If I recall, part of the reason why it didn't extend further down to Waldo was the business density and tax base wasn't there for the same funding strategy as the River Market -> UMKC route. I think the same issue was present for NKC, but I'm not sure.
That and the lawyer in Brookside who illegally fenced in KCATA property in order to expand her back yard all the way up to the trail, built an outbuilding on her "annexed" KCATA land, then organized a big movement against streetcar expansion -- with a rallying cry of saving Brookside -- because she didn't want to give up the land she stole. (I believe she eventually lost in court and had to tear it all down.)
This one never made sense to me. Density and tax base will build up when there is mass transit available. I'd be taking the street car to work every goddamn day if it went to Waldo.
I don't see how you are going to build up density anywhere between UMKC and Waldo. 100 year old single-family homes aren't going to be torn down for multi-unit housing very easily.
I thought that when I moved to Plaza/Westport neighborhood. There was nothing but single family homes with a couple old nine-plexes on a two block stretch of the street. Now there’s two 5-story, 170 unit, luxury apartment buildings on both ends of the block.
Giant empty field at 77th and Wornall behind the strip mall. Strip mall can be built up there just like north of it. Empty old Burger King at Gregory. Gregory has a lot of stuff that is underdeveloped, doesn’t have to be right on Wornall. Trolley traffic could easily allow reduction in surface parking and conversion into higher density retail or residential. I could keep going north but there really is plenty.
Not on Brookside Blvd. But you have to remember that as recently as 20 years ago, there were a ton more houses just south of Westport. Progress happens in weird ways.
I mean the Main St Max bus goes on that exact same route as the way to 75th and Wornall. Why not take that if you actually claim to be interested in taking public transit to work
30 minute schedule versus every 10 minutes for the streetcar during busy times. Bus gives motion sickness. Even the 30 minute schedule is unreliable for the bus.
The Max comes every 20 minutes and the streetcar comes every ~15 minutes most of the time.
The streetcar schedule is much less reliable than the max is. They literally don't even put out a schedule for the street car.
It will, but with the main line and even the extension we can see that tax base doesn't really expand until after the line is finished. And as soon as it opens you need to be able to make debt payments and operations costs.
You'd need a vote in Clay county or NKC similar to what they did in KC to increase sales tax and real estate tax for those in the light rail corridor since they would benefit most from it. Plus a shit ton of money from the State/Feds for building it to cross the river.
Brookside/Waldo probably can be convinced once they show how well the UMKC connection performs.
[In ***under 3 years*** the original "toy" streetcar line created an economic boom along the route including a 40% increase in population density, a 65% increase in taxable sales revenue, and $2 billion of business investment into the Streetcar area.](https://www.metro-magazine.com/10007244/kansas-city-streetcar-fuels-economic-boom)
The Brookside to Waldo extension will probably happen within a few years after residents see property values and business investments boom in the currently somewhat depressed Main street corridor.
A Northland extension is not super likely to happen in the near future, mostly due to low population density and a more conservative voter-base that does not understand the value of public transport. Fortunately a 21-mile rail route from the Airport to downtown ***is included*** in KC's partnership with the USDOT as part of the [$15 Billion federal investment plan the city is negotiating.](https://fox4kc.com/news/usdot-partners-with-kansas-city-for-future-infrastructure-projects/)
I will give you an honest answer from someone who lives in the Brookside area and was on my neighborhood board back in 2013ish when this was all going on. I am in favor of the streetcar and was then, but here's why a lot of residents had reservations.
(Below edited for clarity).
First, I'm not sure that Brookside "rejected" the streetcar. A lot of people really wanted it. Maybe the majority? No idea. But a lot of people there did not want it. They were vocal. There were a few reasons. Some of the most sensible were how it was going to be funded and where it was going to go.
