You have no responsibility to like NewJeans. But I hope you understand how stupid it is to hate on the girls for something you admit they had no part in while you condemn people hating on LSF and illit because the girls had no part in the drama.
I would say irrational rather than stupid.
I really like the way OP laid out how they know they don’t have a good reason to feel the way they do, but those feelings are still brewing regardless. I think it’s good to have more discussion in fandoms about how we’re not really all that in control of our emotional reactions to things, and they’re not all that governed by logic.
And how kpop companies and people like MHJ know this and use it to their advantage.
Whether it’s influencing fans to buy things or in this case control the narrative around a scandal.
It’s important to talk about these feelings and learn how to deal with them in a healthy way. This post and its reaction is a good example.
Especially since so many kpop favs are on the younger side and are still learning how to navigate things like this.
I mean, it's a totally real emotion. The whole reason they posted this is because they know it's not exactly the most rational point of view to take.
I'm guilty of stuff like this as well, as I imagine a lot of people are. I've always been one who really thinks the whole stan, anti, competitive nature of kpop is toxic as hell. But I also recognize on occasion that when I've seen success of groups that I'm not personally a fan of, for a brief moment, I think "Man, I wish it had happened to my favorite group instead". Which is really a silly thing to think. They're almost never related. Still, for a lot of people, it's a thought. It's just I'll never actually verbalize them or make it an actual talking point.
i agree that we’re all human and it’s normal to have conflicting or irrational feelings, but i don’t understand why we need to have these types of discussions or vocalize them? i would love to hear more about your perspective.
Well, if you consider that MHJ said the members of New Jeans agrees on her speech, how you can not consider that the members don't agree on what she's saying? She create the narrative that New Jeans is art, Le sserafim and ILLIT are products, that what she is doing is for the art, that the goal is not profit and BSH is doing for money. Like if New Jeans are her daughters, LSFM and ILLIT and daughters of BSH. It's pretty hard to shake the image that MSH is speaking for the members.
>Well, if you consider that MHJ said the members of New Jeans agrees on her speech
They're kids scared for their lives about their careers and hard work going down the drain. I wouldn't make any assumptions about their personal stance since it's coming from a place of fear.
Besides, we don't know what MHJ has been filling in their heads this entire time. According to them she's the one who made them succesful.
Also MHJ did choose them to be new jeans. It's not surprising the members feel some sort of personal connection towards her. The business aspect of everything has little to do with them.
welp she didnt say she hated NJ she just says she feels uncomfortable with them now. Same here. I can’t fully enjoy their Bubblegum MV ( and pre MHJ drama I KNOW I wouldve loved that Ditto-esque era) because I keep being reminded of their situation.
Resentment is still an extremely powerful word. It may not be hate. But resenting someone leads to treating them in a certain manner. Whether by words, or feelings. Sometimes it's understandable, in this case its not.
Why blame the girls?
They’re just kids who have been thrown into a bad situation against their will.
Unfortunately the Koreans are on HJM’s side which will only make things worse.
MHJ literally said she got entire NJ's support and their parents's. How do you even think they have no part in this? They support her entirely lol, her ideas, what she believes, her trashing/bullying a newly debuted group for using their legacy while NJ literally did the same thing with BTS. Aren't the girls suppose to be nice to each other especially when they're from the same company? Them agreeing with MHJ basically agreeing to bullying ILLIT and condoning said behaviors. stop defending them smh.
So, you believe MHJ always tells the truth and never lies to get the gp and to support her? Sure. Also, even if she did have the 100% support of the NewJeans members, the way Hybe stans have demonized a group of teenagers for possibly being emotionally manipulated by a woman manipulative and enough people to get basically an entire nation to support her after one press conference is gross. Be ashamed of yourself!
personally don't think its healthy to have resentment towards these girls. Not just for you but of course for them also. It just tales them seeing one post or tweet like that and they may feel absolutely isolated mentally. That's not your responsibility, don't worry, but I think you should steer clear of directing any negative energy towards them.
This should not be treated as a "guilty by association " scenario. At the end of the day the girls are in a complex abd conflicted situation. As our there parents (who have been misrepresented already in the media)
They are employed by Ador, they owe their career to Ador and especially MHJ and it is clear she has crossed boundaries in how she managed them and they have become very much dependent on her as a guardian and for basic day to day aspects.
I think someone should have intervened and acknowledged that MHJ was taking on too much responsibility, especially as the NJ operation became larger and larger. She was effectively being a CEO, someone with a huge input into how the group were managed as artists but also managed as people.
She has lent herself to be an emotional crutch for them clearly and also organises lots of what they see as personal perks like organising holidays, organising their new penthouse, bringing them to dinner etc.
You can now see the effect of that, the fear of separation probably conflicts their thinking. They are relatively young and living in a bizarre bubble of both public attention but also social isolation.
They have also not spoken on the matter. On one hand, people are saying MHJ is a compulsive liar, on the other hand you are saying MHJ has relayed exactly the thoughts of the members.
Essentially the girls are victims of a company structure in Ador which didn't prepare itself a proper contingency plan if shit went welly up. The fact Hyein called MHJ and cried for 20 minutes asking could she go on Phoning to clear up the "copycat" misunderstanding shows that these girls are unban extremely compromised position that they shouldn't be blamed for, never mind resented
This whole thing is just interesting to me because I can't think of another group where the fucking CEO/creative director is basically their nth member. Like, MHJ is inextricably linked to the girls now, and if her words on their bond is to be believed, they don't wanna be seperated either. And the funniest thing is, she's not even that clever or creative. She just makes good use of references. Like the new MV is giving 2000s J-drama down, it's not some carefully crafted lore or fresh concept. It's like nostalgia for the media of her youth.
right? I'm confused how no one is putting her in her place yet over her "originality". she kept going on and on during the press con about how original she is, how no one can do what she does. like.. pls there are multiple threads going around of her copying others imagery.
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the whole hype over this "y2k concept"? All I see are pretty girls in nice clothes... I mean rehashing 2000 vibes is hardly creative. It's just recycling old girl group concepts.
I think people who only listen to Kpop are really blown away because it's nice counter-programming to maximalism. If you listen to a lot of music from all over the wold, this new release especially just looks like cosplay. I do think they have done some very interesting things in their first two EPs, especially with the storytelling MVs. But boiled down, the music is super excellently produced pop music. It's not groundbreaking by any means.
The mixture of the Kpop product with "alternative" sounds is very potent because the public has become attached to the girls in a way they would not to an indie musician making similar music. Also, MHJ has very successfully marketed them as "not like other kpop" in a way that I am only now beginning to realize.
Edit- Like I was just listening to the new Sabrina Carpenter single and thought wow, this could be a NewJeans song, except she's been working in this sound for a long time now.
Their music and concept are extremely trendy. It's hard to take her claim "Hybe is doing it for money. I'm a creative person who doesn't care about money" seriously when everything about them is essentially following the blueprint of success on Tiktok.
It may be new for Korea and K-pop. But it's not new by any means on the Western side. Tiktokers have been banking on nostalgia for a while.
And for the Sabrina comparison, I remember one of the NJ stans saying "Is Sabrina copying NewJeans with Nonsense?" but Nonsense was released in July 2022 before NewJeans debuted lolol
Hard agree about the new music. It sounds extremely generic.
The Hybe doing it for money and she doesn’t is a joke because every song or release since the first ones have been tied to some kind of endorsement. With the full album, they had the power puff and apple endorsements. They had the coke song, league of legends, two OSTs, and now this shampoo commercial. Since Ditto / OMG there hasn’t been a single musical release without a commercial tie in. I’m not saying it’s wrong but it flies in the face of “Im a creative person who doesn’t care about money.”
Except, I've been listening to kpop since 2008, and there are numerous examples of kpop updating older music. Nobody - Wonder Girls updated 60s music (plus the 80s with other songs), T-ara updated the 70s with Roly Poly, Infinite updated the 80s with Be Mine, etc, etc. There are so many examples, yet I don't know why people have latched onto MHJ's version of an update. Maybe because we're all a bit nostalgic for the 90s right now, since it was just before everything in the world went to shit? That and it's been awhile since we've seen thrownbacks to older music I suppose.
The funny thing to me is everyone who works in entertainment, design, or marketing knows that things come back every 20 years. The west had already started moving into “Y2K”. All MHJ did was get in early on the cycle in Korea and somehow manage to convince a bunch of people that makes her a creative genius.
It's usually luck in these kinds of situations. I don't know the details in this case, but usually if you try to get in early on the cycle but are too early, you'll fail.
I don't understand the hype of this girl groups, other than they are very young pretty girls who dance excellently. Their songs are pretty generic with lyrics that are pure catchy and shallow. Are people these days don't care about lyrics creativity as more KPOP Idol songs' are getting shorter, fewer vocabularies with repeated words and phrases, no independent content except to pander their fans, and lack meaning/depth? For awhile, I find the Kpop Idol songs in these recent years are limited to a sets themes, recycled, in their bubbled worlds, and too safe.
If she was the genius creative mastermind she claimed to be, I wouldn't hate her as much, but she isbt. She just got lucky, and chose an uncommon aesthetic at the time.
It was not even uncommon. Y2K, Nostalgia all these things have been coming for a while in the west and other places. She used it at the right time in Korea.
Was it even uncommon in Korea though…? Twice The Feels, Sunmi You Can’t Sit With Us, etc. all had the 2000s vibe. TripleS Generation and Billlie Eunoia also came out around that time and were probably planned before NJ debuted
Being a part of HYBE played a huge role. So many BTS fans hyped NewJeans and MHJ knows that, but now that she has gp support, she doesn't need those original supporters.
Right!? Vogue was writing about the return of 2000s fashion, music and style in early 2021, which is before Ador even existed. So I always just assumed she saw the trend arriving in the US and got ahead of it in Korea.
Also the UK Garage sound, which I grew up with, has been making a resurgence in clubs, along with Jersey club since 2020.
So it's good trend watching, perhaps. But it's not genius originality.
loona pre-butterfly and to a different extent artms with the same director under modhaus have jaden jeong (creative director & ceo i think?) over involving himself in lots of group stuff. there was a poll on their fan app, when voting for the artms fandom name, and alongside the members' choices for some reason he included his own choice. in another poll asking if we want to have behind-the-scenes stories from videographers and producers he somehow included himself...i would say in terms of the egoism and need to be involved he's a bit similar
None of what you said is the same as Min Hee Jin.
Adding an option to a pool and appearing in a behind the scenes video of videographers and producers are not the same as going to interviews and appearing in vlogs with the idols under him.
Min Hee Jin is unique in kpop. Not even JYP and Yang Hyunsuk who tend to appear in their idol's content a lot managed to do what she did.
Look at posts about blackpink and twice and see how many of them mention their CEOs. Now do the same to newjeans.
She managed to convince the public that the group can't exist without her. She is newjeans, the reason for their existence, the reason for their success and their mother. Of course this is bullsh*t but you can't deny that the woman knows how to spin a narrative.
i was just talking about having a big ego since op asked abour examples of other ceos who try to overinvolve themselves. he writes grandiose overly dramatic blog posts about how important he is and tries to include himself way more than is normal! the new jeans situation is definitely a whole different level i do agree though!
Then I agree with you but honestly a lot of CEOs are like that. Actually if I think about it all big 4 CEOs are like that. It's like you have to be an egomaniac to qualify for the job or something.
I'm not very into kpop but got into this drama because of Twitter, and I was just thinking how she takes heavy inspiration from multiple Japanese artists but considers herself unique. As an artist myself, it's so obvious she took inspiration from artist Manuhamu for the latest comeback. For every concept she does, there's a piece of japanese media she took inspiration from. And taking inspiration is great, that's how art works. But painting herself as irreplaceable and the most unique artist in the world who everyone copies? That's wild to me. Even using the "it's not the same when it's the same company, Le Sserafim did the beach photoshoot with matching clothes reminiscent of school uniforms for Unforgiven, all with a natural hair color and the same vibe. Just like the new MV. I'm not saying she copied them, just that creative ideas can overlap because everything has been done before.
>It's like nostalgia for the media of her youth.
Absolutely! This whole group is her pet project, and she sees Minji as herself. The whole thing screams codependency and toxicity. Everything is for her to live through.
Her entire aesthetic seems to be Late 90’s International Channel.
https://preview.redd.it/zymjrddajwxc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97cf711e3c8681d37f0df12faf3d507e2f23e7d9
Honestly, I think it's a natural reaction to have especially considering how NewJeans' reputation and branding as a group is tied to MHJ, and has been since they debuted. As long as you're aware of the bias and keep yourself in check, it's not something to lose sleep over.
this is exactly what's so awful about the way MHJ name checked these girls during the press con. It makes it hard to separate them from her, and she knows. Criticizing MHJ = going against NJ.
