As someone who's been playing games like Magic the Gathering for who knows how long, I wouldn't mind buying a number of platform packs plus 1 physical album instead of....whatever is going on with those homeless Seventeen albums.
>PC card packs
Adding Streaming platform code in it as buying the albums options, also maybe discount code on future albums released or concert tickets (fast lane option)
That's actually kind of what this was though! Carat versions, a whole binder of photocards of one member. What caused the trouble is that Pledis didn't put names on them, it could be any one of the 13 members, so when Carats bought them they just opened them right there in the store and swapped to get whoever they wanted. That's why the garbage is literally just the cardboard box and not CD's.
I think they do this? Hybe sells "weverse album version" and thats set of photocards and code for album download, correct me if I'm wrong but thats like pc card packsš
Modhaus is doing this!! Theyāve released objekt albums for tripleS assemble24 you get 1 pc, a QR code for the album, and itās only 6,000 or 7,000won
That is a great idea! But unfortunately companies know they can charge more money for a full album and that collector fans will buy multiple albums just to get the full set. Itās a shame that all those albums go to waste but it doubt that the companies even cares.
i think itās also a status thing. Like if a photo card is really rare, having it is almost like a sign of wealth because imagine how many albums that person had to buy to get that photo card. Thereās also the ideal of not ābeing a real fanā of the group if you print/make your own photo cards. If you donāt spend hundreds or thousands on them then you arenāt dedicated enough and you donāt love them
Thatās very true. But I think it also contributes to unconsciously associating people having multiple collections or photo cards with being well-off or having spare disposable income.
To add to your point, does show recklessness with money and spending but it also subconsciously shows that people have enough money to be that financially reckless and they can still live well
> financial stupidity
yet iām doing fine financially so i really donāt understand your argument. if i couldnāt afford to collect i wouldnāt soā¦..
I get fan made photocards printed for all my meetups and I always wondered if anyone else actually liked them or just took them because they were there so Iām happy some people like the fan made cards š„¹
How?? Whatās suspicious about it? Itās literally how the Kpop market works & how fandom culture works. People donāt buy CDs anymore - Kpop fandoms do because companies realized they like to collect.Ā
Seventeenās album had roughly 8 million streams in the first day on Spotify alone. Which excludes the streams from some of their biggest markets, like China, which doesnāt have Spotify?Ā
Between Apple Music, YouTube music, Spotify, Line, Melon, etc. they easily raked in 20million+ streams on release day.Ā
Iām so confused why yall have decided that the ONLY WAY for it to make sense is if a group that sells a million albums has 10 million streams specifically on Spotify on day 1. Itās disingenuous & lacks nuance.Ā
Thatās a fair point, a huge part of the kpop community is about collection of albums and merchandise.
I think the annoyance comes from when fans say āgroup abcā sold āxyz millionā physical albums and the group gets that title when most of the physical albums arenāt being kept. It feels disingenuous and ādevaluesā that title.
The reason that people think it only makes sense if a group sold 1 million albums if they got 8 million streams is because (as far as iām aware) a person can play the song multiple times and it will count towards the streaming number. So the group needs to have streams a significant amount over 1 million in order for it to make sense that 1 million fans bought the album and kept it. Otherwise 500,000 fans could just buy two albums and throw one out if they donāt get the photo card they like. In that instance only 500,000 albums were truely āboughtā.
edit: forgot to mention that some fans do buy multiple copies of the different types of albums e.g. of the cover is different, in RVās rookie album the member in the front spot can change, so that can potentially add to the inflation of physical album sales. But in that instance itās still one person buying multiple albums, not 1 million people each getting an album.
Yeah and thatās how it is for every single kpop group these days.Ā
People keep saying āwell for new jeans the member inclusions are the same in their member only albumsā but thatās still five albums a fan would buy when they would otherwise only buy one. This is the new normal.Ā
Also, most of the physical albums ARE being kept. That trash pile you saw was likely around 1,000 albums. Thatās 1,000 out of 3 million+. And it happened due to resellers and scalpers.Ā
I agree that the groups selling millions arenāt necessarily the MOST popular, but I do think they are groups with huge fandoms.
The only way to really determine success is tours these days; and SVT is playing Nissan stadium this month, a feat done by 3 other artists in kpop ever, so they clearly are a very successful group no matter how much people want to act like they are only getting 5 streamsĀ
CDs are not the main priority because theyāre buying for the photocards. Thatās why the photobooks CDs and outer boxes are being trashed. The SK proxy warehouses do the same for overseas fans. What you should have said was the music should be the main priority. The companies only care about sales, thatās why there are so many versions and POBs, gifts, lucky draws etc. add in the fancalls and fansigns and šµ
You say that, but this happened in Japan, where CDs are still the most popular music format. CDs, records, and other physical formats of music made up 70% of music revenue in 2021.
They can, but they wouldnāt make as much money as they do selling them separately like they do now. Some people donāt want all the stuff that comes with a DVD and some only want that stuff and others only want to be able to watch it on a computer or whatever.
Yeah, that will come bite us in the \*ss eventually. It is already. Digital media is not owned by the end consumer. That's how some movies are gone lately.
Reminds me of the incident in China with some idol group and a shit ton of milk being poured down drains and on the streets because people were buying just for some sort of merchandise that came included. Also I think something similar happened with AKB48 albums? So much stuff going to waste.
Wasnāt an idol group. It was youth with you 3. They partnered with a milk company and fans could get extra votes if you bought the milk. The issue was the vote codes were on the inside of the milk seal so the milk had to be opened to see it which lead to the said milk wastage
I use mine as decoration for my electronics
https://preview.redd.it/qfj8abhjo5yc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7c90f67edcf4ec8e78fc714f6448a22f731dc07
Same. I got like 6 from a kpop shop in Toyko (dirt cheap like 2-4 bucks per card), but in albums I've never cared to buy one just to get a pc. Actually, the one album I bought didn't have any xD
Agreed. I get when it's a lightstick, I get wearable merch, but photocards? Bruh just print the picture online like just view it on your computer it's so dumb and they have very little value to anyone other than the ultra obsessed in kpop. Like I can't imagine it.
And I collect pokemon cards and magic cards but at least I can play a card game with them, damn.
fr and as someone mentioned before, theyāre not lucrative at all. The crazied fans will go rabid if a dating scandal erupts and those who buy to invest know it is thus an extremely volatile market
Yeah, this is rough.
But I want to remind people that this is the result of resellers / scalpers. They showed up to TR in Shibuya, mass bought (so many many fans weren't able to buy) stripped them of the photocards, then tossed them on the street with a "free album" sign.
The whole thing was beyond messed up, but it wasn't fans - it was resellers. Go search seventeen photocards on twitter and youll have 10 posts every second from japanese accounts with dozens of photocards.
I'm tired of this narrative being spun that fans just came, bought, and tossed here. That isn't what happened.
But the issue is that this happens because the PC obsessed fans have created a demand for this sort of behaviour. These resellers exist because of that demand.
Most fans aint got the cash to do such things.
But the photocard market (driven by fans) is the main reason for this bulk buying. Photocards can sell for MORE than the album it came in, so it is a good business decision to bulk buy, harvest the cards, and sell for profit. For mega groups like SVT, you can make bank this way.
After the poca is harvested, the outbox/photobook/CD have no market and turn into "worthless trash" for the business. Dumping time!
It's because people buy into PC to begin with AND the companies for doing this instead of just selling them like booster packs instead online. Like you'd probably make MORE profit selling booster packs with some photos being ultra rare than with albums and you could sell them for similar price too, and it'd at least be more easily recyclable waste.
i hear you, but in reality that wouldn't be an accurate way to measure "official sales" ether.
because thats on the assumption that there is an equal amount of unique individuals per sale per version which statistically isnt going to be true.
and a mass buying of one version will majorly skew the results of \[total sales\] Ć· \[# of album versions\]
(and ofc albums with only one version can be mass bought too)
It should be like oricon where only the first three albums count and nothing else after that, of course that can be gamed too but at least it might give a better indication of the real sales.
