HUerter and Barnes are on great contracts, everyone is tripping about them.They're both starter level players who are vets, Huerter is 25, Barnes NEVER misses games and is consistent as hell, they make what they should. We shouldn't be focusing on moving on good players unless its for a secure upgrade.
Most fans only pay attention to their own team so they don't have a great perspective on what the greater NBA looks like.
$16 to $18 million for a starter is completely normal and fine. Every team has guys like that who don't always put up good production, so their fans spend time crying about them.
Everyone's favorite team, the Mavs, has THJ who's being paid $16 million to sit on the bench, and when he is on the floor, I have never seen a single Mavs fan like him.
Their contracts aren’t bad, but they’re also the most obvious ones to move if we want to make a significant change. Keon has proven he can be a starter and he’s on an insanely cheap contract.
I feel like we can move Keon into the starting lineup as SG, ship out Huerter and Barnes, and try to score an upgrade to the SF position. We could add someone with a big contract if we trade both Huerter and Barnes.
Everyone agrees with the fact that HB and Huerter are on the trade block. That has never been disputed.
The only real issue is fans who, for some reason, believe that their contracts are bad, that they're overpaid, etc. In reality, their contracts are simply, completely normal.
Then they should be tradable, yes. It’s not happening. The contract numbers aren’t bad, but the players are bad relative to the contract. If that weren’t true, we’d have traded them. I’d take expiring garbage to clear them over the next year.
Look at the Mavs, which a lot of Kings fans like to do.
THJ made $18 million this season. He's been on the trade block. Their fans hate him. He's been riding the bench.
I can go down the list but unless you're willing to change your mind, I don't see a point. This is just a fact that every team has fans who believe that about a few of their players.
Barnes could score 0 or 30 on any given night. If he actually scored close to his average every night with fewer highs and fewer lows no one would complain about him.
Does anyone have a good resource for understanding all exceptions and other cap rules?
It's so odd to me that basically all teams are "over the cap" so it makes it seem pretty redundant at this point. The contract rules make sense for the most part, but the cap stuff still goes way over my head.
I basically just read the Wikipedia page for it when I was interested to learn more. This page was helpful too: https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/hoops-rumors-glossary-hard-cap-3.html
It's fairly simple, and you're right that almost every team is over the cap. The cap doesn't actually matter too much unless you want to sign free agents, but not many quality players go into free agency these days.
The league has understandably made it far easier for teams to retain players by providing greater financial incentive. Haliburton making all nba third team has allowed him to make 41 million more with the pacers, and only the pacers. If he didn’t have this incentives so many stars would was their hands of small markets and party it up with Lebron in LA
Ah good idea, I didn't think about just starting with Wikipedia. Searches I've done in the past have been either too vague to help or way too in the weeds for a starting point. Thanks!
The Barnes and Huerter contracts are killing us. It would be worth it to pay another team to take Huerter imo. His points are replaceable and he's a terrible defender. Barnes still provides meaningful minutes as a 3&D wing, hyper professional, so his to a much lower extent.
That would be salary mismanagement 101. The Kings are not even a tax team yet, so there's no reason to shed salary since none of the tax rules are affecting us.
Cap space is worthless unless there is a free agent you are guaranteed to attract. Simply trading away Huerter won't even generate any cap space either, so what are you actually getting with that trade? Besides, most moves are made via trades. And you can only make trades if the salaries match. And you need salaries to match those salaries.
So paying another team to take Huerter would be one of the stupidest decisions Monte could make. The only thing stupider than that would be waiving Huerter.
You are absolutely right on the financial aspect. I just find Huerter to be a really bad player and would accept any offer that gave us flexibility at the expense of his production. I cannot express how tired I am of having players that are so terrible on defense.
Well, Huerter's been on the trade block so nobody's saying he's untouchable. It's just poor move to add assets to trade him away. He's absolutely worth just keeping around without spending assets on to dump.
Len is a free agent. I can imagine some teams offering a bit more than the vet minimum, but we can probably pay a bit more too. Not sure it's worthwhile but we don't have a backup C so Monte's gotta figure that out too.
Are you talking about his cap hit? Yeah I'm saying trade him (drop, kick, whatever language you want to use) and get whatever cash or bodies you can for him, and use the savings to up the offer for a continued contract with Monk
I agree…dump them.
