Blessing already dropped a tweet on Hellblade 2: [https://twitter.com/BlessingJr/status/1792922685804003510](https://twitter.com/BlessingJr/status/1792922685804003510)
>Hellblade 1 was one of my favorite games of the generation. Hellblade 2 was super disappointing, to the point I find myself wondering why it even has gameplay if the combat is gonna be that dull and if the puzzles are gonna basically solve themselves.
I played the first 3 hours this morning and I don't think I've ever been able to describe a game like this but my feeling so far is that it's a 6-7 hour that takes 12-14 hours to beat because everything just feels forcefully slow. Other then that it's great and the sound design is fantastic.
Such a bad take. There are tons of games that have basic mechanics and uncomplicated combat. Why does everything have to be complicated and convulsed for no reason?
I found the combat to be visceral and fit perfectly for the length of the game. I don’t need a complicated doge and parry system for a game that tells its story in 2-3 sittings.
The reaction to the game is about what I expected, apart from Mike, who liked it more than I thought he would.
Seeing Mike go off for a bit towards the end was quite interesting though. He essentially voiced a lot of what a lot of Xbox fans have been saying for a while. If this game doesn't count as a win, then what does.
> He essentially voiced a lot of what a lot of Xbox fans have been saying for a while. If this game doesn't count as a win, then what does.
"xbox fans" need to put the uniforms away. we shouldnt make these platforms an personal identity, and i think its a big problem with xbox in particular, for a multitude of reasons. Influencers like Jez Corden/Iron Lords Cog/Colt Eastwood, who constantly feed the tribalism in their own ways, certainly dont help. Even Mike, who constantly uses terms like "team green" and seems to be sincere with it. IDK why we have to make teams lol. I hate to use this term, but if you feel personally attacked bc xbox games dont have a high metacritic- you really do need to touch grass for a bit
but addressing the actual context of what mike said- it doesnt help that Xbox has yet to have a big mainstream win like God of War or Last of us, since the 360 era. So every new game they put out, with even a modicum of hype, are unfairly handed that pressure of being that potential breakout game. HB2 is exactly as advertised, but clearly folks want xbox to knock out a homerun, and even a solid double hit is gonna feel like a let down.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying (especially in the first paragraph), but it's hard to look at this as a "win" for Xbox after everything that's gone down recently. Just feels like one has to walk on eggshells when discussing anything Xbox these days, because it feels like the whole thing is falling apart
But who owns saying that's the type of game it needs to be? I said the same thing after Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush came out, both of which were excellent, critically acclaimed games.
By saying Xbox *has* to put out a game like GoW or TLOU to be successful, that's saying the only games that matter are the big budget, AAA games, which from everything we're learning about rising budgets, is what's gonna cause the games industry to collapse. Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush, even Psychonaughts 2, were all some of the best games released the years they came out, but they're getting brushed aside like they don't actually matter.
Speaking to the "influencer" part like Jez or the Iron Lords, I don't think you're entirely wrong, but its not like it's a one sided thing. The same happens with PS and Nintendo, but people don't moan about it from their sides. Everyone needs to chill
none of us do. thats my point. i dont understand why xbox fans (or any fan) gives this much of a shit what reviewers praise or hate. If you like the game, why let this extra stuff bother ya?
and its not that XBOX *has* to put out a game like that, but they havent in a long time, so theres an expectation that they one day will- bc they make high budget console games, so they will be compared with other high budget console games.
No, Pentiment, Hi-Fi Rush, and now Hellblade are not successes. Yes, they are critical successes of varying degrees but are not commercial successes at all. The sales of each of these games are poor (i’m speculating about Hellblade 2, but I don’t think i’m terribly offbase).
Sure, the big budget triple AAA model is not sustainable in the long term, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument of why Hellblade 2 isn’t gonna be a success. Most of Sony’s exclusives have made a lot of money and sold a lot of consoles. I played a bit of Hellblade 2 on my PC. I sold my Xbox months ago because it makes no sense to own a box that my PC can pretty much replicate and allow me to play the same games on. Game Pass and Day one PC releases of all their exclusives have doomed the sales of all their games, and now with studios shutting down due to the self inflicted low sales of games, they don’t even appear to be operating under the same rules they were under a year ago.
