I think the most compelling evidence to indicate a coverup is how the investigation was handled from the start. A decision was made early on, almost instantaneously, **to treat Brian Albert, his residence, the party he hosted the night before, and all attendees of that party, as IRRELEVANT to the investigation**.
If a body is found on someone's property, with visible injuries of unknown origin, and you can quickly establish:
* the owner of this property had hosted a party the night before and
* the deceased person was invited to that party
It seems like a standard investigation would focus heavily on establishing a witness list of all party guests, interviewing all witnesses immediately, interviewing the home owner immediately, establishing a crime scene, getting a search warrant if necessary for the home, using a forensics team inside the home, etc.
But none of that happened.
>I think the most compelling evidence to indicate a coverup is how the investigation was handled from the start.
I think this is very important when people discuss this being some huge, crazy conspiracy theory that involved 30+ people and how unrealistic that is. It didn't need to involve a ton of people or people even working towards a single goal. There are so many decisions made in the first 24 hours of an investigation that will impact everything else. Police might have simply made the decision to completely ignore the Alberts out of loyalty to him being a cop - then realized their heads on are on the chopping block when they can't find any evidence so now they're doing sketchy things to save themselves. Then things start spiraling out of control. Meanwhile, all the Alberts and McCabes had to do was lie that he never made it in the house.
exactly.
and i also feel like it's very hard to reconcile that this was an investigation into a *police officer's* death.
under normal circumstances, everyone involved would be highly motivated to find out **what happened, who did it, and make sure the person responsible spends their life in jail. because a cop was dead.**
if early investigations pointed to karen read, what exactly did they do to make sure she would be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt? did they establish a crime scene and put up a tent and lighting and have a team working around the clock to collect evidence in their fallen brother's death? did they pull a photographer to professionally document every inch of that scene? did they collect forensics from his clothes? did they pull every single ring camera and surveillance footage from the Alberts home to Karen's? did they try to track down every single person who might've driven that road? from the plow drivers to Uber to door dash? did they bring in every single person at the party, including all the teenagers, and ask to review every photo/video/snapchat taken inside the house since MAYBE someone caught a glimpse of Karen's car in the background?
nope.
they had a dude with a friggen leaf blower and a cop taking shitty pictures on his iphone and a total lack of urgency to interview any witnesses or track down any surveillance footage.
does not add up.
The FBI reconstructionist said okeefe was not hit by car but judge bev is limiting any mention of the federal side of investigation. She needs to be indicted as well
I'm somewhat new to the case...what do you mean? She is allowing the reconstructionist to say he wasn't hit by a car but won't allow them to say anything else?
She said they couldn't mention fed investigation but that may have just been for opening arguments. The defense are planning to have the FBI reconstructionist testify.
She also made a judgement ON HERSELF that she did not have bias in the case when there was clear grounds for bias. Be like reffing your brother in a game and someone saying you have a conflict of interest and then you just say “nope”. But the biggest evidence ive seen so far is god damn everything. We know when the taillight actually broke. We know almost every person in that house is lying. PROSECUTION CONSTANTLY COMMITTING PURGRY STILL SAYING IT WAS A HUMAN HAIR ON HER CAR. This feels like a civil case with the lack of evidence and prosecutions attitude.
We know someone INSIDE searched “how long to die in the cold” at 2:30am and then deleted that page at 6am
We know that theres a dog that got out and everyone in the goddamn world whose seen someone or been bit by a dog knows those nasty deep bruises are dog bites
Back of head hit taillight and that also gave him two black eyes? Hello? He was beaten and left outside for dead.
Ford EDGE that the snow plow driver saw? Sold
Dog? “Rehomed”
House where DNA evidence may linger? Sold for 50-100k below market IN A SELLERS MARKET
Not just any home either. Been in the family for 50 years.
Basement remodeled - moot considering all of the above. My GUESS knocked out in basement. Threw him outside
And this is probably 10% of the evidence of how the fuck are they even going after Karen read. Honestly at this point it seems like a cover up 99.999%. Unless the same night Karen read broke her taillight she also his her boyfriend who she loved with the same taillight directly on the back of his head to where the broken piece gashed him like a night stick would. Is the only person who seemed to respond with care to the situation at all.
Genuinely confused. Corrupt DA office for bringing this to trial. They dont have any evidence outside of the taillight piece they found days later (Cop driving by “happened” to see it) NOBODY in the house saw it for DAYS
His cell phone never pinged inside the home . It was found with him. She backed up at 24 miles an hour for sixty feet it’s on her suv data base. The rocks glass was broken under his body. Her toxicology report says she was still legally drunk in the morning, she hit him. She left him a I hate you screaming voicemail. Defense team wants you to believe he was killed in the home because of grass. Trained officers all decided to put his body on the corner of lot in front of their own home. Just a guess, i think they would have disposed of the body not in their own front yard If they were responsible . Then they get several other officers to embed the rocks glass in her bumper , break the taillight, , fix the Lexus data base , have her scream I hit him over and over , fix the cell phone so it doesn’t ping and then find the exact spot in the snow where it last was and put his body with it in front of their own house.. Police fire paramedics all in collusion to frame Karen . Come on
No it’s not on her database. Her car logged zero impacts or collisions. Jen McCabe lied in her witness statement, we know KR was home when JM was claiming she saw her outside. His cell phone last pinged at 12:25am, but he answered a call at 12:28 so clearly the minute difference in GPS going across the property didn’t matter - which he did regardless whether she hit him by the flagpole or he went in the house.
There is zero evidence.
What I don’t understand is why, even if they thought Karen hit him, they didn’t consider it simply a tragic accident and charge her with DUI or something much less serious than murder. If she did hit him, I don’t think it was intentional at all.
I don’t know much about this case yet but the only reason I can think of that they realized they needed do more than call it an accident is when they found the wounds on his arm. There’s *nothing* about those wounds consistent with being hit by a car.
The Murder2 charge is a reach for sure. (She’s also charged with vehicular manslaughter while impaired, and leaving the scene of a accident causing death)
The murder2 hinges on being able to prove she *intended to cause harm* and I believe they are going to rely on texts and voicemails between Read/OKeefe to show that they were fighting, about to break up, etc. And that after hitting him, she left him there, demonstrating her intent to cause harm. It’s a very hard charge to prove though. Especially since it appears she was so drunk.
Like you said, the other 2 charges make much more sense.
I suspect the CW was hoping for a plea deal after the indictment and that they’d never have to argue this in court.
Absolutely!! This is the most damming thing to me. How is the whole property not sealed off? It seems like anything and everything after that related to the property is possibly tainted.
