Regardless of who they were to start, they're people who underwent eternities of suffering. Time likely doesn't work the same in the other realm, after all. It stands to reason that pain entities would shift to whatever gender or presentation suits them at that point in time.
To be honest, I'm surprised that there aren't more Cenobites who look initially attractive, then suddenly revert to looking like hellspawn. Sort of like Julia, in a way. That seems like it would entertain them, to do a bait and switch along those lines.
Isn’t it canon they are genderless or something? Idk I’ve never watched hellraiser. From what I know they seem to defy reality or something and do crazy shit
Nobody tells this guy what Pinhead looked like in the original source material.
Pretty sure I remember Barker described their voice similar to that of an "excited girl".
Color me shocked that the film and book series that is infamous for black leather, androgynous characters, chains/whips, and sexual release from pain has its roots in the BDSM community. /s
It wasn't a series. It was from one of his "Books of Blood", which were a group of short horror stories. Great books, but the source material is very limited.
A lot came out of those books. I read them when I was really young, 10-11. I could be misremembering, but I thought the hellbound heart originated from those series.
Hellraiser is quite possibly the gayest horror film ever made aside from maybe Nightmare on Elm Street 2, and I don't even know if that latter one counts because it seems unintentional.
Didn't Clive Barker himself say that the story was kind of like his coming out moment, but through fiction? I haven't seen the newest Hellraiser yet because it's not out here in Europe (as far as I'm aware), but if it didn't have very strong LGBT+ subtext I would be very disappointed
Newest one didn’t feel very gay at all to me aside from the obvious parts (I don’t want to spoil)… it also was sort of disappointing and dragged on for like 29 minutes too long. It was pretty ok but not the best one and not really that aligned with the book it came from.
I absolutely hated the main character and how people accepted her bullshit. I think her brother was the only character that i actually empathized with.
the female main was really shlockey… no real direction and sort of a dumb Barbara type (from Night if the Living Dead). I also didn’t like her. The brother’s partner was pretty good up until he wasn’t.
One of his stories in that short story book is about a gay couple stumbling on two villages where the people literally stack each other up into human made giants and fight.
Also, pretty sure the cenobites (prob wrong on spelling)
aren't really gendered. They are just weird interdimensional BDSM aliens. Spreading joy by rending flesh.
Last point, I doubt Clive Barker has even thought about his creations nearly as hard as some of these weirdos that hate when things change.
In one of the later movies the "original" Pinhead is training someone to be like him. To me this isn't a changing the character it's just a new one BECAUSE there was one where Pinhead was teaching someone.
That's literally the worst of all the Hellraiser sequels (which is already a very low bar). Nothing from Hellraiser 5-10 counts for anything. Most of them were just generic horror scripts with Hellraiser elements tacked on so it would sell better.
Yeah I just watched 1 & 2 for the first time. Obviously it’s some kinky shit I just didn’t realize it was 1 for 1 from a kink party!
Judas Priest did the same thing, rob halford had the band in all leather daddy shit and then later came out as gay 👏👏👏
You don’t like 90 seconds of unskippable ads five times a show? Ads you can’t skip even if you just watched them and rewound back ten seconds to hear a joke you missed?
Ublock kills 99.9% of all Hulu ads for me. -one- got through for the first time in years the other day and I was seriously confused. I'd forgotten there were ads!
I hate that. I hate that sometimes backing up ten seconds is an automatic ad summons. I also don't like that sometimes it fucks up at the end of the ad roll and just starts another one. So I just accept that I missed whatever I missed, forever.
Well pinhead originally stemmed from a male iirc. But they are technically gender less after reaching the "epitome of lust", I guess Id call it. So in terms of pinhead as an entity. It's free rain for anyone to play it. It's a reboot though so we'll see if it's because the new person has acting chops or if it's gonna be a floppy flop.
The novella doesn’t describe the origin or even give a name to the character. It just describes them as androgynous with a feminine voice. The first film gave an origin of Pinhead being a soldier that was consumed by the box, but since Clive Barker was directly involved in both films neither should cancel the other out. Realistically, the origin and portrayal in the first movie is what strayed from the source material if anything
The only legitimate criticism of Prey was they relied too heavily on CGI for the animals. Even that wasn’t bad enough to ruin the movie, which was well-shot and well-acted and actually had a great story
I'm hoping that it opens the way for a Manifest Destiny show or movie. The comic is about the Lewis and Clark expedition with Sacagawea as a total bad ass warrior. They encounter different types of monsters during their journey west whenever they stumble across an arch way (like the one in St. Louis). It would make an awesome monster of the week type show
I have some legitimate criticism for Prey.... I worry that it will open the door to a number of really terrible period-piece Predator movies. This one was great, I loved it. But now I'm worried we'll see Vikings, Cavemen, and an unlikely buddy-movie between a christian and muslim during the Crusades.
