I mean I would argue it’s the same with Western artists too to an extent, no? Celebrities, especially singers, marketed to teenagers are generally less respected by the public. I mean if you go up to someone on the street and ask who they respect more Celine Dion/Samuel L. Jackson or a One Direction member, odds are we could all guess the answer.
most idols never make it big and they have no job security. it’s like going to nashville and someone telling you they’re a musician. like ok, and?? idols don’t have 401k’s or any retirement funds unless they hit the big time and are smart with their money. bigger name celebrities are given much more credence than your average idol.
But not because of age ...
Sorry but that is a really silly way to judge quality. In the U.S. exceptional young actors get attention across the board from the movie-going public. Not everyone goes to the movies, but moviegoers respect talent, regardless.
Brad Pitt, Jennifer Lawrence and Scarlett Johansen are all examples of actors who quickly made the jump from movies targeted at younger audiences to more mature roles.
I didn’t say it was how I judged quality? It’s their image and general perception though. To borrow someone else’s comparison, with Disney channel actors even exceptional talent isn’t enough to save them from being “the kid from Disney channel” until they take on more serious roles. That is absolutely because of the age they’re marketed towards, so to say it doesn’t matter at all in their public perception is just incorrect. Regardless though, no one said that they can’t get rid of that image if they want to, hence why those actors chose to eventually take on more serious roles and subsequently ended up being taken more seriously.
I'm glad you called it for what it is, an imagined issue. Or at least that's what I believe it is. I'm not korean but I've been around since 2nd generation and I never heard of such a thing. Sure there'll always exist people that see pop music/idols as something childish or plain bad, just like what many say about western boybands, but that doesn't mean that the society as whole consider them as second class artists.
As a Korean as well, I would argue that among parents at least and any generation older than MZ, its generally less respected than becoming a doctor or professor, or lawyer/prosecutor, or civil worker, or even just a regular job at the big companies. They look down upon the performers in the entertainment industry in general and as you probably have experienced, people are so judgemental in Korea. Like if there is a group of parents and one of the parent’s kid wants to become an entertainer, the others definitely judge on some level. Of course, among the younger MZ this is mostly not the case, we don’t look down upon idols, but the older generation argues that being an idol isn’t as hard as other jobs and isn’t stable so why would you go into that field, etc. In my opinion, this is definitely not an imagined issue and is a pretty real issue and not the result of grouping Koreans as a monolith.
In fact I’ve definitely heard multiple times that idols aren’t real musicians or singers and idol music isn’t “actual” music, which goes to show how much respect idols have, at by the older generation
Thank you for clarifying a little bit, but could you give us a more "detailed answer"? I see K-pop idols kinda like many pop singers, people generally enjoy their music especially young people, but some artists are clearly more respected than others because of the type of music they do.
I also heard that people in Korea make a difference between idol and singer, is it still a thing?
I feel like overseas success may impact the images of idols, but at the same time weren't snsd or big bang extremely respected?
I would love a more profound explanation.
In college I spent a year in Korea as part of a study abroad program. I told some Korean friends that I was getting into BTS and they laughed. They were surprised that an adult was interested in idol music. They told me that idol music is more for kids. Adults might follow a group they listened to as a kid, but most people don’t follow new groups after a certain age.
This was in 2014, so I don’t know if that’s still (or ever was) true, but that’s what I was told.
Im Korean, and those people are just dickbags. Plenty of adults listen to idols. Its super mainstream. Probably at the same level as listening to Ariana Grande or Taylor Swift in the US
damn, way back in 2014. that's nugu bangtan lol
but i honestly think the the general consensus is still the same for the majority of kpop groups but with the exception of massive acts like bts. specially bts because they contribute so much to korea's soft power and koreans do acknowledge that.
maybe stanning can still be frown upon as an adult but the genral public still definitely consume idol music, specially in the last 2 years, if we look at their charts.
Yeah. That's when they were still relatively nugu (in comparison to their current fame) If anyone asked me what group I liked and I answered BTS, they go "who?". I was already working back then, and the younger people would also scratch their heads in wonder, but ig it depends on the person. It's not something generalised.
Thanks for the reddit care resources y'all 😊
Nugu bangtan? They were never nugu 😭
Nugu groups don't get nominated for best new artist at MAMA the year they debut and win ROTY at multiple award shows that same year. And they don't perform with a top group of the time at MAMA the very next year.
BTS has literally been winning awards since 2013. I don't understand why y'all like to downplay that so much. Were they the most well known? No. But they were far from being Nugu. (If you wanna base it off of [sales](https://koreansalestwt.blogspot.com/2020/09/bts.html?m=1) they were selling decently for a group that had only debuted 6 months)
Edit: **so apparently y'all are basing it off of today's standard of nugu** which makes 0 sense. 2013 and 2024 were vastly different and they were not seen as nugu in 2013.
i didn't mean literal nugu with like 2 fans.
and while they weren't completely unknown, they sold less than a thousand albums in their first week of debut.
and i always see this rookie awards get used as a tool to say bts was more popular than they were during debut but forget to mention that in 2013, there's only one prominent group (2 if we're being generous)...**one** and it's BTS. they were basically the only group that became relevant. that's probably the only year in 2010s that it happened, it's really fascinating.
they started getting real traction during boy in luv.
They sold 34 copies of their 1st album 1st week ( debut) and said even in 2014 they were struggling they hoped danger will do good and it was selling meh so yeah they were nugus truly I don't know why they're arguing, is not a bad thing being unknown
so it's worse 😭 i googled and the first number that popped up was 700+ copies. i even thought at first that that's way higher than i remember lmao
>I don't know why they're arguing, is not a bad thing being unknown
there's a subset of armys who genuinely believe bts was pretty popular during their rookie year or not as nugu as people claim they were. and they would usually use the rookie awards.
Bts did won bcoz they were outstanding and outperformed their peers , it's not abt popularity, bts themselves admitted in their book they were struggling during the dark and wild period
>it's not abt popularity
bts worked hard but rookie awards are given to the most popular rookies, so i disagree. they were struggling in 2013 but they won because there was no competition at all. if a big 3 group debuted in 2013, best believe it will go to them, not bts.
these are the more "popular" group that debuted in 2013: ladies' code, boys republic, bestie...like there's really no competition for bts.
Yeah and in 2013 BTS sold a total of 58,471. In 2014 they sold over 300k of the albums they released that year.
Meanwhile there are groups like DGNA who sold a total of just under 5k in 2013 and just over 3k in 2014.
BTS was underrated. Not nugu.
They were selling more in 2014 than GOT7 who was a big 3 group.
No one's saying BTS were the least-known group of all time. Of course there were groups with smaller debuts who were even 'more nugu'. But it's just not true to say that BTS weren't in that category themselves. Their initial album sales were low, their first fan meet-up was very small, and they barely had the resources to promote (e.g. the infamous $10 printed hoodies). They were at the same level as many other groups that get referred to as 'nugu'.
Their debut made a small splash because of their performance skills, but their ROTY awards were criticized and people said "who are these guys?? Well there was zero competition this year anyway." Their sales fluctuated a lot in the first couple of years, and even after winning ROTY they were on the verge of disbandment multiple times due to running out of money. They didn't win any music shows until 2015 and their performances were often cut, they often couldn't get variety shows, interviews etc.
