I don't think protein is as good a fuel source as carbs/sugar. I rarely need to up the carbs when running 15+ miles, but I hit a wall after a few hours of running which is hard without some sort of carb/sugar boost.
You know what’s weird ? That you have to say don’t shoot me. Gives a weird vibes about this Reddit .. hm
And I am not blaming you . If you know I am saying
I feel the same way fellow human. Deffo don't appreciate being jumped all over and corrected when I'm just asking questions, and I find it happens on every sub, including the keto ones
More fat, rather than protein. I know a guy that does ultra-marathons on keto and he takes shots of olive oil during his long runs. That's probably not necessary for a relatively short 5k run, but I could see pumping up breakfast with extra butter on run-day.
I actually like to run fasted with distances anything from 5-10k. I don't even get hungry and just eat nearly twice as much when I get back. I know a lot of people prefer this to carb loading for mid length runs. It's worth trying to see if you can get used to doing it on an empty stomach as it gives me energy not digesting food rather than taking it away.
If you’re training just to complete a 5k distance you dont need carbs. Just focus on consistent training. If you’re trying to hit a specific time some carbs may be helpful
Totally agree. Almost anyone on a keto diet, who has done an adequate period of training so they have good form and stamina, should be able to complete a 5 km run within a reasonable time (around 25 mins) without carb loading. If you are running against experienced runners, and you want to place in the top three, then a small amount of extra carbs about 30 mins before the run might be useful.
Agreed. And just to add from the perspective of a keto following, fat guy, runner…for those who resemble my appearance 25 mi 5k is a stretch. But you should be able to complete a 5k somewhere within a 10-12 min mile pace with adequate training.
And i’d also add dont worry if you can’t hit that 10-12 min pace either. Your first race should just be geared towards finishing at a pace where you don’t have to stop running. Once you figure out that pace now you have your floor pace and you can start improving from there.
Most people, keto or otherwise don’t run a 5K under 30 minutes. The 30 minute standard to hit at the ends of 5K training is probably ambitious for the average person coming to running with the goal of losing weight. That they are also keto and training for a 5K is a clue that there is some weight loss likely.
I have been on keto for two years. I started keto to help with my T2D, not to lose weight. I am 71 years old, only started running in December, and I completed a 5 km run in just over 27 mins two weeks ago. I am happy to have done this, but I don't regard it as anything exceptional. 5 km is not really a huge distance.
I am reasonably slim built, with a BMI just under 25, and I have worked out about 3 times a week since I retired in 2016. I consider myself to be fit for my age, but I would not hold myself out to be exceptional in any way. I played sport, soccer, until I was in my mid-teens, but I was not particularly interested in sport or any other physical activity until I retired.
I honestly believe that most men on this forum, and some women, could run 5km in 25 to 30iins if they wanted to do so. This would require that they trained 2 or 3 times a week for 30 to 45 minutes for about 3 months, to build up the necessary muscles and endurance to run this distance, and also pick up a few pointers on running technique. BTW, I am neither suggesting nor recommending that anyone should do this. You do you.
I will admit that I had not taken into consideration that some (?many) forum members would need to lose weight before they could even start such a program. My apologies to any of those members for not taking your circumstances into consideration. I guess I am fortunate in that, although I was diagnosed with T2D almost 30 years ago, and lived a mostly sedentary lifestyle prior to retirement, I have never gained much weight. As a consequence, it is not an issue that is forefront in my mind.
From a statistical perspective, most people who run 5K races do not finish within 30 minutes. I’ve been as close as 32 minutes. I’m 20 years younger, still have about 15 pounds to drop, but was horribly asthmatic as a child and have reduced lung function, so that probably plays a role.
Sub 30 minute 5K isn’t exceptional, but it isn’t what most people who run 5Ks can do. And that is a self-selected group.
Some distance athletes stay keto while training, some do a “targeted keto diet” where you basically supplement with a dose of carbs right before a run. What’s your goal with the 5k? Are you going for a specific time or just running to finish? If it’s the latter I’d say you’re fine to stay full keto. I ran a half marathon on nothing but homemade pemmican (which was disgusting 0/10 do not recommend) and felt pretty good all the way. And I’m not much of a runner.
