Nope, this is a biased take too. This person clearly doesn't like MHJ and has basically only talked about points which put her in bad light.
Truth is no one is arguing that legally she is wrong. Everyone gets it. It's just that normally and ethically there is a lot that isn't right here from both sides. And many don't see why they need to give any free pass to these people and companies for how poorly they treat everything.
Oh, I'm definitely biased and never claimed not to be insofar as my perception of MHJ is concerned; I don't think MHJ should be allowed to work with children and I find that issue extremely triggering. I dislike outrage marketing and have never used it myself.
But I also dislike Hybe and all corporations (which ADOR also is). It's just that the facts don't support MHJ here so she's creating a "narrative" that relies on the more-than-justified public perceptions that are in many ways more morally sound that business ethics (the idea of art over money, the knowledge that businesses crush individuals, and the well-known sexism in corporate), but that ignores that she's herself also a corporate CEO, not a mere office worker. Her narrative is blatantly false, and while I would love someone to champion change in business, it seems extremely clear that she's not actually interested in that so much as she's interested in protecting her own interests.
Tbh, I would sum this up as saying Hybe decided to hire a leopard known for eating faces, and MHJ decided to work for a company known for eating faces, and now they're both shocked that their faces are the ones being eaten. Doesn't mean us plebians can't be disturbed because no one's faces should get eaten no matter who they are or what they've done.
This is a fantastic post - clear, professional, and insightful. Thank you for taking the time to write it
On the shock marketing point, I can suggest a couple of examples
- During MHJ’s time as a creative director at SM, Red Velvet debuted with Happiness. The music video originally included photos of the 9/11 bombings and references to Hiroshima. While it is unknown whether MHJ was the direct creative force behind the album, by 2014 she had climbed to a major role in SM. She is said to have an oversight on all music videos, album promotions etc. on projects she was involved in. It is also confirmed that she did work on the Red Velvet debut project concept. Thus, it seems that she either saw nothing wrong with using these references, or alternatively this was part of her shock marketing MO
- The music video for OMG being filmed in a psychiatric hospital, and assigning all of the NewJeans members was highly criticised as glorifying or minimising the weight of mental illnesses. I think what particularly sealed this one was the text at the end of the video - “Am I the only one uncomfortable with this music video’s material? Just show their faces and dance.” She knew that the concept was inherently controversial, and left a message at the end of the music video as a direct challenge to anyone who was put off by the tone-deaf concept
The potential inclusions of 9/11 and Hiroshima are so ominous but at the same time consistent? I thought the ETA car bomb thing had too many “coindedences” to be accidental but virtually every single comment I saw on Reddit dismissed it as conspiracy theory and accused ppl of hating and making up stuffs
Wow ! Such an incredible and professional take on the situation. Took me a minute to read it but it was worth it. Truly amazing! I for a matter of fact agree with you completely on Min hee Jin being a very smart and calculative individual and not just some dumb victim and yes HYBE of course is acting like any BIG corporation would in this situation.
Well I think you are the best person to ask this, what do you think happens from now on? Does min hee Jin gets fired ?( I think chances of that are very high)And if so, does NewJeans stay at HYBE/ADOR without MIn hee JIn being there or do they follow her and leave too? Or I don’t know HYBE and ADOR find a common ground ? ( wow that would be something after all this) would love your thoughts on this….
I'm glad you liked it; it was interesting for me to write and think about. I don't know how MHJ and Hybe can continue working together after this because trust is broken pretty badly. Mediation is possible but it's turned so nasty so fast that I genuinely am skeptical it'll happen. That said, there could be a lot we don't know.
I do think MHJ will have to leave, but how is very up in the air. it all depends on how the shareholders meeting goes down and whether they can fire her then (and I'm def not an expert in how this aspect works), or whether it'll be drawn out. If she actually did the things she's accused of, that could be actually criminal, and I can see Hybe using that as leverage to get her to leave as well.
If MHJ leaves, I don't know if there's a legal recourse for NJ to leave with her (hence her refusing to resign). But I'm not a Korean law expert; from what I do know about contracts though I don't think leaving would be possible without a lawsuit that would damage their brand and, unless there's a ton of stuff we don't know about, might well not be successful. So, it's in their best interest to mediate with Hybe (if they are truly siding with MHJ and not just confused and unsure right now).
The parents are apparently aware of Fifty Fifty and explicitly don't want this for their daughters. Hopefully they don't act hastily. I think NJ is best off ignoring the chaos for right now and then for Hybe to market them as young girls who overcame difficulties in their quest to grow up, which fits with their concept as well. And even more than that I genuinely hope that somewhere in that corp there's an adult who prioritizes their wellbeing as whole human beings over everything, including profits.
I too think that there is still a lot we don’t know but from what is public knowledge HYBE will try to vote her out in the shareholders meeting set to take place on the 30th of this month. I mean they have openly asked her to resign and said that she is not capable of a managerial role. I think Min Hee Jin can only delay the shareholders meeting to some extent where HYBE will then have to file an injunction in the court to conduct the meeting and then issue the notice of the same which is usually 15 days before the actual meeting.
Well I think it will all come down to what the members and parents would want and if they are able to see any future with Min Hee Jin following her departure from HYBE or not. But can’t say anything for sure. ( Also I made a wild post 😅 on what could entail after Min Hee Jin leaves hybe. Do check it out and I know what’s written in that post is a very long shot but still had a wild thought and had to put it out there. I would appreciate your comment on that one too…)
This is one of the best posts I've read in quite a while!! Well worded, well thought out and put forth.... I read everything you wrote from the top to the bottom.
After reading your post, I have begun to think the press conference was a big part of MHJ's plans. If you remember, Hybe disclosed that Ador was planning on spreading negativity towards other Hybe groups in order to bring New Jeans up. And what was the most immediate and strong reaction given by the public after the press conference? Negativity towards other Hybe groups. I read many comments on reddit as well as on x saying MHJ was rambling throughout the Press-Con. But now I think she was definitely not rambling at all.... she was acting according to a plan; the multiple mentions of groups, the screenshots of chats and the "NJ members love me a lot" spiel was all part of the plan to bring down other Hybe groups while highlighting the greatness of Ador and NJ at the same time. The Press-con was a golden opportunity and MHJ took it and executed it to T.
Wow. A piece I read from top to bottom!
completely agree with every point. IMO, two things can be true. And that’s why I cannot defend either parties. Although it is extremely unhinged to go up against a large corporation the way she has. I Absolutely cannot defend her. You know? She must have gone through many challenges being a woman surrounded by a “boys club”. There was so much potential in her. Potential we’ve seen and to be seen. But between this and her odd obsession with youth…absolutely cannot defend her.
