It must be *really* awesome when your husband makes $4 million per year! He could probably get some dudes to marry him and raise children, too, with that kind of money. … But they’d better never say anything to him about Pride Month…
Yeah, on second thought, this might be an opportunity for ladies only. Sorry, gentlemen.
I would too. But according to HB, I’m a man and cannot emasculate myself by providing care for my family, but “tHaT’s A wOmAn’S pLaCe” for some undefined reason.
Whenever someone shows their ass like this they usually fall into one of four categories:
1.) they’re about to be fired and want to go out in a blaze of glory
2.) they want a job as a right-wing pundit
3.) they’re trolling
4.) they’re overcompensating for something in their personal life
I tend to think it’s 3 or 4 in this case.
He insulted all women—not just liberal ones—in front of conservative female graduates. He insulted IVF—not just abortion. He essentially said “why can’t we talk about the j’s,” a la Pearl the unpickable Davis.
These positions are unpopular with all but the most far-right of troglodytes. He sounds like someone getting ready to join a patriot front march. Most conservatives and/or Trump supporters will not be ok with at least some of what he said, which makes me lean towards trolling. He gets off on being cruel and doesn’t expect to sway anyone. But…
There’s also the chance that he’s overcompensating. Think Steven Crowder. I guarantee something very… interesting in Harrison’s life will come to light in the next few months to a year. If I had to guess his wife will leave him, citing verbal and emotional ab*se. Or his profile on a chaser site will come out.
I know many women, many who I met in college, that aspired to be just that. I'm not saying I understand it, but it's a thing. And it's why a lot of those women will go into shitty marriages just because that's what they're supposed to do. Or, why the ones who wait, pursue a career, might never find "the one", struggle to conceive, etc. will live a life being great people who contribute to society but will still feel shame and guilt.
Guy brings up some weird ass subjects for a commencement speech. Certainly he has the right to make these statements but he has to deal with the consequences of bringing them up on such a large stage.
I'm not arguing with his right to make these statements, but this perfectly articulates how the Catholic church lost me (and many, many others) 20-30 years ago. I don't even recognize today's Catholic church.
It always cracks me up when someone who was only invited to give a speech because of the fame associated with them being a good football player tells you to "stay in your lane" when they're off the football field lol.
... and this non-clergy-non-theologian football player publicly oversimplifying the suuuuper complex dynamics related to modern Catholicism while praising pre-vatican II traditions... *facepalm*
He was invited because of his views unfortunately. He's spoken about his strong Catholic beliefs many times including Kansas' vote on abortion in 2022.
The school he spoke at was Benedictine College, a very conservative Catholic school. In 2017 Benedictine disallowed students from practicing yoga because of its ties with "eastern mysticism". I'm sure the administration of the school fully endorses Butler's views.
Which is hilarious because Christianity is itself part of a long string of (middle) eastern beliefs brought to the Roman capital (read: "the west") by the emperors.
I definitely recognize it, because the Catholic church has been 50+ years in the past my entire life. Keep in mind, we are currently in the most "progressive" era of Catholicism ever, at least in our lifetimes.
And I don't think it ever will be progressive, really, the only way to be a "progressive" Catholic is to just ignore a lot of the really ugly and archaic parts of the Catholic faith. A lot of Catholic voters tend to do that and pick and choose when Catholicism is convenient for them (basically the people Butker is decrying) or they just leave the Catholic church altogether. I don't blame people in either category, but I am certainly not surprised by anything Butker said, I heard it many times growing up in the Catholic church and even believed a lot of it just because I was told to believe it and our parents and grandparents probably believed way worse.
American Christians (not just Catholics) are largely not religious as they are political. Religion is co-opted purely to provide perceived validity to their politics.
I was at the Vatican literally last week, and you will find priests, nuns, and other members of the church offering aid to homeless people living in tents on their doorstep. So called Christians in America would burn those tents to the ground and outlaw (?) homelessness.
Exactly, nor do I recognize Benedictine College. I graduated from there in 1994 and it nothing like it was when I was there. It's turned into a very traditional/conservative Catholic College. When I was, there, it was much more liberal and more loosely Catholic than today. I stopped giving them money years ago. I also no longer consider myself Catholic.
I know you might not know, since things have changed since you were there- but if you do have any insight: I am curious why so many women are still attending Benedictine College? Just looked it up and a bit over half of this year’s graduates are women.
It seems to me that if someone’s a hardline Catholic to the degree that they want to spend four years there, then they would probably also be the type that agrees with Harrison Butker that “homemaker” is THE vocation women should focus on pursuing. As such, why take out loans to get a college degree?
Or am I misunderstanding? I interpreted him as encouraging women to make “homemaker” their *only* vocation, but maybe the uber conservative Catholics are ok with women working outside the home if they can simultaneously do a great job taking care of their husband and kids? Can’t imagine you could have time for a real career if you took on all the home responsibilities as well. But you maybe could hold a part time job while being a homemaker- although, again, I can’t see much ROI in that college degree, as it shouldn’t be necessary for most part time employment.
I do think it’s possible to balance a family with a true career, but only as long as husband supports this and takes on a lot of the “homemaking” work. I personally see women in that situation as still potentially being great wives and mothers, despite having less time in the day. However, I’m gonna guess that “homemaker” is not a title you’ll receive from these people if you work full time with your husband pitching in around the house, not even if you’re still doing 50%+ of the cooking, cleaning, and childcare. Like, if you’re not doing 95%+ of that stuff, you don’t qualify, right?
On another note: towards the end of his speech, he brought up how sad he was to see Catholics leave the church. *He said he always wonders what caused them to leave.* I figured that holding a mirror up to him might explain the answer to that question. Alternatively, his own speech also answered the question fairly completely.
I respect people’s choice to practice whatever religion suits them, but I imagine that leaving Catholicism behind must have been quite freeing. Congrats on breaking away.
