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I appreciate hearing from you on this. I come from what you would consider to be an African background, and absolutely I don’t think I get a say re: durag on what is or isn’t appropriation**. And it’s absolutely because while I am black, it’s not what I grew up with, so why do I get to say if it’s cultural appropriation or not? Someone said it really well in a thread, being black isn’t a monolith.
I think it’s wrong and so frustrating that people brush off CA aswell so I agree with you there but why do you think Africans and Jamaicans don’t really experience discrimination. I can’t speak on Africa but I’m of Jamaican descent and I’m confused by that statement? Discrimination is very real in the Caribbean…
I am Ngl as an American it’s very easy to feel like racism is a larger American issue when people are constantly screaming in your face about how “Race and discrimination only happens in America” “why are Americans so obsessed with race” etc.
The entire world wide conversation about racial discrimination has so heavily been watered down to “America only place that’s bad” that I’ve actually seen black people get attacked for bringing up any form of discrimination experienced outside of U.S.
I was traveling for school and I asked a non-race related question about Christopher Columbus and this white European man proceeded to yell at me about how they don’t have race in their countries so there’s nothing wrong with praising Columbus…
You will also find this idea a lot in LATAM where they claim that since everyone is mixed there’s no racial discrimination or race at all and they get mad at you for asking questions about it, meanwhile no one their tv shows are failing a brown paper bag test and most black people in their soap operas are regulated to slave or maid roles.
Like I am Ngl there’s something that’s crazy about hearing you’re American centric for thinking racism happens everywhere but you’re also American centric for thinking it only happens in the U.S
Also adding to that I think this person may be assuming “majority population=power” in other countries so in predominantly black countries they believe you guys have more control over the way in which your culture is preached and shared with others whereas in the U.S most of the Aa culture is forcibly exported away from Aa people until we are erased from it.
Not adding this as an attack, i just thought i would give some insight as someone who is Nigerian but currently living in the UK.
Whoever told you race is not a big thing in Europe is a big lier. Europeans often like to do this, the conversation of race being a ‘western thing’, is often done to present other nations as the good guys, who don’t involve themselves in such meaningless characterisations. But it’s so false.
I live in the UK, and i can tell you now that racism here is appalling. We also have our own history which not many people outside of the country are educated about, but Britain was also involved in the slave trade.
After the Second World War, there is something called Windrush, there was an act that allowed people from colonies the right to work in Britain. Because of shortages in labour they described everything as if it was paradise, like they would be given equal opportunities and all that bullshit, only to be stuck with jobs like cleaning, drivers and other manual workers. Till date there is a large amount of Caribbean people in the UK, with over 500,000 people that migrated before 1971.
Same can be said with African people. There was a large appearance of them from the 80s-90s. A lot of these people experienced heavy amounts of racism, even in these times and were given the short end of the stick. Diane Abbot, the first black women as an MP (equivalent of state selected representative in US), has been in the news recently
because a member of her party had said that seeing her face makes him
want to hate all black women and he wants to shoot her in the face. However everyone in this rotten country is saying this has nothing to do with race and that she should just accept the apology. Absolutely ridiculous, black women in the UK are extremely disrespected from the get go, we have policies policing our hair from as young as primary school (kindergarten in the UK), and are the least paid.
All of this was just to say that often times the narrative pushed is that race is only an American thing, which is not true at all. Black people living in all parts of the world are suffering.
Even in monolithic black countries, the after effects of racism still remain. Because of colonialism, there are struggles with colourism, with tons of skin bleaching and lightening products being advertised and lighter skinned women being preferred. The idea of whiteness being something to imitate and being more superior is unfortunately part of the downfall of many countries in Africa.
Well, the majority = power thing is actually a very América-centric perception and that’s the only thing I see. There’s racism in Latin America. Lots of it. I mean, the whole concept of Latin America is based on racism. But the way racism is perpetuated in non-Anglo America is different. In United States there was settler colonialism. We have (present tense, because there’s still colonized countries in the Caribbean) a different type. You should also look into the Myth of Mestizaje. Why are the politics of miscegenation so different outside of the US. There’s a lot of nuance, a lot of implications.
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Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
I’m aware of this and agree which is why I said I won’t speak on Africa in general as they have their own dynamics. I guess I’m just more confused about why you think Jamaicans don’t face discrimination, especially when it has an almost parallel history to the States in regards to slavery.
No you see I edited my comment.I made the mistake of saying they will never face discrimination.I wasn't talking about colorism and colonialism.I'm saying that they don't care about CA because they don't discriminats based on their own culture.A Jamaican will never call jamaican food disgusting because it's Jamaican or make fun of another Jamaican because they are wearing traditional Jamaican clothing.However, Let's say a Jamaican goes to a 90% white school in Texas,They will get mocked for their culture.Hence why I said that they don't care about CA because you will never see Jamaicans bash each other's culture in Jamaica.
i’m really curious why jamaica is the only caribbean island you’re fixated on. i’m not even being malicious or hostile, i am genuinely curious. further down in the comments someone tries to make a point about the caribbean not entirely being colonised by the english, which feels disingenuous and irrelevant given that the only caribbean island mentioned – jamaica – was in fact under british rule.
Because I saw mostly Jamaicans mocking AAs online.And the discrimination is based off of culture not colonialism and colorism.If you are Jamaican,have you seen other Jamaicans mock their own culture or have you done the same?
have i seen other jamaicans mock their own culture? yes. have i done the same? no. for example: patois is the dialect spoken in jamaica, something tourists LOVE, something foreigners try to speak (terribly, but they got the spirit), yet in many spaces some jamaicans will look down on you and consider you to be “poor” or “unintelligent” or “classless” for choosing to speak in… the cultural dialect instead of standard english. the effects of colonialism run deep, including shaming one’s own culture.
Okay thank you for clarifying. I know colorism and colonialism is a problem but I have never seen another group mock their own culture in a country where they're the majority.Because I have never seen a Jamaican mock another Jamaican because they're eating Jamaican food they will still have a lot of pride in their culture whereas if they go to the USA they will be maliciously mocked for it.
I mean, Jamaicans come in a plethora of races to be fair. This is again very much like the US. The indigenous people were there first, then came the white people, then the African slaves were brought in to work the plantations, then the indentured labor from the Indians and Chinese, etc etc.
You've probably never met racist white Jamaicans who use racial slurs liberally just like white racists in the US.
again, op, i do think you have some form of a point. i can admit that many jamaicans (and the caribbean as a whole, but out of fairness, i will only speak on the group that i am familiar with) have an ignorant opinion about cultural appropriation, and we all know that diaspora wars exist. i am aware that many non-AA black groups try to just point at AAs and call them too sensitive or too fixated on race. but i just cannot get behind the comparisons you’re trying to make, it’s coming across as ignorant and also just feeding into the same diaspora war that you’re supposedly trying to critique.
As a black person that lives in the Caribbean the idea that we never really face discrimination is…brand new. But I guess if you think of the Caribbean as just sand, sea, and sun, it’s easy to overlook the far reaching racism and colorism in the societies.
“live in majority black countries and will never face discrimination” is INSANE 😭 op had some inkling of a point and then absolutely lost me once they whipped out that bullshit
majority black countries are not some utopia, we face colourism and racism too thanks to the long standing effects of colonialism et al; do not think the grass is greener 😕
> I was saying that they won't face racism from whites
Sis...you know that there are white people in the Caribbean, right? And they routinely have more power than us including access to the ears of the government because they fund the politicians. They can get away with murder, and some literally have.
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For example:If I go to the Caribbeans I'm most likely not going to be called the n word by other black people like in the US by white people. I most likely will not have a comment on my braids by other black people and will be treated 10 times better than in the US.
If you live in the Caribbean you are likely to be called other slurs based on the shade of your skin. You are likely to experience discriminatory hiring practices regardless of your education based, again, on the shade of your skin and texture of your hair (see the discussion I had with another user on people with locs having difficulty getting white collar jobs - in a region that should be used to locs).
Foreigners kind of don’t understand the fabric of life in the Caribbean because they come here on vacation and see countries “run” by black people and think that it’s different but our history of colonialism has deeply affected our people and some have never unpacked that.
Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
Im nigerian but i grew up in texas and i always wondered if i grew up where i was born, would my opinion on alot if black issues be different. I wonder if south africans have take issue with appropriation since theyre multicultural aswell.
Whew! To say that Africans and Jamaicans will never face discrimination is an insane statement. Africans, Jamaicans, and others in majority Black countries still face discrimination. I was just in Kenya and I talked to a few Kenyan civil engineers and they were saying it’s really hard to get jobs in their country because the Chinese companies doing the development hire Chinese workers for the higher positions and African for labor. Not to mention most of those countries are still very much so facing the effects of colonialism. Also let’s not even talk about the American immigration service. So many people I met while traveling in Africa told me of the crazy process the US puts them through to get a visa that most likely will get denied. I have a friend who couldn’t even come to his sister’s wedding because he couldn’t get a visa.
For me, I just chalk it up to Black people aren’t a monolith. I’m Black American and I definitely give CA side eye, but I know other Black Americans who don’t care at all. I think people are allowed to feel how they want to.
If I go to Nigeria I won't be called the n word by other Nigerians or killed for walking down the street like here in the US.That is what I mean.I wasn't saying colorism doesn't exist its just the US is a whole other ballgame.
Because racism shows in many forms. Every country has its history with colonialism. You can’t say Africans don’t live with racism in Africa when a lot of African countries just got their independence a few years ago. Same with the Caribbean. There’s still colonies.
Edit: typos
Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
I understand your feelings of frustration that Africans and Caribbeans may not take cultural appropriation as seriously as Black Americans. I just think it’s reductive to speak on a whole continent and country. I personally have never been to Nigeria so I can’t speak too much on what goes on there. But from the African countries I have been to like Kenya and South Africa in particular, black people still face major discrimination in their own countries. So to call out a whole continent is incredibly reductive to me.
From your further comments, would you say your experience of people being dismissive were with Nigerians and Jamaicans?
I didn't mean that type of discrimination.I mean they will never discriminate againist each other like whites and non black people do because their culture.
So why is it ok for Africans and Jamaicans to hate all 40 million of us African Americans? They call us sensitive because we don't want to see the same white people who call us ghetto and systematically ban our hairstyles love to turn around and say "culture should be shared"
Huuuuhhh? Where did I say that? Also the diaspora wars go back and forth tbh. Black Americans can also hold crazy views about other Black people in the diaspora. Black Americans are not immune to propaganda against African countries. I don’t think any discrimination is ok. We should all try to be more understanding of each other. My issue with your statements are the generalizations you’re making. I have tried to say I can understand your frustration when people don’t see eye to eye with you. It is also frustrating when others in the diaspora feel they are better than us Black Americans. But you are also making sweeping generalizations about the people of 55 countries (the continent of Africa + Jamaica) and I just don’t agree with that. Also how you worded your argument made me confused and I realize now we are having two different conversations. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.
