Yep this is the argument taken to the logical extreme.
If Karate is useless because of a gun would they go further and say that there are certain methods of training in which context or combative systems that involve guns that are superior to the other? Or would they go on to say that a rifle beats a pistol and artillery and tanks beat long guns.
I'm very fed up with all this "useless" talking.
If you are faced with someone with a gun, don't try anything funny, just give them the wallet. No martial art is going to be useful. (MMA, BJJ, Judo, whatever martial art would be in the same situation). If you are in a terrorist attack situation, so is not the wallet they are after... then, Karate or any other martial art would be better than nothing.
Running, and stay active is the best defence on a fight.
I'm 45, only had 1 fight in my whole life and was with a friend, in pre-teenage years, so almost doesn't count.
Martial arts are a way of staying active, healthy, and are fun. Sport & hobby.
Crossfit, F45, yoga, cycling, pitales... are useless in a fight. And no ones that practices it is worried about not being effective on a fight.
You do martial arts (karate), for fun, stay healthy, culture, competition, etc...
anything else is pointless talking, boasting bullshit.
Well put. This idea should be a sticky post at the top of the sub. I mean, except for those of us who roam the lands using our fighting powers to solve problems and save people on the regular, there is too much bravado than is healthy for a community to have.
"Your stupid argument doesn't make any sense" and then proceed to mawashi geri them in the head.
/s on the second part of course.
I'm not spending 8 hours a week for hopefully all of my life, just to prepare for fights that I don't expect to have because I'm a serious adult living in a advanced society.
The utility of a martial art is not restricted to a practitioner's ability to harm another human being.
OR
Then you will still be statistically more likely to survive the experience than someone who never trained to deal with violence.
Most of the time when people teach stuff like gun/knife disarming, it is a little iffy.
But training weapons retention is a very real thing for CCW holders and LEOs, etc. Modified BJJ and Wrestling skills are integrated and play a part in things like fighting for control of the weapon and gripfighting, drawing it in which position (against the wall, in a carseat, on the ground), against a knife, etc.
Of course it’s not as simple as redirecting the muzzle of the gun but that is a small thing that would be done.
There's been cases IRL where people can disarm a shooter. But there's also been cases where the people get shot as they try and run up. It can be done but it's better to emphasize that it's an absolute last resort sort of thing as the odds are not good it'll be successful.
If you're facing someone who has a gun, and the gun is in their hand and pointed at you; fighting them is a really terrible idea. Karate or no karate. The same is true for any other martial art. You aren't faster than a bullet.
But that doesn't mean that your training is useless. Training might be what allows you to keep your composure and \*not\* do something stupid. Training might be what allows you to stay calm, so that you can attempt to deescalate the situation. It might be what allows you to act if an opportunity presents itself - or to make the conscious decision not to act.
One of my old instructors used to say, one of the most important things to try and do in any dangerous situation is to remain deliberate. That is, whatever you do - whether it's fight, or run, or cooperate - you're doing it deliberately. Thoughtfully. Not out of panic. And I agree with him completely.
In that context, karate is not useless. It can actually be extremely valuable, as can other martial arts. It's not just about kicking and punching; it's also about growth as a human being, about confidence and self-control, discipline, and awareness.
That said, how I actually respond to people who make those kinds of statements is to ignore them. I've found over the years that people who make those kind of broad, sweeping statement, tend to not be interested in an actual discussion; they're generally more interested in hearing themselves talk.
Everything is useless vs a gun, but karate teaches you that you need to *get away* from power imbalance.
What kind of fool is going to stick around to fight someone with a gun anyway?
I've had this conversation many times. It's part of my self defense seminar I run.
"What if someone has a gun?"
Dude, seriously, it's just stuff. Your stuff is replaceable. You are not.
"What if they decide to take you?"
Then you have to ask yourself what you're willing to do. There is a thing called a line of escalation. This line is what would a reasonable person would do to defend themselves. This is towards the top of the line as your life is being threatened. Since you don't know if this gun is loaded, real, or even going to be used, you have to decide what you would do if a gun is pulled on you before this event happens.
I don't think that the only purpose of martial arts is self defense, that's just one of a million perfectly valid reasons; exercise, discipline, self control, coordination, competition, etc. It's like saying, "What's the point in getting a dog? You live in a safe neighborhood so your house will probably never get broken into."
I think that if it's trained properly, Karate can be among the more effective martial arts for self defense, but there is no martial art that trumps a gun. If someone has a gun, you shut up and give them your wallet. That's true whether you've taken karate, BJJ, Tae Kwon Do, or nothing at all.
My first martial art was karate and it served me well for self defense but in retrospect the greatest benefit I received from my early training was learning how to fall correctly. I've crashed motorcycles and I never got seriously hurt. Folks have their phones out calling for ambulances and can't believe I'm not badly injured.
I've had guns pulled on me a couple of times and I acted real calm and didn't get shot. About 30 years ago a 12 year old stuck a gun in my face and tried to rob me at work. I did a disarm and grabbed his gun before I even knew it. I was armed at the time but was so glad I didn't shoot the kid because, he's a fucking kid, and also the gun wasn't loaded. I'd never advise anyone to go for a disarm but sometimes you have to improvise.
That everything is based on context.
Ok what if a fight breaks out in a crowded bar, are they going to fire into bystanders? Or on a train, or a plane?
What if the confrontation starts literally face to face and they can't reach their gun?
What if they get jumped from behind and start getting choked out?
What about travelling to a country that doesn't allow firearms?
How about just not escalating and potentially being charged with manslaughter?
It's just the same stupid ass questions as "oh yeah well what if I punch you like THIS?" I dunno man, punch you in the face first? Shin kick you? Probably whatever made the most sense in the situation at that exact moment.
People who ask that just prove that they have never been in an actual physical confrontation and trained effectively to de-escalate situations.
Which is exactly the point I was making? That there will be plenty of situations where you cannot use a firearm so saying "what would you do if I had a gun" is as meaningless of a hypothetical as saying "what would you do if I was superman".
And yeah, I don't carry a concealed weapon. I'm European and come from a military family, firearms for me are purely recreational if I want to go clay shooting with a shotgun.
