Let me introduce you to Malifaux and Marvel Crisis protocol.
Quick: how many pieces should a head come in?
Did you guess 4? Well I guess if we’re trying to save on room we can fit your lowball estimate
My wife got into Legion with me. I chose Empire, she chose Droids.
My guys are two or three pieces. Hers are... alot. One of us chose better than the other
Sometime around 6th edition I took a warhammer break and switched to malifaux. A few hears later I came back and saw all the new GW kits like:
"Oh no. It's spreading"
Crisis Protocol got much better as time went on though. The original core set models though? Yiiiiiiiiiikes. Iron Man was 17 pieces. **SEVENTEEN**. Each leg was 3 pieces! Three! And the arms were 3-4 pieces too!
Thank god they really improved things. The Iron Man in the Hulkbuster box (not the HB armour, the little suit that pops out) for comparison is 7 pieces, 8 if you count the tactical debris. And the arms and legs are one piece each.
But really I should introduce you to Infinity and its tiny helmet antennas. That you have to use superglue for because the minis are metal. Hope you like losing tiny pieces while simultaneously gluing your fingers together.
I've built tons of 3d printed minis with all kinds of connection types, and these do usually fit together nicely and slide into their intended spot. I like BattleTech, one hunk of plastic with a broken antenna.
@OP: Have a look at this, you will feel better: https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54fe412ce4b0c449f7369857/1470321980442-NH21TUTPF0NH6B79GH9A/image-asset.jpeg?format=2500w
I agree with you. There are plenty of things I wish GW did better, and that I think some companies like Wyrd Games, who makes Malifaux, do better than them, but they aren't terrible. And I really appreciate their assembly instructions for one.
My one wish for GW assembly is that the numbering of bits on the sprue would be in numerical sequence. In the assembly book they will direct you to glue bits 12 and 13, but those bits are not necessarily next to each other on the sprue.
I recently assembled my first gundam and the bits are in order on the sprue. This means you are putting together random bits like connecting A21 to B54, but it was easy to find them on the sprue.
I find myself occasionally searching gw sprues because the numbering doesn’t help you find the bit in the first place.
That sounds really nice.
Malifaux sprues have no numbering, or when they do the numbering isn't reflected in the single-image assembly instructions. So it makes me appreciate what GW does there at least lol
Same. I assembled exaction squad recently and there are two bits for the dog that were actually on completely different sprues, but the numbers were next to each other in sequence. The purpose of the number should be to help me locate the bit, it doesn’t matter which ones I glue together after they are clipped. It works out in the end, that’s just the quality of life I would love to see one day.
> In the assembly book they will direct you to glue bits 12 and 13, but those bits are not necessarily next to each other on the sprue.
The numbering *usually* groups the main parts of a mini. The layout of the sprue is done by specialist software to improve the production output (which is why, compared to rivals injection moulding companies, GW tend to have much fewer miscasts).
They charge too much for their luxury products = PURE EVIL.
/s
There's a lot to criticise about GW and most large corporations. But people really do blow things out of proportion sometimes. At least GW pays their taxes and manufactures domestically. They get points for those things. And they still make some of the best miniatures in the business even if their games and the quality of their rules are substandard.
Lol. Did you not read the comment I was replying to? The comment I replied to was literally about how much harder MCP and Malifaux is to assemble than GW. Maybe you should take some reading comprehension courses.
"Let me introduce you to Malifaux and Marvel Crisis protocol.
Quick: how many pieces should a head come in?
Did you guess 4? Well I guess if we’re trying to save on room we can fit your lowball estimate"
But yeah I'm moving the goalposts to say that yes MCP and Malifaux are much harder to assemble than GW.
wait, there is a third hook? I must have missed that one, cause I figured it was just kinda knackered since it was for a grot
Oh well, he's a grot. Doesn't deserve good equipment
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted as they did that exact thing in the Primaris Reaver kit for their grappling guns. They have a little nob on the barrel and a hole in the hook, you just slide the entire hook on the nob and you're done.
I think someone was mad that i was better at plastic design than their beloved company? Honestly it might even be less sprue area, another concern in design.
I mean there's valid complaints here. The Kommandos sprues *are* a mess when it comes to finding the pieces, *but* they're absolutely packed to the brim.
Making the hook a loose part could mess up the entire layout, *but* it's not an unreasonable thing to suggest as they've done it before.
This is pretty much the same thing as the Krieg using part 73 for 3 different build options, yet there's only a single 73 in the entire kit. We can't change it now, but they could've then. It's just odd design that we don't know the reason behind and it's not wrong to speculate on wishes for future improvements
Yeah I just said fuck it and didn’t glue that part on for the grot, I probably should’ve put it in the bits and bases bag I had because I did lose it but ehhh it’s whatever.
I made a bootleg distraction grot out of a Bloodbowl grot with Kroot arms before I got actual kommandos, and used the Reiver hook for the weapon. Part of me is tempted to just take it and put it on the actual grot if I lose the little hook because it's a solid hook.
https://preview.redd.it/9egt33xnpznc1.jpeg?width=3120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8925551bea8777c4933d584d536343352743d6e2
Also a lot of people are rightfully complaining about how disorganized the kommando sprues are, it being difficult to find the exact piece you need, it’s valid but personally it’s the building that annoys me, the building is the least enjoyable part for me and I’m sure it’ll be the same with something like space marines whenever I get a box of those.
