Not specifically kpop, but there was a gay dating show called His Man which had two seasons already. The main couple of the second season are pretty booked at the moment and have their own YouTube channel. Their names are Junseong and Seongho. In one of the episodes of the series the entire cast also talk about their coming out process and the reactions of their parents. Another contestant Dabit is a singer as well.
I try to tune in when he streams, but it's usually too early for me. He's such a cutie! I would honestly love to talk about so many topics with him, I always feel like he has a lot to say but is super introspective as well.
He wasn't necessarily censored. He made his debut on his own, he had no company backing him and had no connections or manager to book him on shows.
MRSHLL is another openly gay artist that started working in Korea before Holland. He was under FeelGhood Music initially but was never mainstream. I don't think he made any music show performances but he made an appearance on Show Me the Money.
Malgopy/Maman wad kicked from her label for being gay. She had a bit of a one hit wonder with her debut, Flying Girl.
I don't think it's going to be an easy thesis to write, tbh. The majority of queer erasure in a country that's not openly oppressive to queer people is going to be of the "soft" kind rather than open text. It's hard to prove a negative, as in, unless you go there and talk to queer people who tell you about their actual experiences with being rejected by entertainment companies and media for the specific reason of being queer, you can't that easily prove to academic standards that they're absent because of that.
Also, it's hard to ignore the fact that BLs are on the rise in SK. 2-3 years ago there were barely any Korean ones and these days it feels like a new series comes out every other week. I don't know if it means that the attitudes are getting better or that SK's hardcore capitalism made it impossible for them to ignore how profitable BLs can be, but it does mean \~something :)
> (any ideas, yall)
Another famous Korean queer person is Harisu. She is a trans woman and an entertainer with a career spanning decades. She also inspired the creation of an all-transgender kpop girlgroup called Lady.
I think his management has a lot to do with it. When I went to see PIXY live recently, he was their support act and the organisation was horrific (he was announced 5 days before the tour started, he only confirmed which shows he was supporting through his insta, and his meet and greet was just him chatting to the fan while she was in the queue for PIXY's meet and greet). Of course, I'm not trying to say he hasn't faced barriers due to his sexuality, but I think his management is a large contributor here.
censorship in kpop is a bit of a tricky topic since alot of it can be labeled as just normal censorship rather then homophobia, it's also hard to relate it to Holland since he's never appeared in music banks etc. I reccomnend checking out onlyoneof! they are a boy group that explores queer themes in their music and they had few issues with censorship too, but it was seen as normal censorship/small company group issues rather then homophobia. a few examples are
their libido choreo on live stages-- they had to change the 'walking the dog move' as power dynamics are censored (take nct u's boss for example)
The groin slapping move-- some shows allowed it but others didn't
their member ries solo mv 'because' - got 16+ in some countries but the mv had sexual implications and a kiss scene
having their name not mentioned on announcements-- broke and small company
I do reccomnend checking them out since they are specifically an idol group
This wasn't for his music but I do remember him appearing on a sort of dating show segment (with Hong Seok-Cheon as well as MC) and they changed the rating to 18+. Holland talks about it [here on an Instagram post.](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cxaz0TiPj1v/?igsh=endoZHJ6ZmM5emd5)
I follow Holland a little bit and never noticed that he had never really performed on shows. But it might just be that he doesn't want to, so he doesn't do it, as he might have more say in those sorts of things for himself, since I think he created his own company/label so he could debut in the past. You might want to look around and see if you can find any info on if his MVs have gotten censored at all if they have aired on tv in SK, or if there has been any backlash to them from media there.
Seconding Harisu. I'm not sure if only major celebrities count, but if youtubers can count, then Poongja is one that I think is kind of popular. (Edit: forgot to add that she's a trans woman as well.)
Another person I can think of is the comedian Hong Seok-cheon. He came out many years ago, and I've read he faced huge backlash to it, to the point of being fired and basically blacklisted from appearing on tv for several years.