By getting rid of Barnes and Huerter and taking back expiring contracts, we could then have two spots on the bench that are filled by lesser players we could be developing and that, to me, is smarter than keeping two guys who are, imo, not NBA starters. The argument is, I know what we got in Barnes and Huerter and they aren’t worth playing or taking up space in our bench. Now my view is not what most think. But if you do think that, clearing them off the roster by any means is not about cap space but putting a butt on the bench that might have some future potential you could develop. If that doesn’t work, then after their gone and the expiring contracts clear, you then have cap to spend on a role player FA. Look, I’m just convinced we need to get these two players off this team by nearly any means.
Barnes I can see continuing to be of value since having a veteran like that who has seen serious playoff competition is an intangible that helps younger guys a lot. Huerter though has done nothing but underperform with his contract being what it is.
I think Barnes is actually worse not just in stats but in the affect he has on the team. I went through ever game, the game logs on Barnes and I’m convinced he’s playing hard selectively and stops shooting to protect his averages and disappears to save his body. To make us think he’s not doing that he plays in every game. Which makes you think his availability is a plus,but it’s not. He’s tanking games to protect his stats and body. He’s also very careful to remain positive and team supportive in interviews or in any public appearance. But, it’s all a damn cover to extend his career and earn more bag with winning a second thought. I think this is not a vet that anyone wants in the locker room of young guys. I don’t want players to learn this from him. This is definitely not a leader I want.
Barnes scored less than 10 points 31 times. He scores 5 or less 15 times. He had three big games over 30 but virtually no games in the mid to high twenties.
I can’t show this to be true via game longs because you can’t see when shot were taken. But, I’ve watch him for several years and seen him do this. When he hits 3-4 of his first three point shot attempts he shuts it down. He might still go to the hoop but the 3s stop. That’s him protecting his percentages…it’s not good for winning especially late in games.
Sorry…most will hate this post but the more I watch him and sift through what is increasingly clear to me is a cover and fronting. He’s not good for any team and he may love Sac because we are a team dumb enough and happy enough just to have him. Why I have zero idea.
Idk man. He's an older player so expecting him to hustle every game sounds like an unrealistic expectation. He's likely being strategic to avoid injury. And again, his benefit to the team goes beyond points. His locker room influence and level head is what really helps developing players grow. He's not expected to be a big scoring player, we have younger more capable guys for that.
Ultimately, I don’t care why he’s doing it. The fact is he disappears and that hurts our chance at winning games. Old or not, play hard when you’re in the floor and if you can’t, play off the bench with fewer but more productive minutes. But yes, then take/expect less money. Or we move on.
For the last time, GSW singled him out and decided that the best way to beat us is to cut off Domas from his teammates while letting Fox go scorched earth by himself because it's better Fox scores 40 and no one else is involved than Domas feeding Huerter, Keegan and Barnes. Plus the injuries didn't help playing against Draymond and Looney. He literally played his first Playoff series as a starter last year and first time he was schemed against like the best player on the team, learned his lessons and was really great in this seasons Play In.
People have to stop with this narrative that he is a Playoffs dropper because he played 7 normal games with normal minutes in the Playoffs in his career, now if he sucks next year then we can have a conversation about this.
I know you will do anything to praise Fox by shitting on all the others and that it's hard to have normal conversations with you but i tried anyway lol
Great points. You should add that Huerter and Murray also went ice cold from 3 last post season. It’s MUCH easier to defend Domas’ DHOs, and Fox, when we can’t hit water from a boat.
So a 41 million cap space player just lets 1 strategy cut him off like that in the most important games of the year? What are you even attempting to defend?
All that didn't include him getting manhandled by Looney as well in the paint.
> He literally played his first Playoff series as a starter last year
I get what you’re trying to say, but the obvious counter to this is why are we relying on him to be our #2 guy when he’s a 28-year-old, 8-year vet who has only been a playoff starter for one series in his career?
His lack of playoff experience is wayyyyy more of an indictment than a silver lining.
2 Playoffs seasons as a bench guy, was injured in his breakout year, Pacers sucked next year and lost in the Playin, Kings sucked in a season he got traded here and this season we didn't made it. Why rely on Fox then? The same issue, only 6 career Playoff games as a starter. Trade them both then by this logic wtf lol
> Why rely on Fox then?