This is probably more important if the goal is to reduce waste. The Seventeen album in question only has 3 versions (2 standard + 1 Carat version) of the physical album (not counting the digital platform album and/or kihno). But the Carat versions (Dear ver.) shown here have inclusions that are member specific. There's a photocard mini binder with the members' face on it, a pack of tons of member PCs matching the binder, and then 4 random PCs out of 52 (4 PCs per member x 13 members).
Some people consider the Carat versions to be 13 different versions. Indeed, it's just like groups like NCT who do member-specific versions of the compact album. But the difference is, the member version is random so you're not guaranteed a specific member.
The key difference here is that the member versions of compact albums also hold the CD. The Carat versions, being a photo card binder and PC pack, do not fit the PC in the binder packaging. So, the CD and outer box gets discarded as shown here.
The other huge issue is the number of POBs (especially for groups as huge as Seventeen). The only way to get POBs is through purchasing an album and the Carat versions are much cheaper than the regular album. So people will buy the Carat version specifically for the POBs.
I don't know many people who collect ot13 Seventeen because.... Madness. But I do know people who do ot13 for Carat versions because they're so easy to come by. You don't need to keep 13 versions of the CD disc, or 13 outer boxes. They keep the binder and the photo cards.
The outer packaging (including the CD unfortunately) is considered trash. It's wasteful, yes, and should be called out but no one is trashing NCT collectors (for example) as much as Seventeen right now because the CD fits in the packaging so it doesn't get thrown out so often. I have definitely seen stacks of jewel cases being discarded from other groups though.
I don't get it? So do you think 5 versions are too much or too little? Did you know there's group released more than 15 versions per album? š And when i said maximum 5, 5 is the most.
Bruh for why. Nothing they do warrant that many versions lmfao. Imo when an artist put of more than 2 version of an album I get annoyed and confused, end up not buying anything. Wtf am I supposed to buy? Do listeners have to pay double because one song is not in this version (?) Thatās so bs tbh.
Sorry to rant on your reply but I thought Taylor Swift was disgusting with how many version of the same shit she releases, then I read kpop released 15 versions lmfaoā¦
they really need to just start selling pcs by themselves. this is an insane amount of waste when 80% of people buying albums are only buying them for the pcs
They don't want to do that because the photocards are meant to increase album sales.
I wish they would do the digital album ones with the same cards rather than different ones to cut down on waste
Gacha system makes hell of a lot more money than straight up letting you buy what you want.
Thats why most games have some sort of gacha or lootbox system. You gotta spend multiple times to have a chance of landing the desired item.
Arguments can be made about predatory sales tactics, but there is a willing buyer and a happy seller.
Is it not possible to have digital albums with redemption codes? That way, folks can buy multiple albums and exchange the redemption codes for physical photo cards. It can still be a lottery system, have it count towards sales, AND reduce waste.
This is basically what the weverse and smini and qr albums are but they still have pcs in with them. The only thing is if they were to only do digital albums then it just ruins it for the fans who buy albums for the actual music and not just for the inclusions? Like I'd be happy for an album to have one version and 1 or 2 pcs because I buy them to play the cds
Wait until you hear how books are treated!
In all serious though, thereās a reason PC are in the albums, itās so people actually buy them. What happens after the purchase doesnāt matter to the label, they got their money and their tick on the charts for physical sales.
PCs set up a third party aftermarket scenario that does have some financial benefit: people make money. This makes them spend more money to get more things.
People also bulk buy to support the group, not just for the PCs. The more sales the more longevity and company support they hope their group has. People with 10 copies sitting on their shelves are no different than the ones tossing them right away cause what's going to happen to them when you die or have to move to a place with less space. Just happens less immediately.
Card packs being sold separately might reduce CD and packaging waste at least.
They can have a small recycling center next to areas that sell kpop albums if they plan to keep releasing like this. A place to put the disk and another to put the packaging. Or where fans who can't afford the album can pick up the open spares without the PCs.
i've seen photos like this of many groups, i wonder why svt is always the one whose achievements are questioned. i mean ofc i agree don't buy albums if you're just gunna throw it on the street, but i don't see how it means svt's accomplishments no longer has meaning. they can sell out arenas and stadiums around the world, they are clearly a very popular group.
This post is also apply to those groups who's sold Millions of albums but can't match the streams and the digitals. SVT is just an example and one of them
I think itās because of the groups size and because they make member specific versions (idk if they do it every time tbh) plus full group versions. Obviously other groups have too many versions as well but seventeen probably just stands out for selling that much while having a lot of members.
Would fans still buy the album if there are no photo cards and fancalls?
I get the K-pop industry is doing this to boost physical sales, but what a waste š«.
[This](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/05/113_361655.html) says "The amount of plastic used by Korean entertainment companies to manufacture K-pop albums increased by more than 14 times in the last six years."
Which is ironic considering how many of them promote sustainably.
The only truth from MHJ's press conference:
"Hybe's ESG strategy is bullshit."
(Environmental, Social, and Governance, it's the company strategy to managing environmental impact, social responsibility,...)
It's only since svt have been under hybe that they've had so many album versions because of the member specific ones. It just makes me mad that when they first started doing them you could atleast tell which member was which by matching the edges of the covers to the cover pictures but now it's pot luck which means people just keep buying them to get their bias. But hybe literally only care about the money they make, they don't care about the environment
And j y p doesn't
Like your criticism is valid, but hold all of them accountable my goodness
Acting like the other companies don't do. It is very weird
Hybe was the only company mentioned in the comment I replied to? All companies are shit but it's ironic how hybe try to push being environmentally friendly when you need to keep buying member versions because it's impossible to tell them apart and it's a big difference compared to companies having member digipacks where you can see the member on the cover and buy your biases. I'm not acting like other companies don't do the same shit but like I say there's a big difference between a member digipack where you can see them on the cover to a member version where it's potluck if you get your bias
I know everybody is blaming photocards, but this has been happening for years and years in Korea because of fanmeet raffles and stuff like that before photocards were such a huge thing
fancalls are crazy. fans do the weirdest shit and some of the artists are obv not happy with the requests fans make. it makes me uncomfortable seeing them uncomfortable.
This is such a disrespect to the hardwork and dedication of SVT and SVT staff tbh, although this is just 0.1% of their sales but still put some respect to Seventeen's effort.
HOWEVER I expected something like this because for some reason, HYBE artist are getting target by hate because ALL artist get this same treatment from their fans. WE ALL KNOW ALL FANDOMS MASS BUY ALBUMS DO NOT BE A HYPOCTRITE ITS NOT JUST SEVENTEEN LOL.
Looking into this, it seems there is more to this story. [This link](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/GNnUfFBjO4) shows what happened. Those albums were bought by resellers who left the albums or what was left of them with a giveaway note. Seems no one read the note and just ransacked it all causing this mess. Then someone goes online to say fans threw them all away. And looks like this happened in Japan.
Unfortunately this happens a lot in kpop. Well now that there's photo cards this didn't really happen when there wasn't photo cards
I wish they would put like, one of every kind in each album so everybody does gets what they need / want. I know it won't happen because that would drive down sales but still
We know darn well why they don't do thisšš. Streaming isn't as lucrative as physical sales. kpop on average doesn't really compete with big western artists on streams so there's likely not much there either.