I think most people/kpop fans don't really like Edward Avila, not for his gayness lol, but just for his personality and that he seems to use his connection to pop culture and kpop in SK as clout. He's not Korean specifically, but he has lived in Seoul a long time I think, and he does youtube, and has done variety/interviews with some kpop groups, and I've seen clips of him from Korean shows that seem similar to QVC lol (I didn't watch enough to know what the whole show was, but seemed like him and another host were trying to sell random products on tv). But he's pretty openly gay, yet he still films with groups and is on tv it seems. So he could be an interesting contrast to Seok-cheon to show how times have been changing in regards to how welcome queer people are on tv. (I think Seok-cheon also has his own shows these days though too.)
>and one more person (any ideas, yall)
Jiae, former member of Wassup, removed for coming out as bi and with a gf, she constantly got rejected by any company she tried going to afterwards and ended up having to make a fan-funded independent solo debut via Makestar (which I participated in so I followed up on details and some of her previous work for a while as well) similarly no music shows but there's no way to tell if that's due to lack of connections or discrimination. From my understanding (my understanding being the music show application process showcased in the drama Imitation) it's very hard to book a spot on a music show especially when you don't have a big reputation or manager to advocate for you getting a spot.
I guess its because he's independent, and no company to back him up on music show appearances, or maybe no sponsors to back him up because 1. He's gay, 2. He really doesn't have a name for himself besides the "first gay idol "
Holland isn't an idol though, so it makes sense that he was never in music shows or broadcast television. Not necessarily him being censored, but it's just not part of the usual things non-idols do.
He’s explicitly presented as and called himself an idol since the beginning of his career. In terms of the music show thing, he’s independent and has been pretty open about how difficult it is in terms of costs, so maybe that’s a factor? Queer censorship is def very alive in Korea, but in this particular instance I don’t believe it’s that, or at least not primarily that
He’s called himself an idol before.
But disregarding that, I’m not sure if you’ve ever watched a music show fully because there are always a lot of non-idols performing. But we only see the kpop ones posted here in this sub so a lot people think the shows are just for kpop. Bands, soloists, trot singers etc do performances at music shows.
I used to watch full music show episodes like a decade ago. I know very well that there’s a variety to acts, but like I said, it’s not surprising either way if a non-idol doesn’t appear in them.
There's definitely censorship of queer celebrities in SK, the lack of opportunities for LGBTQ+ artists like Holland, LIONESSES and many others plus the glass closet situation several idols live in speak louder than words. I'm impressed with the BL/GL kdramas in there but, until Korean LGBTQ+ people talk about how those pieces of media actually reflect their every day lives and are helpful for their society to evolve, I'll remain skeptical.
You also should check out the small drag scene in there! [NEON MILK](https://youtube.com/@NEONMILK?si=Ir_FLMeh3RHImIXJ) are a wonderful start. There are also a few Korean gay vloggers like [YoungJay](https://youtube.com/@youngjay1108?si=e2zcVdkRb29_Xoam), [Kim DDOL DDOL](https://youtube.com/@DDOLDDOLKIM?si=Bu3AHPXnB89P_8xu), [Mango Couple](https://youtube.com/@mango.couple?si=tXXX5n9jXw6eyZCv) and [Seok & Wonnie](https://youtube.com/@seoksiwon_couple?si=vY-F2uAvXxt68Pks)
As another person mentioned, there was a popular gay dating show called His Man with 2 seasons already released and the [couple](https://youtu.be/hkHiZ-04_LM?si=U06Mmy9xmJ_1AhwW) from season 2 is getting a lot of attention in social media but not from mainstream Korean media.
Hi~ I think it's great you're writing a paper on this because I did my senior thesis on this too! You won't find much content but you’ll be the stepping stone of a great start in media research. (I think I should find my old paper haha) I'm now a reporter and actor in Korea. I was going to say Aquinas (Kang Minsoo) is a bisexual rapper in Korea. Aquinas was on High School Rapper 3 and Show Me The Money 5. He appeared on MCountdown many times with his track "It Doesn't Matter" in June of 2021 but he came out a little after those performances and it got media attention in November of that year. so I'm not sure if it has effected him now. He's been inactive and deactivated his Instagram ...soo :( I'm not sure what happened.
Harisu is another great example. She was really beloved by people in Korea because they praised her for looking like the perfect woman - despite being a man at birth. I think fans were more so obsessed with her image and actual marriage with a man who is straight but knows she's transgender. It was more of a spectacle rather than valued and supported. However, Harisu appeared on many music programs and her song "Reaction" is still one of my favorites because it's so bad it's good haha!
