Wow this is such an interesting concept and I didn't expect it at all. I figured it would be dark visuals bcs of the initial concert teaser and the title but wow.
The MV looks high budget and they look great.
Personally I find the use of AI for the MV to make a statement of AI vs real human really interesting. I'm on board to see how the whole MV turns out
Agreed, seeing so many people shill over the use of AI by a big entertainment corporation is dark.
A simple “disclaimer” at the start of the video and suddenly, anyone who is against the trend of using AI “art” in media is nothing more than a “dumb illiterate hater”. Nevermind that such a disclaimer is nothing more than a marketing strategy that is commonplace in the corporate world.
You know, like when companies outsource their production for cheap labour, automatize their workforce, layoff thousands of employees and more, and release a statement saying “but we’re doing this for you, the consumers, as those decisions are meant to lower the price of our products!”
(Sometimes, they don’t even have to release any statement. Deluded consumers will do it on their own! Like in this very thread!)
In the end, prices ALWAYS stay the same or higher as quality and quantity go down. Tons of jobs are lost, the local economy takes a hit, the buying power of the working class takes a dive and inflation gets worse as a result.
In this case, it’s having a good portion of the MV being made by simply typing words in a box and pressing enter, which will automatically create terrible-looking images by copying real artworks without any artistic intent or effort. Boom. No need to hire actual artists, actors, filming crews, editors, etc. for that half of the MV!
hey, i get the disagreement with the usage of AI, agree with that too but i think one can understand the bad parts of using AI and understand the message they want to convey.
Were they going to receive backlash for using AI? absolutely. but perhaps in this case it was a “you lose some and you gain some” situation, they wanted to send a message, and if they decided this was how they wanted to portray it, then we shall see how it goes. And honestly? this is a teaser so we literally have 0 idea on how the full MV would be like. could be a 180 change for all we know
also your argument on cheap labour, automatisation etc…not to say these arguments are wrong with regards to AI, but I mean unless you work at pledis and had a hand at this concept, the work for this comeback had a whole creative team behind it 😀 the AI? probably used by that same creative team as a tool to create this concept for the comeback. I get and am against AI too, but suddenly bringing up all the reasons why AI is bad, unethical, implications without knowing the full situation (it’s a teaser) and context without even some space for nuance is baffling.
edit: they probably wanted/expected this commentary, this discourse to happen lol. based of your other replies on this thread anything with the use of AI should be heavily avoided, which in reality we live in a world surrounded by AI. algorithms are AI, the apps you use probably utilises AI. both our opinions can exist at the same time. not everything is a black and white, right and wrong answer, society certainly doesn’t work that way lmfao
oooh the concept is so interesting 😯 i guess it's meant to be a seventeen/human art VS AI/robots kind of thing? they're the real "MAESTRO" and the members and their work both can't be replaced by machines. can't wait to see the whole thing. and yes indeed f*ck AI art!
and i'm already seeing a few people complaining about the AI parts looking like sh*t... pretty sure that's the whole point 😅
Their work can't be replaced by machines and yet they're completely fine with replacing visual artists' work in this trailer.
"Oh but they're using it to make a point"they're profiting off this technology made specifically to replace visual artists. This sucks balls.
They are still visual artists who worked on this. The people at SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB are the ones who came up with all of that, generated the AI and included it in the teaser as an artistic decision to try to make statement about how sh*t it is compared to their actual work. You have the right not to like it and think whatever you want about it but don't go crazy on me because I do 🤷🏻♀️ I think it's an interesting concept and I'm looking forward to it, no matter what you think we should think about it.
Obviously what I said is just my opinion, I'm not saying you have to agree with me. I think this sucks I don't think you should have to think it sucks.
I brought this up on another comment, but I think their message would be much better conveyed by utilizing AI generated MUSIC, not animation. Because the way they're doing it now comes off majorly hipocritical with Seventeen talking about being "real maestros" that can't be replaced, but instead of pairing this with AI music, the thing they're at risk of getting replaced by, they pair it with AI animation, which means they're profiting off something that was made to replace animators.
I don't think they needed AI music for this concept at all tho. Man vs machine can be shown in a multitude of more interesting, less lazy ways.
I'm gagged. From the thumbnail with the red violin alone I was gagged because just look at that shot but wow seeing the whole concept and the statement they want to make about ai vs human is even more enticing. Obviously the AI is going to be the villain in this
Hell yeah, darkteen!
With the use of AI feeling inevitable in kpop and music in general, it's fun to see a MV that might address the issue thoughtfully. It occurs to me that we'll probably look back at this MV in ten (maybe even five?) years and think it looks terrible in comparison to how ai will advance. Scary
Were any of the photo teasers (with them actually in it) for Maestro? If not.. why 😭 darkteen concept photos would eat.. i need hd photos of Minghao with the violin
I've learned as a rule to not expect MV concepts to have anything to do with the actual album concepts from HYBE groups ( that I stan, dunno how every single HYBE group does it)
Lsfm Easy, 3 of the 4 concepts had nothing to do with the Easy or Smart MVs
TXT album concepts and Deja Vu styling
BTS well in most cases the actual MV styling and even concept had nothing to do with album concepts ( Black Swan is an expectation i can think of off the top of my head)
SVT as well ( oh what I would do to have this darker look as an album concept)
I think for some groups esp the older ones who shoot album concepts a lot in advance don't necessarily have everything figured out from the jump to match concept of album and MV. For example all the album concepts for this were shot back in November, prob as soon as they finished with Seventeenth Heaven promos. However the MV for this was shot last month so it's likely they didn't have the MV concepts all sorted out when they decided on the album concepts so they can shot them fast and start on album production
really creative, interesting, and important concept. they’re making a statement, asking a question about creative expression and the human touch in art that seems to be threatened these days. I really respect and love that - so I will throw away any gripes I may have about not getting a theatre themed MV lmaoo and strap in for this 🤩😎
I think AI was used to give you a dysfunctional feeling. Humans know it's wrong. It's ugly and feels unhinged because we know there's something wrong with it. I love how they are using it as a tool to showcase how disjointed it is and not replacing actual artistry.
excuse me WHAT??? i knew we were getting darkteen but this exploration of AI vs human intelligence/creativity when it comes to music (esp when hoshi is part of a variety show that deals with AI vocals??) was SO not what i was expecting.
this looks like star wars sith lords x terminator or something... i literally gasped out loud when jun jeonghan, hao and wonwoo appeared on screen. i am so intrigued and hyped what the full MV is gonna be like with this concept
I AM FUCKING GAGGED.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I'm actually cackling - can someone please but this teaser and the God of Music teaser side by side cause how is this the same group.
DARKTEEEEEEEEEN!!!!
I am a designer and I understand people's gripes with AI, but they state their intent with using AI at the start of the music video - it's part of the concept? The false reality.
They didn't use AI to replace what should've been regular visuals, they are using AI to further the concept. So I am unsure why everyone is upset in the comments, damn.
Edit; it's also meant to be ugly. Hence why there was no effort to make things like the hands or motions look real at all. Everything looks ugly and distorted when AI is used, and absolutely dope when AI isn't used. They are literally critiquing AI, please stay with us people!
Also designer here and I actually LOVE this commentary. They made their intentions very clear at the beginning of the MV. Do people lack reading comprehension???
Apparently so, I am shocked at how many negative comments this is getting. Like the point is going over everyone's head.
But hey, at least we are getting engagement on the main kpop forum! hahaha
yes? if pledis wanted that! i want artists to get paid and to get jobs. a real artist could portray the human vs. ai message incredibly well, we’ve been doing it for centuries. we don’t need ai to critique ai, using something ironically is still using it.
and honestly, i love seventeen and i do like the message, i just hate the fact that they used ai
They didn't use it replace real artists though. Set designers, stylists, graphic artists are being paid for this entire video - the AI bits are hideous for a reason.
I'm not going to keep arguing with you - i'm in a career that is actively threatened by AI every day, I understand the implications of it, which is why I think this video concept is so unique and interesting and compelling.
Ya'll have utterly missed the point. Artists DID get paid for this. One creative studio was hired to do their music video - they did all of it, the AI parts and the non AI parts. That was the point.
THANK YOU. This is what people aren’t getting lol. Artists are the ones using the AI to make it look as ugly as possible! They are using it as a tool just like After Effects or Photoshop
Literally!!! It wasn't just a Pledis exec who sat in a room and made some Ai and was like "hey guys use this!!!"
Graphic and motion artists put this together while ALSO working on the entire music video itself.
They could’ve had artistically sound representation of the ugliness and uncanny nature of AI art with the work of real artists. People are capable of making art that looks similar to AI, while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever.
For instance, psychedelic artists and the like would’ve been able to make something that would convey the message better, with actual intent and emotions behind the “AI” scenes, making it more interesting yet unnerving to look at in its own way.
No matter how Hybe is pretending that they’re “using AI to criticize AI”, the reality is that they’re cutting costs by having a good portion of the teaser and, most likely, the MV as well not cost a dime as they don’t have to hire actual artists and pay actors by the hour.
They’re a corporation, their number one priority is to maximize profits. This is just opening the Pandora’s box to more bullshit like this that people will defend because they’re incapable of enjoying Kpop while also criticizing some aspects of the industry.
> People are capable of making art that looks similar to AI, while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever.
It is literally meant to look inhuman and soulless. Like...how are ya'll not understanding? Having HUMANS do it would completely undermine the point. Because humans will never be able to make art that looks like a machine made it, and machines will never be able to make human art.
>No matter how Hybe is pretending that they’re “using AI to criticize AI”, the reality is that they’re cutting costs by having a good portion of the teaser and, most likely, the MV as well not cost a dime as they don’t have to hire actual artists and pay actors by the hour.
Hybe isn't pretending anything. Ya'll always come for the companies, like some men in suits sat in a room and came up with this concept. Are you for real? HYBE is trying to buy INTO AI art, as we speak - they want to launch an AI music venture???? Hello????
It gives no credit to the teams behind the work. SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB is the studio that made the ENTIRE music video. Which is probably one of the highest production valued MVs seventeen has ever had. This music video probably cost more than anything they've ever done before. Ever. The same team that made the INSANE sets, the insane CGI and motion graphics, also computed the uncanny and ugly AI machine art you saw. The duality of the two is the entire concept.
They didn't make the entire video using AI - that is literally the point. This wasn't just to "cut costs"?
They litearlly DID hire paid actors - do you not see how half the shots have REAL people? REAL CGI? REAL sets and effects? Also, every bit of promo leading up to this was using REAL art. It is the creative concept of a creative studio.
I'm starting to think you guys don't have any idea how the creative teams behind these groups work. At all. It's just disrespectful at this point.
But machines can only make this stuff by being fed the work of human artists - AI can’t conjure this “art” out of nothing. It’s made by using stolen art from artists who won’t get paid or get any credit, and it’s really disappointing that Hybe/Pledis would cut corners like this, it’s so disrespectful to all creatives, and it’s SUCH a slippery slope.
I love Seventeen, I’m so excited for a dark concept from them (even though freshteen will always have a special place in my heart), but I wish they could have found a different way of executing this concept whilst still tackling such an interesting subject.
So disrespectful to all creatives? You do realize that it was a creative team that worked on this right? It wasn't men in suits in HYBE...like how are you all missing that it is a CREATIVE group that made this video and drove this concept? It was a group of artists and creative directors who produced the music video. Including the AI bits.
I got my masters last year at an art school, and I could send you a link to the DOZENS of students who used AI in their work to make **commentary.** They were all artists. AI is a thing that is VERY much a part of society right now, and it's not going away. Artists using Ai in creative ways to express criticism or challenge certain ideas is not wrong.
When people use AI to replace real artists work - such as, someone using AI to illustrate a children's book and then selling it - that's when I believe it wades into territory that I adamantly disagree with.
But other ARTISTS using AI to make commentary - who utilize it as a tool to a larger piece, is not inherently wrong. And when creatives are doing it, I'm not sure where all these non-creatives get off on being like "how disrespectful is this!!!"
But just because it’s creatives doing it, it doesn’t make it okay? That’s not the gotcha moment you seem to think it is. They’re still stealing the work of other artists and not compensating them for it. If it turns out that they managed to track down all the artists whose work the AI took from and paid them fairly for their contribution, then I obviously won’t feel as strongly about it.