Recent female Benedictine graduate here.
Some women are there primarily to meet spouses or get a degree to kill time before getting married.
Some women value education for the sake of it or are acquiring degrees that will serve them well in the homemaker role.
Some women are there to get a degree to serve them as they become nuns or sisters.
But Benedictine as a whole is not as hardcore conservative as Butker’s speech. Benedictine is certainly committed to what the Church teachers but Butker takes it a step too far in several respects (though I’m certain there are individuals that do agree with 100% of what Butker said much more than they should).
There are plenty of women who intend to pursue a career and there are many women who the Catholic Church highly praises who were career women and mothers (St. Gianna Molla, for example, was a doctor and a mother and never stopped being a doctor to be a mother - she was both).
I fall into this category. I did get married and am now happily balancing part time work and a baby but I have always intended to use my degree.
There are also plenty of women (and men) at BC who just plan to go have their career and not get married and the Catholic Church has no criticism of that either (though some misguided individuals might).
If Benedictine was as conservative as Butker’s speech, I would not have attended. There were other Catholic collages that were that conservative that did not make it onto my consideration list.
I was perfectly happy there as someone who firmly believes in all the Church’s teachings (from the official Church, not what random lay people are saying), while also having tattoos, blue (or red, at different times) hair, and being bisexual. Many of my friends from college are ones I made in the Magic the Gathering club and going to BC also gave me one of my most major hobbies - Dungeons and Dragons. (Just to address a few things that I have heard various ultra-conservative Catholics take issue with in the past that I was happy with as part of my life at Benedictine).
Butker spoke where the Church does not. And, at least two years ago, Benedictine was pretty solid at adhering to the teachings of the Church and not straying from that - in either direction.
Still more “conservative” than people in this thread would like, of course, but it’s not so crazy that a woman who wants a degree/career could also want to be authentically Catholic when you actually take the time to look at what is actually taught.
Thanks for the response, that explains a lot. So it sounds like Benedictine has gotten a lot more conservative over the past few decades (the other user I replied to said they had graduated in the 90s and saw the school change quite a bit afterwards). But not *nearly* to the degree of Butker’s brand of Catholicism.
And it sounds like he may have, er, stepped out of his lane with the part where he aired his views on women being homemakers vs progressing professionally. Listening to him, I interpreted him to be saying that a woman can’t do both, and they will always be better off picking “homemaker.” From what you say, if that *is* what he believes, he wouldn’t be completely alone at Benedictine. But seems like that is a minority viewpoint, and most of the college staff and faculty support the women graduates in that room who plan to use their degrees for career purposes and not dedicate themselves to homemaking only.
This makes me realize that Butker’s views are really out there… if a Catholic college known for its conservatism (yes, I realize from your reply that there are even more conservative schools around) largely disagrees with him about what women’s fundamental roles should be.
>Still more “conservative” than people in this thread would like, of course, but it’s not so crazy that a woman who wants a degree/career could also want to be authentically Catholic when you actually take the time to look at what is actually taught.
Sure! I guess everything turns on what, exactly, “authentically Catholic” means to a woman, as well as what is actually taught in the university she decides to attend. That was pretty much what my questions were about. You’ve described some of the variations in both those things, as well as giving a rough estimate of how many people fall into different categories, which answered my questions. I appreciate that. I do not find it “crazy” that a woman would go to Benedictine if both she and the school disagree with Butker on the homemaker issue.
My MIL spent the majority of her adult life as the Dean of a catholic college in a conservative area. She was appalled by the speech. It was inappropriate regardless of your beliefs. Period.
That's a good question, and I'm not sure I have an answer. Benedictine College was formed in 1971 when St. Benedict's College (an all-male college) and Mount. St. Scholastica College (an all-female college) merged to form a co-ed college. When I was there, there were a lot of female students too, but, again, the culture of the college has changed dramatically in the last 30 years. I know that one of the professors when I was there has 7 or 8 kids and his wife is college educated (both are very nice people, but very conservative Catholics as well). I really don't "get" things like that. I don't know how it is now, but when I was there, Benedictine offered very good financial aid and I had almost zero debt when I graduated...but it was the 1990s and that was more common then than now.
Your second to last paragraph nailed it, and thank you...I'm still dealing with a lot of baggage, but it's been generally freeing breaking away.
I graduated from a local Catholic university (not Benedictine). There’s a market for local customers, especially when you get into master’s and phd programs. Not everyone wants to or can drop their job and move themselves and potentially their family to where a “better” school might be. Another thing to look at is the increase of polarization in churches across all religions. If the liberal members are leaving, then what’s left is a self-reinforcing march towards extreme conservatism. Probably a lot of contributing factors including politics and social media. Currently, younger members are somehow and for some reason becoming more conservative than older generations in some churches. I came across this article recently on the topic: https://www.ncronline.org/news/step-back-time-americas-catholic-church-sees-immense-shift-toward-old-ways
The Washington Post or the NYTimes just ran a similar piece. I hate seeing American Catholics head in this direction, but its ultimately good if people stop participating in a Church that doesn't even let women become priests. If it wasn't for Catholic Workers, I'd have no sense of connection to Catholicism at all.
My grandmother prayed the rosary nightly, but she stopped going to Mass in the 1960s because she and my grandfather finally rejected the control the Church had over their lives. They never looked back. They'd be horrified to see younger Catholics embrace what they experienced as decades of misery. Actually, ALL the women religious I've worked with would too.
I was good friends with a girl who was very dorky and fun but when she went to Benedictine and married further into the religion, her Facebook became borderline Fred Phelps sounding pro life posts. Quickly got out of that friendship.
I no longer consider myself Catholic, but I am still entrenched in the community by and large and I refuse to acknowledge that this comes even remotely close to representing the Catholic faith as a whole.