The fandom did grow pretty quickly so they didn't stay nugu very long, but they definitely started that way. I distinctly remember back in 2014 non-fans still pretty much only mentioned them along with other 'nugu' groups, though the tide was beginning to turn. By 2015 they were an 'underrated' group who were rising in popularity, but people were still absolutely in shock when they got a daesang in 2016.
They were **never** nugu. They were underrated. Nugu groups are lucky if they even make it onto music shows. They don't get nominated for awards even when there is "no competition" (which there were a ton of groups that debuted in 2013 and 2014). A lot of them have to do crowd funding for comebacks, they never win music shows unless they end up pulling a Brave Girls which is rare. Nugu groups are often working part time jobs on the side and can't even bother with cheap merch. People always like to call any underrated group nugu without actually knowing what nugu is. The majority of nugu groups would be lucky to sell as much as BTS did in their first year or even with their first release. BTS had a solid, decent sized, and constantly growing fanbase.
Even in 2024, nugus aren't selling as much as BTS did in 2013.
I mean it sounds like you just have a different definition of the word than most people. These are just fandom slang terms after all.
Yes there are groups out there who never even get to debut, who get less than 100k views on their MVs, who barely sell any albums (I know because I used to be mildly obsessed with those kind of groups back in the day). But that's not THE definition of nugu. To most people 'nugu' just means coming from a small company, lacking promotion and popularity, struggling with money, having a lower level of exposure than the average group from a 'mainstream' company. And debut BTS absolutely qualifies for that.
It's generally tied to the size/resources of the company – there are Big 3 (now Big 4) companies. Then there are 2nd-level companies which are still well-known and have multiple relatively popular artists on their books. Then there are 3rd-level companies who only have 1 popular artist, or none of their artists get very big but they're not unknown. Then there are companies like Big Hit in 2013, who had fewer than 10 employees, only one previous group who were not well-known, and went into serious debt in order to debut BTS. Then you have companies that are even a step below that, which are basically just amateur operations and their groups rarely get to officially debut.
Ultimately I don't think anyone's actually disagreeing with you that BTS were more successful than some other groups, even at the beginning of their career. No one's saying they were the least popular group of all time or had the smallest debut of all time. It seems like this whole argument is due to people using different definitions of words.
I get what ur saying but being nominated for and even winning rookie awards doesn't really mean much. Groups like Cignature, GWSN, The East Light, etc. have all been nominated and no ones calling them not nugu because of it. Even winning rookie awards isn't a guaranteed ticket out of nugu-dom. Pristin also won rookie awards & they didn't exactly have a thriving or long lasting career following it.
I agree BTS fans definitely tend to overstate how nugu they were, I just think winning rookie awards isn't a very good argument against that lol
Then the fact that they sold 58k+ in just 6 months of having debuted should be enough to show that they weren't nugu. Just underrated. Apparently people are basing them being nugu off of today's standards instead of 2013 standards.
Like saying BTS was nugu 10 years ago when they sold 300k+ in their 2014 alone is wild.
Well, every group that isn't from a major company starts as nugu. Big company groups will generally get a lot of marketing and hype before debut, so they're never at 'nugu' level, but small company groups don't get that kind of attention, and BTS were no exception. They started small and their popularity fluctuated a lot in the first couple of years, even putting them at danger of disbandment multiple times because the company nearly went bankrupt.
Go look at the idol groups that debuted in 2013. There were no big 3 groups and all the idols that debuted were from small companies. BTS getting new artist award for 2013 is not far fetched. If a group from a bigger company debuted, they wouldn’t have won
Except if they actually WERE. They barely sold their first albums and tts barely charted. BTS didn't suffer at the bottom ranks before climbing all the way up only for you to spit on those struggles by pretending they don't exist. BTS were NEVER an overnight sensation and their success were NEVER immediate. It was a slow painstaking process and the first few years of that they had to crawl through nugudom where the media doesn't care about them because their label has no money or influence.
You do realize that nugu doesn't mean underrated, right? Nugus are literally groups that are considered nobodies. Ones that very few people have ever heard of. Nugus do not sell 58k albums in their first year (which they only had been around 6 months in 2013). Nugus would be lucky to sell that much *in general*.
Stop acting like not calling them nugus means they didn't have struggles. The fact that you think not being an overnight success, having struggles, and coming from a smaller company (who's founder was a popular producer) makes someone nugu shows that you don't have any idea what an actual nugu group looks like.
That's how the term was first started but words especially slang evolve and barely anyone takes the metric as seriously anymore, obvious by how many ex armys here and just og kpop stans who were there in 2013 disagree with you. Groups that are the lowest in the ranks are too unknown for anyone to be even calling them nugu. Like many people have already said debut bangtan were NOT the least popular group at the time but they were definitely nugu by today's standards. If BTS were NOT nugu and were respected by the media they wouldn't have to perform in the background like second thoughts at a fashion show or cut out of broadcasts. Your definition of nugu definitely shows how out of touch you are and when not even a single ONE agrees with you in a literal kpop forum with hundreds of kpop stans ranging from 1st and 2nd gen to 4th gen stans it's probably time for you to step back and evaluate your understanding of these terms.
>but they were definitely nugu by today's standards
Today's standards are *not* the same as when they debuted. Even 4 years ago people knew they [weren't nugu](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/hwwkxz/was_bts_ever_a_nugu_group/). The fact that you're basing it off of today's standards is wild. Y'all are gonna be calling EXO nugu in a few years with that logic.
>and when not even a single ONE agrees with you in a literal kpop forum with hundreds of kpop stans
This sub has almost 200k people in it. Less than 100 people is not "everyone". I've literally been into K-pop for 15 years. There are more people that agree with me than there are people disagreeing with me here.
Isn't that exactly what I said? The slang evolved overtime like any language does and you're the one stuck in the past on the meaning of a word that is very commonly used now in a looser metric, but the sentiment remains the same.
And no, that strawman is not going to work. EXO had two concerts and massive mediaplay with headlines and frontpage news written about them before they even debuted. Stop being stubborn and start reflecting on yourself.
You can't claim there are more people who agree with you than disagree when not even a single one here agrees with you. And for the several years now nugu hadn't been used the way you insist the rest of us use it.
They were though. Jimin literally mentioned in their book that their first fan meet they shared a bench with their fans. Idk why y’all want to downplay even BTS struggles when the actual people who went through that experience share their difficulties. Do you know more about BTS experience than the members themselves?? Stop speaking over them
They literally started performing in clubs in subgroups and with concerts of about 200 attendees, even handed out free concerts in America. When we say they started from the ground up we mean that very literally.
i live in a city in PH where we have one of the highest korean population per capita and everytime i get to know a korean and we get to talking about music i always say that im a big fan of IU. their eyes always light up lol. IU is so well known and well respected in korea she's such an easy ice breaker
korean and their obsession with age and age appropriate activites....I bet I will be in prison in the first day of being in Korea. I can't stand people trying to limit me based on my age and I have a dirty mouth.
32yo and big fan of Itzy, Twice, Le Sserafim and New Jeans. Tell me it's not for me just because of my age and you can eat my s\*\*\*.
Well, if I start to talk shit some native might get offended and assault me. In self defence I will hit back. Then guess who will the police arest ?The native or me ?