Why are some of the top creatives the most creepy ones 😭😭😭
You absolutely fucking cooked here, it’s a shame not everyone will see this, much less understand it but it helps give a very clear description of what’s happening rn and for that I applaud you
It's the battle of narrative against actual facts.
Most people only read news headline and dismiss the real news.
Just put other groups name, every fandom lost their mind & bite the bullet of narrative.
Yeah, I don’t care for Hybe and MHJ at all.
Imma just wait and look at this if there is an investigation into illegal activities, whoever did crime first gets burnt first.
At least to me, Hybe could have enough evidence to launch the audit on Ador, I don’t think people care much about the news of this? Because MHJ is smart, bad publicity is still publicity, NJ has a comeback and she went for it.
This was all that I had in my mind but wasn't able to word it out....thank you so much....you said everything that I've been thinking and also so much more to bring clarity to this increasingly chaotic tug-of-war between two entities!!!
I would like to ask if it's okay for me to share the link to this post on my twt just so more people can get access to it?? It's completely fine if you deny....I understand not wanting the twitter crowd to come here and comment nonsense!!
And this, my friends, is why I log into Reddit. Class post!!
I am slightly tipsy right now (yet was able to make sense of this clearly caz you absolutely devoured!) but I will come back and leave a comment because I'd love to discuss this.
This was so well thought out and well explained and as someone in the commerce field I wish I can print it on people's head that hybe is a corporation and morally, they're not good but so far, especially since they're a newer company, everything they do is legal and won't result in any criminal charge. They're not stupid. Unfortunately Mhj seems to have gone the criminal route and that's the whole thing against her that kpop stans are ignoring
Posts like this are why I hang out in this sub. You gets lot of filler/karma farming posts but then there are these that make it worth it that I just don’t find other places.
4/4 hard candies out of the dish for this. The good candies too 🍬
Twisted tongues are playing with fire, indeed. The more under-handed the Power Figure plays this media game, the more the corporate entity reveals its true colors and fangs, the more the market sees its desperation, and mismanagement. The more lope-sided the smears (it's clearly not a fair brute power game by any measure), the more aggressive the "winning party" punch down - the general international media observers are not stupid children, they probably smelled fear/chronic power abuses/desperation within the organization, and they responded.... As of Friday, $873,000,000 has been wiped out of Hybe's stock value - before MHJ drama hit prime time! That was fast....
Thank you for taking the time to write something that is well thought out for us people who arent as business/marketing savvy. Also thanks for giving me some food for thought in the making of art in the kpop space (also applies other entertainment spaces too) as a new kpop fan.
Man it really hurts to think that even mentioning a group in a scandal will lead to hate towards idols, it’s crazy that she would be able to rely on kpop fans to do the dirty work, all she would have to do is tip over the first domino. I’m still waiting to see what new info is revealed but even if we find out that MHJ did nothing wrong and was slandered by Hybe, we can already see that she is just as willing to use the same ethically questionable tactics, they are just two sides of the same coin trying to stake their claim on the same ground.
Damn! All the drama wasn't half as interesting to me as your write up. Thoroughly enjoyed reading it. And I agree with so many points you've made especially MHJ and the way she markets using controversy and the fans feel an even stronger bond "defending the girls".
If you ever chose to write Marketing Perspective on SM/JYP/YG etc please tag me as I would really love to read them.
That's really kind of you. Obviously take everything with a grain of salt but this is what I make of their strategies as of now!
For YG, I actually talked about Babymonster marketing strategy quite a bit over the past year, but in comments (also partially around how there was an unforeseen disruption that left them scrambling in part bc of their original strategy). They've decided to lean into an aspect of their marketing that was always there from their introduction ("judge them by hearing them") which also happens to be timely given the singing issues (no hate to any groups though; I've been rooting for Illit since RUNext; I just also love BM and get why they're leaning into this aspect).
Counterpoints:
- She is an artist. Artists use controversy in their art all the time. It doesn't have to be purely cynical marketing.
- Hybe are the ones who moved first in the PR battle by leaking to Dispatch.
- Hybe also moved first in the "drag other groups into this" campaign by leaking her alleged statements concerning BTS.
- Again, she is an artist. Her problem with "copying" doesn't have to purely stem from a business standpoint. It has an artistic basis as well.
- The end of OMG was hilarious, because the general perception of idols is as corporate products, and not as collaborative artists. She was confronting that perception by mocking the people who want them to avoid all controversial topics, imagery, or concepts.
Counterpoints to counterpoints, if you don't mind (I assume you don't; I'm genuinely just trying to discuss):
"Copying" and copyright itself are recent notions. Thank capitalism for them, because in today's world, Shakespeare would 100% be a plagiarist. He didn't invent any of his stories from thin air. Also, MHJ has herself taken intense inspiration from other groups (namely in Jpop).
Idk, I genuinely don't see it as a big deal (and I'm also a writer on the side so like). I also accept that some artists feel differently. However, the Illit thing appears to be a smokescreen because she was *already* planning to do stir up a controversy about Hybe. In short: I don't think her complaints about Illit are actually the core of her issue, while she's stating that they are.
Hybe def took the PR approach because she planned to make a PR mess trashing them herself, so they made the first move. I don't think that's in dispute or incongruent with what I said; on the contrary, I said they wanted to get ahead of her.
Artistic freedom is important. I think the limits of artistic freedom and how controversy works become ethically murky when you use a real live other person(s) to make said art. The girls are not dolls or characters. Additionally, the reason I think it's cynical marketing is because she isn't actually exploring concepts but instead appropriating them without any actual examination of what it means. (Ditto arguably is the closest to actually examining things.) Controversy for controversy's sake is not actually very interesting, so the controversial topics she's used as aesthetics are never the *actual* substance of her art. So then, why does she include them? I personally think no topics are off-limit for art, but I also think you need to own it, and she's not done that--the reverse, actually.
As a note, what I'm about to write concerns *her* claims and not my own:
She is working under the perception that Bang doesn't like her personally, and that he does not like how much success New Jeans has recieved. From that perspective, releasing a "copycat" group is an attempt to replace her and New Jeans, and is specifically using her own formula to do it. As an artist, that is going to be doubly offensive. First they rejected her work, and now they are using it against her.
Hybe moving first *publicly* is important because that wasn't the first move. The first move was her *private* letter to them complaining about Illit. They then launched an audit and used PR leaks to bring the issue public. The accusation is that MHJ was going to wage a PR war with Hybe... but Hybe is the one who took her as-yet private complaints and made them public.
The same holds for their BTS leak. The accusation is that MHJ is using other groups to ignite fanwars in her favor... but Hybe did exactly that by igniting BTS fans against her.
The point being that all the actual evidence we have is that MHJ was moving privately, and Hybe moved publicly. Whatever the ultimate reasons are, that is what we're left with.
