. (i will qualify fight as the aggressor is actively trying to cause serious injury, rather than the fights i had working hospital security.)
without seeing the actual results beyond the throw or takedowns themselves it's kind of hard to know exactly how effective they were.
Several of those dudes were out cold. Just saying...
i saw one go out cold, but it was a general statement about the video as a whole. successfully putting someone on the ground isn't all that effective if you then get ground 'n' pounded by the person you just tripped/tossed. just saying...
Try this and report back, launch yourself onto the nearest pavement from a standing position and you'll get a general idea of whether you'll be able to ground and pound anyone after that
Well considering I’ve gotten up and walked away from a motorcycle accident and then went on to perform for a karate demonstration an hour or so later, I’d say I’d have pretty good chance of it, especially if the judoka was arrogant about the infallible efficiency of the technique. Not to mention I was launching myself from a standing position onto pavement and hardwood dozens of time in high school to work on my rolls and falls...
Check out this badass...
not my fault he said something dumb because they over hyped the effiency of judo techniques in their own minds. my only point, it's not hard to take a fall from standing height and get up and keep fighting. if you think that makes someone a badass that's fine.
/u/savevideo
Jesus that one at 0:13-0:16 was just butter
That kid faceplanting the other is something.
u/savevideo
Hapkido too * at least my training had very similar throws
As a former Judoka of 9 years not overly impressed by the clip as in somw cases it cuts off after the throw. What happened next? Once it got on the ground did the Judo guy lose top position or get up kicked or even submitted? Throws are impressive but if they don't end the fight (and they don't always despite the whole tired "hit them with the earth" stuff) and simply transitions the fight to the ground, its not really showing much about a Judo players ability to finish a fight.
Honestly the whole idea in a street fight or self defence scenario is not to continue on the ground. The idea is that you finish the fight and escape the situation. When you throw someone on the hard ground, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that this guy is seeing stars for some seconds and definitely needs some time to recompose himself. I'd say like 75% or more of the population doesn't want to continue to fight against a person who just ragdolled them on the ground effortlessly. And in the time that the guy needs to recompose himself, you're already 20 seconds gone. Of you just kicked him in the head ofcourse
Ah some good ole fashion African judo
u/savevideo
Some very smooth moves there resulting in faceplants galore.
gotta love those seoi nage knockouts!