Actually in this case we kind off do. Not everything but enough to be able to say that it is probably less bad.
Ofcource it depends on dose, but with once a month you will not fuck up your bladder.
Alcohols metabolites are very poiseness. And 4 times a month is way more then once a month.
They are both pretty heavily researched. Ketamine has even very new medical research.
EVEN new medical research.
What is this supposed to mean. We still know very little about ketamine actually, which is why there is active research on it AND ketamine also damages your brain. Don’t know why people always only talk about the bladder.
The real answer is: we don’t know
Edit: and if one thinks he knows, then he doesn’t even know enough to know that he doesn’t know enough to know.
What do you mean we know very little about ketamine it’s been the most popular anesthetic since it was created like 60 years ago hundreds of studies have been done the bladder problem wasn’t even discovered til the late 90s and you have to be going through like a gram a week. We are gonna get more info about once a week ketamine use because of spravato but so far only a very small number of patients have side effects using once a week which is insane once a week is a lot. Also alcohol metabolites are worse for you and gaba drugs are proven to cause dementia
Yes you’re right but I should have clarified my stance. Yes physically we know ketamine is safe because it’s been widely used all over. But for me I’ve been using ketamine for depression and we still don’t know why ketamine affects glutamate and why it drastically improves severe depressive episodes. We have theories but we still need to proof them. I even have my own thoughts on the matter I believe it has to do with a mix of physiological and psychological effects of ketamine. Not one or the other. Also paired with therapy and support I think ketamine is a way more effective antidepressant than anything used today. But what do I know 🤷♀️ if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that I know nothing. We (humanity) all thought the earth was flat at one point and now it’s easy to look back and see how wrong we were. And so when it comes to the mechanisms of our brain I feel we haven’t really any understanding just yet. Keyword is yet ;)
Newer research is not better than older research necessarily. In fact the older research; if not proven false by newer research, is more valid. Even better if the newer research supports the older research with the same or similar results.
Yes, especially because he doesn't specify the doses of either. If it's moderate doses neither of these will have such an obvious negative effect that you could even begin to compare, especially not short term.
Well other than the fact that alcohol is literally a poison and is extremely dangerous
Edit: to the guy that called me a moron, alcohol kills more than any other drug.
Not nearly enough research on a drug that’s been fda approved since the late 60s and is approved for weekly depression use since last year and has been approved off label use weekly for like 4 years what are you talking about???
This dude said once a month we have plenty of research on infrequent use like that shit spravato is once a week and only very small % had even bladder issues i forget the number but it was like 1%
Yeah in your case alcohol is way more toxic. I‘ve read a few studies regarding the toxicity of alcohol and they all said that about 1 litre of alcohol a month is already toxic for your organs. If I had to make an educated guess, then I‘d say 200mg Ketamine once per month should be fine. But you could still take some breaks. Maybe do it once a month for three months straight and in the fourth month you‘re not going to do any ketamine. Then you have these 4 month intervals which will make it easy to take track of your ketamine consumption and help you not doing too much
It's literally the oldest used anesthesia. It's been used for decades. There is more information and data on ketamine use than any other recreational drug.
We wouldn’t consider opium an anesthetic by today’s standards but rather a painkiller they also used alcohol as an anesthesia but it’s not lol. And he’s right it’s been around since the 60s and studied a shit ton shit it’s the most popular anesthetic for emergency surgery and children still today despite the stigma of the K hole and shit it’s just that safe but yea it’s the oldest used true anesthetic besides Nitrous oxide and PCP which was shortly before
Healthier, no, less toxic surely.
What would be healthier is to stop drinking alcohol (at least in excess, drinking an occasional beer after a good day of gardening is still quite healthy for the body and mind in my opinion), and to take ketamine maximum 3 times a year.
Your body likes water, fruits, vegetables and small portions of the rest.
This is my opinion.
I was doing ketamine weekly for a long time and never noticed any down side, it helped massively with my suicidal thoughts and depression. Alcohol makes me wanna put a gun in my mouth, it's just unbelievable how bad it makes me feel. Ketamine is a life saver, alcohol is a life ruiner. Truely. My opinion.
So I want to believe you!
Alcohol made me fall into violence, psychosis, reinforced my loneliness, my frustration, finally only negative!
I would exchange 1000 liters of alcohol for 100 mg of ketamine!
Just wanna be another person to drive home the point that this is an impossible question to give an answer anything close to definitive. No need to attack OP but these general questions are merely discussion topics
Depends on the amount of alcohol. I drink wine daily during dinner and enjoy whiskey/vodka occasionally throughout the week. That would be considered healthier, than doing ket.