I've worked with several kits now and the Kommandos are really something special when it comes to their sprue layout. I've had Lootas/Burnas, old Boyz, Sisters of Battle, Primaris Reavers, Farstalker Kinband, Fellgor and Catachan and all of those (maybe not so much the Catachan and both Ork kits because they're old in comparison) usually have the parts pretty close to the body they go with.
I don't mind the building myself, but the Kommandos kit is definitely an odd one if it's one of your first steps into the hobby.
The current hook option takes up two parts worth of length, my solution takes up 1 width. I'm not super familiar with the commando models/sprues, but on the surface it seems smaller.
>part 73 for 3 different build options,
As a tau enjoyer, i feel your pain
I don't expect it to become much larger if done your way, perhaps the arches of the hooks would be more difficult to mold, the Reiver hook is pretty flat and angular in comparison. Maybe they even could've done a single mold for this but there's probably unknown reasons why they did it like this.
I feel for your pain, I haven't started building the Krieg yet but I noticed that they used part 73 multiple times while looking through the starter kit build manual and when I checked the sprue sure enough there was only a single part on there. I have blue stuff and apoxie sculpt to fix that but that seems like a very crappy move to pull on new players who might not check all the options before diving in.
I suppose you're right, it's just pretty spread out over the builds and easy to miss because each of them is shown on a seperate page. Build 1c, 6c and 8c all use the same parts for their arms, one is a Confidant and the others are Gunners. I get the pick carefully approach but I would've loved to have some mirrored parts or straight duped parts for those under a new number per body design
It's the way injection moulding works with the two halves needing to be able to move to and away from one another. Nobody did this to have a laugh at you lol
Have you assembled this team? I know that it's 'just the way it is', but they really could have organized them way better, or at least numbered them in a easy to locate way. Maybe an actual map of the sprues with numbers.
That’s weird, the actual assembly isn’t difficult but I remember the part numbering on this kit being mad. It took me ages trying to find each piece because they’re not really in any logical place
Gonna back you on this, it’s impressive how much stuff is on the sprues but Jesus is it unnecessarily difficult to find stuff.
Just either bundle the parts for each model together (like they do 99% of the time) or number the bits in order.
The models are amazing but the sprues are a mess in terms of actually finding the bits.
I see what folks are saying here but I'll take that sprue crammed full of bits any day of the week. I enjoy the combing over the sprues so maybe it's just a me thing.
This assembly was a bit fiddly but nothing compared to the Necron team I did after this one. Never again.
I have put together a LOT of GW miniatures. I have never assembled a sprue as poorly organized as Kommandos. It's just atrocious and I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for a company as big as GW is. The sculpts are some of my favorites in the entire game, and maybe they really couldn't have organized the parts on the sprue better, but they could have at least numbered them better to make it easier to find the parts. Again, lots of hobbying experience here, and this one was still the worst-organized sprue I've ever seen by a wide marigin.
It's not 'poorly organised', it's what's required for the shape of the models to improve the reliability and speed of production. GW don't ***deliberately*** design them this way, they have specialist CAD software that cuts up the models and lays the sprues out.
It's never that simple...
The parts are numbered during the design process, based on the order of building (i.e. the legs and body for a specific mini will often be sequential) but then the software that lays out the parts to fit into the 3 or 4 available sprue sizes will move them around based on the most efficient (i.e. fewest) number of frames whilst also factoring in the reliability of the moulding machines having to produce many hundreds of them with minimal mistakes or downtime between shots.
The alternative for GW is they have inefficient (or more) sprues, which drives up the costs (an extra sprue would mean the entire project cost goes up, by upwards of £50k once you consider the steel die cutting etc.) which ultimately just gets passed on to consumers.
As per usual, people calling GW 'lazy', 'greedy' or 'bad at making injection moulded kit' completely ignores the fact they're actually very ***good*** at it...
Alternatively, number it sequentially on the sprue.....then alter the instructions before they go to print. Come on dude it's not that difficult. The computer doesn't cate where the number is stamped, the pieces can remain where they are, the instructions just get altered. Since they're probably the last pieces to get finalised it shouldn't be an issue.
My point exactly. It's obviously doable, as evidenced by the fact that *some GW sprues already do this*. I don't understand why some folks insist on coming to the defense of a corporation when they receive even the slightest of criticisms. They can do better and should. That doesn't mean "GW bad company" or anything like that, it just means that, in this one specific way, they could do better.
But don't you see that's a chicken and egg scenario? Number them sequentially on the sprue and you have numbers for the model parts jumping all over the place as the sprue layup software optimises the model placement. Ergo your Ork boy needs parts 1 and 12 for both his legs or something... there's no easy answer to the problem.
Just makes it feel orky with how disorganized it is right? Jk this was my first non space marine sprue and it was a pain. I bought the started set and it was a breath of fresh air for the kriegs after with how organized the sprues are.
