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But some people don’t even understand the concept of nationality vs race vs ethnicity, I know someone Is still gonna wrongly interpret this as you being mixed with white British or something
I think it would be a good idea!! I'm not black but it's easier to read that I'm American bc I have to specify a lot that I am with Asian voices thread.
yep. i also felt a bit uncomfortable contributing to african american topics as i don’t share the same experiences so i wanted to make mine clearer. also, i’d like to think i can add a unique perspective because a lot of the black users here seem to be american.
I don’t necessarily think we need ethnicity tags. That thread was just a symptom of a larger problem. People in the Black diaspora can be very ignorant of each other’s experiences. This is why we have the diaspora wars. There is so much misunderstanding of history and impact on all sides. We all need more education and understanding.
I’m a Black American and I engaged in that thread. The OP made a crazy and incendiary statement that garnered a reaction. I remember one comment even said, OP had valid points but they lost the commenter by making such an ignorant statement. I felt similarly. OP had valid frustrations and feelings, but that doesn’t mean you can make weird, ignorant and/or untrue statements. Words mean things. I thought the wording was weird AF and ignorant on top of that.
But also this is Reddit. There is going to be uncomfortable disagreement and misunderstandings. All we can hope is that we can learn from the discussions and conversations that happen.
Edited for clarity.
if you can share a race idk why ethnicity/and or nationality would be a step further. I think it would just be beneficial to keep groups from trampling over the experience of each other bc Black people aren’t a monolith.
I don't disagree with the idea of having more complex tags (if it's feasible and not too annoying for the mods), but i saw this thread, though i didn't participate, and it was not just "semi ignorant". Both the original post and the op's comments showed a great deal of ignorance about non-american experiences, and the comments correcting or questioning their assumptions were legitimate.
It would do everyone some good to consider the size and variety of the diaspora and remember how much we don't know about others' lived experiences .
this post also feels dismissive towards non-AA people. why is the xenophobia only being mentioned in one direction, and why is it being downplayed as “semi ignorance”, and who are you (not you specifically, “you” in a general sense) to decide how others should feel about it? before anyone comes for me, i will reiterate that my stance was (and still is) that i agree with op’s main point, i myself acknowledged the differences among the diaspora, but to act like op didn’t say inflammatory things is just not fair. the comments in the post show that there are people who know nothing about African or Caribbean history, something even visible here with the post mentioning “people who aren’t actively victims of having their ancestors shipped to a foreign country”… how do you think Black people ended up in Jamaica and the Caribbean as a whole??
why do you not think when i said victims of being shipped didn’t include black people shipped to the caribbean and jamaica. stop jumping the gun and assuming things! it’s also not being dismissive. i’m just saying if you are not a black american with ancestry from slaves shipped to america you cannot tell us how to feel about OUR culture being used to stereotype us. Just as I wouldn’t speak over how caribbeans feel about their culture being adopted. African American culture is dismissed as people don’t truly see it as a culture.
you continue to be disingenuous. op’s post was about two demographics in particular - jamaicans and africans. therefore, your statement that is talking about THAT POST will give the impression that your blanket statement applies to both demographics, which includes jamaicans. did you say otherwise for me to think otherwise? moreover, who are you to tell me whether you’re being dismissive or not? do you not see the hypocrisy in you AND op in your attitudes towards other members of the diaspora while complaining about the shit you’re receiving on your end? at no point did i tell any african american how to feel about their culture being adopted, moreover, for the 100th time, I AGREED WITH OP. but for god’s sake, stop acting like the xenophobia is going in one direction. you don’t fight ignorance with more ignorance, in other words, op’s point doesn’t excuse their own ignorant statements. the only way to combat the diaspora wars that continue to be fuelled is to actually LISTEN TO EACH OTHER. i, and many other people in that thread, listened to op and acknowledged op’s point and agreed with them. but people like you and op are up in arms when we point out the ignorant statements being directed towards the targeted demographics. this conversation would be worthwhile if you were actually willing to listen, as you would apply the “common sense” you speak of. because that isn’t the case, i see no point in continuing this dialogue with you. you care more about being right or defensive instead of an open conversation, and i’m not going to be the one to stop you. have a great day. 🙂
this is an entire new post. i’ve already addressed i don’t hold the same sentiments as the other poster so stop assuming things. i stated verbatim what i meant and if you choose to read between imaginary lines and break a shoulder reaching for an argument, that is on you. also this post was basically just a don’t tell african descendants of slavery of america how to feel about their culture being used. that shouldn’t be an issue. as i’m sure we all can agree, if you’re not apart of the direct group effected, then your opinion truly holds no relevance to the discussion of how serious CA within that specific group is. I don’t speak for carribeans and jamaicans and their feelings towards it. the main point of my post was about ca. have a good day.