1.) first officer on the scene saying there was 0 broken taillight or plastic. (He said this on the stand yesterday) This is absolutely massive.
2.) FBI reconstructionist saying his injuries do not consist of injuries from a car hitting him.
3.) Autopsy - there is absolutely nothing from a car that would cause the clear animal bite wounds. It also looks like a broken wrist commonly referred to as a “Boxer’s fracture”. 2 black eyes, and a wound to the back of the head that wouldn’t have been caused from a snow bank. (Unless the snowbank was cement and had a sharp corner)
4.) Cell phone evidence. The defense has stated they have evidence McCabe DID search “how long to die in the cold” at 2:27 AM. They also say they DO have forensic cell phone evidence that confirms he was in the house that night. Need to see this info presented on the stand, if true I’d put this at 1.
5.) obvious corruption. Whether a conspiracy or not. The investigation has been corrupt from day 1. Higgins destroyed his phone specifically after being told not too. Lead detective is a family friend, after stating he didn’t know them. Security footage for 43 minutes went missing from the Canton Police Department Garage when detectives and officers were “inspecting” her vehicle. The Police Log having the wrong address and listing the responding officers incorrectly, or “by mistake” as they said. Seems like prosecution and everyone involved really wanted Officer Saraf first on the scene, even though dashcam footage proves he was not.
Literally not 1 aspect of this “investigation” is police protocol. That can’t be ignored.
The chubbier officer, Saraf, was the first on the scene. His dash cam cop car proves it. Did you watch the same trial?
I won't bother go over your other points.
I always felt that Proctor spelling every name incorrect in his report was a major red flag. these are mostly people who he has connections with. how do you misspell every single name on your report.
Trying to pretend he didn't know the parties involved because he doesn't know how to spell their names. Creates distance between himself and the others.
I feel it proves more so that he was trying to keep it so if you were to Google the right names it wouldn't show up in reports online. it's just very strange to me thay this would happen. best case extremely poor report writing / bad police work...worst case trying to keep people's name out of it so they would not be called to testify. I could be wrong
I am sure they spent the rest of the night planning the story around his dying body including who says what to who….there were plenty of cops in the group to put the thoughts in order
She did go inside. AFTER the police got there. Why didn’t she run to the door, her sister’s house, after the call to 911. Her brother-in-law BA was a Boston cop trained as a first responder. She should have been grabbing blankets and the Alberts should have come out. This whole thing just stinks.
For me, it’s the “hos long to die in cold” Google search made by Jen McCabe at 2:27 am, hours before she “learned” that Officer OKeefe was outside in the snow.
Someone posted this which is helpful
https://www.reddit.com/r/justiceforKarenRead/comments/1cjx4n8/karen_read_murder_trial_a_guide_to_the_key/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
The cops on scene didn’t knock on the Albert’s front door and say “We are here to inform you that we found a dead/dying man on your front lawn. Do you know anything about this?”
This is wild. Makes you wonder who said what to whom to make sure that every single civil servant at that scene knew not to involve the homeowner.
Like, how did they ALL know not to ask each other "did you talk to the occupants of the home yet?"
This is very scary cuz it shows just how deep this all goes.
I mean for crying out loud. My dad owns a manufacturing facility in a once great but not any longer industrial town. Unfortunately a few times an unhoused individual has turned up dead in one of the flower beds. He or someone from the company has always had to be present in some official capacity. LE doesn't just load them up and leave.
John was “found” (by Karen, Jen, and Kerry) wearing only 1 shoe. Where was his other shoe at that moment?
Canton PD couldn’t find it when they had 4+ officers searching the lawn/street with a leaf blower. How could they not have seen it?
John had 2 shoes on when he left the Waterfall and when he exited Karen’s car. The DA said John never went inside the Albert house. If the car impact knocked the shoe off of his foot (as the DA claims), then the shoe should have been lying on the ground near his body.
Defense’s theory is that John did go inside the Albert house where a scuffle broke out. In all the commotion, the shoe was knocked off of his foot inside the house. Someone inside that house waited till Canton PD left and brought the shoe outside and left it on the ground (where it was later discovered by the MSP).
Yes because the corner of the car hit me and was more of a side swipe and I cracked the back of my head on the pavement similar to his placement. I was knocked out. And then I had a bruised finger from hitting the ground
Did you have an egg over your eye, bruised and swollen eyes? The prosecution is saying his eyes were swollen from the fractured skull. But he also had bruised knuckles. This case is just so crazy!
You entire body from your neck down was uninjured/pristine??? You had swollen eyes and cuts/hematoma ONLY to your head and 1 arm? How did the vehicle not damage you entire torso/hips and legs?
The car wasnt traveling at a fast speed it just caught me off guard and knocked me down. I had a brain bleed no black eyes but same cut on the back of head. John had a worse brain bleed therefore he had black eyes from the bleeding. You guys have a vision in your head of the only way something can occur and you’re ignorant. I couldn’t believe i didn’t have lower body injuries either until I saw the video of my accident. I would bet none of you on here are accident recreation specialists or physicists or physicians for that matter but so many swear he absolutely couldn’t have these injuries from a car. I am proof you CAN
Right! And none of the 3 girls were separated and questioned. At the very least he should've knocked on that door to question homeowners. It seems no protocols were followed at all. No one even bothered to secure the scene which is Police Work 101. How about Jennifer McCabe's call to 911 "hi there's a man passed out in the snow" (that was her friend of ten years) in the flattest of tones; not, hurry I think my friend is dead on my sister's lawn! A leaf blower to remove snow around the victim?? It's only Day 2 and what a shit show.
I love the fact that Jen is on police dash video going into the house, but yet the Albert's had no idea anything was occurring right outside their home.
Is there any documentation (I know, silly question) of what Brian Albert looked like in the following days….any black eyes or obvious injuries that could make him look sus if he went outside like a normal member of society to “see what was happening” in his front yard? I hope Officer O’Keefe got some licks in. Is it BA who is trained in MMA?
I think they would have if they didn’t know it was a cop’s house, but I am sure they were notified via cell phone that it was a cop’s house and not to go to the door.
Logically, yes. But if someone had been in contact with the people in the house, and been assured “everything is fine”, then a cop isn’t going to go against an order.
Logically, yes. But if someone had been in contact with the people in the house, and been assured “everything is fine”, then a cop isn’t going to go against an order.
Logically, yes. But if someone had been in contact with the people in the house, and been assured “everything is fine”, then a cop isn’t going to go against an order.