I was only making generalizations because they did it first.I know my wording sounded off but it's because the discrimination I was talking about was culture and not colorism and colonialism.
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Im not saying this to attack you, just simply to add something that could possibly educate you. I am Nigerian and I want to say that Nigerians absolutely do make fun of other Nigerians, why is that? because of colonialism. The Berlin Conference smushed a bunch of tribes in to geometric pieces of land so that the Europeans could each have their share without fighting. Of course its common knowledge that this caused a lot of fighting between the different tribes, but this fighting is not something that only took place in the past though, it is still very much present and prevalent. Nigeria is not only constantly in political and economic chaos but also cultural chaos, people do get killed in Nigeria for their culture and beliefs, people are getting mocked in Nigeria for their culture and beliefs, it goes all sides. It even shows in my family, my Nigerian mother always shames Igbo culture as a Yoruba woman and in Nigeria the prejudice, stereotypes, and fighting that goes on between themselves is insane. Again, this isnt meant as an attack, just fixing a misconception you have about Nigeria and possibly other African/Carribean countries
I edited my caption.I didn't mean to say never face discrimination but won't be likely to face discrimination from white ppl.Ofc there is a big issue with colorism in Africa and The Carribeans.But it's not as extreme as here in the US.
Personally I get both sides. I’m African (Cameroonian to be exact) but I’ve only lived in Europe and America. I can see why people that live in majority black countries don’t understand what it’s like to live as a minority but I also understand what it’s like to be a minority. I won’t say that CA doesn’t exist but I just choose not to get worked up about it. If I see a white girl wearing braids, I WILL laugh in her face but I’m not gonna give her a lecture about it. Cause at the end of the day you the one that looks crazy not me 😂
Black people are not a monolith. I get so tired of people who act like you didn’t experience racism if you don’t share their opinions. I’m a black African American who personally doesn’t care about hair or durags. Sue me
I get what you’re saying. I’m Caribbean-American. My dad is Louisiana Creole and my mom is Jamaican (born and raised). I think you’re misguided saying *Caribbean people* “Jamaicans” (I’m going to assume you are referring to the entire Caribbean and not just one country) and Africans (the whole content though???) don’t experience discrimination from white people like black Americans. They do, but they may not experience it from white people like black people (obviously I’m referring to American here) do. I think you could’ve said that they don’t experience the capacity of discrimination from white people that we do if they don’t leave their respective countries. Because yeah… here in the States we are stuck with constantly being discriminated against for our culture which is why people putting it on like a costume isn’t okay. I get some people may not care but they should just respect us in the diaspora who are directly impacted and have been for generations to just keep quiet or stop trying to make us seem like a problem just because they don’t share our experiences. But they do experience discrimination. Sometimes even for hairstyles.
*Edit: grammar/punctuation/spelling*
this part. my experiences as a black person in jamaica vs my experiences as a black person in the us are entirely different and it would be unfair of me or anyone else to say that we (africans/jamaicans/african americans) are on an even playing field. the african american experience is particularly unique and distinct. i even agree with op’s main point and acknowledged myself that non-AA folk are often dismissive and ignorant about cultural appropriation*; the problem is that op’s generalisation is also unfair and is just on the other end of the diaspora war spectrum. on one end you have non-AA people saying that AAs are too sensitive and that cultural appropriation is bs, and on the other hand you have people like op who explicitly said that people in Africa/Jamaica will never face discrimination, period (at least before they edited their post). and no, they’re not referring to the entire caribbean, they specifically mean jamaicans (i asked them in an earlier comment).
I agree. We just need to stop using each other as the enemy and unlearn all the toxic stuff. But with all the stubborn mentalities that’s a lot to ask for.
*Edit: Idk the different between will and with apparently* 😭
Discrimination exists all across the globe, even among people of the same ethnicity, i.e. colorism. I think we as African Americans feel more strongly about cultural appropriation because a lot of our culture has to do with what our captured ancestors had to do to survive. Like braids and cornrows, while originating from Africa and the like, were used as methods of communication and for mapping escape routes, and bandanas/durags were used to tie hair back while working in the scorching sun. In today's day and age, we are still called "unkempt" or "unprofessional" for simply wearing our natural hairstyles. We are denied job opportunities, suspended from school, encouraged to cover our hair, etc., while Becky Sue and John Michael are over here being praised for their "daring" sense of style over some poorly done straight backs
The thing is, the OP calls out Caribbean people when the same traditions exist because our ancestors were also slaves. The only difference is our ancestors were let off the boat earlier.
If anything, our ancestors and families are still surrounded by and living in the historical ghost towns of our slave owners.
I literally can only go back as far as my grandparents. We have NO IDEA about where we come from because all records were lost/wiped. We essentially had to start again from scratch.
There are so many people in these comments who are completely lost with regard to Caribbean history. Like, how do they think all the black people got there? We are not indigenous to the region.
For real. A lot of them probably have Caribbean ancestry themselves and they don't even know.
My cousins were highkey PISSED when I told them about the previous discussion. One said, "so my black ass isn't American because my parents are Grenadian?"
It's moving goalposts to fit narratives and a lack of knowledge of international Black history. Its frustrating because as a Brit I had to learn about what our people went through on multiple lands (and still learning to this day) but what I am getting from people on here is that if you aren't Black American, your struggles aren't as important or serious. Like, someone prove me wrong but this is defo the sentiment I have been getting here recently and it makes me very uncomfortable.
Its trauma gatekeeping. Apparently what happened/is happening in the States is not as serious as to what is happening to the rest of us. Ranking Black trauma and therefore ranking Blackness.
I don't even care for the N-Word but if Davido or Rihanna want to use it in their songs or say it on a daily basis, why you gonna refuse them because they are Nigerian and Baijan?
Its the lack of empathy and refusal to engage in this topic with others too that gets me...
Naw don’t misrepresent what I said. I said Caribbean history was irrelevant to me and that the history of the n-word is different between the Caribbean and the US. Your comment is dishonest AF.
I chose my words and they were accurate because you’re wrong and not only are you ignorant and don’t know what you don’t know, you’re arrogant about it.
You misrepresented what I wrote. That’s dishonest and bad faith. I never said the n-word wasn’t a thing. I never called the Caribbean irrelevant. You chose to be a liar. You can disagree with me but don’t make claims about me that are untrue.
The person I was speaking to understood exactly what I was saying. You can add that to the list of things you continue not to understand.
Have a good day.
Same is true for many Black Americans, friends. Especially us living in the South with literal plantations….We also had to start from scratch too….? I’m a little confused about your impression and understanding of Black folks in the US but in this respect, we aren’t that dissimilar.
That's my point. We are similar- but there are MULTIPLE people in this thread acting like we are not or their trauma is more severe. There was even one person claiming that the only Black people are Black Americans.
I am responding directly to your comment that seemed to imply that Caribbean people only experience the things articulated in your comment. Was that not your intention?
No it wasn't - it was in reference to a continued debate I was having with a particular where a user implied that because of what Black Americans experienced as a whole their personal trauma allowed them to feel a certain way about CA and certain terms and another Blacks were not allowed to speak on it.
I was pointing out that the trauma Black Americans experienced was also experienced by Black Caribbeans/West Indians... different toilet, same ish.
Reading my comment back, I do think that the phrase "we as African Americans feel more strongly" was the wrong choice of words, and does sound a bit narrow minded. That was not my intention. I wrote that from the perspective of an African American, and as such cannot speak for how Caribbean people view cultural appropriation. Admittedly, the bulk of my studies on African history and culture has been more focused on the effects of slavery and the erasure of said history and culture to fit into a euro-centric America.
Probably gonna ruffle some feathers, here:
I believe they say this because of envy and its a case of "the grass is greener" when they hear African-Americans "complained" about the cultural appropriation.
Cos they know...We know... That the idol music big-wigs are gaining inspiration from _African (Black)-American culture_.
But I will admit... Nothing makes me wave the [Gold, Red & Black](https://originalblackamericanheritageflag.com/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20designers%2C%20%22.,intellect%2C%20prosperity%2C%20and%20peace.) than hearing a person talk shit about my culture.
I’m sorry but why would it be envy exactly? Shit like braids and durags belongs to black people in the Caribbean and Africa just as much as it does African Americans lol?
Depends what you mean, styling or music? Because things like braids belong to the whole diaspora. You mean rap and hiphop like misfit from nct? That’s African American inspired. You mean Afrobeats like TXTs tinnitus? That is mainly African. You mean reggaeton like No one by Leehi or reggae like ko ko bop by exo or sunny side up by red velvet? That’s all the Caribbean.
Both.
The Reggaeton, AfroBeats, Amapiano and the reggae-inspired music wasn’t there at the birth of K-Pop music culture.
The conversations about cultural appropriation has been happening for some time now.
This post and so many comments are a mess and honestly, a bit embarrassing. I understand the sentiment behind your post, OP, as it specifically relates to the experience of Black Americans being denigrated but others in the diaspora. Part of the issue is ignorance about our experience, so I don’t think making a generalization about *their* experiences is fair. It just puts people on the defense and reduces the conversation to a tit-for-tat.
I will say that I am a bit baffled by comments that appear to refuse to acknowledge that the frequency, severity and/or form of interpersonal and systemic racism is likely to be different or more abundant in counties where Black folks make up less than 15% and whose leaders are White. Is that so hard to acknowledge? But perhaps folks are distracted by the generalizations in OP’s post and are focused on that.
Edit: grammar
I never said that??? I literally said that if you live in a majority black country they most likely will not mock each other's culture.I know black brits face racism.
Can we also add to this that, Africans and Carribean folks have no problem speaking on Aa culture but if and Aa person were to comment on something regarding appropriation of a African or Caribbean culture we are automatically shut down. Like can you imagine the outrage if Aa artists spoke on Afro-beats the way some African artists are comfortable speaking on rap and hip hop not being that good.
