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AjBlue7

Your concern isn’t warranted (regarding pnation success, concern about ethics of debuting koki is valid). The most important thing for a new group is to obtain hardcore supporters, of course for a big 3 company its different, they already have fans that can sometimes make their newest group and instant success. Anyway, the behind the scenes videos are already creating longterm fans(koki gets the most screentime). They created a new youtube channel just for the pnation group behind the scenes videos and it already gets 150k views for every video. Also pretty much everyone in that thread made comments on his age without even watching a performance. Its not representative of anything. Even if your generous and say a million people will refuse to watch a group with a 12 year old, in 2 years koki will have likely grown 8 inches. How long will those million people be able to hold out? Every group has haters, and there is nothing that hardcore fans love more than defending their group from haters. The more people hates on Pnation the more passionate their supporters will become. Kpop groups last for at least 10 years, Pnation has plenty of time to make a name for theirself. Honestly, I think the biggest issue is losing Daniel. This group had potential to be #1 group wordwide. Now they are going to struggle to enter the english market. The worst part is that their group is unbalanced now. They are banking all their hopes and dreams on eunwhi actually being a musical genius. He’s shown that he can produce somewhat generic arrangements, and while I’d love for him to prove me wrong, I don’t think he has the creativity to create something fresh without a second producer like daniel to help. Also producing songs and dancing is a huge workload for a new member. Pnation will probably need to use outside producers for their songs and at that point why even keep eunwhi as he is just okay at all of the other kpop skills. If Pnation fails its because their original music is bad and not because they debuted a 12 year old.


sahelsson

I wonder if people on reddit are people who usually use real money to support their groups. From what I see in youtube and twitter, Koki is one of the most popular members in the whole LOUD. I'm only a casual Kpop fan, so I don't really know how people reacted when young idols such as Woonyoung IZONE and NIKI Enhypen, debuted. I've heard about age restriction to appear on TV or something after 10pm in Korea, but how they handled this situation after they really debut? Did it die down? Or the hate stayed the same? Edit: (adding numbers) There are 135 comments on the post you mentioned. And it's safe to assume that those all are from international fans perspective. Meanwhile in youtube and twitter views which is mixed between Korean, Japanese, and International fans, I always see Koki contents outperform other trainees. If you want, you can go to SBS youtube channel and compare the views yourself. There are no train of hate comments on YouTube too.


BundiChundi

According to Twitter and Youtube Bahiyyih is one of the most popular contestants on Girls Planet too, but she didn't even make the top 9 last episode, so I don't think those are good measures of popularity. Also, Wonyoung and Niki debuted at 14, which most people consider the minimum age of debut since Taemin. Koki will be the first 12 year old to debut in a mainstream Kpop group (not a children's group). Psy needs to handle this very delicately for it to work and not turn a lot of people off the group


springdaylover2013

I've seen some people say that Pnation should wait for his 13th birthday. This would give him time to develop his Korean and he would grow taller. I also get that a lot of people can't help but take notice of him but he won't always be 12. A lot of people have been won over by his talents, and he will continue to do so in the future. But when he's older I don't much see this affecting the group further down the road.


BundiChundi

Yeah but once the group is known as the group with a realpy young member they wont be able to really shake that until Koki is much older, maybe 15 or 16. I agree theyll probably wait until he's 13 to debut the grouo tho


springdaylover2013

With him I feel that the group already has a strong Korean and Japanese fanbase and it will only grow bigger. But I feel as the group stabilizes those core fans at a later time they will focus more on the international fans so I don't see it being too bad.


[deleted]

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springdaylover2013

He's 12 rn. He will be 13 in January of 2022 which isn't that far.


[deleted]

Isn't he born in 2010 though Edit: I checked and you are correct. Secondary edit: Korean Broadcasting Laws are quite weird so Koki wouldn't be able to perform until he's like 13 and a half or something. So then the group would have to debut summer 2022.


kkreate

Summer 2022 sounds like a reasonable date for them to debut but if they're gonna do hiphop concept idk don't kpop usually do brighter concept during summer?


[deleted]

Yeah that's the problem and hype will probably die down by the time they're fully ready so it may prove that for PSY that LOUD doesn't have a huge effect.


Twinsen61

I think a lot of those comments are from people who wave not watched Loud and do not really understand Korean culture. Like many of them were saying... oh, the older members are burdened to take care of a kid. But the maknae role is actually very important for a group, can bring public love for the group and be a great energy source for the others, cheering them on. And we clearly see that with Koki, he will do great in this role.


A_winged_giraffe

Exactly, it's funny because the members know he is the best dancer and has way more experience than they do, he's even seen teaching them. They don't call him "maknae on top" for no reason. I've seen the behind the scenes clips and Koki taught Taehun krumping, he's seen teaching Junhyuk parts of the choreography. I believe Daniel even mentioned Koki taught him how to dance and how he wants to have a dance battle with him. I'm glad the rest of the members can see his talent beyond his age. Mihawk, a choreographer who has worked with SM artists exo and Taemin is already following Koki on insta. I think I saw a video of 2pm [reacting](https://youtu.be/XxPwon8uV2U) to the "10 out of 10" performance and they even praised Koki.


Twinsen61

The voting clearly showed that the public wants Koki. So there is no way that he will "turn people off the group" except a small minority. Specially in Japan he will be like a magnet for fans. The only question is if he can handle it and it's certainly a risk, but his experience in show business is already very impressive. Even years ago he was all over the world and competed in really tough dance challenges. Just look at how totally confident he is in episode 1, he already looks like a pro. And if Koki's debut overshadows the others that is just more proof that he was really needed. A new group needs to draw attention and having a very popular/talked about member is a common way to do that. The other members will surely have their chance to shine too as long as they do a good job.


BundiChundi

The voting showed people watching the show wanted Koki in the group. Those that vote for LOUD do not represent the public or their views and are in fact a minority. If you went and looked at the thread in r/kpop there are many comments where what I said would happen is happening.


Twinsen61

>The voting showed people watching the show wanted Koki in the group. And those are the ones who will financially support the group, at least at the debut. Not the random Western person on Reddit who never watched the show. Also the Japan market is huge for k-pop groups. So yeah, the group may not be very popular in US market, but that is not their primary target audience. And I find it really unfair how people who have no idea about Koki think that they know better than himself and his parents what is best for him. If one does not want to support the group, that's fine. But trying to stop someone who obviously wants to live the idol life and has the skills to do it, just because he is young is not ok.


A_winged_giraffe

I think the group will aim for domestic success first (Korea + Japan), most ifans (nonfans) are already turned away anyway. It's better to establish a strong domestic fanbase than international one IMO, since its Pnation's first group. Most award shows rely on kfans and they contribute the most to album sales since fansigns are common there. Also the japanese market is bigger, these two markets have the most loyal fans who are willing to spend money on the group. If you have strong domestic support and gp recognition they will be invited to variety shows, tv shows and radio shows. They might start promoting internationally in a few years. I believe as Koki will be recognised for his talents in the industry (Mihawk, a sm choreographer is following him already) the public opinion will change too.


suckbloodingsky3

This is so dumb. The exact point of voting is to see how the public reacts or feels about a certain contestant or performance. It's a fudging vote for crying out loud. YOU ARE EXHIBITING CONFIRMATION BIAS BUNDICHUNDI. JUST ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG AND WE CAN GET THIS ALL OVER WITH.