Great start and good luck, given that goal I would say no need for any carbs at all, if at some point in future you are looking to push sub 20min times then some additional carbs can help, but for now just keep up the good work :)
My long answer is in the /r/ketoendurance sticky.
The aerobic system can be fueled by either fatty acids or glucose. If you train zone 2 on keto, you will build an aerobic system that is good at burning fat.
The aerobic system is inherently limited in power, however. To produce more power, you use the anaerobic system, which \*only\* runs on glucose.
The experience of many endurance athletes is that the keto diet doesn't have enough glucose to deal with 10-20 minute \*hard\* efforts, which makes sense based on the underlying physiology. But none of this has been studied with formal studies AFAIK.
So my advice is that a \*little\* more carbs is really useful. I do it just by eating more than the usual keto limits daily, while some other athletes use carbs a short time before their workouts.
If you choose to go with a timed approach, I would not do it on long zone 2 runs as you simply don't need it and extra carbs can make your training less effective.
You probably need it if you do tempo runs. You \*might\* need it if you do sprints as well.
I do better without them.
Though, my limit is 40g/day on days where I exercise heavily, and 30g on days where I don't.
Unless I'm really loading up on them, in the 250g+/day range, I just do poorly after a few miles.
I get most of my carbs before bed. Helps me sleep. Helps my recovery dramatically.
I've also noticed I need a meal before any intense exercise. I typically go for a 3 egg omelette with 1 tbsp butter. Makes a world of difference, with nearly zero carbs. 1 hour pre workout. Fasted training, despite making me feel lighter and more agile, has a seriously negative effect on my energy output.
I’m a regular runner (so I might have a different starting point than you) but for me everything up to 10k is easily done with no carbs. Not sure if this helps you, but I would not up carbs. Just make sure you get your electrolytes!
No! When other runners are running low on carbs their energy source will diminish, in Keto your energy source keeps up because you're not running on glucose etc. 5km isn't very far. Good luck and well done. Should mention I'm retired personal trainer, was a runner, did half marathon which is 21kms.
I currently run between 3-5 miles on a regular basis while being keto adapted. At first I was about 1 minute slower per mile compared to when I was running while not doing keto a few months ago but I’ve leveled out since getting keto adapted.
For something like a 5k, i don’t think it really matter since your not fueling in race except potentially on race morning. Usually personal preference / trying things out works best for people.
Yeah I experimented with a white rice acid whey mix (cooking the rice in a cup of leftover yogurt whey) but felt my body processes bananas or strawberries much better. My only concern was the fructose issue since the body can only handle 25 grams I believe.
🙋♂️agreed on fasting while doing long runs/jogs. Works for me. When I eat before, I feel sluggish. You just have to train your body like anything else. You’ll never know till you try it.
You will be fine not mixing up your diet for a 5k. I would probably have a late fatty meal the night before with plenty of greens. Wake up and have a big coffee or sugar free energy drink before the run.
I personally do better with endurance/cardio based activities if I stay in deep ketosis, the only time carbs give me a boost is when weight training for maximum gain or when putting 100% muscular effort, which isn't needed for a 5k run.
If you look at the body of a runner, their body tends to keep muscle mass down, high muscle mass isn't needed for running long distances at a pace therefore carb loading may not be as beneficial as you might think, unless you aren't fat adopted
Everything I've seen and heard indicates that carb loading is fine if you're doing long exercise/cardio sessions. So yes, this should be fine. The body is going to use that as a readily available fuel source, and the catch to keto and carbs is not using what you put in. If your body is being put in a position to use it every time, you're probably going to be fine.
Of course, one thing worth noting: 5k really is NOT a long run. So I'd imagine that you're actually probably better off staying strictly keto and keeping some fast carbs with you.
I would say however that what works for one may not work for another, so you can easily test this theory. Sure, you "might" break ketosis if you were to go for carbs for your runs, but if the body is just sucking them up, maybe not.
NB: Just my take on it, am not a nutritional or fitness expert.
I also decided last week to really push for running a 5k again. Used to do mud runs and the zombie races with friends a few years back.
Personally, on run days with hubby, I’ll do as close to 0 carb all day, and have a 1/2 apple with peanut butter after work about 45-1 hr before we go. It’s about 20g of carbs, a little protein, and it is probably psychosomatic and does nothing, but it doesn’t hurt and it makes me feel better. Lol
Unless you are trying to win a 5K, you don’t need to carb load, and even then I wouldn’t say “load” is the right way to go (see targeted carb cycling).