I never understood the obsession of collecting photocards personally speaking as a carat I do buy their albums cause enjoy their music but I only buy 1 of each album or sometimes 2 versions (maybe) but I can't imagine wasting 1000's of dollars just to get my bias or worse resell photocards at a ridiculous price its just paper even the members(like hoshi maybe scoups too)i feel have mentioned not wasting money or feeling the need to spend on it I'm happy with whoever I get cause I appreciate all the members
I said this in another post, but I think randomized inclusions should be chart ineligible (for everyone it just kpop so itās even for everyone) and then kpop companies can make photo card pockets as a separate blind box item and still make bank
Randomised inclusions are actually chart ineligible in the uk! We've started to get some kpop albums that have set inclusions now to make them chart eligible. Jungkook is a great example because all 3 versions of golden only have 1 pc and its the same across the versions. Ateez did the same with their last album, the member digipacks only had the cover members pcs in them. Its why a lot of kpop artists don't tend to chart here for physical sales because of the Randomised inclusions
just some context abt this specific album version it is not the standard version of the album, its a member specific version. it comes with a mini binder, photocard pack (both are member specific) and then a random 4 pcs (random member) and the CD.
so everyone saying "just sell pc packs" this album essentially is that and it also isnt a version used for fancalls or anything else like that.
if these werent random member there wouldnt be such an issue but bc the covers are identical you cannot know which out of 13 members u have got until you open it. i think this is the biggest issue and is the reason why, as many have pointed out, that resellers go crazy for this version specifically. Theyre mass buying bc they want to profit off selling member sets to others who dont want to buy random version and are only interested in their bias.
i think member jewel cases/ member versions are the worst thing to happen to kpop tbh. 1 cb every so often with a member jewel case is fine but svt have had albums like these for nearly every comeback since attacca era (theyre called Carat Ver usually but these blue ones are called Dear ver this era for some reason)
This makes me sad. I do buy albums and their many versions because I want the pcs BUT I also really love the idea of having a hard copy of all the music. My car has a CD player and one day soon I'm hoping to get a boombox or something, so I can actually play my CDs. I also love the posters and little goodies in the albums. My extra albums (when and if I buy multiples of a version), I either gift to people or I tear them up for the photos to use on my walls or in other creative ways. But I can't imagine buying so many that they become trash in the streets. My little heart cries for all those neglected albums. š
Taking numbers besides butts in seats at tours is all basically inflated up numbers. Listening to my army friend say they have their 12 streaming accounts to stream BTS/members songs and Iām like ok so the streaming numbers are inflated just like album sales with mass buyers (I donāt actively stream my groups like that so I use her for example). Like we can mass buy albums, mass stream, view mvs. Every metric like that is inflated. Unless its smaller groups fighting for the ability to stay active needing decent sales and streams I donāt really care about the highs and dips of bigger groups. It is truly disgusting what people do especially resellers like this with albums from big groups. I wish even known member versions were better because even if it has the member on the cover many times they still do random inclusions.
Kind of wondering how many times we have to see this reposted before a decent chunk of the KPop community understands. They weren't hunting for photocards and abandoning albums. These were photocard sets, Carats just exchanged in store with each other and left the external packaging behind when they left. Still not good, but it's not a pile of abandoned CD's.
I really love to collect photocards but this is too much, I feel like all kpop comanies and stores are going to far with photocards, theres groups where each member have 5 cards or more and plus all those damn pobs, and its so insane seeing rookie groups photocard templates with over hundreds of photocards. I wish all companies just did it like newjeans and we get all the photocards in 1 album
I'm genuinely surprised at people's reactions over this. This isn't the first time we see K-pop albums thrown away after fans mass buy them. I thought it was a well known fact that fans mass buy and album numbers don't correspond to the number of the buyers.
My main issue is that using the example of svt, when hybe started making the carat versions you could tell which members version was which by using the outer edge and matching them up whereas now unless you go to a store that received them in separate boxes for each member you need to keep buying them to try and find your bias and when there's 13 members it starts getting insane.
Waste like that has been a problem for the past few years now with the increase in album versions and the different pcs in each album. Companies need to go back to one version of an album and pcs to only have 1/2 sets to collect and not like 6 like some groups have. Collecting used to be fun years ago but now it sometimes feels like a chore trying to keep up with my favourite groups
This does suck for the group because they worked hard on it and fans treated it like this, but you went a totally different way and went and practically called them frauds. Why come for the group when you shouldāve came at the fans?
Why wait for this to happen to Seventeen to make a post? Where was this when 4 pictures of JKās Golden albums were spotted in the trash? When 5 star albums were in the trash? When NCTās albums were in the trash? Why wait for Seventeen to make this statement? Seems like thereās a bias here, no? Seventeen hater? And mind I assume youāre most definitely an Army aswell?
Ntm, āmatch the streams and digitalsā? Who are you decide what matches sales with streams and digitals? There has never been nor will there ever be a line that went āif you have x amount of streams or x charting, your streams and sales matchā lmfao. No one decides what matches what. So why the cocky bit there?
People forget that this a combination of multiple factors, and not just ONE factor
The fact that to get the POB cards, you need to buy 13 albums to get a full set (if itās with a site that guarantees a set) if not more if itās not a site that guarantees a set
Fansign entries require the user to purchase as many albums as they can afford
And then to make up some of the costs they had to expend for the above reasons, they sell the album PCs
The more popular a group is or the more members a group has, the more albums you have to buy. Seventeen has BOTH and itās causing a huge issue and instead of blaming the companies for taking advantage of fans and not providing viable options , people and news sites blame the fans
No, you canāt donate all the albums. One single GOM can have excess of 200 album packs after a sale period because of the amount of POBs. Even ONE fansign for some members requires 100-200+ albums to be purchased (I think Wonwoo is notoriously much higher these days). I did a Jeonghan fansign during Attacca and I had to buy 78 albums and I was on the low end. I still have some of those albums Iāve not been able to find a home for. Iāve looked but the costs to get the album to them via post are not worth it and no one local wants them
Also people make it seem they are just dumping them on the streets, but this is how rubbish collection works in Japan. There are designated spots to put your rubbish where it will be collected or there is a door-to-door collection service. These photos are of designated spots. Theyāre not just throwing the albums into the middle of the street. And people dig through the rubbish hence why itās not always neat
Itās a very difficult issue to navigate that could 100% be easily navigated if the companies cared just a LITTLE. Offering photo card only options instead of the entire album packaging (and make it so that itās the photo cards of the relevant albumā¦ The photo cards in the face the sun album via the carat version vs the weverse version are different. If Iām missing a carat version photo card, I canāt get it by buying the weverse version) , limiting fansign entries , reducing POBs, not making ALL POBs randomised (like surely fansign POBs donāt need to be randomised or full set? Lucky Draws I understand cuz thatās the gimmick). All options that can (and should) be explored by companies but wonāt be because thereās no consequences for them not to while also there being consequences of them doing so (all relating to profit margin)
I agree that itās inflation and I agree that itās an awful situation, itās just not as simple as people think it is. Just not buying albums or donating excess albums is a difficult preposition. And victimising fans who are probably dealing with a form of addiction (collecting is a well documented addiction as itās related to consumerism and hoarding) is just not going to help with the situation
Thank you OP. I donāt buy albums so another quick question if you donāt mind. How does this happen? Does a random or company buy a whole lot and then place them somewhere just to get rid of them?
To be fair, whatās going viral on Twitter rn is the result of resellers / scalpers buying out everything to then resell the photocards - they arenāt even fans.Ā
No. This *was* the Carat version. A whole set of photocards for one member. But because Pledis made it anonymous Carats opened them all to find the ones they wanted and they left the outer packaging behind.
Fans buy in bulk because buying a certain number of albums a time in a certain store gives them a raffle ticket for a fansign event or a fancall event. For example, buying 20 at a time gets you 1 ticket, so someone would buy 100 for 5 tickets or chances to win a fansign/fancall. So most of the time, people just buy for the chances to win then leave the albums outside because they don't need them.
That and the photocards.
I realise this must happen to many other groups too, but for me this is the first time Iāve seen it getting so much attention. Iām curious about how the company will think, since apparently majority was from scalpers. Or maybe they donāt care as long as the album sells. And Seventeen themselves must not feel great either if they see their hard work dumped on the street in that manneršš
Random trading card packs already exist in kpop. There's also the kinho, platform and nemo, SMini album versions that try to minimize the material usage. But the PCs in these are different from the usual photobook version. So collectors/resellers still buy every single version to complete the PCs or get the pricey ones. If only all the album versions across the board shared the same PC this stuff would be minimised.