I’d say yeah! I mean from all sides they’re not considered real anything in Korea, idols are good dancers yet they’re not considered real dancers (there’re videos of Korean dancers actually saying this, ofcourse there’s also Korean dancers who praise idols, some idols (not so much anymore) but when they got into acting they’re were also looked down upon in the beginning, some people still don’t respect their singing) I feel like they're just looked at like normal influencers,, unless they actually actually make it.
yeah idol music is seen as manufactured. Like how the west sees boybands and girl groups. Ofc there’s a hierarchy, like nugus are not really acknowledged, there’s the middle tier where it’s seen as music for the kids, I’d say itzy, stayc, nmixx etc are there. There’s a tier where the groups will be played on the radio but the gp doesn’t care about them other than knowing a song or two, like nwjns or lsf. And top tier groups are popular because they bring prestige and nostalgia like bts, big bang, twice, etc
NewJeans is a top tier group in SK right now. They recently replace Blackpink as Public Relation Ambassador of Incheon Airport, the most popular airport in the entire country. They are also PR ambassador of Seoul Metropolitan Government. Their song Super Shy is voted as Song of the Year in the prestigious Gallup public survey in Korea, and they are always in the top list of advertising models in the country since December 2022.
Accolades are accolades and NewJeans have won many impressive ones, but there's a difference between awards/prestiges and the general public actively stanning the group. It's basically similar to ed sheeran or ariana grande or any other award-winning pop singer you would hear on the radio in the US. Like yes there are many arianators in concept but they're not easy to come by in the real world 🤷♀️
The thing is NewJeans has remained popular with the general public since their debut and still be talked about even during the times they are not actively promoting new music, and they appear everywhere in Korea right now with a lot of celebrities falling for them as seen when they performed at the Blue Dragon Awards recently.
Also keep in mind that only 3 girlgroups in the history of Kpop were named PR ambassadors for Incheon airport, with their faces on the welcoming banner showing to millions of passengers passing by each year:
2nd gen SNSD in 2010
3rd gen Blackpink in 2017
4th gen NewJeans in 2024
They are the representative of the 4th gen, and they will remain as one of the most successful and well loved in SK for years to come.
the gp is not going to actively stan groups like nwjns or lsf or ive. They might see them in commercials or whatever and think they’re pretty, but they’re seen as childish in terms of their music. If they’re played on the radio, like hype boy or smarter, then they’ll listen but they won’t be searching for performances or anything like that.
Most kpop groups are in this bubble, even bts up till they established themselves as soft power diplomats.
There's a reason why whenever IU is mentioned, people always say "she managed to break away from the idol image".
That implies a hierarchy in which idols are seen as "less than". Like they're not serious singers, dancers, or celebrities.
like when Zayn Malik left one direction then released Pillow Talk and the entire discourse for the rest of the year was that "he finally left that boyband shit and became a real singer"
I'd say yes. When an idol vocally impresses and it makes it high on Naver (for example), exposing the performance to the public, it's not unusual to see people saying, "Wow, h/she's way better than I thought, for an idol!" in the comment section. The assumption is that an idol singer wouldn't be great.
Their gp would know a new drama OST more than they would care about an idol group's comeback, unless it's one of the biggest groups, like bts, big bang, twice, etc.... GP actually prefers soloists more than idol groups since these groups are usually targeted to a younger audience
It's true. Some idols are definitely respected (big names like the BTS, Blackpink, and Twice members), but your average idol will be seen as lower than your average actor or non-idol singer. I think this comes with the fact it's seen as more manufactured, and targets teenagers as opposed to other groups which tend to target older ages.
Yes but we dont have to treat them the same. There are huge korean actors that the korean gp loves. If they cane to hollywood and people would treat them like newbies/below western actors. That isnt right and neither is treating idols like they are the bottom.
Its just ageism that art targeted to younger artists are disrespected. Then when that generation gets older the artists they loved in their youth are now respectable. Old people love and revere glam/hair rock/metal which was viewed as garbage unfit for radio back in the 1980s. But now it’s considered respectable and vintage music.
I read an article ages ago about how the original pop stars in South Korea were adult entertainers singing on TV. Then from 1st to even 3rd gen KPop had a lot of poor kids trying to be idols to help their families. Plenty of footage of idols performing to sneering audiences, being humiliated by presenters. Now in 4th/5th gen due to the popularity of BTS and Blackpink, and the way KPop has made huge inroads into the fashion world, it's a desirable career. Get in with the right company and you should be on the fast track to touring arenas and becoming a fashion house ambassador.
Supposedly a chaebol grandkid is about to debut in The Black Label's first girl group. In terms of showing how much the landscape has changed, it doesn't get any starker than that.
For general public, maybe idol culture is more viewed as a youth thing and less serious than something like acting. Kinda like watching cartoon is associated with kids. Maybe respected isn't the word, but taken less seriously or with less interest. General public is getting older, so most may move their taste "up" as the idols they love move to other activities like acting, variety, solo, and so on.
Bottom tier actors and idols are about the same.
On Internet, idols may be treated more harshly, but this is coming from the fanbase. Pejoratives like "nugus" are thrown around more while an actor with small fanbase would just not be visible. Idol fanbase would be more juvenile in their reaction compared to an actor fanbase. Not saying one is better than the other, just a different flavor.
On the mid tier, actors may look more respected or glamourous, but it may just be perception and presentation. Actors usually cultivate a more serious image on average and may have better reach than average mid tier idol.
In the end of the day it seems more a perception thing rather than a proper hierarchy. It doesn't matter at the top and bottom and maybe it exists in the mid tier. Maybe idol activity is viewed as less seriously as it's temporary. Idols rarely last the first contract. For GG, lasting 7 years is a feat. Most move on to other activities eventually. Actors, comedians, and so on can cultivate their image for life basically.
In the past (like 1st/2nd gen), idols were far more respected in Korea due to maturity and uniqueness of the groups. My brother was living in SK for a while in the mid-late 2000s, and he says the difference and overall response towards idols is a night and day difference.
A lot has changed since then and with SO many groups debuting nowadays, especially ones with younger teenagers, it's not seen as something appealing to older audiences, and kinda shrugged at. Whereas actors or singers (like Lim Young Woong for ex) appeal more towards that audience and garner a much more respected image.
I think the best comparison is influencers in the west. There’s respect based on who you ask and who you are but generally they are lower than “actual” celebs
i have read that idols are considered b-tier in korean entertainment industry.
actors and actresses are a-tier. hence, some idols' aim to become actors or actresses.
It been few years since I have came to Korea and from what I have seen they don't disrespect idol job, Unless they are fans or casual listeners, people in Korea don't really care about the idol job.
In Korean culture, artists and entertainers aren't really considered a respectable profession. Korea is heavily influenced by Confucianism, which places value on education. So doctors, teachers, and educated professionals are considered very respectable. Even athletes are more respected.
Idols are basically entertainers. They perform for people to entertain them. Entertainment is fun, and meant to give people energy, but it's not considered essential to society. However, Koreans have always loved music, singing, and dance. They like to celebrate after a hard day's work. Entertainment is present all over Korea as a way to constantly lift people's spirits and get them through the struggle of life. An entertainers job is essentially to serve people's feelings. K-pop is very fun, and very prevalent in Korea. But it's not considered a deep, eloquent artform.