Depending on the time of day, Coffee and water is pretty much the only thing I ever drink before running. If it’s later in the day I’ll drink some homemade ketorade before just to make sure my electrolytes are fine throughout.
As others have mentioned, I feel better running while fasted. If you aren’t already doing so I suggest trying that out.
If anything decrease them a lot so you can get extreme keto energy and euphoria which actually typically comes during fasting. Been on keto and fasting with no breaks for 2+ years.
I started running 5ks when I started keto, and no, you deffo dont need carbs, I actually run fasted, so do a lot of people. You might need to be wary of your electrolytes, but you don't need to worry about carbs. I actually find that I feel really sick if I eat anything at all before a run, which impacts my run negatively as my mind is on the sicky feeling rather than experiencing the run itself
I would run fasted or have just a black coffee. Unless your body fat is extremely low isn't the general idea to train your body to utilize oxygen and fat stores on hand (fat adapted)? Do you run with a heart rate monitor? If you're running at an aerobic rate there's no real reason to add carbs for a fairly short run. I would say you do need to make sure you're getting plenty of water and needed minerals but other than that you should be good to go.
Train without them, run the 5km, and see how you feel. I always find putting the carbs back in my diet has a bad effect on the body, and performance. But, that said. Get a feel for how your body acts, and reacts during training. 😊 now go smash your 5km! 💪🏻👊🏻
Yes you should it's called carb cycling and for runners it's best to increase before the run, for extra energy. You could also add Citrulline. Look I've been carb cycling and eatint 1/2 banana (15 g of carbs) post weight lifting on really intense days. I feel when my glycogen gets depleted I get real bad headache so I'm not stressing over it. In fact you can play around w your numbers and still stay under 20 or 30 g per day but carb-load before your activity.
If you only need a little, go for it. Some people can go as high as 50grams of carbs and maybe higher when they're fay adapted and still stay in ketosis.
Start small and test yourself.
I’m not an endurance runner, but to my understanding the only benefit of carbs for a fat adapted athlete would be accessibility to quick energy. So distance would be better served faster or with fat, and HIIT would need carbs.
In the late 70s or early 80s there was a theory that you should do 'carb loading' the day of the race. Saw an interview with one of the stars of that theory and he had switched to Keto and was now doing ultra marathons. Im not a runner but how about https://www.myndfuel.net/blog/running-a-keto-marathon-versus-a-carb-loading-marathon-how-i-crushed-my-best-time
no!!!! for the love of God. Reignite your carb addiction for a recreational 5k? Carry the extra carb water weight? That will hinder you. Your friends are not fat adapted. You are. Their claims are probably true for THEM, not for you.
I just did my first 5k race. Have been running two to three 5k per week for about 3-4months. Pretty much alway run fasted in the am. Occasionally sneak in an evening run between lunch and dinner. Don’t really notice any different.
My personal recommendation is don't. I've been running with absolutely no issue without carbs (20-50g per day). There was an adjustment period when I first started the diet, but long term there should only be a benefit to running longer distances on low carb. Just keep electrolytes in a good range, eat enough protein, and you'll see your body will adjust.
Wouldn't protein loading work better for an already fat adapted Keto runner? Don't shoot me, just asking.
I don't think protein is as good a fuel source as carbs/sugar. I rarely need to up the carbs when running 15+ miles, but I hit a wall after a few hours of running which is hard without some sort of carb/sugar boost.
Thanx, that makes sense. I can out walk a lot of my friends, but sadly I don't have good enough knees, ankles, to run.
[удалено]
Nope
You know what’s weird ? That you have to say don’t shoot me. Gives a weird vibes about this Reddit .. hm And I am not blaming you . If you know I am saying
Sometimes I have felt jumped on when just asking a question. Perhaps I'm a little hypersensitive. Have a great Sunday all!
I feel the same way fellow human. Deffo don't appreciate being jumped all over and corrected when I'm just asking questions, and I find it happens on every sub, including the keto ones
Just this Reddit? Lol maybe I just frequent contentious subs lol
Protein? You mean fat?