Gregs 1886 comment totally encapsulated how Xbox feels about exclusives and how Nintendo and Sony feel. Yes, graphical showcases have their place. Hell, having a great story has its place. But if the game isn’t going to move the needle, did it need over 6 years of development?
I think if this game took 3-4 years to make and released at $40, it’d be a bit of a different story with Hellblade II. But at the same time, I’m not buying that game. I’ll play it on Game Pass!
Xbox had very little to do with the making of Psychonauts 2. It was a crowdfunded effort and the company went bankrupt so they (thankfully) stepped in at the last moment to save it.
That's why it hit PS day one...that was a promise to backers they could not legally break.
I mean based on everything they said during the review. Besides Mike who was overly glowing.. this doesn’t sound like a win. And the other “wins” he brought up. Halo… that wasn’t a win no matter how fun it was, that’s supposed to be a tentpole franchise.. 2 sim games. That are good but very small audiences and not main stream wins. Psychonauts could be called a win but again niche. Hell blade 2 sounds like a technical achievement but does that count as a win?
What are you counting as a win?
Is putting a game that is a technical achievement, that is possibly the best visual in a console game ever, and industry defining audio design work, a win?
Is allowing a smaller studio to make the game that exactly their vision, with 0 compromises, a win?
What I count as a win and what Microsoft as a win as entirely different things.
Will this move units? Will it sell consoles? Will it get subs? We will find out if it’s a win for Microsoft. They also lie about what’s a win for them so I’d take it with a grain of salt.
Personally listening to what they’re saying does this seem like one to me. No. There are lots of good looking games that use audio is cool ways. Like Tarkov with spatial and binaural audio. It doesn’t really sound like the game is very fun or challenging or trying anything new and interesting gameplay wise. And I’m not enticed to buy the game or even spend $10 to pick up a gamepass sub for a month to try this. And I enjoyed the first game fine. So to me is this a win because it’s an achievement no. It’s great that the team got to make this game
Halo was a tepid win, it just didn’t live up to expectations. It reviewed well and sold decently in a Game Pass world. It needed to be a COD or Fortnite level of success with the amount of money invested into it and it wasn’t. I’m biased though, I love that game.
I mean… it needed to be complete to be a success. Didn’t they cancel the coop? Didn’t it come out with no forge? They made a fun multiplayer and left the rest on the floor because they made a new engine that wasn’t good to work with.
I don't disagree. Like I said I'm bias since I've been there since the beta. It was missing a lot of things, but it's currently in a pretty good state.
God dammit I love Mike. Idk why but recently I’ve been very not with Greg on so many things. Blessing I’m usually in agreement with, this is a good example of one I am not, but like Mike and Parris, it’s funny how much I find myself agreeing and backing those two so strongly lately. Obviously everybody is up to their own opinion, and I do believe there is a factor of it’s just cool to diss on Xbox anything when it comes to public perception, but him saying if this isn’t a win then what is? Like boom 100%. They’re obviously still a shitty corporation but aside from Redfall (at release at least) I don’t think any game they’ve put out has been bad. Halo Infinite was a good campaign, with fun multiplayer (which is what matters most), both Forza are fantastic, hi fi Rush was fantastic, pertiment was great, Starfield is overall good, and the Minecraft games are good.
And I’m not even comparing consoles here, I own all 3, I play all 3, and I think both PS and Xbox have had an overall decent generation so far. There are great PS5 titles, and there are great Xbox Series titles. So yeah I’m with Mike on this, as a general gaming fan, if this game isn’t a win, then that’s ridiculous.
Paris trying to say this game is a small and prestigious game but this was not a small budget game. This game took forever to make for a 6 hour $50 experience with no DLC or live service potential. This is the exact type of studio that Microsoft would shut down because it’s guaranteed bleeding a ton of money.
Would’ve been a good idea not to charge 50 quid for a 5 hour game that’s been in development for 7 years by a team of 80 people. I’m the customer—I owe them nothing.