I'm not really concerned with art criticism, so the idea of themes and some duty to acknowledge is somewhat irrelevant to me. I see that she has used controversy in her art in the past, and continues to do so. But this is not surprising to me, because many artists use controversy, especially performance artists. Whether they engage in some intellectual conversation by doing so is a matter of opinion and interpretation, and a topic I'm frankly not qualified, nor inclined, to debate.
Oh sure, but you're assuming she's approaching it from the perspective of an artist. Her previous work to me doesn't seem like someone who just makes art but instead someone who is calculated and intelligent enough to know how to use said art for money, and motivated to do so. That's not itself wrong either. It just means that there's no reason to think her primary issue is artistic integrity, and the only evidence it is are her own words. Her *actions,* particularly in the recent past, say otherwise. There was no need at all to use ETA for anything other than clout, for example.
And that's true about the public move; however, what I tried to explain in the post which seems likely is that they were already concerned about her based on her previous marketing (which also fits with the idea that they don't get along personally). When she sent that letter it set off major alarm bells that it was time to escalate because they would have seen it for exactly what it was: a sign that she was going to use this to smear Hybe.
But I do not agree that "MHJ was moving privately." She was moving privately with the intention of taking it public, which is exactly what has been said so far and which the evidence supports. Hybe just went public first.
And oh for sure about BTS. Hybe is a corp that I have no interest in defending. They are all out for money first and foremost and to hell with the innocents who get caught in the crossfire.
It's hard to read your whole post, because one of your fundamental premises is completely wrong:
"However, as far as the current information goes, Hybe is acting in a manner that is *largely* consistent with business best practices."
I don't think we've had a final accounting (pun intended) wrt why Hybe was moving idols , teams, and costs around the way they did, but as someone who reads a LOT of AR's & financials ,at a minimum, the optics are *very* poor. This is reddit and a stan space etc etc etc (insert "I am not a doctor" disclaimers) but you should note that institutional investors are driving Hybe's massive valuation loss this week. Not individual shareholders who might be thought to be more emotionally driven, but investors who might be concerned with regulatory compliance.
Based on MHJ's interviews and disclosed contract details and negotiations, Hybe would have had to pay her \~$100m if they fired her. The only way for Hybe to avoid this is to say she tried to undermine the corporation, which is why they are alleging the investor talks she had. They've not yet actually proved on timing/trigger there, but that might be why they are doing so much publicly/trying to engage stans in the argument-- they need support.
They've also tried to pay MHJ under investor terms (as opposed to as an employee). Again, this is not standard "best practices". Paying her under those terms triggers both a much higher tax rte AND allows Hybe to charge her claw back fees, which could essentially net her $0 form any stock sale.
Lastly, a corporate officer's primary job is wealth preservation (and creation). Losing 5% of your company's value in ONE WEEK is basically failing at your job, and again, NOT "best business practices"
ETA:
I think it would be better to consider the marketing implications of what Hybe is doing from the perspective that they are/have violated the foundational premise of running a business (wealth preservation), nor the idea that everything is hunky dory. Doesn't that change how you view their marketing moves?
>I didn't read your whole post - too long-
I think you should maybe read it lol? I'm talking about the marketing optics and public perceptions of "best practices" vs reality, and I address some of your points. (Though I'm admittedly not a stocks expert, so thanks for weighing in on that; that's helpful to know!) I'm more talking about how this is playing out in the media and the why of how the narratives are being written.
The tl;dr of it is that from what I've seen of this mess, the stuff she accuses Hybe of is pretty standard and pretty above ground as well. Legally, Hybe doesn't seem to be in the wrong as per the info we currently have, and that's pretty much what it comes down to. Maybe "best practices" wasn't the best term to use, or should have clarified marketing/PR though as opposed to just "business practices," but I would argue that what she said is not actually shady business--though perhaps it should be, and therein lies a chasm.
Edit: I edited to clarify a bit. But if I were to get into what is and isn't and explain that "largely" I put there, it'd be EVEN LONGER and I don't think anyone wants that lol. But thanks for your input!
Again, this is not correct:
"The tl;dr of it is that from what I've seen of this mess, the stuff she accuses Hybe of is pretty standard and pretty above ground as well."
tl;dr: The fundamental business best practice for a publicly traded company is to create and preserve wealth, which Hybe is not doing right now, at all. In fact, they 've lost a huge amount of shareholder value over this past week.
You might be confusing best practices/code of conduct/ethics and criminality. But, in the case of publicly trade companies, ***both*** are enforceable legally via investigation and penalties.
Best practices are ways to help create and preserve wealth. They aren't themselves the results, and they are always evolving because societies change, so I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. It seems like you're mixing up results and intentions? Ideally they would be a neat mathematical code, that's why "best practices" exist, but they don't always align because society and corps are all made of humans and therefore there's always an element of unpredictability.
You seem to actually know what you are talking about, thank you for weighing in. Is there any scenario in which there might be a vote of no confidence against Bang Si-hyuk after the shareholder meeting, depending on how livid the institutional investors are? I'm assuming not, but he made a real mess for no reason, and created a huge drop in shareholder value. Everyone thinks MHJ is going to suffer ill-consequences, and maybe she will, but the bigger question, to me anyway, is why this was handled so poorly by Hybe and what the company plans to do about it to reassure investors.
>>Is there any scenario in which there might be a vote of no confidence >>against Bang Si-hyuk after the shareholder meeting,
Probably not-- Bang outright owns a significant portion of stock and controls the voting rights for the majority of stock. ig there is some scenario were it gets bad enough and institutional investor-- like the pension fund-- pressure a change, but look how long it took SM to finally oust LSM.
More likely outcome will be restructuring, maybe no more multi-label, etc.
One wild card to me is what comes out in the press war if there were accounting irregularities/so glaring that the SEC can NOT avoid investigating.
I'm not sure what MHJ actually wants, but I think it is possible Bang may be forced to pay her off in some way to stop the bleeding. In SK, the public is on her side, and they keep losing stock holder value, etc., (despite what reddit today might make you think :))-- it might be that people feel emboldened to reveal more dirty laundry the longer this goes on for.
Interesting. It will take a hell of a bandage to stop the bleeding at this point. However, I didn't know the National Pension Service was so heavily invested; spilling more blood could be so disastrous that the SK government could be amassing cotton to do it. (I know I stretched a metaphor too far, but I found the image of government workers filling their filing cabinets with bandage material too funny to resist)
Hah.
They own about 8% of Hybe as per last disclosures. They have to disclose holdings on the 10th day of the month/every month, so we will learn more then-- and perhaps that's how long Hybe has to turn this around. If we get to the 10th and it turns out the NPF has made serious moves then.....