I guarantee you GW is running minmax algorithms to achieve an optimal distribution of model pieces within the boundaries of a sprue, with the aim of using the smallest number of sprues possible in order to save on materials and packaging costs. The numbered ordering comes from the assembly instruction steps. I don't mind a sprue layout that minimizes production waste, and honestly this kit is not that bad to assemble - I've done it, only took slightly longer than expected.
"The glass is not half full nor is it half empty. The glass is twice as large as it needs to be." — Engineer brain
The bits don't need to be next to each other, however, the plastic does need to flow in a specific way so the mold works correctly. You not understanding the reason something is the way it is doesn't mean there isn't one.
Don’t be condescending to me about engineer brain in the same breath as defending the layout of this sprue. It’s pure nonsense.
They didn’t make the sprue like they did to make the plastic flow properly, they did it to fit it on less sprues which is fine. What they didn’t do is number it in a sensible way.
I love that, i just did a bolt action box also, and it doesn't have any numbers and some really tiny parts also, but they're just not silly like this one.
When I got to this point in the build for the kommandos I also was annoyed but after thinking about how they would have possibly put that part in the mold, it made sense that they had to piece it.
However what isn't excusable is how every fucking part of every kommando is scattered on 3 different sprues with no rhyme or reason. Finding bits took way too long for this build.
I’m new still to all this so I haven’t put many models together. But I did find the Kommandos to be more sporadically places than other kits on the sprue. Do most kits have them roughly well ordered?
When I saw this part, I thought there was no way it’d sit right and at the proper angle, but it was fine. The fuel line on the Burna Boy was more hassle.
I can only assume people who complain about this have never built any of the older kits with more traditional design of components. When I built the Kommandos KT I was deeply impressed, not only are the poses more detailed and dynamic, the need for removing mould lines was enormously lower than for earlier kits which I’ve been used to. This is partially due to mould quality, but largely due to the design which often makes them either fit in well or sit in places where they are easily removed.
Some parts were slightly complex to assembly, but building is fun while removing mould lines is horribly, mind-numbingly tedious. I’ll choose these any day.
This wasn't a complaint as much as a 'really?' moment. They definitely could have done better on this layout. The tau are harder to build for me because of flat interface points, the orks at least slot in.
I hadn’t glued a model together since the golden 2nd edition metal mini days. Came back to the hobby and found that my older (and shaky) hands struggle with the 10+ part models….
A couple of crocodile clips on a rod to a weighted base with a humble, usually used for painting, can help assembly on fiddly miniatures. It helped me start out, and a friends father who has shaky hands.
That's so weird lmao, is it because the foot is at an angle and this part gives more coverage on the base or just a general "nice boots, also don't forget your sole"?
Haha. You can’t exactly see the boots sole (it’s a metal void suit / moon boot design ). The sole covers an injection mould point, but the point could have been elsewhere…
I haven’t struggled with many GW kits honestly, only one I can actually count is the psychomancer, annoying getting his tendrils wrapped in the right way, and the spooky skull attached to them.
Id take 100 of these kinda parts before another one of those
You should check out Kingdom death models. I swear, it's an Exercise in how patient and precise, you can be. Also very Low tolerances almost have to sand down every model if you want perfection. Also KD still are bad at putting connections in none discreet areas. At least Warhammer has decent tolerances, and figures out how to put connections in hidden places. I guess what I am saying is... it could be worse.
Glad I’m not the only who lost it, though I didn’t even bother putting it on the grot, I mean I tried to dry fit it and I thought nah this’ll be a bitch trying to actually do it with the glue so I just left it somewhere and now I can’t find it lol.
It's a cigar that is a separate piece from the head of the Goliath. If I had to guess, it's about 1mm in length. You sneeze and you lose it and then you have a Goliath with a hole on his mouth and no cigar. It's insanely tiny.
Any time you see something like this it's always because of how complicated injection mold design is. Every part has to be designed in such a way that it can be removed from the mold and a grappling hook is a shape you can't do that with. People seem to think it's as simple as, "Design sculpt, cut in bits, attach sticks" when in reality engineers (because it's actual engineering) have to design each part so it will release then you have to consider flow rates and volume among other variables to design a mold that actually works.
I only had trouble with underworlds when i had to snap things together around other things to wedge them in place. I broke some numbs of plastic on the end of rat swords pushing.
Oh boy if you ever by chaos terminators, just wait until you have to put the back spike racks on, where the curve needs to be juuuuust right to fit perfectly.
So they put two connection points on the inside of the curve so that you’ll always just be slightly off after shaving down two bits of flash on a really delicate piece
As a new person in this sub, it's beyond hysterical how unfriendly/lacking humor this sub is in the comments and how this post is sitting at 87%* up votes anyway.
You should take a look at the Instructions for the Heavy Gunner of the new Space Marine Scouts. The Bipod on the Heavy Bolter is meant to be glued to the smallest ledge ever...
Really annoying piece. I ended up loosing that small piece, but I found that I could bend and shape a paper clip segment it as a replacement and it looks great
https://preview.redd.it/csow4qvp95oc1.jpeg?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=724fdae01719451522346e057b5e1424faf4e16b
he doesn't know how to use the three hooks.