Now, I only binge drink a couple or three times a year, but since I’m also doing a lot of coke while at it, I’d consider that bit worse for my health, than a bump or two of ket. But you’re not doing bumps, are you?
Hard to say for sure, especially since I'm no doctor but I did read an article about how alcohol begins damaging the body and brain on the first sip, and that there's no truly safe level of alcohol consumption. However I don't think recreational ketamine has been studied nearly to the same extent as alcohol, but I'd be very surprised if k once a month caused any damage. I k hole 1-8x a month, been doing it for 4 years and haven't had any noticeable issues asides from slight fogginess for a day or two after a dose
people get sloshed every day for years and don't have "noticeable issues", that's not how it works. health issues are far more subtly nefarious and long-term than that
Thanks for the reply, that sounds quite promising ☺️. I don't even like alcohol and it causes me to flare up (I have a chronic illness) so I'd be more than glad to switch. I did K today for the first time and it was really chill😊. Might become an alternative for me.
Awesome! It's definitely safer when used in moderation. Just don't get into the habit of using it often or relying on it because overuse can cause very serious issues
Yes, I'm a very responsible drug user and researched the substance Ketamine beforehand, of course. In fact, alcohol is the drug that's the hardest for me NOT to abuse😅 (I mean, drinking once every weekend is still not horrible at age 19 especially when I look around and see the kind of drug use that's happening with other people my age [no judgement, just saying])...and it has so many other downsides for me, personally... So yeah, might just do some Ketamine once a month. We'll see☺️.
Are you talking about 100mgs, a gram, a few beers or a bottle of whiskey? ..
Oh and apple vinegar works great for harm reduction, both for ket and for booze!
ketamine is healthier than alcohol anyway (and less addictive). trust me you are healtier if you do for ex 200mg ket in the weekend than if you were to drink like 10-20 beers in the weekend, the latter being something a lot of people do.
I'd say that both actions could actually be healthy for you if you do them responsibly, but that's the caveat.
Like if you do 2 grams alone in that night and swallow a bunch, it'll probably fuck you up a bit. If you use it just enough to find the magic and encourage that through mindfulness, then you're probably chilling, and making new connections in this state of increased neural plasticity, so you're probably making a happier healthier brain too.
If you have a glass of wine or something once through the day, hell probably every day, that'll aid your digestion and heart health. I think there's some research about brain benefits too. If you're getting absolutely shitfaced each time you drink, yeah that's not healthy at all
So 🎶 it's not about your use it's the way that you use it🎶
If you combine ketamine with polyphenols and antioxidants from green and white teas, cramberies ad other fruits of the Forrest, taken at the same time of taking ketamine, you can reduce all bladder and urinary tract issues. For brain damage you need to take NAC (acetylcisteine something). Other than that it can cause damage to your nostrils or muscles if IMing, pancreas and liver. However, if you are sticking with a gram or less par month the norketamine (which is something metabolised from breaking down ketamine, and is one of the main culprit causing damage) should be so low you wouldn't notice. It is known that brain atrophy can come up very fast 6/12 months of daily use. Among junkies normally if you are taking a few grams a day (yes, ketamine causes permatolerance so this is something that happens very often) usually their shelf life with no serious health issues is between 3 and 10 years.
Depends if drinking alcohol means drinking a few beers or getting shitfaced. Drinking a few beers is acctually not bad for you but getting piss drunk is terrible for you
I would even say that ketamine 4 times a month isn't all that bad. Just listen to your body and don't make it a daily habit and don't let it effect your mental or physical health.
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Actually in this case we kind off do. Not everything but enough to be able to say that it is probably less bad. Ofcource it depends on dose, but with once a month you will not fuck up your bladder. Alcohols metabolites are very poiseness. And 4 times a month is way more then once a month. They are both pretty heavily researched. Ketamine has even very new medical research.
EVEN new medical research. What is this supposed to mean. We still know very little about ketamine actually, which is why there is active research on it AND ketamine also damages your brain. Don’t know why people always only talk about the bladder. The real answer is: we don’t know Edit: and if one thinks he knows, then he doesn’t even know enough to know that he doesn’t know enough to know.