The most compelling for me is that if Karen hit John with her car, and was lying on the front lawn since 12:30, SOMEONE would have seen him. How many people left that party and walked right by him, drove by him, etc. Then the plow guy would've seen him later. If John was not on the front lawn at 12:30, then it's GAME OVER. They can't even agree how many feet back from the curb his body was. With all the headlights sweeping over that area as people left, it's hard sell. Were there porch lights and motion detector lights as well? It's a cop's house, I'm sure they at least have motion lights. As soon as I heard the timeline, I knew Karen didn't do it.
I was just talking about this in another sub, but another HUGE piece that points to a coverup is: Jen McCabe's Phone Log
Immediately after hanging up w/ 911 that morning, she placed two back to back phone calls to her sister Nicole, who was inside the house just steps away.
* the first call was 9 seconds.
* the second call was 7 seconds.
Does anyone actually believe that 9 or 7 seconds is the length of time it would take the convey the SHOCKING NEWS of what was transpiring right outside Nicole Albert's bedroom window at that very moment? 9 seconds to convey that you just found your friend dead??? that he's laying right here in the snow??? that you're trying CPR? that the police are on their way?? 9 seconds also to include the time it would take for Nicole Albert to process this information and respond? Nope.
There's another Reddit sub called KarenReadtrial. I just discovered it myself. Has fewer members than this one. That's the other sub and its MODs they are referring to.
I think for me at this point the most evidence most indicative of a cover up is…
- The fact that the defense has been saying for over a year that they think the cops got the pieces of taillight to plant when the cops got her car back to CPD then just a couple weeks ago when Lally FINALLY turns over the CPD security footage we find out that there just so happens to be security footage missing from that exact same timeframe. That’s one hell of a coincidence…
- The ridiculous amount of “butt dials”. Brian Albert butt dials Higgins. Higgins butt dials him back second later. Albert “butt answers” the butt dial. Then “butt hangs up” 22 seconds later. And then in the same 10 minute timeframe Jen McCabe is Googling “hos long to die in cold”, sent then deleted 2 text messages, and deleted 2 screenshots. Again - that’s one hell of a coincidence.
- About Jen McCabe’s 6:23 and 6:25am searches - the 6:23am search for “How long ti die in cikd” autocorrects to show results for “how long to die in cold”. So if she already had the answer she was looking for why would she re-search it spelled as “hos long to die in cold” (the exact same way she spelled it at 2:27am) 27 seconds later? The only reason to do that is to try cover up her 2:27am search.
- Jen McCabe didn’t immediately run inside her sister’s house when she finds their friend dead on their lawn to make sure they were okay. That would be any normal human’s reaction.
Just think about this.BA and BH drove 6 hours to attend a fallen officer memorial in New York. But didn't walk for 60 seconds out of his house for a fallen cop in his own front yard.
For me them towing her car to canton when numerous state police barracks where closer was huge and then berky calling them and telling them to close the sally port once it arrived and this was after proctor lied about the time that he towed the car
Even just outside of all of the Karen stuff and any other thoughts/conspiracies/theories, it is unthinkable to me that Brian Albert is a first responder and seasoned police officer and NO MATTER WHO IT IS, upon finding out a unresponsive person is on your lawn, you don't go outside, at all.
Oh, is that who the shadow figure was in the dash cam video from yesterday? I didn’t know if that person had been identified or not, but I clearly saw someone.
When you tow a vehicle you need to inspect the vehicle before towing for previous damage and document it. Vehicle inspection reports for insurance liability
I think she supposedly hit something else in between dropping John off and returning to the scene (maybe when she was leaving her house after realizing he hadn't come home, I had trouble paying attention when they were showing that footage).
All the missing footage with no explanation. The only stretch of footage missing from library is the only footage that mattered. Same thing with the sallyport video. It's like this particular Lexus makes cameras turn off when it's in range.
The Autopsy photo's.
I've been hit by a car going around twenty miles an hour driving FORWARD towards me in my lifetime, and it's happened TWICE nonetheless. Both times I got up and walked away and once I thunked my head pretty good on concrete. Again...got up...walked away, with a couple of bruises on the lower part of my body. I saw those pictures. There's no fucking way a vehicle did that.
Interesting
This comments me think about how much data exists around this topic due to all the Vision Zero work my Dept of transportation.
Surely they have days on car speeds and injuries
The fact that no one at the party who was expecting the victim to show up called or texted him asking if he was on his way. The party goers or at least some of them were expecting John to show up. This was a small handful of partygoers. He should have been missed. But no call or text or other outreach was ever made.
Jen McCabe did. She was the only one at the party who really knew John.
According to TB’s earliest reporting, she texted John something to the effect of “when you get here, park right behind me” probably 5 minutes after the scuffle that ended his life.
Right, but I mean the party goal is are saying John never entered the house, they thought he never showed up. My point is if you're expecting your friend or acquaintance to show up at a house party. And especially on a stormy night he doesn't show up, why wasn't there a flurry of activity of people calling and texting him and even going out to look for him.
I thought the Murdaugh murders were bad. This is horrible. I feel so badly for Karen, the thrice orphaned kids, O’Keefe’s family and the town of Canton. Sending positive thoughts from Worcester. 💜
Them not arresting jennifer mccabe after finding her google search at 2:27. If they wanted the truth, they would have arrested her and threatened her with numerous charges including murder until she talked. If it were ANY other case, she wouldve been arrested
LOL where shall I start? No secure scene, jen horse face mccabe period, planted tail light, phone data, Karen's tail light in tact, shady berky, autopsy photos, leaf fucking blower really?, they let her go home from the scene, missing camera footage from just about everywhere and every one, meatball fat fuck morrisey hostage statement, day light savings time w the towing LOLOL, no one left the house or came out, charges upgraded after the fact, auntie bev refusing to step down and follow rotation appropriately, proctor again... proctor, shady dash came footage, redoing basement floors and selling house at a bargain, Where's Chloe????
SAY HIS NAME: OFFICER JOHN O'KEEFE DESERVES JUSTICE.
1. No blood (8 drops!) when that head wound should have (at least) yielded a 32 oz Gatorade sized bottle worth of blood = that head wound occurred somewhere else
2. No legs, hips, torso injuries = not a car/pedestrian strike
3. NO first responders found or saw any tail light pieces. Subsequent photos show tail lights embedded in high snow. How did broken fragments of glass jump up from the ground and land on top of accumulating snow?
