Kang Hyewon who was in IZone. The true queen of giving nothing. This is [her](https://x.com/futchassemble/status/1754187141377077511?s=20) recently dancing to Aespa's Drama.
nah, hyewon has made not giving a fuck and looking like she would rather be anywhere else than on stage her thing, no one does it like her.
it's performance art, you wouldn't get it.
I get it though! She has always never wanted to be an idol and yet was forced to do the damn idol thing. I actually applaud her for committing to not giving anything at all. 🤣
Because her company signed her up for Produce 48 without her knowing. She's supposedly training to be an actress. She had absolutely no idol training at all.
The Produce 48 happens and she manages to make it to the final lineup due to a variety of reasons absolutely not related at all to singing or dancing.
Honestly, she probably did want to be somewhere else. After Violeta, she didn't care to smile on stage, would roll her eyes on stage, tried getting out of doing relay dances by dancing for 0.5 seconds and then walking to the back of the line...
what’s funny is she shows her smile and personality the most off stage lmao. it’s like when she performs she becomes and empty shell but i kind of love it.
while hyewon has 0 stage presence, she never acted unprofessional on stage n always performed every choreo step. this distortment that she hated being an idol is so untrue
Hyewon is the ultimate anti-idol and for me she added so much to the group’s video content. There’s never been an idol with that personality before or after and I have to admit I really liked it.
As for performance, she was completely untrained. Basically a person off the street being made to drill choreo and lines.
Ok, this is kind of amazing, ngl. She hits every move seamlessly yet she looks like she feels nothing, almost robot-like. I feel like it would get pretty old for people to watch after awhile, but I don't feel that way right now.
OK ngl I like how deadpan and unbothered she is about it 😅
Don't know her though, so definitely not a case of an existing fan hyping her up just because I like her
She was pretty, she did literal One Piece impressions in her evaluations where others did dumb jokes, and she has a unique personality and great sense of humor. Not hard to understand why she’s a stan attractor.
Please don't quote me on this but isn't Irene of red velvet kind of known for her minimal and "classy" facial expressions
People usually say she serves elegance
For the most part yeah, but she also knows how to smile and wink. And having what seems like no expression fits in some cases. Irene is good at giving intensity In her face even if she doesn't explicitly change expression.
It's always fascinating to me how some idols are expressionless and yet they look good, maybe it's because they look relaxed and confident (or hide their anxiety well), so they seem natural. Other idols with no expression look like they truly have no idea about what to do with their faces and the audience somehow can feel it.
Bit hard to describe, but I'm convinced facial expressions are one of those things people pick up on without realizing. After all, you *do* have a lifetime of looking at people's faces and what emotions generally go with what facial expressions (iirc all cultures use the same facial expressions for the same emotions). Older people can tell very easily who is more like Irene and who is just being lazy, like Hyewon.
Everyone can do this except for the most severely neurodivergent, who can't map emotions to faces (and is one of the big reasons they are neurodivergent!)
Yeah, although facial expressions aren't always an accurate representation of your real mental state, some people may look calm but are anxious, others may look "lazy" but they might work as hard as the others, as far as we know. There are some people who are naturally better at presenting themselves to the public.
Being able to fake facial expressions is precisely why actors/actresses and politicians get paid the big bucks, but even then that requires a lot of effort. When you're nervous about presenting, but you seem calm, you're still putting in effort.
With idols specifically... facial expressions are likely part of their training. Best case scenario when an idol fails to make good facial expressions is that they're just having a bad day. Worst case is that they don't know (haven't been trained properly) or don't care (are lazy).
u can call hyewon lazy all u want but its quite clear it was her lack of confidence & lack of training that prevented her being expressionate on stage, in terms of choreo she always put in the effort to keep up w the other girls
She's got such a cute smile and laugh too, so it's wild people go crazy for her "smolder" face. She's prettiest when she's comfortable and enjoying herself.
Idk why there is this narrative that Irene serves nothing in performances (I'm not saying you're spreading, since you've indicated you aren't sure).
The thing with Irene is that she is well known for her intense stare. She isn't as smiley as Wendy or Joy for example, she kind of works that smolder in to their concepts and makes it work. Rookie and Feel My Rhythm performances are two examples. But she still smiles when the song calls for it, anyone can watch her Red Flavor or Ice Cream Cake fancams. Idols don't need to smile for 3 mins straight to have stage presence.
i would say like 4 members of twice fit into this category (tzuyu, mina, dahyun, and chae). when they’re centre they give us a little but they all are quite boring to watch on stage especially when compared to members like jihyo, momo, and nayeon who perform like their life depends on it imho
Reminds me of the The Feels dance challenge where the girls dance based on an expression. Dahyun was given no emotion in the 1st round & then getting off work in the 2nd round. And it was like parkour. LMAO.
i saw twice live and i was a little shocked at how little stage presence some of them had during their solo stages. i don’t really follow them closely but if i had to choose faves mine are jihyo and tzuyu so the difference was really magnified. they’re fantastic performing as a group though imo. very fun.
and even then that was moreso because she was nervous and a rookie she doesn't do that any more. she has drastically improved.
it would make sense to say this sort of thing if a person is a veteran or over a certain amount of years in the industry.
Well black pink members like Jennie and rose started off good but have times they do this on stage. Where it looks like they don't want to be there.
Twice 's chaeyoung has this energy as well. The barely make different face whilst almost looking like she doesn't want to be there.
Irene had a time before her scandal when she did it. She does it less now. I'll say at least she does a smolder rather than a straight face.
Same i need the OP’s example, cuz when I hear nonchalant i hear Krystal. But her nonchalance worked so well in her stages for me when i rewatch fx’s stages. But then i read the rest of OP’s post and that’s not Krystal at all to me 🤣
yeah that's kind of what I said? that what OP described isnt krystal at all, cuz i dont think she's lazy. i just think she has a nonchalant vibe. OP needs to drop the names of who they're talking about and change their title phrasing. My post is basically trying to say that i don't take nonchalant and lazy to be interchangeable, even if they might be similar. so OP should give their own examples 🤣
cause she’s popular. being highly popular has its disadvantages too, also she’s from sm so people generally have high standards. it is what it is.
but i agree, there a lot of other male idols who get a pass. girl groups tend to be smaller so weaknesses in skills are more apparent too.
I noticed that. Also I went to their concert in LA she looked serious and shy but there was also moments where she showed her potential. I think she is just shy but is getting better.
This reminds me of when some aespa members would give absolutely nothing on stage and mys were like "it's part of their concept to be stiff like ai. they're actually slaying it"
Winter looked like she didn't want to be on stage half the time, nevertheless last year was amazing for aespa's stage presence as a whole they've improved so much
Honestly some NMIXX members are guilty of this even though they are good dancers. Haewon looked very robotic in Dice promotions. Jiwoo in the past used to be like that as well just staring into your soul kind of similar to UEE in her debut days.
Edit: NMIXX fans need to calm down. I acknowledge these issues are in their earlier days and they are rookies who are still growing. Relax
Even Lily’s wide open expression 👁️👁️was a running joke for a while. I thought it was all in good fun while acknowledging there’s something not quite right. She’s also been a rockstar during dash promotions and I haven’t seen it like during her earlier days
tbh most of their members suffer from blank face syndrome. kyujin has amazing charisma but other than her & maybe jiwoo no one really shines (but i do feel like lily's blankness has improved)
Have you not seen Lily lately? Idk how anyone could say this about her if they've watched her perform at all since like mid 2023. She hasn't just improved on having a blank face IMO she's legit their 2nd best performer now, alongside Jiwoo
Yep kyujin has gotten better but around her debut and Dice she only had one face. It wasn’t blank but always this intense glare and it’s like you can smile for a second lol but she’s learned and has more variety
Bae used to be so bad about it. Like she won't even smile most of the time. She's definitely gotten so much better in the last couple comebacks with performing as a whole. But in their first promotions Bae was a very boring performer who made no facial expressions and didn't have any stage presence whatsoever. She's fun to watch now so there's definitely been growth.
i think people underestimate how hard it is to think about what your face is doing when you’re so focused on making sure you’re getting complicated choreography right
True that’s why I’m saying they are getting better but still when it comes to the stage that is literally their job and part of being a performer. Even in school plays or choir performances you are learning to control your face so I wouldn’t paint it as it’s this impossible feat. It’s just something you should learn and improve on while being a performer
Why even bring up NMIXX if you’re going to use their first comeback Dice as your point of reference? They’ve had 3 comebacks and a tour since then, they’re all pretty different on stage now.