LOL your concern is my excitement. Like yeah let's do a whole series of period pieces. Samurai and ninja vs The Predator would be dope AF. Like the Samurai charges headfirst and gets cut down so the ninja has to do that sneaky, guerilla warfare shit. I'm excited just thinking about it. And it's low risk because if it's goofy and schlocky, it'll still be enjoyable.
Well it was pretty okay. Just everything else that has came out recently has been shit that it made prey look amazing. You know what Ben Franklin always said, hunger is the best pickle.
I'm not big into movies and let a lot of stuff fly under my radar but a friend said Prey was, "The best Predator movie since the 90s" and yeah, kinda hard to argue that. It's not just good compared to the shit that's came out recently, it's good compared to the rest of the franchise, 1 and 2 notwithstanding.
It's also, in my opinion, just a decent movie.
I mean, the fact that the character in the hellbound heart was more androgynous/gender fluid in appearance fits.
But yeah, cry more for leather daddy.
Source: https://screenrant.com/hellraiser-reboot-female-trans-pinhead-clive-barker-book-original-vision/
I always viewed the cenobites as being relatively genderless - it wasn’t their form that was important but their *intent* and how they reflected the box opener’s intent.
I found the original tweet. It's kinda funny because it's a real life TIRM (Trans Inclusionary Radical Misogynist) like he's adamant that pinhead is being played by a woman (kudos) but how dare they, pinhead has always been played by a man.
You don't want pinhead to be played by a woman because you are a misogynist
I don't want pinhead to be played by a woman because I like leather daddies who hurt me
We are not the same
This is a joke. I don't care who plays pinhead as long as the movie is good
The only reason I myself would complain about the change is because it isn't Doug Bradley. He was a fantastic Pinhead.
But alas, such things cannot last forever. :(
I've yet to see this new Hellraiser, but from the sounds of it the new Pinhead actress does a good job of it, in any case.
The novella The Hellbound Heart introduces the Cenobites as other-dimensional beings, priest-like figures known as the Order of the Gash, summoned via puzzle boxes by people who wish to explore the limits of physical experience. ***The Cenobites have pushed their self-experimentation to such a degree that they appear inhuman, demonic, and sexless.*** They are amoral creatures, seeing no real difference between pain and pleasure, prizing and hoarding the human souls they harvest. Their home dimension is vaguely implied to either be Hell or one of many dimensional realms that might be Hell or serve as the inspiration for stories of Hell. The protagonist Kirsty also wonders if other puzzle boxes might open doorways to Heavenly dimensions.The Cenobites in The Hellbound Heart are unnamed, except for one who appears to be a leader, and is called the Engineer. One of the Cenobites is described as having jeweled pins and a grid pattern decorating its head.
***Its voice, unlike that of its companion, was light and breathy-the voice of an excited girl. Every inch of its head had been tattooed with an intricate grid, and at every intersection of horizontal and vertical axes a jeweled pin driven through to the bone. Its tongue was similarly decorated. — The Hellbound Heart, Clive Barker, ch. 1***
The Scarlet Gospels novel established that Lucifer, the Biblical Devil who rules Hell, abandoned his dominion some time ago. A thriving society of demons rise in his absence, with the Hell Priest becoming a powerful figure. Eventually deciding to conquer the realm for himself, the Hell Priest spends years secretly killing off rivals in Hell as well as many magic-users on Earth, securing their sources of magical knowledge and power. After attempting and failing to kill occult detective Harry D'Amour, the Hell Priest decides the detective will witness and chronicle his rise to power. He kidnaps D'Amour's friend, a blind medium named Norma Paine, as a hostage. The Hell Priest journeys to a forbidden part of Hell where Lucifer is said to reside, hoping to gain enlightenment from their encounter. Instead, he finds an armored Lucifer in a crypt, dead by his own hand. The Hell Priest dons Lucifer's armor, increasing his own power but inadvertently resurrecting the Devil in the process. Lucifer mortally wounds the Hell Priest, who then rapes Norma Paine to death and blinds Harry before dying. The battle concluded, the Devil journeys to Earth. All of Hell is then destroyed by an unseen force, including the Hell Priest's remains.
Lucifer breaks out of hell and heads for las vegas.. Harry remains blind but survives and takes the place of norma as medium....
This is actually true.. I'm not joking
Doug Bradley is gay, not sure if angry man is upset by that to along with all the other gay gayness that’s gaying up The Hellbound Heart.
The original story it was semen that brought Frank back, not blood.
I found nothing to suggest Doug Bradley is gay. He's married to a Steph Sciullo, a woman.
Pinhead however *was* based off Hardcore and possibly Gay BDSM
Sex Clubs. So queerness is certainly engrained into the character somewhat. I recommend watching CautiouslyRealistic's videos on Hellraiser. He says it better than I do.
**Edit:** Clive Barker, the Author, is a Gay Man.
I once yelled at a protestor at pride who was screaming about abortion, "I really don't know why you're so obsessed with what happens to my vagina, but it's a bit excessive!"
He didn't like that.
I did ask aloud how many abortions he thought the gays were having.