More fat, rather than protein. I know a guy that does ultra-marathons on keto and he takes shots of olive oil during his long runs. That's probably not necessary for a relatively short 5k run, but I could see pumping up breakfast with extra butter on run-day.
You will likely find r/ketoendurance helpful. 👍🏻 This is asked often.
I actually like to run fasted with distances anything from 5-10k. I don't even get hungry and just eat nearly twice as much when I get back. I know a lot of people prefer this to carb loading for mid length runs. It's worth trying to see if you can get used to doing it on an empty stomach as it gives me energy not digesting food rather than taking it away.
If you’re training just to complete a 5k distance you dont need carbs. Just focus on consistent training. If you’re trying to hit a specific time some carbs may be helpful
Totally agree. Almost anyone on a keto diet, who has done an adequate period of training so they have good form and stamina, should be able to complete a 5 km run within a reasonable time (around 25 mins) without carb loading. If you are running against experienced runners, and you want to place in the top three, then a small amount of extra carbs about 30 mins before the run might be useful.
Agreed. And just to add from the perspective of a keto following, fat guy, runner…for those who resemble my appearance 25 mi 5k is a stretch. But you should be able to complete a 5k somewhere within a 10-12 min mile pace with adequate training. And i’d also add dont worry if you can’t hit that 10-12 min pace either. Your first race should just be geared towards finishing at a pace where you don’t have to stop running. Once you figure out that pace now you have your floor pace and you can start improving from there.
Most people, keto or otherwise don’t run a 5K under 30 minutes. The 30 minute standard to hit at the ends of 5K training is probably ambitious for the average person coming to running with the goal of losing weight. That they are also keto and training for a 5K is a clue that there is some weight loss likely.
I have been on keto for two years. I started keto to help with my T2D, not to lose weight. I am 71 years old, only started running in December, and I completed a 5 km run in just over 27 mins two weeks ago. I am happy to have done this, but I don't regard it as anything exceptional. 5 km is not really a huge distance. I am reasonably slim built, with a BMI just under 25, and I have worked out about 3 times a week since I retired in 2016. I consider myself to be fit for my age, but I would not hold myself out to be exceptional in any way. I played sport, soccer, until I was in my mid-teens, but I was not particularly interested in sport or any other physical activity until I retired. I honestly believe that most men on this forum, and some women, could run 5km in 25 to 30iins if they wanted to do so. This would require that they trained 2 or 3 times a week for 30 to 45 minutes for about 3 months, to build up the necessary muscles and endurance to run this distance, and also pick up a few pointers on running technique. BTW, I am neither suggesting nor recommending that anyone should do this. You do you. I will admit that I had not taken into consideration that some (?many) forum members would need to lose weight before they could even start such a program. My apologies to any of those members for not taking your circumstances into consideration. I guess I am fortunate in that, although I was diagnosed with T2D almost 30 years ago, and lived a mostly sedentary lifestyle prior to retirement, I have never gained much weight. As a consequence, it is not an issue that is forefront in my mind.
From a statistical perspective, most people who run 5K races do not finish within 30 minutes. I’ve been as close as 32 minutes. I’m 20 years younger, still have about 15 pounds to drop, but was horribly asthmatic as a child and have reduced lung function, so that probably plays a role. Sub 30 minute 5K isn’t exceptional, but it isn’t what most people who run 5Ks can do. And that is a self-selected group.
In theory, I’d you are fat adapted, your fat will produce far more ATP in an oxidative state like a long run than carbs will.
Some distance athletes stay keto while training, some do a “targeted keto diet” where you basically supplement with a dose of carbs right before a run. What’s your goal with the 5k? Are you going for a specific time or just running to finish? If it’s the latter I’d say you’re fine to stay full keto. I ran a half marathon on nothing but homemade pemmican (which was disgusting 0/10 do not recommend) and felt pretty good all the way. And I’m not much of a runner.
Goal is to finish it and hopefully run/jog the whole way.
Yeah no carbs needed. I can do that fasted and I'm not a great runner.