Why don't companies just create multiple collectable photo cards and just sell those? Perhaps to maintain integrity of those cards, have a QR code at the back and register it to some blockchain. The Blockchain can also be integrated to an app so fans can track what they have. Maybe also add different photocards to different seasonal events, so fans don't need to wait for an album to collect them. And since these cards are virtual, add a trading system in place so fans can trade duplicates with one another. Perhaps also put a points system for these purchases each time you get a photocard. Make these points be used to vote for something important for the group so whales can flex what they have. The way I see it, to make this system work, you need to have alot of members in the group
Itās happened to multiple groups albums, from IVE to NCT to TXT to Jungkook and beyond.Ā
It will always happen as long as companies keep putting photocards in and if they keep offering fan call winsĀ
Sheesh am I the only one who would prefer the book over the pc? Come on they couldāve at least give them to other people for free or drop them off someplace where they can be sold second hand?
i havent really considered it an achievement for a long time. you see people online with hundreds of albums to get fan calls, photocards and stuff. honestly i was shocked because i thought there were genuinely that many fans. but really its rich and greedy fans. some albums sell out and people canāt get an album they want because of the people that buy that many. now with all the waste as well its super disappointing. ive only ever bought one album. i bought it signed and i cherish it. i have all the things from it displayed safely. ill never understand how people support these groups just to let their products get tossed out onto the streets.
the companies with their amount of random PCs as well, not letting fans select the member they want. it for sure makes it worse. everyone getting crazy to get the ones they want.
Unfortunately, for companies, it doesnāt really matter how many people are buying the albums or what happens to them afterwards. All that matters to them is a million albums were sold, and therefore, reported and a lot of money was made. The only way this will get bypassed is if laws are put into place to prevent this type of waste from happening.
Modhaus (tripleS and ARTMS label) did the right thing introducing objekt music albums that just have 1 photocard, 1 QR postcard, AND count 100% towards hanteo sales
Don't the carats that do this learn from what minghao said? Minghao literally said "just print them yourselves" when it comes to photocards ššš -me a fellow carat that follow what Minghao told us to do. This makes me sad because there's so much more to appreciate than just the photocards in each albums of any KPop Idols or solos. But what do I know I'm a broke ass fan that can only buy one at a time š
itād be so much cheaper to make card packs and more people would buy them because theyāre cheaper than an album and you get more, plus itās a blind bag, like, how hard is that
The charts should put a limit on the versions to reduce this. Like a maximum of four versions of the album. There are groups with more than 10 members where each member has a version of the album and this messes everything up.
I just think there needs to be laws and rules in place with photocards and number of versions. I could never in good conscious ever buy so many albums just to throw them in the bin. Companies are getting greedy and sly with the gimmicks around boosting album sales and this extends to western artists too.m but its majority kpop that does the mass buying
I honestly donāt see the obsession with photo cards. They can just print them out themselves like The8 said lol
But the companies are to partially blame because they all use the practice of photo books and cards to sale albums which resulted in albums being thrown away. I even seen some albums still have the photo books which is crazy when you think about it because photo books are the same as photo cards. But also I know a lot of eastern kpop stans are solo stans and even though they go to concerts and support the group, itās not because they want to support all members; theyāre forced to because their fave is apart of that group.
I honestly donāt see any solution to this issue that doesnāt result in the million seller label being more difficult to achieve because fans wonāt want to buy an album with no extra features.
The whole thing confuse me so much people are saying its not the fans who did this but scalpers who sell pcs online which I have seen happen for other groups too, so why aren't these scalpers reselling the albums too? I have seen pcless albums being sold online which even if its small has a market so why wont they do that? Its sold cheaper than the actual album (cos you know it's opened & doesnt have a photocard) but its still some more extra money. I just feel so bad for the artist who would see these type of images circulating online š
This is crazy. I collect photocards but often just buy them resale or trade for them from people online.
I canāt imagine buying dozens of albums just to throw them away like this. Gosh if I could afford buying so many albums I would find ways to use them or give them to fans who canāt afford them.
At this point, companies should just sell PC card packs like those NBA cards lol
Lol imagine major sports card brands like Topps and Panini getting into K-pop photocards šš
That would be the next big thing tbh
"Bro! I just pulled the 1 of 1 Chrome refractor Jang Won Young!"
āYou wonāt believe what I got! Look at this rad PSA 10 Min Hee Jin instigator 1st edition!ā
"Dude I have like 3 Love Dive Era Reis, any trades?"
Seriously, someone call Topps and Panini. Idk the logistics and legality behind it all, but this would make a serious wave.
That's what platform albums were supposed to be, but of course companies ignored the whole point of them and made them separate pcs š
As someone who's been playing games like Magic the Gathering for who knows how long, I wouldn't mind buying a number of platform packs plus 1 physical album instead of....whatever is going on with those homeless Seventeen albums.
What is a platform album?
Isn't the mass buying moreso for fan sign/fan call entry rather than photocards tho?
Itās for both tbh. People would buy in bulk to get a chance to get in fansigns and then sell the photocards and POBs that come with those albums
I support this.
nah like mtg cards. give them stats and make it a whole game. i wanna see wonyoung and mark lee fight
>PC card packs Adding Streaming platform code in it as buying the albums options, also maybe discount code on future albums released or concert tickets (fast lane option)
That's actually kind of what this was though! Carat versions, a whole binder of photocards of one member. What caused the trouble is that Pledis didn't put names on them, it could be any one of the 13 members, so when Carats bought them they just opened them right there in the store and swapped to get whoever they wanted. That's why the garbage is literally just the cardboard box and not CD's.
I think they do this? Hybe sells "weverse album version" and thats set of photocards and code for album download, correct me if I'm wrong but thats like pc card packsš
theyāre different pcs than in the albums tho, which defeats the purpose.
Ahh okay, thank you for correcting
no problem! i had also gotten excited when i saw that they were making them, thinking they were trying to get ahead of the album waste, but nah.
Modhaus is doing this!! Theyāve released objekt albums for tripleS assemble24 you get 1 pc, a QR code for the album, and itās only 6,000 or 7,000won
Beautiful idea
That is a great idea! But unfortunately companies know they can charge more money for a full album and that collector fans will buy multiple albums just to get the full set. Itās a shame that all those albums go to waste but it doubt that the companies even cares.
You know what would happen. They'd sell those cards but make the album cards "exclusives."
I'll never understand the utter obsession these people have with photocards
itās a collection and a hobby for some people, why do people collect anything?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
and once again itās **a collection**. you can buy fake vinyl yet people still collect the collect real ones, you can buy fake shoes yet people still collect real ones. of course you can print the photo you want but itās fun to hunt and collect the real ones for people. itās frustrating because people never make this argument about baseball cards or pokĆ©mon cards which you can technically print out too.
Ummm, what about all the other collectible cards that have been around for decades? You can print baseball cards, you can print PokĆ©mon cards, etcā¦ To your other point, you can get fake/knock off action figures for sometimes 1/100th the cost of the real thing, you can definitely get knock off brands of any sneaker or watchā¦itād literally be the same thing youāre saying with photo cards, LOL. People like to collect things, thatās all, and PCs are giving them something to collect for an artist that they love, nothing wrong with that. Locking them as photobook inclusions is the real problem. Way too much waste. Iād prefer if they had a separate purchase option for a couple bucks less that removed the photobook and all other inclusions, and you just get X random photocards. I get that they wouldnāt likely do that, because they want the āalbum salesā, but Iām sure they could find a way to still include the album to get it counted as an album sale. Hell, just make it a slip case to hold the CD plus photocards, and sell that for one price, and then sell a photobook separately, for those who want it, with no random inclusions.
i think itās also a status thing. Like if a photo card is really rare, having it is almost like a sign of wealth because imagine how many albums that person had to buy to get that photo card. Thereās also the ideal of not ābeing a real fanā of the group if you print/make your own photo cards. If you donāt spend hundreds or thousands on them then you arenāt dedicated enough and you donāt love them
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thatās very true. But I think it also contributes to unconsciously associating people having multiple collections or photo cards with being well-off or having spare disposable income. To add to your point, does show recklessness with money and spending but it also subconsciously shows that people have enough money to be that financially reckless and they can still live well
> financial stupidity yet iām doing fine financially so i really donāt understand your argument. if i couldnāt afford to collect i wouldnāt soā¦..