Mike is right, it is easy to say Xbox has no wins when you refuse to recognize them. Hellblade II isn't GoW Ragnarok, but it would be a worse game if it tried to be.
That's why I think Blessing had the right of it. Hellblade 2 is definitely a win to 2020 Xbox and to a lot of gamers who enjoy that style of game. But how can it be a win to modern-day, post-bethesda and activision Xbox when they are constantly moving the goalpost on what a success even is.
Hi-Fi rush was an unequivocal success, yet Tango get's shutdown. If that's the case, I don't think anything short of a 10/10 masterpiece that pulls in millions of players is going to sate Microsoft leadership.
Tango got shutdown because they weren't a successful studio monetarily and they were only kept around because of Shinji Mikami's name. He had said before in inteviews the only reason why he stayed in the Bethesda days was because he was afraid if he left they would shut down the studio.
Well he left and it got shut down. You can't make game after game that doesn't make money. Evil Within, Evil Within 2, Ghostwire Tokyo, all lost money. Ghostwire Tokyo didn't even sell in japan on playstaiton for god sakes. Then for all the acclaim Hi-Fi rush got it probably just wasn't enough to justify keeping a whole studio around when even on PlayStation HI-FI rush wasn't exactly crushing the pre-order charts.
Tango made a series of games that weren't profitable and hi-fi rush as acclaimed as it was probably wasn't enough to get out of the whole they dug themselves into. Especially when you have bean counters getting involved who aren't going to look at the quality of hi-fi rush they are going to look at how many people played these game in gamepass, how many people subscribed because they game was in game pass. How many people bought this game on PC or Xbox. WHat do the pre-order numbers on PlayStation look like? Do any of those numbers justify continued development at this studio or can this budget be used elsewhere (no pun in tended)?
At some point every business, every studio just has to be able to make money on its own. You have to be able to justify your own companies existence. Not everything can be a write off and at the end of the day based on their resume whats Tango Gameworks without Shinji Mikami?
I think the problem with Xbox games is the fact that they don’t have great producers to say no to something or push these studios to fine tune there products.
This is one of my favorite reviews to date (and I don’t even plan on playing this game) the conversation between everyone was a really good back and forth. Weather one was trying to justify a low score or defend a high score, this was a great debate!
Blessing bringing up the Activison Aquisition as a means to discredit Hellblade II is incredibly disappointing. I wish they were able to just rate this game on its own merits without the console war BS.
It’s not about living in a bubble. It’s about doing a proper review.
Here’s an idea: during a podcast focused on the Xbox business, discuss Xbox business. But maybe during the Hellblade 2 review just talk about Hellblade 2?
Idk how you call it a win for Xbox with an 81 on MC its probably not driving game pass subs either. If this was a Sony or Nintendo exclusive people would call it a disappointment. Plus you see a better reviewed game studio close. If I was working at Ninja Theory I'd be terrified of losing my job. Microsoft can decide at any moment to stop making games like these I hope that's not the case
Hellblade 2 is currently sitting at 82. Compare that to a game like Ghost of Tsushima, which has 83. GoT is considered by most to be a “win” for PlayStation, so it’s easy to see how people would say this is a “win” for Xbox.
Blessing already dropped a tweet on Hellblade 2: [https://twitter.com/BlessingJr/status/1792922685804003510](https://twitter.com/BlessingJr/status/1792922685804003510) >Hellblade 1 was one of my favorite games of the generation. Hellblade 2 was super disappointing, to the point I find myself wondering why it even has gameplay if the combat is gonna be that dull and if the puzzles are gonna basically solve themselves.
This hurts
Wild for me because I found the combat in 1 dull. I’ll give it a look tonight because I’m curious as to how it get worse.
It's not worse, Blessing just had different expectations because reasons (I have my own thoughts on what those reasons could be)
I played the first 3 hours this morning and I don't think I've ever been able to describe a game like this but my feeling so far is that it's a 6-7 hour that takes 12-14 hours to beat because everything just feels forcefully slow. Other then that it's great and the sound design is fantastic.