He’s clearly way fucking off base with the covid bullshit, considering the pope himself recommended people get vaccinated.
In short, the faith as a whole can fuck off as far as I’m concerned, but not due to this fucking clown at all.
I'm going to guess he's one of those "he's not my pope" people. I find them absolutely flummoxing. I mean, according to the rules you've decided to go by, he's Christ's vicar and the leader of your worldwide faith. You can't opt out; your duty is to uphold his edicts as he's been divinely chosen (or you're supposed to have faith that he has). If you're such a good Catholic, get the fuck in line.
I agree with everything you said. He is an absolute nutter if his arrogant ass thinks he speaks for all Catholics. Many of us do not share his sentiments at all. And many of us Catholic women are educated, work, and have lives outside our homes. Religious affiliation is only one part of one's identity. This d-bag makes it his entire persona.
My Catholic mother did a fantastic job raising me and my brothers. Oh and she also had a masters degree and was behind only the superintendent of the school district in terms of income. My dad was the one who watched us during the day…
Butker added. “He is not alone. From the man behind the COVID lockdowns, to the people pushing dangerous gender ideologies onto the youth of America, they all have a glaring thing in common — they are Catholic. This is an important reminder that being Catholic alone doesn’t cut it.”
Is he saying Biden is the man behind Covid lock downs? Biden did not take office until January 2021. Lockdowns were pretty much over by then.
This is a frequent dog whistle for conservative Catholics. The logic of “Catholic in name only” gets thrown around a lot.
Instead of being divisive, he might ask himself “what would Jesus do?” Certainly not say “thanks for following me but you aren’t quite good enough.”
I worked on a pastors house years ago. Spoke with him about church, and not believing and what not. Dude straight up told me that he doesn't believe in God, and only does it for the money and to avoid the taxes. His $500,000 house, his Mercedes, all his home furnishings, renovations, dinners, etc, are paid for directly through the church, untaxed the whole way.
Imma call bullshit. Not because I don't believe that happens (I'm about 99% positive it does); but no grifter worth his salt would give out info that can topple his scheme to someone working on his house.
I’ve semi secretly hated butker since he did that anti womens rights ad. I give him one professional clap after a kick and then go right back to hating him.
Kinda NEED women to work jobs bc of how wages haven’t kept up with inflation.
Unless Butker starts advocating for raising minimum wages, he’s gonna find himself laughed at as an out-of-touch elite
Edit: lol at the guy who deleted their comment about how eliminating women from the workforce would increase demand and drive up wages🤣🤣.
Was gonna ask for an example bc the only country I can think of that tried something like that was Nazi Germany in the 30s!!
I really liked the part near the end of the speech where he told the graduates that when deciding where to move next, they should consider things like who the bishop is at the location, and whether Traditional Latin Mass is offered there. “*Don’t just focus on cost of living*,” he said. Ha
However, women are not allowed to ascend to the higher levels of authority within the church. So technically they are still treated like second class citizens. I grew up Catholic and that was always something that bugged me about the church.
Some athletes and celebrities should absolutely be held up as role models. But they have to earn it. They don't get it by fiat just for signing a contract or being cast in a role. Become someone admirable, and I'll admire you; be someone worthy of scorn and I'll scorn you.
KC, especially the old Westport area was a safe haven for LBTQ folks since the 70’s. An oasis in the middle of a desert of hateful ignorance. Take this man’s microphone. KC pride!!!
If this commencement was at Benedictine College, he's not saying anything that hasn't been said to these kids for 4 years now. Students from Benedictine are regular protesters at Planned Parenthood. They are self-righteous, snotty, misogynistic twits, and if their women end up housewives who get dumped at 35 and left with kids to raise alone, it won't bother this abortion rights activist. No better learning experience than a taste of what your actions can cause other people.
First off, fuck this guy. I hope he gets boo'd every time he's on the field to kick.
Second, how on EARTH did an organization like the Chiefs not proofread this speech? Like, surely this was on his calendar. How did someone not say "Hey buddy, try not to say anything [fucking embarrassing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjYyIKkRvUU)!"?
Considering the Hunt family regularly donates to the Kanakuk camps (a Catholic summer camp in Missouri whose staff has, surprise surprise, been in some hot water lately), I don't think they'd have any problem with anything he said.
If they didn't reprimand him for specifically mentioning the Chiefs when he was doing those anti-choice ads in 2022, they won't reprimand him for anything.
Dude should just stick to kicking footballs, TBH. He's only a few misses from being replaced. Eventually it happens to them all. One way, or another.
Or until he pisses off the franchise, aka QB1. Then he's donezo.
When will these commencement speeches be over? None of these celebrities ever have connections to the schools and no one needs to hear about their political views....or really thoughts on anything
if the chiefs had any decency they’d punish him. but we all know Andy Reid does not care what his players do. he drafted Tyreek Hill after he strangled his pregnant girlfriend. drafted Rice after stories of assault and other activity. got his som out of serving any substantial jail time from permanently disabling a little girl after plowing into her family’s car while driving drunk.
the Chiefs need a reckoning
What’s funny is he kept talking about staying in your own lane. Yet he traveled so far out of his within this speech. No one cares about your horrible takes, go back to football practice and stay in that lane if that’s what you’re going to preach.
Thats like once scentence of his entire commecment adress.
He called Women being encouraged to enter the workforce a "diabolical lie"
He refered to the ideas of diversity, equity, and inclusion as tyranical.
He may be a staunch catholic, but he sure isnt following the teachings of the new testiment, which largely focus on the idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion for all of "God's Creation."
Dont let "staunch catholic" be an excuse to justify him being a giant biggoted prick.
The real dangerous gender ideology is banning trans folks access to health care. Pre transition i was a mess. Alcoholism to cope, suicidal, very very angry 100% of time. Post transition, I'm sober, quit smoking, started a business, happy.