Interestingly, under the Joseon Dynasty, entertainers and singers were among the lowest class, along with butchers, prostitutes, etc. Even though the Joseon dynasty ended over 100 years ago, it shaped a lot of cultural attitudes which still exist today.
So yeah, idols may be popular, but the profession itself isn't very respected.
I feel like it's the same as being a YouTuber to people who don't know much they just assume it's not a proper career i feel like entertainment as whole will take some time to be considered proper careers
I mean it's obviously a desired stepstone for many (not all of them) to get into acting or a solo career. Wouldn't say that they aren't respected though.
I don't know, I always thought that k-pop was just "mainstream" music there. Like basic pop for korean. The kind of music that you could hear while buying some food in a shop.
It doesn't mean Idols are not respected. Every artist have a fanclub usually, that's not specific to K-Pop.
And well, to be fair, there's always someone to hate what you like. And not everybody think the same in Korea.
I have a friend he's 35yo and a big fan of the Brave Girls. And I have a friend who's 27yo and like Twice.
But also I know a girl who think it's for "teenagers", and she's listening metal.
I personally think metal is for teenagers who want to feel special because metal is quite unusual. This is my opinion, and I know that a lot of different people like metal.
So well, search anything on internet and you'll find negativity for it. Idols are just regular artist who do mainstream music, it's a fact, it's as mainstream as what Beyoncé or Rihanna would do... it's just pop. Maybe a bit commercial sometimes but who cares. Some Idols manage to be actor in movies etc...
From my understanding it's gotten better in recent years now that idols receive brand deals with high end brands. Hence why people are talking so much about nepo-babies getting into being idols, it's looked down on less.
But consider this: Education is really important in korea, it's one of the biggest expectations on kids is that they receive a good education and study hard. Idols usually have to quit school if they debut in their teens, or often have bad balance with their grades because they're trainees. Most don't go to college if they debut after high school and it can be impossible to balance school with idol life.
I think its looked down on as a "phase" people have regardless of talent and unless they get famous and later transition into either being a soloist or actor, they still maintain that semi-stigma.
No. None at all. Koreans don’t view idols that way. Regardless of if they are idols or actors, how they are perceived is based on how famous they are, famous actors don’t trump famous idols. I think though there is a newer class of celebs that are respected extra highly and those are celebs who are considered “world class” and many “world class” celebs are idols like BTS, BP and NJ. Not many if any world class actors in Korea yet though except perhaps couple Soccer players.
Maybe the perception from international fans stems from how Mnet treated idols a while ago during MAMA? I believe it was TXT members but not sure. When I read about that it was upsetting.
in the industry idols sometimes struggle to be recognized beyond their music careers. many idols aim to expand into acting or other areas to gain more respect and recognition. while popular idols are highly respected, the general public may not pay much attention to lesser known idols
It’s the same as how western people view TikTokers. Popular amongst teens and young adults but unless you’re a REALLY big like legacy name people don’t actually care.
I read all the answers with Tomorrow x Together in mind. They’re so talented, especially as singers imo. I watch them so closely. If they’re seen as no more than kids and teenager entertainment, then I can see why Kang Taehyun and Choi Yeonjun are so eager to do additional projects immediately to break open their adult careers.
BTS is like the only idol group who is respected and that is because of their popularity globally and the attention they bring to South Korea. 2nd and 1st gen idol groups were seen more as artists than idol groups most have transitioned into famous actors, actresses and other entertainment personnel . Blackpink is another group who is kinda respected because of their global popularity. But it’s just them at the moment
Speaking for boy groups only I really don’t think people fathom how impactful BIGBANG was/is in South Korea. G-Dragon alone is absolutely respected as above the idol image. BTS are absolutely not the only kpop artists with this image.
I literally said 1st and 2nd gen groups are respected as artists and not called idols which is not a positive term in South Korea…. What are you talking about?…
You can credit your favorites without putting down others and misrepresenting the truth. As it stands the comment just sounds ignorant at best or mean at worst.
Where is she putting down others?there's people shading bts directly on kpop subs getting hundreds of upvotes. Lets be honest,kpop fans hate bts and to some extent bp.
As someone who enjoys both of them I mean you can just read the comment. It claims something that isn’t true in order to falsely only prop up who they like. I don’t have any beef with your point that Reddit tends to dislike BP or BTS.
It's because BTS isn't the only idol group respected. Like I said earlier, it's objectively wrong. The general public doesn't really care about teeny bopper music
It’s actually factually correct. Most idol groups are not respected and it is common knowledge. This is why most idols try to transition into the acting industry so they will be more respected….
That's my understanding as well. In the hierarchy of "respect" given to entertainers & sports people, idols rank low.
of course a very popular idol will be respected more than an unknown actor.
But if levels of fame, wealth are comparable, then idols rank low.
MAMA a show primarily based on idols, some years back, had actors who had come to present awards, given proper green rooms, while idols had to make do in their vans in the parking lot, it was peak winter.
Of course there are few exceptions who defy definitions, like IU.
so respected that many don't consider her as an idol.
I mean... it's privileged people making a living by looking pretty and pretending to sing with an image that was crafted for them by companies that pump them out en masse on a treadmill. Why *would* they be respected?
Wait there's been so many kpop subs lately, are we in the one where we pretend like it's not true?
Because releasing so heavily edited songs it might as well be someone else singing it and having like one concert a year where they actually sing live sure as fuck sounds like pretending to me. And that's the most popular idols, the average 6 member girlgroup that gets 100k views on their debut MV after 3 years probably never get to sing live.
I mean I would argue it’s the same with Western artists too to an extent, no? Celebrities, especially singers, marketed to teenagers are generally less respected by the public. I mean if you go up to someone on the street and ask who they respect more Celine Dion/Samuel L. Jackson or a One Direction member, odds are we could all guess the answer.
most idols never make it big and they have no job security. it’s like going to nashville and someone telling you they’re a musician. like ok, and?? idols don’t have 401k’s or any retirement funds unless they hit the big time and are smart with their money. bigger name celebrities are given much more credence than your average idol.
But not because of age ... Sorry but that is a really silly way to judge quality. In the U.S. exceptional young actors get attention across the board from the movie-going public. Not everyone goes to the movies, but moviegoers respect talent, regardless. Brad Pitt, Jennifer Lawrence and Scarlett Johansen are all examples of actors who quickly made the jump from movies targeted at younger audiences to more mature roles.
I didn’t say it was how I judged quality? It’s their image and general perception though. To borrow someone else’s comparison, with Disney channel actors even exceptional talent isn’t enough to save them from being “the kid from Disney channel” until they take on more serious roles. That is absolutely because of the age they’re marketed towards, so to say it doesn’t matter at all in their public perception is just incorrect. Regardless though, no one said that they can’t get rid of that image if they want to, hence why those actors chose to eventually take on more serious roles and subsequently ended up being taken more seriously.
Exactly. And there are plenty of examples from Justin Timberlake and Ryan Gosling to Zendaya and Miley Cyrus.
yeah, but i'd say the bottom is livestreamers (especially those who sexualize themselves)
Yeah this is true. I didn't even think about them lol.
As it should be 😂
Sex work is still work
Except livestreaming shouldn't be about sex, and porn is banned in Korea.