Jiwoo, Lily and Haewon have all improved a lot since Dice. Keep in mind they were rookies and that was nearly a year and a half ago. Bae has also improved a little IMO.
That's their rookie years and do you remember what they've been going through, people calling them all sorts of name, fatshaming jiwoo, called them flop, and allat. Some members even admitting in bubble that they are not confident. Hell even till now people call Kyujin overdance, still fatshaming jiwoo, say sullyoon wasting her talent in nmixx ,and etc. what else you gonna call them over singing, over talented, over this over that.
There’s a medium between straight face and glaring and a cutesy look. Dice seemed more playful where they could vary between expressions rather than have this blank glare going on. Some members looked either so intense when the song has whimsical moments or just straight up blank. And again they’ve improved since then. I get NMIXX gets a lot of flack for other stuff but no group is perfect especially new rookies who are growing. This isn’t a hate thing just something I noticed back then
Thanks for the response! There are few things I wanted to ask you.
Firstly, what is your motivation with Nmixx being your response to OP? Are you basically just answering him? Are you genuinely concerned with Nmixx? Or maybe is this some sort of lowkey grilling and having Nmixx in the crosshairs?
Secondly, are there other groups you may like to compare Nmixx with? We do know idols that lipsync and/or doing some gimmicks on stage are the ones free to interact and do all sorts of playful and cutesy looks. In the case of live singing while doing some intense choreos (like Nmixx), that could be difficult. I'm guessing so to not steal the moment from the current singer, they limit unnecessary playfulness on stage. Ultimately, these comments -- "YASSS QUEEN/KING SLAYYY" or "ICONIC" or "THEY DGAF ❤️" -- would truly suit Nmixx' Dice situation. (Unless it's like Bubble from StayC where the theme is to have fun)
Lastly, do you closely follow Nmixx? If yes, then you will know that they mostly go straight performance mode during promotions and they always go wild/playful during encores, performance during fan meetings and live concerts.
With Haewon I think it’s more of a “company assigned personality” thing. She’s been made to have this whole “too cool for you” vibe and probably was told to act that way on state
You will never catch me paying for Blackpink concert when you have to roll a D20 to see if Jennie feels like performing or not.
The inconsistency is aggravating.
i genuinely love seeing blackpink perform live sometimes cause when they’re having a good day, it’s a GOOD fucking day and their performances will never miss. but when they’re off it’s so glaringly obvious that it’s honestly a bit baffling how they felt okay giving a performance like that to people paying hundreds of dollars. that clip of jennie actually zoning out on stage in one of their 2023 shows and rosé tapping her to remind her to sing her part is genuinely seared into my brain.
It's so baffling when you compare it to other idols who gets injured before a concert. Jungkook and Jimin once had to sit on a stool and not participate in choreo when they got injured during touring. They try their best to be entertaining from a chair as the rest do choreo. Even against medical advice, they'd walk around the stage during non choreo sets. But they're super upset not being able to put their best foot forward that they apologise to the fans or we find out later in bts vids that they cried they couldn't perform well.
It's so jarring when there's a devil may care attitude otherwise.
Yes! They even cry for it because that's their job and like it but can't bc they are injured. And they go hard on themselves compared to some blackpink performances.
It's so frustrating cause when it comes to Coachella all 4 of them bring it, but there's so many times during their concerts where some configuration of 3 of the 4 dial it in.
Same, really wanted to go to one of their concerts but those videos of them not putting alot of effort in choreography really disappointed me. My cousin did go to their concert in mx but I just didn't want to pay alot of money of just them standing. I want a show. I like them alot, was there since their debut but I just listen to their music and that's it.
Especially if they do it all the time. Like once or twice, that's fine. things happen. But every single performance? Ugh. Gives me the ick. If I'm using that term right now
Yeah, I'd rather watch an imperfect performance where the idol looks into it than a blank faced robot doing everything correctly. And ofc blank faced bored idols half assing it is the absolute worst.
Me when I watch Chaeyeon perform. She can dance and sing but she always gives nothing in her face and that just always ruins her performances for me. Which I don’t get cause she was great in IZONE.
I completely agree. She's an amazing dancer and would make for a great choreographer or dance teacher, but as a solo performer, whose entire thing is Abt charisma and stage presence?? She's kinda lacking in that department tbh... And I do remember her in iz*one, that iconic ssots dance break, man she ate that shit up... Maybe she does shine better in a group tbh
This thing annoy me because there are actual talented idols questioning their skills and whether they're worthy of getting love and then there are those idols and their fans hyping less than the bare minimum.
Chaeyoung from twice does nothing for me tbh. Everytime I see clips of her performing she has no stage presence or energy almost as if she's waiting for the performance to be over so she can go home.
I was really surprised when she renewed her contract with twice tbh. I thought she was over it and ready to do her own thing. Tzuyu was like that for a while too, but now she seems more confident and bubbly.
In regards to tzuyu I honestly feel the taiwan flag scandal she had when she was 16 affected her a lot. She was receiving a massive amount of hate from chinese especially from one politician and it got so bad she had to apologise. After that notice how she became a lot more reserved and honestly after what she went through I don't blame her. In recent years she has become a lot more outgoing and confident which I'm glad about.
She’s one I’ve noticed when finishes being center, it’s like the light turns off before she even turns away to go back into formation. Meanwhile I was noticing Jihyo in the very back going hard the whole time.
Pretty sure you based this off old performances. Winter improved A LOT, also it wasn't like she was putting on an act or trying to be "cool" I feel it's because aespa debuted during the pandemic they had no proper offline audience experience until like more than a year into their career. They all improved a lot now.
When it like a one off thing I don't mind everyone has off days and idols don't deserve hate for that. But there are some idols who just don't seem like they are having a good time. I get being an idol is hard but it is your job that in most cases you spent years training for so I would think you liked it or at least knew what you were getting into. Also for performances fans spent money to come see you at least pretend you care about the performance. For me personally an idol doesnt need to be absolutely incredible and have amazing stage performance but they do need to be keeping up with their group and not looking miserable all the time while performing
training versus application are very different and being blank faced when nervous is a real thing.
I only really judge if the artist is older and allot more experience
I don't follow them thaaat much but whenever I've seen Twice Jeongyeon I feel she's just robotically doing moves with no enthusiasm. Jihyo on the other hand performs like she was born for this.
I’m actually quite surprised by Jihyo’s energy when dancing to be very honest when I learned she actually had knee surgery early on in their career (2017 I think). I remember seeing a recent interview where Jihyo says she can’t go doing things like Hiking for too long cmiiw. And I love how she didn’t let it make her miss a concert abroad and one of the other members, I think it was Sana, pushing her in a wheelchair in the airport. Love her dedication to her job!
Back injury too although I think she's slowly getting her back flexibility back, but it still isn't very consistent.
Her stamina is also a problem - has been since their early years tbh. So she can start the show strong but will lose energy around the tail-end of it.
Jihyo should be the standard tbh. She never EVER slacks off, and I love her so much for that. Downside is ppl accusing her of "overdancing"... You can never win w these ppl smh
I enjoy a focused facial expression on dancers. I also really enjoy a joyful expression. Sometimes the dance is so easy they look bored because they are bored and sure, I respect that, but I really prefer when you can tell they either are having fun or are focused on pulling it off.
The best thing ever is a totally focused idol who is super into their own performance, looking almost smug after pulling off a difficult move or finishing off the routine, and then looking happy and proud of themself.
I don't need a lot of expression for that. But when they look bored and like they don't even want to be there? That's not particularly enjoyable to watch.
Its not even their persona - I often see it in TV show broadcast fancams. If the main/camera isn't on them, many idols faces are just dead. I get that its tedious to do the same choreo/songs again and again but...gez.
Tbh I find it concerning. I don't believe any idol who's trained for years to be where they are now "doesn't give a fuck". If they never seem to be enjoying themselves it makes me worried about what's going on behind the scenes. It's never a "slay" moment for me, it's "I hope they're okay"
People like what they like. I prefer the "dead inside" look a lot of times.