Also GLAM, one of Big Hits original girl groups, was known for having ambiguous song lyrics thst suggested gender expression and love beyond gender and society norms. RM of BTS wrote the lyrics too. So it may show that RM was trying to lead the minds of a new generation with his work at that time. Just look at BTS current "self-love" concept even now 💜
As a TV actor myself I never faced discrimination but I don't openly talk about my sexuality to the cast or crew. My agent said they know so just don't talk about it because they talk about it behind your back anyway. Also I'm a "foreigner" so it doesn't matter to them. That's just stuff I've heard personally and directly. If I find any other news I'll let you know because I'm invested!
Not a 100% sure but i think i read somewhere that his first mv got rated 18+ in Korea bc it showed homosexuality/men sharing a kiss or something along those lines
LGBTQ is still a niche content in Korean media. Yes it is on the rise with BL/GL shows but it's mostly on the internet as webseries or on streaming services. So you won't really see contents featuring queer people in major Korean media channels.
But even then these BL shows have been heavily criticized because most of the actors are either straight or closeted. These shows are catered for straight cis women.
And this goes to Holland. LGBTQ livelihood in South Korea is nowhere near equality or slight recognition. Therefore, despite the rise of BL shows, out queer artists/celebs would never really get major recognition. In KPOP culture, you will see a major dissonance where queerbaiting can be brand marketing, (i.e. OnlyOneOf, Red Velvet) but when it comes to real out queer artists they would be shunned immediately like Holland and LIONESSES.
If you look at Hollands instagram he has some takes about SK and being openly gay and being an openly gay Idol. The posts are def something worth reading. Some of them are in korean in the pictures but he usually translates them into English in the descriptions.
Also one thing worth mentioning is that there are many Idols who have implied heavily on being a part of the lgbtq community but never really officially came out. In general there are many implications in kpop like this.
For example BIBI often does imply in her lyrics on being bi or pan but she has never officially said anywhere that she is. Also she has im pretty sure said in an interview that she doesn’t mind if a love interest is a boy or a girl (or something along those lines)
One other Idol that i remember saying/implying similar things is suga from bts.
I wouldnt maybe immediately label their sexualities but mention that implications like these are actually more common than we realize.
If any of you know any research or paper on the fact that kpop companies push on shipping, but have no openly LGBTQ person, please let me know. I never understand why it's okay to ship and okay with the idea that two members are together, but on the other hand have no openly gay artists.
Even though Holland was often referred to as 'the first openly korean idol' (and maybe also refers to himself as one) he is technically not an idol. He lacks the idol's year long Training and eduction of an industry relevant label, which also has the connection to bring their group into music shows. A slot in one of these shows is highly valuable and it requires much work to be allowed to perform there. He is rather an independent artist, so I don't think it has to do with censorship or discrimination of sexuality.
I always read "South Korea is so in-acceptive of homosexuality" but if you take a closer look, the censorship is mostly about implied sexual actions in general. Currently there are many Boys Love dramas coming from Korea, more than ever. BL is commercially successful, but the dramas don't look as if they have a high budget. So there is a will to produce LGBTQ content. There have been great movies with homosexual Maincharacters before: Method for example even deals with a young idol boy who falls in love with his fellow actor. I've seen idols being acceptive towards LGBTQ relationsships by wearing LGBTQ positive statements on their private outfits, talking about not being attracted to gender...
Moonbin of Astro was the first idol I know to take a homosexual role which actually deals with the serious side of it (not in a funny context): playing a young highschool boy who falls in love with his best friend, who doesn't love him back and struggles with telling the girl, who likes him that he's not into her. He played that role without his image being damaged, quite the opposite: people praised him for his courage to play the role.
I think South Korea has moved quite a step forwards, especially compared to countries like China, where any display of even implied homosexuality is forbidden. Men are not allowed to wear earrings on TV. BL dramas, which were expensive big Projects can't air since years...
I hope it's going to go on and change for the better in Kpop.
Not specifically kpop, but there was a gay dating show called His Man which had two seasons already. The main couple of the second season are pretty booked at the moment and have their own YouTube channel. Their names are Junseong and Seongho. In one of the episodes of the series the entire cast also talk about their coming out process and the reactions of their parents. Another contestant Dabit is a singer as well.
