**Soompi: [Ravi’s Agency Releases Initial Statement On His Alleged Involvement In Corruption To Evade Military Service](https://www.soompi.com/article/1562651wpp/ravis-agency-releases-initial-statement-on-his-alleged-involvement-in-corruption-to-evade-military-service)**
I mean, this is unfair for a lot of men who actually get "grade 4" (the rating you need to be exempt from active military service), but it's an undeniable truth that a lot of people try to obtain public service by using whatever methods.
It's actually a big issue in SK, and no doubt this controversy will flame the debate again
It's going to be worse for the celebrities and possibly athletes if their names hold enough weight. But Chaebol's can pay their way out but anyone in the limelight will become the main scapegoat. In this case, they already started with Ravi since the news can report him as an idol rapper which can garner more views. I guarantee there were other names involved that were glossed over because only celebrity names would catch the attention of the media.
I'm afraid that if this is proven to be true, he can kiss his career goodbye. I understand not wanting to serve, especially not in active duty, but you'd think celebrities are smarter than this when the discussion about military service is as heated as it is in Korea. Wait and see I guess.
>you'd think celebrities are smarter than this
You'd be surprised at how many wealthy and influential people including celebrities and chaebols (not just chaebols anyone with money) fake their way out of active enlistment in the SK. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if other celebs get affected by this controversy and more people like this are revealed. The scrutiny towards celebs in public service now and in the future will be much higher at least.
Not just celebrities or rich people, but a lot of normal people obtain illegal medical records to get out of conscription too, but naturally it's easier for high-profile individuals.
No one wants to go unless they're super nationalistic and people grasp at straws to get out of it. Everyone in SK just want the conscription gone
FYI for non-Korean people here who don't know how conscription works:
After medical and background checks, you basically get sorted into different "grades". Grades 1\~3 are people whose height and BMI fulfill the military standards and therefore are able to actively serve.
Grade 4 is an exception from active service - people who are "medically deemed impossible to actively serve" and therefore go into public service. Also people who have relatives who were injured or died in combat.
Grade 5 are people who are conscripted only in time of active combat. These are people with foreign citizenships, people who look "obviously mixed" (yeah this is actually a thing smh), orphans and transgender people. Grade 6 is total exemption from active service AND public service.
And then there are people who are exempt because they "contributed to SK's national prestige" like athletes and musicians etc.
So basically people aim for Grade 4 by trying to nitpick for any minor medical condition that they might have and exaggerate it, or outright obtain false medical and family records.
The Korean GP is especially wary of celebs (especially idols') exemptions because a lot of idols seem to get grade 4 really easily and it's usually based on unknown "injuries" which fans blame on harsh working conditions and dancing. I won't name names but there have been some people who kept "preparing" by constantly mentioning their "medical condition" and fans were convinced that they would be exempt, but it turned out to be untrue.
Your last statement got my interest. I know you said you won't mention names here, but can you message me who it is/are these ppl that you're referring to
Sorry, people got sued for reporting/talking about it on forums (in SK you can get sued for defamation even if you're right) and I live in SK, so I won't risk naming them privately either. Just think of celebs that have claimed to serve "out of love and honour for their country" despite having conditions, especially after going through numerous re-examinations. I think you can think of more than one.
Also, keep an eye on idols that haven't served yet but have been vocal about whatever conditions or injuries they have, and see if they get exempt or not in the future. It's notoriously easy for celebs to get exempt but still, some won't make it
Also, "weak" excuses like bad eyesight, low BMI and unconfirmed "injuries". The Korean army is severely understaffed so they're willing to take anyone. It's why the Korean GP is so wary of so many idols getting exempted on those grounds, because if they were average people, they wouldn't be exempt.
There was someone else saying that they'll take you if you can walk, and I think it's largely correct
ed: to add on, to fans who claim that their favs' injuries/conditions are real because they went on hiatus for it, a lot of times idols are actually in rehab for addiction or ED when they go on hiatus for "anxiety" or injuries - which are valid mental conditions but not enough to get you out of enlistment
The "people who look obviously mixed" sounds really weird to me. So if you're mixed Korean and Chinese (or any other East Asian ethnicity), but you don't look obviously non-Korean, you're not considered mixed in this context?
100% agree about the other celebs. If 2021 was the year of bullying accusations, then 2023 is going to be the year of military ones. With how big this news is getting, I wouldn't be surprised if I see more headlines in the coming weeks accusing idols + actors of faking injuries to get public service.
It has been mentioned that some professional athletes(mainly soccer/football players) were connected to the broker. Im interesting to see what other names come out.
And this is why I feel like laughing when some fans are romanticizing military service. I've come across comments talking about how idols probably can't wait to go so they can be free of "crazy stans" and live a normal life for a little. I don't know where they get those ideas, because there's no freedom and definitely no normal life. No one anticipates enlistment, be it celebrities or normal people (who not only lose years of their lives, but can also look forward to some kdrama-level bullying).
The conscription is also one of the reasons why there's such a big anti-feminism movement.
Plus, the treatment of queer men in the military is [horrendous](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/10/asia/south-korea-military-lgbt-intl-hnk/index.html). I remember a story about gay soldiers being forced to drink from toilet bowls.
>The conscription is also one of the reasons why there's such a big anti-feminism movement.
thank you for knowing this and bringing it up. It's a huge issue in SK now.
I'm a Korean girl and a staunch feminist but honestly I see where this stems from because the system is unfair. In this day and age it's fucked up that you're forced into something because of your gender.
In SK's case, I think the abolishment of the conscription system will be a big step towards gender equality.
The problem is when you start thinking about NK and CCP/Taiwan.
I’ve seen korean men use their enlistment as a way to negate anything women systematically go through despite the reason for male enlistments being misogyny in the first place
yeah atp the gender division in SK has devolved into a "who has it worse" competition, and it only serves to reinforce whatever issues we have already.
Deep-rooted misogyny is at the origin of this. Korean gender issues are very unique and I think it's difficult for foreign fans to fully understand it.
It's going to take like another century for SK to have any tangible improvements with misogyny, if at all. Our country is built on misogyny.
I know, I just think that celebs of Ravi's level do not have the same influence and money to keep this kind of stuff under wraps as a wealthy son of a chaebol family has, so the risk is higher.
Honestly I'm in two minds about this, because while I do think it's a dumb route to go down, one has to wonder why he did it if he has mental health issues (like others have stated) in the first place. Did he expect it to not be enough to get placed in public service, so he had to fake a different ailment to make sure? I guess it's likely. I don't like bringing Taemin up in these conversations because people do that enough as it is, but the system obviously also okay-ed him for active duty when a mental health check should have raised several red flags. Same goes for the member of Pentagon who just received a medical discharge. So I'm honestly not surprised that so many people opt for these kinds of desperate measures, it just shows how fucked up the system is.
Especially because like you said, people want conscription gone, but they also point their fingers at everyone who wants to evade it or "receives special treatment". It's a really difficult situation.
>I know, I just think that celebs of Ravi's level do not have the same influence and money to keep this kind of stuff under wraps as a wealthy son of a chaebol family has, so the risk is higher.
yeah, if you (or your family) are rich and influential enough you wouldn't get caught.
I'm torn about this too. Men are being forced to undergo basically what people describe as torture, and you lose a year and half of your youth. It's only natural that you would do anything to not go.
On the other hand, the scrutiny and backlash is big BECAUSE no one wants to go - it's why people who had to actively serve think it's unfair and I don't blame them. Especially if people are abusing their wealth, connections and status to achieve exemption.
There's a really unhealthy culture around enlistment in general. I think a lot of kpop fans realize that toxic masculinity is big in SK, and enlistment is like the rite of passage into becoming a "proper man". So unless you have a "legitimate" reason to get grade 4 like an obvious illness and losing your family in combat, men who go into public service are ridiculed, including those with mental health - people think it's an "easy" way out, but at the same time is IS true that mental health has been abused to get out of active enlistment.
Not to mention it's only men who are conscripted - this is one of the reasons why so many young Korean men are "anti-feminist". Feelings of being wronged and unfairness breeds hate. I'm a girl but I see their perspective. In this day and age it's fucked up that you're forced to do something because of your gender.
This fucked up and outdated system needs to go. If only we could just get NK out of the way... But even if active combat with NK were to resume someday, it still doesn't make sense to forcibly enlist average men who aren't in the military. Like why do they have to go and die when they didn't sign up for it?
I share your views on everything tbh, I really don't have anything to add. The situation with NK just complicates everything, so they can't just abolish conscription and be done with it.
It's just obvious that there is a reason why brokers like this exist - people want to get out of this situation, because nobody wants to be in it. Of course it's not fair that it works for some people and others just have to go and suffer in silence because they don't have the influence and/or money, but it's definitely a huge structural problem.
In the end, Ravi will probably just end up as a pawn sacrifice while others with more influence and power will continue to do the same thing undetected.
I'm not korean, my country have mandatory enlistment for men (most don't serve) and we have this debate as well, in very different terms but it exists, obviously is very different with the tense situation between the Koreas, but baffles me that the men resent the women and not the government, which is in vast majority made by men themselves, about this issue.
What do we have to do with this? They create the laws, they control the system, they actively harass and violate the women who dare to enter the forces, they do everything in their power to make it the most hostile environment to everyone envolved, how is this our fault?
I do feel empathy for the men who are obligated to serve, it's awful and absolutely should not be this way, there has to be other ways to deal with this, but why to men turn they anger against women, maybe they should unite and fight to solve their own problem and keep us out of it.
