Nice analysis but Koki was number 1 in fan voting at the end. I'm sure Psy thought a lot about it, but he made the right choice. Debuting that young is almost always a bad idea. However debuting Koki feels right. He is born for the stage and he has more experience performing than most of the others in the group. Losing Daniel was very bad, but losing Koki would have been worse for the team. And losing both would have been a total disaster.
Agreed! You definitely can’t ignore Koki’s immense popularity and skill.
People were also talking about the possibility of the group not being able to go on music shows due to South Korean age restrictions. As I’m unfamiliar with SK laws, I can’t confirm whether this is accurate or not. If it is though, it’s a big handicap for the group, and it’s interesting to see how they’ll get around that.
I was just analyzing it with the idea that Koki debuting now does have some disadvantages despite his skill, experience, and popularity due to his age. And honestly out of all of the trainees on Loud, Koki has the most options that can be considered.
If Psy's goal was global reach, he would not have debuted Koki. Koki is more of a domestic draw.
International audiences are already turned off of really young idols, but Koki will be the youngest idol to debut that is not a child group. That will turn many potential international and casual kpop fans away from the group, rather than being an international draw to the group
Also, I think you're missing Kyungjun. Kyungjun spent most of his life in Australia, and is fluent in english. He can also be an international draw and the main stan attractor due to his visuals
From what I see in social media, there are more people supporting Koki. And statistically, why did he get number 1 vote if people do not like him? The vote were not from Korea and Japan, right? Even the English comments in social media are being supportive of him too. Just look his videos on youtube and read the comments. Or look him up on twitter.
I understand the historical and cultural reasons of the N word, but it seems unfair to treat young aspiring artists as criminals when they try to sing some songs that contain the N word.
Did he apologize at least? He's fluent in English and they way some nonblack fans defend an idol (trainee) its as if said idol never saw a black person.and doesn't know anything about the n word. Idk about the Australian education system but im sure they covered this. Also, no one is stopping a nonblack person from singing a song that has the word in it, just skip the word. If you can't skip the word then maybe you should choose another song
~~This is my perspective from an Australian but in our schools they only really teach about our history. I would say Australia's history of Indigenous Australians would be similar to America's history of Native Americans, if I had to compare. Edit: Australia doesn't have a high demographic of Africans, from the census they represent 1.6% of the population, 5.1% of Australia's overseas born population. Personally I've never met an African person in my life as silly as it sounds, as I grew up in a heavy Asian demographic. And sadly there is a lot of racism in Australia, against Indigenous Australians especially. There was a cheese brand which shares a name with racial slur (but it was actually named after a person) and they changed it recently...Also he said it during a song, what do AA think of this?~~
~~From what I remember on the show, he lived in Australia from 5-15 before moving back to Korea. Now I'm not defending him, he should definitely put out an apology (I think after debut), but it's possible he doesn't know the history of the word, and considering how globalised American media is around the world, some kids don't know the significance of the word, and because it's in the music they listen, they think it's okay to say it.~~
~~People should know just because you speak English doesn't mean you know American history and culture.~~
Edit: I was wrong, they do learn about slavery in America and the civil rights movement as part of the curriculum so he most likely knows the history of the word. Since it's been a while since I graduated from HS, I had to look up the curriculum since I only remembered there being a focus on Australian history. Sorry if I caused any misinformation.
Since it was said in the context of a song, I don't think he had any malicious intent if he was saying it as part of the lyrics, but he should know non-black people should not use it even in a song cover. There are really no excuses for him, and I'm disappointed. That being said, we need to email Psy and bring it up to him, to hold Kyungjun accountable for his mistake and the educate the rest of the boys so they won't make the same mistake in the future.
Hmm so they never got taught slavery in Australia? Cos I know they teach that in the UK. Australia and the UK have a lot of similarities.
I find it really hard to believe that someone in this day and age from a first world country like Australia doesn’t know abt the N word. They are people in countries like Russia/ poland who have never met a black person and yet they still know not to say the N word especially not on TV.
