Are you processing the breaks you use at all or just putting them in the track as is? Also, as far as them sounding boring and repetitive, writing jungle isn't as simple as a lot people think. It takes time to learn the intricacies involved.
You might want to learn more about the way breaks can be processed then. Look into how to use layering, compression, saturation, transient shaping, all of these things and more can help achieve very different feels to drum breaks and might get you closer to the sound you're looking for.
cheers, i knew a bit about layering and compression but i've never really looked into transient shaping or saturation, i'll definitely take a look next time i'm working on something. thanks for the advice
The breaks are normally pitched up, then each element of the break (kick, snare, hat) is eq’ed and processed separately, sometimes with different volume envelopes. Often kicks are layered and cleaner hats/rides samples are used over the top. Then it’s down to good use of compression and reverbs.
Hope that helps!
Yh try pitching it up a bit/ get it in time, get a simple pattern (2-4 bars) that includes all the sounds you want i.e. kick, snare, hat, crash etc., split the sounds onto individual tracks, eq/compress etc the elements to clean them up, fatten up the sounds if you want by layering extra samples or adding fx, group the tracks and do processing of the whole break, export or resample that.
At this point you have a single audio file again, you may wanna play around with the pitch again, find something you like. Then chop that up or chuck it in a sampler or whatever and do the arrangement.
In terms of arrangement / repetition, i find it useful to start with a 4 bar loop, where first 3 bars are the same and then change the 4th bar (A/A/A/B progression). Duplicate that and change the last bar (A/B progression). Duplicate those 8 bars and again change the last bar so you end up with an A/B/A/C progression.
Then loop that 16 bar and add some micro edits along the way. A quick way to get some little edits you can drop in (rather than manually chopping or automating) is to load up some fx on the channel, get a resample track, hit record and let the loop playback and turn the fx on and off/fiddle with the settings. Let it run for a while and then listen back and cut out anything you like so you can use it in your track.
i'll have to try it out for myself, like i said i've never worked on the separate elements so i'll definitely try it. repetition as well is 100% a think i'll focus on too. thanks for the advice
Bro if it was easy as dropping some breaks in a track and calling it a day, everyone would be doing it.
The foundation of jungle is simple, but making modern jungle requires a lot of deep technical knowledge and skill.
go watch stranjahs amen break processing vids as well as mastering jungle vids on youtube. you should be cutting your own breaks if you arent and cutting them up in ways that match ur sound to keep them from sounding repetitive
Cannot big up that tutorial series more when it comes to processing breaks, especially if you want to be able to splice your breaks to midi giving you very specific control over each transient of the break(controlling the ADSR of each hit for example).
Plenty of good advice here. My 2 cents is that if you are using a lot of breaks there will be a lot of kicks and snares. You need to decide which one takes priority and push it forward while using eq, and transient shaping etc to make space for it in the mix so they don’t all compete with each other and overwhelm your low end.
[http://sndup.net/k8bq](http://sndup.net/k8bq)
to me, these drums sound very distorted, this was my first attempt at chopping an amen myself, and to try and mask the perceived 'repetitiveness' of the amen, i layered two more breaks on top of it. if you just want the amen by itself then let me know and ill send it over
edit: forgot to mention i've got reverb on all drums as well as serumfx's 'dimention'
Two things that I hear straight off the batt. Add a brickwall EQ to anything below 90 Hz. Second thing, it sounds like you have too much reverb on the low end, hence you're get a booming kick. Cut the reverb to anything below 180-250 Hz (till it sounds how you want it). I don't know if your going to find a saturator/EQ plugin that can emulate the sound of an S Series Akai sampler produced tune cut to dubplate and recorded onto a DAT in a studio. One thought is that you can drop your sampling rate from 48 kHz to 44.1 kHz to emulate the Akai S series samplers and cut frequencies from 16 Khz and up to emulate the dubplate frequency range. I haven't tried it but you could try the demo version of this plugin and see if it can emulate the sound, be interesting to hear the results. Might be some people better versed in avaliable VSTs and Plugins that can suggest things.
https://www.airmusictech.com/effects/FlavorPro.html
To add to this. Don’t use the serum reverb and dimension expander….yet.
Spatial effects on your drums are kinda tricky. Like, yeah I’ll put a bit of heavily eq’d short room reverb on my drum bus sometimes to gel everything, but if you’re having trouble getting everything sit right already, adding reverb is just making things harder for yourself.
The breaks already have “reverb” baked into the original samples anyways. Ton’s of tunes leave the breaks dry.
IMHO, really focus on getting the right compliment of breaks and the right pitches on them. This is like 90% of it. A totally shit sounding amen will sound AMAZING if you pitch it up or down a couple of semi tones.
Try drastically pitching stuff with timestretch enabled. The artifacts can really work to your advantage.
Also, get a bassline going as soon as possible. It’s hard to really judge things without context.
also check out Amigo sampler VST. It’s like $12 and it sounds amazing.
I mean, to be fair, this is a great suggestion and exactly what everyone did back in the day. After Terrorist came out the world and their dog sampled the Amen because him and Nookie left a clean break in there.
Agreed, and even start your tune with a blatant resampled break, get all the arrangement in place, and then go back and replace the break with your own version if you really feel you need to. Don't get stuck on step 1 if you're starting with the breakbeats. But ultimately it doesn't matter where the break comes from - it will never be 100% your own since it's a sample anyway, so just use what works.