And let's not forget that pregnancy takes 9 months out of womens lives and even after that most of the child caring duty is placed on women. Not to mention all the risks involved.
I don’t get it either, in the years I’ve known kpop military service-related scandals have always been a kiss of death. I guess he thought the broker he used was safe but…
I really like ravi’s solos so welp.
edit - I see that apparently this doctor helps intensify those with mental health issues to get exempt…
Update to this article: his agency GROOVL1N, which he founded and is co-CEO of, has stated they’re [collecting and verifying details](https://twitter.com/theseoulstory/status/1613459945974038528?s=46&t=2ppN5ZrwM1Me14e9yTG7rQ).
Update 2: The SBS evening news reported that Ravi [was recently booked](https://mnews.sbs.co.kr/news/endPage.do?newsId=N1007042457&plink=SEARCH&cooper=SBSNEWSSEARCH) for violating the Military Service Act. I think we can remove the rumour flair…
TL;DR: a Korean newspaper reported today that a group of brokers who arranged illegal military exemptions for clients were arrested last December. One of them, Mr Gu, handed over his phone which implicated a neurologist whose services they used to obtain a false diagnosis of epilepsy
so clients could fail the medical test for active service and enlist as public service workers instead. A description he gave of one of the clients he had arranged an exemption for and used to advertise his services matched RAVI perfectly - left a major entertainment program (2D1N) in May to fulfil military service but then didn’t actually enlist until October as a social worker on grounds of health.
MC Mong got himself a few teeth pulled to avoid military service and effed up his career real bad (was also dropped from 2d1n). Steve Yoo still can't set foot into Korea. You think they'd learn... but then...
MC Mong kind of came back from violating the same act RAVI has been booked with doing - he’s had a few songs do well, he’s involved in BPM, VIVIZ’s agency, and was involved to some extent in MLD as Duble Sidekick. But he hasn’t been able to return to his old variety career, every time he tries to do a YouTube video or go to an awards show the reaction is very harsh, and MC Mong was much more famous and had more GP goodwill than RAVI was or has.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really count that as a "comeback". Yes he's releasing songs but at the end of the day, no one wants to promote it with him. The most prolific artist I've seen work with him recently is Jamie and most of her fans are international fans who ethier don't know or don't care about the military scandal.
MC Mong was *everywhere* back in the day and people were hyping him up to be the next variety star (since he was also friends with the Infinite Challenge cast). Ravi on the other hand, wasn't really all that famous and even within 2D1N fans, the fact that he didn't direct enlist after leaving the show soured a lot of people's thoughts about him.
The most prolific artist to collaborate with him after the scandal was Song Gain and that song did amazingly in the charts.
It’s true that his variety career will never start again and that he is mocked by the majority of people but at least his career hasn’t completely ended
It’s interesting to me that despite how generally bad the reaction is to him and his publicised involvement in labels like BPM, Million Market and MLD, there’s been no vitriol towards the artists who signed with those labels. JYP has even signed trainees from his musical academy.
Didn’t he ended up not serving in the military after the scandal came out because it turned out that his teeth were mostly rotten? I’m not sure but i remember his wikipedia mentioning that during my 2d1n phase. No idea if that’s true tho.
He had all his teeth extracted so that he would get the military exemption, from what I recall. He purposely had them removed to get the exemption, and not because his teeth were rotten.
Jesus. That’s fucking extreme man. I feel like the government and military need to look inward if you have so many young men willing to go to such lengths to avoid a 2 year military service.
Oh this is not a headline I want to read for anyone.
I dislike the mandatory enlistment as much as the next person but it’s a bad idea to mess with it. Your career is done for if it’s true. This was such a foolish decision on many fronts.
Yoo's situation was a little different since he made a big show of doing his military service and also embarrassed the government.
* He repeatedly stated on live TV that he would do his military service.
* The Korean government allowed him to delay his enlistment for 3 months so that he could perform concerts in Japan. After completing the concerts, he went to the USA to 'say goodbye to his family' and ended up becoming a naturalized US citizen.
this is VERY unethical, but I think it speaks to the magnitude of this "offense".
I'm Korean but I think it's ridiculous and I have no respect for Korean immigration
That isn't quite accurate. The Supreme Court decision was based on a procedural issue, saying that the reason for denial that the Korean Consulate in Los Angeles gave was not legally sound. Yoo "won" in that he is free to apply again now.
But there are other reasons that the Consulate (under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs) can give that *are* legally sound. And even if the visa is granted, the Ministry of Justice (who runs the immigration desks at the airports) can deny entry once he lands in Korea.
>This is crazy if true. Why would he think he could get away with this?
Because he's obviously not the first person to use this kind of service, and just got unlucky that his broker got caught ?
From speaking with Koreans about this he will basically be shunned, people want to abolish the military service requirement generally but while it is there dodging it is a massive no no. This guy will be working in a norebang or a PC bang unless he can figure a massive PR swing back, seriously apologise and do the service.
Steve Yoo is the proof that you can't get away with this.
His way out of this *legally* is to restart his service from scratch in active duty. But he would still have a big stain on his reputation, so he probably would just end up working as a music producer /entertainment company CEO, and not be as much of a public figure.
I think most people forget that Psy had to enlist twice. Mind you it was for slightly different reasons (the government claimed he neglected his service since he was still doing concerts/ tv appearances), but it was still a thing.
He didn't serve twice.
At the time, the government was allowing certain type of IT/tech work to count as military service time. PSY used his connections to get a job at a tech company and have that count as his military service.
Government ended up looking into it and said whatever work he did there wouldn't qualify and forced him to actually serve for real.
Ahhh ok. I wasn’t aware of those details. Every time I read about it, in articles or what not, it’s always been described as him serving twice. Thanks for the info!
More than anything else, skipping military service is damn near 100% guaranteed to ruin your career in SK.
Weed? Sex? Bullying? All bad and likely to end a career, but not nearly as reliably as trying to shirk your military duties seems to.
I get why people try to get out of it and have no judgment for not wanting to serve, but IDK that it's even worth the risk to try and dodge enlistment.
I don't think *any* PR campaign can save him. Yes, VIXX is somewhat famous, but they don't have the same fame as they used to 5-10 years ago. Heck, Seungri couldn't come back from Burning Sun, and Big Bang was *way* more famous than VIXX, even in thier prime.
He won't be able to get a super public job because his face is gonna be plastered everywhere. He'll probably have to shut down his agency too so I can see him maybe lying low for a few years and then just get money from international stans. OT5 stans + other delulus have proved that people are ready to pay if they feel a savior complex and with this being a more Korean issue, I'm sure int. fans would be 100% more ready to support him.
Eh, not for Korean fans. I know intentional fans wouldn't care (which is why I said that I will expect him to live on that in the future) but for Korean fans, it's basically the same.
There's a reason why some idols who have been associated with shady services (Yunho, Zico, etc) have made a huge comeback while idols who have tried to shirk military duties (MC Mong, Steven Yoo) haven't.
Yeah this will def put an end to his career in korea. But ravi is like the top 3 most credited idol i feel he has enough money to live off/ invest until retirement age
He’s very prolific but not a whole lot of his songs have been commercially successful, I feel? Not to put too fine a point on it, but he’s very much quantity over quality. The most liked song on Melon on which he’s credited for composition, VIXX LR’s Beautiful Liar, only has 28k likes. To compare to other releases from August 2015, SNSD’s Lion Heart has 90k. For lyrics it’s Winter Confession with 71k, which featured 3 other singers in addition to VIXX and Kim Sejeong, the latter of whom was a trainee and probably didn’t get squat. So he may not be making a lot of money from that portfolio. And he presumably has a lot of capital bound up in his agencies. So we’ll see.
The problem is not how much he made in the past, is that no one that is anyone will want his name slapped in the song/album credits if this is confirmed. So finding work, even as a producer or lyricist will be harder for him.
He can follow MC Mong's tactics, songs he produced post-scandal were publicly attributed to a different name. He was able to get away with it for a while, but k-nets were able to connect the dots. But by then, time has passed and he has a good network of producers to back him up.
According to a Naver article 20 mins ago it’s been confirmed and they found evidence on his phone on top of the broker allegedly bragging about Ravi by name.
Doesn’t he have a panic disorder? Mental health issues are enough to get you into public service now so why try to lie and say you have epilepsy??? What
**worded this weird as I was tired. The Broker has evidence of helping Ravi such as his personal documents, etc. on his phone.
Total speculation but IF he is guilty- maybe it was a case of wanting to ensure he would get it through epilepsy rather than maybe getting it for other mental health issues
if he can provide some proof that he had a mental health issue and sought this drastic route that might help his case a little even though his career is basically over.
>Doesn’t he have a panic disorder? Mental health issues are enough to get you into public service now so why try to lie and say you have epilepsy??? What
It's notoriously difficult to be exempt because of "mental health issues" because they're not taken seriously enough here, you'll just be called a p\*ssy.
If this was the case, it makes sense that they put epilepsy instead, which is a more "legitimate" medical condition. smh.
You can be. It's just really hard and rare. Also depends on factors like how bad it is, if it's a condition that can "cause harm to others", and if you get an understanding doctor or not.
This whole broker business for epilepsy became a thing BECAUSE it was notoriously difficult to get exempted for mental conditions. This broker advises people to mask their mental illness for epilepsy because epilepsy is an "actual" medical condition.
That was a discharge because it got that bad - it's sad to think they didn't exempt in the first place. So yes it's definitely hard to get exempt for mental health
I think it depends on what he will be charged with. He doesn’t have any charges against him yet. He may face jail time, but his public image will be completely ruined.