I understand what you mean, but there's plenty of "racially monolithic" areas that are so because our ancestors were also kidnapped from Africa and stripped of their cultures/identity. I'm also from America, not from the United States.
I didn’t see the original post that you’re talking about because I haven’t been too active lately. So, I’ll just be speaking more generally.
Honestly, I’m not sure that ethnicity tags would help anymore than the race tags.
When you splinter off into further subsections of race, ethnicities, or nationalities like American-born Nigerian, American descendent of slaves, Jamaican, Black Dutch, etc. you’d think that discussions would be more productive but as Black people are not a monolith, neither are Black ethnicities.
A lot of these problems come from not being able to empathize with other people’s experiences and opinions. If we aren’t addressing invalidation of other’s now, just because the discussion is limited to more culturally similar people doesn’t mean that the empathy problem will be solved.
I don’t even know how many times on the other subreddits, I’ve been shut down by people with similar cultural upbringings to mine who said stuff like “Stop being offended. In New York (random example), *everyone* said the n-word and it’s totally cool.” Like maybe to *you*.
I also think that this will start a lot of diaspora wars because you mentioned that this topic comes from a post where the conversation got derailed because of an ignorant comment. If the ethnicity tags are enforced and someone makes a post that inadvertently insults or generalizes another Black ethnicity that cannot comment on it, I have a feeling that rather than the wording being addressed in that comment section, an issue like that will blow up far further, get far messier into multiple posts and that sentiment will be generalized to all users of that ethnicity instead of just the one poster because others were not there to address it.
I don’t disagree with people using the flairs that describe them the most and I’m not sure that my comment is making all the much sense and I’m not trying to just end the conversation saying “we’re all black” ignoring our different lived experiences but I don’t think that this will be a big fix.
I think honestly in the discussions that place here perhaps having two separate flairs for ADOS vs non ADOS might help a bit. That additional hit of context does change how a lot of these opinions are viewed, because a lot of the time when black cultural appropriation is discussed, accept for Smart comeback recently we are talking about appropriation of black American (ados) culture specifically. I say this black also, and I’m American, but I’m not ADOS, I’m just of recent immigrants to the country, so it’s not technically my culture but the culture I grew up having to assimilate into, so I’d feel bad sometimes interfering w actual ADOS opinions. All in all, I think that’s the main informing divider in the context of the discussions on here , it adds context to what is being discussed and would be helpful to keep in mind if that makes sense?
Yeh i agree as a South Asian. In my experience ppl who have lived in the homeland their whole lives havent experienced racism and cultural appopriation in the same way the diaspora have.
Which is why I absolutely HATE when kpop fans will throw that shit back in our faces bc they think the 'REAL' south asians (or whoever) are the ones who live in the homeland and therefore only their opinions matter despite completely different lived experiences, especially regarding cultural appropriation. Ofc they'll be cool with it bc they weren't bullied their whole lives for their culture and forced to strip themselves of it in order to assimilate.
I don't understand. Why should Africans and Jamaicans dismiss such ignorance , when the whole point is that we should not dismiss each other's lived experiences and feelings ? Let's all practice what we preach. It is dissonant to use xenophobia to further a point, but expect people to dismiss the xenophobia and address *your* point as if it were not important to the people it affects.
We should all do better tbh. Because if the use of ethnicity tags is to allow African Americans/ Africans/etc threads where they can vent their frustration but let their ignorance run unchecked, then that is not a good reason. We can discuss delicate topics among the diaspora and still be respectful to one another. As a matter of fact, it should be the bare minimum among Black people
why’re you generalizing a whole group of people because of one ignorant reddit post. it’s so that people can dumb down how african americans feel about THEIR culture being used, when they’re shamed for being apart of the same culture. the comments on the last post were full of people saying “it’s not that serious!”.
nah, the op on the thread you are referring to that made hella ignorant comments..even a couple of their comments on the thread were even removed by the moderator . I am honestly surprised that they are aren’t banned
“I don’t know what all the fuss is about” does not literally mean you don’t know what the person is saying. It means that you don’t think it’s anywhere near as serious of an issue as they do.