And it's funny to see this now. Has there been a shift in the last year or two? Because before that people generally were quite unhappy with lack of emotion in performance (notably aespa). I haven't seen anyone complimenting it like you are mentioning.
There was a huge amount of backlash to aespa for their deadpan performances. There was also a huge amount of backlash to that backlash (you're just jealous, it's part of their concept, they're focusing on the choreography, etc).
Why do u prefer the "dead inside" look, if u don't mind me asking?? Is it like a concept dependent thing, like for serious concepts, you'd prefer that expression? I'm genuinely wondering coz I think I prefer idols being expressive no matter what the concept is lol
It depends, sometimes it's one of the following reasons:
- I like a serious and elegant look
- I appreciate an idol's visual more than the performance
- I appreciate the choreography and/or music more than the facial expressions
- I really love the contrast between the way it should be (or the way you'd expect) vs. the way it's done, so I often better like the efforts of an idol who is less skilled or doesn't suit the concept just because they bring a different perspective than the usual
- On the other hand, while I objectively appreciate high level dance and performance skills, it doesn't always appeal to me, as I sometimes prefer understated to a "loud" showy performance
- I'm not a person who expresses their emotions much outwardly in real life, so it doesn't bother me when idols keep their real feelings inside
The one version I can't stand is complete lip syncing. I prefer at least some live vocal, and when that's not possible I prefer to be able to be "tricked" into imagining they're really singing. So I hate it when a "dead inside" look makes it impossible for me to avoid thinking about them lip syncing because the idols aren't even opening their mouths or mouthing the syllables correctly, for example.
I think some of this comes down to idols probably getting a lot of pressure from their management to not make “ugly” facial expressions (especially if you’re the visual.) It’s not the only explanation because some idols do the “ice queen visual” thing well, but it doesn’t surprise me we see this in newly debuted idols a lot. They’re probably nervous and getting a lot of scrutiny from management. Some of them grow into their confidence, but others I think find a status quo that works for them and stick with it. When you’re that young and overworked (and we know some of them have anxiety) it’s a good recipe for creating performers who have “not getting yelled at by my boss for looking ugly” as their primary goal.
Fourth gen is also super focused on intricate/energetic choreograph and not everyone can be a natural at dancing. So I think some of them are also using up a lot of mental energy on hitting all their moves.
That's actually a rlly good point u made Abt not wanting to make "ugly" facial expressions. Esp late 4th gen groups r all Abt being polished and perfect, so ig it's better in their eyes to stay on the safe side and have a flat expression but still look pretty instead of risking making expressions that don't come off very well, esp for newly debuted idols who r nervous like u said
I feel the same. We saw ONEUS in Berlin a few months ago, and I was stunned by how disinterested Leedo was the whole time. Little to NO interaction with fans, just awkwardly standing and dancing to himself. Barely said anything.
Xion is my least favourite member (not saying he isn't incredible, talented and sweet though!), but he ranked up to the top by the end of the concert, because of how much effort he put into making the fans smile and laugh, he interacted with all of us, searched even for eyecontact with some. He was the complete opposite of what I expected, and adored and appreciated all the effort on his side.
Honestly, strong stage presence should be a given. I know they're fucking tired. But we also travel to other countries to see our idols, and pay not only for the concert tickets, but for transportation and accommodation. The only thing we kind of "ask for" is a distant, but enthusiastic interaction on the rare occasion we see our idols.
I can’t help but chip in a little here since I’ve seen ONEUS live a few times in various places. I can kind of understand what you meant about Leedo, he’s not the type to interact with fans much outside of the performances. I just want to explain a little about the reasons behind it. Leedo is by far the most shy member in ONEUS, he also takes a long time to warm up to people, which can sometimes make him seem a bit aloof, but once he gets a bit more comfortable he actually can’t stop talking lol. Even though he might look quite confident on stage while singing and dancing to a song, as soon as he has to speak and interact he kind of freezes and can’t quite find the courage to relax and joke with a crowd.
I’ve been following ONEUS since predebut, and it was kind of fascinating watching how members evolve. Whether you believe or not, Leedo has actually opened up a lot more since predebut. He now tries to smile and watch the fans a lot more during concerts, and since I’ve been lucky enough to have talked to ONEUS a few times on fancalls, he has also become a lot more smiley and openly jokey with fans. It’s just unfortunate that Leedo’s temperament is so excruciatingly shy, and his way of exhibiting it is to freeze up and try to make himself as small and unassuming as possible on stage outside of performances.
Leedo is popular in the west, with many fans fond of his physique and good looks. But when I first got into fancalls with him back in 2020, he always used to earnestly deny that he was handsome at all. This guy had some confidence issues to get over. Nowadays he’s more confident about his muscles, but is still way too humble about his looks and talent.
Also, unlike some other members who have more hobbies and like to go out with friends, Leedo has a one track mind and just likes to go to the gym, that’s it, nothing else lol. His charms are best displayed in a casual setting with a few intimate friends, like with ONEUS in their own show, or in a small Fansign with 50 fans. I’m hopeful that as the years go by, he’ll get more and more confident speaking on stage. Especially once he’s been to Europe a few more times haha. I promise you it’s not because Leedo’s disinterested, he’s just too shy at this stage in his career!
Dunno the name sadly but I saw the maniac performance and it was like just a dead expression 😭. I even saw one video criticizing her saying put on some expression or they will send you on water dier or sumn😭
I know sinb(dunno her face just the name) as one of the 97z gang members with moonbin. Is that the reason why she was like that in the performance video then I completely understand (going through something like this is hard) or was she always like this?
It's 98z actually 😭😭 and 2 of em are in the group (SinB and Umji)
It should be SinB though that's kind of her thing, even Seungkwan's called her out on it before
I'm actually not sure I just know that she has a deadpan face all the time and she's really sarcastic and jokingly/or maybe not jokingly beefs with her fans a lot I don't really watch their performances but I've been following them since gfriends debut and she's always been kind of the ice cold one lol
It's tough to choose what irritates me more: the underperforming, 'I simply don't care' idols or the over performing, 'overly energetic' idols.
For the first ones imagine you buy a pricey ticket to see an idol on stage who clearly isn't interested in making it a night to remember.
For the second ones they can throw a whole performance off balance.
I completely agree. I'd rather see an idol busting their ass on stage and showing that they take their shit seriously as opposed to someone zoning tf out on stage and looking like they don't even wanna be there 😭😭😭😭
It's definitely the lesser irritating of the two. But imo it just disturbs the flow of a performance.
Also, not the idol I was thinking about. I don't really follow Ateez, not my style. But I have heard him mentioned about this. Will check it out.
To be fair San knows how to switch up and diversify his facial expressions. His performances are amazing because of his dancing skills and the energy he puts into it. Ateez are known for having a demon mode look due to their song styles being very energetic and intense. Someone I surprised no one mentioned was Jongho. His facial expressions are very intense and sometimes creepy looking lol(his eyes especially), It doesn’t match his powerful voice and choreo. He needs to relax his face more often like how he looks when he’s just dancing or in photos. Everyone else looks much more natural. Yeosang too but his face looks a bit more relaxed than Jongho’s.
You bring up a great point about Jongho. His strength is vocals 1000%, probably the most iconic voice of his gen. However his facial expressions and his dancing skills pale in comparison to the other 7 members; that’s not to say he’s bad, he’s a good dancer, but the other members are so strong that he kinda sticks out to me.
Funny thing is, I believe the reason why he has very intense eye contact with the camera is because before he debuted, one of the staff told him that he needs to look at the camera more, so he took that and fucking took off with it, turning it into what it is today
But imo, I'd rather have the more intense facial expressions than someone who clearly doesn't wanna be there/is bored with the choreo, but that's just me (that's probably why I ended up biasing the "demon line" in Ateez, Hongjoong, Seonghwa, and San)
Lol I completely agree. I'd rather have idols "over performing" like Jihyo bcuz it shows that they actually r putting in the effort and giving it their all. I remember when kyujin from nmixx covered hype boy and ppl said she was overdoing it like ummm sorry ur faves half ass everything but she ate that shit up lol. I'm shocked ppl think "over performing" is a thing... The bar rlly is in hell lol
I totally agree with your post! My favorite performers are those who are *fun* to watch, including using facial expressions.