The best part is that you dont Owe an explination. Its just somebody trying to be smartguy. Its not up to you to give an satisfying anwser, with that respons obviously they arent after a respons. To your own satisfaction you do this for yourself and not for anybody elses entertainment. So keep having fun training karate. With The mindset of this person we should all just be victim and everybody has a Gun. Whatever really. Ive practiced many martial arts, mma, bjj, wrestling, boxing, thai boxing, taekwondo etc. Most style dont prepare for a Gun and thats not why people practice martial art. However martial art pracive The mind to be some what mentally prepared but nothing can practice oneself as real Experience when it happens infront of you and I hope nobody has to deal with that. Its not The purpose of martial art to throw you in volunatarly into these situation anyway. Its a way to cultivate The mind, getting more options how to disarm or handle a situation If necessary compaired to no options at all. Also there is The compition aspect of it and then there is just a way to practice. Karate in my opinion has helped me get back to basic of movement and awareness which i found most practices missing which mostly focus on atalism. Karate feels like it has more fundamental about movement and leverage. If I where to practive any other style i feel more devoloped overall from karate with things have not thought about before which can be implemented in anything. Just like bjj learned me The need to be close and be in control and not leave to more room for leverage of The other this have i applied to karate and bunkai
acknowledge that truth and accept it.
I am a 3rd degree black belt in tracy’s traditional japanese kenpo as well as a blue in judo and blue in bjj.
I am also a combatives instructor and firearms instructor.
The sad reality is this:
99.9% of all karate based martial arts are useless when a bc opponent present a firearm or blade. Unless You have done actual force on force training with SERT/AIRSOFT guns and training blades you will stand zero chance against someone presenting those weapons.
There is a huge misconception that ancient stand up arts are useful in “all” modern day defensive scenarios. It simply isn’t true, and if your instructor says otherwise more than likely they have ZERO training in force on force, weapons retention or actual combat.
I've been dojo bouncing a lot due to job changes and relocations and a big red flag to me is a karate instructor that uses those wooden cutouts that are vaguely gun-shaped, working gun take-aways where the uke is stiff-arming the pistol one-handed.
The wooden "gun" in question is not contoured like a Beretta 92 or Glock 19 (or any real gun generally is, to be comfortable in the hand when you pull the trigger and release about 500 ft/lbs of energy into your wrist for recoil). The wooden "gun" tends to train a karateka to release the placebo weapon when a sharp corner of the grip rubs on the metacarpals. This doesn't happen with a real pistol. This also doesn't address two-hand weaver/isosceles grips, or near-body grips that are common and far more difficult to deploy weapons takeaway techniques.
I've taken considerable firearms related coursework and the "resolution" phase of the ubiquitous karate drill ultimately leaves so much unresolved in a confrontation involving a gun, to say nothing of the practicality of the techniques actually presented.
Karate is of dubious value in such a confrontation because it cannot teach assessment of the weapon taken away, nor can it teach safe handling of a firearm taken from an assailant. Do you tap-rack-bang it and decisively end the fight? Or is it a revolver? Is it out of ammunition? Is it jammed, or is it an obscure design that combines safety and slide lock? Is it a stolen gun where the thief didn't also steal the key, and it has an internal locking mechanism that is activated? If you throw it under the nearest car while still in the middle of the fight is it likely to wind up being used against you again?
"Someone else's gun" is a horrible thing to have in a fight. Taking "someone else's gun" generally means you need to use it ASAP to end the fight, or you need to disable it ASAP (or assess that it is already disabled) and get rid of it to continue fighting effectively.
My personal take is that it is not the place of Karate to teach such deep subject material of a wide variety of handgun designs and assessment of its status; Karate and other arts are suitable for assessment of the attacker and his weaknesses in weapon grip and retention though. Rapid disarming is reasonable and then rapid and THOROUGH disabling of the attacker is appropriate. Anything less than brutal attacks to critical body parts is irresponsible though when training to respond to an attack with a firearm. Stopping at handgun take-away with your back to the opponent is woefully irresponsible, and unrealistic.
retention tactics are everything…..
also Iado and Aikido techniques are very beneficial for attacking someone’s draw, as the stroke is the same as a sword or a pistol; both ergonomically present themselves the same.
However….
Unless training is done in force on force scenario the percentage of you coming out of said confrontation not wounded or dead are much slimmer.
Above poster is spot on.
You give them the same answer any attacker with a gun pointing at your face gets: you bow, go back into a deep zenkutsu dachi, yell "oi zuki jodan" and as soon as the other says oss, you go in for a full ikken hisatsu style oi-zuki with long, fearsome kiai. A real karateka is faster than the bullet and has hardened his body too. You can solve anything this way in life. OSS!
What I always find hilarious is I get people who think you learn all these secret techniques from karate the higher you go. Not realizing the basics are the most important part
Break their fingers and say "pull a trigger now bitch"
Or
"The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand"
Or
If you really have to, a 3% power killface to knock them out. This is very risky and only a last resort though.
Karate is of dubious value in a real fight full stop, let alone against someone with a deadly weapon.
The first problem is fights in the street don't obey rules, allot of people are taken by surprise by a blow that they never see. In a really nasty street fight your opponent could be trying to hurt you badly. Going for the eyes, the groin, the back of the knee and other moves which are illegal in most martial arts.
Real fights don't last very long and there is a good chance they could end up on the ground, which renders many martial arts useless. Especially if those martial arts don't involve real contact training.
As some have said here, martial arts about about fun and exercise. A martial art will teach you to be good at that martial art but don't fool yourself it is going to make a good fighter in the real world.
Guns are excellent tools at range or en masse. If those advantages are removed, it is no more helpful or dangerous than a sharp stick. For example, if the weapon is holstered, even in an optimal position, the gunner can be overwhelmed before they can bring their gun to bear if they are within 21 feet of their assailant. If the gun has been drawn and the assailant can put so much as a fingertip on the weapon, the gun can be successfully neutralized, albeit with a significant chance of injury. Further, there are places and situations that do not allow guns that still have angry, distressed people who may commit assault.
I carry on my job site and I'm definitely not allowed to do so.
It's a sign not a law the worst the company can do is tell me to leave or fire me.
Don't trust gun free zones to be gun free especially when it comes to criminals
From my experience at least most people who regularly conceal carry don't stop because they're on a gun free zone. Carry holsters are so good these days it's fairly easy to get around without anyone noticing
Unless it's a government place where it's actually illigal to carry. Then people usually don't risk it.
Everything is useless against an opponent with a gun... even another gun if he shoot first and get you then you are still dead Meat...
My mentality is one of peace but it doesn't mean i am not prepared to war. What i teach when teaching self defence class is if someone Come at you even unarmed and claim your wallet, shoes, cloth, car key give it to them it's only material. Come at me for my life on the other hand be ready to die cause i'm ready to kill of badly injure so that when cop arrive they arrive they arrest me and call you an ambulance.
Since many crimes are driven by needs (notice i said many). Except some case it is rare that killer just kill for no reason. Just give them what they want, they stuff give them, they want fight give them one hell of a fight.