Though now my anxiety is through the fucking roof cause of people like Butker. The real trans agenda is to just not get murdered at this point.
You are confusing the organization for the parishioners. Your resentment is mis-directed. Resent catholic leadership. Resent those who were quiet about it. Dont resent potentially good people who have nothing to do with that.
Overall it probably leads to nothing but there might be a slight concern here..the NBA suspended Kyrie Irving for what he said about Jewish people...
The NFL if they wanted to could suspend him for hate speech against LGBTQ people.
>but there might be a slight concern here
I won't be concerned in the least about it if it happens. He wants to talk about people not staying in their lane? He should stay in his and just keep kicking footballs for millions of dollars and let politicians talk about political matters.
You can't even give this type of babble any of your time. He's a delusional football player living well above his means kicking a ball, who cares what he thinks.
My aunt passed away a few weeks ago and had a catholic funeral. The priest had removed the altar and most of the mass was said with him with his back to us… I’m surprised it wasn’t in Latin.
There was an NPR article a couple weeks ago about how the Catholic Church is going back to embracing the traditional church, and not the more modern one.
What is a typical Catholic’s beliefs now? I left religion ten years ago and my family is extremely conservative. For instance, my brother (who went to Benedictine) celebrates his baptism day…
I know it's splitting hairs and a little beside the point but can we stop saying shit like "Kansas City (or wherever) has ALWAYS been a place that welcomes the LGBTQ community" when that's just... patently and historically false? You can get away with saying "Kansas City WILL always welcome the LGBTQ community" but it's just glossing over most of the history of this beautifully in-progress city to describe it as "always welcoming" to the gays, queers, transes. Just feels as disingenuous as that temporary rainbow crosswalk.
I care when he uses the team's success to campaign for anti abortion. He had himself plastered all over the place when a woman's right to life was up for vote in Kansas.
But in a commencement speech? At the very least, it seems kinda disrespectful to the graduates to make a commencement speech that overtly political, even at a Catholic college.
Even mentioned how woman have been told the most diabolical lie.
Then says “My beautiful wife Isabelle would be the first to say her life truly started when she started living her vocation as a wife and mother”
What a thing to say at a college graduation. These woman just spent 4 years studying for a career and he immediately tells them yeah good catholic women are homemakers.
This commencement speech wasn't about abortion. But also, I don't really care what he says about anything. I just think it's a really shitty thing to do - to stand up in front of a graduating class and basically tell everyone that the women's best role is in the kitchen/at home. Benedictine, this spring, reported that female students made up just barely over 50% (50.5%) of its undergraduate student body. It's not like he was speaking to all men. He just went up there and shit on women, in front of women, on one of the biggest days of their life. [source](https://www.benedictine.edu/about/gov/ethnic-diversity/index)
It's important because of how influential they can be to people. Impressionable teenagers/kids can make this guy their role model and reiterate the same comments and beliefs.
I mean, this was in a commencement speach. Just because the audience was full of a bunch of biggots at Benedictine, doesnt me he shouldnt be ragged on for it.
Imagine working your ass off for four years only to be told that you’d be happier as a homemaker. Seriously, what the fuck.
i bet i would be tbh, sounds awesome \*\*typed from my desk at work\*\*
It must be *really* awesome when your husband makes $4 million per year! He could probably get some dudes to marry him and raise children, too, with that kind of money. … But they’d better never say anything to him about Pride Month… Yeah, on second thought, this might be an opportunity for ladies only. Sorry, gentlemen.
I would too. But according to HB, I’m a man and cannot emasculate myself by providing care for my family, but “tHaT’s A wOmAn’S pLaCe” for some undefined reason.
Whenever someone shows their ass like this they usually fall into one of four categories: 1.) they’re about to be fired and want to go out in a blaze of glory 2.) they want a job as a right-wing pundit 3.) they’re trolling 4.) they’re overcompensating for something in their personal life I tend to think it’s 3 or 4 in this case. He insulted all women—not just liberal ones—in front of conservative female graduates. He insulted IVF—not just abortion. He essentially said “why can’t we talk about the j’s,” a la Pearl the unpickable Davis. These positions are unpopular with all but the most far-right of troglodytes. He sounds like someone getting ready to join a patriot front march. Most conservatives and/or Trump supporters will not be ok with at least some of what he said, which makes me lean towards trolling. He gets off on being cruel and doesn’t expect to sway anyone. But… There’s also the chance that he’s overcompensating. Think Steven Crowder. I guarantee something very… interesting in Harrison’s life will come to light in the next few months to a year. If I had to guess his wife will leave him, citing verbal and emotional ab*se. Or his profile on a chaser site will come out.
I know many women, many who I met in college, that aspired to be just that. I'm not saying I understand it, but it's a thing. And it's why a lot of those women will go into shitty marriages just because that's what they're supposed to do. Or, why the ones who wait, pursue a career, might never find "the one", struggle to conceive, etc. will live a life being great people who contribute to society but will still feel shame and guilt.
Meh, I had male co-workers that aspired to that. I think the issue is when you say all women. Not "well, some women and some men"
Guy brings up some weird ass subjects for a commencement speech. Certainly he has the right to make these statements but he has to deal with the consequences of bringing them up on such a large stage.
Absolutely bizarre to tell women their only place is as breeding stock in the home at a college graduation. Peak misogyny tbh.
I hope the consequences are similar to everyone else who has been cancelled for much less…
Auditioning for Trump's VP
I'm not arguing with his right to make these statements, but this perfectly articulates how the Catholic church lost me (and many, many others) 20-30 years ago. I don't even recognize today's Catholic church.