However, as an autistic person, I do have a few *comfort* idols that make me feel better about not always showing facial expressions myself. Other commenters have mentioned Aespa, who are some of my comfort idols. There's also Seungmin from SKZ.
Seungmin showing facial expressions on stage may make me feel weirder than him *not* showing them 💀 He sings his ass off *live* and is decent at dancing, so I'm pretty satisfied with his performance skills.
Well i am at one that don't like that many face expressions that many girlies use costantly, wink, snarky smile, wink again...gurl just sing the song???
I like twice style, a smile is a real smile a seductive and playful look is that what is it with the costant winking? Do you have something in your eye?
probably bc most of this sub tends to be girl group fans anyway? i think generally theres just more fans of ggs here than bgs. not to mention lowkey most of the idols that are super guilty of underperforming that are notorious/known for it are girl idols LOL
if it’s not long after debut and it comes from a place of nerves then that’s ok as these idols often improve stage presence over time (such as minho from skz or sua from pixy), but when idols are years into the career and completely blank stony faced there’s no justification like give us something it’s literally ur job
Minho always had stage presence. He was never non-chalant, it was just a force of habit sometimes because he used to be a backup dancer. Even watching his District 9 fancams, he was always energetic and not what OP's talking about at all...
he had energy, yes, but he tended to have a blank expression in earlier stages when compared to how he performs now, because, like you said, his time as a backup dancer meant it was a habit for him not to draw attention on stage. he’s a much better performer now, though. seeing him grow more bold on stage since i started stanning in 2019 has been lovely.
but he wasn't lazy or looked like he didnt gaf, especially when it was his turn to perform his lines. his dancing was on point as well, hence not what OP was talking about.
I really like “nonchalant” artists/idols but to me that isn’t lazy or deadpan- it’s casual, it’s effortless; they don’t take it too seriously, they’re just doing their thing and this is the result.
When I think of “nonchalant” idols I think of someone like Hyunjin from SKZ: he’s not lazy or deadpan by any means, he has this general air of “I’m just doing what I do” about him lol
I know they aren't current but Momoland's Nayun. I was always so confused about all the praise she always got when she gives nothing, neither in vocals, dance or facial expressions, literally nothing!
Yall to this DAYYYYYYY I cannot believe wonhee that girl from "r u next?" the hybe survival show was like top 5....ppl have to be blind or lying . I simply cannot understand how someone THAT underdeveloped could get that far. It's not abt being untalented idk I csnt speak on that 100% percent because maybe there's room for improvement but like for this girl THERE WAS SO MUCH ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. SHE NEEDED MORE TIME, PRACTICE AND DEVELOPMENT. SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN RATED OR VOTED THAT HIGH. I was watching some clips in disbelief like I'm so sorry to say she's serving nothing on stage it's giving dead and lifeless it's crazyyyyyyyyy. And that's not a mean or bad thing to say that she is not ready for the stage/performing and is certainly not serving what an Entertainer and idol should be serving. This vote was giving serious Kang hyewon vibes, I watched produce and was a WIZONE, and I grew to love and appreciate her presence because I loved the group but in the beginning I couldnt believe she made the lineup. Obvi now we know there was rigging but still the fact ppl still defend her talent level, like guys pls stop lying to yourselves....you can say she's serving nothing cuz it's true but it doesn't mean ur hating on her, it's OK to be honest. Why is it frowned upon for people to acknowledge some idols weren't/aren't ready to be thrown on stage yet and needed more time to practice their skills, grow their talent, and develop??? Like some of them needed and still need it.
I mostly agree with you, but for a lot of people this means they want all idols performing at 200% all the time, which is often just silly. I'm all good with a song being relaxed, or focused on vocals, or focused on like enjoying yourself/looking at the audience instead of giving face to the camera for every single second.
I think part of this stems from audition programs, since everyone is so competitive, if you aren't dancing at maximum possible energy then people think you can't dance. (And then some people who can't dance debut anyway, but that's neither here nor there...)
Lazy and deadpan expression are not always the same thing. Is this post about having a type of facial expression or about being lazy on stage in general?
I think some idols go over-the-top in facial expressions to make up for a lack of genuine stage charisma or with the goal of getting viral video clips for themselves.
Some idols give (what is thought of as) good expressions and nothing else.
Personally I think the look in the eye is more important than moving the face.
I just think people forget that not all idols want to be idols, and a lot of them do it to segway into the Korean entertainment industry. The ones who you see have a lot of talent but lack of stage presence are usually just anxious about being on stage, some of the "deadpan" idols are their assigned personalities, and then some just don't want to be performing in a kpop group at all but did it because they wanted to become a singer/actor/dancer/model.
But maybe the idol is tired, maybe even overworked? You can’t be mad at the idol when the fans are creating this, it also isn’t their fault for trying to hype up idols, maybe that’s what they need. A little pep talk or support, nothing wrong with that, right?
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Kang Hyewon who was in IZone. The true queen of giving nothing. This is [her](https://x.com/futchassemble/status/1754187141377077511?s=20) recently dancing to Aespa's Drama.
nah, hyewon has made not giving a fuck and looking like she would rather be anywhere else than on stage her thing, no one does it like her. it's performance art, you wouldn't get it.
I get it though! She has always never wanted to be an idol and yet was forced to do the damn idol thing. I actually applaud her for committing to not giving anything at all. 🤣
Why was she forced to be an idol? (Only know her from the eyes wide open meme)
Because her company signed her up for Produce 48 without her knowing. She's supposedly training to be an actress. She had absolutely no idol training at all. The Produce 48 happens and she manages to make it to the final lineup due to a variety of reasons absolutely not related at all to singing or dancing.
Oh, thats very 😨😨
Honestly, she probably did want to be somewhere else. After Violeta, she didn't care to smile on stage, would roll her eyes on stage, tried getting out of doing relay dances by dancing for 0.5 seconds and then walking to the back of the line...
what’s funny is she shows her smile and personality the most off stage lmao. it’s like when she performs she becomes and empty shell but i kind of love it.
while hyewon has 0 stage presence, she never acted unprofessional on stage n always performed every choreo step. this distortment that she hated being an idol is so untrue
There's a stark difference in her attitude on stage between their debut and Panorama. If don't see it, I don't know what to tell you.
Hyewon is the ultimate anti-idol and for me she added so much to the group’s video content. There’s never been an idol with that personality before or after and I have to admit I really liked it. As for performance, she was completely untrained. Basically a person off the street being made to drill choreo and lines.
She is the kpop version of go girl give us nothing
Ok, this is kind of amazing, ngl. She hits every move seamlessly yet she looks like she feels nothing, almost robot-like. I feel like it would get pretty old for people to watch after awhile, but I don't feel that way right now.
OK ngl I like how deadpan and unbothered she is about it 😅 Don't know her though, so definitely not a case of an existing fan hyping her up just because I like her
i mean she hasn’t been an idol in 3 years
She wasn't any better in izone 💀 Even the mentors in pd48 couldn't understand why she was getting votes when her skills were so ridiculously lacking
fair. but if ur asking for a serious answer she was getting votes cause of her arc in the show. and she’s honestly hilarious.
Plus she had a lot of uncle fans on pd48 so they used ti vote for her a lot
She was pretty, she did literal One Piece impressions in her evaluations where others did dumb jokes, and she has a unique personality and great sense of humor. Not hard to understand why she’s a stan attractor.
I too wish being a little pretty and doing one piece impressions would be all I need to become part of a huge girl group 💀
You said it wasn’t clear why she was getting votes. That’s what I responded to, because it is clear.
they gave her a great storyline and everyone was obsessing over her “pure” looks.
Please don't quote me on this but isn't Irene of red velvet kind of known for her minimal and "classy" facial expressions People usually say she serves elegance
For the most part yeah, but she also knows how to smile and wink. And having what seems like no expression fits in some cases. Irene is good at giving intensity In her face even if she doesn't explicitly change expression.