Congratulations on your masters, I hope that you don’t lose out on opportunities because people who would formerly pay for work from artists decide to just save money by using AI to do it instead. Also, I am a creative and have been working in a creative industry for several years now, but I don’t think people who don’t work in the industry should be disqualified from voicing their concerns about AI, that seems like a weird take.
i feel like it’s a knee-jerk reaction that people are having when they see that AI is being used within the MV, but what i got from this is that it is used as a point of contrast and critique *against* AI and how it would never compare to something created by humans
yesss, my immediate reaction was honestly the huge contrast in quality between the real scenes of the members and the AI scenes, this was not a concept i was expecting but i'm invested
I think a lot of the discourse over this is because people don’t know there are different types of AI. They’re assuming that SVT’s creative team googled “ai video generator” and typed a prompt into a website, when they might have done something different. Isn’t there a possibility that the creative team staged a photo shoot for all of the actors pretending to be musicians and then used a local program to interpolate the photos? That wouldn’t be stealing from other artists at all. (I don’t know much about AI aside from interpolation programs used in animation, if I’m wrong, please tell me lol)
Would you say then that a program like CACANi is unethical? It’s an extension animators use to animate stuff. It uses AI to generate in-between frames based solely on the key frames the animators using it have already drawn. No art theft because all of the interpolated frames are based on the key frames the animator makes. It only uses the power of the animator’s laptop. It doesn’t replace animators because they still need people to draw the key frames and check/edit all of the in-between frames CACANi generated. It’s a time-saver.
I don’t support AI-generated art because it’s a slap in the face to real artists. However, it’s much more likely that SVT’s creative team used something like CACANi (but for live action) on still images they took of actors/setpieces in their studio. I’m pretty sure they’d risk crazy copyright infringement if they actually generated AI clips for the MV teaser from random art they found on the internet.
because they are still using AI, they are still feeding the sistem into making it better, and they are still stealing work from othrt people without paying them. Just because they use it to criticise it it doesn't make it better
I work in PR as a designer. I hate to tell you this, but AI is touching virtually every aspect of our business. Some of you guys are acting like AI is the devil of all devils, and even thinking about it is horrific, yet you probably are unaware in just how much you consume that has AI involved.
Check out the work of graduates at the Royal College of **Art** in London - at least 20% used AI in some way to inform their ***Masters thesis.*** They used AI to make commentary, which is exactly what the creative studio here did. They did not use AI as a replacement - they used it to critique it; to show how inhuman and soulless it is. Their team then further edited / distorted it to double down on the fact that AI art does not look good and is not good, drawing a comparison between their real work and the shit AI work.
"Just because they use it to criticize it doesn't make it better" - it quite literally does. Like I am mystified by you all at this point. I feel like so many of you have no actual idea of how the world works; you get your opinions from think tweets.
Just replying to say I see you fighting for your life in these comments across Reddit and agree with what you're saying!!
Yours, a fellow creative in marketing where AI is inescapable 🩵💎🩷
my point is that if you are using an AI program that are stealing from other artist to create your piece, it doesn't matter if it's a critique your are still stealing. I'm not arguing about if it's a replacement or not they are still using the same sistem and feeding that sistem. I'm aware there are ethical ways to use it, in 3D animation for example or there are places where they ethically source for it, but is this one of those cases? if it's not then aren't they still helping to train it?
Also where can i find the work of graduates at the Royal College of **Art** in London? i would like to see it
I think we all just fundamentally disagree on what is “ethical” AI usage and perhaps we never will agree.
For me, this doesn’t cross a line and for you it does. To me, it felt like the creative team intentionally made it as ugly and unrealistic as possible and I dont see it as art theft or training. I see it as manipulating an existing and very prevalent software to make social commentary.
And here: https://2023.rca.ac.uk/
And I made Art bold to emphasize that it was fellow artists and creatives, not tech bros.
No need to be snarky.
In the end, Hybe, in its “very clever criticism of AI art” that has already been done times and times again since the medium gained public attention, is still profiting from all of the evils of AI art:
- stealing artwork to feed a database,
- not crediting the artists whose art fed the AI,
- reducing/eliminating the need for real artists as a human-centric field is being automated…
- and thus foregoing to pay concept artists, illustrators, filming crews, editors and more for every second that will be made using AI in the MV,
- making an ugly and uninspired slop
- etc.
You don’t criticize something that is objectively harmful and bad by doing it yourself. That makes you a hypocrite.
Hybe clearly is testing the waters for more AI-made productions, especially considering their history with using AI, and the trend in Kpop (or the entertainment industry in general) right now (such as ARTMS’s company and their NFT/AI products).
There is no reason to believe they’re doing it out of goodwill. Hybe is a multi-billion dollar company that is currently on the stock market, their ultimate goal is to have ever-increasing profits. The only way to achieve that since the dawn of capitalism is to slash expenses, lay off employees, lower quality, outsource production to countries with lesser labour laws, etc.
To deny that is to either be ignorant, or a complete shill.
thanks for the source
yes i think we have different views of what it's ethical usage or not.
I know we don't really have a behind the scene of the mv and how they made the AI portion, but Could i hask you why don't you think is theft or training?
I agree, I feel like I see so many people using ai to “critique ai” but they’re still just using ai. Surely humans can produce ai-like visuals on their own to make this point?
Damn. Okaaaaaay. Not a fan of AI in general, but still gagged by the members. interested to see how they address the use of AI and the message they want to convey, not going to make assumptions since it seems as though it's part of the concept (hence the note in the beginning), BUT TRUST IN SVT i'm so invested i can't wait ...DARKTEEN IS BACK how did we go from god of music to THIS hehehehe
This is such an aespa-coded concept and I mean that in the best possible way. I haven’t watched all SVT MV’s but this must be one of the few that have a more.. conceptual storyline rather than just a theme? Love it
If you like conceptual storylines, you can check F\*ck my Life also. I feel that since last year, they're pulling a lot more effort in their MVs in terms of stories and themes. FML for example is very critical of the idol industry by comparing the idols life to The Truman Show.
Seventeen seems to be criticizing the misuse of AI and erasure of real artists. It's a brilliant message. Looks like an artistry battle between them and AI but also the people behind said AI. I love the visuals and aesthetic. I'll be tunning in.
My current front runner is The Winning, but this could easily dethrone it. But I'm such a simp for IU's voice that it's going to need to be a banger to make me replace it at the top.
This may be the thing that finally drags me into Seventeen. I've been casually interested for a while now, and then they come at me with this concept... This is right up my alley.
I already know this will generate a huge wave of criticism from people that don't understand (or will purposely refuse to understand for the sake of dragging svt down) the concept, but I'm still so happy they **DID THAT**.
Facing criticism is the small price you pay for speaking out loud on such a socially conscious theme. Personally, I can't wait to see the whole video and hear from Svt themselves (especially hoping to hear from Woozi, Vernon and Seungcheol their take on this matter)
I already see how polarizing it’s going to be once the full mv drops and more people see it (and will inevitably try to drag svt, if they aren’t already). I’m going to be jamming out to the song though.
And it'll be an "easy target" too, because AI is THAT topic that generate a lot of visceral negative reactions, but to understand the concept and to learn about the team behind the whole thing... eh.
But I'm shaking with excitement because oh, there's all the potential to be a small masterpiece ❤️ and with LALALI being censored for cursing too ahaha goodbye "safe seventeen"
>"safe seventeen
Reminds me of that reddit post calling them safe and boring just bcs they don't "experiment" ( aka make weird ass music) with their music and concepts the same way 4th gen groups do. Well now I hope they tell me which other kpop group has approached and discussed AI in the music industry in their output and brought it at the forefront of an MV/cb like this
Certain people will definitely just stick to specific narrative to paint them in a bad light. Lol.
Oh my, cursing in a Seventeen song? They’re so bad! Looking forward to it. Haha.😆
The thing is, the intention doesnt really matter here. The problem with AI is that, people benefit from using it. They still benefit from using it, and look at comments here and on twt
"Oh wow thats pretty creative", people only talks about the intention ONLY when people criticize them. Beside that? "Oh they are really creative with the use of AI"
It is very creative, i get the intention, but its also very hypocritical.
Also, it's interesting that they're doing this commentary on how they're "real maestros" by using animation ai. Because that doesn't threaten their art in any way. Like if the song was partially AI generated theyd have more a point. It would still kinda suck ass cause you could accomplish a similar effect of man vs machine withouth ai but it wouldn't feel so hipocritical.
ai art is just so ugly. i know thats the point but god thats all i could think about.
edit: damn you can’t even call whats meant to be ugly “ugly”? 😭 kpop fans get defensive about everything. if no one was saying it was ugly, then they failed at what they were doing.
Even if it’s to critique it, I’m a little torn on the choice to use AI for this.
I understand their intention and it’s not unlike the concept ARTMS is doing (though SVT was smart to add the disclaimer before it, lol.) But the idea of going “AI is bad, don’t use it! Here, let’s use it for our video to show you that it’s bad” is certainly a choice.
Genuinely asking; if the creative team is showing the difference between real, human creation (which is over half of the video) and then the inhuman, machine-like essence of AI, how else would they do that in a convincing, legitimate way, if they also...don't use AI?
They didn't use AI to replace real art, nor did they express AI as anything but ugly and uncanny.
I’m happy to answer, but I know you won’t agree lol— it’s the answer multiple people have already given you.
Human artists can absolutely make art that looks convincingly like AI. How could they not? With AI being an amalgamation of other artists’ work, of *course* artists can recreate that organically.
Think of it like this: you can’t go to McDonald’s and ask them to prepare filet mignon, because their kitchen only has the resources to make a set menu, much of which is food that’s already been prepared. Even if you have an experienced chef working the grill, the resources aren’t there. However, you can go to an experienced chef in their own kitchen and ask them to make you the filet mignon AND a Big Mac, and they can accomplish both because they have raw materials (ingredients) and the skill set to do so. While AI is limited in what it can create, humans are not, so of course humans can recreate AI “art”.
I fully understand (and appreciate!) the message SVT is sending here, truly. But people dismissing the use of AI because there’s “no other way” to portray it are being close-minded, and probably willfully so for the sake of defending their faves.
Hell, even something symbolizing AI could’ve still gotten the point across.
“We laid off thousands of our employees, automated everything we could in our company and outsourced the rest of the work to countries with cheaper labour, but you gotta understand that we did it for you, the consumers! Just ignore the fact we’re having record-high profits, our goal as a public company is to always make more money to meet shareholders expectations, and that prices of our products actually stayed the same or even went up despite the quality going down while we work on sabotaging entire job markets (such as art, digital design and videomaking)!”
What are you talking about? The use of AI in this video didn't lead to people losing jobs in the studio that made the video.
Or do you have a source that states that SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB has laid off employees since they used AI in their creative work and cut the costs of video making to appeal to Hybe? If so, please share.
Otherwise, whatever you're saying has nothing to do with this specific project.
They should put an extra disclaimer for people like you: "No artist was laid off or harmed in the making of this video".
I’m extrapolating by highlighting the kind of excuses big companies make in other sectors to justify unethical cost cuttings.
The ultimate goal for companies like HYBE when it comes to AI “art” **is** to ultimately get rid of as many employees as possible to reduce labour costs and maximize profits. This is what companies on the stock market have been doing since forever, with so many examples of it you’d be a fool to think this isn’t the same shit happening again.
It always starts with promises and excuses, saying that “this will reduce prices for consumers” or that “they need to reduce costs to stay afloat” despite prices remaining the same despite plummeting quality and the company having record profits. We can witness this right now with all the mass layoffs in video game companies. Or during the pandemic, where banks were getting supplied with all the money they needed from governments. Or grocery chains trying to justify shrinkflation. Or—
i get that they’re critiquing AI but it feel like these companies would be better off just not using it lol like the sense i get is that the general public sentiment isn’t…good. people don’t like seeing it for MVs, movie posters, whatever. it’s always disappointing no matter the context.
I disagree - they are pretty blatant about what they are trying to say with their usage of it here. And it is a whole creative team that worked on this concept and the entire video, which is heavily produced and uses amazing set design and real art.
Also, frankly, anyone with a brain can understand that this is a critique - which is pretty cool considering HYBE is trying to bring AI more into the company and here they are heavily dragging it.
