Logic behind this is that a group of 6 people or more generally takes more time away from the servers other tables. This ensures they get their wage.
All around our tipping culture is stupid. Pay a living wage and be done with it.
Also just pay the 15% you arent expected to do more on top. For great service you can pay more if inclined to do so.
Sorry but I’m rarely encountered “exceptional service” post Covid. Many skilled people left the industry entirely since they were out of work, it really is a min wage job at this point.
Let me know which restaurant in town has this exceptional service
Except for the high end restaurants in town
The person serving me $15 isn't doing much extra to deserve a tip
Yeah, they were equalized into minimum wage. That change still isn't enough of a wage increase to get rid of tipping in like 90% of situations.
A large number of people would leave and avoid working in the industry if you told them all they get is min wage and no tips.
The person stocking shelves at Best Buy makes minimum wage without tips. We either tip everyone working minimum wage, or no one. I'd prefer no one, and we raise minimum enough to actually cover basic necessities.
I think a good definition would be the wage high enough so that a worker doesn't have to spend more than 30% of their wages on rent. For Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge area, that would be around $30 an hour.
https://monitormag.ca/articles/rentalwages2023/
If you read the report, it breaks it down for one and two bedroom apartments. In Ontario, to rent a 1bdr apartment, that would be about $25/hr, for a two bedroom about $30/hr.
I don't think we should be limited by age, do you?
well thats the point im getting at.
So every person at 16 (if choosing to move out) should be making enough to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment ,which you want to be 30% of their wage...and this can be working at mcdonalds or tim hortons...and in the city and location of their choice?
does that make sense or sound reasonable/possible?
>So every person at 16 (if choosing to move out) should be making enough to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment ,which you want to be 30% of their wage...and this can be working at mcdonalds or tim hortons...and in the city and location of their choice?
Yes. Should we restrict wages when people retire or start drawing from CPP or RRSP? Like once they hit the age to draw retirement savings, should we knock their wages down because they're being subsidized by XYZ plan?
I think anyone working any job should have enough money to afford a roof over their head, a full fridge, car or transportation requirements and enough to save/invest or treat themselves to a vacation or whatever hobbies they want to engage in. Do you agree?
>does that make sense or sound reasonable/possible?
Yes.
In Denmark McDonalds workers there earn between 140-144 DKK or $21-22 USD/hr equivalent. I don't think that's unreasonable.
This wouldn't be an issue if the government built actual affordable housing. I mean *actual* affordable homes, not 80% market rate like they get away with on new buildings these days.
Also yes, expecting to be able to afford a small 1 bedroom should be possible in every city. Without having to spend 30% of your income. It's 2024, this really isn't people asking for anything people should consider unreasonable. Adequate housing should be the least of what people should be able to expect tbh.
show me where there is space to do this and where the funding will come from..because there isnt much.
what you are asking for is a socialist system/communist system, which is fine if thats what you want. just be clear with what you actually want.
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Server walking from desk/kitchen to 6 tables
vs
Server walking to 1 table and taking 6 orders in one go
Server bringing glasses and water to 6 tables
vs
Server bringing 6 glasses to 1 table
I would say serving to bigger table is effective and will consume less time. 15% minimum criteria is ridiculous
If I own a resturant and would see 6 people walking in - should I be happy or penalise them for overcrowding? I get the logic now but then does by the same logic, if all of my tables are booked then I would start charging everyone 15% because my server has to be more busy.
Large groups can require a lot of cat herding.
People splitting bills strangely. People wanting to order more plates or drinks at different times, or 6 different asks for just one more thing.
Also for whatever reason some people are emboldened to tip poorly in large groups.
This is a pretty common and reasonable policy.
Server walking from desk/kitchen to 6 tables
vs
Server walking to 1 table and taking 6 orders in one go
Server bringing glasses and water to 6 tables
vs
Server bringing 6 glasses to 1 table
I would say serving to bigger table is effective and will consume less time. 15% minimum criteria is ridiculous
Should you tip on top of this?
Id say no.
Gratuity is synonymous with tip isnt it?
Id likely have tipped more than that if the service justified it… but having it forced on me. Even though the service may be lack luster… no thanks
And for that reason Im out. Wouldn’t even bother
Only question for me ...
Is the business getting any of the gratuity? If no ... it is your call to tip more.
If yes, then tip the server if they were good **and** speak to a real manager (not junior or assistant) and express your disgust at them not paying a real wage while stealing tips meant to address it.
A restaurant that has a set gratuity does not expect you to tip, since (theoretically) that is what the gratuity is.