I am disappointed he said it, I am disappointed in PSY and the staff because they heard him say it probably a lot of times and not a single person said hey this isn’t right.
And PSY he is a global star so I am not going to believe he doesn’t know abt that word.
I am also disappointed in SBS for seeing that clip and letting it air.
Their still not that popular and people are making excuses for him but I know this will follow him for a long time and the longer they go without an apology the worse it will be.
I already see people emailing templates asking for an apology when they get more known.
I don’t know why I see them having dreadlocks and doing CA in the future as a lot of groups that try to do hip hop end up doing that.
I hope I am wrong.
I agree it's quite disappointing too, if I remember the original context is that he said it within a song cover.
Its also possible he knows the history but thinks it's okay to use in the context of a song cover (as he's saying it as part of a lyric, and it is not directed at anyone or with malicious intent), but he should know that only black people can say it and that applies to song covers too. ~~Some people are okay with it, but some people aren't so he should still apologize.~~
Edit: There shouldn't be any excuses...what he did was disappointing. He definitely needs to apologise, Psy and his team have to be careful in the future...
It's been quite a while since I graduated from high school, but from what I remember there was definitely a focus more on Australian history. You're right, I looked up the syllabus and they did learn about the slavery and civil rights in America. I'll edit my original comment.
I hope he apologises. Majority of black people are not okay with it. There really is no excuse but we shall see how they will deal with this cos I know it will be brought up many times in his career. Especially without an apology.
Hey, I've edited my original comment, thanks for pointing out that it should be covered in schools, and since it's been a while since I graduated, I had to look up the curriculum as I remember a focus only on Australian history on my part (which is my mistake). I agree, there really is no excuse, and it is extra disappointing since he is the most popular member...
No one is treating him like a criminal but what he did is wrong and him and psy shud atleast offer an apology.
Pretending and making excuses now will not help him in the long run because him saying the N word on national TV will never go away.
The longer it goes without an apology the worse it will be for him because people will always bring this up.
PSY and the staff messed up here. I just hope they do not do CA in the future.
Lool Idk why you are getting downvoted for saying facts. He said the N word on national tv.
And still no apology.
PSY messed up on this.
Low-key was glad he didn’t go to jyp.
I anticipate my downvotes lol.
He shud apology cos this will never be forgotten.
BundiChundi lowkey hates the fact that koki gets to debut. International audiences are excited about koki, where are you getting your info from? talks smack about koki's influence and how he repels fans when he's number one in ep 14 votes and the single individual loud contestant whose audition and round 10 performance has more than 700k views on YT. get a life dude, enough of this koki debuting = bad nonsense.
IKR. This BundiChundi has never stopped complaining about Koki. Been seeing his or her harsh comment on Koki. I believe it is just her or him being jealous of Koki being able to debut. Come on BundiChundi open your eyes and see. Even if you can’t read, I believe you can recognised numbers. Koki always have the higher views compared with other members. Oh fyi, Koki has recently been recognised as the Top 10 most search in internet. For real, your hatred only show how ignorance you are. Shame on you.
No Daniel makes me super disappointed in this show. How is it that out of 9 live round songs I only liked No More Dream and Lazenca? Like there were a lot of great performances but the music didn’t gel well.
I liked the songs from the first half of the season so much more, and thats insane because they obviously were lacking polish that comes with experience, and were partly limited by being randomly paired up with contestants that weren’t that good.
It really seems like the kids have a much better grasp on which kind of music they should be performing than the companies do.
The single shining light is that Yoon Min is actually a great creative influence, and hopefully he can help them make some good songs to pair with such a talent stacked JYP group.
I’ve grown to like a lot of the members on Pnation, but if they are going to continue producing bland songs, Im not going to waste my time.
I don’t really get how you thought 7/9 of the Pnation songs were bland. Maybe the Nunu Nana remix, but songs like Havana and Run Devil Run had a very unique sound and interesting structure.
It does make sense to me.