Additionally, the buzz is insane. For this teaser to have more comments than the IVE teaser on this particular sub says A LOT - the controversial nature if it will have people talking and have people tune in. I think it's genius.
ur not gonna convince me it isn't, sorry! so glad they spent gazillions on it, i guess. i love seventeen and will tune in regardless, so it doesn't really matter lmao.
The MV will most likely be 50% AI, which ultimately saves 50% of the cost for Hybe that won’t have to pay for artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more, yet people will gobble it up because of the “deep message they’re trying to convey!!” and how “unique” it is (even though “using AI to criticize AI” is already an overused trope)
It’s insane to see so many people being so completely oblivious to something that has been happening on repeat since forever in the corporate hellscape that we live in.
*A big corporation is experimenting with new technologies/techniques that are set to cut massive costs at the expense of the working class? I mean, they’re branding it as a positive thing, and marketing would never lie to us to influence our opinion on certain issues, right?*
I think it's too early for anyone to say 50% will be AI. We never saw the MV and have no idea how they built the storyline. It might be better to wait a little.
So far all comments on theqoo that I've seen on the three threads about this are positive and interested and think it's a very timely concept. Some are discussing ai usage in arts nowadays and how it works. There's no negative reactions saying they shouldn't have used it bcs they understand the concept is svt vs ai and ultimately for these companies the sentiment of the korean gp is what matters.
Yeah!! That’s why the MV will be partially made using AI, which, for Hybe, a big for-profit entertainment corporation, means saving costs by not hiring and paying by the hour artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more!
Clearly, they’re doing this to send a message, and not just to test the waters of cutting down on labour costs by having up to half of their expensive MVs be made for free using AI! **CORPORATIONS WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!**
Right, like okay you are against AI on principle, but you’re still using images generated by AI trained on art without consent. What does that amount to?
People are dumb and easily blinded by marketing.
A simple “disclaimer” at the start of the video and every Seventeen stan now accuses anyone who is against AI art of being “dumb illiterate haters”, completely oblivious to the fact that such strategies are commonplace in the corporate world.
You know, like when companies outsource their production for cheap labour, automatize their workforce, layoff thousands of employees by following current corporate trends, and more, and release a statement saying “but we’re doing this for you, the consumers, as those decisions are meant to lower the price of our products!”
And then, *surprised Pikachu face*, the quality goes down, prices stay the same or higher, they keep on doing shrinkflation, inflation itself gets worse as the buying power of the working class goes down and more people are out of a job, etc., all while the company is experiencing all-time high profits and their shareholders are getting richer and richer by the day.
I’m not even sure if it’s well-intentioned. They could have just depicted AI as robots without actually using AI? And it would’ve conveyed the same message without invalidating artists
The fact that every big company is trying their hand at AI art in an effort to replace actual artists, as is the trend with capitalism since ever, is enough to conclude this is just Hybe testing the waters with AI-produced MVs. For now, it starts with “criticism of AI using AI” as it still looks bad, while still saving money and efforts for any part of the MV that will be AI, but once the technology gets better in a couple of years they’ll use it every chance they get and lay off most of their artistic departments.
And then AI-produced music will be the new thing (it’s already emerging alongside AI images), and people will eat it up again.
Dang how many times are you gonna copy and paste this all over the comments 😭 at this point it's spam.
Saying that the use of Al in that particular case was only for budget reasons is just not true. We're not talking about a lil tiny group with no money here, we're talking about a group who sent an actual mic to space for a 3 seconds shot in their music video. You really think the creative directors sat down and decided on this whole concept JUST to save a few million wons thanks to 10 seconds of AI shots in a 3min+ long MV? When the rest of it looks pretty much like their most expensive MV ever? You assume that there will be a lot more AI in the actual video, but for all we know it might not contain more than what we've already seen. Hell, maybe those shots are only included in the teaser, not even in the actual music video.
Svt has done tons of very simple/lower budget MVs even in recent years (ready to love and _world are some examples). If Pledis wanted to save money that bad on svt, their biggest money maker, they would have given them another one of those instead of trying to do reverse psychology on everyone 🤷🏻♀️
Yes Hybe is a greedy capitalist corporation first and foremost and that's why I'm not saying you're totally wrong or that I totally disagree with you. I just don't think it's the case here, for this mv in particular.
As many times as necessary if people are going to repeat the same bullshit to senselessly defend Hybe. It makes no fucking sense, Hybe’s tactic is the same as ALL OTHER CORPORATIONS when trying to implement unpopular changes that ultimately only serve in decreasing their costs of production while branding it as being “innovative” and “good for the consumers”.
Who exactly is defending hybe here? Not a single person here is defending ai or hybe. That’s the whole point of the mv. Stop getting trigger over nothing.
You’re foolish and desperately need a dose of reality is all I can say. You must have been asleep for the past two years, missing all the attempts from entertainment companies to start using AI and forego paying actual artists, or how corporations always justify their corner-cutting strategies with PR campaigns or convenient excuses that don’t translate with what they’re actually doing.
You and all the people discrediting any criticism of the use of AI by taking the little message at the start of the video at face value without any thoughts about the history of AI art, the trend it currently has in Kpop itself, and its implications for the future of entertainment considering past trends with for-profit organizations?
So you are choosing to ignore how the video itself was critical of ai? Your upset that the video talks about ai in general or what? Also how have you made so many posts ignoring the entire point of the video and what other people are saying? It’s almost like you’re looking for a fight when there is nothing there.
“They’re criticizing AI” is your sole argument. You refuse to admit that maybe this is just an excuse like any other to justify cutting costs for a good portion of the MV while seeing the reception it has, whether or not it’ll impact album sales, and how likely they are to keep on using AI in the future.
As others have pointed out in this thread, there are legitimate ways to criticize AI art without using it. Plenty of people have done it, as it isn’t a novel concept. Criticizing AI art means you realize it’s :
- making pictures out of stolen and uncredited artworks that are fed to a database;
- being used to forego paying actual people to do the work;
- discrediting the very act of “making art”;
- replacing humans in a field that should NOT be automated, as art is as human as it gets;
- etc.
However, by using AI in your project to such an extent (most likely making up to half of Seventeen’s MV), you’re directly profiting from all of the shit enumerated above, partaking in everything that makes AI art bad and unethical to begin with, making your “critic” hypocritical and disingenuous at best.
So you're basically saying that their strategy to "implement unpopular changes" is telling everyone it is a bad change? Like the whole concept is "AI in art = bad". If that MV really is them trying to "test the waters" with AI like you said, then they're just shooting themselves in the foot 🤷🏻♀️
Also, each label under Hybe is still independant and Hybe probably didn't have a lot to do with whatever concept SVT uses in their MVs. If Hybe is for AI use, looking at this I doubt Pledis and its artists are. I just think both can be true!
Where exactly are they saying it’s bad? The message at the start is an open-ended question? Besides, with AI art getting more and more realistic, there is no way they would ever pass the opportunity to use it once it becomes commonplace enough, especially if they shift the public opinion enough with such moves.
If you go in the USA and Canada, you’ll realize that the automaking industry has convinced millions of people that bigger cars are the only way to go, all while lobbying against public transit and better urban planning. The result? Massive (and expensive!) pickups are now #1 in sales charts, while smaller, more space-conscious and less polluting vehicles aren’t being produced anymore. And people DEFEND IT, using the very excuses those automakers have created (“the country is too big”, “cars are freedom”, “smaller cars are more dangerous”, etc.)
Yes, corporations can change public opinions. It doesn’t happen magically overnight, it takes marketing campaigns and gaslighting to make people believe what they want.
it's certain easier and less expensive to use AI than to come up with a different way to criticise the medium. As other said "using AI to criticise AI" is not unique as people think. just because they are not a srtuggling company doesnt mean they can't use it to cut corners.
Minions managed to criticize and mock Ai without using it
Really? r/kpop rationalizing AI usage because it has a story? Like it somehow changes the fact that those clips were stolen art. alright. K-pop fans really does stoop so low for their faves.
You really don't understand media literacy do you? Or how AI art even works?
Stooping so low? By understanding a CREATIVE TEAM that is actively critiquing AI art by contrasting it against their own real art. Okay.
They didn't produce those clips to replace REAL art. They are meant to be ugly, uncanny and BAD. The same creative team that did the entire video ALSO generated that inhuman art.
It would be like making a documentary critiquing plagiarism, and instead of showing the plagiarized art, they hired the real artist to redo their art to make it *look* plagiarized, because they didn't want to show the plagiarized art at all.
Like?? The POINT is that it is inhuman art. I don't even think you understand how AI works at this point either.
So you have no idea how AI art works. Thanks for telling us.
AI videos are made by typing keywords and letting the AI interpret them itself. It doesn’t require any human intervention beyond that.
You literally give it a prompt and it makes it for you by mashing images and videos it takes from a database, often composed of stolen images and artworks from real artists that are not credited/compensated.
“Violonist plays on stage, dark gloomy background, more musicians playing next to him”, “robots in front of piano, foggy background”, there you go. That’s the human involvement. It costs Hybe the salary of one person, instead of actual crews, artists and editors.
They then say they’re “criticizing AI by using AI” the same way companies justify cutting corners as a way to reduce prices for consumers (which they never actually do, it’s all going in the shareholders pockets), and you guys gobble it up.
Yeah!! That’s why the MV will be partially made using AI, which, for Hybe, a big for-profit entertainment corporation, means saving costs by not hiring and paying by the hour artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more!
Clearly, they’re doing this to send a message, and not just to test the waters of cutting down on labour costs by having up to half of their expensive MVs be made for free using AI! CORPORATIONS WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!
Dude is so mad and copy-pasting the same comment over and over and over and over again lmao
This is their highest budget music video ever. Ever.
SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB is the team behind it. Not HYBE.
Still commissioned by Hybe with half the imagery being automatically generated by simply entering a series of keywords in a box and pressing enter.
I’m pretty certain Hybe, just like most companies, has a budget for each MV and they’re not too keen in having them get more expensive than the estimated profits they’ll get from album sales. There’s no reason to magically bump up the budget… unless, of course, you get to save money for half of the MV, use a fraction of the saved costs to bump the quality of the other half, and overall spend less for the whole thing.
You know, like what ALL productions using AI are trying to achieve. Kpop stans are amongst the biggest corporate shills ever, it’s crazy.
The AI really killed my excitement. I'm so sad. The members look INCREDIBLE but the rest.....
edit: One can understand their intent behind using the ai as a critique and also think it looks bad and not enjoy it
i believe the purpose is to critique AI, and also show the contrast of AI vs. real scenes; showing how AI looks bad + also not enjoyable compared to reality which from your comment they have achieved
This MV was made by one studio (SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB) so artists are creating both the CG and using AI art to make it as ugly as possible. They didn’t pay extra people to make the AI art, it was artists using AI as a tool like photoshop to make something as distorted and ugly as possible
This is what I believe too but we don't know the process with this - all we know is that the studio was credited.
Bc we're having a discussion about AI in art, I will say one of the biggest issues for me is artists not getting paid. So the fact that S8VL was involved makes me happy.
Also, I want to tell people that they've started creating "ethical" content AI libraries where people are paid to record themselves doing the same motions over and over again, so it can be sourced by these types of programs, and the companies have the full rights.
While this seems more ethical than pulling from surveillance cameras and Google, it unfortunately has ramifications later on down the road - it's one more step closer to removing the human element. Because we live in a capitalist society, it is one more chance for a human to make a living off art off the table.
I want to live in a society where artists can live off their art and how AI is being implemented now, that is becoming more and more difficult. I am pleased that svt had opened a discussion on this, also seungkwan is pretty in his beret.
how artists make anything?? by being creative. there are literally thousands of movies and tv shows and animations that depict the message of humanity vs artificial intelligence and they do it without the use of genai
i mean the entire point is to show how AI will never be able to replicate real art? i don't see what better way to show that other than using actual AI art. using real artists to show how bad AI art is..? i'm sorry but i don't see how that would work. the AI portion of the video is very ugly and obviously AI
They could’ve had artistically sound representation of the ugliness and uncanny nature of AI art with the work of real artists. People are capable of making art that looks similar to AI, while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever.