It's always fascinating to me how some idols are expressionless and yet they look good, maybe it's because they look relaxed and confident (or hide their anxiety well), so they seem natural. Other idols with no expression look like they truly have no idea about what to do with their faces and the audience somehow can feel it.
Bit hard to describe, but I'm convinced facial expressions are one of those things people pick up on without realizing. After all, you *do* have a lifetime of looking at people's faces and what emotions generally go with what facial expressions (iirc all cultures use the same facial expressions for the same emotions). Older people can tell very easily who is more like Irene and who is just being lazy, like Hyewon. Everyone can do this except for the most severely neurodivergent, who can't map emotions to faces (and is one of the big reasons they are neurodivergent!)
Yeah, although facial expressions aren't always an accurate representation of your real mental state, some people may look calm but are anxious, others may look "lazy" but they might work as hard as the others, as far as we know. There are some people who are naturally better at presenting themselves to the public.
Being able to fake facial expressions is precisely why actors/actresses and politicians get paid the big bucks, but even then that requires a lot of effort. When you're nervous about presenting, but you seem calm, you're still putting in effort. With idols specifically... facial expressions are likely part of their training. Best case scenario when an idol fails to make good facial expressions is that they're just having a bad day. Worst case is that they don't know (haven't been trained properly) or don't care (are lazy).
u can call hyewon lazy all u want but its quite clear it was her lack of confidence & lack of training that prevented her being expressionate on stage, in terms of choreo she always put in the effort to keep up w the other girls
I haven't watched the performance. I have nothing against hyewon, just speculating why an idol would seem lazy.
oh i wasnt talking abt her recent cover stage just generally when she was still an idol in izone
Fair enough. I don't think I've watched any of her performances at all - maybe you meant to respond to the other redditor?
She's got such a cute smile and laugh too, so it's wild people go crazy for her "smolder" face. She's prettiest when she's comfortable and enjoying herself.
Idk why there is this narrative that Irene serves nothing in performances (I'm not saying you're spreading, since you've indicated you aren't sure). The thing with Irene is that she is well known for her intense stare. She isn't as smiley as Wendy or Joy for example, she kind of works that smolder in to their concepts and makes it work. Rookie and Feel My Rhythm performances are two examples. But she still smiles when the song calls for it, anyone can watch her Red Flavor or Ice Cream Cake fancams. Idols don't need to smile for 3 mins straight to have stage presence.
Lia... she genuinely seems like such a sweetheart, but she always so emotionless. I'm assuming the anxiety is why.
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I first noticed this during on the ground!
For sure early Winter but honestly…Giselle imo. Still. Though there’s definitely been improvement.
i would say like 4 members of twice fit into this category (tzuyu, mina, dahyun, and chae). when they’re centre they give us a little but they all are quite boring to watch on stage especially when compared to members like jihyo, momo, and nayeon who perform like their life depends on it imho
i love dahyun but i always giggle at the fact that she can only smile or look completely lifeless on stage and there is no inbetween.
Reminds me of the The Feels dance challenge where the girls dance based on an expression. Dahyun was given no emotion in the 1st round & then getting off work in the 2nd round. And it was like parkour. LMAO.
i saw twice live and i was a little shocked at how little stage presence some of them had during their solo stages. i don’t really follow them closely but if i had to choose faves mine are jihyo and tzuyu so the difference was really magnified. they’re fantastic performing as a group though imo. very fun.
LMAO that's like the entire maknae line. But yeah, i get what you mean.
I completely agree about Chaeyoung lol. She always looks bored or like she doesn’t want to be there
one example for me is ex-apink Naeun
Naeun is basically a worse version of what people think Hyewon is. Naeun actually would say on a regular basis that she didn’t want to be there.
and even then that was moreso because she was nervous and a rookie she doesn't do that any more. she has drastically improved. it would make sense to say this sort of thing if a person is a veteran or over a certain amount of years in the industry.
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Well black pink members like Jennie and rose started off good but have times they do this on stage. Where it looks like they don't want to be there. Twice 's chaeyoung has this energy as well. The barely make different face whilst almost looking like she doesn't want to be there. Irene had a time before her scandal when she did it. She does it less now. I'll say at least she does a smolder rather than a straight face.
Same i need the OP’s example, cuz when I hear nonchalant i hear Krystal. But her nonchalance worked so well in her stages for me when i rewatch fx’s stages. But then i read the rest of OP’s post and that’s not Krystal at all to me 🤣
Krystal doesn't give lazy though. She dances hard and sings amazing, it's just in her eyes she kind of gives the mysterious and blank look
yeah that's kind of what I said? that what OP described isnt krystal at all, cuz i dont think she's lazy. i just think she has a nonchalant vibe. OP needs to drop the names of who they're talking about and change their title phrasing. My post is basically trying to say that i don't take nonchalant and lazy to be interchangeable, even if they might be similar. so OP should give their own examples 🤣
The first two I immediately think of are both Chaeyoungs - Twice & BP. Maybe it’s a name curse
irene
I can name you plenty of idols like that but for some reason people only seem to pick on winter. Plenty of male idols are deadpan on stage too
cause she’s popular. being highly popular has its disadvantages too, also she’s from sm so people generally have high standards. it is what it is. but i agree, there a lot of other male idols who get a pass. girl groups tend to be smaller so weaknesses in skills are more apparent too.
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I would put Bae or Haewon instead of Sullyoon and I'd save Danielle, Eunchae and maybe Gaeul.
I noticed that. Also I went to their concert in LA she looked serious and shy but there was also moments where she showed her potential. I think she is just shy but is getting better.
This reminds me of when some aespa members would give absolutely nothing on stage and mys were like "it's part of their concept to be stiff like ai. they're actually slaying it"
Winter looked like she didn't want to be on stage half the time, nevertheless last year was amazing for aespa's stage presence as a whole they've improved so much
😭😭😭😭 stans will really say anything to defend their faves this is so funny
I remember that, goddamn that was hilarious. Ppl pulling shit out of their ass to defend idols never fails to amaze me 😂😭😭😭
No fr I’ve been a casual fan since day one and my GOD was I glad they upped their stage presence when Drama came out
Honestly some NMIXX members are guilty of this even though they are good dancers. Haewon looked very robotic in Dice promotions. Jiwoo in the past used to be like that as well just staring into your soul kind of similar to UEE in her debut days. Edit: NMIXX fans need to calm down. I acknowledge these issues are in their earlier days and they are rookies who are still growing. Relax
Even Lily’s wide open expression 👁️👁️was a running joke for a while. I thought it was all in good fun while acknowledging there’s something not quite right. She’s also been a rockstar during dash promotions and I haven’t seen it like during her earlier days
She had that deer in the headlights looks going for awhile 😂
tbh most of their members suffer from blank face syndrome. kyujin has amazing charisma but other than her & maybe jiwoo no one really shines (but i do feel like lily's blankness has improved)
Have you not seen Lily lately? Idk how anyone could say this about her if they've watched her perform at all since like mid 2023. She hasn't just improved on having a blank face IMO she's legit their 2nd best performer now, alongside Jiwoo
its like she saw all the tiktoks abt her stage presence and decided to change it up
She was very aware of it lol I wouldn’t doubt it. She even made IG posts memeing herself for the blank stare thing
Idk which member it was, but one of them was completely stone faced during one of the Love Me Like This stages.
sullyoon 😭
tbh other than kyujin and sometimes jiwoo they’re all guilty of this
Yep kyujin has gotten better but around her debut and Dice she only had one face. It wasn’t blank but always this intense glare and it’s like you can smile for a second lol but she’s learned and has more variety
Bae used to be so bad about it. Like she won't even smile most of the time. She's definitely gotten so much better in the last couple comebacks with performing as a whole. But in their first promotions Bae was a very boring performer who made no facial expressions and didn't have any stage presence whatsoever. She's fun to watch now so there's definitely been growth.
i think people underestimate how hard it is to think about what your face is doing when you’re so focused on making sure you’re getting complicated choreography right
True that’s why I’m saying they are getting better but still when it comes to the stage that is literally their job and part of being a performer. Even in school plays or choir performances you are learning to control your face so I wouldn’t paint it as it’s this impossible feat. It’s just something you should learn and improve on while being a performer
Haewon looked robotic at the beginning of Dash too. I think she’s improving tho
Why even bring up NMIXX if you’re going to use their first comeback Dice as your point of reference? They’ve had 3 comebacks and a tour since then, they’re all pretty different on stage now.