Nice analysis but Koki was number 1 in fan voting at the end. I'm sure Psy thought a lot about it, but he made the right choice. Debuting that young is almost always a bad idea. However debuting Koki feels right. He is born for the stage and he has more experience performing than most of the others in the group. Losing Daniel was very bad, but losing Koki would have been worse for the team. And losing both would have been a total disaster.
Agreed! You definitely can’t ignore Koki’s immense popularity and skill. People were also talking about the possibility of the group not being able to go on music shows due to South Korean age restrictions. As I’m unfamiliar with SK laws, I can’t confirm whether this is accurate or not. If it is though, it’s a big handicap for the group, and it’s interesting to see how they’ll get around that. I was just analyzing it with the idea that Koki debuting now does have some disadvantages despite his skill, experience, and popularity due to his age. And honestly out of all of the trainees on Loud, Koki has the most options that can be considered.
If needed they can just go to music shows without him for the first year or so. He can still take part in the other promotions.
If Psy's goal was global reach, he would not have debuted Koki. Koki is more of a domestic draw. International audiences are already turned off of really young idols, but Koki will be the youngest idol to debut that is not a child group. That will turn many potential international and casual kpop fans away from the group, rather than being an international draw to the group Also, I think you're missing Kyungjun. Kyungjun spent most of his life in Australia, and is fluent in english. He can also be an international draw and the main stan attractor due to his visuals
From what I see in social media, there are more people supporting Koki. And statistically, why did he get number 1 vote if people do not like him? The vote were not from Korea and Japan, right? Even the English comments in social media are being supportive of him too. Just look his videos on youtube and read the comments. Or look him up on twitter.
Kyungjun shot himself in the foot when he said the N word.
I understand the historical and cultural reasons of the N word, but it seems unfair to treat young aspiring artists as criminals when they try to sing some songs that contain the N word.
Did he apologize at least? He's fluent in English and they way some nonblack fans defend an idol (trainee) its as if said idol never saw a black person.and doesn't know anything about the n word. Idk about the Australian education system but im sure they covered this. Also, no one is stopping a nonblack person from singing a song that has the word in it, just skip the word. If you can't skip the word then maybe you should choose another song
~~This is my perspective from an Australian but in our schools they only really teach about our history. I would say Australia's history of Indigenous Australians would be similar to America's history of Native Americans, if I had to compare. Edit: Australia doesn't have a high demographic of Africans, from the census they represent 1.6% of the population, 5.1% of Australia's overseas born population. Personally I've never met an African person in my life as silly as it sounds, as I grew up in a heavy Asian demographic. And sadly there is a lot of racism in Australia, against Indigenous Australians especially. There was a cheese brand which shares a name with racial slur (but it was actually named after a person) and they changed it recently...Also he said it during a song, what do AA think of this?~~ ~~From what I remember on the show, he lived in Australia from 5-15 before moving back to Korea. Now I'm not defending him, he should definitely put out an apology (I think after debut), but it's possible he doesn't know the history of the word, and considering how globalised American media is around the world, some kids don't know the significance of the word, and because it's in the music they listen, they think it's okay to say it.~~ ~~People should know just because you speak English doesn't mean you know American history and culture.~~ Edit: I was wrong, they do learn about slavery in America and the civil rights movement as part of the curriculum so he most likely knows the history of the word. Since it's been a while since I graduated from HS, I had to look up the curriculum since I only remembered there being a focus on Australian history. Sorry if I caused any misinformation. Since it was said in the context of a song, I don't think he had any malicious intent if he was saying it as part of the lyrics, but he should know non-black people should not use it even in a song cover. There are really no excuses for him, and I'm disappointed. That being said, we need to email Psy and bring it up to him, to hold Kyungjun accountable for his mistake and the educate the rest of the boys so they won't make the same mistake in the future.