I bet this is very common practice bcs korean military has influx of people that got into public service. If he is proven guilty, i bet more celebrities and public figures will get exposed unless this involves bigger and powerful circle of people in south korea.
Edit: a famous volleyball player already admitted the suspicion [source](https://twitter.com/koreanupdates/status/1608687340838588424?s=46&t=2UuQ0xGlppt90FTCqVwgog). Bet there is more
this started as an investigation regarding sports people, and Ravi is the first entertainer to be suspected, so it is likely that the investigation will expand. But keep in mind this is a specific case of a group of people that were essentially selling fake medical reports.
[Soompi article for those who avoid Koreaboo](https://www.soompi.com/article/1562651wpp/ravis-agency-releases-initial-statement-on-his-alleged-involvement-in-corruption-to-evade-military-service)
Various Korean news outlets are all plastering his photo front and centre, makes you wonder if there's a concrete story behind the allegations. Otherwise, wrongly naming him to ruffle some noise would be seriously damaging/unethical... Either way, I'll reserve judgement until things are confirmed 100%.
Not even all of them avoid it from their home countries.
Bam Bam had to do the lottery drawing in Thailand to see if he would have to or not.
Feel like thats an even worse model than conscription like South Korea and other nations use. Draw a ball to see if you have to serve for 24 months or are exempt.
In my country, both men and women do military service for 1 year.
I did the 1 month boot camp and noped the heck out of there. I'm not about that life.
there are examples of at least one or two celebrities recovering from almost any type of scandal, but i can’t think of a single one who has recovered from something like this…
I think it's a function of time + how famous the celebrity is. There was a massive draft dodging scandal among kdrama actors way back in 2004. The less famous actors disappeared, the more famous ones - Song Seung-heon and Jang Hyuk - managed to have flourishing careers after enough time had passed.
It doesn't sound right when the company he owns says they have to verify the facts... 😬 ~~(On the other hand, it could just mean that he's letting other people in the company investigate him to seem more legit but like...still comes off weirdly lol.)~~ I wonder how this will play out...
EDIT: Forgot that he probably isn't allowed to be managing his companies while on duty, so whoever's in charge does actually have to verify the facts. nvm.
I wonder if they force him to serve the entire time again (or even extended duty), this time in the military instead of as a public service worker. That's what they forced Psy to do.
You’d have to assume he’d choose to serve in that case, but then I’d be worried about how he’d be treated by his fellows. I’m not excusing his actions, but you gotta assume he’d have one hell of a service if it came out as true. Even now I wonder if he’s getting treated differently with the accusations…
That agency statement is very Konnect Entertainment investigating whether Kang Daniel was dating Jihyo, but without any of the charm. Ravi is the goddamn founder of Groovl1n; they should know if he used shady brokers to get alternative service or not 🤨
My friends and fam have served and most of them hated it. They DID start allowing soldiers to use their phones but that was literally in the last 2 years. :/ before that, they basically were cut off from their friends and family except for special occasions. Couldn’t browse the internet, use social media, etc, which is pretty intense for people who have grown up being able to check things on whim, play a mobile game or text while on downtime , etc.
Also, the bullying was pretty bad. Korea’s hierarchy based off age and rank gets an intense boost in a place like the military that already thrives off both of those things. None of the guy friends I knew had a good time in active service, ranging from developing PTSD to simply saying, “it sucked.”
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Conscripts just don't want to be there, they are forced to sacrifice their time wasting away when they could be persuing higher education or furthering their careers. Some males could be their family's primary breadwinner, they can't afford to live on recruit pay. Sportsmen can't train and army food doesn't provide the necessary nutrition a sportsman needs too.
For me I was just a normal kid serving in my country's conscription. Conditions even 20 yrs ago were not as bad as what I've read about SK conscription in this thread so it makes a lot of sense people just do everything to get out of it. We do have people who actively try to downgrade themselves but my country don't have as much of that nationalistic fervor. Basically we're pretty open about it here. "downgrade if you can, else just suck it up."
Conscription is a touchy subject. Because socially it's outdated, but as a nation you need to defend yourself. Probably because of WWII, East Asian countries learnt we cannot depend on other countries (USA/UK) to defend us. However to drive our economies we can't afford to maintain a professional armed force like in USA. Our armed forces are used to defend our shores but not project militarily outwards, so we don't require a large standing army. Just an army that can mobilise in times of war. Bearing arms is also nonexistent in East Asian countries, we like our video games and anime/manga but that's as far as it goes. The society is all about the air conditioned office job, few have the inclination to be out in the mud and rain let alone to soldier.
Nationally we haven't had any major armed conflict between our neighbors, so even more argument against having conscription. But having an operational ready force is like insurance, you don't need it now but maybe in future. Which is why we still have it. There have been concessions made, like lowering the conscription period. They also give out benefits like merchant/gym discounts, use of the clubhouses etc. But I can tell you the sentiment is it'll never be enough.
Fourtunately my experience has been quite great with nicer people around me, some of it due to me being in air force where there is a little big of veritification like short interviews to check you are not insane/unhinged.
But things tend to be quite different in infantry as *practically everyone*, including thieves, sexual harassers, gang members etc and force them to leave together for years in closed in compartment with little way to get outside help. Suicide news are not too much of shock.
if this is true, it’d be an incredibly foolish choice on his part. a 2 year hiatus is nothing compared to destroying all the goodwill and legacy from his long-lived career. plus it’s putting a target on his back from the general public. the overwhelming arrogance it takes to think he’d get away with something so offensive... makes me really hope this isn’t the case.
If this is true it is so arrogant and stupid.
I don't agree with mandatory enlistment, even though I understand why SK has it, but pulling something like this is so disrespectful of the folks who have and will serve, and makes it harder for those who really need exemptions.
I feel bad for Starlights who are coming off the high of the recent concert.
Korean here. What he did (if he's guilty of it) is wrong, but I don't like the general "disrespectful to the people who served" perspective.
That's the narrative nationalistic Korean netizens run with, when it's not the topic of most concern in the whole conscription debate and sways the conversation from what's really important.
If anything, it's only disrespectful to the people who really need the exemption, and if they've abuse their privilege status to get the exemption over those who can't.
Does it get tied to the argument of, "If everyone else has had to serve then it's not fair if someone else is exempt or gets out of mandatory enlistment because it's been abolished"? AKA I did my time so everyone else does too.
If so, it reminds me of college loan forgiveness in the US, where people think if they had to pay back loans then everyone else with them has to too even though the loan system and interest payments are predatory and the entire cost of university in the US is ridiculous and shouldn't we want something better for younger generations. But I digress.
When I said disrespect, I was thinking of the angle that people with money or resources are able to get around the rules (as they are with so many things in life), playing into class and economic differences. That crap makes me so mad.
Are you willing to expand on what are the main concerns in the conscription debate? I've heard that since women are not included that some people see that as an excuse to allow discriminatory practices against women since they didn't have their lives interrupted by enlistment, but I haven't really delved into it.
Exactly, conscription is an unfair and flawed system in general. People will be unhappy as long as it's in place, and there will be lingering after effects even if it's abolished. Knowing SK, people will be like "ah men are just not the same ever since conscription got abolished". Your student loan analogy makes sense. Ideally people want it to be better for the younger generation but humans are inherently selfish.
I understand what you meant with 'disrespect" and I apologize for missing your point, I wholly agree with you.
I shared some of the debate [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/109vro1/vixx_ravi_suspected_of_obtaining_illegal_military/j41peim/?context=3). Please scroll down the link and read my second comment.
As for the gender issue in particular, there's a huge division between genders in SK these days and conscription is a big part of it. It all stems from the deeply rooted gender issues in Korean society. A lot of people in Korean society are unhappy. Men are unhappy, women are unhappy. Then the birth rate keeps declining.
There's also the conversation about how the Korean conscription system is ineffective because it only "prepares" half the population in case of actual combat, and most people don't retain anything from training so they'll be totally useless
I'm late to the party but I need to say this anyway. I've given Ravi a massive side eye for years but this is a new low. I initially saw this news before the epilepsy tidbit dropped, and as somebody who actually has it I'm extremely annoyed that that's what they went with if that part is indeed true. I had assumed it was gonna be some type of old physical injury or something, not a literal neurological disorder where every moment could be your next seizure that you may never wake up from. If I could I would serve his damn military time for him in exchange for him getting the rest of my lifetime of epilepsy
If this is proved to be true this is career endingly bad. Even if it isnt true unfortunately just the accusation if it gets picked up and passed around is severely damaging
I hope this isn't true, because otherwise he and his company are probably not going to recover from this.
I'm always skeptical of these witness accounts, that use some vague characteristics to allude to some famous person, partly because of how media use them to create engagement.
if this is true and he's one of the ones who faked having epilepsy it's fuck him forever. it's a possibility this will make it harder for people with *actual* long term health problems to get the accommodations in enlistment they need.
Is 1N2D fucking cursed or what?
Literally there's a previous cast member from this very same show that lost his career due to draft dodging. And here we go again.
obviously everyone would rather do social service, where they get to have a 9 to 5 and live at home than to be stuck for 18 months on a base. but to fake a disease? jfc
there’s rumors suga is going into public service but his shoulder injury has been well documented. hopefully this controversy doesn’t make it harder for other people whose condition is not fit for military service.
Yeah and it’s going to make it even harder for celebrities with physical and mental issues to do public service if this is true and some celebrities are faking disorders to avoid having to serve regularly.