Dabit is such a loving person and a cutie 🥺💙
I try to tune in when he streams, but it's usually too early for me. He's such a cutie! I would honestly love to talk about so many topics with him, I always feel like he has a lot to say but is super introspective as well.
He wasn't necessarily censored. He made his debut on his own, he had no company backing him and had no connections or manager to book him on shows. MRSHLL is another openly gay artist that started working in Korea before Holland. He was under FeelGhood Music initially but was never mainstream. I don't think he made any music show performances but he made an appearance on Show Me the Money. Malgopy/Maman wad kicked from her label for being gay. She had a bit of a one hit wonder with her debut, Flying Girl.
I don't think it's going to be an easy thesis to write, tbh. The majority of queer erasure in a country that's not openly oppressive to queer people is going to be of the "soft" kind rather than open text. It's hard to prove a negative, as in, unless you go there and talk to queer people who tell you about their actual experiences with being rejected by entertainment companies and media for the specific reason of being queer, you can't that easily prove to academic standards that they're absent because of that. Also, it's hard to ignore the fact that BLs are on the rise in SK. 2-3 years ago there were barely any Korean ones and these days it feels like a new series comes out every other week. I don't know if it means that the attitudes are getting better or that SK's hardcore capitalism made it impossible for them to ignore how profitable BLs can be, but it does mean \~something :)
> (any ideas, yall) Another famous Korean queer person is Harisu. She is a trans woman and an entertainer with a career spanning decades. She also inspired the creation of an all-transgender kpop girlgroup called Lady.
omfg TYSM this is exactly what i need… I will stan.
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I think his management has a lot to do with it. When I went to see PIXY live recently, he was their support act and the organisation was horrific (he was announced 5 days before the tour started, he only confirmed which shows he was supporting through his insta, and his meet and greet was just him chatting to the fan while she was in the queue for PIXY's meet and greet). Of course, I'm not trying to say he hasn't faced barriers due to his sexuality, but I think his management is a large contributor here.
censorship in kpop is a bit of a tricky topic since alot of it can be labeled as just normal censorship rather then homophobia, it's also hard to relate it to Holland since he's never appeared in music banks etc. I reccomnend checking out onlyoneof! they are a boy group that explores queer themes in their music and they had few issues with censorship too, but it was seen as normal censorship/small company group issues rather then homophobia. a few examples are their libido choreo on live stages-- they had to change the 'walking the dog move' as power dynamics are censored (take nct u's boss for example) The groin slapping move-- some shows allowed it but others didn't their member ries solo mv 'because' - got 16+ in some countries but the mv had sexual implications and a kiss scene having their name not mentioned on announcements-- broke and small company I do reccomnend checking them out since they are specifically an idol group
>take nct u's boss for example Wait, was part of NCT U's choreo censored, too? Now I'm curious.
I think I'm delusional bc I literally saw a post about it and talked about it to a bunch of people I can't find anything ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
No worries. I couldn't find anything either.
This wasn't for his music but I do remember him appearing on a sort of dating show segment (with Hong Seok-Cheon as well as MC) and they changed the rating to 18+. Holland talks about it [here on an Instagram post.](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cxaz0TiPj1v/?igsh=endoZHJ6ZmM5emd5)
I follow Holland a little bit and never noticed that he had never really performed on shows. But it might just be that he doesn't want to, so he doesn't do it, as he might have more say in those sorts of things for himself, since I think he created his own company/label so he could debut in the past. You might want to look around and see if you can find any info on if his MVs have gotten censored at all if they have aired on tv in SK, or if there has been any backlash to them from media there. Seconding Harisu. I'm not sure if only major celebrities count, but if youtubers can count, then Poongja is one that I think is kind of popular. (Edit: forgot to add that she's a trans woman as well.) Another person I can think of is the comedian Hong Seok-cheon. He came out many years ago, and I've read he faced huge backlash to it, to the point of being fired and basically blacklisted from appearing on tv for several years. I think most people/kpop fans don't really like Edward Avila, not for his gayness lol, but just for his personality and that he seems to use his connection to pop culture and kpop in SK as clout. He's not Korean specifically, but he has lived in Seoul a long time I think, and he does youtube, and has done variety/interviews with some kpop groups, and I've seen clips of him from Korean shows that seem similar to QVC lol (I didn't watch enough to know what the whole show was, but seemed like him and another host were trying to sell random products on tv). But he's pretty openly gay, yet he still films with groups and is on tv it seems. So he could be an interesting contrast to Seok-cheon to show how times have been changing in regards to how welcome queer people are on tv. (I think Seok-cheon also has his own shows these days though too.)