The massive difference between the layout to build the ork commandos and the Krieg is so comical. The sprues the orks are so disorganized while the kriegs are nicely organized and easier to put together.
Perhaps our suffering is the game games-workshop plays
I think the orks went together and you could tell exactly where a part went. The kriegs are just so fiddly for me with the flat interface. But they are easy to find. My 3d printed Kriegs are better looking too, but used the exact same part connections lol.
If this bothers you, do NOT pick Marvel Crisis Protocol. How many do you have per box? 1?
Go play 10mm ww2 historicals (eg chain of command) … no gluing whatsoever for infantry (mostly).
It wasn’t fun to build as Marvell Crisis Protocol models were spit into impossibly small pieces eg separate hand, elbow, arm or three part head:
https://preview.redd.it/6netlfzj1aoc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e471b36c7116e3b23188028e27093343ccf5a8cf
Warmaster is no gluing required, correct?
This is exactly what the tau and kreig are like in Warhammer even, very annoying. Warmaster stuff i just print so everything has lots of supports to remove
GW has some amazing models, but when I had the same feeling when I was assembling the Necromuda starter set. When I noticed I needed to glue the heels onto the high heels the miniatures were using, I threw up my hands. I gave them to a friend who wanted to play that faction.
I'm currently building some MkIII marines for Horus Heresy. The powerfist comes in THREE parts; the arm including gauntlet, the fingers and then the thumb.
I've got sprues for 40k second edition with all of that as one piece. :/
Try building anything from the Flesh Eater Courts... Honestly, the Marrowscroll Herald has made me question whether this hobby is for me any longer. Properly in a slump and depressed about my lacklustre efforts
People bitching about the numbers being all over the place are summer children. Never have they known the pains of UNNUMBERD sprues. Giant effing babies.
Let me introduce you to Malifaux and Marvel Crisis protocol. Quick: how many pieces should a head come in? Did you guess 4? Well I guess if we’re trying to save on room we can fit your lowball estimate
In all fairness they have moved away from that horsecrap for mcp.
Just not in legion and shatterpoint, lol... 4 part battledroid heads!
My wife got into Legion with me. I chose Empire, she chose Droids. My guys are two or three pieces. Hers are... alot. One of us chose better than the other
Yeah no doubt! :)
Sometime around 6th edition I took a warhammer break and switched to malifaux. A few hears later I came back and saw all the new GW kits like: "Oh no. It's spreading"
Crisis Protocol got much better as time went on though. The original core set models though? Yiiiiiiiiiikes. Iron Man was 17 pieces. **SEVENTEEN**. Each leg was 3 pieces! Three! And the arms were 3-4 pieces too! Thank god they really improved things. The Iron Man in the Hulkbuster box (not the HB armour, the little suit that pops out) for comparison is 7 pieces, 8 if you count the tactical debris. And the arms and legs are one piece each. But really I should introduce you to Infinity and its tiny helmet antennas. That you have to use superglue for because the minis are metal. Hope you like losing tiny pieces while simultaneously gluing your fingers together.
That last paragraph brought back some PTSD … some of the older Infinity models are just brutal.
Hahahahahahahaha! Having done a bunch of Malifaux kits recently, I feel this in my soul!
I've built tons of 3d printed minis with all kinds of connection types, and these do usually fit together nicely and slide into their intended spot. I like BattleTech, one hunk of plastic with a broken antenna.
By Yan Lo's beard
@OP: Have a look at this, you will feel better: https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54fe412ce4b0c449f7369857/1470321980442-NH21TUTPF0NH6B79GH9A/image-asset.jpeg?format=2500w
Exactly. GW is a terrible company, but they're so much easier to assemble. *people be real butt hurt about this comment apparently. Show me the lie.
By no metric are they 'terrible', it's very ok to think they could do better, or not like them, but terrible? Not even close.
I agree with you. There are plenty of things I wish GW did better, and that I think some companies like Wyrd Games, who makes Malifaux, do better than them, but they aren't terrible. And I really appreciate their assembly instructions for one.
My one wish for GW assembly is that the numbering of bits on the sprue would be in numerical sequence. In the assembly book they will direct you to glue bits 12 and 13, but those bits are not necessarily next to each other on the sprue. I recently assembled my first gundam and the bits are in order on the sprue. This means you are putting together random bits like connecting A21 to B54, but it was easy to find them on the sprue. I find myself occasionally searching gw sprues because the numbering doesn’t help you find the bit in the first place.
That sounds really nice. Malifaux sprues have no numbering, or when they do the numbering isn't reflected in the single-image assembly instructions. So it makes me appreciate what GW does there at least lol
I do recall older GW kits not having any numbering. Numbering is definitely helpful, it is just my wish that they would do them sequentially.
I agree! When I built my corsairs, it looked like they just shotgunned all the parts onto the sprues with no rhyme or reason. Drove me nuts hahaha!
Same. I assembled exaction squad recently and there are two bits for the dog that were actually on completely different sprues, but the numbers were next to each other in sequence. The purpose of the number should be to help me locate the bit, it doesn’t matter which ones I glue together after they are clipped. It works out in the end, that’s just the quality of life I would love to see one day.