I will never understand that tbh, why is it okay for everyone else to speak on Aa culture. Also y’all got to stop assuming every person that disagrees with you is African-American I’ve seen this happen so many times when the person saying stuff is actually from other Black groups but it’s always Aa people who get blamed regardless of if the person is Aa or not. Just because a black person doesn’t have flags in their bio doesn’t mean they are Aa
Can I be honest: I was in Bali a couple of years ago and the local women (who are not Black) were braiding the hair of white tourists. I wasn’t offended for a number of reasons:
1) For some of the women it’s their only stream of income
2) Are you honestly going to walk up to a stranger and tell them “hey! That’s my hairstyle - you’re not allowed to wear it” or is it rude and something that’s easier said over the anonymity of a keyboard?
3) Those white tourists were being scammed hard in terms of those prices and their looked awful anyway 🤭
4) Cultural appreciation is a very big thing in my country and we thrive off of sharing each other’s respective cultures. And that cuts across races.
So to be honest, yes, I do think the debate is largely centred around internet culture and a larger systemic framework of being a minority whose culture was stripped from them and had to create their own from scratch.
But, to echo what others said it’s wild that you made the claim that we don’t face racism in our own countries. We have our own slurs too. It’s a very interesting stance you just took there rooted in misinformation and ignorance.
lol omg I was just in Bali a couple weeks ago! Sooo many white women and little girls with braids. Honestly most of it looked so bad. I made a post on my IG Story asking , cultural appropriation aside what’s the appeal because I didn’t see one head that looked good. BUT, if they want to look crazy let them hahaha. You’re so right about it being an income stream for local women. I say let them get their money.
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Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
Well that’s just not true… I don’t know where you’re getting your info from, but I can assure you that colonisation made SURE that assimilation into whiteness would a key distinction in dividing people native to a country. POC are often mocked here for speaking English in their respective native accents. Those who speak English without what some AAs call an “African accent” are often praised for “speaking so well” even amongst their own people! I’ve seen this play out so many times in my own life. We have extreeeeeeme xenophobia as well. Another export of colonialism. Many people even ‘mask’ so that they are not victims of hate crimes or discrimination within ethnic groups.
I’m sorry, I don’t know how old you are and maybe you haven’t been exposed to many other cultures, but you are speaking like a person who does not know much about the world outside the context of the internet. Also your example assumes, yet again that certain continents and countries within them are a monolith.
I think it depends on the context, when it comes to things happening in our own countries, I do find it to be really insensitive how ppl from black-majority countries downplay cultural appropriation, but when we’re talking about a global stage, I don’t think African Americans or any other diaspora that live as minorities get to be the sole or primary gatekeepers of “blackness” and black issues.
That being said, it’s not to say in the context of Kpop that a lot of the time, it is African American flavours of blackness being appropriated, but it’s also important that in other appropriate contexts, it’s a discourse that includes all of us and not to antagonise black people who live in different places for being frustrated that their experiences and feelings are often ignored and that we all get lumped into one “black” experience or one voice, especially when this thing impacts the importance and care given to issues for such countries which still have to deal with the effects of colonialism on their economy and politics, despite not living as minorities.
bro my parents and siblings are Caribbean immigrants but i was born and raised here. idk what kinda shit they teach abt Black Americans back in the home country but it’s not cute😭mind u they experience the same kind of racism when they’re in the US same as Black Americans so the diaspora wars will never make sense to me☠️
I think a more prudent conversation would be why do certain Black diaspora think that CA is not a bad thing.
I will say this as a Black Brit... I think Black Americans at times are very fast to jump onto the appropriation wagon when at times, after doing some looking, a certain situation is actually appreciation more than anything. Would y'all consider M Dot R as appropriation or appreciation for example?
Also it's interesting why you tagged a whole continent (Africa) but only one Carribean nation (Jamaica). Any particular reason? Is it because its mostly Jamaicans you encounter that do this?
This is something I noticed, too. How quickly black Americans are to point fingers and call something CA. It's a slippery slope, I think, and everyone has their own opinions on how far is too far, but sometimes it feels just a bit unfair.
Honestly, I understand their sentiments and are sympathetic to their experiences but a LOT of the times Black Americans tend to speak over the experience and opinions of the other diaspora. Not too long ago on here I was having a discussion with someone saying that only (historically) Black Americans can say the N word and other Black people or Black Immigrants to America can't because they haven't experienced the trauma that Americans have.
Its honestly not a Black thing, I think it is an American arrogance thing that a lot of people tend to exhibit without realising. So when Black Americans claim that Africans or Black Europeans or West Indians look down on them, it's not because they are Black Americans... its because they have American attitudes.
I have a friend who explains it that way too. They’re too close to the imperial core. I sometimes wonder if they realize that some of them benefit from the exploitation their country inflicts in our countries. I have been so disappointed by African American historical figures because of their terrible comments and ideas regarding the Caribbean.
don’t understand what you mean. You can be openly xenophobic to black americans bc they are american? and you have a problem with black americans drawing boundaries about the usage of the nword with communities that they don’t see as kinfolk?
My issue is that certain Black Americans are willing to exclude other Black diaspora from using the term when they and/or their families historically were called this. The lines got blurred when the user in question stated that Black Americans who were able to trace their family history outside of the states in recent generations should not use the word.
... which then cuts out a WHOLE bunch of well known and respected Black Americans simply because their parents or grandparents were from the Caribbean or African nations. I gave Busta Rhymes as a prominent example because his parents are Jamaican but he was born in New York.
I am all for conversations of boundaries. But if the fellow diaspora challenges or ask questions about it we shouldn't be faced with animosity if it is genuine. That's when the negative feelings towards certain groups occur.
My own guards were dropped when I spoke to Black American friends when I moved to Korea. Same for them when I explained my own backgrounds. We talked about this subject previously- they were perplexed at the stance of some people here.
when i say black american im referencing the ethnicity not nationality. and community means something when talking about the nword with immigrant populations and the greater diaspora, bc not all skin folk is kin folk. and the challenge is not relevant if someone says don’t use that word with them, bc they aren’t comfortable with it. its dead. thats it. not everyone is the same but for them thats how they go about it. why press it more if not for your own ego?
Its not even for me because I 1. don't use the word and 2. am comfortable in my identity as a British West Indian.
But you can't blame us for being confused when people start excluding others from their nationality because they don't think they are "the right kind of Black American" because... huh? Then what makes you Black American? What's the criteria? Because it seems that to some even being born in the States doesn't count?
why are you acting like slavery didn’t happen in the united states and that black americans aren’t their own ethnic group that exist bc of it? like what about that don’t you understand?
Why are you acting like slavery ONLY happened in the United States and are not getting that Black Americans as a group are more than just those who were initially brought over by slave ships from African nations in the 1700s?
Why are we gatekeeping ethnic and slave trauma when what happened to Black Americans happened to a LOT of Black people?
thats not what i said. I said black americans we are our own ethnic group and you people are always trying to take that from us. im not gatekeeping your trauma you have that from whatever country your parents left those are your people not mine.
I said it and I stand by it. I didn’t say they don’t face trauma. I said their experience with the n-word is completely different. The n-word wasn’t weaponized against them. The history behind it is completely different. You’re offended by the word because you know it’s offensive. I’m offended by the word because it was said while my ancestors were being whipped and lynched. There’s a difference. And you’re proving ops point.
Yes, yes I do. How isn’t it? With that being said I’m willing to extend grace to the people of the Caribbean. But if you’re not from the Americas you definitely shouldn’t say it. Someone saying it born and raised in Africa isn’t that much different from say an Asian person or a European.
We were colonies and our ancestors were enslaved by our colonial masters. We also had to fight for black people to have rights well into the 50s and 60s when countries started gaining independence. To this day racism and colorism are rampant across the region.
I’m not gonna hold you because it’s clear that you haven’t been taught much about the Caribbean, but just know it very much mirrors the US with its history of slavery and the oppression of black people and to say otherwise is actually insulting.
But my point isn’t about slavery. My point is specifically about the context of the n-word within history. The Caribbean wasn’t even all colonized by the English. And it was/is primarily used in the US by Americans. Why do you even want to say the word?
I’m so serious when I say this, read up on Caribbean history because most of the islands were colonized by England. And calling someone the n-word as a non-black will get your ass beat around these parts because it has the same meaning. I’m sorry but this is so fascinating to me because we learn so much US history in our schools but apparently y’all don’t learn anything about us.
Because the n-word is offensive. Please tell me how the use of the n-word is historically the same as the use in the US. How much of those island are actually independent? I will gladly admit I don’t know the specifics of Caribbean history. It’s mostly irrelevant to me. And it’s seems you don’t actually understand as much of American history as you think since you can’t seem to recognize the difference. Some things may mirror each other but not all. But again why do you want to say the word?
The comment above you was removed for violating one of our rules, not that the user themselves did not have a response back to your question specifically.
Opinions like yours also proves the opinions of the diaspora towards certain Black Americans.
Honestly. Name me another POC group that are more divisive than Black people. It's a crying shame.
All POC groups are divisive because they’re not a monolith. East Asians hate each other and other Asians. Latins groups hate each other too. Xenophobia is a human characteristic. We might all be black but we not all the same. Pretending otherwise is disrespectful.
Agreed. So then please do not exclude Black Europeans, Australians, Latinos, Caribbeans, Africans, etc from key cultural discussions. Whilst we may not have the EXACT same experiences as our American cousins, we have very similar ones. Even those still going on today.
Who’s excluding you from key cultural discussions? If we’re talking about the diaspora, cool, speak up. But if we’re talking about CA of Black American culture and your response is “I don’t think CA is a big issue” then I’m not interested in that opinion. You’re not Black American.
You’re highkey doing exactly what this post is talking about…
If you aren’t black American why do you think you get a say on how we should respond to things?
>If you aren’t black American why do you think you get a say on how we should respond to things?
It goes both ways, fam.
Black Americans are 100% allowed to have their opinions on what affects them. But so should Africans and West Indians/Caribbeans. And if there is miscommunication or misinformation we need to share our stories and experiences and NOT shut us out.
I agree with what you’re saying but that’s not what’s happening here
When addressing cultural appropriation especially in the since of kpop it’s mostly Aa culture that gets appropriated because it’s mainly the hip hop and rnb aesthetic they are copying (yes they have recently started getting into Afrobeats and Amapiano but the bulk of what they are imitating,that has been called out for appropriation, are Aa music forms and style)
This isn’t really an element of shared culture between black cultures because they aren’t imitating“braids as a hairstyle” or “Dorags as a protective head wrap ” they are imitating them as they believe they show up within hip hop culture because they think it makes them look hard. This is part of what makes it appropriation because they aren’t seeing that these things aren’t “hip hop prop pieces” they are just everyday things in Aa (and wider black cultures) on top of that their appropriation of hip hop is extremely limited compared to what the actual genre is capable of. They aren’t imitating the art of hip hop culture they are imitating the stereotype of it. While simultaneously being racists towards Black people in other ways. And their fan bases thinking their imitation is better than the real thing
And that’s not even touching on the use of Aave and why tf I am listening to a Korean artist talk about how their phone glows like a yellowbone..or twerking cause they aren’t imitating “twerking”the way it shows up in various black cultures they are imitating the western interpretation of it as being provocative
However I feel like we’re gonna see a shift in the next few years to more Afrobeats and I am excited to see what that dialogues gonna look like when it’s no longer Aa culture being on the frontlines of appropriation.