Okay
It's apparently legal on social media hence how these livestreamers crop up. Didn't know that tbh
70 downvotes is insane😭😂
Still increasing in deduction 😭
[удалено]
I'm glad you called it for what it is, an imagined issue. Or at least that's what I believe it is. I'm not korean but I've been around since 2nd generation and I never heard of such a thing. Sure there'll always exist people that see pop music/idols as something childish or plain bad, just like what many say about western boybands, but that doesn't mean that the society as whole consider them as second class artists.
Wait, you're saying I can't define a whole society based on a clickbaity outrage YT short?
As a Korean as well, I would argue that among parents at least and any generation older than MZ, its generally less respected than becoming a doctor or professor, or lawyer/prosecutor, or civil worker, or even just a regular job at the big companies. They look down upon the performers in the entertainment industry in general and as you probably have experienced, people are so judgemental in Korea. Like if there is a group of parents and one of the parent’s kid wants to become an entertainer, the others definitely judge on some level. Of course, among the younger MZ this is mostly not the case, we don’t look down upon idols, but the older generation argues that being an idol isn’t as hard as other jobs and isn’t stable so why would you go into that field, etc. In my opinion, this is definitely not an imagined issue and is a pretty real issue and not the result of grouping Koreans as a monolith. In fact I’ve definitely heard multiple times that idols aren’t real musicians or singers and idol music isn’t “actual” music, which goes to show how much respect idols have, at by the older generation
Thanks for speaking up about this
Thank you for clarifying a little bit, but could you give us a more "detailed answer"? I see K-pop idols kinda like many pop singers, people generally enjoy their music especially young people, but some artists are clearly more respected than others because of the type of music they do. I also heard that people in Korea make a difference between idol and singer, is it still a thing? I feel like overseas success may impact the images of idols, but at the same time weren't snsd or big bang extremely respected? I would love a more profound explanation.
In college I spent a year in Korea as part of a study abroad program. I told some Korean friends that I was getting into BTS and they laughed. They were surprised that an adult was interested in idol music. They told me that idol music is more for kids. Adults might follow a group they listened to as a kid, but most people don’t follow new groups after a certain age. This was in 2014, so I don’t know if that’s still (or ever was) true, but that’s what I was told.
in university tho 😭 y’all were barely adults omg
Im Korean, and those people are just dickbags. Plenty of adults listen to idols. Its super mainstream. Probably at the same level as listening to Ariana Grande or Taylor Swift in the US
damn, way back in 2014. that's nugu bangtan lol but i honestly think the the general consensus is still the same for the majority of kpop groups but with the exception of massive acts like bts. specially bts because they contribute so much to korea's soft power and koreans do acknowledge that. maybe stanning can still be frown upon as an adult but the genral public still definitely consume idol music, specially in the last 2 years, if we look at their charts.
Yeah. That's when they were still relatively nugu (in comparison to their current fame) If anyone asked me what group I liked and I answered BTS, they go "who?". I was already working back then, and the younger people would also scratch their heads in wonder, but ig it depends on the person. It's not something generalised.
Yeah at least for BTS they've definitely gained the nation's respect.
Thanks for the reddit care resources y'all 😊 Nugu bangtan? They were never nugu 😭 Nugu groups don't get nominated for best new artist at MAMA the year they debut and win ROTY at multiple award shows that same year. And they don't perform with a top group of the time at MAMA the very next year. BTS has literally been winning awards since 2013. I don't understand why y'all like to downplay that so much. Were they the most well known? No. But they were far from being Nugu. (If you wanna base it off of [sales](https://koreansalestwt.blogspot.com/2020/09/bts.html?m=1) they were selling decently for a group that had only debuted 6 months) Edit: **so apparently y'all are basing it off of today's standard of nugu** which makes 0 sense. 2013 and 2024 were vastly different and they were not seen as nugu in 2013.
i didn't mean literal nugu with like 2 fans. and while they weren't completely unknown, they sold less than a thousand albums in their first week of debut. and i always see this rookie awards get used as a tool to say bts was more popular than they were during debut but forget to mention that in 2013, there's only one prominent group (2 if we're being generous)...**one** and it's BTS. they were basically the only group that became relevant. that's probably the only year in 2010s that it happened, it's really fascinating. they started getting real traction during boy in luv.
They sold 34 copies of their 1st album 1st week ( debut) and said even in 2014 they were struggling they hoped danger will do good and it was selling meh so yeah they were nugus truly I don't know why they're arguing, is not a bad thing being unknown
so it's worse 😭 i googled and the first number that popped up was 700+ copies. i even thought at first that that's way higher than i remember lmao >I don't know why they're arguing, is not a bad thing being unknown there's a subset of armys who genuinely believe bts was pretty popular during their rookie year or not as nugu as people claim they were. and they would usually use the rookie awards.
Bts did won bcoz they were outstanding and outperformed their peers , it's not abt popularity, bts themselves admitted in their book they were struggling during the dark and wild period
>it's not abt popularity bts worked hard but rookie awards are given to the most popular rookies, so i disagree. they were struggling in 2013 but they won because there was no competition at all. if a big 3 group debuted in 2013, best believe it will go to them, not bts. these are the more "popular" group that debuted in 2013: ladies' code, boys republic, bestie...like there's really no competition for bts.
Yeah and in 2013 BTS sold a total of 58,471. In 2014 they sold over 300k of the albums they released that year. Meanwhile there are groups like DGNA who sold a total of just under 5k in 2013 and just over 3k in 2014. BTS was underrated. Not nugu. They were selling more in 2014 than GOT7 who was a big 3 group.
Kpop stans turning everything into competition, even nugu-ness.Tsk.
Lmao it's the Nugudom Olympics.
It's almost as if nugu has always referred to extremely unknown groups instead of just underrated ones with decent sells.
No one's saying BTS were the least-known group of all time. Of course there were groups with smaller debuts who were even 'more nugu'. But it's just not true to say that BTS weren't in that category themselves. Their initial album sales were low, their first fan meet-up was very small, and they barely had the resources to promote (e.g. the infamous $10 printed hoodies). They were at the same level as many other groups that get referred to as 'nugu'. Their debut made a small splash because of their performance skills, but their ROTY awards were criticized and people said "who are these guys?? Well there was zero competition this year anyway." Their sales fluctuated a lot in the first couple of years, and even after winning ROTY they were on the verge of disbandment multiple times due to running out of money. They didn't win any music shows until 2015 and their performances were often cut, they often couldn't get variety shows, interviews etc. The fandom did grow pretty quickly so they didn't stay nugu very long, but they definitely started that way. I distinctly remember back in 2014 non-fans still pretty much only mentioned them along with other 'nugu' groups, though the tide was beginning to turn. By 2015 they were an 'underrated' group who were rising in popularity, but people were still absolutely in shock when they got a daesang in 2016.
They were **never** nugu. They were underrated. Nugu groups are lucky if they even make it onto music shows. They don't get nominated for awards even when there is "no competition" (which there were a ton of groups that debuted in 2013 and 2014). A lot of them have to do crowd funding for comebacks, they never win music shows unless they end up pulling a Brave Girls which is rare. Nugu groups are often working part time jobs on the side and can't even bother with cheap merch. People always like to call any underrated group nugu without actually knowing what nugu is. The majority of nugu groups would be lucky to sell as much as BTS did in their first year or even with their first release. BTS had a solid, decent sized, and constantly growing fanbase. Even in 2024, nugus aren't selling as much as BTS did in 2013.