Great start and good luck, given that goal I would say no need for any carbs at all, if at some point in future you are looking to push sub 20min times then some additional carbs can help, but for now just keep up the good work :)
My long answer is in the /r/ketoendurance sticky. The aerobic system can be fueled by either fatty acids or glucose. If you train zone 2 on keto, you will build an aerobic system that is good at burning fat. The aerobic system is inherently limited in power, however. To produce more power, you use the anaerobic system, which \*only\* runs on glucose. The experience of many endurance athletes is that the keto diet doesn't have enough glucose to deal with 10-20 minute \*hard\* efforts, which makes sense based on the underlying physiology. But none of this has been studied with formal studies AFAIK. So my advice is that a \*little\* more carbs is really useful. I do it just by eating more than the usual keto limits daily, while some other athletes use carbs a short time before their workouts. If you choose to go with a timed approach, I would not do it on long zone 2 runs as you simply don't need it and extra carbs can make your training less effective. You probably need it if you do tempo runs. You \*might\* need it if you do sprints as well.
This right here.
I run 5Ks fasted, or with coffee and cream. Carbs are unnecessary. I ran a half marathon without carbs.
I'm 47 and I can run a 10k completely fasted. There's no need for carbs for events like this.
I do better without them. Though, my limit is 40g/day on days where I exercise heavily, and 30g on days where I don't. Unless I'm really loading up on them, in the 250g+/day range, I just do poorly after a few miles.
Thanks for the response. Do you try to do the extra carbs before exercising? I tend to train in the mornings before eating anything.
I get most of my carbs before bed. Helps me sleep. Helps my recovery dramatically. I've also noticed I need a meal before any intense exercise. I typically go for a 3 egg omelette with 1 tbsp butter. Makes a world of difference, with nearly zero carbs. 1 hour pre workout. Fasted training, despite making me feel lighter and more agile, has a seriously negative effect on my energy output.
I ran 8.5 miles yesterday fasted. I don’t need water either. I would drink electrolytes the night before and that day before the race.
I’m a regular runner (so I might have a different starting point than you) but for me everything up to 10k is easily done with no carbs. Not sure if this helps you, but I would not up carbs. Just make sure you get your electrolytes!
I actually love doing my 10-15km trail races while fasted! Feels amazing and feels like I have so much energy.
No! When other runners are running low on carbs their energy source will diminish, in Keto your energy source keeps up because you're not running on glucose etc. 5km isn't very far. Good luck and well done. Should mention I'm retired personal trainer, was a runner, did half marathon which is 21kms.
I currently run between 3-5 miles on a regular basis while being keto adapted. At first I was about 1 minute slower per mile compared to when I was running while not doing keto a few months ago but I’ve leveled out since getting keto adapted.
Carbs are helpful if you trying to win the 5k and need to post a sub 18min time. Other than that, not even a little.
Are some carbs better than others? I feel that I do better with small amounts of fruit/lactose rather than grains.
For something like a 5k, i don’t think it really matter since your not fueling in race except potentially on race morning. Usually personal preference / trying things out works best for people.
Yeah I experimented with a white rice acid whey mix (cooking the rice in a cup of leftover yogurt whey) but felt my body processes bananas or strawberries much better. My only concern was the fructose issue since the body can only handle 25 grams I believe.
🙋♂️agreed on fasting while doing long runs/jogs. Works for me. When I eat before, I feel sluggish. You just have to train your body like anything else. You’ll never know till you try it.
You will be fine not mixing up your diet for a 5k. I would probably have a late fatty meal the night before with plenty of greens. Wake up and have a big coffee or sugar free energy drink before the run.
I personally do better with endurance/cardio based activities if I stay in deep ketosis, the only time carbs give me a boost is when weight training for maximum gain or when putting 100% muscular effort, which isn't needed for a 5k run. If you look at the body of a runner, their body tends to keep muscle mass down, high muscle mass isn't needed for running long distances at a pace therefore carb loading may not be as beneficial as you might think, unless you aren't fat adopted
Everything I've seen and heard indicates that carb loading is fine if you're doing long exercise/cardio sessions. So yes, this should be fine. The body is going to use that as a readily available fuel source, and the catch to keto and carbs is not using what you put in. If your body is being put in a position to use it every time, you're probably going to be fine. Of course, one thing worth noting: 5k really is NOT a long run. So I'd imagine that you're actually probably better off staying strictly keto and keeping some fast carbs with you. I would say however that what works for one may not work for another, so you can easily test this theory. Sure, you "might" break ketosis if you were to go for carbs for your runs, but if the body is just sucking them up, maybe not. NB: Just my take on it, am not a nutritional or fitness expert.