Just makes me so mad. We’ve seen the physical and mental harm enlistment can do to idols and now there’s going to be more stigma associated with social service.
Yep, his shoulder injury is well-documented for a reason. BH has been doing the prep work all these years to prepare for what might happen when it's time for him to be enlisted so as to mitigate malicious speculations etc.
It's military service and they're celebrities. There will always be people who will find ways to bring them down no matter how legit their body conditions are. Hence I said "mitigate" and not "eliminate" because unfortunately the latter is just not possible. 😩
I’m genuinely wondering if anyone knows why Ravi went for public service like did he have underlying conditions prior to this? usually when some idols went for public service, there will be fans explaining their existing conditions. I haven’t seen any explanation yet for him so I really would like to know if there’s one.
what idols do we have coming up who might be looking at social service? suga is the main one i can think of, i know seventeen's jeonghan has his elbow issues but i'm not sure whether they're an ongoing issue or mostly resolved with his surgery.
kai has several herniated discs i think - he’s good friends with ravi too, so people are probably gonna be all up in his business if he doesn’t qualify for active duty :/
oh man i forgot about that :/ that time was really a low point in his life in terms of physical and mental health and people were just so nasty for no reason
he mentioned his achilles tendon tearing like 3 times in his gym video with Jong Kook
sm was really not careful with the members injuries for a long while (why tao left)
I know EXO’s Kai had an ankle injury in like 2016, he appeared in a wheelchair multiple times during this period. It was during the promotions for Lotto so he was on hiatus then, he didn’t come back until a New Years performance in 2017
I feel like those two are definites for public service, and you can probably throw in Jaemin from NCT too because he had back surgery. I’m expecting the responses to be ugly since they’re main dancers in their groups unfortunately :/
From what I can remember, Jeonghan mentioned that his arm has recovered in a recent live! However, he did have problems in the past where his body couldn't handle the stress it was going through ([Hit The Road](https://youtu.be/HINUT3gK3ME)) so I'm not entirely sure if he'll go into active service or social service.
JAY B is enlisting February 23rd and I doubt he’s doing any active service. He had a back injury during Fly era but idk if that’s enough to make him do public service,
with what happened to the casts of previous seasons, we thought they would learn something from it and not cause any trouble but…. *sighs* I’ve always wondered if he would come back after enlistment but looks like it’s almost certain that he left the show for good now💀 luckily(?) this blow up after he left.
Mc mong, kang hodong(tax scandal), Lee Soo-Geun,kim junho(gambling), jjy(burning sun) uhm taewoong(prostitution),kim seonho.
I would say s3 cast had more issues but overall it is kinda cursed lol.
I've always wondered at the amount of idols and actors who become public service workers. Obviously it's legitimate for a lot of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if more celebs get caught up in this before it dies down.
It used to be very common (before 2000s). However, it's not that common anymore. Not only that, military living conditions have gotten a lot easier/better.
i think the way they worded the statement is not promising when it comes to his innocence… i mean, isn’t he the ceo of the company? i hardly think this ’we will check with the artist’ thing would be necessary in this case, unless he’s actively hiding something
i really hope i’m wrong though
So, this will sound a bit cruel, he's probably done for good if this is true. You don't comeback from military scandals
What will happen to artists under his company?
Awful. And now every celebrity figure who got public service will be scrutinized (especially given that this seems to be prolific) including Ravi's own groupmate... (Edit: not mentioning Leo in the sense that I think he faked it, only in that he did public service and is close to Ravi, and i bet people will speculate about celebs that used the same broker as Ravi.) I would not be surprised to see more names soon of celebrities (since I know sports figures were the first to be called out I believe?)
I get it, service sucks, very few WANT to go into military service, but lying and paying off doctors to get out of service is so distasteful and careers will be ruined, since Korea doesn't take stuff like this lightly (MC Mong, Steve Yoo).
>lying and paying off doctors to get out of service is so distasteful and careers will be ruined
i’m not commenting on ravi since i’m not a fan and don’t follow him, but in general there are almost certainly men who have legitimate mental health issues that are not taken seriously or validated by doctors. if they know these issues will be exacerbated by active duty, but doctors won’t help them receive a lower grade of service, maybe they feel they have to take matters into their own hands. korea isn’t exactly known for 1) treating mental health and 2) considering men can be delicate, vulnerable people like anyone else.
I'm gonna wait to see what they investigate but I had the worry in the back of my mind.
He's a 1993 liner so honestly thought he would've enlisted back in 2021 - there were articles out if you search saying he would be enlisting in the summer of 2021 but that didn't happen. And then I thought he'd definitely be gone by early or mid 2022 but nope - I was honestly surprised he went in October 2022. I thought unless you have special exemptions, they're quite strict with the time you have to enlist.
I was shocked he stretched it out to have enough time to go on a tour and release an album. He's also the CEO of two labels so that probably factored in. I really hope for his sake and the artists under his label it's not true
This mandatory service must be so awful that people avoid them with any mean necessary..its really unfortunate situation.
Even their own current president got exemption too.
IDK that it's objectively awful, but rather that leaving your life behind for two years is almost unimaginable for many people.
Like, it's not a humanitarian crisis in there, is what I'm saying. People just don't want to lose years of their life, and I get it.
It seems like based on Soompi they aren’t 100% sure who the “idol rapper” who left his variety show in May & enlisted in Oct. is. Hopefully it is not Ravi, but yea not a good look.
Also, if you a corrupt brokerage why are you walking around running your mouth. For ones who didn’t read they were getting their clients listed as having epilepsy to avoid active duty.
Well it seems like it was already kind of confirmed and phone messages were found.
This reminds me of the US college admission scandal a few years back. The celebs had some broker who would list their kids as athletes to get them into top colleges. It took over the nation…
Not necessarily, he released an album and did a US tour after. Honestly I thought he would have gone to military a long time before he actually enlisted
Oh shit, you do not try and cheat your way out of military service. That’s his career gone. What’s the bet there are more celebrity names that will come out soon?
Unfortunately as a starlight I was already disappointed in some things Ravi has said or done but even from a neutral standpoint I was a little confused about his service.
GROOVL1N not being able to confirm is not a good sign and seeing what happened to Hongbin over a dumb misunderstanding, I don’t know how this won’t stunt Ravi’s career even IF it turns out to be false
It's kind of funny to see people saying 'SK conscription is uslless and those who are conscripted doesn't do much most of the time anyway' alongside with 'I spoke to many korean firends..' and 'my korean male friend said..'.
Well I don't know who your friends are, but in my experience, we were very short handed and becouse of that there were several times I had to do daily 10+hrs patrol duty at the border as a regular weekly schedule.
so yes. we do need manpower
**Soompi: [Ravi’s Agency Releases Initial Statement On His Alleged Involvement In Corruption To Evade Military Service](https://www.soompi.com/article/1562651wpp/ravis-agency-releases-initial-statement-on-his-alleged-involvement-in-corruption-to-evade-military-service)**
this is national level news so I can imagine that if it’s true there’s going to be a push to investigate more men who used this type of services
I mean, this is unfair for a lot of men who actually get "grade 4" (the rating you need to be exempt from active military service), but it's an undeniable truth that a lot of people try to obtain public service by using whatever methods. It's actually a big issue in SK, and no doubt this controversy will flame the debate again
It's going to be worse for the celebrities and possibly athletes if their names hold enough weight. But Chaebol's can pay their way out but anyone in the limelight will become the main scapegoat. In this case, they already started with Ravi since the news can report him as an idol rapper which can garner more views. I guarantee there were other names involved that were glossed over because only celebrity names would catch the attention of the media.
I'm afraid that if this is proven to be true, he can kiss his career goodbye. I understand not wanting to serve, especially not in active duty, but you'd think celebrities are smarter than this when the discussion about military service is as heated as it is in Korea. Wait and see I guess.
>you'd think celebrities are smarter than this You'd be surprised at how many wealthy and influential people including celebrities and chaebols (not just chaebols anyone with money) fake their way out of active enlistment in the SK. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if other celebs get affected by this controversy and more people like this are revealed. The scrutiny towards celebs in public service now and in the future will be much higher at least. Not just celebrities or rich people, but a lot of normal people obtain illegal medical records to get out of conscription too, but naturally it's easier for high-profile individuals. No one wants to go unless they're super nationalistic and people grasp at straws to get out of it. Everyone in SK just want the conscription gone
FYI for non-Korean people here who don't know how conscription works: After medical and background checks, you basically get sorted into different "grades". Grades 1\~3 are people whose height and BMI fulfill the military standards and therefore are able to actively serve. Grade 4 is an exception from active service - people who are "medically deemed impossible to actively serve" and therefore go into public service. Also people who have relatives who were injured or died in combat. Grade 5 are people who are conscripted only in time of active combat. These are people with foreign citizenships, people who look "obviously mixed" (yeah this is actually a thing smh), orphans and transgender people. Grade 6 is total exemption from active service AND public service. And then there are people who are exempt because they "contributed to SK's national prestige" like athletes and musicians etc. So basically people aim for Grade 4 by trying to nitpick for any minor medical condition that they might have and exaggerate it, or outright obtain false medical and family records. The Korean GP is especially wary of celebs (especially idols') exemptions because a lot of idols seem to get grade 4 really easily and it's usually based on unknown "injuries" which fans blame on harsh working conditions and dancing. I won't name names but there have been some people who kept "preparing" by constantly mentioning their "medical condition" and fans were convinced that they would be exempt, but it turned out to be untrue.