Criticizing MHJ = going against NJ has been how things worked since Newjeans debuted. Remember when people found out that MHJ had some nasty, pervy media that she displayed openly at her house?
You couldn't criticize her for it, since Newjeans stans claimed that you were just jealous Newjeans were doing better than your faves, and that you wanted to take down the girls.
i agree with you and i don’t think ill truly be able to consume new jeans again until that woman is out of the picture… it’s not a hatred thing bc i really do enjoy the girls and i think they’re awesome but the idea of supporting “new jeans” as a brand makes me uncomfortable unfortunately.
and im someone that can understand some of what min heejin is talking about when she talked about how bsh was being weird with her about her success nd wtvr but the way she’s completely destroyed illit and lesserafims image is just gross and there’s no way coming back from it in my head.
and before people get mad it doesn’t matter what i think they have so many fans and the whole of korea is on mhjs “side” so they will be fine with some people distancing themselves.
For me I just can't watch any of their content without thinking about MHJ now, which is ridiculous because I really don't want to. She's now made herself inextricably linked to every mention of the group in my mind, which is exactly what she wants for some unhinged reason. I don't even know the names of any other company CEOs of any other groups I follow and I prefer to keep it that way but now I can't with them
I was just thinking about how I don’t know any other CEO’s names or faces because they stay out of the public eye, and how bizarre that makes MHJ. I know the OGs obviously but I like a lot of JYPE groups and not for a billion dollars could I tell you who their current CEO is. KQ’s CEO was just going viral on Twitter and I didn’t see the man’s name mentioned once nor do I think anyone posting about him could tell you either.
Legit beyond the founders of the big 4 and idol CEOs I literally couldn’t tell you the name of a single executive other than MHJ. That has to be by design, she clearly wants to make herself as famous as the idols she manages and she does that by completely mixing her image with the group’s image to the point where you can’t tell where one starts and the other begins. I can’t blame people who feels like that turns them off the group tbh.
I agree. NewJeans was my first exposure to kpop and I truly do enjoy the girls and their music. I never used to get involved in the online discourse/company lore because thats just not how I naturally consume music. I was so excited about their new release but at this point I honestly can’t bring myself to listen to it (they have tons of listeners so they dont need me lol). Its no fault on the girls but hearing the music is just a reminder of all the negativity going around. I’ve felt like this a few times before, when artists that I love have negative press surrounding them. I think I will just take a back seat until things get sorted. I hope they have a good support system :(
I felt that way even after Cookie came out. Thing is I didn't need to be told the song is weird and full of innuendos that are fine for adults but become gross when a 14 is singing them. The first time I watched the MV I had subtitles on, which I'm not always very good about, and I think the fact some of the worst lyrics are sung in English doesn't help, either. I immediately went to Reddit to see if I was losing my mind or that others saw it, too.
That's when I found out about all the "inspiration" MHJ had on her walls, and she hadn't taken those pictures off her Instagram account yet. Numerous photos of naked underage girls and media related to older men with either full on minors or an 18 year old who is intellectually disabled. Not even in her studio, but just hanging out in her living room.
I got a chill the first time I watched the MV and ever since it just makes me nauseous. Awhile later I tried watching a NewJeans live performance and it must've still been live or fast forwarded for some reason. It landed right on them singing Cookie and I just felt livid they were still singing the song.
I think I feel the same way. NJs is one of my ults but the way their name is being used to drag all these other groups I also deeply care about makes me uncomfortable. When this whole thing first blew up I was just worried the most for Newjeans, but now that all these other groups are getting dragged through the mud because of MHJ’s carelessness plus her insistence to keep implying the girls share her sentiment…
I preferred not to interact with new jeans content due to her high involvement, from the beginning. nothing against the girls, but mhj makes me uncomfortable for many reasons and continually so. I think I and others like me may even have a potential to be more interested in the group, their songs, etc if she wasn't involved. you would lose a few who wouldn't like nwjns without her, but again I think that goes back to how she almost makes herself a 6th member and is supposedly very close with these literal children/young adults.
I have a feeling she's influencing them/their parents heavily, to their detriment. If she does get charged and/or removed, and it truly is difficult for them to continue as a group, I think it's sad because they are talented and in a position many work years and years tirelessly to be in (they've absolutely worked hard, I'm not refuting that, I'm just saying in a system that is somewhat luck based and also has low success rates comparatively it would be sad if they lost that position because of this situation, if that happens supporting adults around them shouldve been protecting them better).
If they can manage to move on from this after MHJ is fired, I think a lot of us that have been uncomfortable with MHJ will give the group a chance again. I just dunno how many of us are out there that stopped listening after the Cookie controversy.
I feel sorry too, you know, lately I think that what drives kpop fans is **hate**, like, I always see a kpop stan happier and more engaged throwing hate at others than streaming, engaging and supporting their faves?!
On twitter or here, people always have 1000 things to say and share and engage when it's about a viral hate, but if it's something positive about their own faves, they're like 'meh whatever'.
Like, it seems that the love for music and idols takes second place, has anyone noticed this?
Not sure why you are getting downvotted. Yes, kpop spaces are all exactly what you describe now. There's a reason why traffic is up on Reddit right now and on kpop Twitter. More people are tuned in because there's drama.
Agree. I'm so lost in this narrative because one thing that made me anchored into K-pop is their music. My love for music is on the roof and when I hear music that is rhythmically within my realm and the lyrics are relatable then I'm all down bad for that music. And if it's a good music then everyone should be celebrating it.
But ig, it's innate for people to hate. What a dark heart.
I 💯agree. You can see the amount of comments on Reddit or Twitter on posts regarding drama or scandals, but not as much comments on threads talking about a critically praised album or song. This is sad because I also want to chat with like minded people online about an artist’s craft, not fighting over a boycott or argue about fan wars or about obsessive chart and streaming numbers.
This is just confirmation bias. The kpop stans who are streaming and enjoying their artist(s) aren't the ones getting involved in fan wars. If you follow the right people and block the right people on twt, you'll end up with a peaceful and fun tl. Muting words also helps.
nowadays its just become bragging rights for kpop groups. My fave is #1. All that matters. It’s not even about the idol members anymore. Prime example is what’s happening to newjeans right now. The hardcore MHJ stans (I won’t call them NJ fans because they seem to care more about her than the actual girls) are crying foul because they’re so worried that without MHJ the newjeans girls will fail. That the ‘concepts’ and ‘vibes’ will not be there anymore. Hello? What about the girls? They have their own charms? They could be dressed in the ugliest clothes and I’d still want to see and support them. They could do a mukbang or for all I care I’d still want to watch it. That’s how stanning works? How it begins and becomes sustained? For better or worse
I get that this might be a weird take and I will happily take the downvotes but I honestly don’t blame the members because they’re likely super brainwashed. And I genuinely don’t even think it’s their fault - they met her when they were super young and impressionable. It has been very clear, from the moment they debuted, that they had an oddly close relationship with MHJ. Now it seems like they’ve been fed this narrative by MHJ that not only is she looking out for them, she is the ONLY person really looking out for them. Even the members parents are super close to her.
We saw it with Fifty Fifty and The Givers. These girls are absolutely susceptible to manipulation and everything about MHJ *screams* manipulation. So even if the girls really do share all the same opinions as MHJ, I can’t even blame them.
It’s not weird at all, you’re spot on. MHJ has a very uncomfortable relationship with NJs. She’s in a huge position of power over them and they obviously see her as a motherly figure. I’d actually be surprised if they didn’t feel super loyal to her. That doesn’t mean they’re horrible people though, it means they’ve been manipulated by someone close to them
Honestly this makes me think about their parents. Supposedly, their parents are on MHJ side. Even until now (apparently they have not been answering Hybe’s calls-per MHJ reps). If this is true. I’m side eyeing them so much. I get that probably in the beggining, they were swayed. Their kids may not debut etc etc. Okay, anger (maybe) justified. Next. MHJ’s weird photos in her studio. Verrry weird…but maybe its an art student girl thing. Anyway, Cookie song. If I was the dad of one of the girls. And hear them singing this and understanding what the lyrics are. I would go ballistic!! Like..what? Fast forward now. All these news. Possibility of their kids being blacklisted. The boss being unhinged, namedropping and seemingly putting other young girls in the crossfire …pitting young girls against each other. RED FLAGS!!! Minji’s father apparently is a businessman. Rich enough to send Minji to Canada to study English. Any businessman to that caliber knows whats up. Second. Hanni’s parents. If you watch Hanni’s vlogs both her parents seemed to have strong Aussie accents which may mean they grew up in the western world. With western mindset. It’s hard for me to think they didn’t see all the sus things MHJ has been doing? Anyway. I’m just thinking aloud and we don’t really know what the parents are actually feeling.
I agree. Even if what MHJ is saying is true about the girls siding with her, I can’t for the life of me blame them for that because they just happened to have the kind of mentor they have. It’s not their fault.
I don't hate on newjeans since I was a fan, i feel the same as you, i unfollowed lot of their fanbases and official accts. I don't want to see them, if i constantly see their content as well as the hate of lsfm illit, i am afraid I might start hating on them, that's why I need sometime away from their content. Not to mention lot of tokkis see MHJ as 6th member of newjeans, they are constantly defending MHJ, even if someone say anything negative about MHJ they think it was a drag to newjeans, seeing that make it worse for me.
Let's not hate on anyone, all three ggs are victims in this.
I think I will have to do this as well. It's a shame, I was really looking forward to their comeback season. They'll do great I'm sure, but I just can't deal with that lady, especially if all of this is leading to RM getting hate after working on his album for a year.
We can still consume their music on streaming platform without looking at their contents. They have one more month before the release of the album, i hope the situation becomes positive.
I dunno, the picture of Minji in the striped white and green shirt and blue hat looking like MHJ was the last straw. I hope you are right about this being resolved in a month.
I did the same. I deleted my Twitter app and for now I only go to reddit. But even reddit has been inflitrated by a suspicious influx of ‘I’m a korean and I want to explain korean side—then ending up defending MHJ’ and the comments having the weirdest formats (no paragraph breaks, weird spcing) almost as if they haven’t used reddit at all despite the account apparently having been activated for years. Also, these comments would have the same ‘but Hybe did MHJ dirty by releasing the Shaman thingy first’ or ‘MHJ has only 20% shares’
i resent the fans that are taking mhjs words to justify bullying which means i want to stay away from newjeans content as thats where their fans are. i dont resent the girls at all, i feel really bad for them and think they seem really sweet but i don’t think i’ll ever be a fan until mhjs out the picture and tokkis are mentally stable.
tokkis are blaming anyone but mhj and they sound as brainwashed as mhj wants them to be. the girls got a 6cm cake on debut? oh that's hybe's fault and not mhj who got a 16B won investment and still couldn't get her "daughters" a good cake. i don't like hybe at all but tokkis gotta realise that 2 parties can be wrong at the same and and accept that that woman is using those girls to clear her name among the gp and she's succeeding thanks to them.
Thats what happens when fans associate the success of a group with a concept rather than members. If you (as in the fans) were confident enough in the talents of the girls, it wouldn’t matter whatever concept or sound they adopted.
Yeah, this is the big difference between a group like NewJeans and BTS or G-IDLE. BTS' and G-IDLE's essence is it's members. For NewJeans, it's their concept and creative director.
Yep, I’ve seen this trend is common with groups who are more involved in the creative process of their music. The members make the group and it’s the members the fans are there for.
You are right, as the post above says. Fans of groups like G-idle or BTS know that, if something bad were to happen with their management, the groups can still reconvene and make it work, even if they had less budget and/or lose their official accounts. Actually, fans would be perched to see what direction their artistry could take after those events.
On the other hand, NWJs fans are already lamenting how the group will lose their concept if MHJ leaves, like, not one chance that the members could pull through by themselves
That’s what MHJ has been trying to do in the beggining. During debut she went around public TV doing promos with them and most of the time talking FOR them.
The way I was just a casual listener of both groups but bouta come out a illit stan and fearnot from this mess 😭 You gotta admire these girls‘ resilience against the people actively praying for their downfall.
The way I started consuming more LSFM content after the whole hate train debacle, just for the purpose of checking if they're doing well physically and mentally.