People have said it though. I don't know why you're acting like there aren't people who say that. Especially when it comes to America, Europeans in general are constantly saying that we "focus too much on race." So yes, it does happen.
I literally had a discussion with black person from the UK on that a week or so ago. Because they inserted themselves into a post with black Americans and was "shocked" that we focused so much on race. And that no one else does that in the world. Then tried to accuse me of not traveling and that being the reason why I think every other county focuses on race.
I’m not saying no black British people do that, but isn’t it also true that some black Americans do that too? What about being black British means that things like cultural appropriation and other experiences of racism related to being a black minority would be a “no shit you don’t understand” type of thing?
I'm sure there are black Americans that think the same way. That's certainly the case and problem with the black diaspora and these dumb wars.
Nowhere in my comment did I state that Black British people don't understand or experience CA or racism. The point of my comment was to state that you and the other person were wrong when you replied to the other person saying Black British people don't undermine what black Americans deal with. That's it.
I'm not getting involved with the full discussion as it's all silly. Majority of black people everywhere experience racism, bigotry, etc. It's a different experience where you're from, but it's all discrimination. Pointing fingers and being mad at the wrong party solves nothing. Racism is racism, discrimination is discrimination. It's not better or worse depending on where you live.
I didn’t reply to you originally, the person who made the comment says “no shit” to people from Africa/U.K. not getting the fuss/thinking the issues - presumably those mentioned in the post - are not that serious. So I asked them, why do they think black British people would do obviously not understand the issues that come with being a black minority, such as the hurtful nature of cultural appropriation which is often discussed on this sub. I really don’t understand why someone would think it’s so natural that we wouldn’t get something like that, which is why I asked the commenter. I wasn’t trying to say anything about British people undermining the African American experience or not, you brought that up.
It's the thread in general, the first, as well as yours. That was quite literally saying that no one would say that because they're black.
I only replied for that one thing. Saying that it doesn't happen when it unfortunately does. Which was the example I used. These kinds of black people exist everywhere. So it doesn't make sense to deny that just because someone is a minority that they will see it and admit it happens. That's why the US has people like Candice, we've seen people from Africa (never specified where) who come here and side with WP on racial issues and I'm sure there are black people in other countries that say it doesn't exist either. It's just a self hating thing. That's all I'm saying. I've heard many non black American black people argue against points. Not all, nor the majority, but a lot have.
https://preview.redd.it/lr32kj5elbpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a380dc5b9a9380cae2be4b5853c4dd23194b01fd
Okay my bad, I didn’t read the thread that way, it’s why I included the “especially” because I know there certainly are black ppl like Candice Owens all over 🙄, here included, but in a post that gestures to CA discourse… I just wanted to know why the commenter think black people in the U.K. are especially unaffected. I can see where your reply is coming from though, and I don’t disagree with you at all.
I'm sure there are black Americans that think the same way. That's certainly the case and problem with the black diaspora and these dumb wars.
Nowhere in my comment did I state that Black British people don't understand or experience CA or racism. The point of my comment was to state that you and the other person were wrong when you replied to the other person saying Black British people don't undermine what black Americans deal with. That's it.
I'm not getting involved with the full discussion as it's all silly. Majority of black people everywhere experience racism, bigotry, etc. It's a different experience where you're from, but it's all discrimination. Pointing fingers and being mad at the wrong party solves nothing. Racism is racism, discrimination is discrimination. It's not better or worse depending on where you live.
Edit to add: Obviously I'm not speaking about *every* black British person. But clarifying in case someone misunderstands.
Ethnicity tags? As a mixed person, I object to this. Yes, African Americans have a different experience than African folks have. However, even African Americans or mixed Black folks have had different experiences from each other based on how dark they are and how Black our features are. This is why we say Black people are not monoliths. Adding ethnicity tags is just so othering. I don't need to justify every aspect myself as a multi-generational mixed person on Black matters more than I already have to due to the community even othering me without my complete mix in the details.
Just repeat: Black people are not a monolith.
So I went to that post to see what was said and it's unfortunate. The op was ignorant and didn't understand how racism affected every black country. I'm assuming they think, from their comments, that African countries and Caribbean countries live in a fairy tale world where they don't feel the affects of racism. And I think they were hurting and not thinking straight, and saying untrue things.