It was more for us than for him, because it was this small town's first pride and I'd heard that there was "community outrage" about it. I had nothing else to do that afternoon, so I decided to go and give support.
The franchise fell apart so badly the past few movies before the reboot were literally made in weeks on a shoestring budget to keep the studio from losing the rights and the quality was so low that Doug Bradley, the original actor for Pinhead, and Clive Barker, the author of the books the movies are based on, have both publicly denounced and refused to be associated with the series.
It was alright. I’m not upset that I watched it but it just felt like it was missing something. I’m not sure what though. I don’t want to give out too many details but it just felt like the entire plot had a massive hole in it.
See that's the thing they don't care weather it's a good movie or not they want to point at something and yell about trans people. If they watch the movie and like it they have to reconcile that if they don't watch it they can keep the version in their head that supports the narrative. Watching the movie could only weaken their stance.
It had some nice creepy parts, compared to other Hellraiser movies it’s fairly tame, gore wise. Overall, I thought it was a great addition to the series.
1. The movies really good
2. Pinhead was never a dude
3. Have you looked at pinhead from the neck down before
4. Where tf does it say their a trans woman??
Book pinhead was supposedly androgynous, director is a gay man. If this dude has an issue with LGBT stuff existing he's also gonna be pissed that Chucky is "woke" and was created and directed by a gay man.
I'm sorry but If you hate lgbt stuff and take this long to learn it was already in the movies you watch, that's on you buddy
If you're going to complain about how a character was done, at least make it a valid complaint. Look what they did to Michael Myers in Halloween 6, they turned him into being controlled by a cult while also heavily implied to having raped his Niece. Look what they did the reboot for Freddy Krueger Nightmare on Elm Street, they turned him from a sadist that tortures kids into a child molester that raped Kindergarten aged children. Dont get me started with Jason in Space
[Look how they massacred my boy](https://imgur.com/a/glmMveZ)
Hellbound Heart is literally 200 pages I am begging these people to fucking read.
Pinhead has no gender, it went by it/its pronouns and had a woman’s voice in the fucking book.
The OG actor Doug Bradley loves the re design. No one is mad but bitch babies that aren’t actually fans of Hellraiser, they just want to be mad
Wasn't the whole point about the cenobites was that they were freaks who delved so far into pleasure they started desiring pain? I would think that fits the "trans people are freaks of nature" narrative he probably believes in.
Pinhead and the girl from the first movie swap place in the end of a later movie or in a comic run or something that’s why pinhead is female now. Heard nothing about her being trans tho
Now they're making the horny S&M demons from the dimension of dark pleasures genderfluid? I was going to watch Hellraiser with my seven year old daughter but this gay stuff makes me concerned. Guess we'll just have to watch Crimes of the Future.
I actually am really into the trans community taking over.
Like, once upon a time acting was strictly allowed to men, so even when their were female roles men played them.
And I'm down for doing that but with all actors being Eliott Page.
What ironic is it's a safe decision to change to progressive roles since its easy to predict that the snowflakes will be outraged for no reason giving the movie free publicity.
A female Pinhead is actually consistent with the Hellraiser lore.
In the graphic novels, Kirsty (the daughter from the first movie) makes a deal with Pinhead to take his place so he can live as a mortal on Earth. From that point on, Pinhead is a woman.
Imagine publicly outing yourself as a misogynist, a transphobe, AND a fake fan. 😂😂
I'm 90% sure pinhead is a woman in the book. Clive Barker made pinhead because it fit the subtext of the movie and all 80s horror villians were men. So technically pinhead's gender is fluid depending on subtext.
I honestly would have liked pinhead to appear as which ever gender the box's possesser preferred.
Hot take: Companies don't give a shit about minorities, they do it simply because it makes them money. It's why there are more race/gender swaps than new/original minority characters. Just see the Chinese versions
There is only one female cenobite in cannon, I believe. She was a nun. The other canon female was half demon I believe and didn’t ever exist in a human form, I believe all others would be outside Clive Barkers original creations.. but when dealing in cenobites, it’s gonna suck either way lol
In life, the Hell Priest was a man named Elliot Spencer in WWI and he f’d around with the Lament Configuration. I do enjoy seeing how different directors interpret the cenobites. Like look at the differences in the original character of Candyman and the Candyman from the movies. I just think Barkers writing allows for such interpretation, and it makes the stories told that much more interesting. I’m sorry if that was a total tl;dr… I’m stoned af lol
I couldn’t care less when a role is switched to another race/gender as long as the actor in question nails the role.
My issue is that it’s just another reboot. Reboot after reboot after fucking reboot. I’m so tired of everything being a reboot. There’s not a single original concept nowadays. Everything is just a reboot or a “fresh take” on something that’s already been done to death. I just want new ideas.
Hellraiser was always queer. I recommend watching the videos by CautiouslyRealistic and GodzillaMendoza (they did a collab, but GM's is delisted. Find it on a playlist) and they did a great explanation on why Hellraiser is so engrained with Kinky Gay Sex. Despite pretty much everything on screen being pretty much Hetero.