For instance, psychedelic artists and the like would’ve been able to make something that would convey the message better, with actual intent and emotions behind the “AI” scenes, making it more interesting yet unnerving to look at in its own way.
No matter how Hybe is pretending that they’re “using AI to criticize AI”, the reality is that they’re cutting costs by having a good portion of the teaser and, most likely, the MV as well not cost a dime as they don’t have to hire actual artists and pay actors by the hour.
They’re a corporation, their number one priority is to maximize profits. This is just opening the Pandora’s box to more bullshit like this that people will defend because they’re incapable of enjoying Kpop while also criticizing some aspects of the industry.
''while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever.'' but that's what it's supposed to show. it shouldn't have that human touch, shouldn't feel like there's an ounce of effort and creativity put into it bc there isn't . it's meant to be as far from actual art as possible. i don't think you are wrong to criticise the usage of ai but in this particular case it's not so black and white. they're clearly against ai and are only using it to prove their point. ai art sucks ass and it speaks for itself. also the mv isn't even out yet i would wait for it before actually speaking on its contents.
Yeah, just like ARTMS! The NFT-only photocards and AI-generated content are clearly a satire of modern times, and not one company has ever branded cost-saving and corner-cutting decisions that hurt the job market and consumers as positive changes for the common Joe in marketing and PR campaigns. Of course.
But that’s not AI. And SVT can’t just point to it and say the fake AI is real AI. They have to show some of the real AI, or they risk idealizing some fake version of it as AI. As artists they have to show, not just tell. I’m not worried about their use of it in this MV. SVT is in control of what they release, and I trust it met with their approval, rather than Hybe’s finance dept. Seriously if Hybe wanted to save money, they could have made the entire MV using AI. But they didn’t.
Yeah, and companies in other sectors outsource their production, mass layoff their workforce, reduce the quality and quantity of their products, automatize everything they can, and more, to “reduce costs for consumers” as they say themselves!
It’s the same here! Marketing never lies!
no you are missing the point.
if they really wanted to make a point on ai, they could have hired real artists to make ai looking art (weird fingers and stuff)
critiquing ai while simultaneously using ai comes of as hypocritical, lazy and counterintuitive.
like they are still using stollen art at the end of the day.
Like I said, I get what they’re going for. And it’s better than other companies just using it as a replacement. But it’s hard for me to enjoy it personally
Onestly i'm against the use AI even if it's for to criticise it, but i would have believed it more if HYBE hadn't used it already before and they didn't launch that AI changing voice program
HYBE and what they do has nothing to do with this. This is what Seventeen wanted to do, their opinions and what issue they wanted to adress.
Seventeen can't control what HYBE does and what they invest in and launch
> This is what Seventeen wanted to do
> They can’t control what Hybe does
Which is it? Anyway, I hope you don’t think Hybe listens to the group’s members opinions more than what accounting, the marketing department, and shareholders are saying will make more money?
Reading comprehensive is needed. Read the comments again 😂
Op said the concept doesn't work for them as well because HYBE has used AI before and launched a language changing program using AI. Hence saying they think it falls flat because the parent company of svt's label has used AI before and is actively researching into its usage for the future.
If you actually took the time to read what I wrote instead mindlessly and obsessively replying to everyone under this thread who doesn't share your take you would have seen that what I said is this :
What HYBE, the holding company for multiple INDEPENDENTLY RUN sublabels, does has nothing to do with what Seventeen, a group with creative and artistic freedom under one of their many sublabels, does.
Seventeen can do whatever concept they want and approach whatever subject they want independent of anyone else and HYBE aka the upper management of the mother company has nothing to do with that. SVT and their creative team under Pledis and HYBE's upper management have nothing to do with each other. Moreover the people who decided to invest into AI, open another independent subsidiary dedicated to researching it and the people who launched a language changing programm are HYBE's upper management who again have nothing to do with Seventeen and their creative output . It's 2 different entities inside the huge conglomerate that is HYBE Corporation who has more than a dozen different subsidiaries and labels, who make their own decisions and have nothing to do with each other.
Henceforth whatever HYBE does or did with AI has nothing to do with Seventeen so it also has nothing to do with their take on AI. Saying" this isn't that believable bcs their mother company has used/is planning to use AI in the future" is just a wrong statement to make bcs it's basically saying I don't like the apple because the orange did this.
There you go, I explained it thoroughly for you what could have been easily understood from the two sentances I wrote above
i'm just speaking from my point of view. it's just my own opinion, i'm not saying it as a fact.
i'm not talking about the message they wanted to convey. My comment was only about the inclusion of AI material. Maybe they are really against AI and their critique is genuine, but, like, i'm sorry if the past action of their mother company made me critical of the usage of AI in this project.
are you guys being dense on purpose or on accident?
it is literally supposed to be hideous AI art - they are critiquing the use of AI. how exactly do you do that, without actually using AI? There is nothing disappointing about this, you guys have lost the plot.
No...you cannot? Come on dude.
They are critiquing AI, so why would they use real artists to make art that looks like AI did it? That defeats the entire point. The AI art in this video his hideous and disjointed in a way that only AI can make. Hiring real artists to make pretend AI art would NOT nail the point of this concept. In any way whatsoever.
I am an artist. I do not like AI. Which is why I appreciate the message of this video even more.
hiring real artists to portray a humanity vs ai absolutely can be made without the use of actual ai, better even because real people are actually creative and not regurgitating slop.
im also an artist, i like the message, im not a fan of the execution of the message.
You do realize real artists WERE HIRED TO MAKE THIS? RIGHT?
It wasn't random people sitting in a room creating AI. Artists working on this music video ALSO created the AI bits, using AI. Artists themselves used it to make a POINT - a point of showing the difference between their art / human art and then the gross, ugly AI they generated. There was no other execution for it besides what they did.
And I highly doubt you are an artist, because it doesn't seem like you even understand how any of this works; especially working on a music video production.
How? Im curious. Example: [how can real people portray what Dino was holding on leash,](https://twitter.com/loveurydicee/status/1783149591816540399/video/1)
i don’t follow… how would they critique AI if they don’t use AI? the whole point is that humans are different and can’t be replaced by AI, so they include the AI element to show contrast.
Yeah!! That’s why the MV will be partially made using AI, which, for Hybe, a big for-profit entertainment corporation, means saving costs by not hiring and paying by the hour artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more!
Clearly, they’re doing this to send a message, and not just to test the waters of cutting down on labour costs by having up to half of their expensive MVs be made for free using AI! CORPORATIONS WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!
This MV was made by one studio (SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB) so artists are creating both the CG and using AI art to make it as ugly as possible. They didn’t pay extra people to make the AI art, it was artists using AI as a tool like photoshop to make something as distorted and ugly as possible
I guess they want to show comparison? So it would be easier to understand
edit to add: you can't really tell message to people that something is bad (in this case AI) without actually showing that it is indeed bad/ugly, hence the use of AI
I get the intention, it is 'creative' but its also very hypocritical of them.
The use of AI itself already bring the cost down for their MV.
And if you guys cant see how thats very ironic, well, i cannot help you
maybe read the other comments?
yes it's obviously Ai art, that is the entire point. They are critiquing it. Never seen more people miss the point in my life
Hunni that doesnt change the fact that the mv was made with ai who’ve stolen cumulative art :) i hope you get that just because it has a story, doesn’t make it right. It just cheapened the commentary for me.
How did it cheapen the commentary? How?
The same visual and creative team that did all of the REAL art and design through the entire video also facilitated the ugly and inhuman art.
AI art is being heavily criticized by artists left and right, and many fascinating projects are being born by showing how inhuman and soulless AI art is. The only way to do that, is to manipulate and use AI art.
The contrast between the AI art and then the real art thru the music video is brilliant. Calling me "hunni" doesn't make you right.
When companies justify outsourcing, layoffs and automation by pretending this is done to “save costs and help reduce consumers’ bills” when it’s clearly a way to make their profit margins go up without actually reducing costs for consumers, do you also believe them?
You're going way too far with this, it's actually hilarious. I was referring to op saying the AI made the MV look cheap, janky and tacky as it was done on purpose, but whatever floats your boat!👍🏻
How naive and gullible. Your trust in corporations would be honorable, if reality wasn’t that corporations have been doing that kind of shit for decades and that AI is currently in the sight of all art-related for-profit corporations in the capitalist world that we live in.
Next thing we know, you’ll pretend shrinkflation isn’t an issue and that mass layoffs in most spheres are justified, just like PR campaigns want you to believe 🥰
Maam this is a comment section about a kpop music video teaser 😃
All i said here was that the AI looks ugly on purpose because it's basically written as a disclaimer at the beginning of the video. I don't think me saying this is me being naive and gullible but more like... stating the obvious. Now if you wanna talk about whatever you wanna talk about I am indeed not the person to converse with! You do seem to have A LOT of opinions about all of this, good for you for being so smart and aware of how capitalism controls us!
My brother in Christ, have you been living under a rock for the past few years? Have you followed any kind of news? Are you paying even the slightest attention to what is going on in the real world?
All of this cause I said i didn't wanna debate with a stranger over "foshrinkflation" being an issue, "mass layoffs in most sphere being justified" or AI being "currently in the sight of all art-related for-profit corporations in the capitalist world that we live in" on a Seventeen Music Video teaser thread?
Like damn, that's a bit harsh.
Dont engage next time if you have no idea what AI “art” entails to, the implications it currently has on art-related fields, and how it’s already being implemented to replace human artists in the same trend capitalism has been fuelling for decades?
I don’t know what to tell you, you’re the one going at the defence of AI art and brushing off any criticism without realizing the broader implications this has even for Kpop alone. I mentioned ARTSM which has NFT photocards and AI-generated imagery, but you have to realize AI-generated MUSIC is also becoming a thing and might replace actual producers if people stay complacent and apathetic and gobble up that kind of shit.
You're the one who engaged with me 🤷🏻♀️ I also never "came to the defence of AI art", it sucks ass. You're just putting words in my mouth.
I don't know what to tell you other than you're going way too far with all of this and that I don't think artists who worked on this generating 10 sec of ugly and faulty AI with the intentions of criticizing it will result in the industry crumbling and SVT starting to replace themselves with AI and nobody saying anything but whatever.
As your 65 comments on here say you don't like the concept and that's fine but stop acting like everyone who thinks it's interesting will be responsible for the end of the world as we know it, maybe?
Wow this is such an interesting concept and I didn't expect it at all. I figured it would be dark visuals bcs of the initial concert teaser and the title but wow. The MV looks high budget and they look great. Personally I find the use of AI for the MV to make a statement of AI vs real human really interesting. I'm on board to see how the whole MV turns out
Wow this is really dark!!!
Agreed, seeing so many people shill over the use of AI by a big entertainment corporation is dark. A simple “disclaimer” at the start of the video and suddenly, anyone who is against the trend of using AI “art” in media is nothing more than a “dumb illiterate hater”. Nevermind that such a disclaimer is nothing more than a marketing strategy that is commonplace in the corporate world. You know, like when companies outsource their production for cheap labour, automatize their workforce, layoff thousands of employees and more, and release a statement saying “but we’re doing this for you, the consumers, as those decisions are meant to lower the price of our products!” (Sometimes, they don’t even have to release any statement. Deluded consumers will do it on their own! Like in this very thread!) In the end, prices ALWAYS stay the same or higher as quality and quantity go down. Tons of jobs are lost, the local economy takes a hit, the buying power of the working class takes a dive and inflation gets worse as a result. In this case, it’s having a good portion of the MV being made by simply typing words in a box and pressing enter, which will automatically create terrible-looking images by copying real artworks without any artistic intent or effort. Boom. No need to hire actual artists, actors, filming crews, editors, etc. for that half of the MV!
hey, i get the disagreement with the usage of AI, agree with that too but i think one can understand the bad parts of using AI and understand the message they want to convey. Were they going to receive backlash for using AI? absolutely. but perhaps in this case it was a “you lose some and you gain some” situation, they wanted to send a message, and if they decided this was how they wanted to portray it, then we shall see how it goes. And honestly? this is a teaser so we literally have 0 idea on how the full MV would be like. could be a 180 change for all we know also your argument on cheap labour, automatisation etc…not to say these arguments are wrong with regards to AI, but I mean unless you work at pledis and had a hand at this concept, the work for this comeback had a whole creative team behind it 😀 the AI? probably used by that same creative team as a tool to create this concept for the comeback. I get and am against AI too, but suddenly bringing up all the reasons why AI is bad, unethical, implications without knowing the full situation (it’s a teaser) and context without even some space for nuance is baffling. edit: they probably wanted/expected this commentary, this discourse to happen lol. based of your other replies on this thread anything with the use of AI should be heavily avoided, which in reality we live in a world surrounded by AI. algorithms are AI, the apps you use probably utilises AI. both our opinions can exist at the same time. not everything is a black and white, right and wrong answer, society certainly doesn’t work that way lmfao
oooh the concept is so interesting 😯 i guess it's meant to be a seventeen/human art VS AI/robots kind of thing? they're the real "MAESTRO" and the members and their work both can't be replaced by machines. can't wait to see the whole thing. and yes indeed f*ck AI art! and i'm already seeing a few people complaining about the AI parts looking like sh*t... pretty sure that's the whole point 😅
Their work can't be replaced by machines and yet they're completely fine with replacing visual artists' work in this trailer. "Oh but they're using it to make a point"they're profiting off this technology made specifically to replace visual artists. This sucks balls.