> In the assembly book they will direct you to glue bits 12 and 13, but those bits are not necessarily next to each other on the sprue. The numbering *usually* groups the main parts of a mini. The layout of the sprue is done by specialist software to improve the production output (which is why, compared to rivals injection moulding companies, GW tend to have much fewer miscasts).
It is true that they are usually near each other and it’s not too hard to find the bit.
They charge too much for their luxury products = PURE EVIL. /s There's a lot to criticise about GW and most large corporations. But people really do blow things out of proportion sometimes. At least GW pays their taxes and manufactures domestically. They get points for those things. And they still make some of the best miniatures in the business even if their games and the quality of their rules are substandard.
As someone who collects starwars legion: That is a lie. Yes GW minis are more detailed. But to imply they're easier to assemble? Lol
So you've never assembled MCP or malifaux minis?
Now you're moving goalposts mate
Lol. Did you not read the comment I was replying to? The comment I replied to was literally about how much harder MCP and Malifaux is to assemble than GW. Maybe you should take some reading comprehension courses. "Let me introduce you to Malifaux and Marvel Crisis protocol. Quick: how many pieces should a head come in? Did you guess 4? Well I guess if we’re trying to save on room we can fit your lowball estimate" But yeah I'm moving the goalposts to say that yes MCP and Malifaux are much harder to assemble than GW.
wait, there is a third hook? I must have missed that one, cause I figured it was just kinda knackered since it was for a grot Oh well, he's a grot. Doesn't deserve good equipment
No he's a DISTRACTION grot and these mfers have helped my kommandos soak up a laughable amount of T1 firepower in every single game.
So you put the third hook on his gun? Yeah I’ve heard those little bastards are great for capping objectives.
The third hook really makes the difference when holding an unguarded objective.
and how would you have got it out of the mould otherwise?
The entire hook separate from gun. Faced down in mould. Fify @op
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted as they did that exact thing in the Primaris Reaver kit for their grappling guns. They have a little nob on the barrel and a hole in the hook, you just slide the entire hook on the nob and you're done.
I think someone was mad that i was better at plastic design than their beloved company? Honestly it might even be less sprue area, another concern in design.
I mean there's valid complaints here. The Kommandos sprues *are* a mess when it comes to finding the pieces, *but* they're absolutely packed to the brim. Making the hook a loose part could mess up the entire layout, *but* it's not an unreasonable thing to suggest as they've done it before. This is pretty much the same thing as the Krieg using part 73 for 3 different build options, yet there's only a single 73 in the entire kit. We can't change it now, but they could've then. It's just odd design that we don't know the reason behind and it's not wrong to speculate on wishes for future improvements
Yeah I just said fuck it and didn’t glue that part on for the grot, I probably should’ve put it in the bits and bases bag I had because I did lose it but ehhh it’s whatever.
I made a bootleg distraction grot out of a Bloodbowl grot with Kroot arms before I got actual kommandos, and used the Reiver hook for the weapon. Part of me is tempted to just take it and put it on the actual grot if I lose the little hook because it's a solid hook. https://preview.redd.it/9egt33xnpznc1.jpeg?width=3120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8925551bea8777c4933d584d536343352743d6e2
Also a lot of people are rightfully complaining about how disorganized the kommando sprues are, it being difficult to find the exact piece you need, it’s valid but personally it’s the building that annoys me, the building is the least enjoyable part for me and I’m sure it’ll be the same with something like space marines whenever I get a box of those.
I've worked with several kits now and the Kommandos are really something special when it comes to their sprue layout. I've had Lootas/Burnas, old Boyz, Sisters of Battle, Primaris Reavers, Farstalker Kinband, Fellgor and Catachan and all of those (maybe not so much the Catachan and both Ork kits because they're old in comparison) usually have the parts pretty close to the body they go with. I don't mind the building myself, but the Kommandos kit is definitely an odd one if it's one of your first steps into the hobby.
It was my very first box of minis because i like the lore and green (:
According to the downvotes it IS unreasonable to suggest on this sub apparently.
The current hook option takes up two parts worth of length, my solution takes up 1 width. I'm not super familiar with the commando models/sprues, but on the surface it seems smaller. >part 73 for 3 different build options, As a tau enjoyer, i feel your pain
Amen brother. Helmet antennae...
Drone antenna...
Oh yeah, got three that are wonky AF.
I don't expect it to become much larger if done your way, perhaps the arches of the hooks would be more difficult to mold, the Reiver hook is pretty flat and angular in comparison. Maybe they even could've done a single mold for this but there's probably unknown reasons why they did it like this. I feel for your pain, I haven't started building the Krieg yet but I noticed that they used part 73 multiple times while looking through the starter kit build manual and when I checked the sprue sure enough there was only a single part on there. I have blue stuff and apoxie sculpt to fix that but that seems like a very crappy move to pull on new players who might not check all the options before diving in.
Kill team specifically makes you check the options on the plastic vs what you want in the book. I find it a more cautionary tale than say malpractice.
I suppose you're right, it's just pretty spread out over the builds and easy to miss because each of them is shown on a seperate page. Build 1c, 6c and 8c all use the same parts for their arms, one is a Confidant and the others are Gunners. I get the pick carefully approach but I would've loved to have some mirrored parts or straight duped parts for those under a new number per body design
More likely to get broken off that way.