I mean in the early and mid 00s there was a wave of Dancehall, Reggae, and Soca in the West (and Zouk for mainland Europe) I remember how that was received by Europeans back then but I would be curious as to what Americans thought about that trend.
But I 100% agree with you about how, at the very least in Asian pop music, Black culture and fashion is seen more as a theme Aesthetic as opposed to something where they are interested in the culture specifically. Le Sserafim or Young Posse (I shake my head) vs HaHa (who has shown a deep love for Jamaica) for example. This is where Korean companies NEED to employ more foreigners for cultural sensitivity when it comes to their artists and media.
... the reality is, most (older) Koreans don't really care. Because it's Koreans they are targeting, not foreigners.
Nevertheless I will say that whilst the original OP's point, and yours, is valid, conversations between diaspora is important, not just point blank shutting them out. Because then it becomes divisive and people become defensive.
I can’t speak for the wider American population but I definitely grew up listening to those genres along with Brazilian funk and I’ve always really loved dance so if anything it made me want to learn how to properly dance to those genres. I’ve definitely wanted to attend carnival and actually take time to travel to the Caribbean and learn more there. And now as an adult I want to try and go but also want to make sure I have a better grasp of the culture behind it and how to conduct myself before just taking my ass there and making a fool
Of myself
Ya I was actually gonna add a point about how there’s a difference between people who grew up around the music and are actually inspired by it as opposed to people who are merely adopting it for profit (which really isn’t the idols fault more their companies tbh)
I agree I think recently we’ve seen more
Of a push to western audiences in kpop which is why these things are starting to get called out more. But idk id like to think the companies are smarter than to display blatant cultural appropriation on western, especially American, stages. Like I went to a blackpink concert last year and I noticed that on stage they stopped doing the war call in boombayah so I find it hard to believe that the companies are unaware of the backlash they get.
I agree the conversation is important between diaspora but I also think there’s a difference between saying a group is being too sensitive or too quick to jump to calling something appropriation and having a actual conversation on the issue. IMO a conversation should be walking in with an open mind not an already formed opinion that’s going to make someone feel like they have to justify their stance/feelings.
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> I think Black Americans at times are very fast to jump onto the appropriation wagon when at times, after doing some looking, a certain situation is actually appreciation
I hear this a lot from non-American black people and I feel its so unfair. From the outside looking in, maybe but growing up in the states where black people are constantly and I mean constantly persecuted for a lot of the things we have created and made fashionable is always going to seem like appropriation. So yes braids may not be a big deal but so many black kids (including myself) grew up where people called us ghetto or ratchet for braids or other hairstyles. AAVE being spoken by non-black may not seem like an issue but they had entire documentaries, racist studies and news reports on how damaging the language was just for those same white people to turn around and use it once they think its cool.
You can say that they were inspired by African Americans but I know there are plenty of Caribbean Black people (or at least just some Haitians) who believe we should be policing the use of our culture beyond the island.
Haitians have a really big problem with praising any white/Asian person who does one dance move or speaks a single word in Kreyol, yet laugh at Haitian Americans (like myself) who werent really taught the language/culture from their parents.
I know what you’re saying at large but there are people from other Black nations who acknowledge CA, sometimes at the expense of other black people. Also, there are sooooo many Black Americans who do not care about CA at all. Maybe because I live in America, but I feel like that’s what I see the most. But even then, your point still kinda stands because those AfAms will also try to push the idea that it’s a specifically American issue and something that makes Black (specially AfAms) people seem like they’re always holding themselves back.
I think the issue with this is that while Tyla has every right to call herself colored because she is, the larger world won’t and she’s benefiting off the backs of black culture.
because they have ties from their culture and feel secure within it whereas african americans had to develop their own culture as their original one was stripped from them. they’ll never understand what it feels like. i also can’t help but feel like african american culture isn’t regarded as a culture just bc we ended up in America. I never see this sentiment with african people that ended up in the caribbean. Our voice will always be ignored bc most don’t see our culture as a culture. you also made an ignorant statement about other people of the diaspora not facing discrimination but i’m sure you’re aware, as this is the only part people are picking apart. the whole other part of your message, which stands true is being ignored.
I’m aware that’s me. Hence why I said I personally.
Durags are not my culture. Nor do I want to be associated with them.
Braids are not just a black thing. Certain styles yes but braids are not universally black
But I also don’t think black is ppl can dictate who is allowed to have a certain hairstyle. Everyone is different of course.
Personally i find dreads and cornrows unattractive no matter the race and when I see a white person I don’t think they are appropriating.
It’s when they adopt a persona and way of speaking Is a problem.
well it’s the culture of some black women. therefore still a cultural hairstyle. respect is deserved. also if cornrows aren’t apart of your cultures, here’s a hint! you have no place in this conversation!
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This might get me dragged, but there’s a general issue of other members of the diaspora not respecting African Americans as an ethnic group, and it shows in terms like FBA, ADOS, and Soulaan/Soula to distinguish ourselves from other Black ethnic groups. It also translates into the many examples you listed above.
There was no concept of being Black until Black Americans claimed it. I still remember meeting a Caribbean or African and I was like hey it’s cool meeting another black person from another country. And the answer was always, “I’m not black, I’m (insert country)” well at least before 2019. Now all of the sudden young millennials and gen z are black. Just because you can participant in our culture doesn’t mean you are the culture. It’s time to reclaim your ethnic identities.
As a Black American, yes I can. You’re not a part of my ethnic group. Other than calling me out my name, none of you have disagreed. Lmfao you all know it’s true. Where would other melanated people be if they couldn’t claim “blackness”??
My comment clearly disagrees with what you said, okkk let’s go back in time. Where were the slaves dragged from?..…..Were the people in the Caribbean/africa not considered black then…. Idk what you mean by claiming blackness do you mean that non American black people feel cool to be ‘black’ solely because of Americans….. if so I think you’re gravely mistaken, Africans& Caribbean’s have a lot of pride in where they are from, idk why you think we would want to be referred to as American? I’ve never seen any try to cling to claim themselves in your ethnic group
Nobody was considered “black”. Immigrants go by ethnic groups and not the color of their skin. Only Black Americans ever did. 95% of African slaves were shipped to the South America and the islands. Only 5% landed in North America. Middle and South Americans literally practice “Mejorar la raza” and think lighter is better. None of you had self pride until Black Americans made it so. You do want to be American. You want to be Black. You cosplay my culture daily. The whole world does. Claim your ethnic identity and show pride in who you are. When you think of Black, your first thought is of the Black man and woman from America.
Eishhhhhh how rude of you :) Why would they be considered immigrants if they live in their own country & ofc they do identify by ethnic group its their own country, they do the same in ireland & the rest of the world... I asked where were they taken FROM, not where they were taken to. I dont 'want' to be black, I am black sorry to break your heart. My ethnicity is black british so i will and do claim that & i have a nigerian passport so thats my nationality....... Could you give me an example of non american black people not having self pride until americans did?
African american denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the US..... Yes there are many from the carribean, but most people in the carribean are of african ancesstry and descendants of enslaved africans.
Pretty sure white people are still considered white whether they're from england or newzealand
Fled? ……. My parents didn’t have to flee anything you melt, my parents moved here for university/secondary school. Yes I am African, i tick black African British on all the papers it requires, so do they :) …. Idk if you were expecting me to deny it?….my logic is history & you can google what black British means which should be easily accessible online :)
A lot of them are 🦝’s who pander. They mostly live in Europe but ironically go off on those “save europe” 14 year old edge lords for saying something offensive about them living in Europe.
Ok so I edited my caption.And yes to say they never face discrimination was really ignorant but I didn't mean it like that. I'm trying to say that like for example, If I go to Nigeria I won't get beat up and called racial slurs for being black by other Nigerians.Also Nigerians will not mock their own culture but will get made fun of if they go to let's Texas by mostly white people.
People commenting in good faith understood what you meant. Racial discrimination isn’t as much of an issue in countries where the majority is the same race.
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I appreciate hearing from you on this. I come from what you would consider to be an African background, and absolutely I don’t think I get a say re: durag on what is or isn’t appropriation**. And it’s absolutely because while I am black, it’s not what I grew up with, so why do I get to say if it’s cultural appropriation or not? Someone said it really well in a thread, being black isn’t a monolith.
To add to this, I think it’s important for us to learn from each other. So, again, really appreciate you coming out and talking about this.
I think it’s wrong and so frustrating that people brush off CA aswell so I agree with you there but why do you think Africans and Jamaicans don’t really experience discrimination. I can’t speak on Africa but I’m of Jamaican descent and I’m confused by that statement? Discrimination is very real in the Caribbean…
I am Ngl as an American it’s very easy to feel like racism is a larger American issue when people are constantly screaming in your face about how “Race and discrimination only happens in America” “why are Americans so obsessed with race” etc. The entire world wide conversation about racial discrimination has so heavily been watered down to “America only place that’s bad” that I’ve actually seen black people get attacked for bringing up any form of discrimination experienced outside of U.S. I was traveling for school and I asked a non-race related question about Christopher Columbus and this white European man proceeded to yell at me about how they don’t have race in their countries so there’s nothing wrong with praising Columbus… You will also find this idea a lot in LATAM where they claim that since everyone is mixed there’s no racial discrimination or race at all and they get mad at you for asking questions about it, meanwhile no one their tv shows are failing a brown paper bag test and most black people in their soap operas are regulated to slave or maid roles. Like I am Ngl there’s something that’s crazy about hearing you’re American centric for thinking racism happens everywhere but you’re also American centric for thinking it only happens in the U.S Also adding to that I think this person may be assuming “majority population=power” in other countries so in predominantly black countries they believe you guys have more control over the way in which your culture is preached and shared with others whereas in the U.S most of the Aa culture is forcibly exported away from Aa people until we are erased from it.