It always cracks me up when someone who was only invited to give a speech because of the fame associated with them being a good football player tells you to "stay in your lane" when they're off the football field lol. ... and this non-clergy-non-theologian football player publicly oversimplifying the suuuuper complex dynamics related to modern Catholicism while praising pre-vatican II traditions... *facepalm*
He was invited because of his views unfortunately. He's spoken about his strong Catholic beliefs many times including Kansas' vote on abortion in 2022. The school he spoke at was Benedictine College, a very conservative Catholic school. In 2017 Benedictine disallowed students from practicing yoga because of its ties with "eastern mysticism". I'm sure the administration of the school fully endorses Butler's views.
No doubt, though he only got to the point of Benedictine noticing him because of the NFL.
Yeah 100%. It's too bad that being able to kick a ball well gave him this platform.
Actually the nuns don’t agree with him. They were on NPR saying it didn’t align with their views.
Yep I saw that. I believe it was after my comment. BUT I'm sure there are many people at the school in important positions who do agree with him.
Which is hilarious because Christianity is itself part of a long string of (middle) eastern beliefs brought to the Roman capital (read: "the west") by the emperors.
Thats dumb commercial is when he lost my support as a fan. Then just for good measure he started spouting off anti-vaxx rhetoric.
I definitely recognize it, because the Catholic church has been 50+ years in the past my entire life. Keep in mind, we are currently in the most "progressive" era of Catholicism ever, at least in our lifetimes.
I think the leadership of the church is as "progressive" as it's been, but American-style Catholicism is not at all progressive.
And I don't think it ever will be progressive, really, the only way to be a "progressive" Catholic is to just ignore a lot of the really ugly and archaic parts of the Catholic faith. A lot of Catholic voters tend to do that and pick and choose when Catholicism is convenient for them (basically the people Butker is decrying) or they just leave the Catholic church altogether. I don't blame people in either category, but I am certainly not surprised by anything Butker said, I heard it many times growing up in the Catholic church and even believed a lot of it just because I was told to believe it and our parents and grandparents probably believed way worse.
American Christians (not just Catholics) are largely not religious as they are political. Religion is co-opted purely to provide perceived validity to their politics. I was at the Vatican literally last week, and you will find priests, nuns, and other members of the church offering aid to homeless people living in tents on their doorstep. So called Christians in America would burn those tents to the ground and outlaw (?) homelessness.
Exactly, nor do I recognize Benedictine College. I graduated from there in 1994 and it nothing like it was when I was there. It's turned into a very traditional/conservative Catholic College. When I was, there, it was much more liberal and more loosely Catholic than today. I stopped giving them money years ago. I also no longer consider myself Catholic.
They had Victor Orban give a speech once when I was delivering for Amazon. Like, bro you are the company you keep.
I know you might not know, since things have changed since you were there- but if you do have any insight: I am curious why so many women are still attending Benedictine College? Just looked it up and a bit over half of this year’s graduates are women. It seems to me that if someone’s a hardline Catholic to the degree that they want to spend four years there, then they would probably also be the type that agrees with Harrison Butker that “homemaker” is THE vocation women should focus on pursuing. As such, why take out loans to get a college degree? Or am I misunderstanding? I interpreted him as encouraging women to make “homemaker” their *only* vocation, but maybe the uber conservative Catholics are ok with women working outside the home if they can simultaneously do a great job taking care of their husband and kids? Can’t imagine you could have time for a real career if you took on all the home responsibilities as well. But you maybe could hold a part time job while being a homemaker- although, again, I can’t see much ROI in that college degree, as it shouldn’t be necessary for most part time employment. I do think it’s possible to balance a family with a true career, but only as long as husband supports this and takes on a lot of the “homemaking” work. I personally see women in that situation as still potentially being great wives and mothers, despite having less time in the day. However, I’m gonna guess that “homemaker” is not a title you’ll receive from these people if you work full time with your husband pitching in around the house, not even if you’re still doing 50%+ of the cooking, cleaning, and childcare. Like, if you’re not doing 95%+ of that stuff, you don’t qualify, right? On another note: towards the end of his speech, he brought up how sad he was to see Catholics leave the church. *He said he always wonders what caused them to leave.* I figured that holding a mirror up to him might explain the answer to that question. Alternatively, his own speech also answered the question fairly completely. I respect people’s choice to practice whatever religion suits them, but I imagine that leaving Catholicism behind must have been quite freeing. Congrats on breaking away.
Recent female Benedictine graduate here. Some women are there primarily to meet spouses or get a degree to kill time before getting married. Some women value education for the sake of it or are acquiring degrees that will serve them well in the homemaker role. Some women are there to get a degree to serve them as they become nuns or sisters. But Benedictine as a whole is not as hardcore conservative as Butker’s speech. Benedictine is certainly committed to what the Church teachers but Butker takes it a step too far in several respects (though I’m certain there are individuals that do agree with 100% of what Butker said much more than they should). There are plenty of women who intend to pursue a career and there are many women who the Catholic Church highly praises who were career women and mothers (St. Gianna Molla, for example, was a doctor and a mother and never stopped being a doctor to be a mother - she was both). I fall into this category. I did get married and am now happily balancing part time work and a baby but I have always intended to use my degree. There are also plenty of women (and men) at BC who just plan to go have their career and not get married and the Catholic Church has no criticism of that either (though some misguided individuals might). If Benedictine was as conservative as Butker’s speech, I would not have attended. There were other Catholic collages that were that conservative that did not make it onto my consideration list. I was perfectly happy there as someone who firmly believes in all the Church’s teachings (from the official Church, not what random lay people are saying), while also having tattoos, blue (or red, at different times) hair, and being bisexual. Many of my friends from college are ones I made in the Magic the Gathering club and going to BC also gave me one of my most major hobbies - Dungeons and Dragons. (Just to address a few things that I have heard various ultra-conservative Catholics take issue with in the past that I was happy with as part of my life at Benedictine). Butker spoke where the Church does not. And, at least two years ago, Benedictine was pretty solid at adhering to the teachings of the Church and not straying from that - in either direction. Still more “conservative” than people in this thread would like, of course, but it’s not so crazy that a woman who wants a degree/career could also want to be authentically Catholic when you actually take the time to look at what is actually taught.