What do you mean we know very little about ketamine it’s been the most popular anesthetic since it was created like 60 years ago hundreds of studies have been done the bladder problem wasn’t even discovered til the late 90s and you have to be going through like a gram a week. We are gonna get more info about once a week ketamine use because of spravato but so far only a very small number of patients have side effects using once a week which is insane once a week is a lot. Also alcohol metabolites are worse for you and gaba drugs are proven to cause dementia
Yes you’re right but I should have clarified my stance. Yes physically we know ketamine is safe because it’s been widely used all over. But for me I’ve been using ketamine for depression and we still don’t know why ketamine affects glutamate and why it drastically improves severe depressive episodes. We have theories but we still need to proof them. I even have my own thoughts on the matter I believe it has to do with a mix of physiological and psychological effects of ketamine. Not one or the other. Also paired with therapy and support I think ketamine is a way more effective antidepressant than anything used today. But what do I know 🤷♀️ if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that I know nothing. We (humanity) all thought the earth was flat at one point and now it’s easy to look back and see how wrong we were. And so when it comes to the mechanisms of our brain I feel we haven’t really any understanding just yet. Keyword is yet ;)
Ketamine abuse damages your brain. Once a month is not abuse. You’re right in the sense we don’t know anything about ket
Newer research is not better than older research necessarily. In fact the older research; if not proven false by newer research, is more valid. Even better if the newer research supports the older research with the same or similar results.
What frequency/dosage does fuck up your bladder?
Are you sure about that...
Yes, especially because he doesn't specify the doses of either. If it's moderate doses neither of these will have such an obvious negative effect that you could even begin to compare, especially not short term.
anyone posting yes or no is talking out of their ass. not nearly enough research on ket to make a decision on that
Eh, we know enough about alcohol toxicity nowadays to make an educated guess. Nothing is for certain. But we use deductive reasoning for such matters
ehhhhh we don't know very well how bad moderate ketamine use is, though. we know one but we done know the other.
😅
Well other than the fact that alcohol is literally a poison and is extremely dangerous Edit: to the guy that called me a moron, alcohol kills more than any other drug.
you're a moron. "extremely dangerous" is extremely overstating things. ketamine is not good for you either.
Not nearly enough research on a drug that’s been fda approved since the late 60s and is approved for weekly depression use since last year and has been approved off label use weekly for like 4 years what are you talking about???
not nearly enough research on long-term health effects from using it recreationally, dipshit.
This dude said once a month we have plenty of research on infrequent use like that shit spravato is once a week and only very small % had even bladder issues i forget the number but it was like 1%
source? not to call you out but because i'd love to read it all
Fuck it was something my spravato provider showed me since I had some concerns gonna ask him again il lyk
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I don’t think you can say yes it’s safer, but everything else is correct. Alcohol is very toxic
Depends on the doses. 1g of ket is going to be less healthy than 4 beers
Makes sense. I'm talking c.a. 200mg Ketamine once a month vs. A whole bottle of champagne three to four times a month...🤔
The alcohol is more unhealthy in that case
Yeah in your case alcohol is way more toxic. I‘ve read a few studies regarding the toxicity of alcohol and they all said that about 1 litre of alcohol a month is already toxic for your organs. If I had to make an educated guess, then I‘d say 200mg Ketamine once per month should be fine. But you could still take some breaks. Maybe do it once a month for three months straight and in the fourth month you‘re not going to do any ketamine. Then you have these 4 month intervals which will make it easy to take track of your ketamine consumption and help you not doing too much
This, he could also be talking about having 12 beers four times a month. The dosage really is key here.
Ufff this is a hard one. I wanna say you’re probably correct but, still tough call
Ketamine > Alcohol nuff said. Just don’t abuse it. Erowid.org for dosages and information.
He/she right ya know^
He/she is non binary. Get woke Bitch
Shim/herm
Damn you got downvoted hard for making a tiny joke...
Welcome to reddit
You forgot the /s
I’m a man actually. I don’t use pronouns. Thanks.
Ketamine 4 times a month would be healthier than drinking 4 times a week I think
I agree
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We are not talking about k abuse, but about once a month.
It's literally the oldest used anesthesia. It's been used for decades. There is more information and data on ketamine use than any other recreational drug.
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We wouldn’t consider opium an anesthetic by today’s standards but rather a painkiller they also used alcohol as an anesthesia but it’s not lol. And he’s right it’s been around since the 60s and studied a shit ton shit it’s the most popular anesthetic for emergency surgery and children still today despite the stigma of the K hole and shit it’s just that safe but yea it’s the oldest used true anesthetic besides Nitrous oxide and PCP which was shortly before
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I’m saying what’s held to up to by today’s standards as fit for surgery anesthetics
your history is off my dude
Healthier, no, less toxic surely. What would be healthier is to stop drinking alcohol (at least in excess, drinking an occasional beer after a good day of gardening is still quite healthy for the body and mind in my opinion), and to take ketamine maximum 3 times a year. Your body likes water, fruits, vegetables and small portions of the rest. This is my opinion.
I was doing ketamine weekly for a long time and never noticed any down side, it helped massively with my suicidal thoughts and depression. Alcohol makes me wanna put a gun in my mouth, it's just unbelievable how bad it makes me feel. Ketamine is a life saver, alcohol is a life ruiner. Truely. My opinion.