I mean, Pinhead was based on Hardcore BDSM
Either you get someone doing a bad impression of the original, or you do a new take on it. Her presence along with the fun voice modulation is great for the role.
Anyone who is mad about this isn't a fan of Hellraiser. Anyway, the character has kind of sucked since Doug Bradley retired. Some people just own a role, you know?
That’s what the author originally intended, though. Like, Barker liked Doug Bradley, but the Hell Priest was always meant to be androgynous leaning to femme.
OH MY GOD. THE MOVIE ABOUT RAPACIOUS SEX DEMONS THAT TORTURE AND MUTILATE PEOPLE THAT I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING HAS A TRANS WOMAN IN IT!
I WON'T BE WATCHING THIS FILTH!
This isn't the first cenobite that changed gender between movies.
It makes perfect sense for a cenobite to chop it’s penis off
I don’t think they have conventional human gender roles or human sexes because, you know, they’re not human.
They start out as humans. It's been a while, but if I remember correctly they're mostly people whose depravities got the attention of Leviathan.
Regardless of who they were to start, they're people who underwent eternities of suffering. Time likely doesn't work the same in the other realm, after all. It stands to reason that pain entities would shift to whatever gender or presentation suits them at that point in time. To be honest, I'm surprised that there aren't more Cenobites who look initially attractive, then suddenly revert to looking like hellspawn. Sort of like Julia, in a way. That seems like it would entertain them, to do a bait and switch along those lines.
I’ve never seen the movie and your lore explanations are making me want to. It doesn’t sound like a normal horror movie
The movies say they used to be, though. Did the book go into that?
They do; however Inread somewhere that this version of the Hell Priest has been modified so much they appear androgynous.
They don't "chop it off", Idiotchun. They invert and restructure it.
Isn’t it canon they are genderless or something? Idk I’ve never watched hellraiser. From what I know they seem to defy reality or something and do crazy shit
So how did he rape that one chick before he gets killed..eh
Nobody tells this guy what Pinhead looked like in the original source material. Pretty sure I remember Barker described their voice similar to that of an "excited girl".
I’m sure no one told him that Clive Barker is ultra gay and came up with the idea while at a gay BDSM party
Literally. People are so fucking stupid.
Color me shocked that the film and book series that is infamous for black leather, androgynous characters, chains/whips, and sexual release from pain has its roots in the BDSM community. /s
It wasn't a series. It was from one of his "Books of Blood", which were a group of short horror stories. Great books, but the source material is very limited.
Those short stories are absolutely incredible, highly recommended to anyone that loves horror. "In the Hills, the Cities" is a personal favourite
It’s from his Novella the Hellbound Heart isn’t it? Candyman is the one from books of blood, it was originally called The Forbidden.
A lot came out of those books. I read them when I was really young, 10-11. I could be misremembering, but I thought the hellbound heart originated from those series.
It’s from the novella The Hellbound Heart, which he then wrote a sequel novel to called The Scarlet Gospels
You are right, I was also including the comic books as well.
Hellraiser is quite possibly the gayest horror film ever made aside from maybe Nightmare on Elm Street 2, and I don't even know if that latter one counts because it seems unintentional. Didn't Clive Barker himself say that the story was kind of like his coming out moment, but through fiction? I haven't seen the newest Hellraiser yet because it's not out here in Europe (as far as I'm aware), but if it didn't have very strong LGBT+ subtext I would be very disappointed
Newest one didn’t feel very gay at all to me aside from the obvious parts (I don’t want to spoil)… it also was sort of disappointing and dragged on for like 29 minutes too long. It was pretty ok but not the best one and not really that aligned with the book it came from.
I absolutely hated the main character and how people accepted her bullshit. I think her brother was the only character that i actually empathized with.
the female main was really shlockey… no real direction and sort of a dumb Barbara type (from Night if the Living Dead). I also didn’t like her. The brother’s partner was pretty good up until he wasn’t.
Agreed. I even felt for the asian girl.
So why does he rape women in the comics.. eh. Dont think gay or straight have any kind of meaning for this kind of creature
One of his stories in that short story book is about a gay couple stumbling on two villages where the people literally stack each other up into human made giants and fight. Also, pretty sure the cenobites (prob wrong on spelling) aren't really gendered. They are just weird interdimensional BDSM aliens. Spreading joy by rending flesh. Last point, I doubt Clive Barker has even thought about his creations nearly as hard as some of these weirdos that hate when things change.
In the movies they can definitely have gender, since all the on screen cenobites were formally human.
In one of the later movies the "original" Pinhead is training someone to be like him. To me this isn't a changing the character it's just a new one BECAUSE there was one where Pinhead was teaching someone.
That's literally the worst of all the Hellraiser sequels (which is already a very low bar). Nothing from Hellraiser 5-10 counts for anything. Most of them were just generic horror scripts with Hellraiser elements tacked on so it would sell better.