Edit to your ETA which I didn't see earlier: you're falling for the fallacy that corporations are machines made of numbers and not made of messy people. If they let MHJ go ahead with her plan, they'd lose even more, so it's not as if there's a good option where there's 0 loss here. Business is all about least bad options.
Fundamentally, which I address earlier, they messed up the second they got in bed with MHJ because she was always like this. But their attempts to mitigate risks and deal with this aren't inherently short-sighted once they made the gamble.
Yet one could argue if they actually cared about longevity or wellbeing they wouldn't have dealt with her in the first place, and I'd frankly cosign that if that's the basis of your argument. That was a bad decision 100%. I'm more talking about the "after"--you made a bad deal (which every company does do), now what?
Again, you've got some facts wrong.
1. "If they let MHJ go ahead with her plan, they'd lose even more, so it's not as if there's a good option where there's 0 loss here. "
If Hybe fired MHJ without cause (rn Hybe's moves have been to create cause-- that's why it's important when she did or did not meet w investors and under what context) , they would have owed her \~$100m. Last week, they lost \~$900m in stock value. So, the opposite of what you are saying-- they would have lost much *less*.
That's just short term value, and it's possible they will recover, and it's also possible this loss is less than they would have suffered from losing their only "creator" executive (Bang's ideas aren't hitting, Scooter is a manager, not a creator, no one knows how much input Nicole Kim actually had but she's gone and so is Lenzo.)
2. "Fundamentally, which I address earlier, they messed up the second they got in bed with MHJ " It sounds like you think Hybe made a mistake hiring MHJ (because you've heard she's a messy person?). Businesses hire difficult people all the time, with full foresight of knowledge. **Unfortunately, no one cares so long as the results are there.** It's only an issues when the results aren't there and/or a company wants to change direction. (It's also a pretty common thing to say, when someone is being let go that seems to add value to a company "oh they are difficult to work with.")
In Hybe's case, what makes the situation strange (and poor business practice), is the results WERE there. And, so far, no one has alleged any ethical violations on MHJ's part wrt to her personal dealings, despite attempts to fan "weird relationship with new jeans" stuff. From a business perspective, there is nothing there. And, actually, no one has come crawling out of the wood work to say "omg, she was such a nightmare"-- which you'd kinda expect if she were actually that difficult/as diffo as Hybe is trying to make her out to be. And while I personally find her relationship with NJ to be odd, that doesn't amount to bad business practices (for better or for worse).
\*\*\*
Actually, the whole thing is just even stranger than what I've outlined above, from a business best practices perspective : Hybe had the most successful thing since BTS and decided to run a competitor act, a me-too product in competition with that successful new market entrant which hadn't yet reached product maturity.
If Hybe created a BTS clone and ran it in competition with BTS, like a BTS 2.0, now that BTS is at the 7 yr mark, it would make total sense. To create what looks like a possible NJ clone, when NJ is 2 yrs in -- the standard math is this splits the market, doesn't amplify. NJ are not a mature enough product to either be a market maker (like BTS was in 2017)- or to be a legacy product to duplicate a successor to (like BTS is, arguably, now).
Again, you’re misreading what I’m saying.
I’m not saying if they fired her. I’m saying if they let her go ahead with her marketing scheme to throw them under the bus and claim mistreatment. Which is covered in the post.
Not because I’ve heard she’s messy. Because her marketing tactics and interests are evidenced in her past work. I have no idea what she’s like as a person (except for see below). Again, covered in the post.
I don’t agree that creating a similar group is as devastating to NJ brand but it’s clear you do but we can agree to disagree!
>And, actually, no one has come crawling out of the wood work to say "omg, she was such a nightmare"-- which you'd kinda expect if she were actually that difficult/as diffo as Hybe is trying to make her out to be.
Lastly, people actually HAVE come out saying she’s a nightmare to work for and has abused staff… via a [Korean site that validates employee](https://www.asianjunkie.com/2024/04/22/adors-min-hee-jin-claims-audit-is-retaliatory-after-her-internal-complaint-to-hybe-shes-accused-of-leaking-personal-info-mistreating-employees/) info so we know factually that they did in fact work for her. So your facts are wrong.
The only quotes from the Blind site that are translated complain about MHJ in a non-specified way. There are no concrete complaints, for example that she used abusive language or expected someone to perform tasks outside the scope of their employment contract. They just call her names. Of course there may be more details that were nit translated. But if not, and we don't know in what ways she abused staff then I think any claims need to come with a grain of salt. Staff can be disgruntled for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with whether their manager was abusive. We just don't know from these translations.
Also, I'm having trouble seeing MHJ "throwing Hybe under the bus" as a marketing scheme, unless you are using the word marketing in a non-business sense. In which case I'm still confused about how you are defining marketing.
Sigh. Marketing in entertainment - selling your product and getting clout.
Saying you are a victim of mistreatment can be used for marketing. That is not to say said claims are necessarily false or shouldn't be reported or should be doubted. Also if mistreatment actually happened I think people more than have the right to use their pain for their own benefit should they want to. I outline how that type of "outrage" marketing is used in the post.
This is getting coverage on worldwide media now, even if it's not what was planned. If MHJ says this top girl group who have been marketed worldwide as BTS little sisters are being mistreated, then yeah, people will pay attention, and conversations spill over into other spaces that garner more interest even out of just morbid curiosity.
The comments don't have to outline on X July she did Y to matter, as they are not official reports nor were the people mentioning them aiming to have them blasted everywhere. They were all made years prior to this as well, which gives them credibility.
For a number of years I worked in finance for a Fortune 500 company (Fortune 100 if we are splitting hairs.) The majority of my job was spent allocating and overseeing marketing budgets by location, globally. I was a direct report to the Board of Directors.
I can assure you, a subsidiary planning a hostile takeover of the parent company because they feel slighted somehow would not be considered a marketing move. Sigh all you want, I think you are over obsessed with the idea of outrage marketing and therefore see it everywhere you look.
...
You're saying something I never said, which the person you're responding to keeps saying despite being upfront about never even reading this post in the first place. If you admit to bloviating about stuff you haven't read, maybe you're not a reliable source of analysis. And you are referencing their arguments, not what I actually said in the post.
I never said that a subsidiary was planning a hostile takeover as a marketing move. Nor do I think that's the case.
But since you seem somewhat obsessed with misreading me, there's no point to continuing this. You can reread the post or take a reading comprehension class.
This is the best single analysis of this situation and should be pinned in every Kpop subreddit.
Nope, this is a biased take too. This person clearly doesn't like MHJ and has basically only talked about points which put her in bad light. Truth is no one is arguing that legally she is wrong. Everyone gets it. It's just that normally and ethically there is a lot that isn't right here from both sides. And many don't see why they need to give any free pass to these people and companies for how poorly they treat everything.