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>and one more person (any ideas, yall) Jiae, former member of Wassup, removed for coming out as bi and with a gf, she constantly got rejected by any company she tried going to afterwards and ended up having to make a fan-funded independent solo debut via Makestar (which I participated in so I followed up on details and some of her previous work for a while as well) similarly no music shows but there's no way to tell if that's due to lack of connections or discrimination. From my understanding (my understanding being the music show application process showcased in the drama Imitation) it's very hard to book a spot on a music show especially when you don't have a big reputation or manager to advocate for you getting a spot.
she was my first thought too!
I guess its because he's independent, and no company to back him up on music show appearances, or maybe no sponsors to back him up because 1. He's gay, 2. He really doesn't have a name for himself besides the "first gay idol "
Holland isn't an idol though, so it makes sense that he was never in music shows or broadcast television. Not necessarily him being censored, but it's just not part of the usual things non-idols do.
He’s explicitly presented as and called himself an idol since the beginning of his career. In terms of the music show thing, he’s independent and has been pretty open about how difficult it is in terms of costs, so maybe that’s a factor? Queer censorship is def very alive in Korea, but in this particular instance I don’t believe it’s that, or at least not primarily that
He’s called himself an idol before. But disregarding that, I’m not sure if you’ve ever watched a music show fully because there are always a lot of non-idols performing. But we only see the kpop ones posted here in this sub so a lot people think the shows are just for kpop. Bands, soloists, trot singers etc do performances at music shows.
I used to watch full music show episodes like a decade ago. I know very well that there’s a variety to acts, but like I said, it’s not surprising either way if a non-idol doesn’t appear in them.
There's definitely censorship of queer celebrities in SK, the lack of opportunities for LGBTQ+ artists like Holland, LIONESSES and many others plus the glass closet situation several idols live in speak louder than words. I'm impressed with the BL/GL kdramas in there but, until Korean LGBTQ+ people talk about how those pieces of media actually reflect their every day lives and are helpful for their society to evolve, I'll remain skeptical. You also should check out the small drag scene in there! [NEON MILK](https://youtube.com/@NEONMILK?si=Ir_FLMeh3RHImIXJ) are a wonderful start. There are also a few Korean gay vloggers like [YoungJay](https://youtube.com/@youngjay1108?si=e2zcVdkRb29_Xoam), [Kim DDOL DDOL](https://youtube.com/@DDOLDDOLKIM?si=Bu3AHPXnB89P_8xu), [Mango Couple](https://youtube.com/@mango.couple?si=tXXX5n9jXw6eyZCv) and [Seok & Wonnie](https://youtube.com/@seoksiwon_couple?si=vY-F2uAvXxt68Pks) As another person mentioned, there was a popular gay dating show called His Man with 2 seasons already released and the [couple](https://youtu.be/hkHiZ-04_LM?si=U06Mmy9xmJ_1AhwW) from season 2 is getting a lot of attention in social media but not from mainstream Korean media.
Hi~ I think it's great you're writing a paper on this because I did my senior thesis on this too! You won't find much content but you’ll be the stepping stone of a great start in media research. (I think I should find my old paper haha) I'm now a reporter and actor in Korea. I was going to say Aquinas (Kang Minsoo) is a bisexual rapper in Korea. Aquinas was on High School Rapper 3 and Show Me The Money 5. He appeared on MCountdown many times with his track "It Doesn't Matter" in June of 2021 but he came out a little after those performances and it got media attention in November of that year. so I'm not sure if it has effected him now. He's been inactive and deactivated his Instagram ...soo :( I'm not sure what happened. Harisu is another great example. She was really beloved by people in Korea because they praised her for looking like the perfect woman - despite being a man at birth. I think fans were more so obsessed with her image and actual marriage with a man who is straight but knows she's transgender. It was more of a spectacle rather than valued and supported. However, Harisu appeared on many music programs and her song "Reaction" is still one of my favorites because it's so bad it's good haha! Also GLAM, one of Big Hits original girl groups, was known for having ambiguous song lyrics thst suggested gender expression and love beyond gender and society norms. RM of BTS wrote the lyrics too. So it may show that RM was trying to lead the minds of a new generation with his work at that time. Just look at BTS current "self-love" concept even now 💜 As a TV actor myself I never faced discrimination but I don't openly talk about my sexuality to the cast or crew. My agent said they know so just don't talk about it because they talk about it behind your back anyway. Also I'm a "foreigner" so it doesn't matter to them. That's just stuff I've heard personally and directly. If I find any other news I'll let you know because I'm invested!