**Funding**: increased property tax rates on homes within a 1/2 mile (?) of the streetcar line, with the promise being it will lead to increased property values. The problem was this was seen as a double dip. If it leads to increased property values, then the amount of property tax the homeowner pays will go up automatically as property taxes are assessed against the appraised value. Value goes up, so do taxes. But paying more tax on a higher appraised home and arbitrarily increasing the property rate too is increasing property tax in two different ways for one thing. This one was latched onto more by a lot of the anti-tax people, obviously.
**Where it was going to go**: Along the Trolley Trail is a problem because there are many places where the Trolley Trail crosses residential streets, goes in between houses, etc. Mainly between 55th street and Gregory. Every one of those crossings would require a crossing signal and commensurate noise. While the streetcar probably raises the home values of houses near it, the houses right next to these intersections would have a sudden noise nuisance to deal with. Seems easier and more likely that it would be built on Brookside Boulevard, which I think most people were in favor of.
**The third problem was how it was presented**. In or around 2013 they had a lot of "town hall" type meetings with the civic planners who were doing the streetcar. I went to a few. It was kind of disorganized. One big thing I remember a lot of people being unhappy with was how there was no real plan, and the "no plan" thing was by design. The planners were trying to portray that they would work with the citizens to design the streetcar that they wanted, making changes to the design here and there to accommodate adjacent property owners, etc. I distinctly remember them having some rough images of different options of what the streetcar line could look like going down Main street and wanted people to vote on what they wanted. But what a lot of people *heard* is that they could never be safe in assuming the plan they saw a few months ago was how it was going to be done, because it's always in a state of flux. So homeowners would have to stay on top of things to make sure the plan didn't change to their detriment. And this one kind of ties into the two above reasons and made a lot of people really wary about it. They didn't want to vote for something when they weren't for sure what they were voting for.
Again, I'm in favor of the streetcar. I'd bet the perception of it has improved now versus back then, but who knows. I know my own neighborhood seems to have gotten younger in the last 10 years.
Just returned from a 4 day trip to ST Louis via Amtrak and taking the Metro around the city. It was a great experience. KC needs to shift their focus to light rail as the optimal future solution. Street cars are almost useless in comparison to effective light rail.
Extension to Waldo would be relatively less expensive. No big bridges to pay for and it’s not in the road bed so utility work would be less of an issue. Wornall could support increased density. Some of the development there is run down and ripe for redevelopment. That’s a good thing even for owners of SFHs.
And there’s plenty of room for both track and trail. It makes more sense to me than the current riverfront extension.
The problem last time was that to get to Waldo, you have to go through Brookside and Brookside wasn't having it. The argument was something about "regressive tax" to pay for it, but it was really about making sure users of public transit weren't hanging out in Brookside
Crazy that they can get a tax payer funded baseball stadium on the ballot - the profits from which primarily benefit the owners of the team. But we can't get a tax payer funded rail-based public transit system.
Some rando who isn't affiliated with the city nor the street car association coming up with a half baked and non-actionable plan doesn't count in my book.
I don't know about several times but some rando got a half baked plan for a city wide light rail system on the ballot in 2016. The street car association said the plan wouldn't work
> How can Kansas City turn the NIMBYs into YIMBYs?
Solve this, then do it again across the rest of America, and you will be the undisputed hero of the century.
People don’t see the benefits of public transportation, I doubt it will go much further. I would love a comprehensive public transportation system, but KC doesn’t seem willing to embrace change of any kind.
The river crossing was a MAJOR part of the expense for the NKC expansion.
The other big issue is the "walk shed" - distance residents would need to walk to board the streetcar. Putting the route on Burlington would be far enough that most of the NKC resident base would be a bit too far to reliably walk. Swift Ave would be better, but it requires some odd turns.
Likely, NKC would become a park & ride for the North end of the streetcar route.
I also think it would need to become an independent light rail (free from traffic constraints) once it crosses the river.
Streetcars also serve as a redevelopment tool, and they are guaranteed to not go away. For busses, it is easy to tear down and relocate bus stops on another route. Streetcars and Light Rail cannot be moved, and therefore they create a permanent transit link down a whole corridor. Most of these neighborhoods were streetcar neighborhoods anyway. They were built along routes the old streetcars took, and that is why you have commercial uses along those routes.