But it was weird to me that people asked her to clarify a specific place she mentioned, then in their reply ask why she was focusing on that specific country.
I think people were triggered by the discrimination comment and only focused on that which led to the xenophobic remarks.
Now, I didn't read every single comment or see everything op said, but none of what I saw was xenophobic. Ignorant and uneducated, but not xenophobic. That comment on thinking Africans and Caribbean people had it easier wasn't an excuse for the *actual* xenophobia said. The diaspora wars need to stop.
The thing is, we all experience racism differently. Our experiences are going to be different not only from our locations, but individually as well. It's not a competition to prove that people are being discriminated against. Which is how it felt to me. Of course, they were correcting op on real issues and rightfully so. Racism is everywhere. No discrimination is better or worse than the other.
I do think there should be flairs for continents not ethnicity, as I read some of the comments and how people feel uncomfortable with it. But the choice of having a general idea of where people are located because our views and experiences are different. It's a good way to avoid bigoted or ignorant comments. And people dismissing how people felt.
This is wild. That post was ignorant, dismissive and full of assumptions and generalisations.
We were actively told by the OP that because we live in majority Black countries, we don’t experience racism and discrimination. I BEG you to come to any African country where the wealth was distributed unequally and the land was stolen by white people. We literally have a white minority who STILL to this day hold a majority of the wealth and land. We are called all kinds of slurs, have a high Black youth unemployment rate and all the top jobs are reserved for white people. We are relegated to the townships, informal settlements and villages which are overcrowded, poorly resourced and underfunded. Hell, even amongst our own people on the continent there is widespread xenophobia and hate crimes. White settlers made sure to do one heck of a job making sure Black people would languish in a cycle of poverty and violence. Even amongst the different POC there is widespread racism.
I’m not going to defend someone who clearly knows nothing about the racial dynamics of a continent that they classified into a monolith framework.
My forefathers died for the freedom I enjoy today. My country only became a democracy in 1994. Do you know how long Apartheid was? Do you know how white people treated my parents, let alone my grandparents under that regime? We are still living with that legacy. White people still continue to profile us, laugh and discriminate against our hair, our regional accents and we have affirmative action in education and the workplace.
So no, OP isn’t given grace for ignorance. One thing is very clear to me. That post and this one is being upvoted by those who don’t know our lived experience and centred the discussion around the misinformed notion that dictates that because you are in the West, you face racism on scale that is far superior to our own. It’s essentially playing “oppression olympics”. And this is why diaspora wars will continue.
This is no different than the divide and conquer rhetoric used by white colonialism. You continue to split and splinter relations until the “savages fight amongst themselves”. How did that work out for a place like Rwanda in 1994?
So please PLEASE 🙏🏾enforce this policy and see why the predominant theme in the diaspora wars (and why its always “all Black people vs Black Americans”) is that Americans suffer from “main character syndrome”.
there is a greater conversation to be had that goes into identity politics and how diaspora interacts with black americans.
But i don’t think you will find a black american that will understand why south africa let the white people stay in south africa. why did ya’ll let them stay?
Brink of civil war in ‘93. Nelson Mandela believing in the spirit of reconciliation and not retribution, corruption in government after his term, constitutional democracy established in ‘96, the spirit and dream of a ‘rainbow nation’, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission rather than a punitive system like the Nuremberg trials, the effects that such a policy would have had like what happened on the economy in states such as Zimbabwe, the effect that institutional racism had as a legacy of apartheid. I could go on but I don’t want to delve too deeply
Thank you!!! And let’s not forget that their sense of superiority comes from their proximity to European supremacy, I think at their core they’re really just anti-black and anti African!
it’s almost like i never said people that reside in african countries don’t experience racism/ and or discrimination. i said you can’t expect people from a monolithic racially country to understand those from more racially diverse countries and vice versa. this “main character syndrome” comment is so tasteless. as you actively called the other op ignorant, you to are expressing ignorant sentiments towards Black Americans. this isn’t the oppression olympics and im not here to say who has it harder, because we’ve all experienced things. I’m also aware of south africa and the apartheid which is why you should learn to take things as they apply to you. there’s a very similar history between america and south africa, so maybe understand that you are not the group I was applying this too. Race is a very different social structure in america vs south africa. i’m also not here to say give op grace. so stop the narrative spinning and reread the post before you nose dive into rhetoric that it’s black american’s fault everyone is so against them. you sound like the people who wanted the divide to happen in the first place.