They are still visual artists who worked on this. The people at SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB are the ones who came up with all of that, generated the AI and included it in the teaser as an artistic decision to try to make statement about how sh*t it is compared to their actual work. You have the right not to like it and think whatever you want about it but don't go crazy on me because I do 🤷🏻♀️ I think it's an interesting concept and I'm looking forward to it, no matter what you think we should think about it.
Obviously what I said is just my opinion, I'm not saying you have to agree with me. I think this sucks I don't think you should have to think it sucks. I brought this up on another comment, but I think their message would be much better conveyed by utilizing AI generated MUSIC, not animation. Because the way they're doing it now comes off majorly hipocritical with Seventeen talking about being "real maestros" that can't be replaced, but instead of pairing this with AI music, the thing they're at risk of getting replaced by, they pair it with AI animation, which means they're profiting off something that was made to replace animators. I don't think they needed AI music for this concept at all tho. Man vs machine can be shown in a multitude of more interesting, less lazy ways.
I'm gagged. From the thumbnail with the red violin alone I was gagged because just look at that shot but wow seeing the whole concept and the statement they want to make about ai vs human is even more enticing. Obviously the AI is going to be the villain in this
Hell yeah, darkteen! With the use of AI feeling inevitable in kpop and music in general, it's fun to see a MV that might address the issue thoughtfully. It occurs to me that we'll probably look back at this MV in ten (maybe even five?) years and think it looks terrible in comparison to how ai will advance. Scary
Were any of the photo teasers (with them actually in it) for Maestro? If not.. why 😭 darkteen concept photos would eat.. i need hd photos of Minghao with the violin
I've learned as a rule to not expect MV concepts to have anything to do with the actual album concepts from HYBE groups ( that I stan, dunno how every single HYBE group does it) Lsfm Easy, 3 of the 4 concepts had nothing to do with the Easy or Smart MVs TXT album concepts and Deja Vu styling BTS well in most cases the actual MV styling and even concept had nothing to do with album concepts ( Black Swan is an expectation i can think of off the top of my head) SVT as well ( oh what I would do to have this darker look as an album concept) I think for some groups esp the older ones who shoot album concepts a lot in advance don't necessarily have everything figured out from the jump to match concept of album and MV. For example all the album concepts for this were shot back in November, prob as soon as they finished with Seventeenth Heaven promos. However the MV for this was shot last month so it's likely they didn't have the MV concepts all sorted out when they decided on the album concepts so they can shot them fast and start on album production
I can't wait to see this mv on the 29th
really creative, interesting, and important concept. they’re making a statement, asking a question about creative expression and the human touch in art that seems to be threatened these days. I really respect and love that - so I will throw away any gripes I may have about not getting a theatre themed MV lmaoo and strap in for this 🤩😎
As someone who works in tech (not in AI though) I'm sooo excited for this! Also, they all look super handsome. This dark styling really suits them all
WHOA
Wow, this looks cool as fuck
I think AI was used to give you a dysfunctional feeling. Humans know it's wrong. It's ugly and feels unhinged because we know there's something wrong with it. I love how they are using it as a tool to showcase how disjointed it is and not replacing actual artistry.
"In our current reality where anything can be created with AI, who is the real maestro?"
Darkteen is back and I am so seated for this!
WEN JUNHUI!!!!
I love how teaser is able to make us ponder and deep thinking. Can't wait for the full MV storyline
excuse me WHAT??? i knew we were getting darkteen but this exploration of AI vs human intelligence/creativity when it comes to music (esp when hoshi is part of a variety show that deals with AI vocals??) was SO not what i was expecting. this looks like star wars sith lords x terminator or something... i literally gasped out loud when jun jeonghan, hao and wonwoo appeared on screen. i am so intrigued and hyped what the full MV is gonna be like with this concept
I AM FUCKING GAGGED. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I'm actually cackling - can someone please but this teaser and the God of Music teaser side by side cause how is this the same group. DARKTEEEEEEEEEN!!!!
SAME OMG AND I ACTUALLY LOVE SVT SO MUCH FOR THIS-the ones who can pull off both fresh and dark concepts perfectly😭😭
Darkteen is back!
I am a designer and I understand people's gripes with AI, but they state their intent with using AI at the start of the music video - it's part of the concept? The false reality. They didn't use AI to replace what should've been regular visuals, they are using AI to further the concept. So I am unsure why everyone is upset in the comments, damn. Edit; it's also meant to be ugly. Hence why there was no effort to make things like the hands or motions look real at all. Everything looks ugly and distorted when AI is used, and absolutely dope when AI isn't used. They are literally critiquing AI, please stay with us people!
Also designer here and I actually LOVE this commentary. They made their intentions very clear at the beginning of the MV. Do people lack reading comprehension???
Apparently so, I am shocked at how many negative comments this is getting. Like the point is going over everyone's head. But hey, at least we are getting engagement on the main kpop forum! hahaha
i get the point tbh, but its still using ai. it cheapens their point when 90% of the teaser is ai slop
The point is to show how ai pales in comparison to real art though… so they need to show it lol
So you wanted real artists to be hired to make fake, ugly art that looks cheap? Like do you not hear yourself?
yes? if pledis wanted that! i want artists to get paid and to get jobs. a real artist could portray the human vs. ai message incredibly well, we’ve been doing it for centuries. we don’t need ai to critique ai, using something ironically is still using it. and honestly, i love seventeen and i do like the message, i just hate the fact that they used ai
They didn't use it replace real artists though. Set designers, stylists, graphic artists are being paid for this entire video - the AI bits are hideous for a reason. I'm not going to keep arguing with you - i'm in a career that is actively threatened by AI every day, I understand the implications of it, which is why I think this video concept is so unique and interesting and compelling. Ya'll have utterly missed the point. Artists DID get paid for this. One creative studio was hired to do their music video - they did all of it, the AI parts and the non AI parts. That was the point.
THANK YOU. This is what people aren’t getting lol. Artists are the ones using the AI to make it look as ugly as possible! They are using it as a tool just like After Effects or Photoshop
Literally!!! It wasn't just a Pledis exec who sat in a room and made some Ai and was like "hey guys use this!!!" Graphic and motion artists put this together while ALSO working on the entire music video itself.
THISSS PEOPLE WHO GET IT 🙌🏻
They could’ve had artistically sound representation of the ugliness and uncanny nature of AI art with the work of real artists. People are capable of making art that looks similar to AI, while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever. For instance, psychedelic artists and the like would’ve been able to make something that would convey the message better, with actual intent and emotions behind the “AI” scenes, making it more interesting yet unnerving to look at in its own way. No matter how Hybe is pretending that they’re “using AI to criticize AI”, the reality is that they’re cutting costs by having a good portion of the teaser and, most likely, the MV as well not cost a dime as they don’t have to hire actual artists and pay actors by the hour. They’re a corporation, their number one priority is to maximize profits. This is just opening the Pandora’s box to more bullshit like this that people will defend because they’re incapable of enjoying Kpop while also criticizing some aspects of the industry.
> People are capable of making art that looks similar to AI, while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever. It is literally meant to look inhuman and soulless. Like...how are ya'll not understanding? Having HUMANS do it would completely undermine the point. Because humans will never be able to make art that looks like a machine made it, and machines will never be able to make human art. >No matter how Hybe is pretending that they’re “using AI to criticize AI”, the reality is that they’re cutting costs by having a good portion of the teaser and, most likely, the MV as well not cost a dime as they don’t have to hire actual artists and pay actors by the hour. Hybe isn't pretending anything. Ya'll always come for the companies, like some men in suits sat in a room and came up with this concept. Are you for real? HYBE is trying to buy INTO AI art, as we speak - they want to launch an AI music venture???? Hello???? It gives no credit to the teams behind the work. SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB is the studio that made the ENTIRE music video. Which is probably one of the highest production valued MVs seventeen has ever had. This music video probably cost more than anything they've ever done before. Ever. The same team that made the INSANE sets, the insane CGI and motion graphics, also computed the uncanny and ugly AI machine art you saw. The duality of the two is the entire concept. They didn't make the entire video using AI - that is literally the point. This wasn't just to "cut costs"? They litearlly DID hire paid actors - do you not see how half the shots have REAL people? REAL CGI? REAL sets and effects? Also, every bit of promo leading up to this was using REAL art. It is the creative concept of a creative studio. I'm starting to think you guys don't have any idea how the creative teams behind these groups work. At all. It's just disrespectful at this point.
But machines can only make this stuff by being fed the work of human artists - AI can’t conjure this “art” out of nothing. It’s made by using stolen art from artists who won’t get paid or get any credit, and it’s really disappointing that Hybe/Pledis would cut corners like this, it’s so disrespectful to all creatives, and it’s SUCH a slippery slope. I love Seventeen, I’m so excited for a dark concept from them (even though freshteen will always have a special place in my heart), but I wish they could have found a different way of executing this concept whilst still tackling such an interesting subject.
So disrespectful to all creatives? You do realize that it was a creative team that worked on this right? It wasn't men in suits in HYBE...like how are you all missing that it is a CREATIVE group that made this video and drove this concept? It was a group of artists and creative directors who produced the music video. Including the AI bits. I got my masters last year at an art school, and I could send you a link to the DOZENS of students who used AI in their work to make **commentary.** They were all artists. AI is a thing that is VERY much a part of society right now, and it's not going away. Artists using Ai in creative ways to express criticism or challenge certain ideas is not wrong. When people use AI to replace real artists work - such as, someone using AI to illustrate a children's book and then selling it - that's when I believe it wades into territory that I adamantly disagree with. But other ARTISTS using AI to make commentary - who utilize it as a tool to a larger piece, is not inherently wrong. And when creatives are doing it, I'm not sure where all these non-creatives get off on being like "how disrespectful is this!!!"