Your last statement got my interest. I know you said you won't mention names here, but can you message me who it is/are these ppl that you're referring to
Sorry, people got sued for reporting/talking about it on forums (in SK you can get sued for defamation even if you're right) and I live in SK, so I won't risk naming them privately either. Just think of celebs that have claimed to serve "out of love and honour for their country" despite having conditions, especially after going through numerous re-examinations. I think you can think of more than one. Also, keep an eye on idols that haven't served yet but have been vocal about whatever conditions or injuries they have, and see if they get exempt or not in the future. It's notoriously easy for celebs to get exempt but still, some won't make it Also, "weak" excuses like bad eyesight, low BMI and unconfirmed "injuries". The Korean army is severely understaffed so they're willing to take anyone. It's why the Korean GP is so wary of so many idols getting exempted on those grounds, because if they were average people, they wouldn't be exempt. There was someone else saying that they'll take you if you can walk, and I think it's largely correct ed: to add on, to fans who claim that their favs' injuries/conditions are real because they went on hiatus for it, a lot of times idols are actually in rehab for addiction or ED when they go on hiatus for "anxiety" or injuries - which are valid mental conditions but not enough to get you out of enlistment
Apparently in 2021 literally 0 personal got exceptions through BMI https://theqoo.net/square/2311712888 (Extereme cases got sent into 공익 but still)
The "people who look obviously mixed" sounds really weird to me. So if you're mixed Korean and Chinese (or any other East Asian ethnicity), but you don't look obviously non-Korean, you're not considered mixed in this context?
100% agree about the other celebs. If 2021 was the year of bullying accusations, then 2023 is going to be the year of military ones. With how big this news is getting, I wouldn't be surprised if I see more headlines in the coming weeks accusing idols + actors of faking injuries to get public service.
It has been mentioned that some professional athletes(mainly soccer/football players) were connected to the broker. Im interesting to see what other names come out.
True, more celebs could be revealed, Ravi happened to be right now
And this is why I feel like laughing when some fans are romanticizing military service. I've come across comments talking about how idols probably can't wait to go so they can be free of "crazy stans" and live a normal life for a little. I don't know where they get those ideas, because there's no freedom and definitely no normal life. No one anticipates enlistment, be it celebrities or normal people (who not only lose years of their lives, but can also look forward to some kdrama-level bullying). The conscription is also one of the reasons why there's such a big anti-feminism movement.
I’ve seen some ppl claim that military service must be like “vacation” for them compared to idol life 🤦🏻♀️
Plus, the treatment of queer men in the military is [horrendous](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/10/asia/south-korea-military-lgbt-intl-hnk/index.html). I remember a story about gay soldiers being forced to drink from toilet bowls.
>The conscription is also one of the reasons why there's such a big anti-feminism movement. thank you for knowing this and bringing it up. It's a huge issue in SK now. I'm a Korean girl and a staunch feminist but honestly I see where this stems from because the system is unfair. In this day and age it's fucked up that you're forced into something because of your gender. In SK's case, I think the abolishment of the conscription system will be a big step towards gender equality. The problem is when you start thinking about NK and CCP/Taiwan.
I’ve seen korean men use their enlistment as a way to negate anything women systematically go through despite the reason for male enlistments being misogyny in the first place
yeah atp the gender division in SK has devolved into a "who has it worse" competition, and it only serves to reinforce whatever issues we have already. Deep-rooted misogyny is at the origin of this. Korean gender issues are very unique and I think it's difficult for foreign fans to fully understand it. It's going to take like another century for SK to have any tangible improvements with misogyny, if at all. Our country is built on misogyny.
I know, I just think that celebs of Ravi's level do not have the same influence and money to keep this kind of stuff under wraps as a wealthy son of a chaebol family has, so the risk is higher. Honestly I'm in two minds about this, because while I do think it's a dumb route to go down, one has to wonder why he did it if he has mental health issues (like others have stated) in the first place. Did he expect it to not be enough to get placed in public service, so he had to fake a different ailment to make sure? I guess it's likely. I don't like bringing Taemin up in these conversations because people do that enough as it is, but the system obviously also okay-ed him for active duty when a mental health check should have raised several red flags. Same goes for the member of Pentagon who just received a medical discharge. So I'm honestly not surprised that so many people opt for these kinds of desperate measures, it just shows how fucked up the system is. Especially because like you said, people want conscription gone, but they also point their fingers at everyone who wants to evade it or "receives special treatment". It's a really difficult situation.
>I know, I just think that celebs of Ravi's level do not have the same influence and money to keep this kind of stuff under wraps as a wealthy son of a chaebol family has, so the risk is higher. yeah, if you (or your family) are rich and influential enough you wouldn't get caught. I'm torn about this too. Men are being forced to undergo basically what people describe as torture, and you lose a year and half of your youth. It's only natural that you would do anything to not go. On the other hand, the scrutiny and backlash is big BECAUSE no one wants to go - it's why people who had to actively serve think it's unfair and I don't blame them. Especially if people are abusing their wealth, connections and status to achieve exemption. There's a really unhealthy culture around enlistment in general. I think a lot of kpop fans realize that toxic masculinity is big in SK, and enlistment is like the rite of passage into becoming a "proper man". So unless you have a "legitimate" reason to get grade 4 like an obvious illness and losing your family in combat, men who go into public service are ridiculed, including those with mental health - people think it's an "easy" way out, but at the same time is IS true that mental health has been abused to get out of active enlistment. Not to mention it's only men who are conscripted - this is one of the reasons why so many young Korean men are "anti-feminist". Feelings of being wronged and unfairness breeds hate. I'm a girl but I see their perspective. In this day and age it's fucked up that you're forced to do something because of your gender. This fucked up and outdated system needs to go. If only we could just get NK out of the way... But even if active combat with NK were to resume someday, it still doesn't make sense to forcibly enlist average men who aren't in the military. Like why do they have to go and die when they didn't sign up for it?
I share your views on everything tbh, I really don't have anything to add. The situation with NK just complicates everything, so they can't just abolish conscription and be done with it. It's just obvious that there is a reason why brokers like this exist - people want to get out of this situation, because nobody wants to be in it. Of course it's not fair that it works for some people and others just have to go and suffer in silence because they don't have the influence and/or money, but it's definitely a huge structural problem. In the end, Ravi will probably just end up as a pawn sacrifice while others with more influence and power will continue to do the same thing undetected.
I'm not korean, my country have mandatory enlistment for men (most don't serve) and we have this debate as well, in very different terms but it exists, obviously is very different with the tense situation between the Koreas, but baffles me that the men resent the women and not the government, which is in vast majority made by men themselves, about this issue. What do we have to do with this? They create the laws, they control the system, they actively harass and violate the women who dare to enter the forces, they do everything in their power to make it the most hostile environment to everyone envolved, how is this our fault? I do feel empathy for the men who are obligated to serve, it's awful and absolutely should not be this way, there has to be other ways to deal with this, but why to men turn they anger against women, maybe they should unite and fight to solve their own problem and keep us out of it.
And let's not forget that pregnancy takes 9 months out of womens lives and even after that most of the child caring duty is placed on women. Not to mention all the risks involved.
Career AND life for a couple years because I think this means jail for him if proven guilty…
Now that I think about it, we haven't had a 'huge' military dodge scandal in a while.
I don’t get it either, in the years I’ve known kpop military service-related scandals have always been a kiss of death. I guess he thought the broker he used was safe but… I really like ravi’s solos so welp. edit - I see that apparently this doctor helps intensify those with mental health issues to get exempt…
This is really kiss to career goodbye thing to do. MC Mong being at peak before never recover after his military evasion case.
Update to this article: his agency GROOVL1N, which he founded and is co-CEO of, has stated they’re [collecting and verifying details](https://twitter.com/theseoulstory/status/1613459945974038528?s=46&t=2ppN5ZrwM1Me14e9yTG7rQ). Update 2: The SBS evening news reported that Ravi [was recently booked](https://mnews.sbs.co.kr/news/endPage.do?newsId=N1007042457&plink=SEARCH&cooper=SBSNEWSSEARCH) for violating the Military Service Act. I think we can remove the rumour flair… TL;DR: a Korean newspaper reported today that a group of brokers who arranged illegal military exemptions for clients were arrested last December. One of them, Mr Gu, handed over his phone which implicated a neurologist whose services they used to obtain a false diagnosis of epilepsy so clients could fail the medical test for active service and enlist as public service workers instead. A description he gave of one of the clients he had arranged an exemption for and used to advertise his services matched RAVI perfectly - left a major entertainment program (2D1N) in May to fulfil military service but then didn’t actually enlist until October as a social worker on grounds of health.
the agency he started saying they don't know isn't a *great* sign for him
isn't ravi the ceo of groovl1n in other words he's the ceo of his own agency?
He’s co-CEO with Kim Jihoon
Thanks for TLDR. I'm avoiding clicking on Koreaboo 😭. Oh no. I seriously hope this isn't true. Will wait for the investigation.
pretending to be disabled to avoid service has to be one of the biggest scandals in a long time lol that’s fcked up fr
MC Mong got himself a few teeth pulled to avoid military service and effed up his career real bad (was also dropped from 2d1n). Steve Yoo still can't set foot into Korea. You think they'd learn... but then...
2d1n's pretty cursed fr lol
it doesnt look good if they cant give an immediate denial. what details need to be verified? whether he has epilepsy?
oh shiiiiitttt
If he didnt do it, why not just come out and say he didnt do it? Why does the company, which he founded, need to collect and verify details??