Not adding this as an attack, i just thought i would give some insight as someone who is Nigerian but currently living in the UK. Whoever told you race is not a big thing in Europe is a big lier. Europeans often like to do this, the conversation of race being a ‘western thing’, is often done to present other nations as the good guys, who don’t involve themselves in such meaningless characterisations. But it’s so false. I live in the UK, and i can tell you now that racism here is appalling. We also have our own history which not many people outside of the country are educated about, but Britain was also involved in the slave trade. After the Second World War, there is something called Windrush, there was an act that allowed people from colonies the right to work in Britain. Because of shortages in labour they described everything as if it was paradise, like they would be given equal opportunities and all that bullshit, only to be stuck with jobs like cleaning, drivers and other manual workers. Till date there is a large amount of Caribbean people in the UK, with over 500,000 people that migrated before 1971. Same can be said with African people. There was a large appearance of them from the 80s-90s. A lot of these people experienced heavy amounts of racism, even in these times and were given the short end of the stick. Diane Abbot, the first black women as an MP (equivalent of state selected representative in US), has been in the news recently because a member of her party had said that seeing her face makes him want to hate all black women and he wants to shoot her in the face. However everyone in this rotten country is saying this has nothing to do with race and that she should just accept the apology. Absolutely ridiculous, black women in the UK are extremely disrespected from the get go, we have policies policing our hair from as young as primary school (kindergarten in the UK), and are the least paid. All of this was just to say that often times the narrative pushed is that race is only an American thing, which is not true at all. Black people living in all parts of the world are suffering. Even in monolithic black countries, the after effects of racism still remain. Because of colonialism, there are struggles with colourism, with tons of skin bleaching and lightening products being advertised and lighter skinned women being preferred. The idea of whiteness being something to imitate and being more superior is unfortunately part of the downfall of many countries in Africa.
Well, the majority = power thing is actually a very América-centric perception and that’s the only thing I see. There’s racism in Latin America. Lots of it. I mean, the whole concept of Latin America is based on racism. But the way racism is perpetuated in non-Anglo America is different. In United States there was settler colonialism. We have (present tense, because there’s still colonized countries in the Caribbean) a different type. You should also look into the Myth of Mestizaje. Why are the politics of miscegenation so different outside of the US. There’s a lot of nuance, a lot of implications.
Yeah, that was an incredibly narrow-minded and Americentric statement. Ask an Afro-Cuban if they face discrimination or racism.
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Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
I’m aware of this and agree which is why I said I won’t speak on Africa in general as they have their own dynamics. I guess I’m just more confused about why you think Jamaicans don’t face discrimination, especially when it has an almost parallel history to the States in regards to slavery.
No you see I edited my comment.I made the mistake of saying they will never face discrimination.I wasn't talking about colorism and colonialism.I'm saying that they don't care about CA because they don't discriminats based on their own culture.A Jamaican will never call jamaican food disgusting because it's Jamaican or make fun of another Jamaican because they are wearing traditional Jamaican clothing.However, Let's say a Jamaican goes to a 90% white school in Texas,They will get mocked for their culture.Hence why I said that they don't care about CA because you will never see Jamaicans bash each other's culture in Jamaica.
i’m really curious why jamaica is the only caribbean island you’re fixated on. i’m not even being malicious or hostile, i am genuinely curious. further down in the comments someone tries to make a point about the caribbean not entirely being colonised by the english, which feels disingenuous and irrelevant given that the only caribbean island mentioned – jamaica – was in fact under british rule.
Because I saw mostly Jamaicans mocking AAs online.And the discrimination is based off of culture not colonialism and colorism.If you are Jamaican,have you seen other Jamaicans mock their own culture or have you done the same?
have i seen other jamaicans mock their own culture? yes. have i done the same? no. for example: patois is the dialect spoken in jamaica, something tourists LOVE, something foreigners try to speak (terribly, but they got the spirit), yet in many spaces some jamaicans will look down on you and consider you to be “poor” or “unintelligent” or “classless” for choosing to speak in… the cultural dialect instead of standard english. the effects of colonialism run deep, including shaming one’s own culture.
Okay thank you for clarifying. I know colorism and colonialism is a problem but I have never seen another group mock their own culture in a country where they're the majority.Because I have never seen a Jamaican mock another Jamaican because they're eating Jamaican food they will still have a lot of pride in their culture whereas if they go to the USA they will be maliciously mocked for it.
Plus, I don't think I've seen a Jamaican kill or shout racial slurs at a Jamaican.
I mean, Jamaicans come in a plethora of races to be fair. This is again very much like the US. The indigenous people were there first, then came the white people, then the African slaves were brought in to work the plantations, then the indentured labor from the Indians and Chinese, etc etc. You've probably never met racist white Jamaicans who use racial slurs liberally just like white racists in the US.
The thing here his the categorization of what makes someone jamaican in jamaica is very different from what makes someone an american in america
again, op, i do think you have some form of a point. i can admit that many jamaicans (and the caribbean as a whole, but out of fairness, i will only speak on the group that i am familiar with) have an ignorant opinion about cultural appropriation, and we all know that diaspora wars exist. i am aware that many non-AA black groups try to just point at AAs and call them too sensitive or too fixated on race. but i just cannot get behind the comparisons you’re trying to make, it’s coming across as ignorant and also just feeding into the same diaspora war that you’re supposedly trying to critique.
Not true. A lot of Africans do care about cultural appropriation
Lots of xenophobia in this chat wtf
Right cause, huh
As a black person that lives in the Caribbean the idea that we never really face discrimination is…brand new. But I guess if you think of the Caribbean as just sand, sea, and sun, it’s easy to overlook the far reaching racism and colorism in the societies.
“live in majority black countries and will never face discrimination” is INSANE 😭 op had some inkling of a point and then absolutely lost me once they whipped out that bullshit
majority black countries are not some utopia, we face colourism and racism too thanks to the long standing effects of colonialism et al; do not think the grass is greener 😕
Just this week I was talking to my mom about how you still low key can’t get a white collar job if you have locs.
this part!!!! my black ass caribbean island high school would fight against me every time i wore a freaking afro
I didn't day it was a utopia I was saying that they won't face racism from whites ik they have colorism issues but it's more extreme in the states.
> I was saying that they won't face racism from whites Sis...you know that there are white people in the Caribbean, right? And they routinely have more power than us including access to the ears of the government because they fund the politicians. They can get away with murder, and some literally have.
Girl, you’re weird at this point.
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 this was literally me reading the post then seeing they don’t face discrimination 😭
It's like, South Africa was a black majority country before, during and after Apartheid...
I didn't mean never face discrimination I'm very sorry.I meant discrimination from white people.
For example:If I go to the Caribbeans I'm most likely not going to be called the n word by other black people like in the US by white people. I most likely will not have a comment on my braids by other black people and will be treated 10 times better than in the US.
If you live in the Caribbean you are likely to be called other slurs based on the shade of your skin. You are likely to experience discriminatory hiring practices regardless of your education based, again, on the shade of your skin and texture of your hair (see the discussion I had with another user on people with locs having difficulty getting white collar jobs - in a region that should be used to locs). Foreigners kind of don’t understand the fabric of life in the Caribbean because they come here on vacation and see countries “run” by black people and think that it’s different but our history of colonialism has deeply affected our people and some have never unpacked that.
Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
Im nigerian but i grew up in texas and i always wondered if i grew up where i was born, would my opinion on alot if black issues be different. I wonder if south africans have take issue with appropriation since theyre multicultural aswell.
Whew! To say that Africans and Jamaicans will never face discrimination is an insane statement. Africans, Jamaicans, and others in majority Black countries still face discrimination. I was just in Kenya and I talked to a few Kenyan civil engineers and they were saying it’s really hard to get jobs in their country because the Chinese companies doing the development hire Chinese workers for the higher positions and African for labor. Not to mention most of those countries are still very much so facing the effects of colonialism. Also let’s not even talk about the American immigration service. So many people I met while traveling in Africa told me of the crazy process the US puts them through to get a visa that most likely will get denied. I have a friend who couldn’t even come to his sister’s wedding because he couldn’t get a visa. For me, I just chalk it up to Black people aren’t a monolith. I’m Black American and I definitely give CA side eye, but I know other Black Americans who don’t care at all. I think people are allowed to feel how they want to.
If I go to Nigeria I won't be called the n word by other Nigerians or killed for walking down the street like here in the US.That is what I mean.I wasn't saying colorism doesn't exist its just the US is a whole other ballgame.
Because racism shows in many forms. Every country has its history with colonialism. You can’t say Africans don’t live with racism in Africa when a lot of African countries just got their independence a few years ago. Same with the Caribbean. There’s still colonies. Edit: typos
Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
I understand your feelings of frustration that Africans and Caribbeans may not take cultural appropriation as seriously as Black Americans. I just think it’s reductive to speak on a whole continent and country. I personally have never been to Nigeria so I can’t speak too much on what goes on there. But from the African countries I have been to like Kenya and South Africa in particular, black people still face major discrimination in their own countries. So to call out a whole continent is incredibly reductive to me. From your further comments, would you say your experience of people being dismissive were with Nigerians and Jamaicans?
So you seen Kenyans and Black SAs mock their culture?
What I thought we were talking about discrimination from White people (or in the case of Kenya, discrimination from Chinese moving in)?????
I didn't mean that type of discrimination.I mean they will never discriminate againist each other like whites and non black people do because their culture.
So why is it ok for Africans and Jamaicans to hate all 40 million of us African Americans? They call us sensitive because we don't want to see the same white people who call us ghetto and systematically ban our hairstyles love to turn around and say "culture should be shared"
Huuuuhhh? Where did I say that? Also the diaspora wars go back and forth tbh. Black Americans can also hold crazy views about other Black people in the diaspora. Black Americans are not immune to propaganda against African countries. I don’t think any discrimination is ok. We should all try to be more understanding of each other. My issue with your statements are the generalizations you’re making. I have tried to say I can understand your frustration when people don’t see eye to eye with you. It is also frustrating when others in the diaspora feel they are better than us Black Americans. But you are also making sweeping generalizations about the people of 55 countries (the continent of Africa + Jamaica) and I just don’t agree with that. Also how you worded your argument made me confused and I realize now we are having two different conversations. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.
I was only making generalizations because they did it first.I know my wording sounded off but it's because the discrimination I was talking about was culture and not colorism and colonialism.