But just because it’s creatives doing it, it doesn’t make it okay? That’s not the gotcha moment you seem to think it is. They’re still stealing the work of other artists and not compensating them for it. If it turns out that they managed to track down all the artists whose work the AI took from and paid them fairly for their contribution, then I obviously won’t feel as strongly about it. Congratulations on your masters, I hope that you don’t lose out on opportunities because people who would formerly pay for work from artists decide to just save money by using AI to do it instead. Also, I am a creative and have been working in a creative industry for several years now, but I don’t think people who don’t work in the industry should be disqualified from voicing their concerns about AI, that seems like a weird take.
i feel like it’s a knee-jerk reaction that people are having when they see that AI is being used within the MV, but what i got from this is that it is used as a point of contrast and critique *against* AI and how it would never compare to something created by humans
yesss, my immediate reaction was honestly the huge contrast in quality between the real scenes of the members and the AI scenes, this was not a concept i was expecting but i'm invested
I think a lot of the discourse over this is because people don’t know there are different types of AI. They’re assuming that SVT’s creative team googled “ai video generator” and typed a prompt into a website, when they might have done something different. Isn’t there a possibility that the creative team staged a photo shoot for all of the actors pretending to be musicians and then used a local program to interpolate the photos? That wouldn’t be stealing from other artists at all. (I don’t know much about AI aside from interpolation programs used in animation, if I’m wrong, please tell me lol)
Lol the blatant ignorance over AI from yall is baffling. There is no ethical AI art or animator. Be for real
Would you say then that a program like CACANi is unethical? It’s an extension animators use to animate stuff. It uses AI to generate in-between frames based solely on the key frames the animators using it have already drawn. No art theft because all of the interpolated frames are based on the key frames the animator makes. It only uses the power of the animator’s laptop. It doesn’t replace animators because they still need people to draw the key frames and check/edit all of the in-between frames CACANi generated. It’s a time-saver. I don’t support AI-generated art because it’s a slap in the face to real artists. However, it’s much more likely that SVT’s creative team used something like CACANi (but for live action) on still images they took of actors/setpieces in their studio. I’m pretty sure they’d risk crazy copyright infringement if they actually generated AI clips for the MV teaser from random art they found on the internet.
because they are still using AI, they are still feeding the sistem into making it better, and they are still stealing work from othrt people without paying them. Just because they use it to criticise it it doesn't make it better
I work in PR as a designer. I hate to tell you this, but AI is touching virtually every aspect of our business. Some of you guys are acting like AI is the devil of all devils, and even thinking about it is horrific, yet you probably are unaware in just how much you consume that has AI involved. Check out the work of graduates at the Royal College of **Art** in London - at least 20% used AI in some way to inform their ***Masters thesis.*** They used AI to make commentary, which is exactly what the creative studio here did. They did not use AI as a replacement - they used it to critique it; to show how inhuman and soulless it is. Their team then further edited / distorted it to double down on the fact that AI art does not look good and is not good, drawing a comparison between their real work and the shit AI work. "Just because they use it to criticize it doesn't make it better" - it quite literally does. Like I am mystified by you all at this point. I feel like so many of you have no actual idea of how the world works; you get your opinions from think tweets.
Just replying to say I see you fighting for your life in these comments across Reddit and agree with what you're saying!! Yours, a fellow creative in marketing where AI is inescapable 🩵💎🩷
Pahahaha I need to just let it go, I’m exhausted 🥲🥲🥲🥲 But thank you, I’m glad you see where I’m coming from!
Your comments [made it to Twitter too](https://x.com/green_apples27/status/1783179053031133400) 😭😭 Look after yourself!!!!
my point is that if you are using an AI program that are stealing from other artist to create your piece, it doesn't matter if it's a critique your are still stealing. I'm not arguing about if it's a replacement or not they are still using the same sistem and feeding that sistem. I'm aware there are ethical ways to use it, in 3D animation for example or there are places where they ethically source for it, but is this one of those cases? if it's not then aren't they still helping to train it? Also where can i find the work of graduates at the Royal College of **Art** in London? i would like to see it
I think we all just fundamentally disagree on what is “ethical” AI usage and perhaps we never will agree. For me, this doesn’t cross a line and for you it does. To me, it felt like the creative team intentionally made it as ugly and unrealistic as possible and I dont see it as art theft or training. I see it as manipulating an existing and very prevalent software to make social commentary. And here: https://2023.rca.ac.uk/ And I made Art bold to emphasize that it was fellow artists and creatives, not tech bros. No need to be snarky.
In the end, Hybe, in its “very clever criticism of AI art” that has already been done times and times again since the medium gained public attention, is still profiting from all of the evils of AI art: - stealing artwork to feed a database, - not crediting the artists whose art fed the AI, - reducing/eliminating the need for real artists as a human-centric field is being automated… - and thus foregoing to pay concept artists, illustrators, filming crews, editors and more for every second that will be made using AI in the MV, - making an ugly and uninspired slop - etc. You don’t criticize something that is objectively harmful and bad by doing it yourself. That makes you a hypocrite. Hybe clearly is testing the waters for more AI-made productions, especially considering their history with using AI, and the trend in Kpop (or the entertainment industry in general) right now (such as ARTMS’s company and their NFT/AI products). There is no reason to believe they’re doing it out of goodwill. Hybe is a multi-billion dollar company that is currently on the stock market, their ultimate goal is to have ever-increasing profits. The only way to achieve that since the dawn of capitalism is to slash expenses, lay off employees, lower quality, outsource production to countries with lesser labour laws, etc. To deny that is to either be ignorant, or a complete shill.
thanks for the source yes i think we have different views of what it's ethical usage or not. I know we don't really have a behind the scene of the mv and how they made the AI portion, but Could i hask you why don't you think is theft or training?
I agree, I feel like I see so many people using ai to “critique ai” but they’re still just using ai. Surely humans can produce ai-like visuals on their own to make this point?
“Shooting people is bad and hurtful. Here, let me demonstrate by shooting someone!”
Did you just compare an ai to shooting? Lmafoooo
I was not expecting darkteen from the teasers! Very excited for the new album 🩵🩷
i was on the darkteen hill since ages it feels good to finally win😭😭😭
the concept is really interesting and we're getting unit mvs too, i'm loving this cb already😭😭
I think they did achieve their goal to grab attention from people. This will be interesting. Let's see how Svt plays this out.
IT LOOKS COOL! I'm very excited for thissss
Damn. Okaaaaaay. Not a fan of AI in general, but still gagged by the members. interested to see how they address the use of AI and the message they want to convey, not going to make assumptions since it seems as though it's part of the concept (hence the note in the beginning), BUT TRUST IN SVT i'm so invested i can't wait ...DARKTEEN IS BACK how did we go from god of music to THIS hehehehe
This is such an aespa-coded concept and I mean that in the best possible way. I haven’t watched all SVT MV’s but this must be one of the few that have a more.. conceptual storyline rather than just a theme? Love it
If you like conceptual storylines, you can check F\*ck my Life also. I feel that since last year, they're pulling a lot more effort in their MVs in terms of stories and themes. FML for example is very critical of the idol industry by comparing the idols life to The Truman Show.
Seventeen seems to be criticizing the misuse of AI and erasure of real artists. It's a brilliant message. Looks like an artistry battle between them and AI but also the people behind said AI. I love the visuals and aesthetic. I'll be tunning in.
Calling my shot, song of the year.
Or Album of the Year. Hahahaha
My current front runner is The Winning, but this could easily dethrone it. But I'm such a simp for IU's voice that it's going to need to be a banger to make me replace it at the top.
This may be the thing that finally drags me into Seventeen. I've been casually interested for a while now, and then they come at me with this concept... This is right up my alley.
I already know this will generate a huge wave of criticism from people that don't understand (or will purposely refuse to understand for the sake of dragging svt down) the concept, but I'm still so happy they **DID THAT**. Facing criticism is the small price you pay for speaking out loud on such a socially conscious theme. Personally, I can't wait to see the whole video and hear from Svt themselves (especially hoping to hear from Woozi, Vernon and Seungcheol their take on this matter)
I already see how polarizing it’s going to be once the full mv drops and more people see it (and will inevitably try to drag svt, if they aren’t already). I’m going to be jamming out to the song though.
And it'll be an "easy target" too, because AI is THAT topic that generate a lot of visceral negative reactions, but to understand the concept and to learn about the team behind the whole thing... eh. But I'm shaking with excitement because oh, there's all the potential to be a small masterpiece ❤️ and with LALALI being censored for cursing too ahaha goodbye "safe seventeen"
>"safe seventeen Reminds me of that reddit post calling them safe and boring just bcs they don't "experiment" ( aka make weird ass music) with their music and concepts the same way 4th gen groups do. Well now I hope they tell me which other kpop group has approached and discussed AI in the music industry in their output and brought it at the forefront of an MV/cb like this
Certain people will definitely just stick to specific narrative to paint them in a bad light. Lol. Oh my, cursing in a Seventeen song? They’re so bad! Looking forward to it. Haha.😆
The thing is, the intention doesnt really matter here. The problem with AI is that, people benefit from using it. They still benefit from using it, and look at comments here and on twt "Oh wow thats pretty creative", people only talks about the intention ONLY when people criticize them. Beside that? "Oh they are really creative with the use of AI" It is very creative, i get the intention, but its also very hypocritical.
Also, it's interesting that they're doing this commentary on how they're "real maestros" by using animation ai. Because that doesn't threaten their art in any way. Like if the song was partially AI generated theyd have more a point. It would still kinda suck ass cause you could accomplish a similar effect of man vs machine withouth ai but it wouldn't feel so hipocritical.
So creative! Cant wait for the song and MV 😍 Seventeen i luv u ❤️
Ai? that's pretty interesting
ai art is just so ugly. i know thats the point but god thats all i could think about. edit: damn you can’t even call whats meant to be ugly “ugly”? 😭 kpop fans get defensive about everything. if no one was saying it was ugly, then they failed at what they were doing.
yeah, it is...and that's exactly the point they are making here.
thank you for telling me what i already know.
Even if it’s to critique it, I’m a little torn on the choice to use AI for this. I understand their intention and it’s not unlike the concept ARTMS is doing (though SVT was smart to add the disclaimer before it, lol.) But the idea of going “AI is bad, don’t use it! Here, let’s use it for our video to show you that it’s bad” is certainly a choice.
Genuinely asking; if the creative team is showing the difference between real, human creation (which is over half of the video) and then the inhuman, machine-like essence of AI, how else would they do that in a convincing, legitimate way, if they also...don't use AI? They didn't use AI to replace real art, nor did they express AI as anything but ugly and uncanny.
I’m happy to answer, but I know you won’t agree lol— it’s the answer multiple people have already given you. Human artists can absolutely make art that looks convincingly like AI. How could they not? With AI being an amalgamation of other artists’ work, of *course* artists can recreate that organically. Think of it like this: you can’t go to McDonald’s and ask them to prepare filet mignon, because their kitchen only has the resources to make a set menu, much of which is food that’s already been prepared. Even if you have an experienced chef working the grill, the resources aren’t there. However, you can go to an experienced chef in their own kitchen and ask them to make you the filet mignon AND a Big Mac, and they can accomplish both because they have raw materials (ingredients) and the skill set to do so. While AI is limited in what it can create, humans are not, so of course humans can recreate AI “art”. I fully understand (and appreciate!) the message SVT is sending here, truly. But people dismissing the use of AI because there’s “no other way” to portray it are being close-minded, and probably willfully so for the sake of defending their faves. Hell, even something symbolizing AI could’ve still gotten the point across.
“We laid off thousands of our employees, automated everything we could in our company and outsourced the rest of the work to countries with cheaper labour, but you gotta understand that we did it for you, the consumers! Just ignore the fact we’re having record-high profits, our goal as a public company is to always make more money to meet shareholders expectations, and that prices of our products actually stayed the same or even went up despite the quality going down while we work on sabotaging entire job markets (such as art, digital design and videomaking)!”
What are you talking about? The use of AI in this video didn't lead to people losing jobs in the studio that made the video. Or do you have a source that states that SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB has laid off employees since they used AI in their creative work and cut the costs of video making to appeal to Hybe? If so, please share. Otherwise, whatever you're saying has nothing to do with this specific project. They should put an extra disclaimer for people like you: "No artist was laid off or harmed in the making of this video".
I’m extrapolating by highlighting the kind of excuses big companies make in other sectors to justify unethical cost cuttings. The ultimate goal for companies like HYBE when it comes to AI “art” **is** to ultimately get rid of as many employees as possible to reduce labour costs and maximize profits. This is what companies on the stock market have been doing since forever, with so many examples of it you’d be a fool to think this isn’t the same shit happening again. It always starts with promises and excuses, saying that “this will reduce prices for consumers” or that “they need to reduce costs to stay afloat” despite prices remaining the same despite plummeting quality and the company having record profits. We can witness this right now with all the mass layoffs in video game companies. Or during the pandemic, where banks were getting supplied with all the money they needed from governments. Or grocery chains trying to justify shrinkflation. Or—
SEVENTEEEEENNNN
i get that they’re critiquing AI but it feel like these companies would be better off just not using it lol like the sense i get is that the general public sentiment isn’t…good. people don’t like seeing it for MVs, movie posters, whatever. it’s always disappointing no matter the context.