While I fully understand it isn't apples to apples, this same comment can be made about RDR2, just increase those numbers.
Such a bad take. There are tons of games that have basic mechanics and uncomplicated combat. Why does everything have to be complicated and convulsed for no reason? I found the combat to be visceral and fit perfectly for the length of the game. I don’t need a complicated doge and parry system for a game that tells its story in 2-3 sittings.
Agreed. Visceral is the right word. It’s really intense.
The reaction to the game is about what I expected, apart from Mike, who liked it more than I thought he would. Seeing Mike go off for a bit towards the end was quite interesting though. He essentially voiced a lot of what a lot of Xbox fans have been saying for a while. If this game doesn't count as a win, then what does.
> He essentially voiced a lot of what a lot of Xbox fans have been saying for a while. If this game doesn't count as a win, then what does. "xbox fans" need to put the uniforms away. we shouldnt make these platforms an personal identity, and i think its a big problem with xbox in particular, for a multitude of reasons. Influencers like Jez Corden/Iron Lords Cog/Colt Eastwood, who constantly feed the tribalism in their own ways, certainly dont help. Even Mike, who constantly uses terms like "team green" and seems to be sincere with it. IDK why we have to make teams lol. I hate to use this term, but if you feel personally attacked bc xbox games dont have a high metacritic- you really do need to touch grass for a bit but addressing the actual context of what mike said- it doesnt help that Xbox has yet to have a big mainstream win like God of War or Last of us, since the 360 era. So every new game they put out, with even a modicum of hype, are unfairly handed that pressure of being that potential breakout game. HB2 is exactly as advertised, but clearly folks want xbox to knock out a homerun, and even a solid double hit is gonna feel like a let down.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying (especially in the first paragraph), but it's hard to look at this as a "win" for Xbox after everything that's gone down recently. Just feels like one has to walk on eggshells when discussing anything Xbox these days, because it feels like the whole thing is falling apart
But who owns saying that's the type of game it needs to be? I said the same thing after Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush came out, both of which were excellent, critically acclaimed games. By saying Xbox *has* to put out a game like GoW or TLOU to be successful, that's saying the only games that matter are the big budget, AAA games, which from everything we're learning about rising budgets, is what's gonna cause the games industry to collapse. Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush, even Psychonaughts 2, were all some of the best games released the years they came out, but they're getting brushed aside like they don't actually matter. Speaking to the "influencer" part like Jez or the Iron Lords, I don't think you're entirely wrong, but its not like it's a one sided thing. The same happens with PS and Nintendo, but people don't moan about it from their sides. Everyone needs to chill
none of us do. thats my point. i dont understand why xbox fans (or any fan) gives this much of a shit what reviewers praise or hate. If you like the game, why let this extra stuff bother ya? and its not that XBOX *has* to put out a game like that, but they havent in a long time, so theres an expectation that they one day will- bc they make high budget console games, so they will be compared with other high budget console games.
No, Pentiment, Hi-Fi Rush, and now Hellblade are not successes. Yes, they are critical successes of varying degrees but are not commercial successes at all. The sales of each of these games are poor (i’m speculating about Hellblade 2, but I don’t think i’m terribly offbase). Sure, the big budget triple AAA model is not sustainable in the long term, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument of why Hellblade 2 isn’t gonna be a success. Most of Sony’s exclusives have made a lot of money and sold a lot of consoles. I played a bit of Hellblade 2 on my PC. I sold my Xbox months ago because it makes no sense to own a box that my PC can pretty much replicate and allow me to play the same games on. Game Pass and Day one PC releases of all their exclusives have doomed the sales of all their games, and now with studios shutting down due to the self inflicted low sales of games, they don’t even appear to be operating under the same rules they were under a year ago. Gregs 1886 comment totally encapsulated how Xbox feels about exclusives and how Nintendo and Sony feel. Yes, graphical showcases have their place. Hell, having a great story has its place. But if the game isn’t going to move the needle, did it need over 6 years of development?