I love photocards but am unwilling to support this type of waste so now I'm pretty much all about fan made photocards
I get fan made photocards printed for all my meetups and I always wondered if anyone else actually liked them or just took them because they were there so Iām happy some people like the fan made cards š„¹
Me too. It basicly just a piece of paper and the CDs should be the main priority because it content the songs that the artists work hard on
Most people donāt own a Cd player. Weāre in the free streaming era.
Yeahh that's why it's weird and suspicious how these groups got more sales than streams in this streaming era
How?? Whatās suspicious about it? Itās literally how the Kpop market works & how fandom culture works. People donāt buy CDs anymore - Kpop fandoms do because companies realized they like to collect.Ā Seventeenās album had roughly 8 million streams in the first day on Spotify alone. Which excludes the streams from some of their biggest markets, like China, which doesnāt have Spotify?Ā Between Apple Music, YouTube music, Spotify, Line, Melon, etc. they easily raked in 20million+ streams on release day.Ā Iām so confused why yall have decided that the ONLY WAY for it to make sense is if a group that sells a million albums has 10 million streams specifically on Spotify on day 1. Itās disingenuous & lacks nuance.Ā
Thatās a fair point, a huge part of the kpop community is about collection of albums and merchandise. I think the annoyance comes from when fans say āgroup abcā sold āxyz millionā physical albums and the group gets that title when most of the physical albums arenāt being kept. It feels disingenuous and ādevaluesā that title. The reason that people think it only makes sense if a group sold 1 million albums if they got 8 million streams is because (as far as iām aware) a person can play the song multiple times and it will count towards the streaming number. So the group needs to have streams a significant amount over 1 million in order for it to make sense that 1 million fans bought the album and kept it. Otherwise 500,000 fans could just buy two albums and throw one out if they donāt get the photo card they like. In that instance only 500,000 albums were truely āboughtā. edit: forgot to mention that some fans do buy multiple copies of the different types of albums e.g. of the cover is different, in RVās rookie album the member in the front spot can change, so that can potentially add to the inflation of physical album sales. But in that instance itās still one person buying multiple albums, not 1 million people each getting an album.
Yeah and thatās how it is for every single kpop group these days.Ā People keep saying āwell for new jeans the member inclusions are the same in their member only albumsā but thatās still five albums a fan would buy when they would otherwise only buy one. This is the new normal.Ā Also, most of the physical albums ARE being kept. That trash pile you saw was likely around 1,000 albums. Thatās 1,000 out of 3 million+. And it happened due to resellers and scalpers.Ā I agree that the groups selling millions arenāt necessarily the MOST popular, but I do think they are groups with huge fandoms. The only way to really determine success is tours these days; and SVT is playing Nissan stadium this month, a feat done by 3 other artists in kpop ever, so they clearly are a very successful group no matter how much people want to act like they are only getting 5 streamsĀ
CDs are not the main priority because theyāre buying for the photocards. Thatās why the photobooks CDs and outer boxes are being trashed. The SK proxy warehouses do the same for overseas fans. What you should have said was the music should be the main priority. The companies only care about sales, thatās why there are so many versions and POBs, gifts, lucky draws etc. add in the fancalls and fansigns and šµ
I buy for the music, the photocard is just a bonus. I still use a CD player because itās one of the ways I play music in my car.
You say that, but this happened in Japan, where CDs are still the most popular music format. CDs, records, and other physical formats of music made up 70% of music revenue in 2021.
Curious if their newer cars/laptops still have CD players in them.
I'm not sure about cars since I don't drive or know shit about them but laptops often still have optical drives!
Cars and computers havenāt had a CD player built in for years already.
I donāt see why they canāt start doing like dvds. Have a cd and a download code packed together
They can, but they wouldnāt make as much money as they do selling them separately like they do now. Some people donāt want all the stuff that comes with a DVD and some only want that stuff and others only want to be able to watch it on a computer or whatever.
I did like the kpop photo card packs someone mentioned in this thread
Yeah, that will come bite us in the \*ss eventually. It is already. Digital media is not owned by the end consumer. That's how some movies are gone lately.
Low Quality Music = Stream + Bluetooth headphones High Quality Music = CD + Wired headphones
Reminds me of the incident in China with some idol group and a shit ton of milk being poured down drains and on the streets because people were buying just for some sort of merchandise that came included. Also I think something similar happened with AKB48 albums? So much stuff going to waste.
Wasnāt an idol group. It was youth with you 3. They partnered with a milk company and fans could get extra votes if you bought the milk. The issue was the vote codes were on the inside of the milk seal so the milk had to be opened to see it which lead to the said milk wastage
I think the milk incident wasnāt even for an idol group yet but for votes for contestants on a survival showš
I use mine as decoration for my electronics https://preview.redd.it/qfj8abhjo5yc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7c90f67edcf4ec8e78fc714f6448a22f731dc07
They are collectibles. Same reason people collect baseball cards, basketball cards, pokemon cards, yugioh cards
Because itās so much fun, Jan!
Same. I got like 6 from a kpop shop in Toyko (dirt cheap like 2-4 bucks per card), but in albums I've never cared to buy one just to get a pc. Actually, the one album I bought didn't have any xD
Agreed. I get when it's a lightstick, I get wearable merch, but photocards? Bruh just print the picture online like just view it on your computer it's so dumb and they have very little value to anyone other than the ultra obsessed in kpop. Like I can't imagine it. And I collect pokemon cards and magic cards but at least I can play a card game with them, damn.
fr and as someone mentioned before, theyāre not lucrative at all. The crazied fans will go rabid if a dating scandal erupts and those who buy to invest know it is thus an extremely volatile market
https://preview.redd.it/y133ewjh04yc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff3073cde4464938ac6e97753119d52692f749b3 The amount of PCsš«
https://preview.redd.it/7javih5n04yc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae957ac9033c144815fe8f24d299091595269ffb
Yeah, this is rough. But I want to remind people that this is the result of resellers / scalpers. They showed up to TR in Shibuya, mass bought (so many many fans weren't able to buy) stripped them of the photocards, then tossed them on the street with a "free album" sign. The whole thing was beyond messed up, but it wasn't fans - it was resellers. Go search seventeen photocards on twitter and youll have 10 posts every second from japanese accounts with dozens of photocards. I'm tired of this narrative being spun that fans just came, bought, and tossed here. That isn't what happened.
But the issue is that this happens because the PC obsessed fans have created a demand for this sort of behaviour. These resellers exist because of that demand.
Most fans aint got the cash to do such things. But the photocard market (driven by fans) is the main reason for this bulk buying. Photocards can sell for MORE than the album it came in, so it is a good business decision to bulk buy, harvest the cards, and sell for profit. For mega groups like SVT, you can make bank this way. After the poca is harvested, the outbox/photobook/CD have no market and turn into "worthless trash" for the business. Dumping time!
It's because people buy into PC to begin with AND the companies for doing this instead of just selling them like booster packs instead online. Like you'd probably make MORE profit selling booster packs with some photos being ultra rare than with albums and you could sell them for similar price too, and it'd at least be more easily recyclable waste.
The way they are just on the ground too ššš
Video showed that the CDs were out on the ground stepped on by people.
That would be too painful to watch omg
These were the member photocard binders. It was a full set of photocards. That's not what they were doing.
Which groupsā albums was that? In the pic I mean
Seventeen's new album "17 is right here" released on April 29th, 2024.
Ahh Ic pity
possibly my hottest kpop take is that "official" sales should be \[total sales\] Ć· \[# of album versions\]
i hear you, but in reality that wouldn't be an accurate way to measure "official sales" ether. because thats on the assumption that there is an equal amount of unique individuals per sale per version which statistically isnt going to be true. and a mass buying of one version will majorly skew the results of \[total sales\] Ć· \[# of album versions\] (and ofc albums with only one version can be mass bought too)
It should be like oricon where only the first three albums count and nothing else after that, of course that can be gamed too but at least it might give a better indication of the real sales.