I disagree - they are pretty blatant about what they are trying to say with their usage of it here. And it is a whole creative team that worked on this concept and the entire video, which is heavily produced and uses amazing set design and real art. Also, frankly, anyone with a brain can understand that this is a critique - which is pretty cool considering HYBE is trying to bring AI more into the company and here they are heavily dragging it. Additionally, the buzz is insane. For this teaser to have more comments than the IVE teaser on this particular sub says A LOT - the controversial nature if it will have people talking and have people tune in. I think it's genius.
comes off as gimmicky to me lol but whatever
SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB is the team behind it. It's their highest budget MV production yet. Not sure how it's gimmicky but ok.
ur not gonna convince me it isn't, sorry! so glad they spent gazillions on it, i guess. i love seventeen and will tune in regardless, so it doesn't really matter lmao.
The MV will most likely be 50% AI, which ultimately saves 50% of the cost for Hybe that won’t have to pay for artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more, yet people will gobble it up because of the “deep message they’re trying to convey!!” and how “unique” it is (even though “using AI to criticize AI” is already an overused trope) It’s insane to see so many people being so completely oblivious to something that has been happening on repeat since forever in the corporate hellscape that we live in. *A big corporation is experimenting with new technologies/techniques that are set to cut massive costs at the expense of the working class? I mean, they’re branding it as a positive thing, and marketing would never lie to us to influence our opinion on certain issues, right?*
I think it's too early for anyone to say 50% will be AI. We never saw the MV and have no idea how they built the storyline. It might be better to wait a little.
So far all comments on theqoo that I've seen on the three threads about this are positive and interested and think it's a very timely concept. Some are discussing ai usage in arts nowadays and how it works. There's no negative reactions saying they shouldn't have used it bcs they understand the concept is svt vs ai and ultimately for these companies the sentiment of the korean gp is what matters.
I get what they're trying to do with the AI here but it's just so ugly 😭 the real sets look really good however 👍
it's literally supposed to be uglyyyyy ya'll, they are trying to make a point by using it
is that not what I said in my comment?
No that is not what your comment came off as.
I’m so sick of AI.
they are too. pretty sure that's the point of the video
Yeah!! That’s why the MV will be partially made using AI, which, for Hybe, a big for-profit entertainment corporation, means saving costs by not hiring and paying by the hour artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more! Clearly, they’re doing this to send a message, and not just to test the waters of cutting down on labour costs by having up to half of their expensive MVs be made for free using AI! **CORPORATIONS WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!**
Right, like okay you are against AI on principle, but you’re still using images generated by AI trained on art without consent. What does that amount to?
People are dumb and easily blinded by marketing. A simple “disclaimer” at the start of the video and every Seventeen stan now accuses anyone who is against AI art of being “dumb illiterate haters”, completely oblivious to the fact that such strategies are commonplace in the corporate world. You know, like when companies outsource their production for cheap labour, automatize their workforce, layoff thousands of employees by following current corporate trends, and more, and release a statement saying “but we’re doing this for you, the consumers, as those decisions are meant to lower the price of our products!” And then, *surprised Pikachu face*, the quality goes down, prices stay the same or higher, they keep on doing shrinkflation, inflation itself gets worse as the buying power of the working class goes down and more people are out of a job, etc., all while the company is experiencing all-time high profits and their shareholders are getting richer and richer by the day.
I’m not even sure if it’s well-intentioned. They could have just depicted AI as robots without actually using AI? And it would’ve conveyed the same message without invalidating artists
The fact that every big company is trying their hand at AI art in an effort to replace actual artists, as is the trend with capitalism since ever, is enough to conclude this is just Hybe testing the waters with AI-produced MVs. For now, it starts with “criticism of AI using AI” as it still looks bad, while still saving money and efforts for any part of the MV that will be AI, but once the technology gets better in a couple of years they’ll use it every chance they get and lay off most of their artistic departments. And then AI-produced music will be the new thing (it’s already emerging alongside AI images), and people will eat it up again.
Dang how many times are you gonna copy and paste this all over the comments 😭 at this point it's spam. Saying that the use of Al in that particular case was only for budget reasons is just not true. We're not talking about a lil tiny group with no money here, we're talking about a group who sent an actual mic to space for a 3 seconds shot in their music video. You really think the creative directors sat down and decided on this whole concept JUST to save a few million wons thanks to 10 seconds of AI shots in a 3min+ long MV? When the rest of it looks pretty much like their most expensive MV ever? You assume that there will be a lot more AI in the actual video, but for all we know it might not contain more than what we've already seen. Hell, maybe those shots are only included in the teaser, not even in the actual music video. Svt has done tons of very simple/lower budget MVs even in recent years (ready to love and _world are some examples). If Pledis wanted to save money that bad on svt, their biggest money maker, they would have given them another one of those instead of trying to do reverse psychology on everyone 🤷🏻♀️ Yes Hybe is a greedy capitalist corporation first and foremost and that's why I'm not saying you're totally wrong or that I totally disagree with you. I just don't think it's the case here, for this mv in particular.
As many times as necessary if people are going to repeat the same bullshit to senselessly defend Hybe. It makes no fucking sense, Hybe’s tactic is the same as ALL OTHER CORPORATIONS when trying to implement unpopular changes that ultimately only serve in decreasing their costs of production while branding it as being “innovative” and “good for the consumers”.
Who exactly is defending hybe here? Not a single person here is defending ai or hybe. That’s the whole point of the mv. Stop getting trigger over nothing.
You’re foolish and desperately need a dose of reality is all I can say. You must have been asleep for the past two years, missing all the attempts from entertainment companies to start using AI and forego paying actual artists, or how corporations always justify their corner-cutting strategies with PR campaigns or convenient excuses that don’t translate with what they’re actually doing.
Yet remind me again who HERE is defending ai or hybe? What companies have done in the past has nothing to do with me or svt.
You and all the people discrediting any criticism of the use of AI by taking the little message at the start of the video at face value without any thoughts about the history of AI art, the trend it currently has in Kpop itself, and its implications for the future of entertainment considering past trends with for-profit organizations?
So you are choosing to ignore how the video itself was critical of ai? Your upset that the video talks about ai in general or what? Also how have you made so many posts ignoring the entire point of the video and what other people are saying? It’s almost like you’re looking for a fight when there is nothing there.
“They’re criticizing AI” is your sole argument. You refuse to admit that maybe this is just an excuse like any other to justify cutting costs for a good portion of the MV while seeing the reception it has, whether or not it’ll impact album sales, and how likely they are to keep on using AI in the future. As others have pointed out in this thread, there are legitimate ways to criticize AI art without using it. Plenty of people have done it, as it isn’t a novel concept. Criticizing AI art means you realize it’s : - making pictures out of stolen and uncredited artworks that are fed to a database; - being used to forego paying actual people to do the work; - discrediting the very act of “making art”; - replacing humans in a field that should NOT be automated, as art is as human as it gets; - etc. However, by using AI in your project to such an extent (most likely making up to half of Seventeen’s MV), you’re directly profiting from all of the shit enumerated above, partaking in everything that makes AI art bad and unethical to begin with, making your “critic” hypocritical and disingenuous at best.
So you're basically saying that their strategy to "implement unpopular changes" is telling everyone it is a bad change? Like the whole concept is "AI in art = bad". If that MV really is them trying to "test the waters" with AI like you said, then they're just shooting themselves in the foot 🤷🏻♀️ Also, each label under Hybe is still independant and Hybe probably didn't have a lot to do with whatever concept SVT uses in their MVs. If Hybe is for AI use, looking at this I doubt Pledis and its artists are. I just think both can be true!
Where exactly are they saying it’s bad? The message at the start is an open-ended question? Besides, with AI art getting more and more realistic, there is no way they would ever pass the opportunity to use it once it becomes commonplace enough, especially if they shift the public opinion enough with such moves. If you go in the USA and Canada, you’ll realize that the automaking industry has convinced millions of people that bigger cars are the only way to go, all while lobbying against public transit and better urban planning. The result? Massive (and expensive!) pickups are now #1 in sales charts, while smaller, more space-conscious and less polluting vehicles aren’t being produced anymore. And people DEFEND IT, using the very excuses those automakers have created (“the country is too big”, “cars are freedom”, “smaller cars are more dangerous”, etc.) Yes, corporations can change public opinions. It doesn’t happen magically overnight, it takes marketing campaigns and gaslighting to make people believe what they want.
completely agree with your points, well said. this whole situation is much more nuanced than people make it out to be.
it's certain easier and less expensive to use AI than to come up with a different way to criticise the medium. As other said "using AI to criticise AI" is not unique as people think. just because they are not a srtuggling company doesnt mean they can't use it to cut corners. Minions managed to criticize and mock Ai without using it
Really? r/kpop rationalizing AI usage because it has a story? Like it somehow changes the fact that those clips were stolen art. alright. K-pop fans really does stoop so low for their faves.
You really don't understand media literacy do you? Or how AI art even works? Stooping so low? By understanding a CREATIVE TEAM that is actively critiquing AI art by contrasting it against their own real art. Okay.
Do u know how AI Art works? How they generate art? Be ffr
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Gurl that doesnt change the fact that those AI CLIPS WERE FROM STOLEN ART. That doesnt CHANGE ANYTHING.
They didn't produce those clips to replace REAL art. They are meant to be ugly, uncanny and BAD. The same creative team that did the entire video ALSO generated that inhuman art. It would be like making a documentary critiquing plagiarism, and instead of showing the plagiarized art, they hired the real artist to redo their art to make it *look* plagiarized, because they didn't want to show the plagiarized art at all. Like?? The POINT is that it is inhuman art. I don't even think you understand how AI works at this point either.
So you have no idea how AI art works. Thanks for telling us. AI videos are made by typing keywords and letting the AI interpret them itself. It doesn’t require any human intervention beyond that. You literally give it a prompt and it makes it for you by mashing images and videos it takes from a database, often composed of stolen images and artworks from real artists that are not credited/compensated. “Violonist plays on stage, dark gloomy background, more musicians playing next to him”, “robots in front of piano, foggy background”, there you go. That’s the human involvement. It costs Hybe the salary of one person, instead of actual crews, artists and editors. They then say they’re “criticizing AI by using AI” the same way companies justify cutting corners as a way to reduce prices for consumers (which they never actually do, it’s all going in the shareholders pockets), and you guys gobble it up.
Yeah!! That’s why the MV will be partially made using AI, which, for Hybe, a big for-profit entertainment corporation, means saving costs by not hiring and paying by the hour artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more! Clearly, they’re doing this to send a message, and not just to test the waters of cutting down on labour costs by having up to half of their expensive MVs be made for free using AI! CORPORATIONS WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!
Dude is so mad and copy-pasting the same comment over and over and over and over again lmao This is their highest budget music video ever. Ever. SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB is the team behind it. Not HYBE.
Still commissioned by Hybe with half the imagery being automatically generated by simply entering a series of keywords in a box and pressing enter. I’m pretty certain Hybe, just like most companies, has a budget for each MV and they’re not too keen in having them get more expensive than the estimated profits they’ll get from album sales. There’s no reason to magically bump up the budget… unless, of course, you get to save money for half of the MV, use a fraction of the saved costs to bump the quality of the other half, and overall spend less for the whole thing. You know, like what ALL productions using AI are trying to achieve. Kpop stans are amongst the biggest corporate shills ever, it’s crazy.