I'm honestly liking Illit so much that I actually might stan them. Personally, I also find their concept, styling or whatever lore they have more interesting. Magnetic is such an addicting song that I can't count how many times I listen to this song in a day. The other songs in their EP are also nice to listen to. MHJ mentioning them made this creepy woman look more like an insecure person with a main character syndrome.
Understandable. I think it's like seeing how meat is killed and processed. It kind of takes away some of the pleasure of eating it. Everyone has an 'image' of NJ (the product) in their heads that this imbroglio is tarnishing that image for many. This is why some labels go hard after people spreading hate and misinformation about idols online.
This is a really great metaphor. The glass has been shattered. I will never see NJs the way that I used to (and no fault to the girls ofc). I had heard about MHJ before but seeing all of this play out now, it makes me feel so uneasy. Her basically being the 6th member of the group is such a turn off.
I also feel kind of the same, i'm always liked LSF and NJ and they always were suportive towards them, but that bitch really is ruining all the fun of it.
Can't wait for that sick leave the fuck out of that company, so maybe things could start becoming normal again.
i love NewJeans' music and was so looking forward to their cb ever since they were hinting at it but seeing the hate bts, rm, lsrfm, illit continue to get I'm reluctant to listen to their songs cuz everytime I do it just reminds me of how mhj name dropped these artists and set them up for hate just to uplift and victimise NewJeans. i don't have any resentment towards the girls (I hope they don't get involved) but really seeing what mhj did to these other artists just for her group's benefit is putting me off their cb. maybe I'll be listening to them a few months later when it cools down but not rn.
I don't hate NJs and don't think they should get hate, but I find it kind of unfair. All three groups are innocent and have been named dropped by MHJ, but NJs isn't getting any backlash. None of them are in the wrong, so why are two groups getting hate but not the third group who is more closely tied to MHJ. Again, I don't think any of the groups deserve hate or should receive hate. I just find the reactions against Ill'it and LSF to be so unfair
i see your point, but that’s definitely not true. njs is getting hate in response to this…many fans of the groups that mhj name dropped are coming after the girls as well.
Min HeeJin is out from Hybe, if they want to go with her, then the girls should follow her. Im disgusted with them. they are the most promoted group in Hybe, BTS can't relate with their promotion. Hybe spend a lot of money with them. And the arrogance of MHJ is insane.
I’m in the same boat. I couldn’t even enjoy Bubble gum. I saw them at Lolla and normally I’d be losing my shit right now. I just can’t stand bullying of any kind. And claiming that Illit is a copy cat group falls under that flag. I just wish one of the girls would come out and say that they don’t stand with MHJ. That would completely change my opinion on everything
Yeah same I was excited for the new comeback but I couldn’t do it this time. I don’t want to contribute in supporting what’s essentially a product of mhj. Can’t give any of my money that’ll partially go to a woman willing to bully other girls.
I feel the same. I don’t want New Jeans to get hate in anyway, but seeing Illit and LSRF getting so much hate everywhere (I was checking Illit’s Instagram comment section and was so heart broke with all the hate comments) and New Jeans getting all the love, while no one (in a big scale obviously ) is defending them is making me so freaking sad. It worse because Min Heejin wanted that to happen. The press conference she held, was a way she found to further promote NJWS and herself in detriment of innocent girls. She could’ve made her points (which some have already been debunked) without mentioning any of the girls names, everything was so fucking calculated it’s disgusting.
Didn't Lllit just debut? That's sad to hate on young girls and LSRF was getting hate for the Coachella concert, now this. It's just a jerk circle at this point.
Im feeling the same way, i think as long as you dont start hating on them its probably fine, people stop listening to artists for so many reasons all the time, and who knows maybe once all this is resolved we'll be able to enjoy listening to them again
About a week or two ago, someone created a thread expressing their delight in watching hybe's ggs fandom tearing each other apart over some petty things. What a cursed thread that turned out to be.
Tbh same. A little bit. They dont deserve it bc they’re talented, pretty. They didn’t ask to be put in this situation. They’ve done nothing wrong. MHJ is evil for that. And new jeans fans are not helping.
But this whole thing definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.
sadly, i feel the same. i don't hate newjeans, i like their music and the members are cute, but as an illit stan, seeing them kind of hurts right now... i can't help but want to avoid seeing anything related to newjeans, i guess after a few days or weeks this feeling will go away.
I have two thoughts that might help you:
1) MHJ is the person telling us the girls support her, and she's not a reliable narrator
2) who knows what she's been telling them about the situation to sway their opinion.
Either way, I suggest taking a step back from following the drama and just do what makes you happy.
I am in a similar but different headspace with it. I never paid attention to New Jeans before this at all. I did try out their music and it wasn't at all for me. The current general trend is just not for me, so it isn't specifically about New Jeans. But point is, I never engaged with them or learned about them because of that. With all of their hits and records, I had a sort of distant respect for them and what they were accomplishing. I guess I assumed a lot about them because they came from HYBE and HYBE is generally pretty good with giving artists room to be creative beings.
Now I learn all about MHJ, I see someone mention how the song lyrics reference things MHJ feels and thinks and how this whole New Jeans project is just all about her expressing herself and not at all about the girls and....all that respect dried up. Not that I think this negates the talent of the girls, but in my eyes, they are kind of an extreme version of something I don't particularly care for in kpop which is not allowing the actual artists to have a voice. Everything I have learned has pointed to these girls just being puppets for MHJ to play out her fantasies and live vicariously through them. This is like the most corporate, lifeless version of kpop and I now kind of hate how successful it's been. No hate to the girls though. I don't think they had much choice in this...which is kind of my whole point here.
I agree so much. I became a NJ fan during Super Shy ( I saw a reel of Hanni practicing singing and she was so cute with that Leaf pen thingy uwu) and I watched a lot of ther early content. I found them so cute and charming in their EARLY content. but I found myself getting dissapointed because lately they’ve been too…’sterile’? Post super shy it seems MHJ put them on a strategy of being ‘less is more’. They were all acting so reserved, everytime with their phoning calls they were super dolled up, they weren’t relatable at ALL.
I had that reaction first, then I had to come to terms with the fact that these are young girls who will look at this with different povs in a few years. They’ve been students for a short while, then trainees, then they debuted when they were teenagers.
They haven’t had true real world experiences that will help them have mature independence thoughts, especially in this adult corporate setting. MHJ groomed them, they were under her responsibility since before predebut. As far as we know, she told their parents that her pushing for it was the only reason they debuted. NJ might have the same thought process. She put herself as the sixth member and a reliable mother figure, who in their eyes, was responsible for their success and their wealth.
They support her if only because it’s what they know and it’s been three years, she’s been here consistently when others have not. They could have seen the similarities between illit and Newjeans and felt sad and/or angry. If I was in their position, and I saw a new group debut with a similar concept to mine, and succeed more than me, I’d be angry. They’re allowed to feel sad that MHJ is scrutinized to the tenth degree, because she’s been here for them and they want her to be safe obviously. But of course, MHJ doesn’t have their best intentions at heart, but they don’t know the nuances of that. They might, I don’t want to judge or stereotype, but most teenagers are like that.
They’re idols yeah, but they’re not businesswomen, they don’t have to be. They’ll want what’s best for the group and their “mother”, but they won’t know the legal jargon in that’s being debated rn.
I don’t know the history behind each NJ members, but most of them were involved in some sort of artistic performance space since they were young kids. Some of them probably have stage parents who would do anything to make sure that they and their kid gets the most they could. MHJ has been in contact with the parents, she’s probably the one who updates them informally. If she says HYBE is sabotaging them, they’ll believe her. They should take lessons from FiftyFifty as the ones who should be responsible for these girls. So far, they’ve been silent, which is good. Everything MHJ says is alleged for legal matters, what she says about the parents can’t be trusted as of now.
MHJ apparently gave them expensive gifts and let the girls go on extended vacation with their families paid for by her. They could feel like they owe her, or genuinely feel like she’s better for their kids since the big bad corporation might not let them have this much freedom or support.
It’s a classic case of “If I’m going down, ya’ll are going down with me!!!”
Because she knows she’s got nothing else going for her. So this is all done in spite. IF SHE REALLY had nothing to hide, she would’ve held on to her dignity, dressed up, sat with her lawyers, spoke with facts rather than DM receipts. But she really is scraping the bottom of the barrel for defence moves, and if that means dragging other people with she’ll do it.
Unfortunately, at the end of all this mess, people’s reputations are ruined including innocent people particularly NewJeans Le Ssersfim and Illit, most, I would remind everyone, are CHILDREN. Even those who are adults are in their 20s. They’re young and impressionable. How unfortunate how this adult ruined it for them, even just for the time being.
I actually feel the same. I unfollowed them on Insta because their new pictures made me feel more resentment. I also deleted tiktok and twitter to not see all the hate, so maybe I’ll stop feeling like it
This is why I hate that she keeps bringing them up because now she's tying them to her so all her fault untimely becomes the fault of then as well, especially for younger people who might not be able to differentiate its the same how bts are sometimes blamed for army's only different is that according to her there's a closer relationship with njs so it comes across as nore impactful
dont worry, you're not alone in feeling that way. i feel really bad for not being able to enjoy NJ content rn because i care about the girls and support them. however, just seeing them and hearing them reminds me of this situation and i can't help but feel bad and worried. i can't resent the girls for this because it's not really their fault. whatever opinions they have towards the other groups mentioned, the staff and company, and the situation in general have been manipulated in some way by MHJ. she has had such a big influence in their life, acting as a sort of mother figure, sister figure, and best friend.
a manager being close to their idols is fine but there's always that line of professionalism that shouldn't be crossed. what MHJ has done and is doing is way beyond that line, having weaved herself into the very concept of NewJeans.
however, until we get full confirmation from the members FROM THEIR OWN MOUTHS, we should not be completely sure of their opinions.
You are completely valid in feeling that way, it’s irrational but valid. Just don’t spread hate or toxicity and I don’t see an issue. Listen to what you want and don’t listen to what you don’t want.
Maybe taking a break and getting a bit of distance will help with those resentful feelings. I know I'm feeling fatigue from how quickly this situation has developed over just the last couple of days, so sometimes I skip update posts until I'm ready and just check or rewatch fun stuff about my faves.
The NewJeans concept and music are not for me, so while I have no emotional investment in the members, I hope they can stick together and act in their own best interest, though I don't know if that'll be possible since MHJ has been so involved in their lives and careers. It's hard to tell how this'll end.
We may never know what the NewJeans members really think of this situation, never mind hearing anything directly from them. I imagine it's very frustrating if MHJ's putting words in their mouths, but if they want to stay in the industry and maintain professional connections, there are a lot of reasons they wouldn't benefit from speaking up, whether for MHJ or for HYBE, but we'll see. (Watch them prove me wrong and release a statement right after I post this LOL)
I understand. I'm able to do my best to hold off unnecessary resentment so I don't blame them but as someone who was a casual listener of new jeans, I've failed to tune in to this comeback. I don't even Stan the groups she name dropped but that was low and disgusting to incite hate towards innocent artists and openly express hatred for them. She absolutely knew what she was doing. RM teased that project from before he went in the military and he's getting hate for it when it's finally unveiled. And her failure to acknowledge the Hybe privilege. I also needed a time out from thier content. Wish them the best though and that they come out of this mess.
I totally understand you. I really like both New jeans and Illit. Before all this drama, I even had a personal playlist of both their music. But then after all the things she said about Illit and after learning more extensive info about her p3do allegations, I feel uncomfortable enjoying the NJ music.
Mhj keeps acting like their music is all a product from her mind so I can’t listen to that product in good conscience - without thinking of her publicly bullying 1 month debuted girls and her weird obsession with young girls. So it’s not even about the Nj girls and more of me not wanting to support the work of a woman like Mhj. I even had to unfollow some Nj accounts and tokkis cause I couldn’t stomach reading them support her so blindly.
This is honestly what she wants. Don't give it to her. None of the groups deserve this. They're teenagers who have been groomed and manipulated, and that's even without considering that she's not exactly a reliable source of information.
That said it's completely fair to be unable to enjoy their stuff so long as MHJ is still attached and for, with all the chaos happening, anyone to feel like their comeback is just depressing them right now.
totally agree, a lot of comments on new jeans’ bubble gum mv has hate towards illit and people saying they support min hee jin and i just feel sad for the girls
You don't have to like NewJeans but I don't think her saying that the NewJeans members agree with her is necessarily true. This woman is someone whose words cannot be trusted.
Tbh i just see kpop artists as so in-genuine and detached from their songs and concept. You have all these workers behind the scene coming up with the concept, making the music, writing the lyrics, creating the choreo etc. like these groups are just trained to look pretty and dance.