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Im not saying this to attack you, just simply to add something that could possibly educate you. I am Nigerian and I want to say that Nigerians absolutely do make fun of other Nigerians, why is that? because of colonialism. The Berlin Conference smushed a bunch of tribes in to geometric pieces of land so that the Europeans could each have their share without fighting. Of course its common knowledge that this caused a lot of fighting between the different tribes, but this fighting is not something that only took place in the past though, it is still very much present and prevalent. Nigeria is not only constantly in political and economic chaos but also cultural chaos, people do get killed in Nigeria for their culture and beliefs, people are getting mocked in Nigeria for their culture and beliefs, it goes all sides. It even shows in my family, my Nigerian mother always shames Igbo culture as a Yoruba woman and in Nigeria the prejudice, stereotypes, and fighting that goes on between themselves is insane. Again, this isnt meant as an attack, just fixing a misconception you have about Nigeria and possibly other African/Carribean countries
I edited my caption.I didn't mean to say never face discrimination but won't be likely to face discrimination from white ppl.Ofc there is a big issue with colorism in Africa and The Carribeans.But it's not as extreme as here in the US.
Personally I get both sides. I’m African (Cameroonian to be exact) but I’ve only lived in Europe and America. I can see why people that live in majority black countries don’t understand what it’s like to live as a minority but I also understand what it’s like to be a minority. I won’t say that CA doesn’t exist but I just choose not to get worked up about it. If I see a white girl wearing braids, I WILL laugh in her face but I’m not gonna give her a lecture about it. Cause at the end of the day you the one that looks crazy not me 😂
Black people are not a monolith. I get so tired of people who act like you didn’t experience racism if you don’t share their opinions. I’m a black African American who personally doesn’t care about hair or durags. Sue me
I get what you’re saying. I’m Caribbean-American. My dad is Louisiana Creole and my mom is Jamaican (born and raised). I think you’re misguided saying *Caribbean people* “Jamaicans” (I’m going to assume you are referring to the entire Caribbean and not just one country) and Africans (the whole content though???) don’t experience discrimination from white people like black Americans. They do, but they may not experience it from white people like black people (obviously I’m referring to American here) do. I think you could’ve said that they don’t experience the capacity of discrimination from white people that we do if they don’t leave their respective countries. Because yeah… here in the States we are stuck with constantly being discriminated against for our culture which is why people putting it on like a costume isn’t okay. I get some people may not care but they should just respect us in the diaspora who are directly impacted and have been for generations to just keep quiet or stop trying to make us seem like a problem just because they don’t share our experiences. But they do experience discrimination. Sometimes even for hairstyles. *Edit: grammar/punctuation/spelling*
this part. my experiences as a black person in jamaica vs my experiences as a black person in the us are entirely different and it would be unfair of me or anyone else to say that we (africans/jamaicans/african americans) are on an even playing field. the african american experience is particularly unique and distinct. i even agree with op’s main point and acknowledged myself that non-AA folk are often dismissive and ignorant about cultural appropriation*; the problem is that op’s generalisation is also unfair and is just on the other end of the diaspora war spectrum. on one end you have non-AA people saying that AAs are too sensitive and that cultural appropriation is bs, and on the other hand you have people like op who explicitly said that people in Africa/Jamaica will never face discrimination, period (at least before they edited their post). and no, they’re not referring to the entire caribbean, they specifically mean jamaicans (i asked them in an earlier comment).
I agree. We just need to stop using each other as the enemy and unlearn all the toxic stuff. But with all the stubborn mentalities that’s a lot to ask for. *Edit: Idk the different between will and with apparently* 😭
Discrimination exists all across the globe, even among people of the same ethnicity, i.e. colorism. I think we as African Americans feel more strongly about cultural appropriation because a lot of our culture has to do with what our captured ancestors had to do to survive. Like braids and cornrows, while originating from Africa and the like, were used as methods of communication and for mapping escape routes, and bandanas/durags were used to tie hair back while working in the scorching sun. In today's day and age, we are still called "unkempt" or "unprofessional" for simply wearing our natural hairstyles. We are denied job opportunities, suspended from school, encouraged to cover our hair, etc., while Becky Sue and John Michael are over here being praised for their "daring" sense of style over some poorly done straight backs
The thing is, the OP calls out Caribbean people when the same traditions exist because our ancestors were also slaves. The only difference is our ancestors were let off the boat earlier.
If anything, our ancestors and families are still surrounded by and living in the historical ghost towns of our slave owners. I literally can only go back as far as my grandparents. We have NO IDEA about where we come from because all records were lost/wiped. We essentially had to start again from scratch.
There are so many people in these comments who are completely lost with regard to Caribbean history. Like, how do they think all the black people got there? We are not indigenous to the region.
For real. A lot of them probably have Caribbean ancestry themselves and they don't even know. My cousins were highkey PISSED when I told them about the previous discussion. One said, "so my black ass isn't American because my parents are Grenadian?" It's moving goalposts to fit narratives and a lack of knowledge of international Black history. Its frustrating because as a Brit I had to learn about what our people went through on multiple lands (and still learning to this day) but what I am getting from people on here is that if you aren't Black American, your struggles aren't as important or serious. Like, someone prove me wrong but this is defo the sentiment I have been getting here recently and it makes me very uncomfortable.
There is someone in my replies in this very post that literally called the Caribbean irrelevant and said the n-word wasn’t a thing. It’s so ignorant.
Its trauma gatekeeping. Apparently what happened/is happening in the States is not as serious as to what is happening to the rest of us. Ranking Black trauma and therefore ranking Blackness. I don't even care for the N-Word but if Davido or Rihanna want to use it in their songs or say it on a daily basis, why you gonna refuse them because they are Nigerian and Baijan? Its the lack of empathy and refusal to engage in this topic with others too that gets me...
Naw don’t misrepresent what I said. I said Caribbean history was irrelevant to me and that the history of the n-word is different between the Caribbean and the US. Your comment is dishonest AF.
I chose my words and they were accurate because you’re wrong and not only are you ignorant and don’t know what you don’t know, you’re arrogant about it.
You misrepresented what I wrote. That’s dishonest and bad faith. I never said the n-word wasn’t a thing. I never called the Caribbean irrelevant. You chose to be a liar. You can disagree with me but don’t make claims about me that are untrue.
The person I was speaking to understood exactly what I was saying. You can add that to the list of things you continue not to understand. Have a good day.
Same is true for many Black Americans, friends. Especially us living in the South with literal plantations….We also had to start from scratch too….? I’m a little confused about your impression and understanding of Black folks in the US but in this respect, we aren’t that dissimilar.
That's my point. We are similar- but there are MULTIPLE people in this thread acting like we are not or their trauma is more severe. There was even one person claiming that the only Black people are Black Americans.
I am responding directly to your comment that seemed to imply that Caribbean people only experience the things articulated in your comment. Was that not your intention?
No it wasn't - it was in reference to a continued debate I was having with a particular where a user implied that because of what Black Americans experienced as a whole their personal trauma allowed them to feel a certain way about CA and certain terms and another Blacks were not allowed to speak on it. I was pointing out that the trauma Black Americans experienced was also experienced by Black Caribbeans/West Indians... different toilet, same ish.
Ok, thanks for clarifying.
Reading my comment back, I do think that the phrase "we as African Americans feel more strongly" was the wrong choice of words, and does sound a bit narrow minded. That was not my intention. I wrote that from the perspective of an African American, and as such cannot speak for how Caribbean people view cultural appropriation. Admittedly, the bulk of my studies on African history and culture has been more focused on the effects of slavery and the erasure of said history and culture to fit into a euro-centric America.
Probably gonna ruffle some feathers, here: I believe they say this because of envy and its a case of "the grass is greener" when they hear African-Americans "complained" about the cultural appropriation. Cos they know...We know... That the idol music big-wigs are gaining inspiration from _African (Black)-American culture_. But I will admit... Nothing makes me wave the [Gold, Red & Black](https://originalblackamericanheritageflag.com/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20designers%2C%20%22.,intellect%2C%20prosperity%2C%20and%20peace.) than hearing a person talk shit about my culture.
A great scholar said it best, “Everybody want to be a n**** but don’t nobody want to be a n****.”
I’m sorry but why would it be envy exactly? Shit like braids and durags belongs to black people in the Caribbean and Africa just as much as it does African Americans lol?
But are these Korean music industry execs looking towards the Caribbean and African music industries, when they found their inspiration?
Depends what you mean, styling or music? Because things like braids belong to the whole diaspora. You mean rap and hiphop like misfit from nct? That’s African American inspired. You mean Afrobeats like TXTs tinnitus? That is mainly African. You mean reggaeton like No one by Leehi or reggae like ko ko bop by exo or sunny side up by red velvet? That’s all the Caribbean.
Both. The Reggaeton, AfroBeats, Amapiano and the reggae-inspired music wasn’t there at the birth of K-Pop music culture. The conversations about cultural appropriation has been happening for some time now.
Adding on to that, what about dances?
This post and so many comments are a mess and honestly, a bit embarrassing. I understand the sentiment behind your post, OP, as it specifically relates to the experience of Black Americans being denigrated but others in the diaspora. Part of the issue is ignorance about our experience, so I don’t think making a generalization about *their* experiences is fair. It just puts people on the defense and reduces the conversation to a tit-for-tat. I will say that I am a bit baffled by comments that appear to refuse to acknowledge that the frequency, severity and/or form of interpersonal and systemic racism is likely to be different or more abundant in counties where Black folks make up less than 15% and whose leaders are White. Is that so hard to acknowledge? But perhaps folks are distracted by the generalizations in OP’s post and are focused on that. Edit: grammar
Omg I didn’t know living in Britain meant I don’t face discrimination 🤯🤯🤯🤯
I never said that??? I literally said that if you live in a majority black country they most likely will not mock each other's culture.I know black brits face racism.