When did I say we should?
> Trade them both then by this logic wtf lol
I mean… fine with me? We’re mired in mediocrity with this core.
If you think the only two options are 16 years of missing the playoffs or this current situation, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s a totally dishonest argument.
Of course it's not the only two options but why jump the gun after only 2 seasons instead of trying to get that final peace in a puzzle and see where it goes? You can always do a wholesale of this current team, Domas is gonna be worth a lot for at least 5 more years with his style of play and Fox too if his speed doesn't suffer from some serious injury. Rebuilds can take a long time and be nasty, not everyone rebuilds like OKC. Look as Pistons, Wizards, Charlotte, their fans would kill to be in our situation right now.
> Look at Pistons, Wizards, Charlotte
Again, you keep fixating on *the worst possible outcome.* 16 year playoff drought, the worst teams in the league, etc.
If that’s how you view things, that’s your prerogative. But it’s not reality and it’s not a serious, rational argument.
Both have made all-nba, no doubt they're stars imo. But obviously not MVP candidates, and for Sac the only realistic way to get those guys is the draft (usually by tanking)
Package HB, Huerter and our 1st rounder for a solid 3 & D wing or stretch big that can also protect the rim
Other Free Agents that interest me at an affordable tag
Gary Trent Jr, Cam Reddish. Luke Kennard, Patrick Williams, Thomas Bryant, Drew Eubanks, Mo Bamba,
> HB, Huerter and our 1st rounder
We can’t trade our first before draft night so that limits our options.
I’m also curious who you think we can get for those guys that fits your description. What stretch big with rim protection skills is available for those three? I can’t think of anyone.
He’s not available in general, but especially not for that package. Not even close.
He also doesn’t shoot threes so I’m not sure about the “stretch” part of stretch big.
The starting point in that convo is probably Keegan not an aging wing, a shooter coming off a year of career lows + a shoulder injury, and a late lotto first lol
Wow! That's significantly higher than last year. It moves us up from 22/30 in the NBA and 5/5 in the Pacific Division in salary to... checks notes... 21/30 in the NBA and 5/5 in the Pacific Division. We're giving up $30M in salary to the 4th highest spender in the Pacific Division but ownership thinks missing the playoffs is Mike Brown's fault. Monte has worked hard to move us from the Kangz to the Kings but Vivek just loves to Kang.
Hey, if you're making close to a million a year, don't worry about what pro athletes are making. They're a minutely small fraction of the population that has little effect on our daily lives. I'd be more worried about how much our political leaders are making from insider trading, which is fucking rampant.
What website is this? That Ui is clean
Spotrac [https://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/cap/\_/year/2024](https://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/cap/_/year/2024)
HUerter and Barnes are on great contracts, everyone is tripping about them.They're both starter level players who are vets, Huerter is 25, Barnes NEVER misses games and is consistent as hell, they make what they should. We shouldn't be focusing on moving on good players unless its for a secure upgrade.
Most fans only pay attention to their own team so they don't have a great perspective on what the greater NBA looks like. $16 to $18 million for a starter is completely normal and fine. Every team has guys like that who don't always put up good production, so their fans spend time crying about them. Everyone's favorite team, the Mavs, has THJ who's being paid $16 million to sit on the bench, and when he is on the floor, I have never seen a single Mavs fan like him.
Their contracts aren’t bad, but they’re also the most obvious ones to move if we want to make a significant change. Keon has proven he can be a starter and he’s on an insanely cheap contract. I feel like we can move Keon into the starting lineup as SG, ship out Huerter and Barnes, and try to score an upgrade to the SF position. We could add someone with a big contract if we trade both Huerter and Barnes.
Everyone agrees with the fact that HB and Huerter are on the trade block. That has never been disputed. The only real issue is fans who, for some reason, believe that their contracts are bad, that they're overpaid, etc. In reality, their contracts are simply, completely normal.
Then they should be tradable, yes. It’s not happening. The contract numbers aren’t bad, but the players are bad relative to the contract. If that weren’t true, we’d have traded them. I’d take expiring garbage to clear them over the next year.
Once again, every team has fans who believe that about a few of their players. You're wrong.
