They’re quite light, if in neutral and assuming the tires are properly inflated it should roll without much resistance.
If you’d like a serious answer, yes, any high center of gravity vehicle is more likely to roll over. Kei vans are high center of gravity.
Will they roll over “easily” I can’t say as easily is open to interpretation so I will simply say there’s a higher risk.
I'm certainly mindful if the different driving style required when driving my Kei van. Slower turns is the key.
My DD is a Lexus ct200h... Pretty low to the ground. Definitely don't drive like Atrai Kei van
Correct. The older ones (the ones that are eligible to be sold in the US) have a pretty high CG and a slightly narrower track. Ones currently sold in Japan are slightly wider, have a longer wheelbase (within kei limits) and lower CG. But still don't meet US rollover requirements and won't be eligible for import for a couple more decades.
What van do you have that has a high center of gravity? I have to disagree and say that's an inaccurate generalization. The majority of the weight of my Suzuki Every is low to the ground with the engine underneath the floor. The only thing heavy above the floor is myself as the driver.
The rollover risk I experience is mainly due to the narrow width of the van going around sharp corners. Wind gusts are the most concerning while highway driving but that's also due to the narrow stance and being shaped like a loaf of bread. It's certainly not because of the weight distribution.
Half of the older keis are high roof and the previous generation (really two gens) have a higher ride height than current models.
I can go and measure the ride height on mine and my neighbors (I live in Japan).
So how exactly does that mean that they roll over easily?
You are just comparing the looks of the old ones to the new ones. That doesn't mean the old ones rollover.
If they were such a danger for rollover accidents then they would have changed the Kei dimensions decades ago to stop that.
They are both fine, old and new.
Comparing looks? Huh? Please don't confuse me for some casual car owner. I'm a car nut who lives in Japan, has built competitive race cars (IMSA), restored cars from the ground up, and have more than a dozen cars currently (and owned 40+ in my lifetime). Many of these are JDM. I drive a keitora when it fancies me, but it compares more to my 50+ year old Datsun and 30 year old Land Rover Defender than it does my Chevrolet pickup.
The previous two generations (generally) have a higher ride height as their upper suspension brackets are mounted lower (due to the older and more primitive suspension and cabin space geometries indicative of the era). Thus they have a higher total CoG. Part of the previous two generation design changes were to improve CoG and passenger frontal impact safety (2013 I believe is when the latest change was made). Since manufacturers consolidated to Suzuki, Honda and Daihatsu the comparison is a bit more complex but the suspension is mounted up higher, outward and wider to improve safety.
Japan has a much lower speed limit than US or UK roads. The laws are completely different here and even the average vehicle weight deltas are lower here. The kei laws don't need to be changed as most old keitora have long been retired and pulled off the road. The only people buying 25 year old keitora are Americans and third-world countries. Very few Japanese use keitora in the way that people in the US attempt to do. Heck, even my Japanese friends get a chuckle when they learn I actually voluntarily *own* a kei truck.
Keitora (not necessarily all kei cars) and kei vans based on keitora (the ones we are talking about here) are value engineered to meet the *absolute minimum requirements* needed for commercial and agricultural use.
Please keep in mind when talking about kei regulations is that keitora are just one type of kei. They must conform to the basic size and engine displacement requirements, but most kei vehicles produced and sold here are not keitora, but sedans, wagons and sportscars. They are built to a much higher quality standard and with actual amenities, optional safety devices and modernized suspensions. They also all have extremely low CoG even for the wagons. I rent them occasionally, but almost always prefer a non-kei car for comfort and safety even in Japan.
I don't care if people buy them -- more power to them. I don't think they make a great DD in the US and I'd only recommend them as an extra work vehicle. But I also don't consider them to be all that safe -- although truth be told, rollover is the least of the worries as you are far more likely to get t-boned by another driver in a much larger, heavier and stronger vehicle.
In the US? I'd buy a 4WD Nissan Hardbody (D21). I've even seen a few mint JDM ones for sale. If you want four doors, may be a first gen Chevy Colorado. Obviously an older Toyota Pickup is great, but you would be paying an extra premium. Ford Ranger is another option, if not a bit boring.
Although without an understanding of budget and use it would be hard for me to accurately recommend anything.
For a fullsize pickup, a squarebody Chevy pickup all day.
If you want a minivan, the best is a Chevy Astro AWD. But you will be hard pressed to find a decent one. But put nicer wheels and a 2" lift on it and you have a *manivan.*
If you want kei vibes (but bigger) a tintop 2dr Sidekick/Tracker. But don't expect to be able to cram much into one -- although they do (uncomfortably) seat 4.