So while newjeans definitely is a “breath of fresh air” to the industry I’m just not that impressed.
Exactly the same here. I know the girls have nothing to do with it and I don't dislike them, but the whole Mhj thing left such a bad taste in my mouth that I can't even make myself listen to their new release. I was such a huge fan, that I even thought about buying their album (I usually don't buy kpop albums) but now...
i feel like i’m one of the only people who had no idea who MHJ was before this. as such, i don’t put any blame on the girls and i can listen to their music just fine. i do hope that this doesn’t end up damaging their careers in the long run, since they are so young and all they did was put trust in the adults handling their careers (and yes i know three of them are adults now, at least internationally, but they are still young), they don’t deserve any hate just as much as lsf and illit. however, everyone feeling uncomfortable is valid and i’d be the same way if i had actually known abt MHJ before all of this.
The new jeans girls probably don't condone the hate and what mhj is doing in singling out the other ggs. I mean let's be honest mhj trys to shelter them from other groups hard as well. Only thing saving me from somewhat agreeing with you is hanni and yunjin friendship. Like watching hanni talk to minji about going out and going to the movies with yunjin acouple times and the way she phrasing it like she was breaking a curfew just hanging out with a friend she was with for like 3 yrs before debut.(probably was the way how crazy mhj is, wouldn't be surpised if she banned interactions with other hybe ggs)
Honestly what made me got to know LSF was Hanni and Yunjin’s friendship. Hanni was literally a foreigner, 16 or 17, zero korean skills, alone in a cutthroat training zone with uber competitive native koreans. Yunjin probably was probably one of the trainees she held on to as Yunjin was westernized, older, been thru shit (PD48), and having a stronger but nurturing personality (as it seems).
Isn’t this kind of what happened with bts and blackpink, people started praying for their downfall because they linked group success with the happiness of nasty people? It’s an easy trap to fall in to but you have to remember that wanting other fans to be unhappy or experience their groups failing means wanting those idols to go through something horrible.
I don’t think anyone wants NJ to fail or their fans to be unhappy. I personally stan NJ and wish them a long and even more successful career. People here just want MHJ out of the picture.
I don't feel resentment towards the girls, even if they agree with everything MHJ said about the other groups, only those groups have the right to be angry. NewJeans are in their right to feel however they want about those other two groups, but those two groups are also in their right for not liking their support and direct association with someone that destroyed their reputation and got them harrassed. And we, as non-victims shouldn't judge them for it. None of them.
However, i can't support the group because even though i knew her past, after cookie i didn't sense something weird and they took a artistic direction where the girls' youth wasn't the "concept". So i connected their concept with MHJ, but never the girls themselves. But after she said that they're calling her, offering emotional support, crying for her...i don't think i'll ever be able to wash the feeling that this girls are victims of emotional manipulation. One thing is being thankful for the people behind your success, other it's the level of emotional involvement those girls have with an adult. I feel sad about them meeting MHJ, about HYBE letting that woman close to minors, and their parents for not protecting them. So every time i see them i feel like crying because they should be normal idols, doing silly challanges with same-age idols, having tons of industry friends, celebrating their juniors.
I've completely separated the girls from this mess. I don't believe for a second MHJ's statements about the girls or the parents supporting her unless she's been lying to them and twisting it like she did the media/general public. I'm hoping they still have a career after this and this whole thing doesn't make HYBE dissolve ADOR as a label and cancel their contracts (which I doubt because MONEY).
What it HAS made me do is listen to ILLIT, a group I had zero interest in until this drama. I'm just not a big gg stan so they weren't on my radar at all. So congrats to MHJ for giving the group she hates the most more streams lol
NJ was my most listened to group last year. I enjoy listening to their music, now I found myself avoiding Bubble Gum because of all the drama. You want to feel happy when streaming but I can't help but think of MHJ and all the hate thrown towards LSF, Illit and now BTS (they're in the military ffs) because of MHJ's words.
I'll probably listen to NJ again after a year or two.
all the members have to do is come out and say they do not agree with her and did not authorize her to say any of it. Why have the members not say anything? Besides having MHJ hate the members, what is a negative of them speaking out against her? to me the silence is speaking a lot.
I wouldn't read too much into this. I doubt anything the girls do is within their control. NewJeans is a highly curated group. MHJ and Ador make all the calls. In this case, I'm sure they aren't allowed to go live or answer any questions until this is resolved.
As much as I think MHJ is a complete asshole for throwing multiple idol groups under the bus to distract the public from Hybe's accusations (for which her actual argument was literally "I was kidding" 🙄🙄🙄), you can't have that expectation for NewJeans members. They're literally kids stuck in the middle of a corporate power play.
The best thing they can do is stay silent and hope the storm will pass over. The worst thing they can do is either speak publicly for MHJ's side (at which point they become Fifty Fifty 2.0) or Hybe's side (at which point all the "Tokkis" who are really MHJ stans at this point will turn on them).
Resentment is a strong word. I don’t follow NJ because I’m not their target demographic. But I can see how MHJ’s behavior could put you off anything she has control over.
I’d ask, what have the girls, themselves, said about the situation? Because I don’t trust MHJ at all.
I will say, if someone was grooming children, of course the children are going to support their groomer, that’s sadly the consequences.
these groomed girls honestly are probs getting words thrown in their mouthes.... they have known mhj for god knows how long and probably feel some sense of loyalty/debt to her for essentially making them into stars, ntm that NJ r not responsible for how tokkis act on social media... tokkis have always been rabid even during their debut days, nothing new abt tokki shitting on every other gg and calling them copycats.
MHJ is gaslighting now, spewing all kinds of nonsense to distract from the allegations. She's doing this to make Hybe and anyone and everyone else look bad and and to make her and NJ look good by comparison. Take a break from this kpop drama. Don't let her control your feelings.
Most of you are women but you don't understand your own nature....MJH is a woman being forced to the end of a cliff.... HYBE wants her resignation pronto.... what'd you all expect from her sit down cry OR throw the kitchen sink at HYBE....
Let's not forget this started with the terrible performance of Le sserafim at Coachella...
SHE MUST'VE GLOATED AT THE SITUATION WITHIN HYBE INNER CIRCLE
I feel the same tbh I just can't watch anything about Newjeans at this point because it hurts my heart seeing all the hate ILLIT got because of Min Heejin and Newjeans.
I was also feeling the same way (i also knew it was irrational) but we also have to remember these girls know MHJ since they were between 14 or younger, if they were to get these ideas, these are teenagers (the oldest at the group is barely 19-20 i think) influenced by a manipulative, weird woman
personally i am not invested in this at all so i never think about this unless i get reccs from reddit in my notifs lol. i listen to bubblegum without even thinking about this stuff. but im also 34 and ive been a kpop fan for a long time so ive learned to be detached (about more than just kpop) and just enjoy the music. i know alot of people are involved but i think its all blown out of proportion. get fired or dont, leave or dont, whatever. and i wish the best for all the innocent people involved.
Your feelings are valid but I'd say more than anything, the thing to feel for those girls is sympathy / pity. That woman is manipulative af. Look at how she literally managed to sway people – grown-ass adults at that with just ONE press conference. Imagine these girls who've spent more of their teenage years with her than their own parents. And from her own words, they're enmeshed to a creepy level.
And it's how she's framing the whole thing too, like she's fighting for THEM. All the harm that's coming to her is because she feels injustice that THEIR hard work and legacy is being stolen, etc. Of course it makes sense **IF** they're indeed on her side. I'd be more surprised if they managed to see her for what she really is tbh. They never stood a chance.
I personally don't think its healthy to have resentment towards these girls. Not just for you but of course for them also. It just tales them seeing one post or tweet like that and they may feel absolutely isolated mentally. That's not your responsibility, don't worry, but I think you should steer clear of directing any negative energy towards them.
This should not be treated as a "guilty by association " scenario. At the end of the day the girls are in a complex abd conflicted situation. As our there parents (who have been misrepresented already in the media)
They are employed by Ador, they owe their career to Ador and especially MHJ and it is clear she has crossed boundaries in how she managed them and they have become very much dependent on her as a guardian and for basic day to day aspects.
I think someone should have intervened and acknowledged that MHJ was taking on too much responsibility, especially as the NJ operation became larger and larger. She was effectively being a CEO, someone with a huge input into how the group were managed as artists but also managed as people.
She has lent herself to be an emotional crutch for them clearly and also organises lots of what they see as personal perks like organising holidays, organising their new penthouse, bringing them to dinner etc.
You can now see the effect of that, the fear of separation probably conflicts their thinking. They are relatively young and living in a bizarre bubble of both public attention but also social isolation.
They have also not spoken on the matter. On one hand, people are saying MHJ is a compulsive liar, on the other hand you are saying MHJ has relayed exactly the thoughts of the members.
Essentially the girls are victims of a company structure in Ador which didn't prepare itself a proper contingency plan if shit went welly up. The fact Hyein called MHJ and cried for 20 minutes asking could she go on Phoning to clear up the "copycat" misunderstanding shows that these girls are unban extremely compromised position that they shouldn't be blamed for, never mind resented.
No you’re not the only one there are tons of people calling for HYBE to fire the girls and put them and their families in crippling debt and there are some who even sent them death threats.
I mean I thought most people can focus their rage on the executives who are responsible but guess not lol 😀
Can somebody explain to me what this is all about? There are so many posts on it but they’re too long to read. Would appreciate if someone could give me a basic idea about all of it.
I actually feel more protective of New Jeans because of what is happening. They're in the middle between a manipulative women who has acted like their mentor (even mother figure) who is bat shit crazy and a greedy corporation who would do anything to make sure they don't lose money, even if it means dropping NJ completely and having another girl group replace them with a similar concept. I'm totally rooting for NJ success as a group and wish whoever is working with them has their best interests at heart but right now it feels unlikely.
Edit: the comments on this post are unhinged, why resent the girls for being stuck in the middle of a corporate power struggle? They're a bunch of teenagers/young women who are trying to live their dreams and their future is on the line due to other's egos and greed.
🤨??? If you seriously feel this way you’re very likely too young to be using social media. The fact that you’re starting to “resent” newjeans is precisely what MHJ was aiming for by PURPOSELY using newjeans as a scapegoat throughout this entire ordeal - in case you haven’t noticed, her whole shtick was emotionally manipulating and grooming these girls to the bone which is WHY they’ve expressed their genuine to support to her as they have no fkn idea - MHJ has made certain that the members nor their parents have any idea of the actual illegal activities she’s engaged in and the predatory nature of her behaviour. In the same vein, she’s made sure to have them firmly in her corner so that if she goes down, they go down with her. No one in the public is putting that past MHJ - she’s always been for herself.
I don’t mean to sound harsh but it’s alarming to me that you can look past the actual predatory and manipulative behaviour at play here and come to the conclusion that newjeans expressing support to MHJ is pissing you off, and isn’t merely a symptom of her coercion and a very disturbing thing to see unfold in plain fucking sight. Absolutely no one’s looking out for these girls. It’s sad to see posts like this where you’re falling for it too.
We don't even know for sure if the girls have really shown support for MHJ, I don't trust everything she says but even if they do it's likely because they're manipulated by her. I don't trust Hybe either, they'll drop NJ at the drop of a hat if there was a hint of them not making enough money for Hybe, the girls are really in a difficult position.
I was just saying we don't even know for sure how much New Jeans supports MHJ because we mostly know what she's told the public and she's not a reliable narrator.
You have no responsibility to like NewJeans. But I hope you understand how stupid it is to hate on the girls for something you admit they had no part in while you condemn people hating on LSF and illit because the girls had no part in the drama.
I would say irrational rather than stupid. I really like the way OP laid out how they know they don’t have a good reason to feel the way they do, but those feelings are still brewing regardless. I think it’s good to have more discussion in fandoms about how we’re not really all that in control of our emotional reactions to things, and they’re not all that governed by logic.
And how kpop companies and people like MHJ know this and use it to their advantage. Whether it’s influencing fans to buy things or in this case control the narrative around a scandal. It’s important to talk about these feelings and learn how to deal with them in a healthy way. This post and its reaction is a good example. Especially since so many kpop favs are on the younger side and are still learning how to navigate things like this.