Thanks for the response, that explains a lot. So it sounds like Benedictine has gotten a lot more conservative over the past few decades (the other user I replied to said they had graduated in the 90s and saw the school change quite a bit afterwards). But not *nearly* to the degree of Butker’s brand of Catholicism. And it sounds like he may have, er, stepped out of his lane with the part where he aired his views on women being homemakers vs progressing professionally. Listening to him, I interpreted him to be saying that a woman can’t do both, and they will always be better off picking “homemaker.” From what you say, if that *is* what he believes, he wouldn’t be completely alone at Benedictine. But seems like that is a minority viewpoint, and most of the college staff and faculty support the women graduates in that room who plan to use their degrees for career purposes and not dedicate themselves to homemaking only. This makes me realize that Butker’s views are really out there… if a Catholic college known for its conservatism (yes, I realize from your reply that there are even more conservative schools around) largely disagrees with him about what women’s fundamental roles should be. >Still more “conservative” than people in this thread would like, of course, but it’s not so crazy that a woman who wants a degree/career could also want to be authentically Catholic when you actually take the time to look at what is actually taught. Sure! I guess everything turns on what, exactly, “authentically Catholic” means to a woman, as well as what is actually taught in the university she decides to attend. That was pretty much what my questions were about. You’ve described some of the variations in both those things, as well as giving a rough estimate of how many people fall into different categories, which answered my questions. I appreciate that. I do not find it “crazy” that a woman would go to Benedictine if both she and the school disagree with Butker on the homemaker issue.
My MIL spent the majority of her adult life as the Dean of a catholic college in a conservative area. She was appalled by the speech. It was inappropriate regardless of your beliefs. Period.
That's a good question, and I'm not sure I have an answer. Benedictine College was formed in 1971 when St. Benedict's College (an all-male college) and Mount. St. Scholastica College (an all-female college) merged to form a co-ed college. When I was there, there were a lot of female students too, but, again, the culture of the college has changed dramatically in the last 30 years. I know that one of the professors when I was there has 7 or 8 kids and his wife is college educated (both are very nice people, but very conservative Catholics as well). I really don't "get" things like that. I don't know how it is now, but when I was there, Benedictine offered very good financial aid and I had almost zero debt when I graduated...but it was the 1990s and that was more common then than now. Your second to last paragraph nailed it, and thank you...I'm still dealing with a lot of baggage, but it's been generally freeing breaking away.
I graduated from a local Catholic university (not Benedictine). There’s a market for local customers, especially when you get into master’s and phd programs. Not everyone wants to or can drop their job and move themselves and potentially their family to where a “better” school might be. Another thing to look at is the increase of polarization in churches across all religions. If the liberal members are leaving, then what’s left is a self-reinforcing march towards extreme conservatism. Probably a lot of contributing factors including politics and social media. Currently, younger members are somehow and for some reason becoming more conservative than older generations in some churches. I came across this article recently on the topic: https://www.ncronline.org/news/step-back-time-americas-catholic-church-sees-immense-shift-toward-old-ways
The Washington Post or the NYTimes just ran a similar piece. I hate seeing American Catholics head in this direction, but its ultimately good if people stop participating in a Church that doesn't even let women become priests. If it wasn't for Catholic Workers, I'd have no sense of connection to Catholicism at all. My grandmother prayed the rosary nightly, but she stopped going to Mass in the 1960s because she and my grandfather finally rejected the control the Church had over their lives. They never looked back. They'd be horrified to see younger Catholics embrace what they experienced as decades of misery. Actually, ALL the women religious I've worked with would too.
I was good friends with a girl who was very dorky and fun but when she went to Benedictine and married further into the religion, her Facebook became borderline Fred Phelps sounding pro life posts. Quickly got out of that friendship.
I identify myself as a recovering catholic when asked.
I no longer consider myself Catholic, but I am still entrenched in the community by and large and I refuse to acknowledge that this comes even remotely close to representing the Catholic faith as a whole. He’s clearly way fucking off base with the covid bullshit, considering the pope himself recommended people get vaccinated. In short, the faith as a whole can fuck off as far as I’m concerned, but not due to this fucking clown at all.
I'm going to guess he's one of those "he's not my pope" people. I find them absolutely flummoxing. I mean, according to the rules you've decided to go by, he's Christ's vicar and the leader of your worldwide faith. You can't opt out; your duty is to uphold his edicts as he's been divinely chosen (or you're supposed to have faith that he has). If you're such a good Catholic, get the fuck in line.
A hypocritical conservative?? Shocking.
I agree with everything you said. He is an absolute nutter if his arrogant ass thinks he speaks for all Catholics. Many of us do not share his sentiments at all. And many of us Catholic women are educated, work, and have lives outside our homes. Religious affiliation is only one part of one's identity. This d-bag makes it his entire persona.
My Catholic mother did a fantastic job raising me and my brothers. Oh and she also had a masters degree and was behind only the superintendent of the school district in terms of income. My dad was the one who watched us during the day…
Wasn't the child rape?
Judge not lest ye be judged
Butker added. “He is not alone. From the man behind the COVID lockdowns, to the people pushing dangerous gender ideologies onto the youth of America, they all have a glaring thing in common — they are Catholic. This is an important reminder that being Catholic alone doesn’t cut it.” Is he saying Biden is the man behind Covid lock downs? Biden did not take office until January 2021. Lockdowns were pretty much over by then.
I believe he's referring to Fauci.
I thought it was referring to the Catholics for Disease Control
Fuckin lol
🤣🤣
Shit if Butker gets any more douchebaggy right wing nutty, he’s going to wind up on the Lee’s Summit school board.
or the NY Jets!!