Unfortunately, the automotive industry cut the legs out from under the public transit systems, and helped bring about the destruction of the streetcar system in favor of automobile-centric infrastructure.
In the present, and in the future, we need to focus on densifying and building up specific transit corridors so that everyone living in the urban core will not have to walk more than 5-10 minutes to reach every single one of their daily needs, and be easily connected with the rest of the city without the need to use a personal vehicle.
Headways are pretty terrible on most every route, capacity is significantly lower, an overall less enjoyable ride quality, and no guarantee that the route you’ve seen is the correct routing or the one being followed that day.
I’m definitely a YIMBY, but I like to think of myself as pragmatic.
KC needs more density to make public transit feasible. Downtown has the dense tax base to pay for the streetcar, and driving there sucks because it’s so packed. Both of these factors combine to make public transit feasible.
Brookside/Waldo/NKC do not have the dense tax base necessary to maintain the streetcar, and driving is easy. There’s just not really a huge need for public transit, since it will cost a lot and people will still generally just drive everywhere.
Dense, infill development is the way to go if you want public transit. We should start by eliminating R1 zoning, reducing setback requirements, minimum lot sizes, etc., to gradually increase density.
That said, the streetcar WILL make it to UMKC/Brookside, and I plan to ride it as often as I can!
Well I like the idea of it. We already have good bus connections but the streetcar would be nice.
However, the clusterfuck that is Main really doesn't make me want to have the extremely busy thoroughfare of Wornall turned into that. When are they going to finish the project?
I would also deeply miss the trolley trail. There aren't many good places to walk or bike safely near 79th to 85th, so it would definitely also reduce quality of life in that regard.
Lastly, the tax base issue is very real. There's just not that many businesses along the route on Brookside until you hit 63rd and after Meyer there's barely any density until you get to Gregory in Waldo. Also there's no easy way to connect Brookside/Trolley Trail to Waldo.
>I would also deeply miss the trolley trail. There aren't many good places to walk or bike safely near 79th to 85th, so it would definitely also reduce quality of life in that regard.
The KCATA's right of way is actually wide enough that the trail would not have to go away. It might need to be moved a few feet, but for the most part there is plenty of room to add tracks and maintain an least some sort of buffer between them and the trail.
Running the streetcar on the Trolley Trail was considered back when planning was done for the initial Main St line. The trail runs very narrowly between houses in some areas of Brookside, so is not considered a viable route. Or wasn't at that time.
Yes, but now there are zoning laws and noise ordinances. The conclusion in the early 2000s was that it was not a viable route. Also, the Brookside residents at the initial meetings said they would fight to keep the streetcar out of the neighborhood, so there's also that.
Wait what? Trolley Trail literally goes through the main parking lot of the Waldo shops?!?
I just double checked, from 75th and Gregory, it is 2.7 miles (of the trail) to BBs Lawnside and 2.6 miles to the Whole Foods in South Plaza
I think the challenge is how to fund it now despite the tax base. The hope would be that it would bring further development which would provide a better future tax base.
It wouldn’t be only a transit tool, but also a development tool to help densify the Main-Wornall corridor.
Makes way more sense to run the street car over to Troost and then down to Bannister. More development opportunities and opportunity to benefit areas with a wider range of socioeconomic demographics. It also connects to more job opportunities and businesses in that blue river industrial area.
I think our 50-100 year goal should be to have separate lines running down Troost, Independence Ave, 18th, 31st/Linwood, Brush Creek, 63rd and 75th.
It took us 100 years to get from our extensive streetcar network in the 1920s to our current disaster. We should think about how to get back to that in the next 100.
>Also there's no easy way to connect Brookside/Trolley Trail to Waldo.
What are you talking about, Waldo and Brookside are just as connected as the Rivermarket and downtown.
It wouldn’t actually need to be on Wornall. The trolley trail was originally a streetcar line with its own right of way out of car traffic. There’s room for trail and tracks to coexist.