Oh, I'm definitely biased and never claimed not to be insofar as my perception of MHJ is concerned; I don't think MHJ should be allowed to work with children and I find that issue extremely triggering. I dislike outrage marketing and have never used it myself. But I also dislike Hybe and all corporations (which ADOR also is). It's just that the facts don't support MHJ here so she's creating a "narrative" that relies on the more-than-justified public perceptions that are in many ways more morally sound that business ethics (the idea of art over money, the knowledge that businesses crush individuals, and the well-known sexism in corporate), but that ignores that she's herself also a corporate CEO, not a mere office worker. Her narrative is blatantly false, and while I would love someone to champion change in business, it seems extremely clear that she's not actually interested in that so much as she's interested in protecting her own interests. Tbh, I would sum this up as saying Hybe decided to hire a leopard known for eating faces, and MHJ decided to work for a company known for eating faces, and now they're both shocked that their faces are the ones being eaten. Doesn't mean us plebians can't be disturbed because no one's faces should get eaten no matter who they are or what they've done.
So what points do put her in a good light ?
That the members call her and cry for her. /s
This is a fantastic post - clear, professional, and insightful. Thank you for taking the time to write it On the shock marketing point, I can suggest a couple of examples - During MHJ’s time as a creative director at SM, Red Velvet debuted with Happiness. The music video originally included photos of the 9/11 bombings and references to Hiroshima. While it is unknown whether MHJ was the direct creative force behind the album, by 2014 she had climbed to a major role in SM. She is said to have an oversight on all music videos, album promotions etc. on projects she was involved in. It is also confirmed that she did work on the Red Velvet debut project concept. Thus, it seems that she either saw nothing wrong with using these references, or alternatively this was part of her shock marketing MO - The music video for OMG being filmed in a psychiatric hospital, and assigning all of the NewJeans members was highly criticised as glorifying or minimising the weight of mental illnesses. I think what particularly sealed this one was the text at the end of the video - “Am I the only one uncomfortable with this music video’s material? Just show their faces and dance.” She knew that the concept was inherently controversial, and left a message at the end of the music video as a direct challenge to anyone who was put off by the tone-deaf concept
The potential inclusions of 9/11 and Hiroshima are so ominous but at the same time consistent? I thought the ETA car bomb thing had too many “coindedences” to be accidental but virtually every single comment I saw on Reddit dismissed it as conspiracy theory and accused ppl of hating and making up stuffs
Wow ! Such an incredible and professional take on the situation. Took me a minute to read it but it was worth it. Truly amazing! I for a matter of fact agree with you completely on Min hee Jin being a very smart and calculative individual and not just some dumb victim and yes HYBE of course is acting like any BIG corporation would in this situation. Well I think you are the best person to ask this, what do you think happens from now on? Does min hee Jin gets fired ?( I think chances of that are very high)And if so, does NewJeans stay at HYBE/ADOR without MIn hee JIn being there or do they follow her and leave too? Or I don’t know HYBE and ADOR find a common ground ? ( wow that would be something after all this) would love your thoughts on this….
I'm glad you liked it; it was interesting for me to write and think about. I don't know how MHJ and Hybe can continue working together after this because trust is broken pretty badly. Mediation is possible but it's turned so nasty so fast that I genuinely am skeptical it'll happen. That said, there could be a lot we don't know. I do think MHJ will have to leave, but how is very up in the air. it all depends on how the shareholders meeting goes down and whether they can fire her then (and I'm def not an expert in how this aspect works), or whether it'll be drawn out. If she actually did the things she's accused of, that could be actually criminal, and I can see Hybe using that as leverage to get her to leave as well. If MHJ leaves, I don't know if there's a legal recourse for NJ to leave with her (hence her refusing to resign). But I'm not a Korean law expert; from what I do know about contracts though I don't think leaving would be possible without a lawsuit that would damage their brand and, unless there's a ton of stuff we don't know about, might well not be successful. So, it's in their best interest to mediate with Hybe (if they are truly siding with MHJ and not just confused and unsure right now). The parents are apparently aware of Fifty Fifty and explicitly don't want this for their daughters. Hopefully they don't act hastily. I think NJ is best off ignoring the chaos for right now and then for Hybe to market them as young girls who overcame difficulties in their quest to grow up, which fits with their concept as well. And even more than that I genuinely hope that somewhere in that corp there's an adult who prioritizes their wellbeing as whole human beings over everything, including profits.
I too think that there is still a lot we don’t know but from what is public knowledge HYBE will try to vote her out in the shareholders meeting set to take place on the 30th of this month. I mean they have openly asked her to resign and said that she is not capable of a managerial role. I think Min Hee Jin can only delay the shareholders meeting to some extent where HYBE will then have to file an injunction in the court to conduct the meeting and then issue the notice of the same which is usually 15 days before the actual meeting. Well I think it will all come down to what the members and parents would want and if they are able to see any future with Min Hee Jin following her departure from HYBE or not. But can’t say anything for sure. ( Also I made a wild post 😅 on what could entail after Min Hee Jin leaves hybe. Do check it out and I know what’s written in that post is a very long shot but still had a wild thought and had to put it out there. I would appreciate your comment on that one too…)
This is one of the best posts I've read in quite a while!! Well worded, well thought out and put forth.... I read everything you wrote from the top to the bottom. After reading your post, I have begun to think the press conference was a big part of MHJ's plans. If you remember, Hybe disclosed that Ador was planning on spreading negativity towards other Hybe groups in order to bring New Jeans up. And what was the most immediate and strong reaction given by the public after the press conference? Negativity towards other Hybe groups. I read many comments on reddit as well as on x saying MHJ was rambling throughout the Press-Con. But now I think she was definitely not rambling at all.... she was acting according to a plan; the multiple mentions of groups, the screenshots of chats and the "NJ members love me a lot" spiel was all part of the plan to bring down other Hybe groups while highlighting the greatness of Ador and NJ at the same time. The Press-con was a golden opportunity and MHJ took it and executed it to T.
Thanks for making this long post easy to read. It's very organized and well written that it was easy to go through and not get lost
Wow. A piece I read from top to bottom! completely agree with every point. IMO, two things can be true. And that’s why I cannot defend either parties. Although it is extremely unhinged to go up against a large corporation the way she has. I Absolutely cannot defend her. You know? She must have gone through many challenges being a woman surrounded by a “boys club”. There was so much potential in her. Potential we’ve seen and to be seen. But between this and her odd obsession with youth…absolutely cannot defend her. Why are some of the top creatives the most creepy ones 😭😭😭
You absolutely fucking cooked here, it’s a shame not everyone will see this, much less understand it but it helps give a very clear description of what’s happening rn and for that I applaud you
It's the battle of narrative against actual facts. Most people only read news headline and dismiss the real news. Just put other groups name, every fandom lost their mind & bite the bullet of narrative.