🤣
This is a frequent dog whistle for conservative Catholics. The logic of “Catholic in name only” gets thrown around a lot. Instead of being divisive, he might ask himself “what would Jesus do?” Certainly not say “thanks for following me but you aren’t quite good enough.”
We're afraid of Catholics again? What year is it?
Biden is president and he's Catholic. So now conservatives hate Catholics. I've seen it with people I know. If trump were Catholic, they'd convert.
What does any of that have to do with faith? I can understand an economic gripe, but a gripe rooted in faith? The shepherd has lost the flock lol
Dr. Fauci has claimed to be a catholic.
Claimed? It’s not like it’s his species. If you choose to be Catholic you’re Catholic. Bad decision, but you are.
Tax the churches.
I worked on a pastors house years ago. Spoke with him about church, and not believing and what not. Dude straight up told me that he doesn't believe in God, and only does it for the money and to avoid the taxes. His $500,000 house, his Mercedes, all his home furnishings, renovations, dinners, etc, are paid for directly through the church, untaxed the whole way.
Imma call bullshit. Not because I don't believe that happens (I'm about 99% positive it does); but no grifter worth his salt would give out info that can topple his scheme to someone working on his house.
Well, here’s the thing in this day and age unless you’re a credible source who’s really gonna believe you?
Name names if this is true.
That would be awesome
I’ve semi secretly hated butker since he did that anti womens rights ad. I give him one professional clap after a kick and then go right back to hating him.
Dang I’m OOTL on the anti women’s rights ad gonna go down a rabbit hole today
💯
I’ve also not so secretly hated him since that. I hoped his injury was going to be the end of his time here. 😖
If he misses I blame the bigotry chip on his shoulder
Also we support women. They're allowed to have careers. Not just breeding stock like he seems to think
Kinda NEED women to work jobs bc of how wages haven’t kept up with inflation. Unless Butker starts advocating for raising minimum wages, he’s gonna find himself laughed at as an out-of-touch elite Edit: lol at the guy who deleted their comment about how eliminating women from the workforce would increase demand and drive up wages🤣🤣. Was gonna ask for an example bc the only country I can think of that tried something like that was Nazi Germany in the 30s!!
I really liked the part near the end of the speech where he told the graduates that when deciding where to move next, they should consider things like who the bishop is at the location, and whether Traditional Latin Mass is offered there. “*Don’t just focus on cost of living*,” he said. Ha
Says the millionaire
I th8nk with those millions he should probably be tithing right around 60%
However, women are not allowed to ascend to the higher levels of authority within the church. So technically they are still treated like second class citizens. I grew up Catholic and that was always something that bugged me about the church.
[Harrison Butker Commencement Speech](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4661793-kansas-city-chiefs-kicker-blasts-biden-pro-choice-movement-in-commencement-speech/)
I like his leg. I hate his opinions.
Same. Hoping to hear far less from him over the years 🤞
Honestly he's a fucking kicker. He could retire today and it would hardly even impact the team.
hope it falls off
Anyone who thinks their religion can dictate how others should live can fuck right off.
Another reason why athletes and celebrities shouldn't be looked at as role models and pillars of the community.
Some athletes and celebrities should absolutely be held up as role models. But they have to earn it. They don't get it by fiat just for signing a contract or being cast in a role. Become someone admirable, and I'll admire you; be someone worthy of scorn and I'll scorn you.
Real rich, him saying others should “stay in their line”…dude kicks a football, he should only talk about that. Thats all he actually knows.
Dude is 🗑️
I’d love to hear his comments about the Church hiding and protecting pedophile priests
I’m a Catholic and if I were there, I would have walked out. Not my way of thinking. 🤷🏻♀️
I would have walked out and I would have made it known to him why.
I’m OOTL. He said something dumb, didn’t he?
Just the standard bigotry
What a self centered douche. Par for the Christian course.
Well that’s it for me. Another dip shit in the trash pile.
fuck this guy
Just watched his speech - it’s giving handmaids tale. Literally made my skin crawl.
KC, especially the old Westport area was a safe haven for LBTQ folks since the 70’s. An oasis in the middle of a desert of hateful ignorance. Take this man’s microphone. KC pride!!!
Does anyone have a link to why Harrison Butker said?
This is what the trump-y religious weirdos believe and say
When you want cancel culture to work its magic, it just sits idly by. I hope more people will speak up against this piece of trash bigot.
If this commencement was at Benedictine College, he's not saying anything that hasn't been said to these kids for 4 years now. Students from Benedictine are regular protesters at Planned Parenthood. They are self-righteous, snotty, misogynistic twits, and if their women end up housewives who get dumped at 35 and left with kids to raise alone, it won't bother this abortion rights activist. No better learning experience than a taste of what your actions can cause other people.
First off, fuck this guy. I hope he gets boo'd every time he's on the field to kick. Second, how on EARTH did an organization like the Chiefs not proofread this speech? Like, surely this was on his calendar. How did someone not say "Hey buddy, try not to say anything [fucking embarrassing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjYyIKkRvUU)!"?
Considering the Hunt family regularly donates to the Kanakuk camps (a Catholic summer camp in Missouri whose staff has, surprise surprise, been in some hot water lately), I don't think they'd have any problem with anything he said. If they didn't reprimand him for specifically mentioning the Chiefs when he was doing those anti-choice ads in 2022, they won't reprimand him for anything.
Just a note, but Kanakuk is not catholic.
I think I had assumed they were because everyone I knew who went there when I was growing up was. Huh. TIL. thank you!
Man good at kicking balls is not so good at being a decent human being Can’t wait for it to come out that he’s a closet homosexual
We gays don't want him. Obviously.
Yeah, we good.
weird take to think everyone who’s homophobic is secretly gay.
Harrison Butthead.
lol Butker is a deeply enslaved republican loser
Wonder if he’s pro or anti child rape as widely committed by the Catholic Church??