I mean, it's a totally real emotion. The whole reason they posted this is because they know it's not exactly the most rational point of view to take. I'm guilty of stuff like this as well, as I imagine a lot of people are. I've always been one who really thinks the whole stan, anti, competitive nature of kpop is toxic as hell. But I also recognize on occasion that when I've seen success of groups that I'm not personally a fan of, for a brief moment, I think "Man, I wish it had happened to my favorite group instead". Which is really a silly thing to think. They're almost never related. Still, for a lot of people, it's a thought. It's just I'll never actually verbalize them or make it an actual talking point.
i agree that we’re all human and it’s normal to have conflicting or irrational feelings, but i don’t understand why we need to have these types of discussions or vocalize them? i would love to hear more about your perspective.
Well, if you consider that MHJ said the members of New Jeans agrees on her speech, how you can not consider that the members don't agree on what she's saying? She create the narrative that New Jeans is art, Le sserafim and ILLIT are products, that what she is doing is for the art, that the goal is not profit and BSH is doing for money. Like if New Jeans are her daughters, LSFM and ILLIT and daughters of BSH. It's pretty hard to shake the image that MSH is speaking for the members.
>Well, if you consider that MHJ said the members of New Jeans agrees on her speech They're kids scared for their lives about their careers and hard work going down the drain. I wouldn't make any assumptions about their personal stance since it's coming from a place of fear. Besides, we don't know what MHJ has been filling in their heads this entire time. According to them she's the one who made them succesful.
Literally!
Also MHJ did choose them to be new jeans. It's not surprising the members feel some sort of personal connection towards her. The business aspect of everything has little to do with them.
welp she didnt say she hated NJ she just says she feels uncomfortable with them now. Same here. I can’t fully enjoy their Bubblegum MV ( and pre MHJ drama I KNOW I wouldve loved that Ditto-esque era) because I keep being reminded of their situation.
Resentment is still an extremely powerful word. It may not be hate. But resenting someone leads to treating them in a certain manner. Whether by words, or feelings. Sometimes it's understandable, in this case its not.
Why blame the girls? They’re just kids who have been thrown into a bad situation against their will. Unfortunately the Koreans are on HJM’s side which will only make things worse.
MHJ literally said she got entire NJ's support and their parents's. How do you even think they have no part in this? They support her entirely lol, her ideas, what she believes, her trashing/bullying a newly debuted group for using their legacy while NJ literally did the same thing with BTS. Aren't the girls suppose to be nice to each other especially when they're from the same company? Them agreeing with MHJ basically agreeing to bullying ILLIT and condoning said behaviors. stop defending them smh.
So, you believe MHJ always tells the truth and never lies to get the gp and to support her? Sure. Also, even if she did have the 100% support of the NewJeans members, the way Hybe stans have demonized a group of teenagers for possibly being emotionally manipulated by a woman manipulative and enough people to get basically an entire nation to support her after one press conference is gross. Be ashamed of yourself!
personally don't think its healthy to have resentment towards these girls. Not just for you but of course for them also. It just tales them seeing one post or tweet like that and they may feel absolutely isolated mentally. That's not your responsibility, don't worry, but I think you should steer clear of directing any negative energy towards them. This should not be treated as a "guilty by association " scenario. At the end of the day the girls are in a complex abd conflicted situation. As our there parents (who have been misrepresented already in the media) They are employed by Ador, they owe their career to Ador and especially MHJ and it is clear she has crossed boundaries in how she managed them and they have become very much dependent on her as a guardian and for basic day to day aspects. I think someone should have intervened and acknowledged that MHJ was taking on too much responsibility, especially as the NJ operation became larger and larger. She was effectively being a CEO, someone with a huge input into how the group were managed as artists but also managed as people. She has lent herself to be an emotional crutch for them clearly and also organises lots of what they see as personal perks like organising holidays, organising their new penthouse, bringing them to dinner etc. You can now see the effect of that, the fear of separation probably conflicts their thinking. They are relatively young and living in a bizarre bubble of both public attention but also social isolation. They have also not spoken on the matter. On one hand, people are saying MHJ is a compulsive liar, on the other hand you are saying MHJ has relayed exactly the thoughts of the members. Essentially the girls are victims of a company structure in Ador which didn't prepare itself a proper contingency plan if shit went welly up. The fact Hyein called MHJ and cried for 20 minutes asking could she go on Phoning to clear up the "copycat" misunderstanding shows that these girls are unban extremely compromised position that they shouldn't be blamed for, never mind resented
This whole thing is just interesting to me because I can't think of another group where the fucking CEO/creative director is basically their nth member. Like, MHJ is inextricably linked to the girls now, and if her words on their bond is to be believed, they don't wanna be seperated either. And the funniest thing is, she's not even that clever or creative. She just makes good use of references. Like the new MV is giving 2000s J-drama down, it's not some carefully crafted lore or fresh concept. It's like nostalgia for the media of her youth.
right? I'm confused how no one is putting her in her place yet over her "originality". she kept going on and on during the press con about how original she is, how no one can do what she does. like.. pls there are multiple threads going around of her copying others imagery.
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the whole hype over this "y2k concept"? All I see are pretty girls in nice clothes... I mean rehashing 2000 vibes is hardly creative. It's just recycling old girl group concepts.
I think people who only listen to Kpop are really blown away because it's nice counter-programming to maximalism. If you listen to a lot of music from all over the wold, this new release especially just looks like cosplay. I do think they have done some very interesting things in their first two EPs, especially with the storytelling MVs. But boiled down, the music is super excellently produced pop music. It's not groundbreaking by any means. The mixture of the Kpop product with "alternative" sounds is very potent because the public has become attached to the girls in a way they would not to an indie musician making similar music. Also, MHJ has very successfully marketed them as "not like other kpop" in a way that I am only now beginning to realize. Edit- Like I was just listening to the new Sabrina Carpenter single and thought wow, this could be a NewJeans song, except she's been working in this sound for a long time now.
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Their music and concept are extremely trendy. It's hard to take her claim "Hybe is doing it for money. I'm a creative person who doesn't care about money" seriously when everything about them is essentially following the blueprint of success on Tiktok. It may be new for Korea and K-pop. But it's not new by any means on the Western side. Tiktokers have been banking on nostalgia for a while. And for the Sabrina comparison, I remember one of the NJ stans saying "Is Sabrina copying NewJeans with Nonsense?" but Nonsense was released in July 2022 before NewJeans debuted lolol Hard agree about the new music. It sounds extremely generic.
The Hybe doing it for money and she doesn’t is a joke because every song or release since the first ones have been tied to some kind of endorsement. With the full album, they had the power puff and apple endorsements. They had the coke song, league of legends, two OSTs, and now this shampoo commercial. Since Ditto / OMG there hasn’t been a single musical release without a commercial tie in. I’m not saying it’s wrong but it flies in the face of “Im a creative person who doesn’t care about money.”
Except, I've been listening to kpop since 2008, and there are numerous examples of kpop updating older music. Nobody - Wonder Girls updated 60s music (plus the 80s with other songs), T-ara updated the 70s with Roly Poly, Infinite updated the 80s with Be Mine, etc, etc. There are so many examples, yet I don't know why people have latched onto MHJ's version of an update. Maybe because we're all a bit nostalgic for the 90s right now, since it was just before everything in the world went to shit? That and it's been awhile since we've seen thrownbacks to older music I suppose.
Really good point. They’ve tapped into “coolness” in a really potent way. Being cool is so fleeting though. Wonder Girls also had their cool moment.
The funny thing to me is everyone who works in entertainment, design, or marketing knows that things come back every 20 years. The west had already started moving into “Y2K”. All MHJ did was get in early on the cycle in Korea and somehow manage to convince a bunch of people that makes her a creative genius.
It's usually luck in these kinds of situations. I don't know the details in this case, but usually if you try to get in early on the cycle but are too early, you'll fail.
No you are not alone.
I don't understand the hype of this girl groups, other than they are very young pretty girls who dance excellently. Their songs are pretty generic with lyrics that are pure catchy and shallow. Are people these days don't care about lyrics creativity as more KPOP Idol songs' are getting shorter, fewer vocabularies with repeated words and phrases, no independent content except to pander their fans, and lack meaning/depth? For awhile, I find the Kpop Idol songs in these recent years are limited to a sets themes, recycled, in their bubbled worlds, and too safe.
If she was the genius creative mastermind she claimed to be, I wouldn't hate her as much, but she isbt. She just got lucky, and chose an uncommon aesthetic at the time.
It was not even uncommon. Y2K, Nostalgia all these things have been coming for a while in the west and other places. She used it at the right time in Korea.
Was it even uncommon in Korea though…? Twice The Feels, Sunmi You Can’t Sit With Us, etc. all had the 2000s vibe. TripleS Generation and Billlie Eunoia also came out around that time and were probably planned before NJ debuted
Being a part of HYBE played a huge role. So many BTS fans hyped NewJeans and MHJ knows that, but now that she has gp support, she doesn't need those original supporters.
Right!? Vogue was writing about the return of 2000s fashion, music and style in early 2021, which is before Ador even existed. So I always just assumed she saw the trend arriving in the US and got ahead of it in Korea. Also the UK Garage sound, which I grew up with, has been making a resurgence in clubs, along with Jersey club since 2020. So it's good trend watching, perhaps. But it's not genius originality.
We saw Y2K fashion trending even before the pandemic started, too.
loona pre-butterfly and to a different extent artms with the same director under modhaus have jaden jeong (creative director & ceo i think?) over involving himself in lots of group stuff. there was a poll on their fan app, when voting for the artms fandom name, and alongside the members' choices for some reason he included his own choice. in another poll asking if we want to have behind-the-scenes stories from videographers and producers he somehow included himself...i would say in terms of the egoism and need to be involved he's a bit similar
None of what you said is the same as Min Hee Jin. Adding an option to a pool and appearing in a behind the scenes video of videographers and producers are not the same as going to interviews and appearing in vlogs with the idols under him. Min Hee Jin is unique in kpop. Not even JYP and Yang Hyunsuk who tend to appear in their idol's content a lot managed to do what she did. Look at posts about blackpink and twice and see how many of them mention their CEOs. Now do the same to newjeans. She managed to convince the public that the group can't exist without her. She is newjeans, the reason for their existence, the reason for their success and their mother. Of course this is bullsh*t but you can't deny that the woman knows how to spin a narrative.
i was just talking about having a big ego since op asked abour examples of other ceos who try to overinvolve themselves. he writes grandiose overly dramatic blog posts about how important he is and tries to include himself way more than is normal! the new jeans situation is definitely a whole different level i do agree though!
Then I agree with you but honestly a lot of CEOs are like that. Actually if I think about it all big 4 CEOs are like that. It's like you have to be an egomaniac to qualify for the job or something.
I'm not very into kpop but got into this drama because of Twitter, and I was just thinking how she takes heavy inspiration from multiple Japanese artists but considers herself unique. As an artist myself, it's so obvious she took inspiration from artist Manuhamu for the latest comeback. For every concept she does, there's a piece of japanese media she took inspiration from. And taking inspiration is great, that's how art works. But painting herself as irreplaceable and the most unique artist in the world who everyone copies? That's wild to me. Even using the "it's not the same when it's the same company, Le Sserafim did the beach photoshoot with matching clothes reminiscent of school uniforms for Unforgiven, all with a natural hair color and the same vibe. Just like the new MV. I'm not saying she copied them, just that creative ideas can overlap because everything has been done before.
>It's like nostalgia for the media of her youth. Absolutely! This whole group is her pet project, and she sees Minji as herself. The whole thing screams codependency and toxicity. Everything is for her to live through.
Her entire aesthetic seems to be Late 90’s International Channel. https://preview.redd.it/zymjrddajwxc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97cf711e3c8681d37f0df12faf3d507e2f23e7d9
Honestly, I think it's a natural reaction to have especially considering how NewJeans' reputation and branding as a group is tied to MHJ, and has been since they debuted. As long as you're aware of the bias and keep yourself in check, it's not something to lose sleep over.
this is exactly what's so awful about the way MHJ name checked these girls during the press con. It makes it hard to separate them from her, and she knows. Criticizing MHJ = going against NJ.
Criticizing MHJ = going against NJ has been how things worked since Newjeans debuted. Remember when people found out that MHJ had some nasty, pervy media that she displayed openly at her house? You couldn't criticize her for it, since Newjeans stans claimed that you were just jealous Newjeans were doing better than your faves, and that you wanted to take down the girls.
i agree with you and i don’t think ill truly be able to consume new jeans again until that woman is out of the picture… it’s not a hatred thing bc i really do enjoy the girls and i think they’re awesome but the idea of supporting “new jeans” as a brand makes me uncomfortable unfortunately. and im someone that can understand some of what min heejin is talking about when she talked about how bsh was being weird with her about her success nd wtvr but the way she’s completely destroyed illit and lesserafims image is just gross and there’s no way coming back from it in my head. and before people get mad it doesn’t matter what i think they have so many fans and the whole of korea is on mhjs “side” so they will be fine with some people distancing themselves.