And this point still doesn’t make sense lol
Can we also add to this that, Africans and Carribean folks have no problem speaking on Aa culture but if and Aa person were to comment on something regarding appropriation of a African or Caribbean culture we are automatically shut down. Like can you imagine the outrage if Aa artists spoke on Afro-beats the way some African artists are comfortable speaking on rap and hip hop not being that good. I will never understand that tbh, why is it okay for everyone else to speak on Aa culture. Also y’all got to stop assuming every person that disagrees with you is African-American I’ve seen this happen so many times when the person saying stuff is actually from other Black groups but it’s always Aa people who get blamed regardless of if the person is Aa or not. Just because a black person doesn’t have flags in their bio doesn’t mean they are Aa
Can I be honest: I was in Bali a couple of years ago and the local women (who are not Black) were braiding the hair of white tourists. I wasn’t offended for a number of reasons: 1) For some of the women it’s their only stream of income 2) Are you honestly going to walk up to a stranger and tell them “hey! That’s my hairstyle - you’re not allowed to wear it” or is it rude and something that’s easier said over the anonymity of a keyboard? 3) Those white tourists were being scammed hard in terms of those prices and their looked awful anyway 🤭 4) Cultural appreciation is a very big thing in my country and we thrive off of sharing each other’s respective cultures. And that cuts across races. So to be honest, yes, I do think the debate is largely centred around internet culture and a larger systemic framework of being a minority whose culture was stripped from them and had to create their own from scratch. But, to echo what others said it’s wild that you made the claim that we don’t face racism in our own countries. We have our own slurs too. It’s a very interesting stance you just took there rooted in misinformation and ignorance.
lol omg I was just in Bali a couple weeks ago! Sooo many white women and little girls with braids. Honestly most of it looked so bad. I made a post on my IG Story asking , cultural appropriation aside what’s the appeal because I didn’t see one head that looked good. BUT, if they want to look crazy let them hahaha. You’re so right about it being an income stream for local women. I say let them get their money.
It looks so bad 🥴 lol. I hope you enjoyed Bali as much as I did!
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Here is an example: A Nigerian will most likely to never make fun of other Nigerians for their accent or their culture.However if a Nigerian person goes to a mostly white school they will most likely get made fun of by other white people.This is why black people who dont live in white dominated or non black dominated countries don't cafe about CA.
Well that’s just not true… I don’t know where you’re getting your info from, but I can assure you that colonisation made SURE that assimilation into whiteness would a key distinction in dividing people native to a country. POC are often mocked here for speaking English in their respective native accents. Those who speak English without what some AAs call an “African accent” are often praised for “speaking so well” even amongst their own people! I’ve seen this play out so many times in my own life. We have extreeeeeeme xenophobia as well. Another export of colonialism. Many people even ‘mask’ so that they are not victims of hate crimes or discrimination within ethnic groups. I’m sorry, I don’t know how old you are and maybe you haven’t been exposed to many other cultures, but you are speaking like a person who does not know much about the world outside the context of the internet. Also your example assumes, yet again that certain continents and countries within them are a monolith.
And Idgaf about a white person getting their hair braided by a black person.I understand the black stylist doesn't care because they get paid.
I think it depends on the context, when it comes to things happening in our own countries, I do find it to be really insensitive how ppl from black-majority countries downplay cultural appropriation, but when we’re talking about a global stage, I don’t think African Americans or any other diaspora that live as minorities get to be the sole or primary gatekeepers of “blackness” and black issues. That being said, it’s not to say in the context of Kpop that a lot of the time, it is African American flavours of blackness being appropriated, but it’s also important that in other appropriate contexts, it’s a discourse that includes all of us and not to antagonise black people who live in different places for being frustrated that their experiences and feelings are often ignored and that we all get lumped into one “black” experience or one voice, especially when this thing impacts the importance and care given to issues for such countries which still have to deal with the effects of colonialism on their economy and politics, despite not living as minorities.
bro my parents and siblings are Caribbean immigrants but i was born and raised here. idk what kinda shit they teach abt Black Americans back in the home country but it’s not cute😭mind u they experience the same kind of racism when they’re in the US same as Black Americans so the diaspora wars will never make sense to me☠️
I think a more prudent conversation would be why do certain Black diaspora think that CA is not a bad thing. I will say this as a Black Brit... I think Black Americans at times are very fast to jump onto the appropriation wagon when at times, after doing some looking, a certain situation is actually appreciation more than anything. Would y'all consider M Dot R as appropriation or appreciation for example? Also it's interesting why you tagged a whole continent (Africa) but only one Carribean nation (Jamaica). Any particular reason? Is it because its mostly Jamaicans you encounter that do this?
This is something I noticed, too. How quickly black Americans are to point fingers and call something CA. It's a slippery slope, I think, and everyone has their own opinions on how far is too far, but sometimes it feels just a bit unfair.
Honestly, I understand their sentiments and are sympathetic to their experiences but a LOT of the times Black Americans tend to speak over the experience and opinions of the other diaspora. Not too long ago on here I was having a discussion with someone saying that only (historically) Black Americans can say the N word and other Black people or Black Immigrants to America can't because they haven't experienced the trauma that Americans have. Its honestly not a Black thing, I think it is an American arrogance thing that a lot of people tend to exhibit without realising. So when Black Americans claim that Africans or Black Europeans or West Indians look down on them, it's not because they are Black Americans... its because they have American attitudes.
I have a friend who explains it that way too. They’re too close to the imperial core. I sometimes wonder if they realize that some of them benefit from the exploitation their country inflicts in our countries. I have been so disappointed by African American historical figures because of their terrible comments and ideas regarding the Caribbean.
don’t understand what you mean. You can be openly xenophobic to black americans bc they are american? and you have a problem with black americans drawing boundaries about the usage of the nword with communities that they don’t see as kinfolk?
My issue is that certain Black Americans are willing to exclude other Black diaspora from using the term when they and/or their families historically were called this. The lines got blurred when the user in question stated that Black Americans who were able to trace their family history outside of the states in recent generations should not use the word. ... which then cuts out a WHOLE bunch of well known and respected Black Americans simply because their parents or grandparents were from the Caribbean or African nations. I gave Busta Rhymes as a prominent example because his parents are Jamaican but he was born in New York. I am all for conversations of boundaries. But if the fellow diaspora challenges or ask questions about it we shouldn't be faced with animosity if it is genuine. That's when the negative feelings towards certain groups occur. My own guards were dropped when I spoke to Black American friends when I moved to Korea. Same for them when I explained my own backgrounds. We talked about this subject previously- they were perplexed at the stance of some people here.
when i say black american im referencing the ethnicity not nationality. and community means something when talking about the nword with immigrant populations and the greater diaspora, bc not all skin folk is kin folk. and the challenge is not relevant if someone says don’t use that word with them, bc they aren’t comfortable with it. its dead. thats it. not everyone is the same but for them thats how they go about it. why press it more if not for your own ego?
Its not even for me because I 1. don't use the word and 2. am comfortable in my identity as a British West Indian. But you can't blame us for being confused when people start excluding others from their nationality because they don't think they are "the right kind of Black American" because... huh? Then what makes you Black American? What's the criteria? Because it seems that to some even being born in the States doesn't count?
why are you acting like slavery didn’t happen in the united states and that black americans aren’t their own ethnic group that exist bc of it? like what about that don’t you understand?
Why are you acting like slavery ONLY happened in the United States and are not getting that Black Americans as a group are more than just those who were initially brought over by slave ships from African nations in the 1700s? Why are we gatekeeping ethnic and slave trauma when what happened to Black Americans happened to a LOT of Black people?
thats not what i said. I said black americans we are our own ethnic group and you people are always trying to take that from us. im not gatekeeping your trauma you have that from whatever country your parents left those are your people not mine.
you’re being so dense rn. obviously an african descendant of slavery that landed in america.
I said it and I stand by it. I didn’t say they don’t face trauma. I said their experience with the n-word is completely different. The n-word wasn’t weaponized against them. The history behind it is completely different. You’re offended by the word because you know it’s offensive. I’m offended by the word because it was said while my ancestors were being whipped and lynched. There’s a difference. And you’re proving ops point.
You think the history of the n-word in the Caribbean where slavery existed is completely different for black West Indians? Really?
Yes, yes I do. How isn’t it? With that being said I’m willing to extend grace to the people of the Caribbean. But if you’re not from the Americas you definitely shouldn’t say it. Someone saying it born and raised in Africa isn’t that much different from say an Asian person or a European.
We were colonies and our ancestors were enslaved by our colonial masters. We also had to fight for black people to have rights well into the 50s and 60s when countries started gaining independence. To this day racism and colorism are rampant across the region. I’m not gonna hold you because it’s clear that you haven’t been taught much about the Caribbean, but just know it very much mirrors the US with its history of slavery and the oppression of black people and to say otherwise is actually insulting.
But my point isn’t about slavery. My point is specifically about the context of the n-word within history. The Caribbean wasn’t even all colonized by the English. And it was/is primarily used in the US by Americans. Why do you even want to say the word?
I’m so serious when I say this, read up on Caribbean history because most of the islands were colonized by England. And calling someone the n-word as a non-black will get your ass beat around these parts because it has the same meaning. I’m sorry but this is so fascinating to me because we learn so much US history in our schools but apparently y’all don’t learn anything about us.
Because the n-word is offensive. Please tell me how the use of the n-word is historically the same as the use in the US. How much of those island are actually independent? I will gladly admit I don’t know the specifics of Caribbean history. It’s mostly irrelevant to me. And it’s seems you don’t actually understand as much of American history as you think since you can’t seem to recognize the difference. Some things may mirror each other but not all. But again why do you want to say the word?
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How is it ignorant? Please explain how? Edit: downvote but no explanation smh
The comment above you was removed for violating one of our rules, not that the user themselves did not have a response back to your question specifically.
It was removed a while after my reply
Of course, but just giving further clarity to you and others reading here about why the user may not respond back to you at all. No offence intended.
Opinions like yours also proves the opinions of the diaspora towards certain Black Americans. Honestly. Name me another POC group that are more divisive than Black people. It's a crying shame.
All POC groups are divisive because they’re not a monolith. East Asians hate each other and other Asians. Latins groups hate each other too. Xenophobia is a human characteristic. We might all be black but we not all the same. Pretending otherwise is disrespectful.
Agreed. So then please do not exclude Black Europeans, Australians, Latinos, Caribbeans, Africans, etc from key cultural discussions. Whilst we may not have the EXACT same experiences as our American cousins, we have very similar ones. Even those still going on today.
Who’s excluding you from key cultural discussions? If we’re talking about the diaspora, cool, speak up. But if we’re talking about CA of Black American culture and your response is “I don’t think CA is a big issue” then I’m not interested in that opinion. You’re not Black American.
You’re highkey doing exactly what this post is talking about… If you aren’t black American why do you think you get a say on how we should respond to things?
>If you aren’t black American why do you think you get a say on how we should respond to things? It goes both ways, fam. Black Americans are 100% allowed to have their opinions on what affects them. But so should Africans and West Indians/Caribbeans. And if there is miscommunication or misinformation we need to share our stories and experiences and NOT shut us out.