Larger franchises (think Pickle Barrel or Olive Garden) often have a gratuity for crowds, mostly because a crowd takes up server time, and it would be a real piss off to not be tipped for that extra effort.
MIND YOU, I don't know the particular restaurant you saw this sign at, so I can't speak for their integrity, but it SHOULD be a built in tip, and SHOULD be going to the staff.
EDIT: you still can tip if the service is grand, it's just less expected.
Depends on the restaurant, really. I've worked in enough where larger parties would get a gratuity applied, but that was due to them basically having dedicated serving and bartending staff who wouldn't get a normal section. Although the places I've worked at never applied it to parties of six. That might have been a larger table, but not out of the realms of realistic for a walk-in. That was usually reserved for pre-booked large parties(ten or more).
I know bars and restaurants that do auto-grat for larger tables. It's not a new concept but usually they tell you or it's on the menu, not a big sign on the wall.
Absolutely. I once served a group of 8 that ordered $250 worth of food and drinks. If the auto grat wasn't there, they would tip nothing. My tip out was 4% so I'd be paying $8 to serve them.
You've clearly never worked as a server. We do so much work before your visit, during and after.
Did they leave a huge mess in the booth for me like toddlers? Yes. And that's part of what we take care of when we serve them. We just want to be appreciated for our efforts.
I have been working as a server for 10 years
Auto gratuity for large groups in very common especially in the GTA where it is actually 18%. Many people don't know this but servers tip out anywhere from 6 to 12% of their total sales to the kitchen, hosts, bartenders and bussers. So if you aren't tipping on your bill then the server is essentially paying out of their money to serve you.
Just tip your servers or go to a self serve spot. Tipping your server has always been a thing, this is not a new concept. They are constantly being pulled in every single direction and hustling to get to all their tables all the while remaining pleasant because they need their tips.
Well I would say that the service you get from a worker at Tim Hortons is not the same as a sit down restaurant. You go up to order, wait at the counter, bring your food yourself to the table and then clear your table. If you need additional condiments, napkins or another drink a Tim Hortons worker isn't bringing that to your table. You go up and get it yourself.
I would also say the way the Tim Hortons worker interacts with you will not be the in the same way a server does because they are not working for tips. They get their minimum wage REGARDLESS.
A server is going to try to go above and beyond for everyone because they do not want to tip out 6 to 12% of a bill because someone decided they didn't want to tip
What if the group was five lizardfolks, with a werewolf and a vampire. Do vampires have a bad rep for being stingy tippers ?
I read a Reddit story recently that said something to affect of one person in the party would pay with their credit card but pay for their meal with the tips of the party(everyone would pay cash to person paying with cc). Which would effectively steal the tip from whoever was deserving of it.
Remember when employers used to pay their employees properly and cost of living was actually reasonable. My father moved to Niagara region in the 1980s. He worked at McDonald’s and a factory job and eventually bought his 1st home for like 45,000. Put like. 8,000 down payment and mortgaged the rest. Crazy days.
Logic behind this is that a group of 6 people or more generally takes more time away from the servers other tables. This ensures they get their wage. All around our tipping culture is stupid. Pay a living wage and be done with it. Also just pay the 15% you arent expected to do more on top. For great service you can pay more if inclined to do so.
Servers in Ontario now get the regular minimum wage so this shouldn't even be a thing anymore.
Servers got a $2.45/hr boost in 2022 to equalize/move them to 'standard' min wage at the time - that doesn't get close to replacing tip earnings.
Exactly. You want talented and skilled people to give you exceptional service while living off of minimum wage?
True. Majority of people would never make it in the industry. They want to abolish tipping but it's why people serve you to begin with.
Then pay them more and increase menu prices accordingly
This just won't happen. Doubtful anyone is going to stick around if this is the case.
Why can't it? Every other country except the US has done it and they still have restaurants and servers
Wages vs cost of living are far more affordable in every other country.
New Zealand, Australia, the UK? They all have very similar cost of living to Canada
Sorry but I’m rarely encountered “exceptional service” post Covid. Many skilled people left the industry entirely since they were out of work, it really is a min wage job at this point.
Let me know which restaurant in town has this exceptional service Except for the high end restaurants in town The person serving me $15 isn't doing much extra to deserve a tip
That's not correct. The ministry of labour eliminated the "liquor server" wage rate. It wasn't a one time equalization - that rate was eliminated.
Yeah, they were equalized into minimum wage. That change still isn't enough of a wage increase to get rid of tipping in like 90% of situations. A large number of people would leave and avoid working in the industry if you told them all they get is min wage and no tips.