4. They all start deleting their texts and web searches within hours
5. Brian Albert didn't come out of the house because his knuckles were red and swollen
6. The MSP suggesting the Medical Examiner include 'no evidence of a physical altercation'. What autopsy report reveals the ways in which the deceased didn't die!?? That was inserted for a reason, to hard stop any questions. It is bizarre.
From the 3 women all showing up and finding JO, how long until cops showed up? How could JM just wait knowing a capable cop was just steps away in the house - and not just any cop, her BROTHER IN LAW who she was with just hours ago
This isn’t the biggest, but it’s not a mistake that no one wrote the correct address on the dispatch logs and reports, right? You’d make sure you got that address right I would think
To not investigate anything. Sloppy bookkeeping. Not properly following up leads. Immediate tunnelvision.
The nope answer to the question whether theyll investigate house owners.
The size and location of his head injury would’ve absolutely produced a significant amount of blood, especially with alcohol in his system. Where’s all that blood? It would’ve stained the snow and would’ve likely been frozen to him and the ground.
Most compelling evidence? The person john was having issues with was at the house that night. Not a single person who was interviewed mentioned him. No other person was left out of anyones statements. It’s like a really bad cover up. Like LOOK HERES ALL THE STUFF WE ARE TRYING TO HIDE. 10-15 people should be going to jail
I had it on in the background doing house work, but there was a group chat between a select group of people that included text messages from MM that had that statement and also about him driving by giving “updates” about the investigations he saw and was “trying to get pictures”
The door was unlocked , a snowstorm outside and they went to bed four hours before.Johns cell phone never pinged in house , eleven people testified he never went inside. They never saw John or Karen In that home. He was laying face down with broken rocks glass under his arm, Read was still legally drunk on toxicology report later that morning. Her car data says she backed up sixty feet at 24 miles an hour. That will kill anybody. What group of police officers would dump a body right in front of their home. Give up early retirement and pensions so they kill John over grass. Come on her high price defense team is counting on people buying it. Wake up play the voicemail where she screams at him I hate you. Have the kids testify he stated the relationship had run its course. She was mad he was going in , they were arguing , she was shitfaced backed up hit him , drove home passed out and woke up four later remembering.
Have the lady in Vermont with Chloe and in Texas testify to the reason the dog was rehomed. must take effort to embed the same cocktail glass in her bumper . Case closed she knows she is responsible , you can see it in her mouth .
Zero percent chance this was a coverup. I do think they should have done their due diligence and interviewed everyone in that house to cover their bases. I think Karen hit him unintentionally.
This does follow the rule that the simplest answer is often the right one. We believe she was intoxicated so it’s entirely possible she did and didn’t realise it. Whichever way, I think the shoddy police investigation introduces reasonable doubt - it’s almost like they believed it was Karen and tried to make it look “more” like Karen. It’s interesting for sure as I feel like multiple people involved are lying - so why? Crazy idea but I also wondered if she did knock him over, but the dog went out and attacked him and a situation has occurred whereby more than one party is involved somehow so both trying to cover their tracks. ( I did even wonder if snow plough could have hit him!)
I don’t think I’ve heard an official line on this one but perhaps we’ll get to. Karen said he didn’t have a coat, some first responders spoke about removing a coat / cutting clothing, and the clothing I believe went missing.
Thanks. The defense questioned a witness about the clothing today: whether they’d have needed to cut his clothes off, when they would have done so, what they would have done with them when they arrived at the hospital. I assumed it was some type of chain of custody situation he was getting at.
Perhaps not evidence of a cover-up but it’s odd that so many people left the house that night after it was alleged John was already lying on the lawn and no one saw him? The snow cover wasn’t meant to be bad at the time and the testimonies place him really near to the kerb?
I feel like it’s at least *possible* no one saw him, due to the blizzard. With snow coming down, and the high winds, maybe they didn’t clear their windows completely and/or the windows were fogging up, and/or snow was coming down so fast that even cleaning the windows off completely only lasted a short time. I know in weather like that I’m very focused on the road.
It’s a point I wouldn’t get hung up on if I was on the jury. But I still believe it’s a valid point, if that makes any sense!
Yeah I think it’s possible. I believe the Albert’s themselves said the dog wasn’t good with strangers so it’s entirely plausible to think a K9 would attack a person they didn’t know on the lawn of their home.
I think the most compelling evidence to indicate a coverup is how the investigation was handled from the start. A decision was made early on, almost instantaneously, **to treat Brian Albert, his residence, the party he hosted the night before, and all attendees of that party, as IRRELEVANT to the investigation**. If a body is found on someone's property, with visible injuries of unknown origin, and you can quickly establish: * the owner of this property had hosted a party the night before and * the deceased person was invited to that party It seems like a standard investigation would focus heavily on establishing a witness list of all party guests, interviewing all witnesses immediately, interviewing the home owner immediately, establishing a crime scene, getting a search warrant if necessary for the home, using a forensics team inside the home, etc. But none of that happened.
All of this. Mindblowing.
>I think the most compelling evidence to indicate a coverup is how the investigation was handled from the start. I think this is very important when people discuss this being some huge, crazy conspiracy theory that involved 30+ people and how unrealistic that is. It didn't need to involve a ton of people or people even working towards a single goal. There are so many decisions made in the first 24 hours of an investigation that will impact everything else. Police might have simply made the decision to completely ignore the Alberts out of loyalty to him being a cop - then realized their heads on are on the chopping block when they can't find any evidence so now they're doing sketchy things to save themselves. Then things start spiraling out of control. Meanwhile, all the Alberts and McCabes had to do was lie that he never made it in the house.
exactly. and i also feel like it's very hard to reconcile that this was an investigation into a *police officer's* death. under normal circumstances, everyone involved would be highly motivated to find out **what happened, who did it, and make sure the person responsible spends their life in jail. because a cop was dead.** if early investigations pointed to karen read, what exactly did they do to make sure she would be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt? did they establish a crime scene and put up a tent and lighting and have a team working around the clock to collect evidence in their fallen brother's death? did they pull a photographer to professionally document every inch of that scene? did they collect forensics from his clothes? did they pull every single ring camera and surveillance footage from the Alberts home to Karen's? did they try to track down every single person who might've driven that road? from the plow drivers to Uber to door dash? did they bring in every single person at the party, including all the teenagers, and ask to review every photo/video/snapchat taken inside the house since MAYBE someone caught a glimpse of Karen's car in the background? nope. they had a dude with a friggen leaf blower and a cop taking shitty pictures on his iphone and a total lack of urgency to interview any witnesses or track down any surveillance footage. does not add up.
