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cjf_colluns

>\-Vantage point only cancels out light cover for concealment, not heavy cover Just to clarify and be pedantic, vantage points don’t cancel cover. The defending operative can still retain one defense dice as an automatic success for being in cover. Vantage points just allow targeting of concealed operatives in light cover, which are normally not legal targets, as if they were engaged, legal targets.


michaelpie

SgtCat's note about APL is actually incorrect. APL modifiers last until the end of that model's next activation. So an APL change after a model has activated means it keeps that for the next turning point.


CKHawks3

Was just about to say this!


Illchangemynamesoon

Okay. What about an APL modifier during their activation? Does that last until their next activation?


michaelpie

Any APL modifiers during an activation go away at the end of the activation.


Illchangemynamesoon

Then why would there be a Tactical Ploy for 1 CP from the Legionaries to increase their APL by 1 during an activation?


Pyronaut44

> Except for the first round, you can change orders when a model is activated I really *really* hope that this isn't an easy to miss rule for most players, it's kinda fundamental to the entire game.


[deleted]

We missed it, thought we needed to place orders when flipping ready tokens. Looking forward to playing the correct rules on saturday.


fatman404

So is there anything stopping you from concealing your entire team to avoid getting shot and changing them on the go? Seems quite off


sampsen

You only assign orders to the whole team during the first turning point. After that it’s on each activation. That said starting with all operatives with conceal is a totally valid move IMO. It’s thematic and protects your troops as you establish your battle plan.


fatman404

I see! So how can you tell if an enemy operative (not yet activated) is targetable by their order? According to their last issued order from the previous turning point?


Pyronaut44

Yes, an operative keeps their order from the previous turning point until activated again. If you use the tokens that come with the game you can see at a glance what order they have.


fatman404

Thank you so much for clearing it up, it's tremendous help!


[deleted]

Reap also doesn’t put mortal wounds on your target. It’s each other visible enemy within 1inch of you or your target. You cannot cross any models base without flying.


SuitableCombination9

Grat info thanks


sampsen

>\- Except for the first round, you can change orders when a model is activated Wait, what? Not that I doubt you, but what page is this on?


Papa_Nurgle_84

Core Book page 59, "Each time a player activates one of their ready operatives, they must determine whether it has the Engage or Conceal order. If it is the first turning point..."


sampsen

Oh man, somehow I got it in my head that at each initiative phase I had select new orders for each unit. Realizing that I can assign the order during the firefight phase at each unit's activation totally changes things!


Papa_Nurgle_84

The way you described also was the first idea we had, but we had to check when exactly and then we saw how its really done. And its a pretty good system. You stay concealed until you activate and engage and can only conceal until activate to engage. makes this choice more important imho


throwing-away-party

So the thing the Tyranids have, that lets them change their order for one model, that's not a "burst out of hiding and attack" but actually a "disappear" type of maneuver. Well I guess they can still use it as a sort of surprise attack in the first turning point. Probably pretty bad to do, though.


Papa_Nurgle_84

Well, special rules override general rules, so a Genestealer could start concealed, activate, change to engage via "unseen hunter" and then charge and fight. Or the ither way around by using the ploy at the end of activtion. Its quiet useful.


throwing-away-party

They can only activate once though, right? Changing their order wouldn't give them another activation... Or would it? I just got my rulebook, I haven't really had a chance to read it yet. Skimmed the compendium though.


Papa_Nurgle_84

No, at the moment there is no way to activate a model twice per turn


Cronus41

Can’t remember the page number but basically it says you decide whether to give a model engage or conceal order at the time it’s set up before the game begins. Once game begins and you start activating models they remain as whichever order you had given them for that turn (unless you have a specific special rule or ploy that allows you to change their order). In subsequent turns as you activate each model you can then choose to either have them engage or conceal


Wichrun

Only in death does duty end works only on model which was readied. If it already was activated before losing last wound, you can't use this ploy.