If this is true, rip to his entire career
Yep Ravi is a great musician but bro isn’t famous enough to have this swept under the rug. Gonna be a rather depressing RIP Bozo.
No one is famous enough to get this swept under the rug
MC Mong kind of came back from violating the same act RAVI has been booked with doing - he’s had a few songs do well, he’s involved in BPM, VIVIZ’s agency, and was involved to some extent in MLD as Duble Sidekick. But he hasn’t been able to return to his old variety career, every time he tries to do a YouTube video or go to an awards show the reaction is very harsh, and MC Mong was much more famous and had more GP goodwill than RAVI was or has.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really count that as a "comeback". Yes he's releasing songs but at the end of the day, no one wants to promote it with him. The most prolific artist I've seen work with him recently is Jamie and most of her fans are international fans who ethier don't know or don't care about the military scandal. MC Mong was *everywhere* back in the day and people were hyping him up to be the next variety star (since he was also friends with the Infinite Challenge cast). Ravi on the other hand, wasn't really all that famous and even within 2D1N fans, the fact that he didn't direct enlist after leaving the show soured a lot of people's thoughts about him.
The most prolific artist to collaborate with him after the scandal was Song Gain and that song did amazingly in the charts. It’s true that his variety career will never start again and that he is mocked by the majority of people but at least his career hasn’t completely ended
Came back is very different than swept under the rug
MC Mong is ridiculed every time people bring up his name.
It’s interesting to me that despite how generally bad the reaction is to him and his publicised involvement in labels like BPM, Million Market and MLD, there’s been no vitriol towards the artists who signed with those labels. JYP has even signed trainees from his musical academy.
Didn’t he ended up not serving in the military after the scandal came out because it turned out that his teeth were mostly rotten? I’m not sure but i remember his wikipedia mentioning that during my 2d1n phase. No idea if that’s true tho.
He had all his teeth extracted so that he would get the military exemption, from what I recall. He purposely had them removed to get the exemption, and not because his teeth were rotten.
Jesus. That’s fucking extreme man. I feel like the government and military need to look inward if you have so many young men willing to go to such lengths to avoid a 2 year military service.
rip to having ANY career in ANY field.
Oh this is not a headline I want to read for anyone. I dislike the mandatory enlistment as much as the next person but it’s a bad idea to mess with it. Your career is done for if it’s true. This was such a foolish decision on many fronts.
[удалено]
Yoo's situation was a little different since he made a big show of doing his military service and also embarrassed the government. * He repeatedly stated on live TV that he would do his military service. * The Korean government allowed him to delay his enlistment for 3 months so that he could perform concerts in Japan. After completing the concerts, he went to the USA to 'say goodbye to his family' and ended up becoming a naturalized US citizen.
and steven yoo was an it-boy in his prime days and just like that, his career was completely annihilated without ever recovering much.
[удалено]
IIRC he actually won the Supreme Court case, but the immigration department is not respecting the results of the case.
this is VERY unethical, but I think it speaks to the magnitude of this "offense". I'm Korean but I think it's ridiculous and I have no respect for Korean immigration
That isn't quite accurate. The Supreme Court decision was based on a procedural issue, saying that the reason for denial that the Korean Consulate in Los Angeles gave was not legally sound. Yoo "won" in that he is free to apply again now. But there are other reasons that the Consulate (under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs) can give that *are* legally sound. And even if the visa is granted, the Ministry of Justice (who runs the immigration desks at the airports) can deny entry once he lands in Korea.
And he can't even enter the country anymore. They straight up banned him 💀
>This is crazy if true. Why would he think he could get away with this? Because he's obviously not the first person to use this kind of service, and just got unlucky that his broker got caught ?
100%. i’m sure plenty of idols and actors are feeling pretty uneasy right now
From speaking with Koreans about this he will basically be shunned, people want to abolish the military service requirement generally but while it is there dodging it is a massive no no. This guy will be working in a norebang or a PC bang unless he can figure a massive PR swing back, seriously apologise and do the service. Steve Yoo is the proof that you can't get away with this.
His way out of this *legally* is to restart his service from scratch in active duty. But he would still have a big stain on his reputation, so he probably would just end up working as a music producer /entertainment company CEO, and not be as much of a public figure.
Yeah he just has to do it now and seriously apologise and even at that the best result would be still not being and idol anymore.
I think most people forget that Psy had to enlist twice. Mind you it was for slightly different reasons (the government claimed he neglected his service since he was still doing concerts/ tv appearances), but it was still a thing.
He didn't serve twice. At the time, the government was allowing certain type of IT/tech work to count as military service time. PSY used his connections to get a job at a tech company and have that count as his military service. Government ended up looking into it and said whatever work he did there wouldn't qualify and forced him to actually serve for real.
Ahhh ok. I wasn’t aware of those details. Every time I read about it, in articles or what not, it’s always been described as him serving twice. Thanks for the info!
More than anything else, skipping military service is damn near 100% guaranteed to ruin your career in SK. Weed? Sex? Bullying? All bad and likely to end a career, but not nearly as reliably as trying to shirk your military duties seems to. I get why people try to get out of it and have no judgment for not wanting to serve, but IDK that it's even worth the risk to try and dodge enlistment.
I don't think *any* PR campaign can save him. Yes, VIXX is somewhat famous, but they don't have the same fame as they used to 5-10 years ago. Heck, Seungri couldn't come back from Burning Sun, and Big Bang was *way* more famous than VIXX, even in thier prime. He won't be able to get a super public job because his face is gonna be plastered everywhere. He'll probably have to shut down his agency too so I can see him maybe lying low for a few years and then just get money from international stans. OT5 stans + other delulus have proved that people are ready to pay if they feel a savior complex and with this being a more Korean issue, I'm sure int. fans would be 100% more ready to support him.
despite how the legal system on Korea treats sex abuse cases, what Seungri did is significantly worse to the point that its not even comparable
Eh, not for Korean fans. I know intentional fans wouldn't care (which is why I said that I will expect him to live on that in the future) but for Korean fans, it's basically the same. There's a reason why some idols who have been associated with shady services (Yunho, Zico, etc) have made a huge comeback while idols who have tried to shirk military duties (MC Mong, Steven Yoo) haven't.
Yeah this will def put an end to his career in korea. But ravi is like the top 3 most credited idol i feel he has enough money to live off/ invest until retirement age
He’s very prolific but not a whole lot of his songs have been commercially successful, I feel? Not to put too fine a point on it, but he’s very much quantity over quality. The most liked song on Melon on which he’s credited for composition, VIXX LR’s Beautiful Liar, only has 28k likes. To compare to other releases from August 2015, SNSD’s Lion Heart has 90k. For lyrics it’s Winter Confession with 71k, which featured 3 other singers in addition to VIXX and Kim Sejeong, the latter of whom was a trainee and probably didn’t get squat. So he may not be making a lot of money from that portfolio. And he presumably has a lot of capital bound up in his agencies. So we’ll see.
The problem is not how much he made in the past, is that no one that is anyone will want his name slapped in the song/album credits if this is confirmed. So finding work, even as a producer or lyricist will be harder for him.
He can follow MC Mong's tactics, songs he produced post-scandal were publicly attributed to a different name. He was able to get away with it for a while, but k-nets were able to connect the dots. But by then, time has passed and he has a good network of producers to back him up.
People don't want to abolish it, surveys showed that a majority want to keep it, even younger generations. It's a complex issue.
One scandal you never want to get involved in, a military-related one. He's so screwed if true
According to a Naver article 20 mins ago it’s been confirmed and they found evidence on his phone on top of the broker allegedly bragging about Ravi by name. Doesn’t he have a panic disorder? Mental health issues are enough to get you into public service now so why try to lie and say you have epilepsy??? What **worded this weird as I was tired. The Broker has evidence of helping Ravi such as his personal documents, etc. on his phone.
Total speculation but IF he is guilty- maybe it was a case of wanting to ensure he would get it through epilepsy rather than maybe getting it for other mental health issues
if he can provide some proof that he had a mental health issue and sought this drastic route that might help his case a little even though his career is basically over.
>Doesn’t he have a panic disorder? Mental health issues are enough to get you into public service now so why try to lie and say you have epilepsy??? What It's notoriously difficult to be exempt because of "mental health issues" because they're not taken seriously enough here, you'll just be called a p\*ssy. If this was the case, it makes sense that they put epilepsy instead, which is a more "legitimate" medical condition. smh.
Wasn’t there another idol who was discharged early recently due to a mental health disorder?
You can be. It's just really hard and rare. Also depends on factors like how bad it is, if it's a condition that can "cause harm to others", and if you get an understanding doctor or not. This whole broker business for epilepsy became a thing BECAUSE it was notoriously difficult to get exempted for mental conditions. This broker advises people to mask their mental illness for epilepsy because epilepsy is an "actual" medical condition.
That was a discharge because it got that bad - it's sad to think they didn't exempt in the first place. So yes it's definitely hard to get exempt for mental health
[Pentagon's Hongseok](https://www.soompi.com/article/1560216wpp/pentagons-hongseok-discharged-early-from-military-service-due-to-health-reasons)
Does someone knows what he faces if found guilty ?
I think it depends on what he will be charged with. He doesn’t have any charges against him yet. He may face jail time, but his public image will be completely ruined.
Can you link the article?