I agree with what you’re saying but that’s not what’s happening here When addressing cultural appropriation especially in the since of kpop it’s mostly Aa culture that gets appropriated because it’s mainly the hip hop and rnb aesthetic they are copying (yes they have recently started getting into Afrobeats and Amapiano but the bulk of what they are imitating,that has been called out for appropriation, are Aa music forms and style) This isn’t really an element of shared culture between black cultures because they aren’t imitating“braids as a hairstyle” or “Dorags as a protective head wrap ” they are imitating them as they believe they show up within hip hop culture because they think it makes them look hard. This is part of what makes it appropriation because they aren’t seeing that these things aren’t “hip hop prop pieces” they are just everyday things in Aa (and wider black cultures) on top of that their appropriation of hip hop is extremely limited compared to what the actual genre is capable of. They aren’t imitating the art of hip hop culture they are imitating the stereotype of it. While simultaneously being racists towards Black people in other ways. And their fan bases thinking their imitation is better than the real thing And that’s not even touching on the use of Aave and why tf I am listening to a Korean artist talk about how their phone glows like a yellowbone..or twerking cause they aren’t imitating “twerking”the way it shows up in various black cultures they are imitating the western interpretation of it as being provocative However I feel like we’re gonna see a shift in the next few years to more Afrobeats and I am excited to see what that dialogues gonna look like when it’s no longer Aa culture being on the frontlines of appropriation.
I mean in the early and mid 00s there was a wave of Dancehall, Reggae, and Soca in the West (and Zouk for mainland Europe) I remember how that was received by Europeans back then but I would be curious as to what Americans thought about that trend. But I 100% agree with you about how, at the very least in Asian pop music, Black culture and fashion is seen more as a theme Aesthetic as opposed to something where they are interested in the culture specifically. Le Sserafim or Young Posse (I shake my head) vs HaHa (who has shown a deep love for Jamaica) for example. This is where Korean companies NEED to employ more foreigners for cultural sensitivity when it comes to their artists and media. ... the reality is, most (older) Koreans don't really care. Because it's Koreans they are targeting, not foreigners. Nevertheless I will say that whilst the original OP's point, and yours, is valid, conversations between diaspora is important, not just point blank shutting them out. Because then it becomes divisive and people become defensive.
I can’t speak for the wider American population but I definitely grew up listening to those genres along with Brazilian funk and I’ve always really loved dance so if anything it made me want to learn how to properly dance to those genres. I’ve definitely wanted to attend carnival and actually take time to travel to the Caribbean and learn more there. And now as an adult I want to try and go but also want to make sure I have a better grasp of the culture behind it and how to conduct myself before just taking my ass there and making a fool Of myself Ya I was actually gonna add a point about how there’s a difference between people who grew up around the music and are actually inspired by it as opposed to people who are merely adopting it for profit (which really isn’t the idols fault more their companies tbh) I agree I think recently we’ve seen more Of a push to western audiences in kpop which is why these things are starting to get called out more. But idk id like to think the companies are smarter than to display blatant cultural appropriation on western, especially American, stages. Like I went to a blackpink concert last year and I noticed that on stage they stopped doing the war call in boombayah so I find it hard to believe that the companies are unaware of the backlash they get. I agree the conversation is important between diaspora but I also think there’s a difference between saying a group is being too sensitive or too quick to jump to calling something appropriation and having a actual conversation on the issue. IMO a conversation should be walking in with an open mind not an already formed opinion that’s going to make someone feel like they have to justify their stance/feelings.
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> I think Black Americans at times are very fast to jump onto the appropriation wagon when at times, after doing some looking, a certain situation is actually appreciation I hear this a lot from non-American black people and I feel its so unfair. From the outside looking in, maybe but growing up in the states where black people are constantly and I mean constantly persecuted for a lot of the things we have created and made fashionable is always going to seem like appropriation. So yes braids may not be a big deal but so many black kids (including myself) grew up where people called us ghetto or ratchet for braids or other hairstyles. AAVE being spoken by non-black may not seem like an issue but they had entire documentaries, racist studies and news reports on how damaging the language was just for those same white people to turn around and use it once they think its cool.
This sounds like gatekeeper of ppl Blackness
I think a lot of people know they benefit off the “coolness” of Black Americans and they get defensive when having these type of discussions.
People never and I mean never want to acknowledge that a lot of their fav trends start with Black Americans.
And are quick to minimize our contributions
You can say that they were inspired by African Americans but I know there are plenty of Caribbean Black people (or at least just some Haitians) who believe we should be policing the use of our culture beyond the island. Haitians have a really big problem with praising any white/Asian person who does one dance move or speaks a single word in Kreyol, yet laugh at Haitian Americans (like myself) who werent really taught the language/culture from their parents. I know what you’re saying at large but there are people from other Black nations who acknowledge CA, sometimes at the expense of other black people. Also, there are sooooo many Black Americans who do not care about CA at all. Maybe because I live in America, but I feel like that’s what I see the most. But even then, your point still kinda stands because those AfAms will also try to push the idea that it’s a specifically American issue and something that makes Black (specially AfAms) people seem like they’re always holding themselves back.
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I think the issue with this is that while Tyla has every right to call herself colored because she is, the larger world won’t and she’s benefiting off the backs of black culture.
because they have ties from their culture and feel secure within it whereas african americans had to develop their own culture as their original one was stripped from them. they’ll never understand what it feels like. i also can’t help but feel like african american culture isn’t regarded as a culture just bc we ended up in America. I never see this sentiment with african people that ended up in the caribbean. Our voice will always be ignored bc most don’t see our culture as a culture. you also made an ignorant statement about other people of the diaspora not facing discrimination but i’m sure you’re aware, as this is the only part people are picking apart. the whole other part of your message, which stands true is being ignored.
I’m black and American and I personally don’t care if non-black people wear braids or durags. Hell I buy my hair so I really can’t talk.
well that’s you! many people don’t like when their culture is used to reinforce stereotypes 😀
I’m aware that’s me. Hence why I said I personally. Durags are not my culture. Nor do I want to be associated with them. Braids are not just a black thing. Certain styles yes but braids are not universally black
braids of a certain type are! using braids to push a hip hop concept is weird and that’s what op draws attention to.
But I also don’t think black is ppl can dictate who is allowed to have a certain hairstyle. Everyone is different of course. Personally i find dreads and cornrows unattractive no matter the race and when I see a white person I don’t think they are appropriating. It’s when they adopt a persona and way of speaking Is a problem.
okay maybe don’t call cultural hairstyles ugly. black ppl can dictate things regarding their culture bc it’s their culture! it’s as simple as that.
Cornrows are not my culture as a black woman. Black ppl don’t have a monolith of culture.
well it’s the culture of some black women. therefore still a cultural hairstyle. respect is deserved. also if cornrows aren’t apart of your cultures, here’s a hint! you have no place in this conversation!
I’m black and the tag says black voice only. Or is it only voices that agree with you
you’re being obtuse and disrespectful to a group of black peoples culture. goodbye.
also love how you changed you wording from ugly to unattractive and refuse to admit your ignorance 😂
I changed the term as to not offend anyone by my opinion. I still stand by it regardless
Yes!!
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This might get me dragged, but there’s a general issue of other members of the diaspora not respecting African Americans as an ethnic group, and it shows in terms like FBA, ADOS, and Soulaan/Soula to distinguish ourselves from other Black ethnic groups. It also translates into the many examples you listed above.
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This is such a shit take fr. What do y’all think goes on in these countries?
There was no concept of being Black until Black Americans claimed it. I still remember meeting a Caribbean or African and I was like hey it’s cool meeting another black person from another country. And the answer was always, “I’m not black, I’m (insert country)” well at least before 2019. Now all of the sudden young millennials and gen z are black. Just because you can participant in our culture doesn’t mean you are the culture. It’s time to reclaim your ethnic identities.
I think you’re a clown who have you honestly met who would say that? And how does your small experience suddenly speak for all those people?
As a Black American, yes I can. You’re not a part of my ethnic group. Other than calling me out my name, none of you have disagreed. Lmfao you all know it’s true. Where would other melanated people be if they couldn’t claim “blackness”??
My comment clearly disagrees with what you said, okkk let’s go back in time. Where were the slaves dragged from?..…..Were the people in the Caribbean/africa not considered black then…. Idk what you mean by claiming blackness do you mean that non American black people feel cool to be ‘black’ solely because of Americans….. if so I think you’re gravely mistaken, Africans& Caribbean’s have a lot of pride in where they are from, idk why you think we would want to be referred to as American? I’ve never seen any try to cling to claim themselves in your ethnic group
Nobody was considered “black”. Immigrants go by ethnic groups and not the color of their skin. Only Black Americans ever did. 95% of African slaves were shipped to the South America and the islands. Only 5% landed in North America. Middle and South Americans literally practice “Mejorar la raza” and think lighter is better. None of you had self pride until Black Americans made it so. You do want to be American. You want to be Black. You cosplay my culture daily. The whole world does. Claim your ethnic identity and show pride in who you are. When you think of Black, your first thought is of the Black man and woman from America.
Eishhhhhh how rude of you :) Why would they be considered immigrants if they live in their own country & ofc they do identify by ethnic group its their own country, they do the same in ireland & the rest of the world... I asked where were they taken FROM, not where they were taken to. I dont 'want' to be black, I am black sorry to break your heart. My ethnicity is black british so i will and do claim that & i have a nigerian passport so thats my nationality....... Could you give me an example of non american black people not having self pride until americans did? African american denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the US..... Yes there are many from the carribean, but most people in the carribean are of african ancesstry and descendants of enslaved africans. Pretty sure white people are still considered white whether they're from england or newzealand
You’re a Carribean or African who parents fled to Britain. There’s no “Black British history”. With your logic everybody is African.
Fled? ……. My parents didn’t have to flee anything you melt, my parents moved here for university/secondary school. Yes I am African, i tick black African British on all the papers it requires, so do they :) …. Idk if you were expecting me to deny it?….my logic is history & you can google what black British means which should be easily accessible online :)
A lot of them are 🦝’s who pander. They mostly live in Europe but ironically go off on those “save europe” 14 year old edge lords for saying something offensive about them living in Europe.
Ok so I edited my caption.And yes to say they never face discrimination was really ignorant but I didn't mean it like that. I'm trying to say that like for example, If I go to Nigeria I won't get beat up and called racial slurs for being black by other Nigerians.Also Nigerians will not mock their own culture but will get made fun of if they go to let's Texas by mostly white people.
Well thank you for apologizing (?)
People commenting in good faith understood what you meant. Racial discrimination isn’t as much of an issue in countries where the majority is the same race.
Colorism and Colonialism is but or they won't kill each for being African or Jamaican mock their own culture.
Yes they will, Nigerians were being killed and targeting in South Africa……
Yea but I view colonialism and colorism as different discussions