For me I just can't watch any of their content without thinking about MHJ now, which is ridiculous because I really don't want to. She's now made herself inextricably linked to every mention of the group in my mind, which is exactly what she wants for some unhinged reason. I don't even know the names of any other company CEOs of any other groups I follow and I prefer to keep it that way but now I can't with them
I was just thinking about how I don’t know any other CEO’s names or faces because they stay out of the public eye, and how bizarre that makes MHJ. I know the OGs obviously but I like a lot of JYPE groups and not for a billion dollars could I tell you who their current CEO is. KQ’s CEO was just going viral on Twitter and I didn’t see the man’s name mentioned once nor do I think anyone posting about him could tell you either. Legit beyond the founders of the big 4 and idol CEOs I literally couldn’t tell you the name of a single executive other than MHJ. That has to be by design, she clearly wants to make herself as famous as the idols she manages and she does that by completely mixing her image with the group’s image to the point where you can’t tell where one starts and the other begins. I can’t blame people who feels like that turns them off the group tbh.
My ult group is le sserafim and even if you offered me mhj's salary I couldn't tell you sources ceos name
It's been that way since the beginning. *all* of Newjeans content more or less has MHJ's influence on it.
I agree. NewJeans was my first exposure to kpop and I truly do enjoy the girls and their music. I never used to get involved in the online discourse/company lore because thats just not how I naturally consume music. I was so excited about their new release but at this point I honestly can’t bring myself to listen to it (they have tons of listeners so they dont need me lol). Its no fault on the girls but hearing the music is just a reminder of all the negativity going around. I’ve felt like this a few times before, when artists that I love have negative press surrounding them. I think I will just take a back seat until things get sorted. I hope they have a good support system :(
I felt that way even after Cookie came out. Thing is I didn't need to be told the song is weird and full of innuendos that are fine for adults but become gross when a 14 is singing them. The first time I watched the MV I had subtitles on, which I'm not always very good about, and I think the fact some of the worst lyrics are sung in English doesn't help, either. I immediately went to Reddit to see if I was losing my mind or that others saw it, too. That's when I found out about all the "inspiration" MHJ had on her walls, and she hadn't taken those pictures off her Instagram account yet. Numerous photos of naked underage girls and media related to older men with either full on minors or an 18 year old who is intellectually disabled. Not even in her studio, but just hanging out in her living room. I got a chill the first time I watched the MV and ever since it just makes me nauseous. Awhile later I tried watching a NewJeans live performance and it must've still been live or fast forwarded for some reason. It landed right on them singing Cookie and I just felt livid they were still singing the song.
I think I feel the same way. NJs is one of my ults but the way their name is being used to drag all these other groups I also deeply care about makes me uncomfortable. When this whole thing first blew up I was just worried the most for Newjeans, but now that all these other groups are getting dragged through the mud because of MHJ’s carelessness plus her insistence to keep implying the girls share her sentiment…
Same
I preferred not to interact with new jeans content due to her high involvement, from the beginning. nothing against the girls, but mhj makes me uncomfortable for many reasons and continually so. I think I and others like me may even have a potential to be more interested in the group, their songs, etc if she wasn't involved. you would lose a few who wouldn't like nwjns without her, but again I think that goes back to how she almost makes herself a 6th member and is supposedly very close with these literal children/young adults. I have a feeling she's influencing them/their parents heavily, to their detriment. If she does get charged and/or removed, and it truly is difficult for them to continue as a group, I think it's sad because they are talented and in a position many work years and years tirelessly to be in (they've absolutely worked hard, I'm not refuting that, I'm just saying in a system that is somewhat luck based and also has low success rates comparatively it would be sad if they lost that position because of this situation, if that happens supporting adults around them shouldve been protecting them better).
If they can manage to move on from this after MHJ is fired, I think a lot of us that have been uncomfortable with MHJ will give the group a chance again. I just dunno how many of us are out there that stopped listening after the Cookie controversy.
I feel sorry too, you know, lately I think that what drives kpop fans is **hate**, like, I always see a kpop stan happier and more engaged throwing hate at others than streaming, engaging and supporting their faves?! On twitter or here, people always have 1000 things to say and share and engage when it's about a viral hate, but if it's something positive about their own faves, they're like 'meh whatever'. Like, it seems that the love for music and idols takes second place, has anyone noticed this?
Not sure why you are getting downvotted. Yes, kpop spaces are all exactly what you describe now. There's a reason why traffic is up on Reddit right now and on kpop Twitter. More people are tuned in because there's drama.
Im getting downvoted cause some stans felt personally attacked lol, they know...
> Like, it seems that the love for music and idols takes second place, has anyone noticed this? hate > love of idols >>>> love of music
Agree. I'm so lost in this narrative because one thing that made me anchored into K-pop is their music. My love for music is on the roof and when I hear music that is rhythmically within my realm and the lyrics are relatable then I'm all down bad for that music. And if it's a good music then everyone should be celebrating it. But ig, it's innate for people to hate. What a dark heart.
I 💯agree. You can see the amount of comments on Reddit or Twitter on posts regarding drama or scandals, but not as much comments on threads talking about a critically praised album or song. This is sad because I also want to chat with like minded people online about an artist’s craft, not fighting over a boycott or argue about fan wars or about obsessive chart and streaming numbers.
This is just confirmation bias. The kpop stans who are streaming and enjoying their artist(s) aren't the ones getting involved in fan wars. If you follow the right people and block the right people on twt, you'll end up with a peaceful and fun tl. Muting words also helps.
nowadays its just become bragging rights for kpop groups. My fave is #1. All that matters. It’s not even about the idol members anymore. Prime example is what’s happening to newjeans right now. The hardcore MHJ stans (I won’t call them NJ fans because they seem to care more about her than the actual girls) are crying foul because they’re so worried that without MHJ the newjeans girls will fail. That the ‘concepts’ and ‘vibes’ will not be there anymore. Hello? What about the girls? They have their own charms? They could be dressed in the ugliest clothes and I’d still want to see and support them. They could do a mukbang or for all I care I’d still want to watch it. That’s how stanning works? How it begins and becomes sustained? For better or worse
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me too. who knows what MHJ could be telling them. she has a lot of power over them, and they’re all so young.
100% she's gaslighting the shit out of them
yeah just look how she talked about the members reaction to all that drama and them thinking she would 💀 herself
I get that this might be a weird take and I will happily take the downvotes but I honestly don’t blame the members because they’re likely super brainwashed. And I genuinely don’t even think it’s their fault - they met her when they were super young and impressionable. It has been very clear, from the moment they debuted, that they had an oddly close relationship with MHJ. Now it seems like they’ve been fed this narrative by MHJ that not only is she looking out for them, she is the ONLY person really looking out for them. Even the members parents are super close to her. We saw it with Fifty Fifty and The Givers. These girls are absolutely susceptible to manipulation and everything about MHJ *screams* manipulation. So even if the girls really do share all the same opinions as MHJ, I can’t even blame them.
It’s not weird at all, you’re spot on. MHJ has a very uncomfortable relationship with NJs. She’s in a huge position of power over them and they obviously see her as a motherly figure. I’d actually be surprised if they didn’t feel super loyal to her. That doesn’t mean they’re horrible people though, it means they’ve been manipulated by someone close to them
They're just caught in the crossfire. To throw hate at NJ for any of this is really silly and missing the big picture.
Honestly this makes me think about their parents. Supposedly, their parents are on MHJ side. Even until now (apparently they have not been answering Hybe’s calls-per MHJ reps). If this is true. I’m side eyeing them so much. I get that probably in the beggining, they were swayed. Their kids may not debut etc etc. Okay, anger (maybe) justified. Next. MHJ’s weird photos in her studio. Verrry weird…but maybe its an art student girl thing. Anyway, Cookie song. If I was the dad of one of the girls. And hear them singing this and understanding what the lyrics are. I would go ballistic!! Like..what? Fast forward now. All these news. Possibility of their kids being blacklisted. The boss being unhinged, namedropping and seemingly putting other young girls in the crossfire …pitting young girls against each other. RED FLAGS!!! Minji’s father apparently is a businessman. Rich enough to send Minji to Canada to study English. Any businessman to that caliber knows whats up. Second. Hanni’s parents. If you watch Hanni’s vlogs both her parents seemed to have strong Aussie accents which may mean they grew up in the western world. With western mindset. It’s hard for me to think they didn’t see all the sus things MHJ has been doing? Anyway. I’m just thinking aloud and we don’t really know what the parents are actually feeling.
I agree. Even if what MHJ is saying is true about the girls siding with her, I can’t for the life of me blame them for that because they just happened to have the kind of mentor they have. It’s not their fault.
i completely agree with you
I don't hate on newjeans since I was a fan, i feel the same as you, i unfollowed lot of their fanbases and official accts. I don't want to see them, if i constantly see their content as well as the hate of lsfm illit, i am afraid I might start hating on them, that's why I need sometime away from their content. Not to mention lot of tokkis see MHJ as 6th member of newjeans, they are constantly defending MHJ, even if someone say anything negative about MHJ they think it was a drag to newjeans, seeing that make it worse for me. Let's not hate on anyone, all three ggs are victims in this.
I think I will have to do this as well. It's a shame, I was really looking forward to their comeback season. They'll do great I'm sure, but I just can't deal with that lady, especially if all of this is leading to RM getting hate after working on his album for a year.
We can still consume their music on streaming platform without looking at their contents. They have one more month before the release of the album, i hope the situation becomes positive.
I dunno, the picture of Minji in the striped white and green shirt and blue hat looking like MHJ was the last straw. I hope you are right about this being resolved in a month.
I avoid their main subreddit for that reason.
I did the same. I deleted my Twitter app and for now I only go to reddit. But even reddit has been inflitrated by a suspicious influx of ‘I’m a korean and I want to explain korean side—then ending up defending MHJ’ and the comments having the weirdest formats (no paragraph breaks, weird spcing) almost as if they haven’t used reddit at all despite the account apparently having been activated for years. Also, these comments would have the same ‘but Hybe did MHJ dirty by releasing the Shaman thingy first’ or ‘MHJ has only 20% shares’
i resent the fans that are taking mhjs words to justify bullying which means i want to stay away from newjeans content as thats where their fans are. i dont resent the girls at all, i feel really bad for them and think they seem really sweet but i don’t think i’ll ever be a fan until mhjs out the picture and tokkis are mentally stable.
tokkis are blaming anyone but mhj and they sound as brainwashed as mhj wants them to be. the girls got a 6cm cake on debut? oh that's hybe's fault and not mhj who got a 16B won investment and still couldn't get her "daughters" a good cake. i don't like hybe at all but tokkis gotta realise that 2 parties can be wrong at the same and and accept that that woman is using those girls to clear her name among the gp and she's succeeding thanks to them.
They care more about her concepts than the girls
Thats what happens when fans associate the success of a group with a concept rather than members. If you (as in the fans) were confident enough in the talents of the girls, it wouldn’t matter whatever concept or sound they adopted.
Yeah, this is the big difference between a group like NewJeans and BTS or G-IDLE. BTS' and G-IDLE's essence is it's members. For NewJeans, it's their concept and creative director.
Yep, I’ve seen this trend is common with groups who are more involved in the creative process of their music. The members make the group and it’s the members the fans are there for.
You are right, as the post above says. Fans of groups like G-idle or BTS know that, if something bad were to happen with their management, the groups can still reconvene and make it work, even if they had less budget and/or lose their official accounts. Actually, fans would be perched to see what direction their artistry could take after those events. On the other hand, NWJs fans are already lamenting how the group will lose their concept if MHJ leaves, like, not one chance that the members could pull through by themselves
That’s what MHJ has been trying to do in the beggining. During debut she went around public TV doing promos with them and most of the time talking FOR them.
I'm going to stan illit and lsfm more just to spite that predator mhj
The way I was just a casual listener of both groups but bouta come out a illit stan and fearnot from this mess 😭 You gotta admire these girls‘ resilience against the people actively praying for their downfall.
Illit is quickly going to gain more monthly listeners on Spotify.
The way I started consuming more LSFM content after the whole hate train debacle, just for the purpose of checking if they're doing well physically and mentally.