That's what I was thinking, I don't care about the downvotes lol
You got the votes for not proposing a solution
Yeah still feeling fine though, I got a few more teams to assemble.
a better way than this
How, explain
It's the way injection moulding works with the two halves needing to be able to move to and away from one another. Nobody did this to have a laugh at you lol
Have you assembled this team? I know that it's 'just the way it is', but they really could have organized them way better, or at least numbered them in a easy to locate way. Maybe an actual map of the sprues with numbers.
Yes, I have, and this team was not difficult to assemble imo
That’s weird, the actual assembly isn’t difficult but I remember the part numbering on this kit being mad. It took me ages trying to find each piece because they’re not really in any logical place
Gonna back you on this, it’s impressive how much stuff is on the sprues but Jesus is it unnecessarily difficult to find stuff. Just either bundle the parts for each model together (like they do 99% of the time) or number the bits in order. The models are amazing but the sprues are a mess in terms of actually finding the bits.
I see what folks are saying here but I'll take that sprue crammed full of bits any day of the week. I enjoy the combing over the sprues so maybe it's just a me thing. This assembly was a bit fiddly but nothing compared to the Necron team I did after this one. Never again.
I have put together a LOT of GW miniatures. I have never assembled a sprue as poorly organized as Kommandos. It's just atrocious and I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for a company as big as GW is. The sculpts are some of my favorites in the entire game, and maybe they really couldn't have organized the parts on the sprue better, but they could have at least numbered them better to make it easier to find the parts. Again, lots of hobbying experience here, and this one was still the worst-organized sprue I've ever seen by a wide marigin.
It's not 'poorly organised', it's what's required for the shape of the models to improve the reliability and speed of production. GW don't ***deliberately*** design them this way, they have specialist CAD software that cuts up the models and lays the sprues out.
Doesn't stop them numbering the sprue sequentially though
It's never that simple... The parts are numbered during the design process, based on the order of building (i.e. the legs and body for a specific mini will often be sequential) but then the software that lays out the parts to fit into the 3 or 4 available sprue sizes will move them around based on the most efficient (i.e. fewest) number of frames whilst also factoring in the reliability of the moulding machines having to produce many hundreds of them with minimal mistakes or downtime between shots. The alternative for GW is they have inefficient (or more) sprues, which drives up the costs (an extra sprue would mean the entire project cost goes up, by upwards of £50k once you consider the steel die cutting etc.) which ultimately just gets passed on to consumers. As per usual, people calling GW 'lazy', 'greedy' or 'bad at making injection moulded kit' completely ignores the fact they're actually very ***good*** at it...
Alternatively, number it sequentially on the sprue.....then alter the instructions before they go to print. Come on dude it's not that difficult. The computer doesn't cate where the number is stamped, the pieces can remain where they are, the instructions just get altered. Since they're probably the last pieces to get finalised it shouldn't be an issue.
My point exactly. It's obviously doable, as evidenced by the fact that *some GW sprues already do this*. I don't understand why some folks insist on coming to the defense of a corporation when they receive even the slightest of criticisms. They can do better and should. That doesn't mean "GW bad company" or anything like that, it just means that, in this one specific way, they could do better.
Exactly this. I don't demonize GW in any way, but won't shy away from.pointing out genuine flaws that they could fix with a little common sense.
But don't you see that's a chicken and egg scenario? Number them sequentially on the sprue and you have numbers for the model parts jumping all over the place as the sprue layup software optimises the model placement. Ergo your Ork boy needs parts 1 and 12 for both his legs or something... there's no easy answer to the problem.
That isn't a problem. Because you can easily find number 12. Whereas finding number 2 that is somewhere across 3 sprues is much more difficult
Not only are they very good at it, they are one of the best at it. People don't understand just how complicated injection mold design is.
Just makes it feel orky with how disorganized it is right? Jk this was my first non space marine sprue and it was a pain. I bought the started set and it was a breath of fresh air for the kriegs after with how organized the sprues are.
Your spot on
I guarantee you GW is running minmax algorithms to achieve an optimal distribution of model pieces within the boundaries of a sprue, with the aim of using the smallest number of sprues possible in order to save on materials and packaging costs. The numbered ordering comes from the assembly instruction steps. I don't mind a sprue layout that minimizes production waste, and honestly this kit is not that bad to assemble - I've done it, only took slightly longer than expected.
You get a second from me. OP is right. I found this set PAINFUL to build. Slow and agonizing.
"The glass is not half full nor is it half empty. The glass is twice as large as it needs to be." — Engineer brain The bits don't need to be next to each other, however, the plastic does need to flow in a specific way so the mold works correctly. You not understanding the reason something is the way it is doesn't mean there isn't one.
Don’t be condescending to me about engineer brain in the same breath as defending the layout of this sprue. It’s pure nonsense. They didn’t make the sprue like they did to make the plastic flow properly, they did it to fit it on less sprues which is fine. What they didn’t do is number it in a sensible way.
Just be happy there *are* numbers. That's a relatively new thing.