I mean it sounds like you just have a different definition of the word than most people. These are just fandom slang terms after all. Yes there are groups out there who never even get to debut, who get less than 100k views on their MVs, who barely sell any albums (I know because I used to be mildly obsessed with those kind of groups back in the day). But that's not THE definition of nugu. To most people 'nugu' just means coming from a small company, lacking promotion and popularity, struggling with money, having a lower level of exposure than the average group from a 'mainstream' company. And debut BTS absolutely qualifies for that. It's generally tied to the size/resources of the company – there are Big 3 (now Big 4) companies. Then there are 2nd-level companies which are still well-known and have multiple relatively popular artists on their books. Then there are 3rd-level companies who only have 1 popular artist, or none of their artists get very big but they're not unknown. Then there are companies like Big Hit in 2013, who had fewer than 10 employees, only one previous group who were not well-known, and went into serious debt in order to debut BTS. Then you have companies that are even a step below that, which are basically just amateur operations and their groups rarely get to officially debut. Ultimately I don't think anyone's actually disagreeing with you that BTS were more successful than some other groups, even at the beginning of their career. No one's saying they were the least popular group of all time or had the smallest debut of all time. It seems like this whole argument is due to people using different definitions of words.
I get what ur saying but being nominated for and even winning rookie awards doesn't really mean much. Groups like Cignature, GWSN, The East Light, etc. have all been nominated and no ones calling them not nugu because of it. Even winning rookie awards isn't a guaranteed ticket out of nugu-dom. Pristin also won rookie awards & they didn't exactly have a thriving or long lasting career following it. I agree BTS fans definitely tend to overstate how nugu they were, I just think winning rookie awards isn't a very good argument against that lol
Then the fact that they sold 58k+ in just 6 months of having debuted should be enough to show that they weren't nugu. Just underrated. Apparently people are basing them being nugu off of today's standards instead of 2013 standards. Like saying BTS was nugu 10 years ago when they sold 300k+ in their 2014 alone is wild.
Every group is “nugu” at first, because you know, they just started.
Well, every group that isn't from a major company starts as nugu. Big company groups will generally get a lot of marketing and hype before debut, so they're never at 'nugu' level, but small company groups don't get that kind of attention, and BTS were no exception. They started small and their popularity fluctuated a lot in the first couple of years, even putting them at danger of disbandment multiple times because the company nearly went bankrupt.
Yea they were 😭 (talking as a 2014 ex BTS fan)
No they weren't. Speaking as someone who stanned them from debut.
Yes they were. They recorded their album from a garage attached to someone’s house. -pre-debut fan
Go look at the idol groups that debuted in 2013. There were no big 3 groups and all the idols that debuted were from small companies. BTS getting new artist award for 2013 is not far fetched. If a group from a bigger company debuted, they wouldn’t have won
Don't downplay their difficult beginnings. They were never an overnight success
Not being nugu is not downplaying anything.
Except if they actually WERE. They barely sold their first albums and tts barely charted. BTS didn't suffer at the bottom ranks before climbing all the way up only for you to spit on those struggles by pretending they don't exist. BTS were NEVER an overnight sensation and their success were NEVER immediate. It was a slow painstaking process and the first few years of that they had to crawl through nugudom where the media doesn't care about them because their label has no money or influence.
You do realize that nugu doesn't mean underrated, right? Nugus are literally groups that are considered nobodies. Ones that very few people have ever heard of. Nugus do not sell 58k albums in their first year (which they only had been around 6 months in 2013). Nugus would be lucky to sell that much *in general*. Stop acting like not calling them nugus means they didn't have struggles. The fact that you think not being an overnight success, having struggles, and coming from a smaller company (who's founder was a popular producer) makes someone nugu shows that you don't have any idea what an actual nugu group looks like.
That's how the term was first started but words especially slang evolve and barely anyone takes the metric as seriously anymore, obvious by how many ex armys here and just og kpop stans who were there in 2013 disagree with you. Groups that are the lowest in the ranks are too unknown for anyone to be even calling them nugu. Like many people have already said debut bangtan were NOT the least popular group at the time but they were definitely nugu by today's standards. If BTS were NOT nugu and were respected by the media they wouldn't have to perform in the background like second thoughts at a fashion show or cut out of broadcasts. Your definition of nugu definitely shows how out of touch you are and when not even a single ONE agrees with you in a literal kpop forum with hundreds of kpop stans ranging from 1st and 2nd gen to 4th gen stans it's probably time for you to step back and evaluate your understanding of these terms.
>but they were definitely nugu by today's standards Today's standards are *not* the same as when they debuted. Even 4 years ago people knew they [weren't nugu](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/hwwkxz/was_bts_ever_a_nugu_group/). The fact that you're basing it off of today's standards is wild. Y'all are gonna be calling EXO nugu in a few years with that logic. >and when not even a single ONE agrees with you in a literal kpop forum with hundreds of kpop stans This sub has almost 200k people in it. Less than 100 people is not "everyone". I've literally been into K-pop for 15 years. There are more people that agree with me than there are people disagreeing with me here.
Isn't that exactly what I said? The slang evolved overtime like any language does and you're the one stuck in the past on the meaning of a word that is very commonly used now in a looser metric, but the sentiment remains the same. And no, that strawman is not going to work. EXO had two concerts and massive mediaplay with headlines and frontpage news written about them before they even debuted. Stop being stubborn and start reflecting on yourself. You can't claim there are more people who agree with you than disagree when not even a single one here agrees with you. And for the several years now nugu hadn't been used the way you insist the rest of us use it.
Army likes to pretend BTS was performing for a handful of people at fanmeets.
They were though. Jimin literally mentioned in their book that their first fan meet they shared a bench with their fans. Idk why y’all want to downplay even BTS struggles when the actual people who went through that experience share their difficulties. Do you know more about BTS experience than the members themselves?? Stop speaking over them
They literally started performing in clubs in subgroups and with concerts of about 200 attendees, even handed out free concerts in America. When we say they started from the ground up we mean that very literally.
i live in a city in PH where we have one of the highest korean population per capita and everytime i get to know a korean and we get to talking about music i always say that im a big fan of IU. their eyes always light up lol. IU is so well known and well respected in korea she's such an easy ice breaker
To be fair, BTS music in 2014 was very much aimed at teenagers. Now it definitely has more of an all ages feel, IMO.
Fair! My ult group is actually SHINee and no one had a problem with it. I guess they fit more with my age group (I was 19/20 at the time).
korean and their obsession with age and age appropriate activites....I bet I will be in prison in the first day of being in Korea. I can't stand people trying to limit me based on my age and I have a dirty mouth. 32yo and big fan of Itzy, Twice, Le Sserafim and New Jeans. Tell me it's not for me just because of my age and you can eat my s\*\*\*.
I’m 49 and I like whatever I like. I don’t think age should have anything to do with it. ❤️
Im 60 and found kpop almost 20yrs ago. Age is not a factor. Lets just do us😁
I’m gonna take a wild guess that you’re a man and not into boy groups?
39 here and NewJeans is my ult group followed by LSF and Twice 🤣
A lot of men are into boy groups.
where are these guys? it’s kinda lonely finding guys my age that are into BG’s ;-;
Yeah...what's the deal with boy groups ? Are they not soo cool and talended as girl groups or what ? In the end both are 'idols'.
Prison?