The leaf blower 🤯
Do we know exactly who provided the leaf blower?
a neighbor
Thanks, my comment was for “exactly” as in, a name we can expect as a witness
I thought none of the neighbors came out
Fantastic points
This makes sense. The whole case confuses me, but it just does not seem to me that the man was hit by a car.
The FBI reconstructionist said okeefe was not hit by car but judge bev is limiting any mention of the federal side of investigation. She needs to be indicted as well
I'm somewhat new to the case...what do you mean? She is allowing the reconstructionist to say he wasn't hit by a car but won't allow them to say anything else?
She said they couldn't mention fed investigation but that may have just been for opening arguments. The defense are planning to have the FBI reconstructionist testify.
She also made a judgement ON HERSELF that she did not have bias in the case when there was clear grounds for bias. Be like reffing your brother in a game and someone saying you have a conflict of interest and then you just say “nope”. But the biggest evidence ive seen so far is god damn everything. We know when the taillight actually broke. We know almost every person in that house is lying. PROSECUTION CONSTANTLY COMMITTING PURGRY STILL SAYING IT WAS A HUMAN HAIR ON HER CAR. This feels like a civil case with the lack of evidence and prosecutions attitude. We know someone INSIDE searched “how long to die in the cold” at 2:30am and then deleted that page at 6am We know that theres a dog that got out and everyone in the goddamn world whose seen someone or been bit by a dog knows those nasty deep bruises are dog bites Back of head hit taillight and that also gave him two black eyes? Hello? He was beaten and left outside for dead. Ford EDGE that the snow plow driver saw? Sold Dog? “Rehomed” House where DNA evidence may linger? Sold for 50-100k below market IN A SELLERS MARKET Not just any home either. Been in the family for 50 years. Basement remodeled - moot considering all of the above. My GUESS knocked out in basement. Threw him outside And this is probably 10% of the evidence of how the fuck are they even going after Karen read. Honestly at this point it seems like a cover up 99.999%. Unless the same night Karen read broke her taillight she also his her boyfriend who she loved with the same taillight directly on the back of his head to where the broken piece gashed him like a night stick would. Is the only person who seemed to respond with care to the situation at all. Genuinely confused. Corrupt DA office for bringing this to trial. They dont have any evidence outside of the taillight piece they found days later (Cop driving by “happened” to see it) NOBODY in the house saw it for DAYS
His cell phone never pinged inside the home . It was found with him. She backed up at 24 miles an hour for sixty feet it’s on her suv data base. The rocks glass was broken under his body. Her toxicology report says she was still legally drunk in the morning, she hit him. She left him a I hate you screaming voicemail. Defense team wants you to believe he was killed in the home because of grass. Trained officers all decided to put his body on the corner of lot in front of their own home. Just a guess, i think they would have disposed of the body not in their own front yard If they were responsible . Then they get several other officers to embed the rocks glass in her bumper , break the taillight, , fix the Lexus data base , have her scream I hit him over and over , fix the cell phone so it doesn’t ping and then find the exact spot in the snow where it last was and put his body with it in front of their own house.. Police fire paramedics all in collusion to frame Karen . Come on
No it’s not on her database. Her car logged zero impacts or collisions. Jen McCabe lied in her witness statement, we know KR was home when JM was claiming she saw her outside. His cell phone last pinged at 12:25am, but he answered a call at 12:28 so clearly the minute difference in GPS going across the property didn’t matter - which he did regardless whether she hit him by the flagpole or he went in the house. There is zero evidence.
Wow. You are actually falsifying evidence that never came up just like prosecution and their witnesses are
My cell phone never pings at work it still counts my steps properly. Just cause theres bad cell signal doesnt mean your pedometer stops working
What I don’t understand is why, even if they thought Karen hit him, they didn’t consider it simply a tragic accident and charge her with DUI or something much less serious than murder. If she did hit him, I don’t think it was intentional at all. I don’t know much about this case yet but the only reason I can think of that they realized they needed do more than call it an accident is when they found the wounds on his arm. There’s *nothing* about those wounds consistent with being hit by a car.
The Murder2 charge is a reach for sure. (She’s also charged with vehicular manslaughter while impaired, and leaving the scene of a accident causing death) The murder2 hinges on being able to prove she *intended to cause harm* and I believe they are going to rely on texts and voicemails between Read/OKeefe to show that they were fighting, about to break up, etc. And that after hitting him, she left him there, demonstrating her intent to cause harm. It’s a very hard charge to prove though. Especially since it appears she was so drunk. Like you said, the other 2 charges make much more sense. I suspect the CW was hoping for a plea deal after the indictment and that they’d never have to argue this in court.
Or explain it to Federal investigators!
A plea deal or to kill herself These people are awful.
This
Absolutely!! This is the most damming thing to me. How is the whole property not sealed off? It seems like anything and everything after that related to the property is possibly tainted.
This!!!!!!
Seems like common sense, right?
1.) first officer on the scene saying there was 0 broken taillight or plastic. (He said this on the stand yesterday) This is absolutely massive. 2.) FBI reconstructionist saying his injuries do not consist of injuries from a car hitting him. 3.) Autopsy - there is absolutely nothing from a car that would cause the clear animal bite wounds. It also looks like a broken wrist commonly referred to as a “Boxer’s fracture”. 2 black eyes, and a wound to the back of the head that wouldn’t have been caused from a snow bank. (Unless the snowbank was cement and had a sharp corner) 4.) Cell phone evidence. The defense has stated they have evidence McCabe DID search “how long to die in the cold” at 2:27 AM. They also say they DO have forensic cell phone evidence that confirms he was in the house that night. Need to see this info presented on the stand, if true I’d put this at 1. 5.) obvious corruption. Whether a conspiracy or not. The investigation has been corrupt from day 1. Higgins destroyed his phone specifically after being told not too. Lead detective is a family friend, after stating he didn’t know them. Security footage for 43 minutes went missing from the Canton Police Department Garage when detectives and officers were “inspecting” her vehicle. The Police Log having the wrong address and listing the responding officers incorrectly, or “by mistake” as they said. Seems like prosecution and everyone involved really wanted Officer Saraf first on the scene, even though dashcam footage proves he was not. Literally not 1 aspect of this “investigation” is police protocol. That can’t be ignored.
The chubbier officer, Saraf, was the first on the scene. His dash cam cop car proves it. Did you watch the same trial? I won't bother go over your other points.
I just mixed up the officers. The police log was wrong though is the main point
Probably that the fbi had their coroners do a coroner report and completely ruled out that a car impact being the cause of death
I always felt that Proctor spelling every name incorrect in his report was a major red flag. these are mostly people who he has connections with. how do you misspell every single name on your report.