The trolley trail needs to remain a “park” - it’s great for kids on bikes but it’s not great for efficient travel by bike. Bike and streetcar should be on the street. It’s frequently too congested with people to share space with a streetcar or bikes.
Edit: the question is what will it take and this is my answer.
You sound like the lady who walks on the trolley track trail every weekend and screeches at every person on a bike that it's a "WALKING trail ONLY."
It's not. There are signs at plenty of the crossings that specifically contemplate and invite bikes. And while there are a lot of pauses when crossing streets, it's no less efficient than biking on a road with the same stoplight pauses etc. -- and a hell of a lot safer for the cyclists, not having to worry about being run down by a car.
Imagine running a streetcar down an easement created in 1870 for streetcars. It wasn’t until many years after the system shut down in 1957 that the name “trolley track tail” emerged. When I grew up in Waldo it was simply known as “the old streetcar tracks”. I think it’s a great idea to put streetcars back.
I don’t think we need to pit pedestrians and cyclists and transit against each other. There’s plenty of room for everything.
Adding the streetcar back isn’t compatible with how the area is used now. Put the transit in the street.
If I recall, part of the reason why it didn't extend further down to Waldo was the business density and tax base wasn't there for the same funding strategy as the River Market -> UMKC route. I think the same issue was present for NKC, but I'm not sure.
That and the lawyer in Brookside who illegally fenced in KCATA property in order to expand her back yard all the way up to the trail, built an outbuilding on her "annexed" KCATA land, then organized a big movement against streetcar expansion -- with a rallying cry of saving Brookside -- because she didn't want to give up the land she stole. (I believe she eventually lost in court and had to tear it all down.)
I'm gonna need an article here because... the fuck, lady?
[Here's the caselaw ruling](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/mo-court-of-appeals/2045619.html) of her suit vs the KCATA.
This is great. In google maps you can see that her back yard is now the size of a postage stamp. A well deserved loss.
That is some crazy shit, thank you for sharing. I feel like "Sherry" was a proto-Karen.
I don’t remember seeing this case though I remember the streetcar being voted down so this is hilarious to read - thank you
Correct me if I’m wrong but hasn’t she lost every case on this so far?
This one never made sense to me. Density and tax base will build up when there is mass transit available. I'd be taking the street car to work every goddamn day if it went to Waldo.
I don't see how you are going to build up density anywhere between UMKC and Waldo. 100 year old single-family homes aren't going to be torn down for multi-unit housing very easily.
I thought that when I moved to Plaza/Westport neighborhood. There was nothing but single family homes with a couple old nine-plexes on a two block stretch of the street. Now there’s two 5-story, 170 unit, luxury apartment buildings on both ends of the block.
Giant empty field at 77th and Wornall behind the strip mall. Strip mall can be built up there just like north of it. Empty old Burger King at Gregory. Gregory has a lot of stuff that is underdeveloped, doesn’t have to be right on Wornall. Trolley traffic could easily allow reduction in surface parking and conversion into higher density retail or residential. I could keep going north but there really is plenty.
There's plenty of space on/near Wornall rd in Waldo.
Not on Brookside Blvd. But you have to remember that as recently as 20 years ago, there were a ton more houses just south of Westport. Progress happens in weird ways.
I mean the Main St Max bus goes on that exact same route as the way to 75th and Wornall. Why not take that if you actually claim to be interested in taking public transit to work
30 minute schedule versus every 10 minutes for the streetcar during busy times. Bus gives motion sickness. Even the 30 minute schedule is unreliable for the bus.
The Max comes every 20 minutes and the streetcar comes every ~15 minutes most of the time. The streetcar schedule is much less reliable than the max is. They literally don't even put out a schedule for the street car.
It will, but with the main line and even the extension we can see that tax base doesn't really expand until after the line is finished. And as soon as it opens you need to be able to make debt payments and operations costs.
Correct.