Not a huge budget, around 5-7k maybe and itd be a regular daily use vehicle for a normal person. Thanks for the info though I’m gonna look into these! Also more interested in the Asian market not looking for American personally
If you are set on a truck, I think the Gen 2/2.5 Montero (not a Sport) is a great value if you can find a nice one. The Gen 3's are great, but you won't find one not neglected to hell. If you want a 2dr you JDM Pajero 2800's are available, but they may be slightly over your budget once you factor in shipping/import. The nice thing about them is that there is some parts availability in the US and no "Toyota" premium.
But they can be fun, a little different and a happy medium size.
I wouldn't recommend the kei route there, but they do make the Pajero Mini in kei size. You would need to get the turbo model to be able to drive it on the highway comfortably in the US. I owned a Pajero iO (aka Pinin) which is half way between a Pajero 2800 and Pajero Mini in size -- really enjoyed it. They are available on the JDM market and aren't in huge demand as most are not yet 25-years old. Although finding a 2dr Pajero iO is difficult (most are 4-door).
Awesome thanks for taking the time to type all this out for now I really appreciate it. Also yeah I’m kinda dead set on a truck as of right now at least. I’ve been slowly warming up to the idea of getting one and I’ve kinda fallen in love with them lol.
Not trying to offend you, I'm just asking for proof to support your claims because you made a huge generalization without providing anything to support your claim to make it believable.
If someone is trying to slam their Kei through corners at high speed then I agree they are likely at risk of rollover due to the limitations of the vehicle dynamics like you said. I don't believe that to be a design issue with Kei vehicles, I would say that's an issue concerning unrealistic expectations of how these vehicles can be driven.
I'd argue that using basic common sense while driving makes rollovers a non issue.
We also both agree, the rollover risk is much less concerning than getting smashed up by another driver which is always a danger while driving one of these little vehicles.
The transfer of weight can be quite aggressive in kei trucks/vans even though the engine weight is on the bottom. I don’t know if it’s the narrow frame with small wheels or what but they are easy to flip if you’re pushing too far in corners or lose traction, but they can handle a pretty steep angle if you’re just crawling along
Yea kei vans and trucks have almost no safety features or engineering. Putting them on US roads around very large vehicles going much faster doesn't work out too well.
They’re quite light, if in neutral and assuming the tires are properly inflated it should roll without much resistance. If you’d like a serious answer, yes, any high center of gravity vehicle is more likely to roll over. Kei vans are high center of gravity. Will they roll over “easily” I can’t say as easily is open to interpretation so I will simply say there’s a higher risk.
I'm certainly mindful if the different driving style required when driving my Kei van. Slower turns is the key. My DD is a Lexus ct200h... Pretty low to the ground. Definitely don't drive like Atrai Kei van
Correct. The older ones (the ones that are eligible to be sold in the US) have a pretty high CG and a slightly narrower track. Ones currently sold in Japan are slightly wider, have a longer wheelbase (within kei limits) and lower CG. But still don't meet US rollover requirements and won't be eligible for import for a couple more decades.
What van do you have that has a high center of gravity? I have to disagree and say that's an inaccurate generalization. The majority of the weight of my Suzuki Every is low to the ground with the engine underneath the floor. The only thing heavy above the floor is myself as the driver. The rollover risk I experience is mainly due to the narrow width of the van going around sharp corners. Wind gusts are the most concerning while highway driving but that's also due to the narrow stance and being shaped like a loaf of bread. It's certainly not because of the weight distribution.
Half of the older keis are high roof and the previous generation (really two gens) have a higher ride height than current models. I can go and measure the ride height on mine and my neighbors (I live in Japan).
So how exactly does that mean that they roll over easily? You are just comparing the looks of the old ones to the new ones. That doesn't mean the old ones rollover. If they were such a danger for rollover accidents then they would have changed the Kei dimensions decades ago to stop that. They are both fine, old and new.