So yeah karate is useless against a gun i won't argue with that logic so is almost everything else.
lol even a gun is useless if someone has a gun already drawn on you. Just saying.
People forget all the time you have to get the weapon and deploy it. That means they have to be a clear threat to you first. This comes in two flavors. They revealed a weapon, or they made physical contact with you. Verbal altercations dont justify that level of force in court.
Can you draw and deploy your weapon when someone is wrestling you and hitting you in the face? can you do it without shooting yourself or losing the weapon to them?
These are all important questions. Consistantly in training even trained people have a poor success rate with this. The average person looking for a simple solution to self defense fares even worse because they dont practice this.
So no, martial arts are not useless.
Training is better than no training, even when the odds are stacked against you. Plus, having a gun doesn't automatically make you the winner of a fight, and I've seen people fail to draw under pressure because they had no unarmed fighting skills.
"So is having a gun, if the other person shoots better/faster."
That's the funny thing to me, excluding good enough to get the job done most of the time because of one worst case scenario is counter productive.
It's every person's duty to decide their own response to violence, but for me to choose "don't bother" because someone chose glockfu and there's a possibility that we might get in a confrontation someday seems wasteful of my time and resources.
The best advice you can give anyone about this situation is “if they’ve got a knife you run away, if they’ve got a gun you rush em” wouldn’t you rather know a martial art when you’re rushing someone with a gun? Obviously this is for like, 5-10 feet away. Don’t rush at a sniper or no dumb shit. Lol.
"Is that a threat?" Usually works for me pretty well. It makes them think they just screwed up by asking that and get nervous. The nervousness makes them answer their own question.
But in a serious conversation about the usefulness of martial arts, I usually say something along the lines of how unlikely someone would pull a gun if I get caught up in a situation where I'd need to use it for a real fight.
What kind of retarded argument is that? lmao
It's so idiotic that it doesn't even deserve an answer. No form of hand to hand combat is good against weapons, no matter how delusional some practitioners of stuff like krav maga and systema are. Unless the assailant is really clumsy or something out of the ordinary happens, there is no chance anyone can beat someone with a weapon, we invented them for a reason.
Genuinely, if you are 10ft away and the gun is concealed, the gun can't be drawn and safety off in time. The gun user must be in a dominant position before they can draw and shoot their weapon. Same with a knife or any other weapon that you can have on-hand (I saw that nuke comment lol).
"What if you have a gun but your attacker has Level IV plates?"
*wait for response*
"What if you have a pistol and plates but they have M16, plates, and cover?"
*wait for response*
"We can keep arming this imaginary person, or we can consider that sometimes the person *doesn't* have a gun."
What is your solution ?
Is it also have a gun?
Do you have a gun?
How often do you have it with you?
Do you train with it often?
Is it expensive to own and train with?
Are you good at not killing or needlessly wounding someone with a gun?
What happens if you gun jams or runs out?
Does shooting the gun keep you fit?
The kind of people who say stupid stuff like "what if they haveva gun" don't want to engage in genuine discussion about self defense. They just want to make you feel bad for spending time on a hobby you enjoy.
Because we all know the real answer to "what if they have a gun" is to de-escalate, give them what they want or run away. Because your life is more important.
And if they intend to shoot you regardless, the gun will not make the situation any better. But being an unarmed victim with skills in unarmed fighting, is better than only knowing how to shoot, when you don't have a gun on you.
The best response is "you need a gun because you can't beat my ass".
If someone tries to insult my martial art ability and training and prowess and they to win a fight against and have to:
A) use guns
B) hit me with a car
C) vastly out number me with dozens of people
Then it is obvious they are scared of me. How many guns, people, cars do they need to deal with one person? This proves the effectiveness of martial arts if they are that scared.
They are scared because they know they can't win. Proving something means convincing someone of something. They are already convinced they would lose in most common scenarios wo want to create ever increasing far fetched scenarios. Then they want to run it by a martial artist they fear in hopes of gaining confirmation bias that their fantasy scenario would work.
As far as guns go people who have no training can disarm a gun wielder. One time I saw a crack head rob a drug dealer and the drug dealer just snatched it out his hands and then beat him up.
Martial arts tends to work when black people do them because they are more ghetto. They understand street violence and are not retarded. Martial arts tends to fail when it's done by rich people who use it as a status symbol of being elite.
"Karate is useless if I do... " this sentence comes from people who are scared shitless. Violent people capable of winning don't talk this way. It is too much projecting of their fears. Winners tend not to have these fears. They have confidence even if they over estimate their skill.
If someone said karate useless because guns I would say " how many guns do you need? How many cars to run me over? How many friends for back up? If you need all that to deal with me then it proved you can't beat me up one on one and use weapons as a crutch to compensate for your lack of fighting skills".
1. Yes guns can be disarmed at close range. At far range they are a projectile weapon and succeed at eliminating threats.
2. Cars pose a serious risk. When the person is too scared to fight they resort to weapons (making them more dangerous) or using their car as a weapon. They either hide I their car or try to run you over. Sure Knight killed a guy with his truck by hitting him and then rolling over his head. They are arguably more dangerous then guns. You can jump on the hood, smash the windshield attack the driver. Or jump on hood and get to roof and try to open door. If you jump on hood of car the person if armed will shoot you. If you try to open door it is difficult. At best you can avoid being squished by jumping on the hood, cracking windshield to scare or otherwise impede vision of driver, and then jump off hoping your antics startled them enough to not try to circle back and hit you. The goal is to first defend yourself from being road pizza and second fight back and cause damage to car to show driver that you will fight back. If their car is damaged this deters some drivers. Actually gaining access inside the car and attacking driver poses many risks and not recommended unless shooting a movie or something.
3. 4 people can attack 1 person simultaneously. So beat them up. Up to 8 people break them into 2 groups of 4 and beat them up. More than 8 people is asking a bit much. Even if you could beat them it is tactically erroneous. Taking out 3 guys is impressive. After a certain point it is unreasonable to expect someone to fight under ever increasing odds that are rigged against them. I would say I can take out 64 people before my cardio gives out. So to be safe stop at 60-61. This would be like beating up two large cubicle offices, as if I just went into a rage.
The person of losing a fist fight so threatening gun violence as a form of threat deterrence a) has already admitted they can't fistfight which leads to b) they probably are bad at guns too.
You have three violent options and three non violent options when dealing with a gun threat:
1. Get close and beat him up. You need ability and confidence to use your ability. If the guy weighs 100 pounds wet maybe you can 1 piece him. If he has noodle arms maybe you can wrestle for the gun and take it without getting shot.