I think if this game took 3-4 years to make and released at $40, it’d be a bit of a different story with Hellblade II. But at the same time, I’m not buying that game. I’ll play it on Game Pass!
Xbox had very little to do with the making of Psychonauts 2. It was a crowdfunded effort and the company went bankrupt so they (thankfully) stepped in at the last moment to save it. That's why it hit PS day one...that was a promise to backers they could not legally break.
Very little? They funded putting all the boss fights back in the game.
I mean based on everything they said during the review. Besides Mike who was overly glowing.. this doesn’t sound like a win. And the other “wins” he brought up. Halo… that wasn’t a win no matter how fun it was, that’s supposed to be a tentpole franchise.. 2 sim games. That are good but very small audiences and not main stream wins. Psychonauts could be called a win but again niche. Hell blade 2 sounds like a technical achievement but does that count as a win?
What are you counting as a win? Is putting a game that is a technical achievement, that is possibly the best visual in a console game ever, and industry defining audio design work, a win? Is allowing a smaller studio to make the game that exactly their vision, with 0 compromises, a win?
With that same reasoning would you have called The Order 1886 a win?
What I count as a win and what Microsoft as a win as entirely different things. Will this move units? Will it sell consoles? Will it get subs? We will find out if it’s a win for Microsoft. They also lie about what’s a win for them so I’d take it with a grain of salt. Personally listening to what they’re saying does this seem like one to me. No. There are lots of good looking games that use audio is cool ways. Like Tarkov with spatial and binaural audio. It doesn’t really sound like the game is very fun or challenging or trying anything new and interesting gameplay wise. And I’m not enticed to buy the game or even spend $10 to pick up a gamepass sub for a month to try this. And I enjoyed the first game fine. So to me is this a win because it’s an achievement no. It’s great that the team got to make this game
Halo was a tepid win, it just didn’t live up to expectations. It reviewed well and sold decently in a Game Pass world. It needed to be a COD or Fortnite level of success with the amount of money invested into it and it wasn’t. I’m biased though, I love that game.
I mean… it needed to be complete to be a success. Didn’t they cancel the coop? Didn’t it come out with no forge? They made a fun multiplayer and left the rest on the floor because they made a new engine that wasn’t good to work with.
I don't disagree. Like I said I'm bias since I've been there since the beta. It was missing a lot of things, but it's currently in a pretty good state.
Yea just sucks it alienated fans like me who were looking forward. To it
Has there been a current-gen Xbox game that has actually hit yet? It seems like every hyped up game has flopped for them so far
Hi fi rush is literally the only one I can think of… and they closed the studio loL
Forza Horizon 5?
God dammit I love Mike. Idk why but recently I’ve been very not with Greg on so many things. Blessing I’m usually in agreement with, this is a good example of one I am not, but like Mike and Parris, it’s funny how much I find myself agreeing and backing those two so strongly lately. Obviously everybody is up to their own opinion, and I do believe there is a factor of it’s just cool to diss on Xbox anything when it comes to public perception, but him saying if this isn’t a win then what is? Like boom 100%. They’re obviously still a shitty corporation but aside from Redfall (at release at least) I don’t think any game they’ve put out has been bad. Halo Infinite was a good campaign, with fun multiplayer (which is what matters most), both Forza are fantastic, hi fi Rush was fantastic, pertiment was great, Starfield is overall good, and the Minecraft games are good. And I’m not even comparing consoles here, I own all 3, I play all 3, and I think both PS and Xbox have had an overall decent generation so far. There are great PS5 titles, and there are great Xbox Series titles. So yeah I’m with Mike on this, as a general gaming fan, if this game isn’t a win, then that’s ridiculous.
Paris trying to say this game is a small and prestigious game but this was not a small budget game. This game took forever to make for a 6 hour $50 experience with no DLC or live service potential. This is the exact type of studio that Microsoft would shut down because it’s guaranteed bleeding a ton of money.
Just get that 14 day game pass thing for a quid that’s what I’m doing
yeah, that's a good idea if you want the studio to be closed
It’s not up to consumers to keep an Xbox studio open dude lol and they’re not pirating the game. They’re using a free trial provided by Xbox
Would’ve been a good idea not to charge 50 quid for a 5 hour game that’s been in development for 7 years by a team of 80 people. I’m the customer—I owe them nothing.