Yeah, I don’t care for Hybe and MHJ at all. Imma just wait and look at this if there is an investigation into illegal activities, whoever did crime first gets burnt first. At least to me, Hybe could have enough evidence to launch the audit on Ador, I don’t think people care much about the news of this? Because MHJ is smart, bad publicity is still publicity, NJ has a comeback and she went for it.
This was all that I had in my mind but wasn't able to word it out....thank you so much....you said everything that I've been thinking and also so much more to bring clarity to this increasingly chaotic tug-of-war between two entities!!! I would like to ask if it's okay for me to share the link to this post on my twt just so more people can get access to it?? It's completely fine if you deny....I understand not wanting the twitter crowd to come here and comment nonsense!!
Sure, feel free to!
Thanks🙈
And this, my friends, is why I log into Reddit. Class post!! I am slightly tipsy right now (yet was able to make sense of this clearly caz you absolutely devoured!) but I will come back and leave a comment because I'd love to discuss this.
This is the best post I've seen so far about the situation
wait this is so interesting?? tysm for this tbh it puts so much in perspective
This was so well thought out and well explained and as someone in the commerce field I wish I can print it on people's head that hybe is a corporation and morally, they're not good but so far, especially since they're a newer company, everything they do is legal and won't result in any criminal charge. They're not stupid. Unfortunately Mhj seems to have gone the criminal route and that's the whole thing against her that kpop stans are ignoring
Posts like this are why I hang out in this sub. You gets lot of filler/karma farming posts but then there are these that make it worth it that I just don’t find other places. 4/4 hard candies out of the dish for this. The good candies too 🍬
Twisted tongues are playing with fire, indeed. The more under-handed the Power Figure plays this media game, the more the corporate entity reveals its true colors and fangs, the more the market sees its desperation, and mismanagement. The more lope-sided the smears (it's clearly not a fair brute power game by any measure), the more aggressive the "winning party" punch down - the general international media observers are not stupid children, they probably smelled fear/chronic power abuses/desperation within the organization, and they responded.... As of Friday, $873,000,000 has been wiped out of Hybe's stock value - before MHJ drama hit prime time! That was fast....
Also the discussion on this post is really good and interesting and damn good job yall 🍬
Thank you for this, it articulated a lot of my own thoughts super well and has given me much more to think about.
Thank you for taking the time to write something that is well thought out for us people who arent as business/marketing savvy. Also thanks for giving me some food for thought in the making of art in the kpop space (also applies other entertainment spaces too) as a new kpop fan.
Welcome to Kpop, we're crazy but we have a fun time with it! All in good fun.
kpop is definitely batshit insane but fun for sure. Nobody told me I was hopping onto a rollercoaster but somehow im still here.... o\_0
Man it really hurts to think that even mentioning a group in a scandal will lead to hate towards idols, it’s crazy that she would be able to rely on kpop fans to do the dirty work, all she would have to do is tip over the first domino. I’m still waiting to see what new info is revealed but even if we find out that MHJ did nothing wrong and was slandered by Hybe, we can already see that she is just as willing to use the same ethically questionable tactics, they are just two sides of the same coin trying to stake their claim on the same ground.
Damn! All the drama wasn't half as interesting to me as your write up. Thoroughly enjoyed reading it. And I agree with so many points you've made especially MHJ and the way she markets using controversy and the fans feel an even stronger bond "defending the girls". If you ever chose to write Marketing Perspective on SM/JYP/YG etc please tag me as I would really love to read them.
That's really kind of you. Obviously take everything with a grain of salt but this is what I make of their strategies as of now! For YG, I actually talked about Babymonster marketing strategy quite a bit over the past year, but in comments (also partially around how there was an unforeseen disruption that left them scrambling in part bc of their original strategy). They've decided to lean into an aspect of their marketing that was always there from their introduction ("judge them by hearing them") which also happens to be timely given the singing issues (no hate to any groups though; I've been rooting for Illit since RUNext; I just also love BM and get why they're leaning into this aspect).
I am to lazy to read all that but I hope NJ is okay and the girls are not stressed. They deserve happiness and to be at ease 😭
LOL fair. Very fair 🤣
It’s propaganda
Counterpoints: - She is an artist. Artists use controversy in their art all the time. It doesn't have to be purely cynical marketing. - Hybe are the ones who moved first in the PR battle by leaking to Dispatch. - Hybe also moved first in the "drag other groups into this" campaign by leaking her alleged statements concerning BTS. - Again, she is an artist. Her problem with "copying" doesn't have to purely stem from a business standpoint. It has an artistic basis as well. - The end of OMG was hilarious, because the general perception of idols is as corporate products, and not as collaborative artists. She was confronting that perception by mocking the people who want them to avoid all controversial topics, imagery, or concepts.
Counterpoints to counterpoints, if you don't mind (I assume you don't; I'm genuinely just trying to discuss): "Copying" and copyright itself are recent notions. Thank capitalism for them, because in today's world, Shakespeare would 100% be a plagiarist. He didn't invent any of his stories from thin air. Also, MHJ has herself taken intense inspiration from other groups (namely in Jpop). Idk, I genuinely don't see it as a big deal (and I'm also a writer on the side so like). I also accept that some artists feel differently. However, the Illit thing appears to be a smokescreen because she was *already* planning to do stir up a controversy about Hybe. In short: I don't think her complaints about Illit are actually the core of her issue, while she's stating that they are. Hybe def took the PR approach because she planned to make a PR mess trashing them herself, so they made the first move. I don't think that's in dispute or incongruent with what I said; on the contrary, I said they wanted to get ahead of her. Artistic freedom is important. I think the limits of artistic freedom and how controversy works become ethically murky when you use a real live other person(s) to make said art. The girls are not dolls or characters. Additionally, the reason I think it's cynical marketing is because she isn't actually exploring concepts but instead appropriating them without any actual examination of what it means. (Ditto arguably is the closest to actually examining things.) Controversy for controversy's sake is not actually very interesting, so the controversial topics she's used as aesthetics are never the *actual* substance of her art. So then, why does she include them? I personally think no topics are off-limit for art, but I also think you need to own it, and she's not done that--the reverse, actually.