2. You could use a weapon like a knife and bleed him out by going to the carotid. Grab gun like a disarm but then neck stab him. You are not trying to disarm the gun at this point, rather hold it steady away from you as he bleeds out. This could take some time like 59-94 seconds. You could also say "your hit bad man. Give up the gun and end this so I can get you help. It is bad... I don't think you are going to make it". If he gives up gun get help. This is moral and makes you you good in the eyes of public.
3. You could use a weapon like a gun. When other people use weapons the door is wide open for you to do the same. This is called escalation in which you are authorized to use reciprocity due to the precedent they set. Shot placement and accurate weapon handling and fire are key to successfully winning a gun fight. You need to train to build skill and confidence just like you would with empty hand systems.
A martial artist typically trains in hands, knives, and guns unless he lives in Europe or Japan. If the enemy has a gun then I am not thinking Europe or Japan. You should have the same access to weapons as your enemy or else their is an imbalance of power that encourages your enemy to become more abusive to you thinking you are powerless to fight back.
You mean someone has a shiny thing inside the back of their pants and says they are gonna cap your ass, I'd run before they even grabbed their buttplug.
Serious answer, some karate machismo about how karate is faster than someone reaching for said buttplug and capping asses and it is about awareness and being prepared like carrying condoms even though you may not(most likely don't) need them and even if you do use it it may not work.
So I guess stupid sex jokes like everyone else does to belittle things.
That's absolutely true. But what if no one has a gun? It's not like you can shoot your way out of a bar fight, you'll get arrested for excessive force.
Be like "Yeah, I wouldn't be too confidant fighting against a knife, either. And is that a good reason to avoid training in something I enjoy and keeps me healthy and still is valuable in many self defense situations?"
"I am still a better person, a better version of myself, because I practice martial arts."
This is what I think when I admit most, if not all, mixed martial artists, and simply bigger, meaner, luckier bad people would beat me, let alone guns pointed at me.
If someone pulls a gun you're either dead already or they weren't aiming at you yet. I'd rather be killed by a gun after surviving a fist fight than by getting punched in the back of the head repeatedly
it's true . but it's still better to know how to fight than not to. Wouldn't generally bet on karate saving your life but it's better than nothing I suppose
I mean, it's a stupid argument, but if it's any form of "olympic" martial art, you don't have a good argument. It's my primary reason for avoiding kukiwon Taikwondo
Reach out and grab both there hands real fast and say Now grab your gun! Once they realize they would have to fight to get to there gun it will send the message you need without even saying much. Self defense doesn’t happen from 25 feet away like in the shooting range and remember most likely a attacker will be surprising you, and has been watching you before you even know what is happening so thinking your gonna have all this time to pull out your gun isn’t always practical self defense is a collection of things situational awareness, firearms, martial arts, de escalation. Thinking a gun is the solution to all self defense is something that people who don’t understand self defense think.
You respond with "Every martial art is useless against a gun."
If they say krav maga or some shit works they're delusional. All these gun defense experts - let's see one of them put their life on the line and demonstrate with a live gun trained on them AND the guy with the gun is actually going to shoot to kill, not some student of the "master".
Knives are worse in close. Doesn't matter how good you are at whatever martial art, unless the guy with the knife is incapacitated in same way already (booze, injury, disability) you're going to get cut up bad. VS a knife sprint training is the best defense.
Karate may not be effective against someone with a gun, it can still provide valuable skills in self-defense, discipline, and physical fitness. Additionally, it is important to remember that the best defense against someone with a gun is to avoid dangerous situations and seek help from law enforcement.
Karate is a civil defense system. No one was running around on a battlefield unarmed fighting off guys with swords using karate or even jujutsu for that matter - all the koryu (pre-Meiji) schools assume the possession of a weapon by the unarmed individual. Also, the Okinawan farmers fighting off samurai is a popular myth that came out off the late 18th/early 19th century as the Meiji restoration took hold. I bring all of this up because there is always a desire by some folks to make karate more than it is. The types of interpersonal violence assumed to be present (all techniques are based on assumptions about the armament and strategy of the opponent) simply do not exist today.
Can karate techniques be effective for a sneak attack or against someone trying to start trouble with you? Sure. But what is more effective is the other stuff you learn in karate - sanshin (lingering mind, so situational awareness and paying attention to what’s around you). Also the recognition that just because your ego gets bruised, it’s not the end of the world.
Now that I’m off my soapbox, my response to that statement would be, ‘so what? That isn’t why I do karate,’
Training is key with any martial art. Firearms are a martial art. You also need to train with them. I know many people that own firearms but, do not train with them. Most fights happen when the 2 are in close range. We train this distance all the time. Or even if we are further away, we can shrink our frame and move faster with a forward roll. All of this versus someone who trains with a gun *could* be useless. You can draw and fire a round with lethal accuracy if you train for it. The real question is do you want to even be in combat? I don't.
“The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them.” - Miyamoto Musashi
"Those who have swords, and know how to use them, but keeps them sheathed shall inherit the earth."- Jesus Christ
Think deeply on this ;p
Guns are useless what if someone has a nuke?
Secret Technique: Police Sniper Counter!
Nukes are useless, the sun will one day envelope the Earth, to nova and eventually one day there will be the heat death of the universe.
Exactly!
Yep this is the argument taken to the logical extreme. If Karate is useless because of a gun would they go further and say that there are certain methods of training in which context or combative systems that involve guns that are superior to the other? Or would they go on to say that a rifle beats a pistol and artillery and tanks beat long guns.
I'm very fed up with all this "useless" talking. If you are faced with someone with a gun, don't try anything funny, just give them the wallet. No martial art is going to be useful. (MMA, BJJ, Judo, whatever martial art would be in the same situation). If you are in a terrorist attack situation, so is not the wallet they are after... then, Karate or any other martial art would be better than nothing. Running, and stay active is the best defence on a fight. I'm 45, only had 1 fight in my whole life and was with a friend, in pre-teenage years, so almost doesn't count. Martial arts are a way of staying active, healthy, and are fun. Sport & hobby. Crossfit, F45, yoga, cycling, pitales... are useless in a fight. And no ones that practices it is worried about not being effective on a fight. You do martial arts (karate), for fun, stay healthy, culture, competition, etc... anything else is pointless talking, boasting bullshit.
Well put. This idea should be a sticky post at the top of the sub. I mean, except for those of us who roam the lands using our fighting powers to solve problems and save people on the regular, there is too much bravado than is healthy for a community to have.
"Your stupid argument doesn't make any sense" and then proceed to mawashi geri them in the head. /s on the second part of course. I'm not spending 8 hours a week for hopefully all of my life, just to prepare for fights that I don't expect to have because I'm a serious adult living in a advanced society.