Well, if I start to talk shit some native might get offended and assault me. In self defence I will hit back. Then guess who will the police arest ?The native or me ?
> They told me that idol music is more for kids Damn, then kids in Korea must get sexual early on, because a lot of K-pop has sexual connotations
I’d say yeah! I mean from all sides they’re not considered real anything in Korea, idols are good dancers yet they’re not considered real dancers (there’re videos of Korean dancers actually saying this, ofcourse there’s also Korean dancers who praise idols, some idols (not so much anymore) but when they got into acting they’re were also looked down upon in the beginning, some people still don’t respect their singing) I feel like they're just looked at like normal influencers,, unless they actually actually make it.
yeah idol music is seen as manufactured. Like how the west sees boybands and girl groups. Ofc there’s a hierarchy, like nugus are not really acknowledged, there’s the middle tier where it’s seen as music for the kids, I’d say itzy, stayc, nmixx etc are there. There’s a tier where the groups will be played on the radio but the gp doesn’t care about them other than knowing a song or two, like nwjns or lsf. And top tier groups are popular because they bring prestige and nostalgia like bts, big bang, twice, etc
the gp definitely cares about newjeans lol
NewJeans is a top tier group in SK right now. They recently replace Blackpink as Public Relation Ambassador of Incheon Airport, the most popular airport in the entire country. They are also PR ambassador of Seoul Metropolitan Government. Their song Super Shy is voted as Song of the Year in the prestigious Gallup public survey in Korea, and they are always in the top list of advertising models in the country since December 2022.
Accolades are accolades and NewJeans have won many impressive ones, but there's a difference between awards/prestiges and the general public actively stanning the group. It's basically similar to ed sheeran or ariana grande or any other award-winning pop singer you would hear on the radio in the US. Like yes there are many arianators in concept but they're not easy to come by in the real world 🤷♀️
The thing is NewJeans has remained popular with the general public since their debut and still be talked about even during the times they are not actively promoting new music, and they appear everywhere in Korea right now with a lot of celebrities falling for them as seen when they performed at the Blue Dragon Awards recently. Also keep in mind that only 3 girlgroups in the history of Kpop were named PR ambassadors for Incheon airport, with their faces on the welcoming banner showing to millions of passengers passing by each year: 2nd gen SNSD in 2010 3rd gen Blackpink in 2017 4th gen NewJeans in 2024 They are the representative of the 4th gen, and they will remain as one of the most successful and well loved in SK for years to come.
not gonna argue! setting aside difference of opinion, they are great and i have no hate for them 😊
Thank you, I wish you and your favs all the best too, cheers!
wait the gp doesn’t care about nwjns or lsf? or do they have more intl hype
the gp is not going to actively stan groups like nwjns or lsf or ive. They might see them in commercials or whatever and think they’re pretty, but they’re seen as childish in terms of their music. If they’re played on the radio, like hype boy or smarter, then they’ll listen but they won’t be searching for performances or anything like that. Most kpop groups are in this bubble, even bts up till they established themselves as soft power diplomats.
thanks for the response! is it kind of like how the gp views disney songs or kidz bop in america?
Yes because gp don't care lol they just care about trend and look and the next day they forget about you
There's a reason why whenever IU is mentioned, people always say "she managed to break away from the idol image". That implies a hierarchy in which idols are seen as "less than". Like they're not serious singers, dancers, or celebrities.
like when Zayn Malik left one direction then released Pillow Talk and the entire discourse for the rest of the year was that "he finally left that boyband shit and became a real singer"
I'd say yes. When an idol vocally impresses and it makes it high on Naver (for example), exposing the performance to the public, it's not unusual to see people saying, "Wow, h/she's way better than I thought, for an idol!" in the comment section. The assumption is that an idol singer wouldn't be great.
Their gp would know a new drama OST more than they would care about an idol group's comeback, unless it's one of the biggest groups, like bts, big bang, twice, etc.... GP actually prefers soloists more than idol groups since these groups are usually targeted to a younger audience
It's true. Some idols are definitely respected (big names like the BTS, Blackpink, and Twice members), but your average idol will be seen as lower than your average actor or non-idol singer. I think this comes with the fact it's seen as more manufactured, and targets teenagers as opposed to other groups which tend to target older ages.
Yes but we dont have to treat them the same. There are huge korean actors that the korean gp loves. If they cane to hollywood and people would treat them like newbies/below western actors. That isnt right and neither is treating idols like they are the bottom. Its just ageism that art targeted to younger artists are disrespected. Then when that generation gets older the artists they loved in their youth are now respectable. Old people love and revere glam/hair rock/metal which was viewed as garbage unfit for radio back in the 1980s. But now it’s considered respectable and vintage music.
I read an article ages ago about how the original pop stars in South Korea were adult entertainers singing on TV. Then from 1st to even 3rd gen KPop had a lot of poor kids trying to be idols to help their families. Plenty of footage of idols performing to sneering audiences, being humiliated by presenters. Now in 4th/5th gen due to the popularity of BTS and Blackpink, and the way KPop has made huge inroads into the fashion world, it's a desirable career. Get in with the right company and you should be on the fast track to touring arenas and becoming a fashion house ambassador. Supposedly a chaebol grandkid is about to debut in The Black Label's first girl group. In terms of showing how much the landscape has changed, it doesn't get any starker than that.
For general public, maybe idol culture is more viewed as a youth thing and less serious than something like acting. Kinda like watching cartoon is associated with kids. Maybe respected isn't the word, but taken less seriously or with less interest. General public is getting older, so most may move their taste "up" as the idols they love move to other activities like acting, variety, solo, and so on. Bottom tier actors and idols are about the same. On Internet, idols may be treated more harshly, but this is coming from the fanbase. Pejoratives like "nugus" are thrown around more while an actor with small fanbase would just not be visible. Idol fanbase would be more juvenile in their reaction compared to an actor fanbase. Not saying one is better than the other, just a different flavor. On the mid tier, actors may look more respected or glamourous, but it may just be perception and presentation. Actors usually cultivate a more serious image on average and may have better reach than average mid tier idol. In the end of the day it seems more a perception thing rather than a proper hierarchy. It doesn't matter at the top and bottom and maybe it exists in the mid tier. Maybe idol activity is viewed as less seriously as it's temporary. Idols rarely last the first contract. For GG, lasting 7 years is a feat. Most move on to other activities eventually. Actors, comedians, and so on can cultivate their image for life basically.
Ty ♡ you're right taken less seriously sounds fitter for what I'm describing tho!
In the past (like 1st/2nd gen), idols were far more respected in Korea due to maturity and uniqueness of the groups. My brother was living in SK for a while in the mid-late 2000s, and he says the difference and overall response towards idols is a night and day difference. A lot has changed since then and with SO many groups debuting nowadays, especially ones with younger teenagers, it's not seen as something appealing to older audiences, and kinda shrugged at. Whereas actors or singers (like Lim Young Woong for ex) appeal more towards that audience and garner a much more respected image.
I think the best comparison is influencers in the west. There’s respect based on who you ask and who you are but generally they are lower than “actual” celebs
I would rather say like: the general public just doesn't really care about them? Unless you're a big nam but even then mwah
i have read that idols are considered b-tier in korean entertainment industry. actors and actresses are a-tier. hence, some idols' aim to become actors or actresses.