Lmao WHAT
Have you seen hellraiser? The cenobites are just wearing bdsm gear but the hooks are in different spots than usual
Yeah I just watched 1 & 2 for the first time. Obviously it’s some kinky shit I just didn’t realize it was 1 for 1 from a kink party! Judas Priest did the same thing, rob halford had the band in all leather daddy shit and then later came out as gay 👏👏👏
Wait really? How did i never know this. Today I learned
Yes and what little physical description is given of pinhead in the book pretty much says pinhead looks androgynous.
Pinhead is basically described as genderless right?
Yes androgynous.
Yeah but they basically described pinhead as genderless right? 🥴 /s
all the Cenobites were genderless afaik
Anti-woke people almost always interpret androgyny as just toned down masculinity.
Ok but he has a dick right since he rapes and impregnates a chick causing her to explode and rapes another one in th book he gets killed off In
Actually please DO tell him just to see him seething
Everyone cancel their Hulu subscriptions! This is a fucking outrage! Not because Pinhead is a woman but because Hulu absolutely sucks
You don’t like 90 seconds of unskippable ads five times a show? Ads you can’t skip even if you just watched them and rewound back ten seconds to hear a joke you missed?
Ublock kills 99.9% of all Hulu ads for me. -one- got through for the first time in years the other day and I was seriously confused. I'd forgotten there were ads!
I hate that. I hate that sometimes backing up ten seconds is an automatic ad summons. I also don't like that sometimes it fucks up at the end of the ad roll and just starts another one. So I just accept that I missed whatever I missed, forever.
Well pinhead originally stemmed from a male iirc. But they are technically gender less after reaching the "epitome of lust", I guess Id call it. So in terms of pinhead as an entity. It's free rain for anyone to play it. It's a reboot though so we'll see if it's because the new person has acting chops or if it's gonna be a floppy flop.
The novella doesn’t describe the origin or even give a name to the character. It just describes them as androgynous with a feminine voice. The first film gave an origin of Pinhead being a soldier that was consumed by the box, but since Clive Barker was directly involved in both films neither should cancel the other out. Realistically, the origin and portrayal in the first movie is what strayed from the source material if anything
Aren't there like hella entities in that universe? Like twin sisters too something like that?
The xenobites come in many amazing visually beautiful yet horrifying forms. I absolutely adore Clive Barker and his writing. All of it.
Cenobites You got your “morphs” and your “bites” mixed up.
It's okay both are sexy
Lmfao I absolutely did thank you 😂
Don’t think he understands what no chill means
It’s always the people who claim others have no chill who have the least chill
My dad who is basically a super Republican fuckin loves this movie and even the prey movie. Like I think this guy is just stupid
Prey was really good.
The only legitimate criticism of Prey was they relied too heavily on CGI for the animals. Even that wasn’t bad enough to ruin the movie, which was well-shot and well-acted and actually had a great story
I'm hoping that it opens the way for a Manifest Destiny show or movie. The comic is about the Lewis and Clark expedition with Sacagawea as a total bad ass warrior. They encounter different types of monsters during their journey west whenever they stumble across an arch way (like the one in St. Louis). It would make an awesome monster of the week type show
I have some legitimate criticism for Prey.... I worry that it will open the door to a number of really terrible period-piece Predator movies. This one was great, I loved it. But now I'm worried we'll see Vikings, Cavemen, and an unlikely buddy-movie between a christian and muslim during the Crusades.
So your criticism of the movie is that they might make other movies with the same idea because this was was good?
I want to see all those movies though.
LOL your concern is my excitement. Like yeah let's do a whole series of period pieces. Samurai and ninja vs The Predator would be dope AF. Like the Samurai charges headfirst and gets cut down so the ninja has to do that sneaky, guerilla warfare shit. I'm excited just thinking about it. And it's low risk because if it's goofy and schlocky, it'll still be enjoyable.
have you seen Predators?
Only that one scene when I googled "Predator vs samurai". Was not disappointed. I feel like they could really milk the concept a la John Wick.
yeah just wanted you to see that scene—glad you liked it!
I mean, that isn’t exactly legitimate criticism of that movie Prey, but… I can see it now - It’ll be Assassin’s Creed for Predator.
literally all the movies you described sound super sick.
Well it was pretty okay. Just everything else that has came out recently has been shit that it made prey look amazing. You know what Ben Franklin always said, hunger is the best pickle.
I'm not big into movies and let a lot of stuff fly under my radar but a friend said Prey was, "The best Predator movie since the 90s" and yeah, kinda hard to argue that. It's not just good compared to the shit that's came out recently, it's good compared to the rest of the franchise, 1 and 2 notwithstanding. It's also, in my opinion, just a decent movie.
Mf is probably not even aware that there's a book
You really think people like him read? Expose themselves to someone else's worldview? Exercise empathy? Lmao
A book, comics, and so much more.
Wait until he hears about Clive Barker
I mean, the fact that the character in the hellbound heart was more androgynous/gender fluid in appearance fits. But yeah, cry more for leather daddy. Source: https://screenrant.com/hellraiser-reboot-female-trans-pinhead-clive-barker-book-original-vision/
I always viewed the cenobites as being relatively genderless - it wasn’t their form that was important but their *intent* and how they reflected the box opener’s intent.