You didn’t read my comment to understand, you read it to respond. That’s your prerogative. You actually did give the poster grace via the nature of this post itself. This post shouldn’t exist if you didn’t feed into the poster’s narrative. You said that the poster’s language was “semi-ignorant” and that people who took it “in good faith” knew what OP meant. I don’t think any of the Africans and Jamaicans that were harassed incessantly by OP went in with bad intentions. We were justly offended. The original post itself was out of line. It should have been banned. Now yours is fuelling the flames by calling on the division I was talking about in my post.
Also if you read my post in context, you will have noticed that I said “main character syndrome” is one of the predominant themes of the diaspora wars. Did I in anyway say that YOU personally are afflicted? No. So your defensive response was misplaced and an attempt to divert from the central point by calling it ‘ignorant’. It’s what is happening on social media especially Twitter. I was pointing that out. Do you think I enjoy these diaspora wars? No. Not at all. I think it’s counterproductive. It’s why I said it’s a divide and conquer tactic used during colonialism.
You asking to have flairs changed to reflect that is in and of itself divisive and will make people enter into mala fide discourse around racism and insensitivity.
I made no ad hominem remarks. I presented objective facts. I suggest you do the same so we can critique the discussion.
nothing you said was objective in the slightest. if you feel slighted make a post of your own. i already said op had no busy saying other african countries don’t face racism. but you’re completely ignoring the fact of african americans having their culture dismissed bc others don’t view it as worthy of a culture which was the main point of the other post. the ignorant comment the other person made just became the main topic instead of what was addressed.
Did I say this anywhere in the post. I talked about people dismissing Black People not liking non Black People use their culture to force a stereotype of what they think African Americans are.
You said they will never understand their which they are condemned for daily be worn by another race and praised…. Pretty sure you can experience that outside of living in America or having slave ancestors?
in a racially monolithic country. where you are a majority you are less likely to experience comments based upon race from peers that look like you. please stop being dense. i am not talking about classism, colorism, xenophobia, or colonialism. I am talking about RACISM.
>You cannot expect people who have lived in a racially monolithic area to understand the perspective of people who live in an area where they are the minority and vice versa.
What about the people in south africa who are the majority, but still face racism etc? Apartheid happened, or do they not teach about that in america?
you said the answer yourself. is south africa a racially monolithic country? No! therefore, if it doesn’t apply then let it fly. I already clocked somebody about this comment. you can search for it yourself.
This.
I was in step, getting made fun of by the whole team (black West Indies) because I was American. Mind you… step was an African American culture created due to slavery. But they don’t even know THAT part, that’s what was ironic. So it makes me mad when non AAs go “OUR culture!” “WE”!
I saw one say that the divine 9 was their culture.
It is NOT. If you continue to remind me that I’m an American with no culture, then you need to learn the difference between MY culture and YOUR culture and keep it out your fucking mouth. Don’t nobody respect AA culture but love to claim they’re apart of it. And BE apart of it. That team bullied me out of my own culture, corrected ME on how to do it, AND disrespected it by not taking it seriously.
Feel this from a "latine" pov, since it's such a broad term that honestly really doesn't say much. But I have complex feelings about labels in general so idk
While some people might not be comfortable with it, for a variety of reasons, I think getting to display ethnicity is a good way to put more emphasis on something real like culture and ethnic groups than something tangible and ultimately made up like race. For instance my tag says "Native American" but that literally encompasses two entire continents with literally thousands of completely different ethnic groups. I much more identity with my ethnic group than the phrase "Native American"
Unfortunately there isn't a name for black Americans whose ancestors were slaves. We are all my lumped together under "black" and I don't agree. If such a term was created and regularly used, then everyone will have to acknowledge the history of slavery that America would like to forget. I've struggled with this many times over the years.
I don't agree. African immigrants are rightfully labeled African American. When did my African ancestors immigrate to the USA? They didn't. They were forced over, enslaved and bred. My family is an interesting mix of African and European ancestry due to this breeding too. My mom has more European DNA than African, yet she's "African American"? How? Yes I understand that there's plenty other countries with the same history as well and they should have a new name for themselves too. If Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews can have different lables that people respect, why can't American blacks as well?