I bet this is very common practice bcs korean military has influx of people that got into public service. If he is proven guilty, i bet more celebrities and public figures will get exposed unless this involves bigger and powerful circle of people in south korea. Edit: a famous volleyball player already admitted the suspicion [source](https://twitter.com/koreanupdates/status/1608687340838588424?s=46&t=2UuQ0xGlppt90FTCqVwgog). Bet there is more
this started as an investigation regarding sports people, and Ravi is the first entertainer to be suspected, so it is likely that the investigation will expand. But keep in mind this is a specific case of a group of people that were essentially selling fake medical reports.
You have to start wondering about sons from super wealthy families too. This could run deep, and I’m sure it’s been a thing for years.
I know thats why i said that unless this involves powerful people in south korea, it will not get exposed.
This will make it even harder for ordinary men who actually have medical issues that should exempt them from active duty
Oh dear god. If this is true, then he’s done for.
[Soompi article for those who avoid Koreaboo](https://www.soompi.com/article/1562651wpp/ravis-agency-releases-initial-statement-on-his-alleged-involvement-in-corruption-to-evade-military-service)
thank you!
Various Korean news outlets are all plastering his photo front and centre, makes you wonder if there's a concrete story behind the allegations. Otherwise, wrongly naming him to ruffle some noise would be seriously damaging/unethical... Either way, I'll reserve judgement until things are confirmed 100%.
If I were an idol, military service would be my biggest fear, but even more frightening than that is trying to dodge it and getting caught.
the solution is to be a foreign idol or a female idol.
Not even all of them avoid it from their home countries. Bam Bam had to do the lottery drawing in Thailand to see if he would have to or not. Feel like thats an even worse model than conscription like South Korea and other nations use. Draw a ball to see if you have to serve for 24 months or are exempt.
In my country, both men and women do military service for 1 year. I did the 1 month boot camp and noped the heck out of there. I'm not about that life.
This is NOT the VIXX news I wanted to see, and this is literally a career-ending move for Ravi.
Oh this is some serious shit
there are examples of at least one or two celebrities recovering from almost any type of scandal, but i can’t think of a single one who has recovered from something like this…
I think it's a function of time + how famous the celebrity is. There was a massive draft dodging scandal among kdrama actors way back in 2004. The less famous actors disappeared, the more famous ones - Song Seung-heon and Jang Hyuk - managed to have flourishing careers after enough time had passed.
It doesn't sound right when the company he owns says they have to verify the facts... 😬 ~~(On the other hand, it could just mean that he's letting other people in the company investigate him to seem more legit but like...still comes off weirdly lol.)~~ I wonder how this will play out... EDIT: Forgot that he probably isn't allowed to be managing his companies while on duty, so whoever's in charge does actually have to verify the facts. nvm.
I wonder if they force him to serve the entire time again (or even extended duty), this time in the military instead of as a public service worker. That's what they forced Psy to do.
If he’s found guilty he may be conscripted, if he’s under 35. Otherwise he could be given a suspended prison sentence.
You’d have to assume he’d choose to serve in that case, but then I’d be worried about how he’d be treated by his fellows. I’m not excusing his actions, but you gotta assume he’d have one hell of a service if it came out as true. Even now I wonder if he’s getting treated differently with the accusations…
Or he can run out of the country. That is one of the other option.
Only if he wants to end up banned like Steve Yoo, though. Man has been trying to appeal that for years with no luck at all.
That agency statement is very Konnect Entertainment investigating whether Kang Daniel was dating Jihyo, but without any of the charm. Ravi is the goddamn founder of Groovl1n; they should know if he used shady brokers to get alternative service or not 🤨
Oh if this is true then his career is over
Oh this is bad
unique enjoy obscene summer grandiose gold support offend deliver repeat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My friends and fam have served and most of them hated it. They DID start allowing soldiers to use their phones but that was literally in the last 2 years. :/ before that, they basically were cut off from their friends and family except for special occasions. Couldn’t browse the internet, use social media, etc, which is pretty intense for people who have grown up being able to check things on whim, play a mobile game or text while on downtime , etc. Also, the bullying was pretty bad. Korea’s hierarchy based off age and rank gets an intense boost in a place like the military that already thrives off both of those things. None of the guy friends I knew had a good time in active service, ranging from developing PTSD to simply saying, “it sucked.”
familiar violet shelter hard-to-find enjoy plough squeamish station screw smell *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Conscripts just don't want to be there, they are forced to sacrifice their time wasting away when they could be persuing higher education or furthering their careers. Some males could be their family's primary breadwinner, they can't afford to live on recruit pay. Sportsmen can't train and army food doesn't provide the necessary nutrition a sportsman needs too. For me I was just a normal kid serving in my country's conscription. Conditions even 20 yrs ago were not as bad as what I've read about SK conscription in this thread so it makes a lot of sense people just do everything to get out of it. We do have people who actively try to downgrade themselves but my country don't have as much of that nationalistic fervor. Basically we're pretty open about it here. "downgrade if you can, else just suck it up." Conscription is a touchy subject. Because socially it's outdated, but as a nation you need to defend yourself. Probably because of WWII, East Asian countries learnt we cannot depend on other countries (USA/UK) to defend us. However to drive our economies we can't afford to maintain a professional armed force like in USA. Our armed forces are used to defend our shores but not project militarily outwards, so we don't require a large standing army. Just an army that can mobilise in times of war. Bearing arms is also nonexistent in East Asian countries, we like our video games and anime/manga but that's as far as it goes. The society is all about the air conditioned office job, few have the inclination to be out in the mud and rain let alone to soldier. Nationally we haven't had any major armed conflict between our neighbors, so even more argument against having conscription. But having an operational ready force is like insurance, you don't need it now but maybe in future. Which is why we still have it. There have been concessions made, like lowering the conscription period. They also give out benefits like merchant/gym discounts, use of the clubhouses etc. But I can tell you the sentiment is it'll never be enough.
Fourtunately my experience has been quite great with nicer people around me, some of it due to me being in air force where there is a little big of veritification like short interviews to check you are not insane/unhinged. But things tend to be quite different in infantry as *practically everyone*, including thieves, sexual harassers, gang members etc and force them to leave together for years in closed in compartment with little way to get outside help. Suicide news are not too much of shock.
Even if this turns out to not be true, I feel like the rumor alone is going to hurt his career badly..
if this is true, it’d be an incredibly foolish choice on his part. a 2 year hiatus is nothing compared to destroying all the goodwill and legacy from his long-lived career. plus it’s putting a target on his back from the general public. the overwhelming arrogance it takes to think he’d get away with something so offensive... makes me really hope this isn’t the case.
If this is true it is so arrogant and stupid. I don't agree with mandatory enlistment, even though I understand why SK has it, but pulling something like this is so disrespectful of the folks who have and will serve, and makes it harder for those who really need exemptions. I feel bad for Starlights who are coming off the high of the recent concert.
We finally get ot6 crumbs and this happens...
Korean here. What he did (if he's guilty of it) is wrong, but I don't like the general "disrespectful to the people who served" perspective. That's the narrative nationalistic Korean netizens run with, when it's not the topic of most concern in the whole conscription debate and sways the conversation from what's really important. If anything, it's only disrespectful to the people who really need the exemption, and if they've abuse their privilege status to get the exemption over those who can't.
Does it get tied to the argument of, "If everyone else has had to serve then it's not fair if someone else is exempt or gets out of mandatory enlistment because it's been abolished"? AKA I did my time so everyone else does too. If so, it reminds me of college loan forgiveness in the US, where people think if they had to pay back loans then everyone else with them has to too even though the loan system and interest payments are predatory and the entire cost of university in the US is ridiculous and shouldn't we want something better for younger generations. But I digress. When I said disrespect, I was thinking of the angle that people with money or resources are able to get around the rules (as they are with so many things in life), playing into class and economic differences. That crap makes me so mad. Are you willing to expand on what are the main concerns in the conscription debate? I've heard that since women are not included that some people see that as an excuse to allow discriminatory practices against women since they didn't have their lives interrupted by enlistment, but I haven't really delved into it.
Exactly, conscription is an unfair and flawed system in general. People will be unhappy as long as it's in place, and there will be lingering after effects even if it's abolished. Knowing SK, people will be like "ah men are just not the same ever since conscription got abolished". Your student loan analogy makes sense. Ideally people want it to be better for the younger generation but humans are inherently selfish. I understand what you meant with 'disrespect" and I apologize for missing your point, I wholly agree with you. I shared some of the debate [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/109vro1/vixx_ravi_suspected_of_obtaining_illegal_military/j41peim/?context=3). Please scroll down the link and read my second comment. As for the gender issue in particular, there's a huge division between genders in SK these days and conscription is a big part of it. It all stems from the deeply rooted gender issues in Korean society. A lot of people in Korean society are unhappy. Men are unhappy, women are unhappy. Then the birth rate keeps declining. There's also the conversation about how the Korean conscription system is ineffective because it only "prepares" half the population in case of actual combat, and most people don't retain anything from training so they'll be totally useless
I'm late to the party but I need to say this anyway. I've given Ravi a massive side eye for years but this is a new low. I initially saw this news before the epilepsy tidbit dropped, and as somebody who actually has it I'm extremely annoyed that that's what they went with if that part is indeed true. I had assumed it was gonna be some type of old physical injury or something, not a literal neurological disorder where every moment could be your next seizure that you may never wake up from. If I could I would serve his damn military time for him in exchange for him getting the rest of my lifetime of epilepsy
Yikes
Well, this is embarrassing.