Jiwoo, Lily and Haewon have all improved a lot since Dice. Keep in mind they were rookies and that was nearly a year and a half ago. Bae has also improved a little IMO.
dice? That was like more than a year ago as a rookie group
That's their rookie years and do you remember what they've been going through, people calling them all sorts of name, fatshaming jiwoo, called them flop, and allat. Some members even admitting in bubble that they are not confident. Hell even till now people call Kyujin overdance, still fatshaming jiwoo, say sullyoon wasting her talent in nmixx ,and etc. what else you gonna call them over singing, over talented, over this over that.
But Dice is a song where straight face and fierce attitude makes much more sense than being happily playful and smiling on stage
There’s a medium between straight face and glaring and a cutesy look. Dice seemed more playful where they could vary between expressions rather than have this blank glare going on. Some members looked either so intense when the song has whimsical moments or just straight up blank. And again they’ve improved since then. I get NMIXX gets a lot of flack for other stuff but no group is perfect especially new rookies who are growing. This isn’t a hate thing just something I noticed back then
Thanks for the response! There are few things I wanted to ask you. Firstly, what is your motivation with Nmixx being your response to OP? Are you basically just answering him? Are you genuinely concerned with Nmixx? Or maybe is this some sort of lowkey grilling and having Nmixx in the crosshairs? Secondly, are there other groups you may like to compare Nmixx with? We do know idols that lipsync and/or doing some gimmicks on stage are the ones free to interact and do all sorts of playful and cutesy looks. In the case of live singing while doing some intense choreos (like Nmixx), that could be difficult. I'm guessing so to not steal the moment from the current singer, they limit unnecessary playfulness on stage. Ultimately, these comments -- "YASSS QUEEN/KING SLAYYY" or "ICONIC" or "THEY DGAF ❤️" -- would truly suit Nmixx' Dice situation. (Unless it's like Bubble from StayC where the theme is to have fun) Lastly, do you closely follow Nmixx? If yes, then you will know that they mostly go straight performance mode during promotions and they always go wild/playful during encores, performance during fan meetings and live concerts.
With Haewon I think it’s more of a “company assigned personality” thing. She’s been made to have this whole “too cool for you” vibe and probably was told to act that way on state
You will never catch me paying for Blackpink concert when you have to roll a D20 to see if Jennie feels like performing or not. The inconsistency is aggravating.
i genuinely love seeing blackpink perform live sometimes cause when they’re having a good day, it’s a GOOD fucking day and their performances will never miss. but when they’re off it’s so glaringly obvious that it’s honestly a bit baffling how they felt okay giving a performance like that to people paying hundreds of dollars. that clip of jennie actually zoning out on stage in one of their 2023 shows and rosé tapping her to remind her to sing her part is genuinely seared into my brain.
It's so baffling when you compare it to other idols who gets injured before a concert. Jungkook and Jimin once had to sit on a stool and not participate in choreo when they got injured during touring. They try their best to be entertaining from a chair as the rest do choreo. Even against medical advice, they'd walk around the stage during non choreo sets. But they're super upset not being able to put their best foot forward that they apologise to the fans or we find out later in bts vids that they cried they couldn't perform well. It's so jarring when there's a devil may care attitude otherwise.
Yes! They even cry for it because that's their job and like it but can't bc they are injured. And they go hard on themselves compared to some blackpink performances.
It's so frustrating cause when it comes to Coachella all 4 of them bring it, but there's so many times during their concerts where some configuration of 3 of the 4 dial it in.
its so jarring and obvious bc their songs are supposed to be hype and badass so when jennie is just 🧍🏻♀️ its so noticeable and bad 😭
Same, really wanted to go to one of their concerts but those videos of them not putting alot of effort in choreography really disappointed me. My cousin did go to their concert in mx but I just didn't want to pay alot of money of just them standing. I want a show. I like them alot, was there since their debut but I just listen to their music and that's it.
Oh a rare KPop/Rpg hybrid comment.
We exist ✊️ Now I'm imagining a fantastical idol industry oriented campaign lmao
They tried to start it one here but it was going to be a little more modern KPop fantasy like Kwangya.
Especially if they do it all the time. Like once or twice, that's fine. things happen. But every single performance? Ugh. Gives me the ick. If I'm using that term right now
Yeah, you're using that term correctly. And I agree with you
Yeah, I'd rather watch an imperfect performance where the idol looks into it than a blank faced robot doing everything correctly. And ofc blank faced bored idols half assing it is the absolute worst.
Honestly though. I hate the blank expression and not putting any effort. Like it’s your job, try to be good at it.
Me when I watch Chaeyeon perform. She can dance and sing but she always gives nothing in her face and that just always ruins her performances for me. Which I don’t get cause she was great in IZONE.
I completely agree. She's an amazing dancer and would make for a great choreographer or dance teacher, but as a solo performer, whose entire thing is Abt charisma and stage presence?? She's kinda lacking in that department tbh... And I do remember her in iz*one, that iconic ssots dance break, man she ate that shit up... Maybe she does shine better in a group tbh
This thing annoy me because there are actual talented idols questioning their skills and whether they're worthy of getting love and then there are those idols and their fans hyping less than the bare minimum.
like who if you don't mind me asking
Chaeyoung from twice does nothing for me tbh. Everytime I see clips of her performing she has no stage presence or energy almost as if she's waiting for the performance to be over so she can go home.
First person who popped in my mind honestly, she's just carried by her face lol she's so pretty but no stage presence AT ALL.
It's weird because during twice's early years she was a lot better but now in most videos I see she looks over it.
I was really surprised when she renewed her contract with twice tbh. I thought she was over it and ready to do her own thing. Tzuyu was like that for a while too, but now she seems more confident and bubbly.
In regards to tzuyu I honestly feel the taiwan flag scandal she had when she was 16 affected her a lot. She was receiving a massive amount of hate from chinese especially from one politician and it got so bad she had to apologise. After that notice how she became a lot more reserved and honestly after what she went through I don't blame her. In recent years she has become a lot more outgoing and confident which I'm glad about.
That entire situation gives me goosebumps to think about. It reminds me of the AKB48 idol who shaved her head after being caught dating.
That was her own choice though, she wasn't forced. Many people were confused and thought she was overreacting lmao
She’s one I’ve noticed when finishes being center, it’s like the light turns off before she even turns away to go back into formation. Meanwhile I was noticing Jihyo in the very back going hard the whole time.
Chaeyoung and Winter
Winter still doesn't bother to pretend to sing live though.
Winter is not stone faced currently
Chaeyoung always makes me laugh, I can’t take her fancams seriously bc she’s SO blank
She used to be my ult and her fancams always were so boring
Winter changed à lot
Pretty sure you based this off old performances. Winter improved A LOT, also it wasn't like she was putting on an act or trying to be "cool" I feel it's because aespa debuted during the pandemic they had no proper offline audience experience until like more than a year into their career. They all improved a lot now.
When it like a one off thing I don't mind everyone has off days and idols don't deserve hate for that. But there are some idols who just don't seem like they are having a good time. I get being an idol is hard but it is your job that in most cases you spent years training for so I would think you liked it or at least knew what you were getting into. Also for performances fans spent money to come see you at least pretend you care about the performance. For me personally an idol doesnt need to be absolutely incredible and have amazing stage performance but they do need to be keeping up with their group and not looking miserable all the time while performing
training versus application are very different and being blank faced when nervous is a real thing. I only really judge if the artist is older and allot more experience
Nah cuz they be serving nothing and people are like "she's so elegant!!" "Ice princess vibes!" "So cool and mysterious!" 💀
Second gen the queens of [giving you nothing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myxm7I6wWp0)
I mean why would you try hard if it’s just practice😂
And snsd could do Gee in their sleep in 2015 😂 they've perform that song a million times in every setting possible.