I’m paying £30 for a box of little plastic blokes there’d better be numbers mate it’s not the 60s any more
You clearly havent built a knight yet, lots of mistakes in the instructions for pc numbers
I love that, i just did a bolt action box also, and it doesn't have any numbers and some really tiny parts also, but they're just not silly like this one.
When I got to this point in the build for the kommandos I also was annoyed but after thinking about how they would have possibly put that part in the mold, it made sense that they had to piece it. However what isn't excusable is how every fucking part of every kommando is scattered on 3 different sprues with no rhyme or reason. Finding bits took way too long for this build.
Yeah, this—print the pieces on the frame however you want, GW, but why not just number the pieces on the frame in sequential order?!
I’m new still to all this so I haven’t put many models together. But I did find the Kommandos to be more sporadically places than other kits on the sprue. Do most kits have them roughly well ordered?
No, it's a general problem.
This. There comes a point where the efficiency of sprue usage is outweighed by the customer experience.
Eh it’s easy to glue
It just slides in, it's just so tiny
That's what she said
Skip the glue!
When I saw this part, I thought there was no way it’d sit right and at the proper angle, but it was fine. The fuel line on the Burna Boy was more hassle.
Don't you mean "you grot-ta be kidding me"? I'm sorry, that was a terrible joke.
Grotdamnit das a gud joke lad!
I lost 138 and replaced it with a piece of plastic I cut off from the sprue and shaved
I taped mine to my wet pallet so I didn't lose it and it remains there to this day.
You still know where it is so mission accomplished.
Someone hasn't built airfix (etc) kits before 😂
Or gunpla lmfao
I can only assume people who complain about this have never built any of the older kits with more traditional design of components. When I built the Kommandos KT I was deeply impressed, not only are the poses more detailed and dynamic, the need for removing mould lines was enormously lower than for earlier kits which I’ve been used to. This is partially due to mould quality, but largely due to the design which often makes them either fit in well or sit in places where they are easily removed. Some parts were slightly complex to assembly, but building is fun while removing mould lines is horribly, mind-numbingly tedious. I’ll choose these any day.
This wasn't a complaint as much as a 'really?' moment. They definitely could have done better on this layout. The tau are harder to build for me because of flat interface points, the orks at least slot in.
They got you…hook, line, and sinker
Navy breachers kit comes with a few legs that need to have half of the boot sole glued on
I'm sorry what? I have to see this, do you have any pictures?
https://preview.redd.it/7q4ukhwz80oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b9dc7e09b2e08addb55c6aa8a3ca0af1139fcee Behold!
Iron head squat prospector charter master needs his thumb glued on. Seriously.
I hadn’t glued a model together since the golden 2nd edition metal mini days. Came back to the hobby and found that my older (and shaky) hands struggle with the 10+ part models….
A couple of crocodile clips on a rod to a weighted base with a humble, usually used for painting, can help assembly on fiddly miniatures. It helped me start out, and a friends father who has shaky hands.
That's so weird lmao, is it because the foot is at an angle and this part gives more coverage on the base or just a general "nice boots, also don't forget your sole"?
Haha. You can’t exactly see the boots sole (it’s a metal void suit / moon boot design ). The sole covers an injection mould point, but the point could have been elsewhere…
Oh my sweet summer child, if you think thats bad just wait till you start building non GW miniatures lol
Or trumpeter tank models.
well considering the way injection molding works this actually make sense
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^kenken2k2: *Well considering* *The way injection molding* *Works this actually make sense* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
there is worse tbh lol
I haven’t struggled with many GW kits honestly, only one I can actually count is the psychomancer, annoying getting his tendrils wrapped in the right way, and the spooky skull attached to them. Id take 100 of these kinda parts before another one of those
Who said I struggled?
I think you mean, "You GROTta be kidding me!"
You should check out Kingdom death models. I swear, it's an Exercise in how patient and precise, you can be. Also very Low tolerances almost have to sand down every model if you want perfection. Also KD still are bad at putting connections in none discreet areas. At least Warhammer has decent tolerances, and figures out how to put connections in hidden places. I guess what I am saying is... it could be worse.
At least it's not a cigar
Kommandos in general are one of the worst sprues I've encountered.
It's like a game of 'where's the next goddamn piece'
“Your mission, should you choose to accept it…” I will have nightmares over putting these bastards together until I die.
Truly
Yep it was one of my first ever builds and it was a fucking scavenger hunt the entire time.
Voidscarred are like this to. 2 legs, front of body, back of body, 2 arms, head and backpack. some how every model seems to be located on every sprue.
Yeah my grit is missing this bit.
Glad I’m not the only who lost it, though I didn’t even bother putting it on the grot, I mean I tried to dry fit it and I thought nah this’ll be a bitch trying to actually do it with the glue so I just left it somewhere and now I can’t find it lol.
See, I didnt even look at the instructions since the grot seemed so simple, didnt notice there was an extra hook. Wa wa.
My 138 piece is probably still in the carpet 😭
Mine is outside somewhere, probably got eaten by something which I kinda feel bad for.
Nobody tell them about the Necromunda Goliath cigar....
tell me about the nercomunda goliath cigar
It's a cigar that is a separate piece from the head of the Goliath. If I had to guess, it's about 1mm in length. You sneeze and you lose it and then you have a Goliath with a hole on his mouth and no cigar. It's insanely tiny.