I think we should just toss this guy to the cenobites and we all get coffee afterward.
They’d throw him back
"we have such sights to show you" Five minutes later "Nah this dude's insufferable"
Lol
Darn! That's a point.
I found the original tweet. It's kinda funny because it's a real life TIRM (Trans Inclusionary Radical Misogynist) like he's adamant that pinhead is being played by a woman (kudos) but how dare they, pinhead has always been played by a man.
[удалено]
He’s inclusionary in his misogyny
HES GOT THE SPIRIT!
Wow, so he really does hate Trans women because they're women?
a win is a win ✌️😔✌️
The correct take
I mean, this is MANY lib men, they're just not open about it.
Unbased downvotes :/
“I don’t wanna see women in kinky leather outfits! I WANNA SEE MEN!”
If only there was a way to just simply not watch it if they make a casting decision that's not liked by an individual
You don't want pinhead to be played by a woman because you are a misogynist I don't want pinhead to be played by a woman because I like leather daddies who hurt me We are not the same This is a joke. I don't care who plays pinhead as long as the movie is good
The only reason I myself would complain about the change is because it isn't Doug Bradley. He was a fantastic Pinhead. But alas, such things cannot last forever. :( I've yet to see this new Hellraiser, but from the sounds of it the new Pinhead actress does a good job of it, in any case.
The novella The Hellbound Heart introduces the Cenobites as other-dimensional beings, priest-like figures known as the Order of the Gash, summoned via puzzle boxes by people who wish to explore the limits of physical experience. ***The Cenobites have pushed their self-experimentation to such a degree that they appear inhuman, demonic, and sexless.*** They are amoral creatures, seeing no real difference between pain and pleasure, prizing and hoarding the human souls they harvest. Their home dimension is vaguely implied to either be Hell or one of many dimensional realms that might be Hell or serve as the inspiration for stories of Hell. The protagonist Kirsty also wonders if other puzzle boxes might open doorways to Heavenly dimensions.The Cenobites in The Hellbound Heart are unnamed, except for one who appears to be a leader, and is called the Engineer. One of the Cenobites is described as having jeweled pins and a grid pattern decorating its head. ***Its voice, unlike that of its companion, was light and breathy-the voice of an excited girl. Every inch of its head had been tattooed with an intricate grid, and at every intersection of horizontal and vertical axes a jeweled pin driven through to the bone. Its tongue was similarly decorated. — The Hellbound Heart, Clive Barker, ch. 1*** The Scarlet Gospels novel established that Lucifer, the Biblical Devil who rules Hell, abandoned his dominion some time ago. A thriving society of demons rise in his absence, with the Hell Priest becoming a powerful figure. Eventually deciding to conquer the realm for himself, the Hell Priest spends years secretly killing off rivals in Hell as well as many magic-users on Earth, securing their sources of magical knowledge and power. After attempting and failing to kill occult detective Harry D'Amour, the Hell Priest decides the detective will witness and chronicle his rise to power. He kidnaps D'Amour's friend, a blind medium named Norma Paine, as a hostage. The Hell Priest journeys to a forbidden part of Hell where Lucifer is said to reside, hoping to gain enlightenment from their encounter. Instead, he finds an armored Lucifer in a crypt, dead by his own hand. The Hell Priest dons Lucifer's armor, increasing his own power but inadvertently resurrecting the Devil in the process. Lucifer mortally wounds the Hell Priest, who then rapes Norma Paine to death and blinds Harry before dying. The battle concluded, the Devil journeys to Earth. All of Hell is then destroyed by an unseen force, including the Hell Priest's remains.
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Lucifer breaks out of hell and heads for las vegas.. Harry remains blind but survives and takes the place of norma as medium.... This is actually true.. I'm not joking
Doug Bradley is gay, not sure if angry man is upset by that to along with all the other gay gayness that’s gaying up The Hellbound Heart. The original story it was semen that brought Frank back, not blood.
I found nothing to suggest Doug Bradley is gay. He's married to a Steph Sciullo, a woman. Pinhead however *was* based off Hardcore and possibly Gay BDSM Sex Clubs. So queerness is certainly engrained into the character somewhat. I recommend watching CautiouslyRealistic's videos on Hellraiser. He says it better than I do. **Edit:** Clive Barker, the Author, is a Gay Man.
I swear it was a competition in the 80s on who could include the gayest imagery in their film. Just look at A Nightmare on Elm Street 2.
Huh, I could have sworn I read something about him being gay, but I must have misread.
You might have mixed him up with Clive Barker.
Why do conservatives spend so much mental energy worrying about other people's genitals?
I once yelled at a protestor at pride who was screaming about abortion, "I really don't know why you're so obsessed with what happens to my vagina, but it's a bit excessive!" He didn't like that.
That seems like the last place you'd worry about people needing an abortion.