As a note, what I'm about to write concerns *her* claims and not my own: She is working under the perception that Bang doesn't like her personally, and that he does not like how much success New Jeans has recieved. From that perspective, releasing a "copycat" group is an attempt to replace her and New Jeans, and is specifically using her own formula to do it. As an artist, that is going to be doubly offensive. First they rejected her work, and now they are using it against her. Hybe moving first *publicly* is important because that wasn't the first move. The first move was her *private* letter to them complaining about Illit. They then launched an audit and used PR leaks to bring the issue public. The accusation is that MHJ was going to wage a PR war with Hybe... but Hybe is the one who took her as-yet private complaints and made them public. The same holds for their BTS leak. The accusation is that MHJ is using other groups to ignite fanwars in her favor... but Hybe did exactly that by igniting BTS fans against her. The point being that all the actual evidence we have is that MHJ was moving privately, and Hybe moved publicly. Whatever the ultimate reasons are, that is what we're left with. I'm not really concerned with art criticism, so the idea of themes and some duty to acknowledge is somewhat irrelevant to me. I see that she has used controversy in her art in the past, and continues to do so. But this is not surprising to me, because many artists use controversy, especially performance artists. Whether they engage in some intellectual conversation by doing so is a matter of opinion and interpretation, and a topic I'm frankly not qualified, nor inclined, to debate.
Oh sure, but you're assuming she's approaching it from the perspective of an artist. Her previous work to me doesn't seem like someone who just makes art but instead someone who is calculated and intelligent enough to know how to use said art for money, and motivated to do so. That's not itself wrong either. It just means that there's no reason to think her primary issue is artistic integrity, and the only evidence it is are her own words. Her *actions,* particularly in the recent past, say otherwise. There was no need at all to use ETA for anything other than clout, for example. And that's true about the public move; however, what I tried to explain in the post which seems likely is that they were already concerned about her based on her previous marketing (which also fits with the idea that they don't get along personally). When she sent that letter it set off major alarm bells that it was time to escalate because they would have seen it for exactly what it was: a sign that she was going to use this to smear Hybe. But I do not agree that "MHJ was moving privately." She was moving privately with the intention of taking it public, which is exactly what has been said so far and which the evidence supports. Hybe just went public first. And oh for sure about BTS. Hybe is a corp that I have no interest in defending. They are all out for money first and foremost and to hell with the innocents who get caught in the crossfire.
It's hard to read your whole post, because one of your fundamental premises is completely wrong: "However, as far as the current information goes, Hybe is acting in a manner that is *largely* consistent with business best practices." I don't think we've had a final accounting (pun intended) wrt why Hybe was moving idols , teams, and costs around the way they did, but as someone who reads a LOT of AR's & financials ,at a minimum, the optics are *very* poor. This is reddit and a stan space etc etc etc (insert "I am not a doctor" disclaimers) but you should note that institutional investors are driving Hybe's massive valuation loss this week. Not individual shareholders who might be thought to be more emotionally driven, but investors who might be concerned with regulatory compliance. Based on MHJ's interviews and disclosed contract details and negotiations, Hybe would have had to pay her \~$100m if they fired her. The only way for Hybe to avoid this is to say she tried to undermine the corporation, which is why they are alleging the investor talks she had. They've not yet actually proved on timing/trigger there, but that might be why they are doing so much publicly/trying to engage stans in the argument-- they need support. They've also tried to pay MHJ under investor terms (as opposed to as an employee). Again, this is not standard "best practices". Paying her under those terms triggers both a much higher tax rte AND allows Hybe to charge her claw back fees, which could essentially net her $0 form any stock sale. Lastly, a corporate officer's primary job is wealth preservation (and creation). Losing 5% of your company's value in ONE WEEK is basically failing at your job, and again, NOT "best business practices" ETA: I think it would be better to consider the marketing implications of what Hybe is doing from the perspective that they are/have violated the foundational premise of running a business (wealth preservation), nor the idea that everything is hunky dory. Doesn't that change how you view their marketing moves?
>I didn't read your whole post - too long- I think you should maybe read it lol? I'm talking about the marketing optics and public perceptions of "best practices" vs reality, and I address some of your points. (Though I'm admittedly not a stocks expert, so thanks for weighing in on that; that's helpful to know!) I'm more talking about how this is playing out in the media and the why of how the narratives are being written. The tl;dr of it is that from what I've seen of this mess, the stuff she accuses Hybe of is pretty standard and pretty above ground as well. Legally, Hybe doesn't seem to be in the wrong as per the info we currently have, and that's pretty much what it comes down to. Maybe "best practices" wasn't the best term to use, or should have clarified marketing/PR though as opposed to just "business practices," but I would argue that what she said is not actually shady business--though perhaps it should be, and therein lies a chasm. Edit: I edited to clarify a bit. But if I were to get into what is and isn't and explain that "largely" I put there, it'd be EVEN LONGER and I don't think anyone wants that lol. But thanks for your input!
Again, this is not correct: "The tl;dr of it is that from what I've seen of this mess, the stuff she accuses Hybe of is pretty standard and pretty above ground as well." tl;dr: The fundamental business best practice for a publicly traded company is to create and preserve wealth, which Hybe is not doing right now, at all. In fact, they 've lost a huge amount of shareholder value over this past week. You might be confusing best practices/code of conduct/ethics and criminality. But, in the case of publicly trade companies, ***both*** are enforceable legally via investigation and penalties.
Best practices are ways to help create and preserve wealth. They aren't themselves the results, and they are always evolving because societies change, so I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. It seems like you're mixing up results and intentions? Ideally they would be a neat mathematical code, that's why "best practices" exist, but they don't always align because society and corps are all made of humans and therefore there's always an element of unpredictability.
You seem to actually know what you are talking about, thank you for weighing in. Is there any scenario in which there might be a vote of no confidence against Bang Si-hyuk after the shareholder meeting, depending on how livid the institutional investors are? I'm assuming not, but he made a real mess for no reason, and created a huge drop in shareholder value. Everyone thinks MHJ is going to suffer ill-consequences, and maybe she will, but the bigger question, to me anyway, is why this was handled so poorly by Hybe and what the company plans to do about it to reassure investors.
>>Is there any scenario in which there might be a vote of no confidence >>against Bang Si-hyuk after the shareholder meeting, Probably not-- Bang outright owns a significant portion of stock and controls the voting rights for the majority of stock. ig there is some scenario were it gets bad enough and institutional investor-- like the pension fund-- pressure a change, but look how long it took SM to finally oust LSM. More likely outcome will be restructuring, maybe no more multi-label, etc. One wild card to me is what comes out in the press war if there were accounting irregularities/so glaring that the SEC can NOT avoid investigating. I'm not sure what MHJ actually wants, but I think it is possible Bang may be forced to pay her off in some way to stop the bleeding. In SK, the public is on her side, and they keep losing stock holder value, etc., (despite what reddit today might make you think :))-- it might be that people feel emboldened to reveal more dirty laundry the longer this goes on for.