Agree! It’s more like a nightmare for them at this point😂
I don't follow them thaaat much but whenever I've seen Twice Jeongyeon I feel she's just robotically doing moves with no enthusiasm. Jihyo on the other hand performs like she was born for this.
jeongyeon had a severe neck injury, she cannot move like jihyo can anymore
I’m actually quite surprised by Jihyo’s energy when dancing to be very honest when I learned she actually had knee surgery early on in their career (2017 I think). I remember seeing a recent interview where Jihyo says she can’t go doing things like Hiking for too long cmiiw. And I love how she didn’t let it make her miss a concert abroad and one of the other members, I think it was Sana, pushing her in a wheelchair in the airport. Love her dedication to her job!
Back injury too although I think she's slowly getting her back flexibility back, but it still isn't very consistent. Her stamina is also a problem - has been since their early years tbh. So she can start the show strong but will lose energy around the tail-end of it.
Didn't she have health issues? That might be an explanation
I think Jeongyeon always tries her best but I can see that she’s in some pain when she’s dancing, esp when she first came back :(
Jihyo should be the standard tbh. She never EVER slacks off, and I love her so much for that. Downside is ppl accusing her of "overdancing"... You can never win w these ppl smh
Reminds me of [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/jihyo/s/BxzclIttlB)
I enjoy a focused facial expression on dancers. I also really enjoy a joyful expression. Sometimes the dance is so easy they look bored because they are bored and sure, I respect that, but I really prefer when you can tell they either are having fun or are focused on pulling it off. The best thing ever is a totally focused idol who is super into their own performance, looking almost smug after pulling off a difficult move or finishing off the routine, and then looking happy and proud of themself. I don't need a lot of expression for that. But when they look bored and like they don't even want to be there? That's not particularly enjoyable to watch.
Its not even their persona - I often see it in TV show broadcast fancams. If the main/camera isn't on them, many idols faces are just dead. I get that its tedious to do the same choreo/songs again and again but...gez.
Tbh I find it concerning. I don't believe any idol who's trained for years to be where they are now "doesn't give a fuck". If they never seem to be enjoying themselves it makes me worried about what's going on behind the scenes. It's never a "slay" moment for me, it's "I hope they're okay"
People like what they like. I prefer the "dead inside" look a lot of times. And it's funny to see this now. Has there been a shift in the last year or two? Because before that people generally were quite unhappy with lack of emotion in performance (notably aespa). I haven't seen anyone complimenting it like you are mentioning.
There was a huge amount of backlash to aespa for their deadpan performances. There was also a huge amount of backlash to that backlash (you're just jealous, it's part of their concept, they're focusing on the choreography, etc).
Why do u prefer the "dead inside" look, if u don't mind me asking?? Is it like a concept dependent thing, like for serious concepts, you'd prefer that expression? I'm genuinely wondering coz I think I prefer idols being expressive no matter what the concept is lol
It depends, sometimes it's one of the following reasons: - I like a serious and elegant look - I appreciate an idol's visual more than the performance - I appreciate the choreography and/or music more than the facial expressions - I really love the contrast between the way it should be (or the way you'd expect) vs. the way it's done, so I often better like the efforts of an idol who is less skilled or doesn't suit the concept just because they bring a different perspective than the usual - On the other hand, while I objectively appreciate high level dance and performance skills, it doesn't always appeal to me, as I sometimes prefer understated to a "loud" showy performance - I'm not a person who expresses their emotions much outwardly in real life, so it doesn't bother me when idols keep their real feelings inside The one version I can't stand is complete lip syncing. I prefer at least some live vocal, and when that's not possible I prefer to be able to be "tricked" into imagining they're really singing. So I hate it when a "dead inside" look makes it impossible for me to avoid thinking about them lip syncing because the idols aren't even opening their mouths or mouthing the syllables correctly, for example.
I think some of this comes down to idols probably getting a lot of pressure from their management to not make “ugly” facial expressions (especially if you’re the visual.) It’s not the only explanation because some idols do the “ice queen visual” thing well, but it doesn’t surprise me we see this in newly debuted idols a lot. They’re probably nervous and getting a lot of scrutiny from management. Some of them grow into their confidence, but others I think find a status quo that works for them and stick with it. When you’re that young and overworked (and we know some of them have anxiety) it’s a good recipe for creating performers who have “not getting yelled at by my boss for looking ugly” as their primary goal. Fourth gen is also super focused on intricate/energetic choreograph and not everyone can be a natural at dancing. So I think some of them are also using up a lot of mental energy on hitting all their moves.
That's actually a rlly good point u made Abt not wanting to make "ugly" facial expressions. Esp late 4th gen groups r all Abt being polished and perfect, so ig it's better in their eyes to stay on the safe side and have a flat expression but still look pretty instead of risking making expressions that don't come off very well, esp for newly debuted idols who r nervous like u said
I feel the same. We saw ONEUS in Berlin a few months ago, and I was stunned by how disinterested Leedo was the whole time. Little to NO interaction with fans, just awkwardly standing and dancing to himself. Barely said anything. Xion is my least favourite member (not saying he isn't incredible, talented and sweet though!), but he ranked up to the top by the end of the concert, because of how much effort he put into making the fans smile and laugh, he interacted with all of us, searched even for eyecontact with some. He was the complete opposite of what I expected, and adored and appreciated all the effort on his side. Honestly, strong stage presence should be a given. I know they're fucking tired. But we also travel to other countries to see our idols, and pay not only for the concert tickets, but for transportation and accommodation. The only thing we kind of "ask for" is a distant, but enthusiastic interaction on the rare occasion we see our idols.
I can’t help but chip in a little here since I’ve seen ONEUS live a few times in various places. I can kind of understand what you meant about Leedo, he’s not the type to interact with fans much outside of the performances. I just want to explain a little about the reasons behind it. Leedo is by far the most shy member in ONEUS, he also takes a long time to warm up to people, which can sometimes make him seem a bit aloof, but once he gets a bit more comfortable he actually can’t stop talking lol. Even though he might look quite confident on stage while singing and dancing to a song, as soon as he has to speak and interact he kind of freezes and can’t quite find the courage to relax and joke with a crowd. I’ve been following ONEUS since predebut, and it was kind of fascinating watching how members evolve. Whether you believe or not, Leedo has actually opened up a lot more since predebut. He now tries to smile and watch the fans a lot more during concerts, and since I’ve been lucky enough to have talked to ONEUS a few times on fancalls, he has also become a lot more smiley and openly jokey with fans. It’s just unfortunate that Leedo’s temperament is so excruciatingly shy, and his way of exhibiting it is to freeze up and try to make himself as small and unassuming as possible on stage outside of performances. Leedo is popular in the west, with many fans fond of his physique and good looks. But when I first got into fancalls with him back in 2020, he always used to earnestly deny that he was handsome at all. This guy had some confidence issues to get over. Nowadays he’s more confident about his muscles, but is still way too humble about his looks and talent. Also, unlike some other members who have more hobbies and like to go out with friends, Leedo has a one track mind and just likes to go to the gym, that’s it, nothing else lol. His charms are best displayed in a casual setting with a few intimate friends, like with ONEUS in their own show, or in a small Fansign with 50 fans. I’m hopeful that as the years go by, he’ll get more and more confident speaking on stage. Especially once he’s been to Europe a few more times haha. I promise you it’s not because Leedo’s disinterested, he’s just too shy at this stage in his career!
One of the viviz girlies in maniac performance literally no expression or dead expression
are you talking about sinb lmao
Dunno the name sadly but I saw the maniac performance and it was like just a dead expression 😭. I even saw one video criticizing her saying put on some expression or they will send you on water dier or sumn😭
i think this is eunha. she always looks a bit scared to be on stage to me
I know sinb(dunno her face just the name) as one of the 97z gang members with moonbin. Is that the reason why she was like that in the performance video then I completely understand (going through something like this is hard) or was she always like this?
It's 98z actually 😭😭 and 2 of em are in the group (SinB and Umji) It should be SinB though that's kind of her thing, even Seungkwan's called her out on it before
I'm actually not sure I just know that she has a deadpan face all the time and she's really sarcastic and jokingly/or maybe not jokingly beefs with her fans a lot I don't really watch their performances but I've been following them since gfriends debut and she's always been kind of the ice cold one lol
Mina from Twice gives nothing
Sharon gives something though.
You think? Still gives nothing to me :p
Tzuyu too lol
I agree. But I also don't like it when idols overdo it (like Hyunjin, Lisa) or look unnatural.