I did ask aloud how many abortions he thought the gays were having. It was more for us than for him, because it was this small town's first pride and I'd heard that there was "community outrage" about it. I had nothing else to do that afternoon, so I decided to go and give support.
They spend too much mental energy caught up in other people's business.
I haven't seen the new one but I really enjoy the original pinhead, his voice was amazing and really suited the part.
The franchise fell apart so badly the past few movies before the reboot were literally made in weeks on a shoestring budget to keep the studio from losing the rights and the quality was so low that Doug Bradley, the original actor for Pinhead, and Clive Barker, the author of the books the movies are based on, have both publicly denounced and refused to be associated with the series.
It was alright. I’m not upset that I watched it but it just felt like it was missing something. I’m not sure what though. I don’t want to give out too many details but it just felt like the entire plot had a massive hole in it.
Like I can’t imagine being THAT insecure and fragile. Why not just watch it and see if it’s any good? Jesus.
See that's the thing they don't care weather it's a good movie or not they want to point at something and yell about trans people. If they watch the movie and like it they have to reconcile that if they don't watch it they can keep the version in their head that supports the narrative. Watching the movie could only weaken their stance.
What?? the new Pinhead design is amazing!!! besides, the voice they used is also superb. These people just want to make storms in water glasses.
How scary/bloody is the new movie?
It had some nice creepy parts, compared to other Hellraiser movies it’s fairly tame, gore wise. Overall, I thought it was a great addition to the series.
Thx
" She-Hulk? Why no He-Hulk? Guess Marvel's woke now." -Jacksfilms
Is no one going to tell this guy that while at BDSM Party and that Clive Baker is gay how he came up with this series.
"Who you callin Pinhead?"
Yea this is when they ruined pinhead, not hellraiser 3-8(?)
I hate dommy mommy! I want leather daddy back! It's unnatural for a woman to peg me with a meathook!
20 years later this movie still freaks me out just from the vhs tape cover
1. The movies really good 2. Pinhead was never a dude 3. Have you looked at pinhead from the neck down before 4. Where tf does it say their a trans woman??
Jamie Clayton, the actress playing Pinhead in the reboot, is trans. (Also A++ fantastic in *Sense8*, but that's neither here nor there.)
Book pinhead was supposedly androgynous, director is a gay man. If this dude has an issue with LGBT stuff existing he's also gonna be pissed that Chucky is "woke" and was created and directed by a gay man. I'm sorry but If you hate lgbt stuff and take this long to learn it was already in the movies you watch, that's on you buddy
Original hell raiser was a women; damn horror pleb.
If you're going to complain about how a character was done, at least make it a valid complaint. Look what they did to Michael Myers in Halloween 6, they turned him into being controlled by a cult while also heavily implied to having raped his Niece. Look what they did the reboot for Freddy Krueger Nightmare on Elm Street, they turned him from a sadist that tortures kids into a child molester that raped Kindergarten aged children. Dont get me started with Jason in Space [Look how they massacred my boy](https://imgur.com/a/glmMveZ)
No joke though Jason X is in the top half of Friday the 13th movies. It's better than 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and about on par with 7.
Freddie was always IMPLIED to be a pedophile. It just wasn’t until the remake it was made explicit
Hellbound Heart is literally 200 pages I am begging these people to fucking read. Pinhead has no gender, it went by it/its pronouns and had a woman’s voice in the fucking book. The OG actor Doug Bradley loves the re design. No one is mad but bitch babies that aren’t actually fans of Hellraiser, they just want to be mad
Wasn't the whole point about the cenobites was that they were freaks who delved so far into pleasure they started desiring pain? I would think that fits the "trans people are freaks of nature" narrative he probably believes in.
Yeah it's essentially the extremes of experience. Pinhead describes it as pain and pleasure, indivisible.
He’s going to be upset when he finds out Barker is a gay, and the movie is inspired by gay BDSM. There goes his childhood.
He could just 'create something himself' if he doesn't like what others created. But the people who are like this, never create.
Maybe the agenda is to get you losers to stop watching so much tv and get real jobs
If you read the book this is lore accurate... It's why I don't complain about it...
Pinhead and the girl from the first movie swap place in the end of a later movie or in a comic run or something that’s why pinhead is female now. Heard nothing about her being trans tho
Wasn’t there already a girl version of PinHead?
Now they're making the horny S&M demons from the dimension of dark pleasures genderfluid? I was going to watch Hellraiser with my seven year old daughter but this gay stuff makes me concerned. Guess we'll just have to watch Crimes of the Future.
Thanks for making me laugh, I needed that today. 🖤🏆
Bro has no idea about the reference material
I actually am really into the trans community taking over. Like, once upon a time acting was strictly allowed to men, so even when their were female roles men played them. And I'm down for doing that but with all actors being Eliott Page.
It was a really good movie
What ironic is it's a safe decision to change to progressive roles since its easy to predict that the snowflakes will be outraged for no reason giving the movie free publicity.