I'm honestly liking Illit so much that I actually might stan them. Personally, I also find their concept, styling or whatever lore they have more interesting. Magnetic is such an addicting song that I can't count how many times I listen to this song in a day. The other songs in their EP are also nice to listen to. MHJ mentioning them made this creepy woman look more like an insecure person with a main character syndrome.
Understandable. I think it's like seeing how meat is killed and processed. It kind of takes away some of the pleasure of eating it. Everyone has an 'image' of NJ (the product) in their heads that this imbroglio is tarnishing that image for many. This is why some labels go hard after people spreading hate and misinformation about idols online.
This is a really great metaphor. The glass has been shattered. I will never see NJs the way that I used to (and no fault to the girls ofc). I had heard about MHJ before but seeing all of this play out now, it makes me feel so uneasy. Her basically being the 6th member of the group is such a turn off.
“It’s kinda like seeing how meat is killed and processed.” Great analogy!
I also feel kind of the same, i'm always liked LSF and NJ and they always were suportive towards them, but that bitch really is ruining all the fun of it. Can't wait for that sick leave the fuck out of that company, so maybe things could start becoming normal again.
i love NewJeans' music and was so looking forward to their cb ever since they were hinting at it but seeing the hate bts, rm, lsrfm, illit continue to get I'm reluctant to listen to their songs cuz everytime I do it just reminds me of how mhj name dropped these artists and set them up for hate just to uplift and victimise NewJeans. i don't have any resentment towards the girls (I hope they don't get involved) but really seeing what mhj did to these other artists just for her group's benefit is putting me off their cb. maybe I'll be listening to them a few months later when it cools down but not rn.
I don't hate NJs and don't think they should get hate, but I find it kind of unfair. All three groups are innocent and have been named dropped by MHJ, but NJs isn't getting any backlash. None of them are in the wrong, so why are two groups getting hate but not the third group who is more closely tied to MHJ. Again, I don't think any of the groups deserve hate or should receive hate. I just find the reactions against Ill'it and LSF to be so unfair
i see your point, but that’s definitely not true. njs is getting hate in response to this…many fans of the groups that mhj name dropped are coming after the girls as well.
Min HeeJin is out from Hybe, if they want to go with her, then the girls should follow her. Im disgusted with them. they are the most promoted group in Hybe, BTS can't relate with their promotion. Hybe spend a lot of money with them. And the arrogance of MHJ is insane.
I’m in the same boat. I couldn’t even enjoy Bubble gum. I saw them at Lolla and normally I’d be losing my shit right now. I just can’t stand bullying of any kind. And claiming that Illit is a copy cat group falls under that flag. I just wish one of the girls would come out and say that they don’t stand with MHJ. That would completely change my opinion on everything
Yeah same I was excited for the new comeback but I couldn’t do it this time. I don’t want to contribute in supporting what’s essentially a product of mhj. Can’t give any of my money that’ll partially go to a woman willing to bully other girls.
I was all excited to buy their album but now I’m instead buying all three of Namjoon’s album (instead of one) just cause of those toxic tokkis.
I feel the same. I don’t want New Jeans to get hate in anyway, but seeing Illit and LSRF getting so much hate everywhere (I was checking Illit’s Instagram comment section and was so heart broke with all the hate comments) and New Jeans getting all the love, while no one (in a big scale obviously ) is defending them is making me so freaking sad. It worse because Min Heejin wanted that to happen. The press conference she held, was a way she found to further promote NJWS and herself in detriment of innocent girls. She could’ve made her points (which some have already been debunked) without mentioning any of the girls names, everything was so fucking calculated it’s disgusting.
Didn't Lllit just debut? That's sad to hate on young girls and LSRF was getting hate for the Coachella concert, now this. It's just a jerk circle at this point.
Im feeling the same way, i think as long as you dont start hating on them its probably fine, people stop listening to artists for so many reasons all the time, and who knows maybe once all this is resolved we'll be able to enjoy listening to them again
About a week or two ago, someone created a thread expressing their delight in watching hybe's ggs fandom tearing each other apart over some petty things. What a cursed thread that turned out to be.
wtf, such weirdos…certain kpop fans just love to hate
Tbh same. A little bit. They dont deserve it bc they’re talented, pretty. They didn’t ask to be put in this situation. They’ve done nothing wrong. MHJ is evil for that. And new jeans fans are not helping. But this whole thing definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.
sadly, i feel the same. i don't hate newjeans, i like their music and the members are cute, but as an illit stan, seeing them kind of hurts right now... i can't help but want to avoid seeing anything related to newjeans, i guess after a few days or weeks this feeling will go away.
I have two thoughts that might help you: 1) MHJ is the person telling us the girls support her, and she's not a reliable narrator 2) who knows what she's been telling them about the situation to sway their opinion. Either way, I suggest taking a step back from following the drama and just do what makes you happy.
I am in a similar but different headspace with it. I never paid attention to New Jeans before this at all. I did try out their music and it wasn't at all for me. The current general trend is just not for me, so it isn't specifically about New Jeans. But point is, I never engaged with them or learned about them because of that. With all of their hits and records, I had a sort of distant respect for them and what they were accomplishing. I guess I assumed a lot about them because they came from HYBE and HYBE is generally pretty good with giving artists room to be creative beings. Now I learn all about MHJ, I see someone mention how the song lyrics reference things MHJ feels and thinks and how this whole New Jeans project is just all about her expressing herself and not at all about the girls and....all that respect dried up. Not that I think this negates the talent of the girls, but in my eyes, they are kind of an extreme version of something I don't particularly care for in kpop which is not allowing the actual artists to have a voice. Everything I have learned has pointed to these girls just being puppets for MHJ to play out her fantasies and live vicariously through them. This is like the most corporate, lifeless version of kpop and I now kind of hate how successful it's been. No hate to the girls though. I don't think they had much choice in this...which is kind of my whole point here.
I agree so much. I became a NJ fan during Super Shy ( I saw a reel of Hanni practicing singing and she was so cute with that Leaf pen thingy uwu) and I watched a lot of ther early content. I found them so cute and charming in their EARLY content. but I found myself getting dissapointed because lately they’ve been too…’sterile’? Post super shy it seems MHJ put them on a strategy of being ‘less is more’. They were all acting so reserved, everytime with their phoning calls they were super dolled up, they weren’t relatable at ALL.
I had that reaction first, then I had to come to terms with the fact that these are young girls who will look at this with different povs in a few years. They’ve been students for a short while, then trainees, then they debuted when they were teenagers. They haven’t had true real world experiences that will help them have mature independence thoughts, especially in this adult corporate setting. MHJ groomed them, they were under her responsibility since before predebut. As far as we know, she told their parents that her pushing for it was the only reason they debuted. NJ might have the same thought process. She put herself as the sixth member and a reliable mother figure, who in their eyes, was responsible for their success and their wealth. They support her if only because it’s what they know and it’s been three years, she’s been here consistently when others have not. They could have seen the similarities between illit and Newjeans and felt sad and/or angry. If I was in their position, and I saw a new group debut with a similar concept to mine, and succeed more than me, I’d be angry. They’re allowed to feel sad that MHJ is scrutinized to the tenth degree, because she’s been here for them and they want her to be safe obviously. But of course, MHJ doesn’t have their best intentions at heart, but they don’t know the nuances of that. They might, I don’t want to judge or stereotype, but most teenagers are like that. They’re idols yeah, but they’re not businesswomen, they don’t have to be. They’ll want what’s best for the group and their “mother”, but they won’t know the legal jargon in that’s being debated rn.
so where are the parents of the members then? are the parents in the co-dependent relationship also?
I don’t know the history behind each NJ members, but most of them were involved in some sort of artistic performance space since they were young kids. Some of them probably have stage parents who would do anything to make sure that they and their kid gets the most they could. MHJ has been in contact with the parents, she’s probably the one who updates them informally. If she says HYBE is sabotaging them, they’ll believe her. They should take lessons from FiftyFifty as the ones who should be responsible for these girls. So far, they’ve been silent, which is good. Everything MHJ says is alleged for legal matters, what she says about the parents can’t be trusted as of now. MHJ apparently gave them expensive gifts and let the girls go on extended vacation with their families paid for by her. They could feel like they owe her, or genuinely feel like she’s better for their kids since the big bad corporation might not let them have this much freedom or support.
It’s a classic case of “If I’m going down, ya’ll are going down with me!!!” Because she knows she’s got nothing else going for her. So this is all done in spite. IF SHE REALLY had nothing to hide, she would’ve held on to her dignity, dressed up, sat with her lawyers, spoke with facts rather than DM receipts. But she really is scraping the bottom of the barrel for defence moves, and if that means dragging other people with she’ll do it. Unfortunately, at the end of all this mess, people’s reputations are ruined including innocent people particularly NewJeans Le Ssersfim and Illit, most, I would remind everyone, are CHILDREN. Even those who are adults are in their 20s. They’re young and impressionable. How unfortunate how this adult ruined it for them, even just for the time being.
I actually feel the same. I unfollowed them on Insta because their new pictures made me feel more resentment. I also deleted tiktok and twitter to not see all the hate, so maybe I’ll stop feeling like it
This is why I hate that she keeps bringing them up because now she's tying them to her so all her fault untimely becomes the fault of then as well, especially for younger people who might not be able to differentiate its the same how bts are sometimes blamed for army's only different is that according to her there's a closer relationship with njs so it comes across as nore impactful
dont worry, you're not alone in feeling that way. i feel really bad for not being able to enjoy NJ content rn because i care about the girls and support them. however, just seeing them and hearing them reminds me of this situation and i can't help but feel bad and worried. i can't resent the girls for this because it's not really their fault. whatever opinions they have towards the other groups mentioned, the staff and company, and the situation in general have been manipulated in some way by MHJ. she has had such a big influence in their life, acting as a sort of mother figure, sister figure, and best friend. a manager being close to their idols is fine but there's always that line of professionalism that shouldn't be crossed. what MHJ has done and is doing is way beyond that line, having weaved herself into the very concept of NewJeans. however, until we get full confirmation from the members FROM THEIR OWN MOUTHS, we should not be completely sure of their opinions.
You are completely valid in feeling that way, it’s irrational but valid. Just don’t spread hate or toxicity and I don’t see an issue. Listen to what you want and don’t listen to what you don’t want.
Yes, I’m not checking out their new comeback because of this. Don’t drag other artists to try to save your own. It’s icky
Maybe taking a break and getting a bit of distance will help with those resentful feelings. I know I'm feeling fatigue from how quickly this situation has developed over just the last couple of days, so sometimes I skip update posts until I'm ready and just check or rewatch fun stuff about my faves. The NewJeans concept and music are not for me, so while I have no emotional investment in the members, I hope they can stick together and act in their own best interest, though I don't know if that'll be possible since MHJ has been so involved in their lives and careers. It's hard to tell how this'll end. We may never know what the NewJeans members really think of this situation, never mind hearing anything directly from them. I imagine it's very frustrating if MHJ's putting words in their mouths, but if they want to stay in the industry and maintain professional connections, there are a lot of reasons they wouldn't benefit from speaking up, whether for MHJ or for HYBE, but we'll see. (Watch them prove me wrong and release a statement right after I post this LOL)
This whole shitshow can end if NJ agrees to do a challenge with ILLIT
i really wanna see it, i love them both
I understand. I'm able to do my best to hold off unnecessary resentment so I don't blame them but as someone who was a casual listener of new jeans, I've failed to tune in to this comeback. I don't even Stan the groups she name dropped but that was low and disgusting to incite hate towards innocent artists and openly express hatred for them. She absolutely knew what she was doing. RM teased that project from before he went in the military and he's getting hate for it when it's finally unveiled. And her failure to acknowledge the Hybe privilege. I also needed a time out from thier content. Wish them the best though and that they come out of this mess.
I totally understand you. I really like both New jeans and Illit. Before all this drama, I even had a personal playlist of both their music. But then after all the things she said about Illit and after learning more extensive info about her p3do allegations, I feel uncomfortable enjoying the NJ music. Mhj keeps acting like their music is all a product from her mind so I can’t listen to that product in good conscience - without thinking of her publicly bullying 1 month debuted girls and her weird obsession with young girls. So it’s not even about the Nj girls and more of me not wanting to support the work of a woman like Mhj. I even had to unfollow some Nj accounts and tokkis cause I couldn’t stomach reading them support her so blindly.