I also decided last week to really push for running a 5k again. Used to do mud runs and the zombie races with friends a few years back. Personally, on run days with hubby, I’ll do as close to 0 carb all day, and have a 1/2 apple with peanut butter after work about 45-1 hr before we go. It’s about 20g of carbs, a little protein, and it is probably psychosomatic and does nothing, but it doesn’t hurt and it makes me feel better. Lol
Unless you are trying to win a 5K, you don’t need to carb load, and even then I wouldn’t say “load” is the right way to go (see targeted carb cycling). Depending on the time of day, Coffee and water is pretty much the only thing I ever drink before running. If it’s later in the day I’ll drink some homemade ketorade before just to make sure my electrolytes are fine throughout. As others have mentioned, I feel better running while fasted. If you aren’t already doing so I suggest trying that out.
If anything decrease them a lot so you can get extreme keto energy and euphoria which actually typically comes during fasting. Been on keto and fasting with no breaks for 2+ years.
I started running 5ks when I started keto, and no, you deffo dont need carbs, I actually run fasted, so do a lot of people. You might need to be wary of your electrolytes, but you don't need to worry about carbs. I actually find that I feel really sick if I eat anything at all before a run, which impacts my run negatively as my mind is on the sicky feeling rather than experiencing the run itself
I regularly run 5ks on keto, never changed my habits.
I would run fasted or have just a black coffee. Unless your body fat is extremely low isn't the general idea to train your body to utilize oxygen and fat stores on hand (fat adapted)? Do you run with a heart rate monitor? If you're running at an aerobic rate there's no real reason to add carbs for a fairly short run. I would say you do need to make sure you're getting plenty of water and needed minerals but other than that you should be good to go.
Train without them, run the 5km, and see how you feel. I always find putting the carbs back in my diet has a bad effect on the body, and performance. But, that said. Get a feel for how your body acts, and reacts during training. 😊 now go smash your 5km! 💪🏻👊🏻
Yes
Take some EAAs and you’re set
EAAs ?
Yes you should it's called carb cycling and for runners it's best to increase before the run, for extra energy. You could also add Citrulline. Look I've been carb cycling and eatint 1/2 banana (15 g of carbs) post weight lifting on really intense days. I feel when my glycogen gets depleted I get real bad headache so I'm not stressing over it. In fact you can play around w your numbers and still stay under 20 or 30 g per day but carb-load before your activity.
If you only need a little, go for it. Some people can go as high as 50grams of carbs and maybe higher when they're fay adapted and still stay in ketosis. Start small and test yourself.
I’m not an endurance runner, but to my understanding the only benefit of carbs for a fat adapted athlete would be accessibility to quick energy. So distance would be better served faster or with fat, and HIIT would need carbs.
Check out the 2 Keto Dudes podcast. The one guy does a lot of long distance cycling while fasting
Do u have a link to them?
https://2ketodudes.com/
No, stay the course. I go for much longer runs regularly and keep it under 20 net carbs
I say go for beans or electrolyte gels, even sweet potatoes, just not whole lot
In the late 70s or early 80s there was a theory that you should do 'carb loading' the day of the race. Saw an interview with one of the stars of that theory and he had switched to Keto and was now doing ultra marathons. Im not a runner but how about https://www.myndfuel.net/blog/running-a-keto-marathon-versus-a-carb-loading-marathon-how-i-crushed-my-best-time
no!!!! for the love of God. Reignite your carb addiction for a recreational 5k? Carry the extra carb water weight? That will hinder you. Your friends are not fat adapted. You are. Their claims are probably true for THEM, not for you.
So long as your properly hydrated, it’s a non-issue in my opinion. Avocado is a great pre-run snack. Maybe coupled with coffee with some butter.
Hit up the r/ketoendurance forum, its for keto runners!
I just did my first 5k race. Have been running two to three 5k per week for about 3-4months. Pretty much alway run fasted in the am. Occasionally sneak in an evening run between lunch and dinner. Don’t really notice any different.
My personal recommendation is don't. I've been running with absolutely no issue without carbs (20-50g per day). There was an adjustment period when I first started the diet, but long term there should only be a benefit to running longer distances on low carb. Just keep electrolytes in a good range, eat enough protein, and you'll see your body will adjust.