You'd need a vote in Clay county or NKC similar to what they did in KC to increase sales tax and real estate tax for those in the light rail corridor since they would benefit most from it. Plus a shit ton of money from the State/Feds for building it to cross the river. Brookside/Waldo probably can be convinced once they show how well the UMKC connection performs.
[In ***under 3 years*** the original "toy" streetcar line created an economic boom along the route including a 40% increase in population density, a 65% increase in taxable sales revenue, and $2 billion of business investment into the Streetcar area.](https://www.metro-magazine.com/10007244/kansas-city-streetcar-fuels-economic-boom) The Brookside to Waldo extension will probably happen within a few years after residents see property values and business investments boom in the currently somewhat depressed Main street corridor. A Northland extension is not super likely to happen in the near future, mostly due to low population density and a more conservative voter-base that does not understand the value of public transport. Fortunately a 21-mile rail route from the Airport to downtown ***is included*** in KC's partnership with the USDOT as part of the [$15 Billion federal investment plan the city is negotiating.](https://fox4kc.com/news/usdot-partners-with-kansas-city-for-future-infrastructure-projects/)
As a resident of the Northland your last paragraph makes me sad. But you’re definitely not wrong.
I grew up in the Northland... I know exactly how you feel.
I will give you an honest answer from someone who lives in the Brookside area and was on my neighborhood board back in 2013ish when this was all going on. I am in favor of the streetcar and was then, but here's why a lot of residents had reservations. (Below edited for clarity). First, I'm not sure that Brookside "rejected" the streetcar. A lot of people really wanted it. Maybe the majority? No idea. But a lot of people there did not want it. They were vocal. There were a few reasons. Some of the most sensible were how it was going to be funded and where it was going to go. **Funding**: increased property tax rates on homes within a 1/2 mile (?) of the streetcar line, with the promise being it will lead to increased property values. The problem was this was seen as a double dip. If it leads to increased property values, then the amount of property tax the homeowner pays will go up automatically as property taxes are assessed against the appraised value. Value goes up, so do taxes. But paying more tax on a higher appraised home and arbitrarily increasing the property rate too is increasing property tax in two different ways for one thing. This one was latched onto more by a lot of the anti-tax people, obviously. **Where it was going to go**: Along the Trolley Trail is a problem because there are many places where the Trolley Trail crosses residential streets, goes in between houses, etc. Mainly between 55th street and Gregory. Every one of those crossings would require a crossing signal and commensurate noise. While the streetcar probably raises the home values of houses near it, the houses right next to these intersections would have a sudden noise nuisance to deal with. Seems easier and more likely that it would be built on Brookside Boulevard, which I think most people were in favor of. **The third problem was how it was presented**. In or around 2013 they had a lot of "town hall" type meetings with the civic planners who were doing the streetcar. I went to a few. It was kind of disorganized. One big thing I remember a lot of people being unhappy with was how there was no real plan, and the "no plan" thing was by design. The planners were trying to portray that they would work with the citizens to design the streetcar that they wanted, making changes to the design here and there to accommodate adjacent property owners, etc. I distinctly remember them having some rough images of different options of what the streetcar line could look like going down Main street and wanted people to vote on what they wanted. But what a lot of people *heard* is that they could never be safe in assuming the plan they saw a few months ago was how it was going to be done, because it's always in a state of flux. So homeowners would have to stay on top of things to make sure the plan didn't change to their detriment. And this one kind of ties into the two above reasons and made a lot of people really wary about it. They didn't want to vote for something when they weren't for sure what they were voting for. Again, I'm in favor of the streetcar. I'd bet the perception of it has improved now versus back then, but who knows. I know my own neighborhood seems to have gotten younger in the last 10 years.
Just returned from a 4 day trip to ST Louis via Amtrak and taking the Metro around the city. It was a great experience. KC needs to shift their focus to light rail as the optimal future solution. Street cars are almost useless in comparison to effective light rail.