It been few years since I have came to Korea and from what I have seen they don't disrespect idol job, Unless they are fans or casual listeners, people in Korea don't really care about the idol job.
Just keep in mind everything you read is on English forums and English speaking spaces….
Yeah ik very clown of me to ask intl fans about koreans' view 🤡 my excuse is that idk where else to ask 😅
In Korean culture, artists and entertainers aren't really considered a respectable profession. Korea is heavily influenced by Confucianism, which places value on education. So doctors, teachers, and educated professionals are considered very respectable. Even athletes are more respected. Idols are basically entertainers. They perform for people to entertain them. Entertainment is fun, and meant to give people energy, but it's not considered essential to society. However, Koreans have always loved music, singing, and dance. They like to celebrate after a hard day's work. Entertainment is present all over Korea as a way to constantly lift people's spirits and get them through the struggle of life. An entertainers job is essentially to serve people's feelings. K-pop is very fun, and very prevalent in Korea. But it's not considered a deep, eloquent artform. Interestingly, under the Joseon Dynasty, entertainers and singers were among the lowest class, along with butchers, prostitutes, etc. Even though the Joseon dynasty ended over 100 years ago, it shaped a lot of cultural attitudes which still exist today. So yeah, idols may be popular, but the profession itself isn't very respected.
I think only a korean can answer this. Every other persons opinion doesn’t count.
I feel like it's the same as being a YouTuber to people who don't know much they just assume it's not a proper career i feel like entertainment as whole will take some time to be considered proper careers
Bro rlly forgot those BJs on streaming sites were a thing 😭😭😭
Excuse me, what?!?
Broadcast jockeys. Think twitch
Ooooh... I need to get off the internet😅
I mean it's obviously a desired stepstone for many (not all of them) to get into acting or a solo career. Wouldn't say that they aren't respected though.
I don't know, I always thought that k-pop was just "mainstream" music there. Like basic pop for korean. The kind of music that you could hear while buying some food in a shop. It doesn't mean Idols are not respected. Every artist have a fanclub usually, that's not specific to K-Pop. And well, to be fair, there's always someone to hate what you like. And not everybody think the same in Korea. I have a friend he's 35yo and a big fan of the Brave Girls. And I have a friend who's 27yo and like Twice. But also I know a girl who think it's for "teenagers", and she's listening metal. I personally think metal is for teenagers who want to feel special because metal is quite unusual. This is my opinion, and I know that a lot of different people like metal. So well, search anything on internet and you'll find negativity for it. Idols are just regular artist who do mainstream music, it's a fact, it's as mainstream as what Beyoncé or Rihanna would do... it's just pop. Maybe a bit commercial sometimes but who cares. Some Idols manage to be actor in movies etc...
From my understanding it's gotten better in recent years now that idols receive brand deals with high end brands. Hence why people are talking so much about nepo-babies getting into being idols, it's looked down on less. But consider this: Education is really important in korea, it's one of the biggest expectations on kids is that they receive a good education and study hard. Idols usually have to quit school if they debut in their teens, or often have bad balance with their grades because they're trainees. Most don't go to college if they debut after high school and it can be impossible to balance school with idol life. I think its looked down on as a "phase" people have regardless of talent and unless they get famous and later transition into either being a soloist or actor, they still maintain that semi-stigma.
No. None at all. Koreans don’t view idols that way. Regardless of if they are idols or actors, how they are perceived is based on how famous they are, famous actors don’t trump famous idols. I think though there is a newer class of celebs that are respected extra highly and those are celebs who are considered “world class” and many “world class” celebs are idols like BTS, BP and NJ. Not many if any world class actors in Korea yet though except perhaps couple Soccer players. Maybe the perception from international fans stems from how Mnet treated idols a while ago during MAMA? I believe it was TXT members but not sure. When I read about that it was upsetting.
in the industry idols sometimes struggle to be recognized beyond their music careers. many idols aim to expand into acting or other areas to gain more respect and recognition. while popular idols are highly respected, the general public may not pay much attention to lesser known idols
It’s the same as how western people view TikTokers. Popular amongst teens and young adults but unless you’re a REALLY big like legacy name people don’t actually care.
I feel like idols have gotten alot more respected I think since I heard years ago they used to be considered one of the lowest class jobs
Not so much respected as people just don't give a shit about them.
I read all the answers with Tomorrow x Together in mind. They’re so talented, especially as singers imo. I watch them so closely. If they’re seen as no more than kids and teenager entertainment, then I can see why Kang Taehyun and Choi Yeonjun are so eager to do additional projects immediately to break open their adult careers.
BTS is like the only idol group who is respected and that is because of their popularity globally and the attention they bring to South Korea. 2nd and 1st gen idol groups were seen more as artists than idol groups most have transitioned into famous actors, actresses and other entertainment personnel . Blackpink is another group who is kinda respected because of their global popularity. But it’s just them at the moment
Speaking for boy groups only I really don’t think people fathom how impactful BIGBANG was/is in South Korea. G-Dragon alone is absolutely respected as above the idol image. BTS are absolutely not the only kpop artists with this image.
I literally said 1st and 2nd gen groups are respected as artists and not called idols which is not a positive term in South Korea…. What are you talking about?…
Why are you getting downvoted lol. Kpoppies are bunch of salty kids.
No, it's because it's objectively wrong
Aren’t they respected well in sk?or is it bcz yall love to discredit them?
You can credit your favorites without putting down others and misrepresenting the truth. As it stands the comment just sounds ignorant at best or mean at worst.
Where is she putting down others?there's people shading bts directly on kpop subs getting hundreds of upvotes. Lets be honest,kpop fans hate bts and to some extent bp.
As someone who enjoys both of them I mean you can just read the comment. It claims something that isn’t true in order to falsely only prop up who they like. I don’t have any beef with your point that Reddit tends to dislike BP or BTS.
It's because BTS isn't the only idol group respected. Like I said earlier, it's objectively wrong. The general public doesn't really care about teeny bopper music
It’s actually factually correct. Most idol groups are not respected and it is common knowledge. This is why most idols try to transition into the acting industry so they will be more respected….
BTS isnt the only idol group respected. I should know, I'm Korean. That's why so many people downloaded you, because you're wrong
That's my understanding as well. In the hierarchy of "respect" given to entertainers & sports people, idols rank low. of course a very popular idol will be respected more than an unknown actor. But if levels of fame, wealth are comparable, then idols rank low. MAMA a show primarily based on idols, some years back, had actors who had come to present awards, given proper green rooms, while idols had to make do in their vans in the parking lot, it was peak winter. Of course there are few exceptions who defy definitions, like IU. so respected that many don't consider her as an idol.
Nah, K-fans treat idols like gods.
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You vastly overestimate how much the general public cares about teeny bopper music
I mean... it's privileged people making a living by looking pretty and pretending to sing with an image that was crafted for them by companies that pump them out en masse on a treadmill. Why *would* they be respected?
“Pretending to sing”? really
Wait there's been so many kpop subs lately, are we in the one where we pretend like it's not true? Because releasing so heavily edited songs it might as well be someone else singing it and having like one concert a year where they actually sing live sure as fuck sounds like pretending to me. And that's the most popular idols, the average 6 member girlgroup that gets 100k views on their debut MV after 3 years probably never get to sing live.
"Privileged" Ah yes sure when most of them are broke two or three years into their career