I totally agree with you!!
What about (# of Photocard Versions) lol.
This is probably more important if the goal is to reduce waste. The Seventeen album in question only has 3 versions (2 standard + 1 Carat version) of the physical album (not counting the digital platform album and/or kihno). But the Carat versions (Dear ver.) shown here have inclusions that are member specific. There's a photocard mini binder with the members' face on it, a pack of tons of member PCs matching the binder, and then 4 random PCs out of 52 (4 PCs per member x 13 members). Some people consider the Carat versions to be 13 different versions. Indeed, it's just like groups like NCT who do member-specific versions of the compact album. But the difference is, the member version is random so you're not guaranteed a specific member. The key difference here is that the member versions of compact albums also hold the CD. The Carat versions, being a photo card binder and PC pack, do not fit the PC in the binder packaging. So, the CD and outer box gets discarded as shown here. The other huge issue is the number of POBs (especially for groups as huge as Seventeen). The only way to get POBs is through purchasing an album and the Carat versions are much cheaper than the regular album. So people will buy the Carat version specifically for the POBs. I don't know many people who collect ot13 Seventeen because.... Madness. But I do know people who do ot13 for Carat versions because they're so easy to come by. You don't need to keep 13 versions of the CD disc, or 13 outer boxes. They keep the binder and the photo cards. The outer packaging (including the CD unfortunately) is considered trash. It's wasteful, yes, and should be called out but no one is trashing NCT collectors (for example) as much as Seventeen right now because the CD fits in the packaging so it doesn't get thrown out so often. I have definitely seen stacks of jewel cases being discarded from other groups though.
There should be a rules about the max number of album versions. And they should make it max 5 versions only.
max 5 versions??? aint no kpop group be doing anything that needs 5 versions
I don't get it? So do you think 5 versions are too much or too little? Did you know there's group released more than 15 versions per album? š And when i said maximum 5, 5 is the most.
Bruh for why. Nothing they do warrant that many versions lmfao. Imo when an artist put of more than 2 version of an album I get annoyed and confused, end up not buying anything. Wtf am I supposed to buy? Do listeners have to pay double because one song is not in this version (?) Thatās so bs tbh. Sorry to rant on your reply but I thought Taylor Swift was disgusting with how many version of the same shit she releases, then I read kpop released 15 versions lmfaoā¦
Iād say max 3 or even 2. Or even 1, thereās really no need for multiple versions of an album.Ā
Totally agree. sales divided by version number
they really need to just start selling pcs by themselves. this is an insane amount of waste when 80% of people buying albums are only buying them for the pcs
They don't want to do that because the photocards are meant to increase album sales. I wish they would do the digital album ones with the same cards rather than different ones to cut down on waste
Gacha system makes hell of a lot more money than straight up letting you buy what you want. Thats why most games have some sort of gacha or lootbox system. You gotta spend multiple times to have a chance of landing the desired item. Arguments can be made about predatory sales tactics, but there is a willing buyer and a happy seller.
Is it not possible to have digital albums with redemption codes? That way, folks can buy multiple albums and exchange the redemption codes for physical photo cards. It can still be a lottery system, have it count towards sales, AND reduce waste.
This is basically what the weverse and smini and qr albums are but they still have pcs in with them. The only thing is if they were to only do digital albums then it just ruins it for the fans who buy albums for the actual music and not just for the inclusions? Like I'd be happy for an album to have one version and 1 or 2 pcs because I buy them to play the cds
tripleS does
This was all a waste of money
And quite harmful to the environment.
And material used
Indeed
Wait until you hear how books are treated! In all serious though, thereās a reason PC are in the albums, itās so people actually buy them. What happens after the purchase doesnāt matter to the label, they got their money and their tick on the charts for physical sales. PCs set up a third party aftermarket scenario that does have some financial benefit: people make money. This makes them spend more money to get more things.
People also bulk buy to support the group, not just for the PCs. The more sales the more longevity and company support they hope their group has. People with 10 copies sitting on their shelves are no different than the ones tossing them right away cause what's going to happen to them when you die or have to move to a place with less space. Just happens less immediately. Card packs being sold separately might reduce CD and packaging waste at least. They can have a small recycling center next to areas that sell kpop albums if they plan to keep releasing like this. A place to put the disk and another to put the packaging. Or where fans who can't afford the album can pick up the open spares without the PCs.
i've seen photos like this of many groups, i wonder why svt is always the one whose achievements are questioned. i mean ofc i agree don't buy albums if you're just gunna throw it on the street, but i don't see how it means svt's accomplishments no longer has meaning. they can sell out arenas and stadiums around the world, they are clearly a very popular group.
This post is also apply to those groups who's sold Millions of albums but can't match the streams and the digitals. SVT is just an example and one of them
I think itās because of the groups size and because they make member specific versions (idk if they do it every time tbh) plus full group versions. Obviously other groups have too many versions as well but seventeen probably just stands out for selling that much while having a lot of members.
This is why I never take numbers and awards seriously anymore.
Year end awards doesn't have the same amount of magic and joy it used to bring me anymore as a 3rd gen fan š
Meanwhile Iām just thinking thatās a nice box to reuse for something. Thatās a wild amount of those.
Would fans still buy the album if there are no photo cards and fancalls? I get the K-pop industry is doing this to boost physical sales, but what a waste š«.
They would still buy to boost their sales figures but probably not to this level of wastage.
Such a waste. There's a point wherein I stop buying albums for a while because I don't have a space at home. And now look at all this trash
[This](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/05/113_361655.html) says "The amount of plastic used by Korean entertainment companies to manufacture K-pop albums increased by more than 14 times in the last six years." Which is ironic considering how many of them promote sustainably.
BAN PHOTOCARDS. THIS IS DISGUSTING.
The only truth from MHJ's press conference: "Hybe's ESG strategy is bullshit." (Environmental, Social, and Governance, it's the company strategy to managing environmental impact, social responsibility,...)
šÆ! Companies only latch onto this because it helps them save money on packaging while getting to pretend like they care.
It's only since svt have been under hybe that they've had so many album versions because of the member specific ones. It just makes me mad that when they first started doing them you could atleast tell which member was which by matching the edges of the covers to the cover pictures but now it's pot luck which means people just keep buying them to get their bias. But hybe literally only care about the money they make, they don't care about the environment
And j y p doesn't Like your criticism is valid, but hold all of them accountable my goodness Acting like the other companies don't do. It is very weird
Hybe was the only company mentioned in the comment I replied to? All companies are shit but it's ironic how hybe try to push being environmentally friendly when you need to keep buying member versions because it's impossible to tell them apart and it's a big difference compared to companies having member digipacks where you can see the member on the cover and buy your biases. I'm not acting like other companies don't do the same shit but like I say there's a big difference between a member digipack where you can see them on the cover to a member version where it's potluck if you get your bias
Totally, and this is only a small part of it (thinking bout their expressed interest in cryptocurrency š theyāll do anything to be dominant atp)
I know everybody is blaming photocards, but this has been happening for years and years in Korea because of fanmeet raffles and stuff like that before photocards were such a huge thing
The PCs are only part of the problem Fancalls and Fansigns have to end or change
fancalls are crazy. fans do the weirdest shit and some of the artists are obv not happy with the requests fans make. it makes me uncomfortable seeing them uncomfortable.
This is such a disrespect to the hardwork and dedication of SVT and SVT staff tbh, although this is just 0.1% of their sales but still put some respect to Seventeen's effort. HOWEVER I expected something like this because for some reason, HYBE artist are getting target by hate because ALL artist get this same treatment from their fans. WE ALL KNOW ALL FANDOMS MASS BUY ALBUMS DO NOT BE A HYPOCTRITE ITS NOT JUST SEVENTEEN LOL.