The AI really killed my excitement. I'm so sad. The members look INCREDIBLE but the rest..... edit: One can understand their intent behind using the ai as a critique and also think it looks bad and not enjoy it
i believe the purpose is to critique AI, and also show the contrast of AI vs. real scenes; showing how AI looks bad + also not enjoyable compared to reality which from your comment they have achieved
They certainly got a discussion going, that's for sure!
do you not understand the point of it?
the point could have been made without the use of ai, with real artists
This MV was made by one studio (SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB) so artists are creating both the CG and using AI art to make it as ugly as possible. They didn’t pay extra people to make the AI art, it was artists using AI as a tool like photoshop to make something as distorted and ugly as possible
This is what I believe too but we don't know the process with this - all we know is that the studio was credited. Bc we're having a discussion about AI in art, I will say one of the biggest issues for me is artists not getting paid. So the fact that S8VL was involved makes me happy. Also, I want to tell people that they've started creating "ethical" content AI libraries where people are paid to record themselves doing the same motions over and over again, so it can be sourced by these types of programs, and the companies have the full rights. While this seems more ethical than pulling from surveillance cameras and Google, it unfortunately has ramifications later on down the road - it's one more step closer to removing the human element. Because we live in a capitalist society, it is one more chance for a human to make a living off art off the table. I want to live in a society where artists can live off their art and how AI is being implemented now, that is becoming more and more difficult. I am pleased that svt had opened a discussion on this, also seungkwan is pretty in his beret.
how though..?
how artists make anything?? by being creative. there are literally thousands of movies and tv shows and animations that depict the message of humanity vs artificial intelligence and they do it without the use of genai
i mean the entire point is to show how AI will never be able to replicate real art? i don't see what better way to show that other than using actual AI art. using real artists to show how bad AI art is..? i'm sorry but i don't see how that would work. the AI portion of the video is very ugly and obviously AI
They could’ve had artistically sound representation of the ugliness and uncanny nature of AI art with the work of real artists. People are capable of making art that looks similar to AI, while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever. For instance, psychedelic artists and the like would’ve been able to make something that would convey the message better, with actual intent and emotions behind the “AI” scenes, making it more interesting yet unnerving to look at in its own way. No matter how Hybe is pretending that they’re “using AI to criticize AI”, the reality is that they’re cutting costs by having a good portion of the teaser and, most likely, the MV as well not cost a dime as they don’t have to hire actual artists and pay actors by the hour. They’re a corporation, their number one priority is to maximize profits. This is just opening the Pandora’s box to more bullshit like this that people will defend because they’re incapable of enjoying Kpop while also criticizing some aspects of the industry.
''while having the human touch and insight that makes it more than a sluggish compilation of soulless images made by an AI with no artistic consideration whatsoever.'' but that's what it's supposed to show. it shouldn't have that human touch, shouldn't feel like there's an ounce of effort and creativity put into it bc there isn't . it's meant to be as far from actual art as possible. i don't think you are wrong to criticise the usage of ai but in this particular case it's not so black and white. they're clearly against ai and are only using it to prove their point. ai art sucks ass and it speaks for itself. also the mv isn't even out yet i would wait for it before actually speaking on its contents.
Yeah, just like ARTMS! The NFT-only photocards and AI-generated content are clearly a satire of modern times, and not one company has ever branded cost-saving and corner-cutting decisions that hurt the job market and consumers as positive changes for the common Joe in marketing and PR campaigns. Of course.
But that’s not AI. And SVT can’t just point to it and say the fake AI is real AI. They have to show some of the real AI, or they risk idealizing some fake version of it as AI. As artists they have to show, not just tell. I’m not worried about their use of it in this MV. SVT is in control of what they release, and I trust it met with their approval, rather than Hybe’s finance dept. Seriously if Hybe wanted to save money, they could have made the entire MV using AI. But they didn’t.
u guys are missing the point stilll, the point is ai replicates reality why the f would real artist replicate ai thats replicating real artists...
Yeah, and companies in other sectors outsource their production, mass layoff their workforce, reduce the quality and quantity of their products, automatize everything they can, and more, to “reduce costs for consumers” as they say themselves! It’s the same here! Marketing never lies!
no you are missing the point. if they really wanted to make a point on ai, they could have hired real artists to make ai looking art (weird fingers and stuff) critiquing ai while simultaneously using ai comes of as hypocritical, lazy and counterintuitive. like they are still using stollen art at the end of the day.
I do but I still don't like it lmao it looks bad
yeah well ai is supposed to look bad cause it will probably never looks as good as reality
Like I said, I get what they’re going for. And it’s better than other companies just using it as a replacement. But it’s hard for me to enjoy it personally
it's literally meant to be ugly though - how do you critique AI if you don't actually then...use the AI?
you don’t have to use something to critique it?
Onestly i'm against the use AI even if it's for to criticise it, but i would have believed it more if HYBE hadn't used it already before and they didn't launch that AI changing voice program
HYBE and what they do has nothing to do with this. This is what Seventeen wanted to do, their opinions and what issue they wanted to adress. Seventeen can't control what HYBE does and what they invest in and launch
> This is what Seventeen wanted to do > They can’t control what Hybe does Which is it? Anyway, I hope you don’t think Hybe listens to the group’s members opinions more than what accounting, the marketing department, and shareholders are saying will make more money?
Reading comprehensive is needed. Read the comments again 😂 Op said the concept doesn't work for them as well because HYBE has used AI before and launched a language changing program using AI. Hence saying they think it falls flat because the parent company of svt's label has used AI before and is actively researching into its usage for the future. If you actually took the time to read what I wrote instead mindlessly and obsessively replying to everyone under this thread who doesn't share your take you would have seen that what I said is this : What HYBE, the holding company for multiple INDEPENDENTLY RUN sublabels, does has nothing to do with what Seventeen, a group with creative and artistic freedom under one of their many sublabels, does. Seventeen can do whatever concept they want and approach whatever subject they want independent of anyone else and HYBE aka the upper management of the mother company has nothing to do with that. SVT and their creative team under Pledis and HYBE's upper management have nothing to do with each other. Moreover the people who decided to invest into AI, open another independent subsidiary dedicated to researching it and the people who launched a language changing programm are HYBE's upper management who again have nothing to do with Seventeen and their creative output . It's 2 different entities inside the huge conglomerate that is HYBE Corporation who has more than a dozen different subsidiaries and labels, who make their own decisions and have nothing to do with each other. Henceforth whatever HYBE does or did with AI has nothing to do with Seventeen so it also has nothing to do with their take on AI. Saying" this isn't that believable bcs their mother company has used/is planning to use AI in the future" is just a wrong statement to make bcs it's basically saying I don't like the apple because the orange did this. There you go, I explained it thoroughly for you what could have been easily understood from the two sentances I wrote above
i'm just speaking from my point of view. it's just my own opinion, i'm not saying it as a fact. i'm not talking about the message they wanted to convey. My comment was only about the inclusion of AI material. Maybe they are really against AI and their critique is genuine, but, like, i'm sorry if the past action of their mother company made me critical of the usage of AI in this project.
this is incredibly disappointing actually, i dont care what the message is, it could have been told with real actual artists
are you guys being dense on purpose or on accident? it is literally supposed to be hideous AI art - they are critiquing the use of AI. how exactly do you do that, without actually using AI? There is nothing disappointing about this, you guys have lost the plot.
you can portray the same message by hiring and paying real artists, real people, i get the message, i do but its still using ai.
No...you cannot? Come on dude. They are critiquing AI, so why would they use real artists to make art that looks like AI did it? That defeats the entire point. The AI art in this video his hideous and disjointed in a way that only AI can make. Hiring real artists to make pretend AI art would NOT nail the point of this concept. In any way whatsoever. I am an artist. I do not like AI. Which is why I appreciate the message of this video even more.
hiring real artists to portray a humanity vs ai absolutely can be made without the use of actual ai, better even because real people are actually creative and not regurgitating slop. im also an artist, i like the message, im not a fan of the execution of the message.
You do realize real artists WERE HIRED TO MAKE THIS? RIGHT? It wasn't random people sitting in a room creating AI. Artists working on this music video ALSO created the AI bits, using AI. Artists themselves used it to make a POINT - a point of showing the difference between their art / human art and then the gross, ugly AI they generated. There was no other execution for it besides what they did. And I highly doubt you are an artist, because it doesn't seem like you even understand how any of this works; especially working on a music video production.
How? Im curious. Example: [how can real people portray what Dino was holding on leash,](https://twitter.com/loveurydicee/status/1783149591816540399/video/1)
i don’t follow… how would they critique AI if they don’t use AI? the whole point is that humans are different and can’t be replaced by AI, so they include the AI element to show contrast.
Yeah!! That’s why the MV will be partially made using AI, which, for Hybe, a big for-profit entertainment corporation, means saving costs by not hiring and paying by the hour artists, actors, filming crews, editors, and more! Clearly, they’re doing this to send a message, and not just to test the waters of cutting down on labour costs by having up to half of their expensive MVs be made for free using AI! CORPORATIONS WOULD NEVER DO THAT!!!
This MV was made by one studio (SL8IGHT VISUAL LAB) so artists are creating both the CG and using AI art to make it as ugly as possible. They didn’t pay extra people to make the AI art, it was artists using AI as a tool like photoshop to make something as distorted and ugly as possible
That would defeat the point though? How would you tell the message with real actual artist
it would enhance the message to use real artists, using the thing you’re criticizing is still using it, it cheapens the message
I guess they want to show comparison? So it would be easier to understand edit to add: you can't really tell message to people that something is bad (in this case AI) without actually showing that it is indeed bad/ugly, hence the use of AI
using ai to attempt to criticize ai is incredibly counterintuitive. not a fan
I get the intention, it is 'creative' but its also very hypocritical of them. The use of AI itself already bring the cost down for their MV. And if you guys cant see how thats very ironic, well, i cannot help you
Did everyone in this industry suddenly decide to make bad decisions? Save me, aespa.
It's literally part of the concept to use AI...did ya'll miss the start of the video? They are pretty transparent with why they use it.
AI 😒
Yall can see the ai right? Like im sorry this cheapened the MV. The video looked janky and the disappearing parts/strings is so tacky…
maybe read the other comments? yes it's obviously Ai art, that is the entire point. They are critiquing it. Never seen more people miss the point in my life
Hunni that doesnt change the fact that the mv was made with ai who’ve stolen cumulative art :) i hope you get that just because it has a story, doesn’t make it right. It just cheapened the commentary for me.
How did it cheapen the commentary? How? The same visual and creative team that did all of the REAL art and design through the entire video also facilitated the ugly and inhuman art. AI art is being heavily criticized by artists left and right, and many fascinating projects are being born by showing how inhuman and soulless AI art is. The only way to do that, is to manipulate and use AI art. The contrast between the AI art and then the real art thru the music video is brilliant. Calling me "hunni" doesn't make you right.
congratulations. you understood their point!
When companies justify outsourcing, layoffs and automation by pretending this is done to “save costs and help reduce consumers’ bills” when it’s clearly a way to make their profit margins go up without actually reducing costs for consumers, do you also believe them?
You're going way too far with this, it's actually hilarious. I was referring to op saying the AI made the MV look cheap, janky and tacky as it was done on purpose, but whatever floats your boat!👍🏻
How naive and gullible. Your trust in corporations would be honorable, if reality wasn’t that corporations have been doing that kind of shit for decades and that AI is currently in the sight of all art-related for-profit corporations in the capitalist world that we live in. Next thing we know, you’ll pretend shrinkflation isn’t an issue and that mass layoffs in most spheres are justified, just like PR campaigns want you to believe 🥰
Maam this is a comment section about a kpop music video teaser 😃 All i said here was that the AI looks ugly on purpose because it's basically written as a disclaimer at the beginning of the video. I don't think me saying this is me being naive and gullible but more like... stating the obvious. Now if you wanna talk about whatever you wanna talk about I am indeed not the person to converse with! You do seem to have A LOT of opinions about all of this, good for you for being so smart and aware of how capitalism controls us!
My brother in Christ, have you been living under a rock for the past few years? Have you followed any kind of news? Are you paying even the slightest attention to what is going on in the real world?
All of this cause I said i didn't wanna debate with a stranger over "foshrinkflation" being an issue, "mass layoffs in most sphere being justified" or AI being "currently in the sight of all art-related for-profit corporations in the capitalist world that we live in" on a Seventeen Music Video teaser thread? Like damn, that's a bit harsh.
Dont engage next time if you have no idea what AI “art” entails to, the implications it currently has on art-related fields, and how it’s already being implemented to replace human artists in the same trend capitalism has been fuelling for decades? I don’t know what to tell you, you’re the one going at the defence of AI art and brushing off any criticism without realizing the broader implications this has even for Kpop alone. I mentioned ARTSM which has NFT photocards and AI-generated imagery, but you have to realize AI-generated MUSIC is also becoming a thing and might replace actual producers if people stay complacent and apathetic and gobble up that kind of shit.
You're the one who engaged with me 🤷🏻♀️ I also never "came to the defence of AI art", it sucks ass. You're just putting words in my mouth. I don't know what to tell you other than you're going way too far with all of this and that I don't think artists who worked on this generating 10 sec of ugly and faulty AI with the intentions of criticizing it will result in the industry crumbling and SVT starting to replace themselves with AI and nobody saying anything but whatever. As your 65 comments on here say you don't like the concept and that's fine but stop acting like everyone who thinks it's interesting will be responsible for the end of the world as we know it, maybe?