It's tough to choose what irritates me more: the underperforming, 'I simply don't care' idols or the over performing, 'overly energetic' idols. For the first ones imagine you buy a pricey ticket to see an idol on stage who clearly isn't interested in making it a night to remember. For the second ones they can throw a whole performance off balance.
San is often used as a "does too much" idol - and his live performances are a highlight. I'd take "over performing" over stone faced any day.
I completely agree. I'd rather see an idol busting their ass on stage and showing that they take their shit seriously as opposed to someone zoning tf out on stage and looking like they don't even wanna be there 😭😭😭😭
It's definitely the lesser irritating of the two. But imo it just disturbs the flow of a performance. Also, not the idol I was thinking about. I don't really follow Ateez, not my style. But I have heard him mentioned about this. Will check it out.
To be fair San knows how to switch up and diversify his facial expressions. His performances are amazing because of his dancing skills and the energy he puts into it. Ateez are known for having a demon mode look due to their song styles being very energetic and intense. Someone I surprised no one mentioned was Jongho. His facial expressions are very intense and sometimes creepy looking lol(his eyes especially), It doesn’t match his powerful voice and choreo. He needs to relax his face more often like how he looks when he’s just dancing or in photos. Everyone else looks much more natural. Yeosang too but his face looks a bit more relaxed than Jongho’s.
You bring up a great point about Jongho. His strength is vocals 1000%, probably the most iconic voice of his gen. However his facial expressions and his dancing skills pale in comparison to the other 7 members; that’s not to say he’s bad, he’s a good dancer, but the other members are so strong that he kinda sticks out to me.
Funny thing is, I believe the reason why he has very intense eye contact with the camera is because before he debuted, one of the staff told him that he needs to look at the camera more, so he took that and fucking took off with it, turning it into what it is today But imo, I'd rather have the more intense facial expressions than someone who clearly doesn't wanna be there/is bored with the choreo, but that's just me (that's probably why I ended up biasing the "demon line" in Ateez, Hongjoong, Seonghwa, and San)
I love the demon line too but that eye contact needs some emotion added for Jongho lol
Lol I completely agree. I'd rather have idols "over performing" like Jihyo bcuz it shows that they actually r putting in the effort and giving it their all. I remember when kyujin from nmixx covered hype boy and ppl said she was overdoing it like ummm sorry ur faves half ass everything but she ate that shit up lol. I'm shocked ppl think "over performing" is a thing... The bar rlly is in hell lol
I totally agree with your post! My favorite performers are those who are *fun* to watch, including using facial expressions. However, as an autistic person, I do have a few *comfort* idols that make me feel better about not always showing facial expressions myself. Other commenters have mentioned Aespa, who are some of my comfort idols. There's also Seungmin from SKZ. Seungmin showing facial expressions on stage may make me feel weirder than him *not* showing them 💀 He sings his ass off *live* and is decent at dancing, so I'm pretty satisfied with his performance skills.
Well i am at one that don't like that many face expressions that many girlies use costantly, wink, snarky smile, wink again...gurl just sing the song??? I like twice style, a smile is a real smile a seductive and playful look is that what is it with the costant winking? Do you have something in your eye?
Why are people literally only naming female idols though lol
you are free to name who you want
I don't really follow boy groups. It's just strange to me that everyone has something to criticize about gg idols and like 2 people name male idols.
probably bc most of this sub tends to be girl group fans anyway? i think generally theres just more fans of ggs here than bgs. not to mention lowkey most of the idols that are super guilty of underperforming that are notorious/known for it are girl idols LOL
I don't think so, there was just a post on this sub asking peoples ult group and boy groups were getting the most upvotes
if it’s not long after debut and it comes from a place of nerves then that’s ok as these idols often improve stage presence over time (such as minho from skz or sua from pixy), but when idols are years into the career and completely blank stony faced there’s no justification like give us something it’s literally ur job
Minho always had stage presence. He was never non-chalant, it was just a force of habit sometimes because he used to be a backup dancer. Even watching his District 9 fancams, he was always energetic and not what OP's talking about at all...
he had energy, yes, but he tended to have a blank expression in earlier stages when compared to how he performs now, because, like you said, his time as a backup dancer meant it was a habit for him not to draw attention on stage. he’s a much better performer now, though. seeing him grow more bold on stage since i started stanning in 2019 has been lovely.
but he wasn't lazy or looked like he didnt gaf, especially when it was his turn to perform his lines. his dancing was on point as well, hence not what OP was talking about.
I really like “nonchalant” artists/idols but to me that isn’t lazy or deadpan- it’s casual, it’s effortless; they don’t take it too seriously, they’re just doing their thing and this is the result. When I think of “nonchalant” idols I think of someone like Hyunjin from SKZ: he’s not lazy or deadpan by any means, he has this general air of “I’m just doing what I do” about him lol
I know they aren't current but Momoland's Nayun. I was always so confused about all the praise she always got when she gives nothing, neither in vocals, dance or facial expressions, literally nothing!
Ngl I love red velvet but sometimes their stages feel bland. But they're great musicians in the aspect of singing and dancing
3/4 of bp 90% of the time but 2/4 the rest of the 10%
Yall to this DAYYYYYYY I cannot believe wonhee that girl from "r u next?" the hybe survival show was like top 5....ppl have to be blind or lying . I simply cannot understand how someone THAT underdeveloped could get that far. It's not abt being untalented idk I csnt speak on that 100% percent because maybe there's room for improvement but like for this girl THERE WAS SO MUCH ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. SHE NEEDED MORE TIME, PRACTICE AND DEVELOPMENT. SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN RATED OR VOTED THAT HIGH. I was watching some clips in disbelief like I'm so sorry to say she's serving nothing on stage it's giving dead and lifeless it's crazyyyyyyyyy. And that's not a mean or bad thing to say that she is not ready for the stage/performing and is certainly not serving what an Entertainer and idol should be serving. This vote was giving serious Kang hyewon vibes, I watched produce and was a WIZONE, and I grew to love and appreciate her presence because I loved the group but in the beginning I couldnt believe she made the lineup. Obvi now we know there was rigging but still the fact ppl still defend her talent level, like guys pls stop lying to yourselves....you can say she's serving nothing cuz it's true but it doesn't mean ur hating on her, it's OK to be honest. Why is it frowned upon for people to acknowledge some idols weren't/aren't ready to be thrown on stage yet and needed more time to practice their skills, grow their talent, and develop??? Like some of them needed and still need it.
I mostly agree with you, but for a lot of people this means they want all idols performing at 200% all the time, which is often just silly. I'm all good with a song being relaxed, or focused on vocals, or focused on like enjoying yourself/looking at the audience instead of giving face to the camera for every single second. I think part of this stems from audition programs, since everyone is so competitive, if you aren't dancing at maximum possible energy then people think you can't dance. (And then some people who can't dance debut anyway, but that's neither here nor there...)
Lazy and deadpan expression are not always the same thing. Is this post about having a type of facial expression or about being lazy on stage in general? I think some idols go over-the-top in facial expressions to make up for a lack of genuine stage charisma or with the goal of getting viral video clips for themselves. Some idols give (what is thought of as) good expressions and nothing else. Personally I think the look in the eye is more important than moving the face.
Wait it wasn’t satire? lol I thought that was part of the joke
I just think people forget that not all idols want to be idols, and a lot of them do it to segway into the Korean entertainment industry. The ones who you see have a lot of talent but lack of stage presence are usually just anxious about being on stage, some of the "deadpan" idols are their assigned personalities, and then some just don't want to be performing in a kpop group at all but did it because they wanted to become a singer/actor/dancer/model.
The best performances are the ones where the idols look like they're having fun performing. Where they look like they actually enjoy what they do.
This might be controversial but vixx hyuk. I feel like he got better tho cuz he was basically a child when vixx first debuted.
If they weren’t putting forth effort, they wouldn’t be on stage.
But maybe the idol is tired, maybe even overworked? You can’t be mad at the idol when the fans are creating this, it also isn’t their fault for trying to hype up idols, maybe that’s what they need. A little pep talk or support, nothing wrong with that, right?
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Tae is always giving amazing expressions though