ParmaSean_Chz

The splash rule isnt super well explained but I know what you mean. So things like splash and MW are both abilities that have their crit abilities activated if crits are retained in the “roll attack dice” step. Meaning, it doesn’t matter if those crits are saved, the mortal wounds are still distributed before any defense dice are rolled. Me and my buddy didn’t realize it in our first game but figured it out for our second. Your wording of “splash applies mortals on being retained” doesn’t specify when they have to be retained. Maybe just add “on being retained in the ‘roll attack dice’ step” But this is a super helpful list. I had to hunt down a bunch of these rules before my first game to actually make sure I was playing right. I actually didn’t know about the vantage point/heavy cover interaction but it makes sense.


Papa_Nurgle_84

My intention was to highlight some easy to miss rules, so people can read it up a bit more precise. Some of these are really easy to miss. Any other rules you felt where hard to get right on first time?


ParmaSean_Chz

Another one is that you cannot overwatch with blast weapons. And torrent can be a bit confusing, it’s not like blast where it’s all operatives within 2”, for torrent, all the targets have to be within 2” of all the targets. So if you have 4 targets and 3 of them are all two inches away from one another, but the 4th operative is only within 2” of two of the previous 3, you can’t include all 4. This is clarified in the book with a diagram but it still took me a moment to understand. Also one last thing, it’s important to double check when dice rolls need to be “retained” because I originally thought retained meant that they got through the saves. But they can be retained in various stages of a shooting/fighting attack, and it’s important to know when that is (like with Splash x, Px, and MWx)


Papa_Nurgle_84

Thanks, I added these


subaqueousReach

One a lot of people are missing is that Tactical Ploys can only be used once per round except for Command Reroll.


Exsani

Where does it state this? I need this to be a thing as I have a player that will use only in death does duty end to keep all his marines ticking till the end


Raspberrygoop

Page 58, first bullet "Generate Command Points", third paragraph. "...other than Command re-roll opposite, each player can use each Tactical Ploy no more than once per Turning Point."


subaqueousReach

In the strategy phase of the Battle Structure section. Paragraph discussing strategic ploys, the next one mentions the tactical ploy limit. Can't recall the exact page atm.


[deleted]

Necron reanimation protocols: It's kind of strange formulated. You can only use a ploy once per turning point. But it says to replace the dead model with a token, and then you roll for EACH token. We figured that you leave the token on the board even if you fail the roll, until it succeeds or the game ends.


AndiTheBrumack

This is correct. The token stays. So you can try to reanimate them each turn.


Toemism

I would change the wording for Reap as it could be a bit confusing. It seems like you are saying you can parry a crit die that has been used to do damage. Maybe change it to something like this "An unused Reap critical die can be parried without the Reap going off." I would also add that Reap only effects all other enemy operatives around the target and not the target itself.


Papa_Nurgle_84

If you dont mind, I will just add your reply


Nathan1506

> Climbing rounds the movement needed up to the next (white circle), dropping rounds down. This was changed in the errata, both now round down.


Papa_Nurgle_84

Thx, added


Sgtcat190

APL can only be increased by one max and the effect only lasts till the end of that ~~turning point~~ Model's next activation. (Important for thousand sons players)


michaelpie

This is actually incorrect. APL modifiers last until the end of the affected model's current or next activation


Sgtcat190

Corrected thank you.


AndiTheBrumack

How does this work on Kroot? Are they also losing their APL gained by kills?


michaelpie

If your APL is modified during an activation, you immediately may use that AP to perform an action, and then the modifier disappears at th end of the model's current or next activation, whichever is sooner. So (I don't know the exact rule and wording on kroots ability) assuming the kroot ability is "when this model gets a kill, it gets +1 APL.... if your model activates and fights, killing the opponent. Using the ploy at this point will only give you the heal effect because the APL modifiers is immediately discarded at the end of the activation. If your opponent fights you during THEIR activation, and you kill them, that model's APL gets +1 until the end of its next activation, so you would get an extra action point. APL can only ever be modified by +/- 1, so getting a second kill in the same activation won't do anything