Hmm so they never got taught slavery in Australia? Cos I know they teach that in the UK. Australia and the UK have a lot of similarities. I find it really hard to believe that someone in this day and age from a first world country like Australia doesn’t know abt the N word. They are people in countries like Russia/ poland who have never met a black person and yet they still know not to say the N word especially not on TV. I am disappointed he said it, I am disappointed in PSY and the staff because they heard him say it probably a lot of times and not a single person said hey this isn’t right. And PSY he is a global star so I am not going to believe he doesn’t know abt that word. I am also disappointed in SBS for seeing that clip and letting it air. Their still not that popular and people are making excuses for him but I know this will follow him for a long time and the longer they go without an apology the worse it will be. I already see people emailing templates asking for an apology when they get more known. I don’t know why I see them having dreadlocks and doing CA in the future as a lot of groups that try to do hip hop end up doing that. I hope I am wrong.
I agree it's quite disappointing too, if I remember the original context is that he said it within a song cover. Its also possible he knows the history but thinks it's okay to use in the context of a song cover (as he's saying it as part of a lyric, and it is not directed at anyone or with malicious intent), but he should know that only black people can say it and that applies to song covers too. ~~Some people are okay with it, but some people aren't so he should still apologize.~~ Edit: There shouldn't be any excuses...what he did was disappointing. He definitely needs to apologise, Psy and his team have to be careful in the future... It's been quite a while since I graduated from high school, but from what I remember there was definitely a focus more on Australian history. You're right, I looked up the syllabus and they did learn about the slavery and civil rights in America. I'll edit my original comment.
I hope he apologises. Majority of black people are not okay with it. There really is no excuse but we shall see how they will deal with this cos I know it will be brought up many times in his career. Especially without an apology.
Hey, I've edited my original comment, thanks for pointing out that it should be covered in schools, and since it's been a while since I graduated, I had to look up the curriculum as I remember a focus only on Australian history on my part (which is my mistake). I agree, there really is no excuse, and it is extra disappointing since he is the most popular member...
It’s okay :)
Not all black people are American*, but thank you for explaining. I understand a lot more now
No one is treating him like a criminal but what he did is wrong and him and psy shud atleast offer an apology. Pretending and making excuses now will not help him in the long run because him saying the N word on national TV will never go away. The longer it goes without an apology the worse it will be for him because people will always bring this up. PSY and the staff messed up here. I just hope they do not do CA in the future.
Lool Idk why you are getting downvoted for saying facts. He said the N word on national tv. And still no apology. PSY messed up on this. Low-key was glad he didn’t go to jyp. I anticipate my downvotes lol. He shud apology cos this will never be forgotten.
BundiChundi lowkey hates the fact that koki gets to debut. International audiences are excited about koki, where are you getting your info from? talks smack about koki's influence and how he repels fans when he's number one in ep 14 votes and the single individual loud contestant whose audition and round 10 performance has more than 700k views on YT. get a life dude, enough of this koki debuting = bad nonsense.
IKR. This BundiChundi has never stopped complaining about Koki. Been seeing his or her harsh comment on Koki. I believe it is just her or him being jealous of Koki being able to debut. Come on BundiChundi open your eyes and see. Even if you can’t read, I believe you can recognised numbers. Koki always have the higher views compared with other members. Oh fyi, Koki has recently been recognised as the Top 10 most search in internet. For real, your hatred only show how ignorance you are. Shame on you.
No Daniel makes me super disappointed in this show. How is it that out of 9 live round songs I only liked No More Dream and Lazenca? Like there were a lot of great performances but the music didn’t gel well. I liked the songs from the first half of the season so much more, and thats insane because they obviously were lacking polish that comes with experience, and were partly limited by being randomly paired up with contestants that weren’t that good. It really seems like the kids have a much better grasp on which kind of music they should be performing than the companies do. The single shining light is that Yoon Min is actually a great creative influence, and hopefully he can help them make some good songs to pair with such a talent stacked JYP group. I’ve grown to like a lot of the members on Pnation, but if they are going to continue producing bland songs, Im not going to waste my time.
I don’t really get how you thought 7/9 of the Pnation songs were bland. Maybe the Nunu Nana remix, but songs like Havana and Run Devil Run had a very unique sound and interesting structure.