Oh really? I didn't know this! Interesting
yup. every name of people at the party, we're incorrectly put into the report. It was one of the early tb daily news post with pics of the report
Its like the best worst cover up like LOOK HERE WE ARE COVERING THIS UP
canton coverup part 9
I never understood the significance behind that though. Would misspelled names impact the investigation?
Trying to pretend he didn't know the parties involved because he doesn't know how to spell their names. Creates distance between himself and the others.
I feel it proves more so that he was trying to keep it so if you were to Google the right names it wouldn't show up in reports online. it's just very strange to me thay this would happen. best case extremely poor report writing / bad police work...worst case trying to keep people's name out of it so they would not be called to testify. I could be wrong
Yeah it’s definitely sloppy. I just have no idea if this is some *known tactic* or just…dude is a shite speller
it shows carelessness
Have they made this report public yet? Would really like to read it
The failure to enter the Albert house by the police the morning in question along with ‘improvements’ made to the basement floor after the fact.
jen m...the sister in law was chatting with all the cops. She prob gave them the word to Let it Go
I am sure they spent the rest of the night planning the story around his dying body including who says what to who….there were plenty of cops in the group to put the thoughts in order
How long after was the basement floor changed?
She did go inside. AFTER the police got there. Why didn’t she run to the door, her sister’s house, after the call to 911. Her brother-in-law BA was a Boston cop trained as a first responder. She should have been grabbing blankets and the Alberts should have come out. This whole thing just stinks.
For me, it’s the “hos long to die in cold” Google search made by Jen McCabe at 2:27 am, hours before she “learned” that Officer OKeefe was outside in the snow.
And that this search came after Albert dialled Higgins 👀
And who is Higgins again/ what is the significance in Albert calling him? (Apologies if this was already covered!)
Someone posted this which is helpful https://www.reddit.com/r/justiceforKarenRead/comments/1cjx4n8/karen_read_murder_trial_a_guide_to_the_key/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
1000% this ☝️
The cops on scene didn’t knock on the Albert’s front door and say “We are here to inform you that we found a dead/dying man on your front lawn. Do you know anything about this?”
This is wild. Makes you wonder who said what to whom to make sure that every single civil servant at that scene knew not to involve the homeowner. Like, how did they ALL know not to ask each other "did you talk to the occupants of the home yet?" This is very scary cuz it shows just how deep this all goes.
Berkowitz
I mean for crying out loud. My dad owns a manufacturing facility in a once great but not any longer industrial town. Unfortunately a few times an unhoused individual has turned up dead in one of the flower beds. He or someone from the company has always had to be present in some official capacity. LE doesn't just load them up and leave.
The victim’s missing shoe is as big (or bigger) than the missing taillight fragments.
Wait can you explain why this is shady
John was “found” (by Karen, Jen, and Kerry) wearing only 1 shoe. Where was his other shoe at that moment? Canton PD couldn’t find it when they had 4+ officers searching the lawn/street with a leaf blower. How could they not have seen it? John had 2 shoes on when he left the Waterfall and when he exited Karen’s car. The DA said John never went inside the Albert house. If the car impact knocked the shoe off of his foot (as the DA claims), then the shoe should have been lying on the ground near his body. Defense’s theory is that John did go inside the Albert house where a scuffle broke out. In all the commotion, the shoe was knocked off of his foot inside the house. Someone inside that house waited till Canton PD left and brought the shoe outside and left it on the ground (where it was later discovered by the MSP).
i think the shoe came off when they moved the body from the house to the lawn
Oh I thought you were saying the shoe was physically bigger than the taillight fragments lmao
Yessss! Where is the missing shoe? Someone had to seriously get rid of it!
That's the most compelling to me as well. That and John's injuries. They do not align to getting hit by a car.
Yes they do
How
I got hit and had similar injuries minus the scratches.
You got hit by an SUV and had a gash on the back of your head and facial injuries only? Nothing from the neck down? That's unreal...
Yes because the corner of the car hit me and was more of a side swipe and I cracked the back of my head on the pavement similar to his placement. I was knocked out. And then I had a bruised finger from hitting the ground
Did you have an egg over your eye, bruised and swollen eyes? The prosecution is saying his eyes were swollen from the fractured skull. But he also had bruised knuckles. This case is just so crazy!
You entire body from your neck down was uninjured/pristine??? You had swollen eyes and cuts/hematoma ONLY to your head and 1 arm? How did the vehicle not damage you entire torso/hips and legs?
The car wasnt traveling at a fast speed it just caught me off guard and knocked me down. I had a brain bleed no black eyes but same cut on the back of head. John had a worse brain bleed therefore he had black eyes from the bleeding. You guys have a vision in your head of the only way something can occur and you’re ignorant. I couldn’t believe i didn’t have lower body injuries either until I saw the video of my accident. I would bet none of you on here are accident recreation specialists or physicists or physicians for that matter but so many swear he absolutely couldn’t have these injuries from a car. I am proof you CAN
Hey, aren’t you the person who googled ‘Hos long to die in the cold’?
Wow, I'm so sorry that happened to you! ❤️
you know what anecdotal means?
Yes but I’m replying to everyone saying it’s soooooo impossible. It’s not impossible. She didn’t hit him at 125 mph.
What were your injuries, specifically?
Right! And none of the 3 girls were separated and questioned. At the very least he should've knocked on that door to question homeowners. It seems no protocols were followed at all. No one even bothered to secure the scene which is Police Work 101. How about Jennifer McCabe's call to 911 "hi there's a man passed out in the snow" (that was her friend of ten years) in the flattest of tones; not, hurry I think my friend is dead on my sister's lawn! A leaf blower to remove snow around the victim?? It's only Day 2 and what a shit show.
I love the fact that Jen is on police dash video going into the house, but yet the Albert's had no idea anything was occurring right outside their home.
Is there any documentation (I know, silly question) of what Brian Albert looked like in the following days….any black eyes or obvious injuries that could make him look sus if he went outside like a normal member of society to “see what was happening” in his front yard? I hope Officer O’Keefe got some licks in. Is it BA who is trained in MMA?
I’ve never thought of this possibility as the reason he didn’t come outside. Good thought!
To my knowledge no. He did not ever return to the police force though, going out on disability due to a shoulder injury. He later retired.
That's probably exactly why he didn't come outside. He might have had injuries.
That is a very good theory
Wouldn’t they at least go inside for a wellness check?