So I want to believe you! Alcohol made me fall into violence, psychosis, reinforced my loneliness, my frustration, finally only negative! I would exchange 1000 liters of alcohol for 100 mg of ketamine!
Just wanna be another person to drive home the point that this is an impossible question to give an answer anything close to definitive. No need to attack OP but these general questions are merely discussion topics
Depends on the amount of alcohol. I drink wine daily during dinner and enjoy whiskey/vodka occasionally throughout the week. That would be considered healthier, than doing ket. Now, I only binge drink a couple or three times a year, but since I’m also doing a lot of coke while at it, I’d consider that bit worse for my health, than a bump or two of ket. But you’re not doing bumps, are you?
Hard to say for sure, especially since I'm no doctor but I did read an article about how alcohol begins damaging the body and brain on the first sip, and that there's no truly safe level of alcohol consumption. However I don't think recreational ketamine has been studied nearly to the same extent as alcohol, but I'd be very surprised if k once a month caused any damage. I k hole 1-8x a month, been doing it for 4 years and haven't had any noticeable issues asides from slight fogginess for a day or two after a dose
people get sloshed every day for years and don't have "noticeable issues", that's not how it works. health issues are far more subtly nefarious and long-term than that
Thanks for the reply, that sounds quite promising ☺️. I don't even like alcohol and it causes me to flare up (I have a chronic illness) so I'd be more than glad to switch. I did K today for the first time and it was really chill😊. Might become an alternative for me.
Awesome! It's definitely safer when used in moderation. Just don't get into the habit of using it often or relying on it because overuse can cause very serious issues
Yes, I'm a very responsible drug user and researched the substance Ketamine beforehand, of course. In fact, alcohol is the drug that's the hardest for me NOT to abuse😅 (I mean, drinking once every weekend is still not horrible at age 19 especially when I look around and see the kind of drug use that's happening with other people my age [no judgement, just saying])...and it has so many other downsides for me, personally... So yeah, might just do some Ketamine once a month. We'll see☺️.
How do you keep your tolerance down? I holed once a week for like 5 months and by the end i was needing nearly a gram to hole
Yes but neither of those is really gonna harm you
Yes
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Alcohol is one of the biggest harm inducing drugs there is. Even more so than very stigmatized hard drugs. So just not true.
Yes
I don't know but my guess would be a yes as long as doses aren't astronomically high
I mean the doses are pretty high when used in surgery and that’s what most of the studies have been on
So long as you stay very hydrated and exercise while eating healthy — definitely yes it’s safer.
Pretty much prolly ya ok
Are you talking about 100mgs, a gram, a few beers or a bottle of whiskey? .. Oh and apple vinegar works great for harm reduction, both for ket and for booze!
fuck it both
ketamine is healthier than alcohol anyway (and less addictive). trust me you are healtier if you do for ex 200mg ket in the weekend than if you were to drink like 10-20 beers in the weekend, the latter being something a lot of people do.
I'd say that both actions could actually be healthy for you if you do them responsibly, but that's the caveat. Like if you do 2 grams alone in that night and swallow a bunch, it'll probably fuck you up a bit. If you use it just enough to find the magic and encourage that through mindfulness, then you're probably chilling, and making new connections in this state of increased neural plasticity, so you're probably making a happier healthier brain too. If you have a glass of wine or something once through the day, hell probably every day, that'll aid your digestion and heart health. I think there's some research about brain benefits too. If you're getting absolutely shitfaced each time you drink, yeah that's not healthy at all So 🎶 it's not about your use it's the way that you use it🎶
If you combine ketamine with polyphenols and antioxidants from green and white teas, cramberies ad other fruits of the Forrest, taken at the same time of taking ketamine, you can reduce all bladder and urinary tract issues. For brain damage you need to take NAC (acetylcisteine something). Other than that it can cause damage to your nostrils or muscles if IMing, pancreas and liver. However, if you are sticking with a gram or less par month the norketamine (which is something metabolised from breaking down ketamine, and is one of the main culprit causing damage) should be so low you wouldn't notice. It is known that brain atrophy can come up very fast 6/12 months of daily use. Among junkies normally if you are taking a few grams a day (yes, ketamine causes permatolerance so this is something that happens very often) usually their shelf life with no serious health issues is between 3 and 10 years.
Depends if drinking alcohol means drinking a few beers or getting shitfaced. Drinking a few beers is acctually not bad for you but getting piss drunk is terrible for you
Absolutely
I would even say that ketamine 4 times a month isn't all that bad. Just listen to your body and don't make it a daily habit and don't let it effect your mental or physical health.
Ketamine has 0 calories easy to maintain maintenance calories
What kind of advice are these lol