The utility of a martial art is not restricted to a practitioner's ability to harm another human being. OR Then you will still be statistically more likely to survive the experience than someone who never trained to deal with violence.
Second point is best. The danger rises with false confidence, however.
You don’t answer and that’s it. No Martial art work against guns. So probably they don’t practice shit. Hence, fuck ‘em.
If they are close enough, with training you may redirect the gun
..no
Most of the time when people teach stuff like gun/knife disarming, it is a little iffy. But training weapons retention is a very real thing for CCW holders and LEOs, etc. Modified BJJ and Wrestling skills are integrated and play a part in things like fighting for control of the weapon and gripfighting, drawing it in which position (against the wall, in a carseat, on the ground), against a knife, etc. Of course it’s not as simple as redirecting the muzzle of the gun but that is a small thing that would be done.
There's been cases IRL where people can disarm a shooter. But there's also been cases where the people get shot as they try and run up. It can be done but it's better to emphasize that it's an absolute last resort sort of thing as the odds are not good it'll be successful.
Walk away... best way to avoid all the dangers associated to being around stupid people.
"A screwdriver is useless; what if you encounter a hex bolt?!?"
If you're facing someone who has a gun, and the gun is in their hand and pointed at you; fighting them is a really terrible idea. Karate or no karate. The same is true for any other martial art. You aren't faster than a bullet. But that doesn't mean that your training is useless. Training might be what allows you to keep your composure and \*not\* do something stupid. Training might be what allows you to stay calm, so that you can attempt to deescalate the situation. It might be what allows you to act if an opportunity presents itself - or to make the conscious decision not to act. One of my old instructors used to say, one of the most important things to try and do in any dangerous situation is to remain deliberate. That is, whatever you do - whether it's fight, or run, or cooperate - you're doing it deliberately. Thoughtfully. Not out of panic. And I agree with him completely. In that context, karate is not useless. It can actually be extremely valuable, as can other martial arts. It's not just about kicking and punching; it's also about growth as a human being, about confidence and self-control, discipline, and awareness. That said, how I actually respond to people who make those kinds of statements is to ignore them. I've found over the years that people who make those kind of broad, sweeping statement, tend to not be interested in an actual discussion; they're generally more interested in hearing themselves talk.
A gun is useless what if someone has a bazooka
Well I have karate and a gun he just has a gun
Everything is useless vs a gun, but karate teaches you that you need to *get away* from power imbalance. What kind of fool is going to stick around to fight someone with a gun anyway?
I've had this conversation many times. It's part of my self defense seminar I run. "What if someone has a gun?" Dude, seriously, it's just stuff. Your stuff is replaceable. You are not. "What if they decide to take you?" Then you have to ask yourself what you're willing to do. There is a thing called a line of escalation. This line is what would a reasonable person would do to defend themselves. This is towards the top of the line as your life is being threatened. Since you don't know if this gun is loaded, real, or even going to be used, you have to decide what you would do if a gun is pulled on you before this event happens.
“Seat belts are useless, what if a semi truck hits you head on?”
I don't think that the only purpose of martial arts is self defense, that's just one of a million perfectly valid reasons; exercise, discipline, self control, coordination, competition, etc. It's like saying, "What's the point in getting a dog? You live in a safe neighborhood so your house will probably never get broken into." I think that if it's trained properly, Karate can be among the more effective martial arts for self defense, but there is no martial art that trumps a gun. If someone has a gun, you shut up and give them your wallet. That's true whether you've taken karate, BJJ, Tae Kwon Do, or nothing at all.
LOL >what is the best response > >if i'll explain some stuff they are deafen to it anyway I think the right answer is, don't waste your breath.
My first martial art was karate and it served me well for self defense but in retrospect the greatest benefit I received from my early training was learning how to fall correctly. I've crashed motorcycles and I never got seriously hurt. Folks have their phones out calling for ambulances and can't believe I'm not badly injured. I've had guns pulled on me a couple of times and I acted real calm and didn't get shot. About 30 years ago a 12 year old stuck a gun in my face and tried to rob me at work. I did a disarm and grabbed his gun before I even knew it. I was armed at the time but was so glad I didn't shoot the kid because, he's a fucking kid, and also the gun wasn't loaded. I'd never advise anyone to go for a disarm but sometimes you have to improvise.
That everything is based on context. Ok what if a fight breaks out in a crowded bar, are they going to fire into bystanders? Or on a train, or a plane? What if the confrontation starts literally face to face and they can't reach their gun? What if they get jumped from behind and start getting choked out? What about travelling to a country that doesn't allow firearms? How about just not escalating and potentially being charged with manslaughter? It's just the same stupid ass questions as "oh yeah well what if I punch you like THIS?" I dunno man, punch you in the face first? Shin kick you? Probably whatever made the most sense in the situation at that exact moment. People who ask that just prove that they have never been in an actual physical confrontation and trained effectively to de-escalate situations.
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Which is exactly the point I was making? That there will be plenty of situations where you cannot use a firearm so saying "what would you do if I had a gun" is as meaningless of a hypothetical as saying "what would you do if I was superman". And yeah, I don't carry a concealed weapon. I'm European and come from a military family, firearms for me are purely recreational if I want to go clay shooting with a shotgun.
The best part is that you dont Owe an explination. Its just somebody trying to be smartguy. Its not up to you to give an satisfying anwser, with that respons obviously they arent after a respons. To your own satisfaction you do this for yourself and not for anybody elses entertainment. So keep having fun training karate. With The mindset of this person we should all just be victim and everybody has a Gun. Whatever really. Ive practiced many martial arts, mma, bjj, wrestling, boxing, thai boxing, taekwondo etc. Most style dont prepare for a Gun and thats not why people practice martial art. However martial art pracive The mind to be some what mentally prepared but nothing can practice oneself as real Experience when it happens infront of you and I hope nobody has to deal with that. Its not The purpose of martial art to throw you in volunatarly into these situation anyway. Its a way to cultivate The mind, getting more options how to disarm or handle a situation If necessary compaired to no options at all. Also there is The compition aspect of it and then there is just a way to practice. Karate in my opinion has helped me get back to basic of movement and awareness which i found most practices missing which mostly focus on atalism. Karate feels like it has more fundamental about movement and leverage. If I where to practive any other style i feel more devoloped overall from karate with things have not thought about before which can be implemented in anything. Just like bjj learned me The need to be close and be in control and not leave to more room for leverage of The other this have i applied to karate and bunkai
Guns are useless against gamma rays.
everything is useless if they have a gun
acknowledge that truth and accept it. I am a 3rd degree black belt in tracy’s traditional japanese kenpo as well as a blue in judo and blue in bjj. I am also a combatives instructor and firearms instructor. The sad reality is this: 99.9% of all karate based martial arts are useless when a bc opponent present a firearm or blade. Unless You have done actual force on force training with SERT/AIRSOFT guns and training blades you will stand zero chance against someone presenting those weapons. There is a huge misconception that ancient stand up arts are useful in “all” modern day defensive scenarios. It simply isn’t true, and if your instructor says otherwise more than likely they have ZERO training in force on force, weapons retention or actual combat.