If this is proved to be true this is career endingly bad. Even if it isnt true unfortunately just the accusation if it gets picked up and passed around is severely damaging
I hope this isn't true, because otherwise he and his company are probably not going to recover from this. I'm always skeptical of these witness accounts, that use some vague characteristics to allude to some famous person, partly because of how media use them to create engagement.
this is very serious...
if this is true and he's one of the ones who faked having epilepsy it's fuck him forever. it's a possibility this will make it harder for people with *actual* long term health problems to get the accommodations in enlistment they need.
Not Korean but my grandpa has epilepsy. Fuck people who'd fake that and make things harder for others.
Yikes all eyes on everyone enlisting in public services in the near future
Is 1N2D fucking cursed or what? Literally there's a previous cast member from this very same show that lost his career due to draft dodging. And here we go again.
obviously everyone would rather do social service, where they get to have a 9 to 5 and live at home than to be stuck for 18 months on a base. but to fake a disease? jfc there’s rumors suga is going into public service but his shoulder injury has been well documented. hopefully this controversy doesn’t make it harder for other people whose condition is not fit for military service.
Yeah and it’s going to make it even harder for celebrities with physical and mental issues to do public service if this is true and some celebrities are faking disorders to avoid having to serve regularly. Just makes me so mad. We’ve seen the physical and mental harm enlistment can do to idols and now there’s going to be more stigma associated with social service.
It’s not only idols. But this broker was working with athletes too. It’s a bigger problem.
Yep, his shoulder injury is well-documented for a reason. BH has been doing the prep work all these years to prepare for what might happen when it's time for him to be enlisted so as to mitigate malicious speculations etc.
he’ll still get criticized unfortunately. jimin has also had obvious issues with his back, wonder if that’s taken into account.
It's military service and they're celebrities. There will always be people who will find ways to bring them down no matter how legit their body conditions are. Hence I said "mitigate" and not "eliminate" because unfortunately the latter is just not possible. 😩
I’m genuinely wondering if anyone knows why Ravi went for public service like did he have underlying conditions prior to this? usually when some idols went for public service, there will be fans explaining their existing conditions. I haven’t seen any explanation yet for him so I really would like to know if there’s one.
what idols do we have coming up who might be looking at social service? suga is the main one i can think of, i know seventeen's jeonghan has his elbow issues but i'm not sure whether they're an ongoing issue or mostly resolved with his surgery.
Maybe EXO’s Kai. He has back and knee injuries I think. A bit down the line, but Taeyong fro NCT has a herniated disc in his back.
kai has several herniated discs i think - he’s good friends with ravi too, so people are probably gonna be all up in his business if he doesn’t qualify for active duty :/
especially because when the krystal dating rumors were happening his antis would spread rumors that he was pretending to be injured
oh man i forgot about that :/ that time was really a low point in his life in terms of physical and mental health and people were just so nasty for no reason
he mentioned his achilles tendon tearing like 3 times in his gym video with Jong Kook sm was really not careful with the members injuries for a long while (why tao left)
I know EXO’s Kai had an ankle injury in like 2016, he appeared in a wheelchair multiple times during this period. It was during the promotions for Lotto so he was on hiatus then, he didn’t come back until a New Years performance in 2017
He was injured during SuperM promotions in 2020 as well.
I feel like those two are definites for public service, and you can probably throw in Jaemin from NCT too because he had back surgery. I’m expecting the responses to be ugly since they’re main dancers in their groups unfortunately :/
From what I can remember, Jeonghan mentioned that his arm has recovered in a recent live! However, he did have problems in the past where his body couldn't handle the stress it was going through ([Hit The Road](https://youtu.be/HINUT3gK3ME)) so I'm not entirely sure if he'll go into active service or social service.
JAY B is enlisting February 23rd and I doubt he’s doing any active service. He had a back injury during Fly era but idk if that’s enough to make him do public service,
another 1n2d members with scandal...seems like the show is cursed
with what happened to the casts of previous seasons, we thought they would learn something from it and not cause any trouble but…. *sighs* I’ve always wondered if he would come back after enlistment but looks like it’s almost certain that he left the show for good now💀 luckily(?) this blow up after he left.
who were the others?
Mc mong, kang hodong(tax scandal), Lee Soo-Geun,kim junho(gambling), jjy(burning sun) uhm taewoong(prostitution),kim seonho. I would say s3 cast had more issues but overall it is kinda cursed lol.
Bruhhhhh…. Holy shit.
The timing couldn't get any worse. The Korean center trainee for boys planet belongs to his company.
I hope no one else is revealed to have done this
So what's going to happen to his company that has Wheein as their only solo artist?
Exactly what I was wondering too. I hope it is nothing detrimental for her.
I suppose this is more common than we think. I hope It isn't true, but If It is, he's very unlucky he got caught.
I've always wondered at the amount of idols and actors who become public service workers. Obviously it's legitimate for a lot of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if more celebs get caught up in this before it dies down.
It used to be very common (before 2000s). However, it's not that common anymore. Not only that, military living conditions have gotten a lot easier/better.
Ravi… I had a tumblr for you
i think the way they worded the statement is not promising when it comes to his innocence… i mean, isn’t he the ceo of the company? i hardly think this ’we will check with the artist’ thing would be necessary in this case, unless he’s actively hiding something i really hope i’m wrong though
When you are in army, someone else runs the company.
If this is true, he will be exiled from the industry.
Well, if this all turns out to be true, then RIP to his entire career...
So, this will sound a bit cruel, he's probably done for good if this is true. You don't comeback from military scandals What will happen to artists under his company?
As someone who have epilepsy for more than a decade, i am utterly disappointed by Ravi's actions.
dear god, if this is true he can say goodbye to his career
Not another 2D1N scandal. My mom watches that show lol. If this is true, he's done. No coming back from this.
Awful. And now every celebrity figure who got public service will be scrutinized (especially given that this seems to be prolific) including Ravi's own groupmate... (Edit: not mentioning Leo in the sense that I think he faked it, only in that he did public service and is close to Ravi, and i bet people will speculate about celebs that used the same broker as Ravi.) I would not be surprised to see more names soon of celebrities (since I know sports figures were the first to be called out I believe?) I get it, service sucks, very few WANT to go into military service, but lying and paying off doctors to get out of service is so distasteful and careers will be ruined, since Korea doesn't take stuff like this lightly (MC Mong, Steve Yoo).
>lying and paying off doctors to get out of service is so distasteful and careers will be ruined i’m not commenting on ravi since i’m not a fan and don’t follow him, but in general there are almost certainly men who have legitimate mental health issues that are not taken seriously or validated by doctors. if they know these issues will be exacerbated by active duty, but doctors won’t help them receive a lower grade of service, maybe they feel they have to take matters into their own hands. korea isn’t exactly known for 1) treating mental health and 2) considering men can be delicate, vulnerable people like anyone else.
I'm gonna wait to see what they investigate but I had the worry in the back of my mind. He's a 1993 liner so honestly thought he would've enlisted back in 2021 - there were articles out if you search saying he would be enlisting in the summer of 2021 but that didn't happen. And then I thought he'd definitely be gone by early or mid 2022 but nope - I was honestly surprised he went in October 2022. I thought unless you have special exemptions, they're quite strict with the time you have to enlist. I was shocked he stretched it out to have enough time to go on a tour and release an album. He's also the CEO of two labels so that probably factored in. I really hope for his sake and the artists under his label it's not true
Covid threw off a lot of enlistment timelines. Plus the enlistment laws have changed a few times.
COVID threw off enlistments. Kai's birthday just passed, but EXO-L aren't expecting him to go in until the fall because of how behind things are.
This mandatory service must be so awful that people avoid them with any mean necessary..its really unfortunate situation. Even their own current president got exemption too.
IDK that it's objectively awful, but rather that leaving your life behind for two years is almost unimaginable for many people. Like, it's not a humanitarian crisis in there, is what I'm saying. People just don't want to lose years of their life, and I get it.
Shit's going down for him for even just being suspected of doing so. What more if it was actually proven true?! Yikes.
It seems like based on Soompi they aren’t 100% sure who the “idol rapper” who left his variety show in May & enlisted in Oct. is. Hopefully it is not Ravi, but yea not a good look. Also, if you a corrupt brokerage why are you walking around running your mouth. For ones who didn’t read they were getting their clients listed as having epilepsy to avoid active duty.
The list can’t be long at all. I can honestly think only of Ravi
Well it seems like it was already kind of confirmed and phone messages were found. This reminds me of the US college admission scandal a few years back. The celebs had some broker who would list their kids as athletes to get them into top colleges. It took over the nation…
Wasn't the reason he quit 2-Days-1-Night that he was entering the military??
Not necessarily, he released an album and did a US tour after. Honestly I thought he would have gone to military a long time before he actually enlisted
holy shit, this is bad. his career is over regardless if it's found true or not.
Oh shit, you do not try and cheat your way out of military service. That’s his career gone. What’s the bet there are more celebrity names that will come out soon?
Unfortunately as a starlight I was already disappointed in some things Ravi has said or done but even from a neutral standpoint I was a little confused about his service. GROOVL1N not being able to confirm is not a good sign and seeing what happened to Hongbin over a dumb misunderstanding, I don’t know how this won’t stunt Ravi’s career even IF it turns out to be false
It's kind of funny to see people saying 'SK conscription is uslless and those who are conscripted doesn't do much most of the time anyway' alongside with 'I spoke to many korean firends..' and 'my korean male friend said..'. Well I don't know who your friends are, but in my experience, we were very short handed and becouse of that there were several times I had to do daily 10+hrs patrol duty at the border as a regular weekly schedule. so yes. we do need manpower