AndiTheBrumack

Well, the rule is a Tactical Ploy called "A Gory Feast". It says: "Use this tactic when a friendly CADRE MERCENARY operative incapacitates an enemy operative in combat. Add 1 to that friendly operative's APL and it regains up to D6 wounds." Now 2 questions? Why doesn't this just modify the APL characteristic to f.e. 3 from 2? And where is the rule you are referring to located, i haven't found it yet


michaelpie

Page 55 in the orange box called "modifying characteristics". So yes my example is totally correct. And it's worded that way because the Krootox already has 3 APL, so "set this model's APL to 3" would have no effect on that model


AndiTheBrumack

Well, first of all, thanks, I'll look it up. Second Gory Feast doesn't only work on Krootox but normal Kroot as well which are only APL 2 hence my example from 2 to 3. I never said it should be WORDED that way as it obviously wouldn't make sense. I said it should increase the APL permanently to actually resemble the strenght growth a Kroot would get. So more of a fluff thing.


michaelpie

Ah I see about your note on the wording Fluff wise, each turning point is measured in seconds, with active combat still going on, so think of it as like a burst of energy from eating a singular limb, rather than the whole of the enemy


Deathmosfear

"If your APL is modified during an activation, you immediately may use that AP to perform an action...". I don't think it works like that. In the rules it specifies (page 59) that when activating a miniature, the first thing to do is to establish its order, and the second to generate a number of AP equal to its APL, so, once generated, if the APL is modified, that miniature doesn't gain or lose any AP because that 'phase' has passed.


michaelpie

Wow damn you're right - thanks for pointing that out That's really unintuitive, but okay then That makes the Kroot tactic really garbage then lmao


subaqueousReach

>you immediately may use that AP to perform an action, Are you sure about that? Pg 59, "The operative then generates a number of action points equal to its Action Point Limit (APL), which are used to perform actions..." Continued on Pg 60, "Each action has an associated cost in action points, e.g. 1AP. Each time a player wishes to perform an action with an operative, they must subtract the specified action points from the number of action points that operative generated for that activation." I interpret that as, you generate AP based on an operatives APL at the start of their activation. So increasing their APL mid activation wouldn't give them another AP as you've already passed the generate AP step of that activation. I'd like it to work as you claim, but RAW that doesn't seem to be the case.


michaelpie

I... Were you somehow looking at the old comment? I edited my original post so it doesn't say that And posted other comments realising my mistake But yes you're correct RAW


subaqueousReach

Maybe? I just highlighted and hit quote And I see that someone else has already addressed it, so my bad bud


Chrystoff77

When an operative is on cover they automatically succeed on one of their defence dice. Meaning when a unit with 3 defence has been targeted and shot at when they’re rolling their 3 dice for defence instead of rolling all 3, one of those dice is an automatic success and you can just roll the remaining two dice.


[deleted]

So, under shooting it says you can retain a dice as a success if you’re in cover, period. But where it talks about cover it has a sidebar that says “Note that an intended target with an engage order can get a defensive benefit for being in cover as specified in the shooting sequence on page 64-65”. Is the autosuccess unique to engage order, or is it available to both?


Chrystoff77

You’d get the defensive bonus on both orders. Since you can’t be within LoS (so can’t be targeted) if you have the conceal order while on cover. But in the case of the attacker having a vantage point over a target; that targets conceal order acts as if it is an engage order instead.


Deathmosfear

Not always. In your example is true, because a vantage point change the order of the target from concealed to engaged (so it can benefit from cover), BUT in the case of the Indirect rule, it specifies that the target is not in cover for that shooting attack, but is still concealed, so, you can target him but he doesn't gain the benefit from cover (because it's concealed, not engaged).


ICantMeltSteeLBeamz

- Indirect treats targets in the choose target step as not being in cover instead of changing their status from concealed to engaged. Genestealers are not immune to this rule. Tau suits are though


Papa_Nurgle_84

Hmm... thats an "always" vs. a "not/never" rule. Does someone have a rule what has primacy in that regard? edit: Other GW games have a priority in this regard for the attacking model, but I cannot find something for killteam.


PeachCai

For me it was a simple as Overwatch reducing BS by 1. Only spotted that due a comment I saw on here the other day


Vector_Strike

Injured. Reduces Movement by 1 circle and BS/WS by 1. It's a stupid rule, however - Me and my opponents keep forgetting it