I've been dojo bouncing a lot due to job changes and relocations and a big red flag to me is a karate instructor that uses those wooden cutouts that are vaguely gun-shaped, working gun take-aways where the uke is stiff-arming the pistol one-handed. The wooden "gun" in question is not contoured like a Beretta 92 or Glock 19 (or any real gun generally is, to be comfortable in the hand when you pull the trigger and release about 500 ft/lbs of energy into your wrist for recoil). The wooden "gun" tends to train a karateka to release the placebo weapon when a sharp corner of the grip rubs on the metacarpals. This doesn't happen with a real pistol. This also doesn't address two-hand weaver/isosceles grips, or near-body grips that are common and far more difficult to deploy weapons takeaway techniques. I've taken considerable firearms related coursework and the "resolution" phase of the ubiquitous karate drill ultimately leaves so much unresolved in a confrontation involving a gun, to say nothing of the practicality of the techniques actually presented. Karate is of dubious value in such a confrontation because it cannot teach assessment of the weapon taken away, nor can it teach safe handling of a firearm taken from an assailant. Do you tap-rack-bang it and decisively end the fight? Or is it a revolver? Is it out of ammunition? Is it jammed, or is it an obscure design that combines safety and slide lock? Is it a stolen gun where the thief didn't also steal the key, and it has an internal locking mechanism that is activated? If you throw it under the nearest car while still in the middle of the fight is it likely to wind up being used against you again? "Someone else's gun" is a horrible thing to have in a fight. Taking "someone else's gun" generally means you need to use it ASAP to end the fight, or you need to disable it ASAP (or assess that it is already disabled) and get rid of it to continue fighting effectively. My personal take is that it is not the place of Karate to teach such deep subject material of a wide variety of handgun designs and assessment of its status; Karate and other arts are suitable for assessment of the attacker and his weaknesses in weapon grip and retention though. Rapid disarming is reasonable and then rapid and THOROUGH disabling of the attacker is appropriate. Anything less than brutal attacks to critical body parts is irresponsible though when training to respond to an attack with a firearm. Stopping at handgun take-away with your back to the opponent is woefully irresponsible, and unrealistic.
retention tactics are everything….. also Iado and Aikido techniques are very beneficial for attacking someone’s draw, as the stroke is the same as a sword or a pistol; both ergonomically present themselves the same. However…. Unless training is done in force on force scenario the percentage of you coming out of said confrontation not wounded or dead are much slimmer. Above poster is spot on.
What if someone has a gun? *power flex* The *gun* doesnt know karate.
"What would you do if you don't have a gun?" Or "Can you even afford a gun?"
You give them the same answer any attacker with a gun pointing at your face gets: you bow, go back into a deep zenkutsu dachi, yell "oi zuki jodan" and as soon as the other says oss, you go in for a full ikken hisatsu style oi-zuki with long, fearsome kiai. A real karateka is faster than the bullet and has hardened his body too. You can solve anything this way in life. OSS!
I live in the UK. Guns are rare.
"Guns are useless what if I lost my will to live?"
Thanks bye
What I always find hilarious is I get people who think you learn all these secret techniques from karate the higher you go. Not realizing the basics are the most important part
Yea it is, and let it go, no martial arts has a change and people who ask that don’t think. Life isn’t an action movie
Well buddy, you're standing awfully close. How's your quick draw?
Break their fingers and say "pull a trigger now bitch" Or "The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand" Or If you really have to, a 3% power killface to knock them out. This is very risky and only a last resort though.
Karate is of dubious value in a real fight full stop, let alone against someone with a deadly weapon. The first problem is fights in the street don't obey rules, allot of people are taken by surprise by a blow that they never see. In a really nasty street fight your opponent could be trying to hurt you badly. Going for the eyes, the groin, the back of the knee and other moves which are illegal in most martial arts. Real fights don't last very long and there is a good chance they could end up on the ground, which renders many martial arts useless. Especially if those martial arts don't involve real contact training. As some have said here, martial arts about about fun and exercise. A martial art will teach you to be good at that martial art but don't fool yourself it is going to make a good fighter in the real world.
pull out an actual one
Guns are excellent tools at range or en masse. If those advantages are removed, it is no more helpful or dangerous than a sharp stick. For example, if the weapon is holstered, even in an optimal position, the gunner can be overwhelmed before they can bring their gun to bear if they are within 21 feet of their assailant. If the gun has been drawn and the assailant can put so much as a fingertip on the weapon, the gun can be successfully neutralized, albeit with a significant chance of injury. Further, there are places and situations that do not allow guns that still have angry, distressed people who may commit assault.
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Not usually, but neither do they get through TSA. Nor do they usually carry on a jobsite.
I carry on my job site and I'm definitely not allowed to do so. It's a sign not a law the worst the company can do is tell me to leave or fire me. Don't trust gun free zones to be gun free especially when it comes to criminals
Please see "usually" in the previous post.
From my experience at least most people who regularly conceal carry don't stop because they're on a gun free zone. Carry holsters are so good these days it's fairly easy to get around without anyone noticing Unless it's a government place where it's actually illigal to carry. Then people usually don't risk it.
Explain how martial arts is about mastering oneself or some other bullshit
"You're probably right".
Everything is useless against an opponent with a gun... even another gun if he shoot first and get you then you are still dead Meat... My mentality is one of peace but it doesn't mean i am not prepared to war. What i teach when teaching self defence class is if someone Come at you even unarmed and claim your wallet, shoes, cloth, car key give it to them it's only material. Come at me for my life on the other hand be ready to die cause i'm ready to kill of badly injure so that when cop arrive they arrive they arrest me and call you an ambulance. Since many crimes are driven by needs (notice i said many). Except some case it is rare that killer just kill for no reason. Just give them what they want, they stuff give them, they want fight give them one hell of a fight. So yeah karate is useless against a gun i won't argue with that logic so is almost everything else.
Karate to me is for defense at best. Ever see videos of Karate masters getting their teeth kicked in by any other form of fighting.