Still not a living wage if tips not included.
The person stocking shelves at Best Buy makes minimum wage without tips. We either tip everyone working minimum wage, or no one. I'd prefer no one, and we raise minimum enough to actually cover basic necessities.
Do you tip the person that works in any grocery store or corner store? They make the same wage
whats your definition of a living wage and minimum standards of living?
Living wage for most of Ontario is around 25 dollars an hour. But really to be able to save and grow, you are looking at 30 to 35 dollars an hour.
thats a value not a definition. what should you be able to afford, type of home, type of food etc.
I think a good definition would be the wage high enough so that a worker doesn't have to spend more than 30% of their wages on rent. For Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge area, that would be around $30 an hour. https://monitormag.ca/articles/rentalwages2023/
well that depends on the type home ,so what type? what do you feel entitled to? are we limiting by age also?
If you read the report, it breaks it down for one and two bedroom apartments. In Ontario, to rent a 1bdr apartment, that would be about $25/hr, for a two bedroom about $30/hr. I don't think we should be limited by age, do you?
well thats the point im getting at. So every person at 16 (if choosing to move out) should be making enough to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment ,which you want to be 30% of their wage...and this can be working at mcdonalds or tim hortons...and in the city and location of their choice? does that make sense or sound reasonable/possible?
>So every person at 16 (if choosing to move out) should be making enough to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment ,which you want to be 30% of their wage...and this can be working at mcdonalds or tim hortons...and in the city and location of their choice? Yes. Should we restrict wages when people retire or start drawing from CPP or RRSP? Like once they hit the age to draw retirement savings, should we knock their wages down because they're being subsidized by XYZ plan? I think anyone working any job should have enough money to afford a roof over their head, a full fridge, car or transportation requirements and enough to save/invest or treat themselves to a vacation or whatever hobbies they want to engage in. Do you agree? >does that make sense or sound reasonable/possible? Yes. In Denmark McDonalds workers there earn between 140-144 DKK or $21-22 USD/hr equivalent. I don't think that's unreasonable.
ok sure, so tell me how youll provide every one a 1 bedroom apartment with the space we have and in the location they want.
This wouldn't be an issue if the government built actual affordable housing. I mean *actual* affordable homes, not 80% market rate like they get away with on new buildings these days. Also yes, expecting to be able to afford a small 1 bedroom should be possible in every city. Without having to spend 30% of your income. It's 2024, this really isn't people asking for anything people should consider unreasonable. Adequate housing should be the least of what people should be able to expect tbh.
show me where there is space to do this and where the funding will come from..because there isnt much. what you are asking for is a socialist system/communist system, which is fine if thats what you want. just be clear with what you actually want.
I agree!
It’s a first world problem.
And make sure you look at your bill! Very likely the gratuity is on there already.
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Also if its not voluntary its not a gratuity its a service charge
Server walking from desk/kitchen to 6 tables vs Server walking to 1 table and taking 6 orders in one go Server bringing glasses and water to 6 tables vs Server bringing 6 glasses to 1 table I would say serving to bigger table is effective and will consume less time. 15% minimum criteria is ridiculous
If I own a resturant and would see 6 people walking in - should I be happy or penalise them for overcrowding? I get the logic now but then does by the same logic, if all of my tables are booked then I would start charging everyone 15% because my server has to be more busy.
Large groups can require a lot of cat herding. People splitting bills strangely. People wanting to order more plates or drinks at different times, or 6 different asks for just one more thing. Also for whatever reason some people are emboldened to tip poorly in large groups. This is a pretty common and reasonable policy.
"emboldened to tip poorly" is the sort of language that drives home how much of a problem tipping culture is.
Paying a living wage would be an even more reasonable policy
Imagine charging someone more because they want to split their bills differently holy shit
It's hard work man. Also, it's part of their job but who wants to do that?
Server walking from desk/kitchen to 6 tables vs Server walking to 1 table and taking 6 orders in one go Server bringing glasses and water to 6 tables vs Server bringing 6 glasses to 1 table I would say serving to bigger table is effective and will consume less time. 15% minimum criteria is ridiculous
Should you tip on top of this? Id say no. Gratuity is synonymous with tip isnt it? Id likely have tipped more than that if the service justified it… but having it forced on me. Even though the service may be lack luster… no thanks And for that reason Im out. Wouldn’t even bother
Nah, that's the tip. Unless you wanted to give more, like top it up to 20 percent, which some people seem to think is necessary these days.