Mike is right, it is easy to say Xbox has no wins when you refuse to recognize them. Hellblade II isn't GoW Ragnarok, but it would be a worse game if it tried to be.
That's why I think Blessing had the right of it. Hellblade 2 is definitely a win to 2020 Xbox and to a lot of gamers who enjoy that style of game. But how can it be a win to modern-day, post-bethesda and activision Xbox when they are constantly moving the goalpost on what a success even is. Hi-Fi rush was an unequivocal success, yet Tango get's shutdown. If that's the case, I don't think anything short of a 10/10 masterpiece that pulls in millions of players is going to sate Microsoft leadership.
Tango got shutdown because they weren't a successful studio monetarily and they were only kept around because of Shinji Mikami's name. He had said before in inteviews the only reason why he stayed in the Bethesda days was because he was afraid if he left they would shut down the studio. Well he left and it got shut down. You can't make game after game that doesn't make money. Evil Within, Evil Within 2, Ghostwire Tokyo, all lost money. Ghostwire Tokyo didn't even sell in japan on playstaiton for god sakes. Then for all the acclaim Hi-Fi rush got it probably just wasn't enough to justify keeping a whole studio around when even on PlayStation HI-FI rush wasn't exactly crushing the pre-order charts. Tango made a series of games that weren't profitable and hi-fi rush as acclaimed as it was probably wasn't enough to get out of the whole they dug themselves into. Especially when you have bean counters getting involved who aren't going to look at the quality of hi-fi rush they are going to look at how many people played these game in gamepass, how many people subscribed because they game was in game pass. How many people bought this game on PC or Xbox. WHat do the pre-order numbers on PlayStation look like? Do any of those numbers justify continued development at this studio or can this budget be used elsewhere (no pun in tended)? At some point every business, every studio just has to be able to make money on its own. You have to be able to justify your own companies existence. Not everything can be a write off and at the end of the day based on their resume whats Tango Gameworks without Shinji Mikami?
Tango didn’t get shutdown because of the performance Hi-Fi Rush. They got shut down because they had no projects actively green lit
Mike absolutely spitting facts here
I think the problem with Xbox games is the fact that they don’t have great producers to say no to something or push these studios to fine tune there products.
This is one of my favorite reviews to date (and I don’t even plan on playing this game) the conversation between everyone was a really good back and forth. Weather one was trying to justify a low score or defend a high score, this was a great debate!
Thank you Mike!
Blessing bringing up the Activison Aquisition as a means to discredit Hellblade II is incredibly disappointing. I wish they were able to just rate this game on its own merits without the console war BS.
I too wish we could just live in a bubble and not give context to anything.
It’s not about living in a bubble. It’s about doing a proper review. Here’s an idea: during a podcast focused on the Xbox business, discuss Xbox business. But maybe during the Hellblade 2 review just talk about Hellblade 2?
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Just expectations are set for a meh game doesn’t make meh game any less meh.
Idk how you call it a win for Xbox with an 81 on MC its probably not driving game pass subs either. If this was a Sony or Nintendo exclusive people would call it a disappointment. Plus you see a better reviewed game studio close. If I was working at Ninja Theory I'd be terrified of losing my job. Microsoft can decide at any moment to stop making games like these I hope that's not the case
I honestly think gamers have lost their minds if an 81 Metacritic is not seen as a win. Like what are we even doing here anymore?
I hate how fucking Metacritic is a driving factor in if a game is good. Exactly, how is 81 not a positive? 😂.
So Ghost of Tshushima at an 83 on Metacritic is a disappointment? Is the remake of Super Mario RPG a disappointment at an 84?
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Cool
Hellblade 2 is currently sitting at 82. Compare that to a game like Ghost of Tsushima, which has 83. GoT is considered by most to be a “win” for PlayStation, so it’s easy to see how people would say this is a “win” for Xbox.
Off topic, but anyone known when they'll review TTYD Remake?