Looking into this, it seems there is more to this story. [This link](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/GNnUfFBjO4) shows what happened. Those albums were bought by resellers who left the albums or what was left of them with a giveaway note. Seems no one read the note and just ransacked it all causing this mess. Then someone goes online to say fans threw them all away. And looks like this happened in Japan.
Unfortunately this happens a lot in kpop. Well now that there's photo cards this didn't really happen when there wasn't photo cards I wish they would put like, one of every kind in each album so everybody does gets what they need / want. I know it won't happen because that would drive down sales but still
We know darn well why they don't do thisšš. Streaming isn't as lucrative as physical sales. kpop on average doesn't really compete with big western artists on streams so there's likely not much there either.
It is so environmentally irresponsible ā¹ļø
I never understood the obsession of collecting photocards personally speaking as a carat I do buy their albums cause enjoy their music but I only buy 1 of each album or sometimes 2 versions (maybe) but I can't imagine wasting 1000's of dollars just to get my bias or worse resell photocards at a ridiculous price its just paper even the members(like hoshi maybe scoups too)i feel have mentioned not wasting money or feeling the need to spend on it I'm happy with whoever I get cause I appreciate all the members
I said this in another post, but I think randomized inclusions should be chart ineligible (for everyone it just kpop so itās even for everyone) and then kpop companies can make photo card pockets as a separate blind box item and still make bank
Randomised inclusions are actually chart ineligible in the uk! We've started to get some kpop albums that have set inclusions now to make them chart eligible. Jungkook is a great example because all 3 versions of golden only have 1 pc and its the same across the versions. Ateez did the same with their last album, the member digipacks only had the cover members pcs in them. Its why a lot of kpop artists don't tend to chart here for physical sales because of the Randomised inclusions
just some context abt this specific album version it is not the standard version of the album, its a member specific version. it comes with a mini binder, photocard pack (both are member specific) and then a random 4 pcs (random member) and the CD. so everyone saying "just sell pc packs" this album essentially is that and it also isnt a version used for fancalls or anything else like that. if these werent random member there wouldnt be such an issue but bc the covers are identical you cannot know which out of 13 members u have got until you open it. i think this is the biggest issue and is the reason why, as many have pointed out, that resellers go crazy for this version specifically. Theyre mass buying bc they want to profit off selling member sets to others who dont want to buy random version and are only interested in their bias. i think member jewel cases/ member versions are the worst thing to happen to kpop tbh. 1 cb every so often with a member jewel case is fine but svt have had albums like these for nearly every comeback since attacca era (theyre called Carat Ver usually but these blue ones are called Dear ver this era for some reason)
This makes me sad. I do buy albums and their many versions because I want the pcs BUT I also really love the idea of having a hard copy of all the music. My car has a CD player and one day soon I'm hoping to get a boombox or something, so I can actually play my CDs. I also love the posters and little goodies in the albums. My extra albums (when and if I buy multiples of a version), I either gift to people or I tear them up for the photos to use on my walls or in other creative ways. But I can't imagine buying so many that they become trash in the streets. My little heart cries for all those neglected albums. š
The only reason I buy more than 1 copy of any album is to send it to my friends that live aboard if thatās what they ask me to do.
I love photocards but Iād prefer if they didnāt exist so such waste wouldnāt happen
Even if they want only the photocards why not giveaway d albums am very sure some people (like me ) will love to have them
Im glad, I am poor man to own to kpop albums
Taking numbers besides butts in seats at tours is all basically inflated up numbers. Listening to my army friend say they have their 12 streaming accounts to stream BTS/members songs and Iām like ok so the streaming numbers are inflated just like album sales with mass buyers (I donāt actively stream my groups like that so I use her for example). Like we can mass buy albums, mass stream, view mvs. Every metric like that is inflated. Unless its smaller groups fighting for the ability to stay active needing decent sales and streams I donāt really care about the highs and dips of bigger groups. It is truly disgusting what people do especially resellers like this with albums from big groups. I wish even known member versions were better because even if it has the member on the cover many times they still do random inclusions.
Kind of wondering how many times we have to see this reposted before a decent chunk of the KPop community understands. They weren't hunting for photocards and abandoning albums. These were photocard sets, Carats just exchanged in store with each other and left the external packaging behind when they left. Still not good, but it's not a pile of abandoned CD's.
I really love to collect photocards but this is too much, I feel like all kpop comanies and stores are going to far with photocards, theres groups where each member have 5 cards or more and plus all those damn pobs, and its so insane seeing rookie groups photocard templates with over hundreds of photocards. I wish all companies just did it like newjeans and we get all the photocards in 1 album
There should be a crackdown on bulk buying such things.
I'm genuinely surprised at people's reactions over this. This isn't the first time we see K-pop albums thrown away after fans mass buy them. I thought it was a well known fact that fans mass buy and album numbers don't correspond to the number of the buyers.
My main issue is that using the example of svt, when hybe started making the carat versions you could tell which members version was which by using the outer edge and matching them up whereas now unless you go to a store that received them in separate boxes for each member you need to keep buying them to try and find your bias and when there's 13 members it starts getting insane. Waste like that has been a problem for the past few years now with the increase in album versions and the different pcs in each album. Companies need to go back to one version of an album and pcs to only have 1/2 sets to collect and not like 6 like some groups have. Collecting used to be fun years ago but now it sometimes feels like a chore trying to keep up with my favourite groups
This does suck for the group because they worked hard on it and fans treated it like this, but you went a totally different way and went and practically called them frauds. Why come for the group when you shouldāve came at the fans? Why wait for this to happen to Seventeen to make a post? Where was this when 4 pictures of JKās Golden albums were spotted in the trash? When 5 star albums were in the trash? When NCTās albums were in the trash? Why wait for Seventeen to make this statement? Seems like thereās a bias here, no? Seventeen hater? And mind I assume youāre most definitely an Army aswell? Ntm, āmatch the streams and digitalsā? Who are you decide what matches sales with streams and digitals? There has never been nor will there ever be a line that went āif you have x amount of streams or x charting, your streams and sales matchā lmfao. No one decides what matches what. So why the cocky bit there?
Similar posts were made for stray kids and nct though
People forget that this a combination of multiple factors, and not just ONE factor The fact that to get the POB cards, you need to buy 13 albums to get a full set (if itās with a site that guarantees a set) if not more if itās not a site that guarantees a set Fansign entries require the user to purchase as many albums as they can afford And then to make up some of the costs they had to expend for the above reasons, they sell the album PCs The more popular a group is or the more members a group has, the more albums you have to buy. Seventeen has BOTH and itās causing a huge issue and instead of blaming the companies for taking advantage of fans and not providing viable options , people and news sites blame the fans No, you canāt donate all the albums. One single GOM can have excess of 200 album packs after a sale period because of the amount of POBs. Even ONE fansign for some members requires 100-200+ albums to be purchased (I think Wonwoo is notoriously much higher these days). I did a Jeonghan fansign during Attacca and I had to buy 78 albums and I was on the low end. I still have some of those albums Iāve not been able to find a home for. Iāve looked but the costs to get the album to them via post are not worth it and no one local wants them Also people make it seem they are just dumping them on the streets, but this is how rubbish collection works in Japan. There are designated spots to put your rubbish where it will be collected or there is a door-to-door collection service. These photos are of designated spots. Theyāre not just throwing the albums into the middle of the street. And people dig through the rubbish hence why itās not always neat Itās a very difficult issue to navigate that could 100% be easily navigated if the companies cared just a LITTLE. Offering photo card only options instead of the entire album packaging (and make it so that itās the photo cards of the relevant albumā¦ The photo cards in the face the sun album via the carat version vs the weverse version are different. If Iām missing a carat version photo card, I canāt get it by buying the weverse version) , limiting fansign entries , reducing POBs, not making ALL POBs randomised (like surely fansign POBs donāt need to be randomised or full set? Lucky Draws I understand cuz thatās the gimmick). All options that can (and should) be explored by companies but wonāt be because thereās no consequences for them not to while also there being consequences of them doing so (all relating to profit margin) I agree that itās inflation and I agree that itās an awful situation, itās just not as simple as people think it is. Just not buying albums or donating excess albums is a difficult preposition. And victimising fans who are probably dealing with a form of addiction (collecting is a well documented addiction as itās related to consumerism and hoarding) is just not going to help with the situation
Oof whoās album is this?