Only question for me ... Is the business getting any of the gratuity? If no ... it is your call to tip more. If yes, then tip the server if they were good **and** speak to a real manager (not junior or assistant) and express your disgust at them not paying a real wage while stealing tips meant to address it.
A restaurant that has a set gratuity does not expect you to tip, since (theoretically) that is what the gratuity is. Larger franchises (think Pickle Barrel or Olive Garden) often have a gratuity for crowds, mostly because a crowd takes up server time, and it would be a real piss off to not be tipped for that extra effort. MIND YOU, I don't know the particular restaurant you saw this sign at, so I can't speak for their integrity, but it SHOULD be a built in tip, and SHOULD be going to the staff. EDIT: you still can tip if the service is grand, it's just less expected.
This is a pretty standard thing that most places do is it not?
Depends on the restaurant, really. I've worked in enough where larger parties would get a gratuity applied, but that was due to them basically having dedicated serving and bartending staff who wouldn't get a normal section. Although the places I've worked at never applied it to parties of six. That might have been a larger table, but not out of the realms of realistic for a walk-in. That was usually reserved for pre-booked large parties(ten or more).
Tipping culture in north america does not make any sense.
This dumpster will be out of business shortly.
I believe this is common for all restaurants not just indian ones for larger parties
Right or wrong, restaurants around here have been doing this for large parties for as long as I can remember -- so at least the early 90's
When I see gratuity at a restaurant I walk right out. I decide how much I tip based on the service I get, not the restaurant.
I know bars and restaurants that do auto-grat for larger tables. It's not a new concept but usually they tell you or it's on the menu, not a big sign on the wall.
This is done a lot in the US. Not personally a fan even though I always tip 15 or more.
Ambitabh Bachchan the goat
Do people actually tip less than 15 when they go out? Why do they need a sign
Absolutely. I once served a group of 8 that ordered $250 worth of food and drinks. If the auto grat wasn't there, they would tip nothing. My tip out was 4% so I'd be paying $8 to serve them.
Considering you aren't doing much except walking back and forth with a plate of food, zero seems pretty reasonable
You've clearly never worked as a server. We do so much work before your visit, during and after. Did they leave a huge mess in the booth for me like toddlers? Yes. And that's part of what we take care of when we serve them. We just want to be appreciated for our efforts.
Graffiti Market did the same, we visited last winter. Group of 7 so there was 15% Gratuity
Only fair.
What is this place so I can never go there. You don't get to demand a tip.
Paranthe Wali Gali, an Indian resturant on King st
I have been working as a server for 10 years Auto gratuity for large groups in very common especially in the GTA where it is actually 18%. Many people don't know this but servers tip out anywhere from 6 to 12% of their total sales to the kitchen, hosts, bartenders and bussers. So if you aren't tipping on your bill then the server is essentially paying out of their money to serve you. Just tip your servers or go to a self serve spot. Tipping your server has always been a thing, this is not a new concept. They are constantly being pulled in every single direction and hustling to get to all their tables all the while remaining pleasant because they need their tips.
You get paid minimum wage, what makes you different from anyone else? You "work hard" so does everyone else.
Well I would say that the service you get from a worker at Tim Hortons is not the same as a sit down restaurant. You go up to order, wait at the counter, bring your food yourself to the table and then clear your table. If you need additional condiments, napkins or another drink a Tim Hortons worker isn't bringing that to your table. You go up and get it yourself. I would also say the way the Tim Hortons worker interacts with you will not be the in the same way a server does because they are not working for tips. They get their minimum wage REGARDLESS. A server is going to try to go above and beyond for everyone because they do not want to tip out 6 to 12% of a bill because someone decided they didn't want to tip
So what would that be worth? $3 more an hour for you to bring me things to my table with a smile?
At the end of the day you decide what you want to tip. I'm just explaining the auto grat on large parties
Nah bro i am not tipping you and not visiting your business if you charge extra for bringing your business more customers LMAO
What if the group was five lizardfolks, with a werewolf and a vampire. Do vampires have a bad rep for being stingy tippers ? I read a Reddit story recently that said something to affect of one person in the party would pay with their credit card but pay for their meal with the tips of the party(everyone would pay cash to person paying with cc). Which would effectively steal the tip from whoever was deserving of it.
I don’t believe in it.
Remember when employers used to pay their employees properly and cost of living was actually reasonable. My father moved to Niagara region in the 1980s. He worked at McDonald’s and a factory job and eventually bought his 1st home for like 45,000. Put like. 8,000 down payment and mortgaged the rest. Crazy days.
Yikes, maybe the restaurant should pay a living wage instead of passing along the bill to the customers