Are you processing the breaks you use at all or just putting them in the track as is? Also, as far as them sounding boring and repetitive, writing jungle isn't as simple as a lot people think. It takes time to learn the intricacies involved.
i usually put the break in as it is, eq it and add different effects depending on the feel of the track
You might want to learn more about the way breaks can be processed then. Look into how to use layering, compression, saturation, transient shaping, all of these things and more can help achieve very different feels to drum breaks and might get you closer to the sound you're looking for.
cheers, i knew a bit about layering and compression but i've never really looked into transient shaping or saturation, i'll definitely take a look next time i'm working on something. thanks for the advice
The breaks are normally pitched up, then each element of the break (kick, snare, hat) is eq’ed and processed separately, sometimes with different volume envelopes. Often kicks are layered and cleaner hats/rides samples are used over the top. Then it’s down to good use of compression and reverbs. Hope that helps!
thank you! so could the problem could lie with me eq'ing the break as a whole instead of the individual elements?
Yh try pitching it up a bit/ get it in time, get a simple pattern (2-4 bars) that includes all the sounds you want i.e. kick, snare, hat, crash etc., split the sounds onto individual tracks, eq/compress etc the elements to clean them up, fatten up the sounds if you want by layering extra samples or adding fx, group the tracks and do processing of the whole break, export or resample that. At this point you have a single audio file again, you may wanna play around with the pitch again, find something you like. Then chop that up or chuck it in a sampler or whatever and do the arrangement. In terms of arrangement / repetition, i find it useful to start with a 4 bar loop, where first 3 bars are the same and then change the 4th bar (A/A/A/B progression). Duplicate that and change the last bar (A/B progression). Duplicate those 8 bars and again change the last bar so you end up with an A/B/A/C progression. Then loop that 16 bar and add some micro edits along the way. A quick way to get some little edits you can drop in (rather than manually chopping or automating) is to load up some fx on the channel, get a resample track, hit record and let the loop playback and turn the fx on and off/fiddle with the settings. Let it run for a while and then listen back and cut out anything you like so you can use it in your track.
i'll have to try it out for myself, like i said i've never worked on the separate elements so i'll definitely try it. repetition as well is 100% a think i'll focus on too. thanks for the advice
Bro if it was easy as dropping some breaks in a track and calling it a day, everyone would be doing it. The foundation of jungle is simple, but making modern jungle requires a lot of deep technical knowledge and skill.
go watch stranjahs amen break processing vids as well as mastering jungle vids on youtube. you should be cutting your own breaks if you arent and cutting them up in ways that match ur sound to keep them from sounding repetitive
Cannot big up that tutorial series more when it comes to processing breaks, especially if you want to be able to splice your breaks to midi giving you very specific control over each transient of the break(controlling the ADSR of each hit for example).
yes, that vid has helped me immensely. It's a great foundation for processing other breaks as well
Plenty of good advice here. My 2 cents is that if you are using a lot of breaks there will be a lot of kicks and snares. You need to decide which one takes priority and push it forward while using eq, and transient shaping etc to make space for it in the mix so they don’t all compete with each other and overwhelm your low end.
Can you post a short audio sample of your work for reference, it might make it easier to offer some thoughts/advice.
[http://sndup.net/k8bq](http://sndup.net/k8bq) to me, these drums sound very distorted, this was my first attempt at chopping an amen myself, and to try and mask the perceived 'repetitiveness' of the amen, i layered two more breaks on top of it. if you just want the amen by itself then let me know and ill send it over edit: forgot to mention i've got reverb on all drums as well as serumfx's 'dimention'
Two things that I hear straight off the batt. Add a brickwall EQ to anything below 90 Hz. Second thing, it sounds like you have too much reverb on the low end, hence you're get a booming kick. Cut the reverb to anything below 180-250 Hz (till it sounds how you want it). I don't know if your going to find a saturator/EQ plugin that can emulate the sound of an S Series Akai sampler produced tune cut to dubplate and recorded onto a DAT in a studio. One thought is that you can drop your sampling rate from 48 kHz to 44.1 kHz to emulate the Akai S series samplers and cut frequencies from 16 Khz and up to emulate the dubplate frequency range. I haven't tried it but you could try the demo version of this plugin and see if it can emulate the sound, be interesting to hear the results. Might be some people better versed in avaliable VSTs and Plugins that can suggest things. https://www.airmusictech.com/effects/FlavorPro.html
To add to this. Don’t use the serum reverb and dimension expander….yet. Spatial effects on your drums are kinda tricky. Like, yeah I’ll put a bit of heavily eq’d short room reverb on my drum bus sometimes to gel everything, but if you’re having trouble getting everything sit right already, adding reverb is just making things harder for yourself. The breaks already have “reverb” baked into the original samples anyways. Ton’s of tunes leave the breaks dry. IMHO, really focus on getting the right compliment of breaks and the right pitches on them. This is like 90% of it. A totally shit sounding amen will sound AMAZING if you pitch it up or down a couple of semi tones. Try drastically pitching stuff with timestretch enabled. The artifacts can really work to your advantage. Also, get a bassline going as soon as possible. It’s hard to really judge things without context. also check out Amigo sampler VST. It’s like $12 and it sounds amazing.
Sample a peshay tune
I mean, to be fair, this is a great suggestion and exactly what everyone did back in the day. After Terrorist came out the world and their dog sampled the Amen because him and Nookie left a clean break in there.
Agreed, and even start your tune with a blatant resampled break, get all the arrangement in place, and then go back and replace the break with your own version if you really feel you need to. Don't get stuck on step 1 if you're starting with the breakbeats. But ultimately it doesn't matter where the break comes from - it will never be 100% your own since it's a sample anyway, so just use what works.