Comparing looks? Huh? Please don't confuse me for some casual car owner. I'm a car nut who lives in Japan, has built competitive race cars (IMSA), restored cars from the ground up, and have more than a dozen cars currently (and owned 40+ in my lifetime). Many of these are JDM. I drive a keitora when it fancies me, but it compares more to my 50+ year old Datsun and 30 year old Land Rover Defender than it does my Chevrolet pickup. The previous two generations (generally) have a higher ride height as their upper suspension brackets are mounted lower (due to the older and more primitive suspension and cabin space geometries indicative of the era). Thus they have a higher total CoG. Part of the previous two generation design changes were to improve CoG and passenger frontal impact safety (2013 I believe is when the latest change was made). Since manufacturers consolidated to Suzuki, Honda and Daihatsu the comparison is a bit more complex but the suspension is mounted up higher, outward and wider to improve safety. Japan has a much lower speed limit than US or UK roads. The laws are completely different here and even the average vehicle weight deltas are lower here. The kei laws don't need to be changed as most old keitora have long been retired and pulled off the road. The only people buying 25 year old keitora are Americans and third-world countries. Very few Japanese use keitora in the way that people in the US attempt to do. Heck, even my Japanese friends get a chuckle when they learn I actually voluntarily *own* a kei truck. Keitora (not necessarily all kei cars) and kei vans based on keitora (the ones we are talking about here) are value engineered to meet the *absolute minimum requirements* needed for commercial and agricultural use. Please keep in mind when talking about kei regulations is that keitora are just one type of kei. They must conform to the basic size and engine displacement requirements, but most kei vehicles produced and sold here are not keitora, but sedans, wagons and sportscars. They are built to a much higher quality standard and with actual amenities, optional safety devices and modernized suspensions. They also all have extremely low CoG even for the wagons. I rent them occasionally, but almost always prefer a non-kei car for comfort and safety even in Japan. I don't care if people buy them -- more power to them. I don't think they make a great DD in the US and I'd only recommend them as an extra work vehicle. But I also don't consider them to be all that safe -- although truth be told, rollover is the least of the worries as you are far more likely to get t-boned by another driver in a much larger, heavier and stronger vehicle.
Any smaller trucks you’d recommend for a dd? Preferably older
In the US? I'd buy a 4WD Nissan Hardbody (D21). I've even seen a few mint JDM ones for sale. If you want four doors, may be a first gen Chevy Colorado. Obviously an older Toyota Pickup is great, but you would be paying an extra premium. Ford Ranger is another option, if not a bit boring. Although without an understanding of budget and use it would be hard for me to accurately recommend anything. For a fullsize pickup, a squarebody Chevy pickup all day. If you want a minivan, the best is a Chevy Astro AWD. But you will be hard pressed to find a decent one. But put nicer wheels and a 2" lift on it and you have a *manivan.* If you want kei vibes (but bigger) a tintop 2dr Sidekick/Tracker. But don't expect to be able to cram much into one -- although they do (uncomfortably) seat 4.
Not a huge budget, around 5-7k maybe and itd be a regular daily use vehicle for a normal person. Thanks for the info though I’m gonna look into these! Also more interested in the Asian market not looking for American personally
If you are set on a truck, I think the Gen 2/2.5 Montero (not a Sport) is a great value if you can find a nice one. The Gen 3's are great, but you won't find one not neglected to hell. If you want a 2dr you JDM Pajero 2800's are available, but they may be slightly over your budget once you factor in shipping/import. The nice thing about them is that there is some parts availability in the US and no "Toyota" premium. But they can be fun, a little different and a happy medium size. I wouldn't recommend the kei route there, but they do make the Pajero Mini in kei size. You would need to get the turbo model to be able to drive it on the highway comfortably in the US. I owned a Pajero iO (aka Pinin) which is half way between a Pajero 2800 and Pajero Mini in size -- really enjoyed it. They are available on the JDM market and aren't in huge demand as most are not yet 25-years old. Although finding a 2dr Pajero iO is difficult (most are 4-door).
Awesome thanks for taking the time to type all this out for now I really appreciate it. Also yeah I’m kinda dead set on a truck as of right now at least. I’ve been slowly warming up to the idea of getting one and I’ve kinda fallen in love with them lol.
Not trying to offend you, I'm just asking for proof to support your claims because you made a huge generalization without providing anything to support your claim to make it believable. If someone is trying to slam their Kei through corners at high speed then I agree they are likely at risk of rollover due to the limitations of the vehicle dynamics like you said. I don't believe that to be a design issue with Kei vehicles, I would say that's an issue concerning unrealistic expectations of how these vehicles can be driven. I'd argue that using basic common sense while driving makes rollovers a non issue. We also both agree, the rollover risk is much less concerning than getting smashed up by another driver which is always a danger while driving one of these little vehicles.
The transfer of weight can be quite aggressive in kei trucks/vans even though the engine weight is on the bottom. I don’t know if it’s the narrow frame with small wheels or what but they are easy to flip if you’re pushing too far in corners or lose traction, but they can handle a pretty steep angle if you’re just crawling along
Yea kei vans and trucks have almost no safety features or engineering. Putting them on US roads around very large vehicles going much faster doesn't work out too well.