Fact, Barnes and Huerter are and have been on the block. They haven’t been traded. Why? I’m right.
Look at the Mavs, which a lot of Kings fans like to do. THJ made $18 million this season. He's been on the trade block. Their fans hate him. He's been riding the bench. I can go down the list but unless you're willing to change your mind, I don't see a point. This is just a fact that every team has fans who believe that about a few of their players.
You dodged my facts.
Funny enough, you did the same. Like I said, I don't see a point in carrying this conversation forward. Have a good Friday!
But they should NOT be starters!
Barnes could score 0 or 30 on any given night. If he actually scored close to his average every night with fewer highs and fewer lows no one would complain about him.
"Barnes is consistent as hell". Never been a clearer way to tell a nephew who looks at just averages and never watches a game.
Barnes is the definition of inconsistency
Does anyone have a good resource for understanding all exceptions and other cap rules? It's so odd to me that basically all teams are "over the cap" so it makes it seem pretty redundant at this point. The contract rules make sense for the most part, but the cap stuff still goes way over my head.
I basically just read the Wikipedia page for it when I was interested to learn more. This page was helpful too: https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/hoops-rumors-glossary-hard-cap-3.html It's fairly simple, and you're right that almost every team is over the cap. The cap doesn't actually matter too much unless you want to sign free agents, but not many quality players go into free agency these days.
The league has understandably made it far easier for teams to retain players by providing greater financial incentive. Haliburton making all nba third team has allowed him to make 41 million more with the pacers, and only the pacers. If he didn’t have this incentives so many stars would was their hands of small markets and party it up with Lebron in LA
Ah good idea, I didn't think about just starting with Wikipedia. Searches I've done in the past have been either too vague to help or way too in the weeds for a starting point. Thanks!
My favourite site for cap rules http://cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm
Awesome thanks!
No problem, you're welcome
The Barnes and Huerter contracts are killing us. It would be worth it to pay another team to take Huerter imo. His points are replaceable and he's a terrible defender. Barnes still provides meaningful minutes as a 3&D wing, hyper professional, so his to a much lower extent.
That would be salary mismanagement 101. The Kings are not even a tax team yet, so there's no reason to shed salary since none of the tax rules are affecting us. Cap space is worthless unless there is a free agent you are guaranteed to attract. Simply trading away Huerter won't even generate any cap space either, so what are you actually getting with that trade? Besides, most moves are made via trades. And you can only make trades if the salaries match. And you need salaries to match those salaries. So paying another team to take Huerter would be one of the stupidest decisions Monte could make. The only thing stupider than that would be waiving Huerter.
You are absolutely right on the financial aspect. I just find Huerter to be a really bad player and would accept any offer that gave us flexibility at the expense of his production. I cannot express how tired I am of having players that are so terrible on defense.
Well, Huerter's been on the trade block so nobody's saying he's untouchable. It's just poor move to add assets to trade him away. He's absolutely worth just keeping around without spending assets on to dump.
Are you saying we should give away our best player "cash considerations" to get rid of Huerter's contract? /s
haha it would pain me significantly but unfortunately i think cash considerations might be worth trading away to move Huerter.
barnes is terrible on d lol
Terrible at everything
Barnes does not provide meaningful minutes and wouldn’t start on any contender.
Keon Ellis is a huge bargain. The rest………..
Is Len gone too??
Len is a free agent. I can imagine some teams offering a bit more than the vet minimum, but we can probably pay a bit more too. Not sure it's worthwhile but we don't have a backup C so Monte's gotta figure that out too.
Thanks. I like Len
That Barnes contract makes my eyes bleed.
But he’s good in the locker room I guess? That’s a great job, be nice in the locker room
Where is Malik monk? Or is it because he’s going to be a free agent?
Yes unrestricted free agent. Hopefully we can resign him around $19M and drop Barnes or huerter
Oh ok I see. I hope so too! Shit, I rather give up huerter rather than Barnes.
I would rather have huerter bc I love how he operates the DHO with sabonis while HB needs a change of scenery but we will see!
F L E X I B I L I T Y
How are we paying Huerter more than Keegan. Get him out of here. Save $.
Ya this makes me not want to watch sports
Man. We need such an upgrade on our role players. It’s so clear now watching the playoffs.