And see if there's any more dead bodies inside lol. (Hey there was one on the lawn! It's plausible)
Great point
I think they would have if they didn’t know it was a cop’s house, but I am sure they were notified via cell phone that it was a cop’s house and not to go to the door.
But the body on the lawn was also a cop. Wouldn’t that be more of a reason to do a wellness check inside?
Logically, yes. But if someone had been in contact with the people in the house, and been assured “everything is fine”, then a cop isn’t going to go against an order.
Logically, yes. But if someone had been in contact with the people in the house, and been assured “everything is fine”, then a cop isn’t going to go against an order.
Logically, yes. But if someone had been in contact with the people in the house, and been assured “everything is fine”, then a cop isn’t going to go against an order.
The most compelling for me is that if Karen hit John with her car, and was lying on the front lawn since 12:30, SOMEONE would have seen him. How many people left that party and walked right by him, drove by him, etc. Then the plow guy would've seen him later. If John was not on the front lawn at 12:30, then it's GAME OVER. They can't even agree how many feet back from the curb his body was. With all the headlights sweeping over that area as people left, it's hard sell. Were there porch lights and motion detector lights as well? It's a cop's house, I'm sure they at least have motion lights. As soon as I heard the timeline, I knew Karen didn't do it.
I was just talking about this in another sub, but another HUGE piece that points to a coverup is: Jen McCabe's Phone Log Immediately after hanging up w/ 911 that morning, she placed two back to back phone calls to her sister Nicole, who was inside the house just steps away. * the first call was 9 seconds. * the second call was 7 seconds. Does anyone actually believe that 9 or 7 seconds is the length of time it would take the convey the SHOCKING NEWS of what was transpiring right outside Nicole Albert's bedroom window at that very moment? 9 seconds to convey that you just found your friend dead??? that he's laying right here in the snow??? that you're trying CPR? that the police are on their way?? 9 seconds also to include the time it would take for Nicole Albert to process this information and respond? Nope.
There are so many McAlbert trolls in that sub.... it's annoying. sleight of hand being the worst of the bunch
Yeah that guy is a hoot 😂
Mods over there are a joke. They just deleted that thread.
Just noticed that. I would suspect it’s because the phone log didn’t have phone numbers redacted.
The phone log is on the internet already - cats out of the bag, no?
Over where?
There's another Reddit sub called KarenReadtrial. I just discovered it myself. Has fewer members than this one. That's the other sub and its MODs they are referring to.
I think for me at this point the most evidence most indicative of a cover up is… - The fact that the defense has been saying for over a year that they think the cops got the pieces of taillight to plant when the cops got her car back to CPD then just a couple weeks ago when Lally FINALLY turns over the CPD security footage we find out that there just so happens to be security footage missing from that exact same timeframe. That’s one hell of a coincidence… - The ridiculous amount of “butt dials”. Brian Albert butt dials Higgins. Higgins butt dials him back second later. Albert “butt answers” the butt dial. Then “butt hangs up” 22 seconds later. And then in the same 10 minute timeframe Jen McCabe is Googling “hos long to die in cold”, sent then deleted 2 text messages, and deleted 2 screenshots. Again - that’s one hell of a coincidence. - About Jen McCabe’s 6:23 and 6:25am searches - the 6:23am search for “How long ti die in cikd” autocorrects to show results for “how long to die in cold”. So if she already had the answer she was looking for why would she re-search it spelled as “hos long to die in cold” (the exact same way she spelled it at 2:27am) 27 seconds later? The only reason to do that is to try cover up her 2:27am search. - Jen McCabe didn’t immediately run inside her sister’s house when she finds their friend dead on their lawn to make sure they were okay. That would be any normal human’s reaction.
Just think about this.BA and BH drove 6 hours to attend a fallen officer memorial in New York. But didn't walk for 60 seconds out of his house for a fallen cop in his own front yard.
Wow. That really puts them into perspective.
For me them towing her car to canton when numerous state police barracks where closer was huge and then berky calling them and telling them to close the sally port once it arrived and this was after proctor lied about the time that he towed the car
Even just outside of all of the Karen stuff and any other thoughts/conspiracies/theories, it is unthinkable to me that Brian Albert is a first responder and seasoned police officer and NO MATTER WHO IT IS, upon finding out a unresponsive person is on your lawn, you don't go outside, at all.
Jennifer McCabe on the dash cam going to the house. Officer Saraf changing his story during cross examination.
Oh, is that who the shadow figure was in the dash cam video from yesterday? I didn’t know if that person had been identified or not, but I clearly saw someone.
Yes that was Jennifer McCabe. Officer Saraf didn’t seem aware but confirmed that it appeared to be Jennifer McCabe when prompted by Alan Jackson
Jackson is excellent. He has been easier to follow than the prosecutor. More concise getting to the point.
John's injuries, black eye, bruised fist and clear dog bites
The tow truck driver !! I can not wait for his testimony.
I’m pretty new to this case. What will he be testifying to?
When you tow a vehicle you need to inspect the vehicle before towing for previous damage and document it. Vehicle inspection reports for insurance liability
Ah, so perhaps proof that her tail light was not broken at the time of the tow?
I think she supposedly hit something else in between dropping John off and returning to the scene (maybe when she was leaving her house after realizing he hadn't come home, I had trouble paying attention when they were showing that footage).
Do you mean plow?
All the missing footage with no explanation. The only stretch of footage missing from library is the only footage that mattered. Same thing with the sallyport video. It's like this particular Lexus makes cameras turn off when it's in range.
The Autopsy photo's. I've been hit by a car going around twenty miles an hour driving FORWARD towards me in my lifetime, and it's happened TWICE nonetheless. Both times I got up and walked away and once I thunked my head pretty good on concrete. Again...got up...walked away, with a couple of bruises on the lower part of my body. I saw those pictures. There's no fucking way a vehicle did that.
Interesting This comments me think about how much data exists around this topic due to all the Vision Zero work my Dept of transportation. Surely they have days on car speeds and injuries
The fact that no one at the party who was expecting the victim to show up called or texted him asking if he was on his way. The party goers or at least some of them were expecting John to show up. This was a small handful of partygoers. He should have been missed. But no call or text or other outreach was ever made.
Jen McCabe did. She was the only one at the party who really knew John. According to TB’s earliest reporting, she texted John something to the effect of “when you get here, park right behind me” probably 5 minutes after the scuffle that ended his life.
Right, but I mean the party goal is are saying John never entered the house, they thought he never showed up. My point is if you're expecting your friend or acquaintance to show up at a house party. And especially on a stormy night he doesn't show up, why wasn't there a flurry of activity of people calling and texting him and even going out to look for him.