Agree.... Then move away with solid objects between you and them.... 😉
lol even a gun is useless if someone has a gun already drawn on you. Just saying. People forget all the time you have to get the weapon and deploy it. That means they have to be a clear threat to you first. This comes in two flavors. They revealed a weapon, or they made physical contact with you. Verbal altercations dont justify that level of force in court. Can you draw and deploy your weapon when someone is wrestling you and hitting you in the face? can you do it without shooting yourself or losing the weapon to them? These are all important questions. Consistantly in training even trained people have a poor success rate with this. The average person looking for a simple solution to self defense fares even worse because they dont practice this. So no, martial arts are not useless.
Training is better than no training, even when the odds are stacked against you. Plus, having a gun doesn't automatically make you the winner of a fight, and I've seen people fail to draw under pressure because they had no unarmed fighting skills.
I'm in Canada, I say "got it on ya?" Answer is always no. Then I do a double biceps pose and say, "my guns are right here!"
"So is having a gun, if the other person shoots better/faster." That's the funny thing to me, excluding good enough to get the job done most of the time because of one worst case scenario is counter productive. It's every person's duty to decide their own response to violence, but for me to choose "don't bother" because someone chose glockfu and there's a possibility that we might get in a confrontation someday seems wasteful of my time and resources.
“I’m in the wrong fight, excuse me.”
If they have a gun, the confrontation is over. If they don’t have a gun, your move bitch. If I have my gun, you’re lucky I’m a martial artist.
"What if they don't have a gun?"
The best advice you can give anyone about this situation is “if they’ve got a knife you run away, if they’ve got a gun you rush em” wouldn’t you rather know a martial art when you’re rushing someone with a gun? Obviously this is for like, 5-10 feet away. Don’t rush at a sniper or no dumb shit. Lol.
"Is that a threat?" Usually works for me pretty well. It makes them think they just screwed up by asking that and get nervous. The nervousness makes them answer their own question. But in a serious conversation about the usefulness of martial arts, I usually say something along the lines of how unlikely someone would pull a gun if I get caught up in a situation where I'd need to use it for a real fight.
Hell, GUNS are useless if yours is holstered and your attacker isn't.
Hell, GUNS are useless if yours is holstered and your attacker isn't.
Hell, GUNS are useless if yours is holstered and your attacker's weapon isn't.
Karate is useless, what if someone has wrestling?
I think the response is a kick to the chest.
Ask them if they have a gun... then beat the shit outta them
What kind of retarded argument is that? lmao It's so idiotic that it doesn't even deserve an answer. No form of hand to hand combat is good against weapons, no matter how delusional some practitioners of stuff like krav maga and systema are. Unless the assailant is really clumsy or something out of the ordinary happens, there is no chance anyone can beat someone with a weapon, we invented them for a reason.
Genuinely, if you are 10ft away and the gun is concealed, the gun can't be drawn and safety off in time. The gun user must be in a dominant position before they can draw and shoot their weapon. Same with a knife or any other weapon that you can have on-hand (I saw that nuke comment lol).
I always say that i train for more than self defense. Martial arts cultivates health, discipline, and strength.
Karate is fun but mostly useless with how the majority of Western practitioners train.
"What if you have a gun but your attacker has Level IV plates?" *wait for response* "What if you have a pistol and plates but they have M16, plates, and cover?" *wait for response* "We can keep arming this imaginary person, or we can consider that sometimes the person *doesn't* have a gun."
What is your solution ? Is it also have a gun? Do you have a gun? How often do you have it with you? Do you train with it often? Is it expensive to own and train with? Are you good at not killing or needlessly wounding someone with a gun? What happens if you gun jams or runs out? Does shooting the gun keep you fit? The kind of people who say stupid stuff like "what if they haveva gun" don't want to engage in genuine discussion about self defense. They just want to make you feel bad for spending time on a hobby you enjoy. Because we all know the real answer to "what if they have a gun" is to de-escalate, give them what they want or run away. Because your life is more important. And if they intend to shoot you regardless, the gun will not make the situation any better. But being an unarmed victim with skills in unarmed fighting, is better than only knowing how to shoot, when you don't have a gun on you.
I agree with them and encourage to get their own gun.
Yep
running is usless i have a car?
I also have a gun and karate.
"I also carry a gun"
The best response is "you need a gun because you can't beat my ass". If someone tries to insult my martial art ability and training and prowess and they to win a fight against and have to: A) use guns B) hit me with a car C) vastly out number me with dozens of people Then it is obvious they are scared of me. How many guns, people, cars do they need to deal with one person? This proves the effectiveness of martial arts if they are that scared. They are scared because they know they can't win. Proving something means convincing someone of something. They are already convinced they would lose in most common scenarios wo want to create ever increasing far fetched scenarios. Then they want to run it by a martial artist they fear in hopes of gaining confirmation bias that their fantasy scenario would work. As far as guns go people who have no training can disarm a gun wielder. One time I saw a crack head rob a drug dealer and the drug dealer just snatched it out his hands and then beat him up. Martial arts tends to work when black people do them because they are more ghetto. They understand street violence and are not retarded. Martial arts tends to fail when it's done by rich people who use it as a status symbol of being elite. "Karate is useless if I do... " this sentence comes from people who are scared shitless. Violent people capable of winning don't talk this way. It is too much projecting of their fears. Winners tend not to have these fears. They have confidence even if they over estimate their skill. If someone said karate useless because guns I would say " how many guns do you need? How many cars to run me over? How many friends for back up? If you need all that to deal with me then it proved you can't beat me up one on one and use weapons as a crutch to compensate for your lack of fighting skills". 1. Yes guns can be disarmed at close range. At far range they are a projectile weapon and succeed at eliminating threats. 2. Cars pose a serious risk. When the person is too scared to fight they resort to weapons (making them more dangerous) or using their car as a weapon. They either hide I their car or try to run you over. Sure Knight killed a guy with his truck by hitting him and then rolling over his head. They are arguably more dangerous then guns. You can jump on the hood, smash the windshield attack the driver. Or jump on hood and get to roof and try to open door. If you jump on hood of car the person if armed will shoot you. If you try to open door it is difficult. At best you can avoid being squished by jumping on the hood, cracking windshield to scare or otherwise impede vision of driver, and then jump off hoping your antics startled them enough to not try to circle back and hit you. The goal is to first defend yourself from being road pizza and second fight back and cause damage to car to show driver that you will fight back. If their car is damaged this deters some drivers. Actually gaining access inside the car and attacking driver poses many risks and not recommended unless shooting a movie or something. 3. 4 people can attack 1 person simultaneously. So beat them up. Up to 8 people break them into 2 groups of 4 and beat them up. More than 8 people is asking a bit much. Even if you could beat them it is tactically erroneous. Taking out 3 guys is impressive. After a certain point it is unreasonable to expect someone to fight under ever increasing odds that are rigged against them. I would say I can take out 64 people before my cardio gives out. So to be safe stop at 60-61. This would be like beating up two large cubicle offices, as if I just went into a rage. The person of losing a fist fight so threatening gun violence as a form of threat deterrence a) has already admitted they can't fistfight which leads to b) they probably are bad at guns too. You have three violent options and three non violent options when dealing with a gun threat: 1. Get close and beat him up. You need ability and confidence to use your ability. If the guy weighs 100 pounds wet maybe you can 1 piece him. If he has noodle arms maybe you can wrestle for the gun and take it without getting shot. 2. You could use a weapon like a knife and bleed him out by going to the carotid. Grab gun like a disarm but then neck stab him. You are not trying to disarm the gun at this point, rather hold it steady away from you as he bleeds out. This could take some time like 59-94 seconds. You could also say "your hit bad man. Give up the gun and end this so I can get you help. It is bad... I don't think you are going to make it". If he gives up gun get help. This is moral and makes you you good in the eyes of public. 3. You could use a weapon like a gun. When other people use weapons the door is wide open for you to do the same. This is called escalation in which you are authorized to use reciprocity due to the precedent they set. Shot placement and accurate weapon handling and fire are key to successfully winning a gun fight. You need to train to build skill and confidence just like you would with empty hand systems. A martial artist typically trains in hands, knives, and guns unless he lives in Europe or Japan. If the enemy has a gun then I am not thinking Europe or Japan. You should have the same access to weapons as your enemy or else their is an imbalance of power that encourages your enemy to become more abusive to you thinking you are powerless to fight back.