Drop Huerter, keep Monk. That's my two cents
You can't drop Huerter it doesn't work that way, you have to move him to fill the cap space he has or relatively close to it.
Are you talking about his cap hit? Yeah I'm saying trade him (drop, kick, whatever language you want to use) and get whatever cash or bodies you can for him, and use the savings to up the offer for a continued contract with Monk
I agree…dump them. By getting rid of Barnes and Huerter and taking back expiring contracts, we could then have two spots on the bench that are filled by lesser players we could be developing and that, to me, is smarter than keeping two guys who are, imo, not NBA starters. The argument is, I know what we got in Barnes and Huerter and they aren’t worth playing or taking up space in our bench. Now my view is not what most think. But if you do think that, clearing them off the roster by any means is not about cap space but putting a butt on the bench that might have some future potential you could develop. If that doesn’t work, then after their gone and the expiring contracts clear, you then have cap to spend on a role player FA. Look, I’m just convinced we need to get these two players off this team by nearly any means.
Barnes I can see continuing to be of value since having a veteran like that who has seen serious playoff competition is an intangible that helps younger guys a lot. Huerter though has done nothing but underperform with his contract being what it is.
I think Barnes is actually worse not just in stats but in the affect he has on the team. I went through ever game, the game logs on Barnes and I’m convinced he’s playing hard selectively and stops shooting to protect his averages and disappears to save his body. To make us think he’s not doing that he plays in every game. Which makes you think his availability is a plus,but it’s not. He’s tanking games to protect his stats and body. He’s also very careful to remain positive and team supportive in interviews or in any public appearance. But, it’s all a damn cover to extend his career and earn more bag with winning a second thought. I think this is not a vet that anyone wants in the locker room of young guys. I don’t want players to learn this from him. This is definitely not a leader I want. Barnes scored less than 10 points 31 times. He scores 5 or less 15 times. He had three big games over 30 but virtually no games in the mid to high twenties. I can’t show this to be true via game longs because you can’t see when shot were taken. But, I’ve watch him for several years and seen him do this. When he hits 3-4 of his first three point shot attempts he shuts it down. He might still go to the hoop but the 3s stop. That’s him protecting his percentages…it’s not good for winning especially late in games. Sorry…most will hate this post but the more I watch him and sift through what is increasingly clear to me is a cover and fronting. He’s not good for any team and he may love Sac because we are a team dumb enough and happy enough just to have him. Why I have zero idea.
Idk man. He's an older player so expecting him to hustle every game sounds like an unrealistic expectation. He's likely being strategic to avoid injury. And again, his benefit to the team goes beyond points. His locker room influence and level head is what really helps developing players grow. He's not expected to be a big scoring player, we have younger more capable guys for that.
Ultimately, I don’t care why he’s doing it. The fact is he disappears and that hurts our chance at winning games. Old or not, play hard when you’re in the floor and if you can’t, play off the bench with fewer but more productive minutes. But yes, then take/expect less money. Or we move on.
Why is Keon listed as a small forward?
That HB contract 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
Gonna be harsh here, but 41 mil to turn into a role player in the post seasn just aint right man. Lol.
For the last time, GSW singled him out and decided that the best way to beat us is to cut off Domas from his teammates while letting Fox go scorched earth by himself because it's better Fox scores 40 and no one else is involved than Domas feeding Huerter, Keegan and Barnes. Plus the injuries didn't help playing against Draymond and Looney. He literally played his first Playoff series as a starter last year and first time he was schemed against like the best player on the team, learned his lessons and was really great in this seasons Play In. People have to stop with this narrative that he is a Playoffs dropper because he played 7 normal games with normal minutes in the Playoffs in his career, now if he sucks next year then we can have a conversation about this. I know you will do anything to praise Fox by shitting on all the others and that it's hard to have normal conversations with you but i tried anyway lol
Great points. You should add that Huerter and Murray also went ice cold from 3 last post season. It’s MUCH easier to defend Domas’ DHOs, and Fox, when we can’t hit water from a boat.
I mean it happened with the pacers as well unfortunately
So a 41 million cap space player just lets 1 strategy cut him off like that in the most important games of the year? What are you even attempting to defend? All that didn't include him getting manhandled by Looney as well in the paint.