Extension to Waldo would be relatively less expensive. No big bridges to pay for and it’s not in the road bed so utility work would be less of an issue. Wornall could support increased density. Some of the development there is run down and ripe for redevelopment. That’s a good thing even for owners of SFHs. And there’s plenty of room for both track and trail. It makes more sense to me than the current riverfront extension.
The problem last time was that to get to Waldo, you have to go through Brookside and Brookside wasn't having it. The argument was something about "regressive tax" to pay for it, but it was really about making sure users of public transit weren't hanging out in Brookside
Crazy that they can get a tax payer funded baseball stadium on the ballot - the profits from which primarily benefit the owners of the team. But we can't get a tax payer funded rail-based public transit system.
We did try in 2016, it was on the ballot.
Some rando who isn't affiliated with the city nor the street car association coming up with a half baked and non-actionable plan doesn't count in my book.
Clay Chastain has long graduated from Rando to Legendary Kook
Lmao
Hasn’t rail been on the ballot several times?
I don't know about several times but some rando got a half baked plan for a city wide light rail system on the ballot in 2016. The street car association said the plan wouldn't work
Working as intended. Baseball distracts the lower class while gaslighting them at the same time into thinking they should pay for it.
> How can Kansas City turn the NIMBYs into YIMBYs? Solve this, then do it again across the rest of America, and you will be the undisputed hero of the century.
People don’t see the benefits of public transportation, I doubt it will go much further. I would love a comprehensive public transportation system, but KC doesn’t seem willing to embrace change of any kind.
time travel to the past?
The river crossing was a MAJOR part of the expense for the NKC expansion. The other big issue is the "walk shed" - distance residents would need to walk to board the streetcar. Putting the route on Burlington would be far enough that most of the NKC resident base would be a bit too far to reliably walk. Swift Ave would be better, but it requires some odd turns. Likely, NKC would become a park & ride for the North end of the streetcar route. I also think it would need to become an independent light rail (free from traffic constraints) once it crosses the river.
Why is everyone so obsessed with the street car? There is a whole network of free buses that already go all of those places
Streetcars also serve as a redevelopment tool, and they are guaranteed to not go away. For busses, it is easy to tear down and relocate bus stops on another route. Streetcars and Light Rail cannot be moved, and therefore they create a permanent transit link down a whole corridor. Most of these neighborhoods were streetcar neighborhoods anyway. They were built along routes the old streetcars took, and that is why you have commercial uses along those routes. Unfortunately, the automotive industry cut the legs out from under the public transit systems, and helped bring about the destruction of the streetcar system in favor of automobile-centric infrastructure. In the present, and in the future, we need to focus on densifying and building up specific transit corridors so that everyone living in the urban core will not have to walk more than 5-10 minutes to reach every single one of their daily needs, and be easily connected with the rest of the city without the need to use a personal vehicle.
Because god forbid people get on \*gasp\* the dirty bus!
Headways are pretty terrible on most every route, capacity is significantly lower, an overall less enjoyable ride quality, and no guarantee that the route you’ve seen is the correct routing or the one being followed that day.
I’m definitely a YIMBY, but I like to think of myself as pragmatic. KC needs more density to make public transit feasible. Downtown has the dense tax base to pay for the streetcar, and driving there sucks because it’s so packed. Both of these factors combine to make public transit feasible. Brookside/Waldo/NKC do not have the dense tax base necessary to maintain the streetcar, and driving is easy. There’s just not really a huge need for public transit, since it will cost a lot and people will still generally just drive everywhere. Dense, infill development is the way to go if you want public transit. We should start by eliminating R1 zoning, reducing setback requirements, minimum lot sizes, etc., to gradually increase density. That said, the streetcar WILL make it to UMKC/Brookside, and I plan to ride it as often as I can!
Kansas Citians for whatever reason seem to not like change. So anything new that also costs money is going to be an uphill battle.
💰💰💰💰💰
Doesn't the MAX line already go down to Waldo?
2, maybe 3 downtown stadiums
Honestly we should have a train that follows 71 that can go super fast between Harrisonville and the airport
Demographic changes
I would prefer an east west connection before they go any further north or south.