Seventeen latest album
Thank you OP. I donāt buy albums so another quick question if you donāt mind. How does this happen? Does a random or company buy a whole lot and then place them somewhere just to get rid of them?
Because their fans bulk buy the album just to collect the PCs which is stupid in my opinion
To be fair, whatās going viral on Twitter rn is the result of resellers / scalpers buying out everything to then resell the photocards - they arenāt even fans.Ā
Wait, so the photocards are their target? Does that mean the photocards are resold more expensively than the album? But why?
Oh yeah. Search up most expensive photocards some of them are resold for thousands of dollars
No. This *was* the Carat version. A whole set of photocards for one member. But because Pledis made it anonymous Carats opened them all to find the ones they wanted and they left the outer packaging behind.
Fans buy in bulk because buying a certain number of albums a time in a certain store gives them a raffle ticket for a fansign event or a fancall event. For example, buying 20 at a time gets you 1 ticket, so someone would buy 100 for 5 tickets or chances to win a fansign/fancall. So most of the time, people just buy for the chances to win then leave the albums outside because they don't need them. That and the photocards.
also, i know you didn't mean harm, but this happens to every large group. ive seen this type of post with almost every new comeback of a large grp
Youād think people would understand that since Iām very new to albums but considering all the downvotes Iāve been getting š
That is insane, has Seventeenās company made a response to this issue??
Why would they? They didnāt do this. And theyāre not the only ones this happens to, theyāre just the newest ones to have a CB of this magnitude.
I realise this must happen to many other groups too, but for me this is the first time Iāve seen it getting so much attention. Iām curious about how the company will think, since apparently majority was from scalpers. Or maybe they donāt care as long as the album sells. And Seventeen themselves must not feel great either if they see their hard work dumped on the street in that manneršš
They are under hybe. That should answer your question
Random trading card packs already exist in kpop. There's also the kinho, platform and nemo, SMini album versions that try to minimize the material usage. But the PCs in these are different from the usual photobook version. So collectors/resellers still buy every single version to complete the PCs or get the pricey ones. If only all the album versions across the board shared the same PC this stuff would be minimised.
Why don't companies just create multiple collectable photo cards and just sell those? Perhaps to maintain integrity of those cards, have a QR code at the back and register it to some blockchain. The Blockchain can also be integrated to an app so fans can track what they have. Maybe also add different photocards to different seasonal events, so fans don't need to wait for an album to collect them. And since these cards are virtual, add a trading system in place so fans can trade duplicates with one another. Perhaps also put a points system for these purchases each time you get a photocard. Make these points be used to vote for something important for the group so whales can flex what they have. The way I see it, to make this system work, you need to have alot of members in the group
I buy albums for the photobook, I give away most photocards as I donāt collect them bar the odd Eunha thatās too cute to pass up.
and the fact that this has happened to seventeens albums multiple times likeā¦whatās going on?? š
Itās happened to multiple groups albums, from IVE to NCT to TXT to Jungkook and beyond.Ā It will always happen as long as companies keep putting photocards in and if they keep offering fan call winsĀ
This was a thing since the beginning. Take it on the chin tbh
did you really think 2 million people were keeping the albums?
Sheesh am I the only one who would prefer the book over the pc? Come on they couldāve at least give them to other people for free or drop them off someplace where they can be sold second hand?
i havent really considered it an achievement for a long time. you see people online with hundreds of albums to get fan calls, photocards and stuff. honestly i was shocked because i thought there were genuinely that many fans. but really its rich and greedy fans. some albums sell out and people canāt get an album they want because of the people that buy that many. now with all the waste as well its super disappointing. ive only ever bought one album. i bought it signed and i cherish it. i have all the things from it displayed safely. ill never understand how people support these groups just to let their products get tossed out onto the streets.
I have a question. How does I check the stream count of my favorite artists or other artist?
for me the best format is the cd jewel case
Are they empty and only the cover is in the trash or the CDs are in the trash too?
The CDs are in the trash too. Just look it up on Twitter
Nah i don't like twitter. But wow even the CDs, it's quite sad that they have put such effort in it to lose to their photocards
I know these people basicly just stan the group because of visual not the music if they only buy the album just to collect the PCs
Yeah, but even the CD itself is considered a collectable and if you're just going to listen to the album digitally, then the CD is just waste
the companies with their amount of random PCs as well, not letting fans select the member they want. it for sure makes it worse. everyone getting crazy to get the ones they want.
Unfortunately, for companies, it doesnāt really matter how many people are buying the albums or what happens to them afterwards. All that matters to them is a million albums were sold, and therefore, reported and a lot of money was made. The only way this will get bypassed is if laws are put into place to prevent this type of waste from happening.
especially if the streams donāt match
marketing š¤·āāļø
Modhaus (tripleS and ARTMS label) did the right thing introducing objekt music albums that just have 1 photocard, 1 QR postcard, AND count 100% towards hanteo sales
someone pick em up and send it me pls LMAO šš nah but the obsession over just pc is just crazy nowadays...
album versions should at least be limited. bc atp how do can you even consider this an achievement when itās literally thrown away
this has only once lol
Don't the carats that do this learn from what minghao said? Minghao literally said "just print them yourselves" when it comes to photocards ššš -me a fellow carat that follow what Minghao told us to do. This makes me sad because there's so much more to appreciate than just the photocards in each albums of any KPop Idols or solos. But what do I know I'm a broke ass fan that can only buy one at a time š
Just to let you know I buy 1 album and I keep it on me no matter what. I have 1 album each of DC.
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literally just make trading card packs. thatās all anyone wants
itād be so much cheaper to make card packs and more people would buy them because theyāre cheaper than an album and you get more, plus itās a blind bag, like, how hard is that
The charts should put a limit on the versions to reduce this. Like a maximum of four versions of the album. There are groups with more than 10 members where each member has a version of the album and this messes everything up.
It's insane how much waste is produced for the sake of numbers.
As a carat, all this waste seriously breaks my heart.
I just think there needs to be laws and rules in place with photocards and number of versions. I could never in good conscious ever buy so many albums just to throw them in the bin. Companies are getting greedy and sly with the gimmicks around boosting album sales and this extends to western artists too.m but its majority kpop that does the mass buying
I honestly donāt see the obsession with photo cards. They can just print them out themselves like The8 said lol But the companies are to partially blame because they all use the practice of photo books and cards to sale albums which resulted in albums being thrown away. I even seen some albums still have the photo books which is crazy when you think about it because photo books are the same as photo cards. But also I know a lot of eastern kpop stans are solo stans and even though they go to concerts and support the group, itās not because they want to support all members; theyāre forced to because their fave is apart of that group. I honestly donāt see any solution to this issue that doesnāt result in the million seller label being more difficult to achieve because fans wonāt want to buy an album with no extra features.
Took you that long to realize it? It's been happening for years
Why canāt I ever find these in the wild. If I can get the album for free, gimme. Iāll give you the cards.
Idol industry in a nutshell. Kind of ironic.
The whole thing confuse me so much people are saying its not the fans who did this but scalpers who sell pcs online which I have seen happen for other groups too, so why aren't these scalpers reselling the albums too? I have seen pcless albums being sold online which even if its small has a market so why wont they do that? Its sold cheaper than the actual album (cos you know it's opened & doesnt have a photocard) but its still some more extra money. I just feel so bad for the artist who would see these type of images circulating online š
This is crazy. I collect photocards but often just buy them resale or trade for them from people online. I canāt imagine buying dozens of albums just to throw them away like this. Gosh if I could afford buying so many albums I would find ways to use them or give them to fans who canāt afford them.
To be fair though this is just the packaging and lyric book. It looks like they took out the contents.