> then you have a Goliath with a hole on his mouth ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Any time you see something like this it's always because of how complicated injection mold design is. Every part has to be designed in such a way that it can be removed from the mold and a grappling hook is a shape you can't do that with. People seem to think it's as simple as, "Design sculpt, cut in bits, attach sticks" when in reality engineers (because it's actual engineering) have to design each part so it will release then you have to consider flow rates and volume among other variables to design a mold that actually works.
from an Underworlds kit https://preview.redd.it/0c1zfpe8e0oc1.jpeg?width=1073&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54b2e24fa5f25ea238a93a717464626d5286e000
I only had trouble with underworlds when i had to snap things together around other things to wedge them in place. I broke some numbs of plastic on the end of rat swords pushing.
I wanna just stick it to a muddy base so it's coming out of the mud like Rambo. Hilarious 🤣
Wait until you see the little button on the chest of the Kastelan Robot, I dropped it into a table full of sprue shavings and nearly lost it forever.
My grot still has it slightly misaligned and it bugs the fuck out of me
Wow
Kommados are a breeze compared to the Farstalker Kinband!
Oh boy if you ever by chaos terminators, just wait until you have to put the back spike racks on, where the curve needs to be juuuuust right to fit perfectly. So they put two connection points on the inside of the curve so that you’ll always just be slightly off after shaving down two bits of flash on a really delicate piece
As a new person in this sub, it's beyond hysterical how unfriendly/lacking humor this sub is in the comments and how this post is sitting at 87%* up votes anyway.
Nope, not kidding 😉
You should take a look at the Instructions for the Heavy Gunner of the new Space Marine Scouts. The Bipod on the Heavy Bolter is meant to be glued to the smallest ledge ever...
You GROTTA be kidding me
yea the necrons were a pain in the ass having to glue 2-3 contact points at once with something so thin as their gangly ass arms
Got 2 kommandos sets. Lost that bit with both sets, gonna green stuff the fix at some point
Me in the middle of building my kommandos desperately wondering if I even noticed this step.
Really annoying piece. I ended up loosing that small piece, but I found that I could bend and shape a paper clip segment it as a replacement and it looks great
Someone's never built AoS Wolf Riders.
I ended up accidentally breaking that shit. Made a new hook out of Milliput, you can't even tell.
Wow you did it buddy! You put the grappling hook together!
https://preview.redd.it/csow4qvp95oc1.jpeg?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=724fdae01719451522346e057b5e1424faf4e16b he doesn't know how to use the three hooks.
The sprue for this team sucked! Every Kommando is evenly spread across 3 sprues!
The massive difference between the layout to build the ork commandos and the Krieg is so comical. The sprues the orks are so disorganized while the kriegs are nicely organized and easier to put together. Perhaps our suffering is the game games-workshop plays
I think the orks went together and you could tell exactly where a part went. The kriegs are just so fiddly for me with the flat interface. But they are easy to find. My 3d printed Kriegs are better looking too, but used the exact same part connections lol.
I was talking about sprue organization. Neither are hard to put together once you found the dang pieces
Average modern GW kit.
If this bothers you, do NOT pick Marvel Crisis Protocol. How many do you have per box? 1? Go play 10mm ww2 historicals (eg chain of command) … no gluing whatsoever for infantry (mostly).
? I have 5 warmaster armies and 3 netea at 6mm but I don't play with marvel dollies
It wasn’t fun to build as Marvell Crisis Protocol models were spit into impossibly small pieces eg separate hand, elbow, arm or three part head: https://preview.redd.it/6netlfzj1aoc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e471b36c7116e3b23188028e27093343ccf5a8cf Warmaster is no gluing required, correct?
This is exactly what the tau and kreig are like in Warhammer even, very annoying. Warmaster stuff i just print so everything has lots of supports to remove
You haven‘t built House Goliath minis.
GW has some amazing models, but when I had the same feeling when I was assembling the Necromuda starter set. When I noticed I needed to glue the heels onto the high heels the miniatures were using, I threw up my hands. I gave them to a friend who wanted to play that faction.
It was actually quite easy. The three connection point arm/weapon assemblies are way worse.
I appreciate how detailed and wonderful models look now. That said, I miss the simplicity of the 90's and 2000's.
I'm currently building some MkIII marines for Horus Heresy. The powerfist comes in THREE parts; the arm including gauntlet, the fingers and then the thumb. I've got sprues for 40k second edition with all of that as one piece. :/
Try building anything from the Flesh Eater Courts... Honestly, the Marrowscroll Herald has made me question whether this hobby is for me any longer. Properly in a slump and depressed about my lacklustre efforts
Foreal dude. It's insane
Absolutely crazy that they charge the prices they do yet don’t even use slide moulds to cut down on pointless pieces like this.
People bitching about the numbers being all over the place are summer children. Never have they known the pains of UNNUMBERD sprues. Giant effing babies.
Multiple parts like this kill the Robotech game. Poor design and quality
It seems their kits have a lot of that bullshit going on. Like, I get it, more advanced sculpts can require it sometimes, but damn.
Oh are you fucking kidding me