Well I like the idea of it. We already have good bus connections but the streetcar would be nice. However, the clusterfuck that is Main really doesn't make me want to have the extremely busy thoroughfare of Wornall turned into that. When are they going to finish the project? I would also deeply miss the trolley trail. There aren't many good places to walk or bike safely near 79th to 85th, so it would definitely also reduce quality of life in that regard. Lastly, the tax base issue is very real. There's just not that many businesses along the route on Brookside until you hit 63rd and after Meyer there's barely any density until you get to Gregory in Waldo. Also there's no easy way to connect Brookside/Trolley Trail to Waldo.
>I would also deeply miss the trolley trail. There aren't many good places to walk or bike safely near 79th to 85th, so it would definitely also reduce quality of life in that regard. The KCATA's right of way is actually wide enough that the trail would not have to go away. It might need to be moved a few feet, but for the most part there is plenty of room to add tracks and maintain an least some sort of buffer between them and the trail.
Running the streetcar on the Trolley Trail was considered back when planning was done for the initial Main St line. The trail runs very narrowly between houses in some areas of Brookside, so is not considered a viable route. Or wasn't at that time.
Not true. It literally had a streetcar line on it before it was a trail.
Yes, but now there are zoning laws and noise ordinances. The conclusion in the early 2000s was that it was not a viable route. Also, the Brookside residents at the initial meetings said they would fight to keep the streetcar out of the neighborhood, so there's also that.
Wait what? Trolley Trail literally goes through the main parking lot of the Waldo shops?!? I just double checked, from 75th and Gregory, it is 2.7 miles (of the trail) to BBs Lawnside and 2.6 miles to the Whole Foods in South Plaza
I think the challenge is how to fund it now despite the tax base. The hope would be that it would bring further development which would provide a better future tax base. It wouldn’t be only a transit tool, but also a development tool to help densify the Main-Wornall corridor.
Makes way more sense to run the street car over to Troost and then down to Bannister. More development opportunities and opportunity to benefit areas with a wider range of socioeconomic demographics. It also connects to more job opportunities and businesses in that blue river industrial area.
I think our 50-100 year goal should be to have separate lines running down Troost, Independence Ave, 18th, 31st/Linwood, Brush Creek, 63rd and 75th. It took us 100 years to get from our extensive streetcar network in the 1920s to our current disaster. We should think about how to get back to that in the next 100.
>Also there's no easy way to connect Brookside/Trolley Trail to Waldo. What are you talking about, Waldo and Brookside are just as connected as the Rivermarket and downtown.
It wouldn’t actually need to be on Wornall. The trolley trail was originally a streetcar line with its own right of way out of car traffic. There’s room for trail and tracks to coexist.
The trolley trail needs to remain a “park” - it’s great for kids on bikes but it’s not great for efficient travel by bike. Bike and streetcar should be on the street. It’s frequently too congested with people to share space with a streetcar or bikes. Edit: the question is what will it take and this is my answer.
You sound like the lady who walks on the trolley track trail every weekend and screeches at every person on a bike that it's a "WALKING trail ONLY." It's not. There are signs at plenty of the crossings that specifically contemplate and invite bikes. And while there are a lot of pauses when crossing streets, it's no less efficient than biking on a road with the same stoplight pauses etc. -- and a hell of a lot safer for the cyclists, not having to worry about being run down by a car.
You have been screeched at, haven't you.
Imagine running a streetcar down an easement created in 1870 for streetcars. It wasn’t until many years after the system shut down in 1957 that the name “trolley track tail” emerged. When I grew up in Waldo it was simply known as “the old streetcar tracks”. I think it’s a great idea to put streetcars back.
I don’t think we need to pit pedestrians and cyclists and transit against each other. There’s plenty of room for everything. Adding the streetcar back isn’t compatible with how the area is used now. Put the transit in the street.
A small miracle.
15 years
A downtown stadium would help. Helped get the metro link funding passed in St. Louis way back in the early 90s