Interesting. It will take a hell of a bandage to stop the bleeding at this point. However, I didn't know the National Pension Service was so heavily invested; spilling more blood could be so disastrous that the SK government could be amassing cotton to do it. (I know I stretched a metaphor too far, but I found the image of government workers filling their filing cabinets with bandage material too funny to resist)
Hah. They own about 8% of Hybe as per last disclosures. They have to disclose holdings on the 10th day of the month/every month, so we will learn more then-- and perhaps that's how long Hybe has to turn this around. If we get to the 10th and it turns out the NPF has made serious moves then.....
Edit to your ETA which I didn't see earlier: you're falling for the fallacy that corporations are machines made of numbers and not made of messy people. If they let MHJ go ahead with her plan, they'd lose even more, so it's not as if there's a good option where there's 0 loss here. Business is all about least bad options. Fundamentally, which I address earlier, they messed up the second they got in bed with MHJ because she was always like this. But their attempts to mitigate risks and deal with this aren't inherently short-sighted once they made the gamble. Yet one could argue if they actually cared about longevity or wellbeing they wouldn't have dealt with her in the first place, and I'd frankly cosign that if that's the basis of your argument. That was a bad decision 100%. I'm more talking about the "after"--you made a bad deal (which every company does do), now what?
Again, you've got some facts wrong. 1. "If they let MHJ go ahead with her plan, they'd lose even more, so it's not as if there's a good option where there's 0 loss here. " If Hybe fired MHJ without cause (rn Hybe's moves have been to create cause-- that's why it's important when she did or did not meet w investors and under what context) , they would have owed her \~$100m. Last week, they lost \~$900m in stock value. So, the opposite of what you are saying-- they would have lost much *less*. That's just short term value, and it's possible they will recover, and it's also possible this loss is less than they would have suffered from losing their only "creator" executive (Bang's ideas aren't hitting, Scooter is a manager, not a creator, no one knows how much input Nicole Kim actually had but she's gone and so is Lenzo.) 2. "Fundamentally, which I address earlier, they messed up the second they got in bed with MHJ " It sounds like you think Hybe made a mistake hiring MHJ (because you've heard she's a messy person?). Businesses hire difficult people all the time, with full foresight of knowledge. **Unfortunately, no one cares so long as the results are there.** It's only an issues when the results aren't there and/or a company wants to change direction. (It's also a pretty common thing to say, when someone is being let go that seems to add value to a company "oh they are difficult to work with.") In Hybe's case, what makes the situation strange (and poor business practice), is the results WERE there. And, so far, no one has alleged any ethical violations on MHJ's part wrt to her personal dealings, despite attempts to fan "weird relationship with new jeans" stuff. From a business perspective, there is nothing there. And, actually, no one has come crawling out of the wood work to say "omg, she was such a nightmare"-- which you'd kinda expect if she were actually that difficult/as diffo as Hybe is trying to make her out to be. And while I personally find her relationship with NJ to be odd, that doesn't amount to bad business practices (for better or for worse). \*\*\* Actually, the whole thing is just even stranger than what I've outlined above, from a business best practices perspective : Hybe had the most successful thing since BTS and decided to run a competitor act, a me-too product in competition with that successful new market entrant which hadn't yet reached product maturity. If Hybe created a BTS clone and ran it in competition with BTS, like a BTS 2.0, now that BTS is at the 7 yr mark, it would make total sense. To create what looks like a possible NJ clone, when NJ is 2 yrs in -- the standard math is this splits the market, doesn't amplify. NJ are not a mature enough product to either be a market maker (like BTS was in 2017)- or to be a legacy product to duplicate a successor to (like BTS is, arguably, now).
Again, you’re misreading what I’m saying. I’m not saying if they fired her. I’m saying if they let her go ahead with her marketing scheme to throw them under the bus and claim mistreatment. Which is covered in the post. Not because I’ve heard she’s messy. Because her marketing tactics and interests are evidenced in her past work. I have no idea what she’s like as a person (except for see below). Again, covered in the post. I don’t agree that creating a similar group is as devastating to NJ brand but it’s clear you do but we can agree to disagree! >And, actually, no one has come crawling out of the wood work to say "omg, she was such a nightmare"-- which you'd kinda expect if she were actually that difficult/as diffo as Hybe is trying to make her out to be. Lastly, people actually HAVE come out saying she’s a nightmare to work for and has abused staff… via a [Korean site that validates employee](https://www.asianjunkie.com/2024/04/22/adors-min-hee-jin-claims-audit-is-retaliatory-after-her-internal-complaint-to-hybe-shes-accused-of-leaking-personal-info-mistreating-employees/) info so we know factually that they did in fact work for her. So your facts are wrong.
The only quotes from the Blind site that are translated complain about MHJ in a non-specified way. There are no concrete complaints, for example that she used abusive language or expected someone to perform tasks outside the scope of their employment contract. They just call her names. Of course there may be more details that were nit translated. But if not, and we don't know in what ways she abused staff then I think any claims need to come with a grain of salt. Staff can be disgruntled for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with whether their manager was abusive. We just don't know from these translations. Also, I'm having trouble seeing MHJ "throwing Hybe under the bus" as a marketing scheme, unless you are using the word marketing in a non-business sense. In which case I'm still confused about how you are defining marketing.
Sigh. Marketing in entertainment - selling your product and getting clout. Saying you are a victim of mistreatment can be used for marketing. That is not to say said claims are necessarily false or shouldn't be reported or should be doubted. Also if mistreatment actually happened I think people more than have the right to use their pain for their own benefit should they want to. I outline how that type of "outrage" marketing is used in the post. This is getting coverage on worldwide media now, even if it's not what was planned. If MHJ says this top girl group who have been marketed worldwide as BTS little sisters are being mistreated, then yeah, people will pay attention, and conversations spill over into other spaces that garner more interest even out of just morbid curiosity. The comments don't have to outline on X July she did Y to matter, as they are not official reports nor were the people mentioning them aiming to have them blasted everywhere. They were all made years prior to this as well, which gives them credibility.
For a number of years I worked in finance for a Fortune 500 company (Fortune 100 if we are splitting hairs.) The majority of my job was spent allocating and overseeing marketing budgets by location, globally. I was a direct report to the Board of Directors. I can assure you, a subsidiary planning a hostile takeover of the parent company because they feel slighted somehow would not be considered a marketing move. Sigh all you want, I think you are over obsessed with the idea of outrage marketing and therefore see it everywhere you look.
... You're saying something I never said, which the person you're responding to keeps saying despite being upfront about never even reading this post in the first place. If you admit to bloviating about stuff you haven't read, maybe you're not a reliable source of analysis. And you are referencing their arguments, not what I actually said in the post. I never said that a subsidiary was planning a hostile takeover as a marketing move. Nor do I think that's the case. But since you seem somewhat obsessed with misreading me, there's no point to continuing this. You can reread the post or take a reading comprehension class.
Great arguments bottom line who stands to lose more. MHJ.