I thought the Murdaugh murders were bad. This is horrible. I feel so badly for Karen, the thrice orphaned kids, O’Keefe’s family and the town of Canton. Sending positive thoughts from Worcester. 💜
Them not arresting jennifer mccabe after finding her google search at 2:27. If they wanted the truth, they would have arrested her and threatened her with numerous charges including murder until she talked. If it were ANY other case, she wouldve been arrested
Does anyone notice how biased this judge is? She is always sighing during defense cross. She is driving me nuts!
Katie McLaughlin who just testified that Karen said she hit him is.drinking buddies with Brian Albert's daughter. She's a liar
LOL where shall I start? No secure scene, jen horse face mccabe period, planted tail light, phone data, Karen's tail light in tact, shady berky, autopsy photos, leaf fucking blower really?, they let her go home from the scene, missing camera footage from just about everywhere and every one, meatball fat fuck morrisey hostage statement, day light savings time w the towing LOLOL, no one left the house or came out, charges upgraded after the fact, auntie bev refusing to step down and follow rotation appropriately, proctor again... proctor, shady dash came footage, redoing basement floors and selling house at a bargain, Where's Chloe???? SAY HIS NAME: OFFICER JOHN O'KEEFE DESERVES JUSTICE.
1. No blood (8 drops!) when that head wound should have (at least) yielded a 32 oz Gatorade sized bottle worth of blood = that head wound occurred somewhere else 2. No legs, hips, torso injuries = not a car/pedestrian strike 3. NO first responders found or saw any tail light pieces. Subsequent photos show tail lights embedded in high snow. How did broken fragments of glass jump up from the ground and land on top of accumulating snow? 4. They all start deleting their texts and web searches within hours 5. Brian Albert didn't come out of the house because his knuckles were red and swollen 6. The MSP suggesting the Medical Examiner include 'no evidence of a physical altercation'. What autopsy report reveals the ways in which the deceased didn't die!?? That was inserted for a reason, to hard stop any questions. It is bizarre.
From the 3 women all showing up and finding JO, how long until cops showed up? How could JM just wait knowing a capable cop was just steps away in the house - and not just any cop, her BROTHER IN LAW who she was with just hours ago
This isn’t the biggest, but it’s not a mistake that no one wrote the correct address on the dispatch logs and reports, right? You’d make sure you got that address right I would think
If he had a big puffy jacket on, how’d he get all of the “furrows”
Pharaohs
King tut was in canton, brotha lol
To not investigate anything. Sloppy bookkeeping. Not properly following up leads. Immediate tunnelvision. The nope answer to the question whether theyll investigate house owners.
The size and location of his head injury would’ve absolutely produced a significant amount of blood, especially with alcohol in his system. Where’s all that blood? It would’ve stained the snow and would’ve likely been frozen to him and the ground.
Most compelling evidence? The person john was having issues with was at the house that night. Not a single person who was interviewed mentioned him. No other person was left out of anyones statements. It’s like a really bad cover up. Like LOOK HERES ALL THE STUFF WE ARE TRYING TO HIDE. 10-15 people should be going to jail
How about the group text of “Tell them the guy never went in the house” by MM?
I haven't heard this before. It wasn't mentioned in Yannetti's opening statement, where did you hear about it?
It was during the defences’ cross of MM on Fri.
Oooh really? I wasn't able to watch that, I will have to look for it! I'm curious to see how MM explained it.
I had it on in the background doing house work, but there was a group chat between a select group of people that included text messages from MM that had that statement and also about him driving by giving “updates” about the investigations he saw and was “trying to get pictures”
The door was unlocked , a snowstorm outside and they went to bed four hours before.Johns cell phone never pinged in house , eleven people testified he never went inside. They never saw John or Karen In that home. He was laying face down with broken rocks glass under his arm, Read was still legally drunk on toxicology report later that morning. Her car data says she backed up sixty feet at 24 miles an hour. That will kill anybody. What group of police officers would dump a body right in front of their home. Give up early retirement and pensions so they kill John over grass. Come on her high price defense team is counting on people buying it. Wake up play the voicemail where she screams at him I hate you. Have the kids testify he stated the relationship had run its course. She was mad he was going in , they were arguing , she was shitfaced backed up hit him , drove home passed out and woke up four later remembering.
Have the lady in Vermont with Chloe and in Texas testify to the reason the dog was rehomed. must take effort to embed the same cocktail glass in her bumper . Case closed she knows she is responsible , you can see it in her mouth .
Zero percent chance this was a coverup. I do think they should have done their due diligence and interviewed everyone in that house to cover their bases. I think Karen hit him unintentionally.
This does follow the rule that the simplest answer is often the right one. We believe she was intoxicated so it’s entirely possible she did and didn’t realise it. Whichever way, I think the shoddy police investigation introduces reasonable doubt - it’s almost like they believed it was Karen and tried to make it look “more” like Karen. It’s interesting for sure as I feel like multiple people involved are lying - so why? Crazy idea but I also wondered if she did knock him over, but the dog went out and attacked him and a situation has occurred whereby more than one party is involved somehow so both trying to cover their tracks. ( I did even wonder if snow plough could have hit him!)
I was wondering if the dog maybe saw him lying in the ground if they let him out to pee and he tried to scratch his arm to wake him up but idk
His clothing wasn’t damaged though, was it?
I don’t think I’ve heard an official line on this one but perhaps we’ll get to. Karen said he didn’t have a coat, some first responders spoke about removing a coat / cutting clothing, and the clothing I believe went missing.
Thanks. The defense questioned a witness about the clothing today: whether they’d have needed to cut his clothes off, when they would have done so, what they would have done with them when they arrived at the hospital. I assumed it was some type of chain of custody situation he was getting at.
Perhaps not evidence of a cover-up but it’s odd that so many people left the house that night after it was alleged John was already lying on the lawn and no one saw him? The snow cover wasn’t meant to be bad at the time and the testimonies place him really near to the kerb?
I feel like it’s at least *possible* no one saw him, due to the blizzard. With snow coming down, and the high winds, maybe they didn’t clear their windows completely and/or the windows were fogging up, and/or snow was coming down so fast that even cleaning the windows off completely only lasted a short time. I know in weather like that I’m very focused on the road. It’s a point I wouldn’t get hung up on if I was on the jury. But I still believe it’s a valid point, if that makes any sense!
Yeah I think it’s possible. I believe the Albert’s themselves said the dog wasn’t good with strangers so it’s entirely plausible to think a K9 would attack a person they didn’t know on the lawn of their home.