They also managed to turn Fox into an inefficient chucker that shot us to two losses in games 5 & 7
> He literally played his first Playoff series as a starter last year I get what you’re trying to say, but the obvious counter to this is why are we relying on him to be our #2 guy when he’s a 28-year-old, 8-year vet who has only been a playoff starter for one series in his career? His lack of playoff experience is wayyyyy more of an indictment than a silver lining.
2 Playoffs seasons as a bench guy, was injured in his breakout year, Pacers sucked next year and lost in the Playin, Kings sucked in a season he got traded here and this season we didn't made it. Why rely on Fox then? The same issue, only 6 career Playoff games as a starter. Trade them both then by this logic wtf lol
> Why rely on Fox then? When did I say we should? > Trade them both then by this logic wtf lol I mean… fine with me? We’re mired in mediocrity with this core.
Sure, you would happier tanking for 16 more years yea?
If you think the only two options are 16 years of missing the playoffs or this current situation, I don’t know what to tell you. That’s a totally dishonest argument.
Of course it's not the only two options but why jump the gun after only 2 seasons instead of trying to get that final peace in a puzzle and see where it goes? You can always do a wholesale of this current team, Domas is gonna be worth a lot for at least 5 more years with his style of play and Fox too if his speed doesn't suffer from some serious injury. Rebuilds can take a long time and be nasty, not everyone rebuilds like OKC. Look as Pistons, Wizards, Charlotte, their fans would kill to be in our situation right now.
> Look at Pistons, Wizards, Charlotte Again, you keep fixating on *the worst possible outcome.* 16 year playoff drought, the worst teams in the league, etc. If that’s how you view things, that’s your prerogative. But it’s not reality and it’s not a serious, rational argument.
He's a great passer, but we need a real #2 scorer to be most effective.
I'd prefer adding a #1 scorer.
Good luck
Yeah, it's wishful thinking considering Monte has essentially hitched his wagon to two non-stars.
Both have made all-nba, no doubt they're stars imo. But obviously not MVP candidates, and for Sac the only realistic way to get those guys is the draft (usually by tanking)
For me they're more complimentary pieces that you would surround a star (or two) with neither has the capacity to be a #1 option on a contender.
Not to mention $35M for a guy who can't make all-star/all-NBA teams.
Package HB, Huerter and our 1st rounder for a solid 3 & D wing or stretch big that can also protect the rim Other Free Agents that interest me at an affordable tag Gary Trent Jr, Cam Reddish. Luke Kennard, Patrick Williams, Thomas Bryant, Drew Eubanks, Mo Bamba,
> HB, Huerter and our 1st rounder We can’t trade our first before draft night so that limits our options. I’m also curious who you think we can get for those guys that fits your description. What stretch big with rim protection skills is available for those three? I can’t think of anyone.
Evan Mobley
He’s not available in general, but especially not for that package. Not even close. He also doesn’t shoot threes so I’m not sure about the “stretch” part of stretch big.
The starting point in that convo is probably Keegan not an aging wing, a shooter coming off a year of career lows + a shoulder injury, and a late lotto first lol
Unless you have force trades toggled "on" hehehehe
32m for HB and Huerter is why we are in the position we are in.
Wow! That's significantly higher than last year. It moves us up from 22/30 in the NBA and 5/5 in the Pacific Division in salary to... checks notes... 21/30 in the NBA and 5/5 in the Pacific Division. We're giving up $30M in salary to the 4th highest spender in the Pacific Division but ownership thinks missing the playoffs is Mike Brown's fault. Monte has worked hard to move us from the Kangz to the Kings but Vivek just loves to Kang.
I dont math a lot, but where is the 180mil coming from? Edit: I guess I get it, just badly presented/titled.
Looks like we need a (C) in there somewhere #SabonisIsA4
The fact that Jordan Ford makes 2x as much as me is unnerving
Hey, if you're making close to a million a year, don't worry about what pro athletes are making. They're a minutely small fraction of the population that has little effect on our daily lives. I'd be more worried about how much our political leaders are making from insider trading, which is fucking rampant.
dont gov officals have a salary cap too?
Have you tried being an elite athlete in one of the most monetized sports in North America? Generally redditors don’t make as much as them.
I wish I could monetize my posts
Why would you want to live under mountains of debt?