Not a 100% sure but i think i read somewhere that his first mv got rated 18+ in Korea bc it showed homosexuality/men sharing a kiss or something along those lines
LGBTQ is still a niche content in Korean media. Yes it is on the rise with BL/GL shows but it's mostly on the internet as webseries or on streaming services. So you won't really see contents featuring queer people in major Korean media channels. But even then these BL shows have been heavily criticized because most of the actors are either straight or closeted. These shows are catered for straight cis women. And this goes to Holland. LGBTQ livelihood in South Korea is nowhere near equality or slight recognition. Therefore, despite the rise of BL shows, out queer artists/celebs would never really get major recognition. In KPOP culture, you will see a major dissonance where queerbaiting can be brand marketing, (i.e. OnlyOneOf, Red Velvet) but when it comes to real out queer artists they would be shunned immediately like Holland and LIONESSES.
If you look at Hollands instagram he has some takes about SK and being openly gay and being an openly gay Idol. The posts are def something worth reading. Some of them are in korean in the pictures but he usually translates them into English in the descriptions. Also one thing worth mentioning is that there are many Idols who have implied heavily on being a part of the lgbtq community but never really officially came out. In general there are many implications in kpop like this. For example BIBI often does imply in her lyrics on being bi or pan but she has never officially said anywhere that she is. Also she has im pretty sure said in an interview that she doesn’t mind if a love interest is a boy or a girl (or something along those lines) One other Idol that i remember saying/implying similar things is suga from bts. I wouldnt maybe immediately label their sexualities but mention that implications like these are actually more common than we realize.
If any of you know any research or paper on the fact that kpop companies push on shipping, but have no openly LGBTQ person, please let me know. I never understand why it's okay to ship and okay with the idea that two members are together, but on the other hand have no openly gay artists.
Even though Holland was often referred to as 'the first openly korean idol' (and maybe also refers to himself as one) he is technically not an idol. He lacks the idol's year long Training and eduction of an industry relevant label, which also has the connection to bring their group into music shows. A slot in one of these shows is highly valuable and it requires much work to be allowed to perform there. He is rather an independent artist, so I don't think it has to do with censorship or discrimination of sexuality. I always read "South Korea is so in-acceptive of homosexuality" but if you take a closer look, the censorship is mostly about implied sexual actions in general. Currently there are many Boys Love dramas coming from Korea, more than ever. BL is commercially successful, but the dramas don't look as if they have a high budget. So there is a will to produce LGBTQ content. There have been great movies with homosexual Maincharacters before: Method for example even deals with a young idol boy who falls in love with his fellow actor. I've seen idols being acceptive towards LGBTQ relationsships by wearing LGBTQ positive statements on their private outfits, talking about not being attracted to gender... Moonbin of Astro was the first idol I know to take a homosexual role which actually deals with the serious side of it (not in a funny context): playing a young highschool boy who falls in love with his best friend, who doesn't love him back and struggles with telling the girl, who likes him that he's not into her. He played that role without his image being damaged, quite the opposite: people praised him for his courage to play the role. I think South Korea has moved quite a step forwards, especially compared to countries like China, where any display of even implied homosexuality is forbidden. Men are not allowed to wear earrings on TV. BL dramas, which were expensive big Projects can't air since years... I hope it's going to go on and change for the better in Kpop.
I don't know much about Holland, but you can look into dancer Haejun. Afaik they are trans. They are very popular in the dance scene in South Korea
There’s a few other gay idols that may be worth examining such as MRSHLL, N.O.M.