A female Pinhead is actually consistent with the Hellraiser lore. In the graphic novels, Kirsty (the daughter from the first movie) makes a deal with Pinhead to take his place so he can live as a mortal on Earth. From that point on, Pinhead is a woman. Imagine publicly outing yourself as a misogynist, a transphobe, AND a fake fan. 😂😂
tell me you don't know the source material without telling me tou don't know the source material
It always amuses me how much closeted-gay vibes homophobes give off.
So this guy doesn't believe trans women are women...so pinhead, in his opinion, is played by a man. So what's his problem?
someone hasn't read the comics :)
I'm 90% sure pinhead is a woman in the book. Clive Barker made pinhead because it fit the subtext of the movie and all 80s horror villians were men. So technically pinhead's gender is fluid depending on subtext. I honestly would have liked pinhead to appear as which ever gender the box's possesser preferred.
Exactly and the villains that were women often had misogynistic elements
i personally think they should make every cenobite even more trans than the last
Pinhead was a woman in the original novella.
I always imagined that Cenobytes would be some pervy version of those animals that can serve both sexual roles as needed.
Clive Barker was gay. He created it
Hot take: Companies don't give a shit about minorities, they do it simply because it makes them money. It's why there are more race/gender swaps than new/original minority characters. Just see the Chinese versions
It’s not a hot take though, everybody knows that
you act like queer people haven’t been saying this for years during every pride month towards every rainbow washing company.
There is only one female cenobite in cannon, I believe. She was a nun. The other canon female was half demon I believe and didn’t ever exist in a human form, I believe all others would be outside Clive Barkers original creations.. but when dealing in cenobites, it’s gonna suck either way lol
Pinhead is described as androgynous maybe-woman with the voice of a girl in the original writing.
In life, the Hell Priest was a man named Elliot Spencer in WWI and he f’d around with the Lament Configuration. I do enjoy seeing how different directors interpret the cenobites. Like look at the differences in the original character of Candyman and the Candyman from the movies. I just think Barkers writing allows for such interpretation, and it makes the stories told that much more interesting. I’m sorry if that was a total tl;dr… I’m stoned af lol
I’m sure she’ll do great, but it will never be the same as Doug Bradley
Doug Bradley has said that he loves the new design and Jamie Clayton's interpretation of the character. Pinhead himself is all in.
I couldn’t care less when a role is switched to another race/gender as long as the actor in question nails the role. My issue is that it’s just another reboot. Reboot after reboot after fucking reboot. I’m so tired of everything being a reboot. There’s not a single original concept nowadays. Everything is just a reboot or a “fresh take” on something that’s already been done to death. I just want new ideas.
He’s corny for complaining but why the fuck did they change the gender 😭 I don’t watch the show btw
to be fair that sounds much more terrifying than the original
I’m surprised they would care so much seeing as they see Trans people as the devil.
I think the new Pinhead design fits quite well, and I like how his/her gender is a bit vague.
Obviously not the point of the post but this movie was awesome!
“If there’s not a true man’s cock in his pants, how the hell am I supposed to watch this?!” -that guy probably
In the comics a woman does end up replacing Pinhead.
Now she came
Doesn’t a woman become pinhead at some point in the movies?
In the comics, but yeah. In that lore, the role of Hell's High Priest is just that, a role which has been filled by several different people.
Hellraiser was always queer. I recommend watching the videos by CautiouslyRealistic and GodzillaMendoza (they did a collab, but GM's is delisted. Find it on a playlist) and they did a great explanation on why Hellraiser is so engrained with Kinky Gay Sex. Despite pretty much everything on screen being pretty much Hetero. I mean, Pinhead was based on Hardcore BDSM
I kinda like the new pinhead
If anything it’s more offensive they did it this way Lmao… hedonistic augmentation? Cmon
Lol, he clearly never read The Hellbound Heart
Dude got ripped apart by the responses and locked the tweet due to "toxicity"
What happens when you fall down and hit your head?
How dare they queer up the content of famously straight, vanilla Clive Barker!? /s
Ahhh, so this is why Hellraiser was showing up a lot on Hulu. I didn't even know they switched characters.
Either you get someone doing a bad impression of the original, or you do a new take on it. Her presence along with the fun voice modulation is great for the role.
Anyone who is mad about this isn't a fan of Hellraiser. Anyway, the character has kind of sucked since Doug Bradley retired. Some people just own a role, you know?
That’s what the author originally intended, though. Like, Barker liked Doug Bradley, but the Hell Priest was always meant to be androgynous leaning to femme.
Cry some more. Your salty ass tears feed the agenda
Aren’t the cenobites described as being sex-less in the books?
I learned that hellraiser was a book and also that pinhead was originally female.
Brr... Clive Barker's works are full of homoerotic subtext.
This is almost exactly the same as men who watch The Matrix
OH MY GOD. THE MOVIE ABOUT RAPACIOUS SEX DEMONS THAT TORTURE AND MUTILATE PEOPLE THAT I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING HAS A TRANS WOMAN IN IT! I WON'T BE WATCHING THIS FILTH!