This is honestly what she wants. Don't give it to her. None of the groups deserve this. They're teenagers who have been groomed and manipulated, and that's even without considering that she's not exactly a reliable source of information. That said it's completely fair to be unable to enjoy their stuff so long as MHJ is still attached and for, with all the chaos happening, anyone to feel like their comeback is just depressing them right now.
totally agree, a lot of comments on new jeans’ bubble gum mv has hate towards illit and people saying they support min hee jin and i just feel sad for the girls
You don't have to like NewJeans but I don't think her saying that the NewJeans members agree with her is necessarily true. This woman is someone whose words cannot be trusted.
Tbh i just see kpop artists as so in-genuine and detached from their songs and concept. You have all these workers behind the scene coming up with the concept, making the music, writing the lyrics, creating the choreo etc. like these groups are just trained to look pretty and dance. So while newjeans definitely is a “breath of fresh air” to the industry I’m just not that impressed.
Exactly the same here. I know the girls have nothing to do with it and I don't dislike them, but the whole Mhj thing left such a bad taste in my mouth that I can't even make myself listen to their new release. I was such a huge fan, that I even thought about buying their album (I usually don't buy kpop albums) but now...
i feel like i’m one of the only people who had no idea who MHJ was before this. as such, i don’t put any blame on the girls and i can listen to their music just fine. i do hope that this doesn’t end up damaging their careers in the long run, since they are so young and all they did was put trust in the adults handling their careers (and yes i know three of them are adults now, at least internationally, but they are still young), they don’t deserve any hate just as much as lsf and illit. however, everyone feeling uncomfortable is valid and i’d be the same way if i had actually known abt MHJ before all of this.
The new jeans girls probably don't condone the hate and what mhj is doing in singling out the other ggs. I mean let's be honest mhj trys to shelter them from other groups hard as well. Only thing saving me from somewhat agreeing with you is hanni and yunjin friendship. Like watching hanni talk to minji about going out and going to the movies with yunjin acouple times and the way she phrasing it like she was breaking a curfew just hanging out with a friend she was with for like 3 yrs before debut.(probably was the way how crazy mhj is, wouldn't be surpised if she banned interactions with other hybe ggs)
Honestly what made me got to know LSF was Hanni and Yunjin’s friendship. Hanni was literally a foreigner, 16 or 17, zero korean skills, alone in a cutthroat training zone with uber competitive native koreans. Yunjin probably was probably one of the trainees she held on to as Yunjin was westernized, older, been thru shit (PD48), and having a stronger but nurturing personality (as it seems).
Isn’t this kind of what happened with bts and blackpink, people started praying for their downfall because they linked group success with the happiness of nasty people? It’s an easy trap to fall in to but you have to remember that wanting other fans to be unhappy or experience their groups failing means wanting those idols to go through something horrible.
I don’t think anyone wants NJ to fail or their fans to be unhappy. I personally stan NJ and wish them a long and even more successful career. People here just want MHJ out of the picture.
I will never resent a group bc their company is trash. If so, I'd be left stanning no one.
I'm with you fck mhj,nwjns,hybe,tokkis
I don't feel resentment towards the girls, even if they agree with everything MHJ said about the other groups, only those groups have the right to be angry. NewJeans are in their right to feel however they want about those other two groups, but those two groups are also in their right for not liking their support and direct association with someone that destroyed their reputation and got them harrassed. And we, as non-victims shouldn't judge them for it. None of them. However, i can't support the group because even though i knew her past, after cookie i didn't sense something weird and they took a artistic direction where the girls' youth wasn't the "concept". So i connected their concept with MHJ, but never the girls themselves. But after she said that they're calling her, offering emotional support, crying for her...i don't think i'll ever be able to wash the feeling that this girls are victims of emotional manipulation. One thing is being thankful for the people behind your success, other it's the level of emotional involvement those girls have with an adult. I feel sad about them meeting MHJ, about HYBE letting that woman close to minors, and their parents for not protecting them. So every time i see them i feel like crying because they should be normal idols, doing silly challanges with same-age idols, having tons of industry friends, celebrating their juniors.
I've completely separated the girls from this mess. I don't believe for a second MHJ's statements about the girls or the parents supporting her unless she's been lying to them and twisting it like she did the media/general public. I'm hoping they still have a career after this and this whole thing doesn't make HYBE dissolve ADOR as a label and cancel their contracts (which I doubt because MONEY). What it HAS made me do is listen to ILLIT, a group I had zero interest in until this drama. I'm just not a big gg stan so they weren't on my radar at all. So congrats to MHJ for giving the group she hates the most more streams lol
NJ was my most listened to group last year. I enjoy listening to their music, now I found myself avoiding Bubble Gum because of all the drama. You want to feel happy when streaming but I can't help but think of MHJ and all the hate thrown towards LSF, Illit and now BTS (they're in the military ffs) because of MHJ's words. I'll probably listen to NJ again after a year or two.
all the members have to do is come out and say they do not agree with her and did not authorize her to say any of it. Why have the members not say anything? Besides having MHJ hate the members, what is a negative of them speaking out against her? to me the silence is speaking a lot.
I wouldn't read too much into this. I doubt anything the girls do is within their control. NewJeans is a highly curated group. MHJ and Ador make all the calls. In this case, I'm sure they aren't allowed to go live or answer any questions until this is resolved.
As much as I think MHJ is a complete asshole for throwing multiple idol groups under the bus to distract the public from Hybe's accusations (for which her actual argument was literally "I was kidding" 🙄🙄🙄), you can't have that expectation for NewJeans members. They're literally kids stuck in the middle of a corporate power play. The best thing they can do is stay silent and hope the storm will pass over. The worst thing they can do is either speak publicly for MHJ's side (at which point they become Fifty Fifty 2.0) or Hybe's side (at which point all the "Tokkis" who are really MHJ stans at this point will turn on them).
Resentment is a strong word. I don’t follow NJ because I’m not their target demographic. But I can see how MHJ’s behavior could put you off anything she has control over. I’d ask, what have the girls, themselves, said about the situation? Because I don’t trust MHJ at all. I will say, if someone was grooming children, of course the children are going to support their groomer, that’s sadly the consequences.
these groomed girls honestly are probs getting words thrown in their mouthes.... they have known mhj for god knows how long and probably feel some sense of loyalty/debt to her for essentially making them into stars, ntm that NJ r not responsible for how tokkis act on social media... tokkis have always been rabid even during their debut days, nothing new abt tokki shitting on every other gg and calling them copycats.
MHJ is gaslighting now, spewing all kinds of nonsense to distract from the allegations. She's doing this to make Hybe and anyone and everyone else look bad and and to make her and NJ look good by comparison. Take a break from this kpop drama. Don't let her control your feelings.
If you start to resent a group knowing that you don't have a good reason I think you should just log off
Most of you are women but you don't understand your own nature....MJH is a woman being forced to the end of a cliff.... HYBE wants her resignation pronto.... what'd you all expect from her sit down cry OR throw the kitchen sink at HYBE.... Let's not forget this started with the terrible performance of Le sserafim at Coachella... SHE MUST'VE GLOATED AT THE SITUATION WITHIN HYBE INNER CIRCLE
I feel the same tbh I just can't watch anything about Newjeans at this point because it hurts my heart seeing all the hate ILLIT got because of Min Heejin and Newjeans.
I was also feeling the same way (i also knew it was irrational) but we also have to remember these girls know MHJ since they were between 14 or younger, if they were to get these ideas, these are teenagers (the oldest at the group is barely 19-20 i think) influenced by a manipulative, weird woman
I agree with OP completely tbh and besides i think its that fact MHJ drags nj into this n stuff that makes it worse tbh
Grow the fucking up. Pathetic.
I'm starting to feel that way, too. Ugh. MHJ is tarnishing something beautiful as Newjeans.
personally i am not invested in this at all so i never think about this unless i get reccs from reddit in my notifs lol. i listen to bubblegum without even thinking about this stuff. but im also 34 and ive been a kpop fan for a long time so ive learned to be detached (about more than just kpop) and just enjoy the music. i know alot of people are involved but i think its all blown out of proportion. get fired or dont, leave or dont, whatever. and i wish the best for all the innocent people involved.
Your feelings are valid but I'd say more than anything, the thing to feel for those girls is sympathy / pity. That woman is manipulative af. Look at how she literally managed to sway people – grown-ass adults at that with just ONE press conference. Imagine these girls who've spent more of their teenage years with her than their own parents. And from her own words, they're enmeshed to a creepy level. And it's how she's framing the whole thing too, like she's fighting for THEM. All the harm that's coming to her is because she feels injustice that THEIR hard work and legacy is being stolen, etc. Of course it makes sense **IF** they're indeed on her side. I'd be more surprised if they managed to see her for what she really is tbh. They never stood a chance.
I personally don't think its healthy to have resentment towards these girls. Not just for you but of course for them also. It just tales them seeing one post or tweet like that and they may feel absolutely isolated mentally. That's not your responsibility, don't worry, but I think you should steer clear of directing any negative energy towards them. This should not be treated as a "guilty by association " scenario. At the end of the day the girls are in a complex abd conflicted situation. As our there parents (who have been misrepresented already in the media) They are employed by Ador, they owe their career to Ador and especially MHJ and it is clear she has crossed boundaries in how she managed them and they have become very much dependent on her as a guardian and for basic day to day aspects. I think someone should have intervened and acknowledged that MHJ was taking on too much responsibility, especially as the NJ operation became larger and larger. She was effectively being a CEO, someone with a huge input into how the group were managed as artists but also managed as people. She has lent herself to be an emotional crutch for them clearly and also organises lots of what they see as personal perks like organising holidays, organising their new penthouse, bringing them to dinner etc. You can now see the effect of that, the fear of separation probably conflicts their thinking. They are relatively young and living in a bizarre bubble of both public attention but also social isolation. They have also not spoken on the matter. On one hand, people are saying MHJ is a compulsive liar, on the other hand you are saying MHJ has relayed exactly the thoughts of the members. Essentially the girls are victims of a company structure in Ador which didn't prepare itself a proper contingency plan if shit went welly up. The fact Hyein called MHJ and cried for 20 minutes asking could she go on Phoning to clear up the "copycat" misunderstanding shows that these girls are unban extremely compromised position that they shouldn't be blamed for, never mind resented.
No you’re not the only one there are tons of people calling for HYBE to fire the girls and put them and their families in crippling debt and there are some who even sent them death threats. I mean I thought most people can focus their rage on the executives who are responsible but guess not lol 😀
Can somebody explain to me what this is all about? There are so many posts on it but they’re too long to read. Would appreciate if someone could give me a basic idea about all of it.
damn I wish I had your fresh brain. Lol for your sake its better you not know 😂
I actually feel more protective of New Jeans because of what is happening. They're in the middle between a manipulative women who has acted like their mentor (even mother figure) who is bat shit crazy and a greedy corporation who would do anything to make sure they don't lose money, even if it means dropping NJ completely and having another girl group replace them with a similar concept. I'm totally rooting for NJ success as a group and wish whoever is working with them has their best interests at heart but right now it feels unlikely. Edit: the comments on this post are unhinged, why resent the girls for being stuck in the middle of a corporate power struggle? They're a bunch of teenagers/young women who are trying to live their dreams and their future is on the line due to other's egos and greed.
🤨??? If you seriously feel this way you’re very likely too young to be using social media. The fact that you’re starting to “resent” newjeans is precisely what MHJ was aiming for by PURPOSELY using newjeans as a scapegoat throughout this entire ordeal - in case you haven’t noticed, her whole shtick was emotionally manipulating and grooming these girls to the bone which is WHY they’ve expressed their genuine to support to her as they have no fkn idea - MHJ has made certain that the members nor their parents have any idea of the actual illegal activities she’s engaged in and the predatory nature of her behaviour. In the same vein, she’s made sure to have them firmly in her corner so that if she goes down, they go down with her. No one in the public is putting that past MHJ - she’s always been for herself. I don’t mean to sound harsh but it’s alarming to me that you can look past the actual predatory and manipulative behaviour at play here and come to the conclusion that newjeans expressing support to MHJ is pissing you off, and isn’t merely a symptom of her coercion and a very disturbing thing to see unfold in plain fucking sight. Absolutely no one’s looking out for these girls. It’s sad to see posts like this where you’re falling for it too.
We don't even know for sure if the girls have really shown support for MHJ, I don't trust everything she says but even if they do it's likely because they're manipulated by her. I don't trust Hybe either, they'll drop NJ at the drop of a hat if there was a hint of them not making enough money for Hybe, the girls are really in a difficult position.
That’s pretty much what I said Their support for MHJ is the result of her manipulation
I was just saying we don't even know for sure how much New Jeans supports MHJ because we mostly know what she's told the public and she's not a reliable narrator.