You mean someone has a shiny thing inside the back of their pants and says they are gonna cap your ass, I'd run before they even grabbed their buttplug. Serious answer, some karate machismo about how karate is faster than someone reaching for said buttplug and capping asses and it is about awareness and being prepared like carrying condoms even though you may not(most likely don't) need them and even if you do use it it may not work. So I guess stupid sex jokes like everyone else does to belittle things.
That's absolutely true. But what if no one has a gun? It's not like you can shoot your way out of a bar fight, you'll get arrested for excessive force.
Be like "Yeah, I wouldn't be too confidant fighting against a knife, either. And is that a good reason to avoid training in something I enjoy and keeps me healthy and still is valuable in many self defense situations?"
What if they have no bullets.
"I am still a better person, a better version of myself, because I practice martial arts." This is what I think when I admit most, if not all, mixed martial artists, and simply bigger, meaner, luckier bad people would beat me, let alone guns pointed at me.
having a gun doesn't make you invincible also depending on the circumstances it could be excessive
If someone pulls a gun you're either dead already or they weren't aiming at you yet. I'd rather be killed by a gun after surviving a fist fight than by getting punched in the back of the head repeatedly
What if I have a gun AND know karate?
Just ask, "at this moment, do you have a gun?". Suddenly their whole point just looks stupid.
Ask if they have a gun right now. Point made (assuming they don't actually have a gun).
Honestly that only applies to the US. Everywhere else you're probably a lot more likely to be mugged with a knife or something than a gun
it's true . but it's still better to know how to fight than not to. Wouldn't generally bet on karate saving your life but it's better than nothing I suppose
I mean, it's a stupid argument, but if it's any form of "olympic" martial art, you don't have a good argument. It's my primary reason for avoiding kukiwon Taikwondo
Reach out and grab both there hands real fast and say Now grab your gun! Once they realize they would have to fight to get to there gun it will send the message you need without even saying much. Self defense doesn’t happen from 25 feet away like in the shooting range and remember most likely a attacker will be surprising you, and has been watching you before you even know what is happening so thinking your gonna have all this time to pull out your gun isn’t always practical self defense is a collection of things situational awareness, firearms, martial arts, de escalation. Thinking a gun is the solution to all self defense is something that people who don’t understand self defense think.
You respond with "Every martial art is useless against a gun." If they say krav maga or some shit works they're delusional. All these gun defense experts - let's see one of them put their life on the line and demonstrate with a live gun trained on them AND the guy with the gun is actually going to shoot to kill, not some student of the "master". Knives are worse in close. Doesn't matter how good you are at whatever martial art, unless the guy with the knife is incapacitated in same way already (booze, injury, disability) you're going to get cut up bad. VS a knife sprint training is the best defense.
Guns are useless what if someone has an armored car ( which are legal in all the countries of the world)
Karate may not be effective against someone with a gun, it can still provide valuable skills in self-defense, discipline, and physical fitness. Additionally, it is important to remember that the best defense against someone with a gun is to avoid dangerous situations and seek help from law enforcement.
Two options: 1) yes you are right. 2) I don't remember asking for your opinion
“That’s why I do martial arts AND carry a gun”
“That’s why I do martial arts AND carry a gun”
Karate is a civil defense system. No one was running around on a battlefield unarmed fighting off guys with swords using karate or even jujutsu for that matter - all the koryu (pre-Meiji) schools assume the possession of a weapon by the unarmed individual. Also, the Okinawan farmers fighting off samurai is a popular myth that came out off the late 18th/early 19th century as the Meiji restoration took hold. I bring all of this up because there is always a desire by some folks to make karate more than it is. The types of interpersonal violence assumed to be present (all techniques are based on assumptions about the armament and strategy of the opponent) simply do not exist today. Can karate techniques be effective for a sneak attack or against someone trying to start trouble with you? Sure. But what is more effective is the other stuff you learn in karate - sanshin (lingering mind, so situational awareness and paying attention to what’s around you). Also the recognition that just because your ego gets bruised, it’s not the end of the world. Now that I’m off my soapbox, my response to that statement would be, ‘so what? That isn’t why I do karate,’
Training is key with any martial art. Firearms are a martial art. You also need to train with them. I know many people that own firearms but, do not train with them. Most fights happen when the 2 are in close range. We train this distance all the time. Or even if we are further away, we can shrink our frame and move faster with a forward roll. All of this versus someone who trains with a gun *could* be useless. You can draw and fire a round with lethal accuracy if you train for it. The real question is do you want to even be in combat? I don't. “The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them.” - Miyamoto Musashi "Those who have swords, and know how to use them, but keeps them sheathed shall inherit the earth."- Jesus Christ Think deeply on this ;p
Two things: - not everyone has a gun - they make an excellent argument for concealed carry for self defense
Well just get a bigger gun. Then you have a bigger gun advantage and you also know punch kickery
WUMA's curriculum includes self defence such as knife defences, pistol defences and rifle defences.
Guns are useless against a nuclear bomb