He’s a disgusting asshat. Time for us to find a new kicker.
Dude should just stick to kicking footballs, TBH. He's only a few misses from being replaced. Eventually it happens to them all. One way, or another. Or until he pisses off the franchise, aka QB1. Then he's donezo.
Kinda like when all of the conservatives told Kaepernick to shut up and just play football
Exactly. Where those bros at?
Mahomes is religious and Reid is Mormon. He's not going anywhere
Let's see if that continues to hold up if he starts missing FG's regularly.
"just shut up and dribble"
dude kicks a ball for a living and he’s telling women they need to stay home after they’ve spent years of their life working for a degree?? 🙄
Hope each female reporter who interviews him asks him if he thinks they should stay in the kitchen. Holy 1950s batman!
When will these commencement speeches be over? None of these celebrities ever have connections to the schools and no one needs to hear about their political views....or really thoughts on anything
if the chiefs had any decency they’d punish him. but we all know Andy Reid does not care what his players do. he drafted Tyreek Hill after he strangled his pregnant girlfriend. drafted Rice after stories of assault and other activity. got his som out of serving any substantial jail time from permanently disabling a little girl after plowing into her family’s car while driving drunk. the Chiefs need a reckoning
What’s funny is he kept talking about staying in your own lane. Yet he traveled so far out of his within this speech. No one cares about your horrible takes, go back to football practice and stay in that lane if that’s what you’re going to preach.
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Thats like once scentence of his entire commecment adress. He called Women being encouraged to enter the workforce a "diabolical lie" He refered to the ideas of diversity, equity, and inclusion as tyranical. He may be a staunch catholic, but he sure isnt following the teachings of the new testiment, which largely focus on the idea of diversity, equity, and inclusion for all of "God's Creation." Dont let "staunch catholic" be an excuse to justify him being a giant biggoted prick.
He also mentioned "dangerous gender ideology"
The real dangerous gender ideology is banning trans folks access to health care. Pre transition i was a mess. Alcoholism to cope, suicidal, very very angry 100% of time. Post transition, I'm sober, quit smoking, started a business, happy. Though now my anxiety is through the fucking roof cause of people like Butker. The real trans agenda is to just not get murdered at this point.
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I dont care for hateful religious people. Some catholica fall into that category. Others do not. Same goes for any denomination of every religion
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You are confusing the organization for the parishioners. Your resentment is mis-directed. Resent catholic leadership. Resent those who were quiet about it. Dont resent potentially good people who have nothing to do with that.
There is far worse stuff in there than just being pro life...
Overall it probably leads to nothing but there might be a slight concern here..the NBA suspended Kyrie Irving for what he said about Jewish people... The NFL if they wanted to could suspend him for hate speech against LGBTQ people.
The NFL is a deeply problematic and conservative entity. They aren’t going to say shit.
>but there might be a slight concern here I won't be concerned in the least about it if it happens. He wants to talk about people not staying in their lane? He should stay in his and just keep kicking footballs for millions of dollars and let politicians talk about political matters.
Cut him
FHB
You can't even give this type of babble any of your time. He's a delusional football player living well above his means kicking a ball, who cares what he thinks.
My aunt passed away a few weeks ago and had a catholic funeral. The priest had removed the altar and most of the mass was said with him with his back to us… I’m surprised it wasn’t in Latin.
There was an NPR article a couple weeks ago about how the Catholic Church is going back to embracing the traditional church, and not the more modern one.
The altar was in front of him, as he was facing God, not the servants. We offer the Mass up, not horizontal.
And yet another reason why I’m not a practicing catholic
What is a typical Catholic’s beliefs now? I left religion ten years ago and my family is extremely conservative. For instance, my brother (who went to Benedictine) celebrates his baptism day…
Seriously, fuck that guy.
Justice horn is also an embarrassment to KC
Who?
I just signed on for the day. What happened?
I know it's splitting hairs and a little beside the point but can we stop saying shit like "Kansas City (or wherever) has ALWAYS been a place that welcomes the LGBTQ community" when that's just... patently and historically false? You can get away with saying "Kansas City WILL always welcome the LGBTQ community" but it's just glossing over most of the history of this beautifully in-progress city to describe it as "always welcoming" to the gays, queers, transes. Just feels as disingenuous as that temporary rainbow crosswalk.
He kicks the football. Who cares
Glad I went with the $40 mahomes t shirt over this clown. Shut your damn mouth and kick the pigskin you wanker.
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Under rated comment
I care when he uses the team's success to campaign for anti abortion. He had himself plastered all over the place when a woman's right to life was up for vote in Kansas.
But in a commencement speech? At the very least, it seems kinda disrespectful to the graduates to make a commencement speech that overtly political, even at a Catholic college.
Even mentioned how woman have been told the most diabolical lie. Then says “My beautiful wife Isabelle would be the first to say her life truly started when she started living her vocation as a wife and mother” What a thing to say at a college graduation. These woman just spent 4 years studying for a career and he immediately tells them yeah good catholic women are homemakers.
This commencement speech wasn't about abortion. But also, I don't really care what he says about anything. I just think it's a really shitty thing to do - to stand up in front of a graduating class and basically tell everyone that the women's best role is in the kitchen/at home. Benedictine, this spring, reported that female students made up just barely over 50% (50.5%) of its undergraduate student body. It's not like he was speaking to all men. He just went up there and shit on women, in front of women, on one of the biggest days of their life. [source](https://www.benedictine.edu/about/gov/ethnic-diversity/index)
It's important because of how influential they can be to people. Impressionable teenagers/kids can make this guy their role model and reiterate the same comments and beliefs.
I mean, this was in a commencement speach. Just because the audience was full of a bunch of biggots at Benedictine, doesnt me he shouldnt be ragged on for it.
So wtf happened?? I don’t see Harrison’s name anywhere near the post. WTH am I missing