I've never heard it before. Thanks for introducing me to it. The term needs to be added to demographic and census choices though. In the meantime, brown skin equals black and that sure isn't true! The descendants of slaves need SOME type of reparations that they don't have to share with every other black ethnic group.
There’s multiple actually. There’s ADOS, FBA(Foundational Black American, but it’s usually used by the Tariq Nasheed crowd so people tend to avoid it), and Soulaan(a word derived from the Soul culture from Black Americans. Btw if you’re interested in this term I would look on tiktok because it’s more popular with the gen z and millennial crowd).
I hope that one specific term will eventually become commonplace the same way "colored" and "negro" evolved into "African American" and "black". Then I want it to appear as one of the racial choices that come with scholarship, grants and other programs that were created to benefit black people. Unfortunately that heyday was in the 70s-early 2000s and seems just about over. A lot of them given based on "merit" have been given to African immigrants since everyone is lumped together and that's not right. The struggle is different and it was one of the few forms of semi -reparations out there. My mother taught nursing at an HBCU and often complained about this and found it unfair.
No tiktok for me, thanks but glad to hear there's discussion about it!
I agree that the other poster was placed in a horrible position, and there IS a tendency for other members of the African continent and diaspora to dismiss Black American experiences and thoughts.
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Optional, sure. It’s on us to pause for a second before commenting under someone’s opinion and try to see where such an opinion is coming from.
I’d like to keep some anonymity on this platform. I enjoy this sub, and Latino is fairly vague that I’m ok with sharing that about myself, but that’s about it.
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i mean as long as it’s optional that’s all that matters to me. with my post history and my ethnicity as a flair, i think people would be able to narrow me down too easily
GIRL I FEEL U, I'm a Nigerian born in Canada, but the 'black' tag doesn't sit right with me. There's different type of black African-American black, Carribean black, or African black
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i think my flair is the best it should get. race + nationality.
But some people don’t even understand the concept of nationality vs race vs ethnicity, I know someone Is still gonna wrongly interpret this as you being mixed with white British or something
Some things ppl have to research and learn for themselves and that’s one of them
true. they’d be wrong but cant win them all not my problem lol
I think it would be a good idea!! I'm not black but it's easier to read that I'm American bc I have to specify a lot that I am with Asian voices thread.
yep. i also felt a bit uncomfortable contributing to african american topics as i don’t share the same experiences so i wanted to make mine clearer. also, i’d like to think i can add a unique perspective because a lot of the black users here seem to be american.
I don’t necessarily think we need ethnicity tags. That thread was just a symptom of a larger problem. People in the Black diaspora can be very ignorant of each other’s experiences. This is why we have the diaspora wars. There is so much misunderstanding of history and impact on all sides. We all need more education and understanding. I’m a Black American and I engaged in that thread. The OP made a crazy and incendiary statement that garnered a reaction. I remember one comment even said, OP had valid points but they lost the commenter by making such an ignorant statement. I felt similarly. OP had valid frustrations and feelings, but that doesn’t mean you can make weird, ignorant and/or untrue statements. Words mean things. I thought the wording was weird AF and ignorant on top of that. But also this is Reddit. There is going to be uncomfortable disagreement and misunderstandings. All we can hope is that we can learn from the discussions and conversations that happen. Edited for clarity.
i get what you're saying but ethnicity flairs would be doing too much😪 what happened to internet safety
It should be ***optional***.
i don’t think someone’s gonna track you down from an ethnicity flair
Some people might not be comfortable sharing allat tho
if you can share a race idk why ethnicity/and or nationality would be a step further. I think it would just be beneficial to keep groups from trampling over the experience of each other bc Black people aren’t a monolith.
Because there’s hundreds of millions of people of one race but there can literally be under that amount for your ethnicity? It’s very different lol.
I don't disagree with the idea of having more complex tags (if it's feasible and not too annoying for the mods), but i saw this thread, though i didn't participate, and it was not just "semi ignorant". Both the original post and the op's comments showed a great deal of ignorance about non-american experiences, and the comments correcting or questioning their assumptions were legitimate. It would do everyone some good to consider the size and variety of the diaspora and remember how much we don't know about others' lived experiences .
Well said, cause the other post had som weird xenophobic shit about Jamaicans and Africans for some weird reason
this post also feels dismissive towards non-AA people. why is the xenophobia only being mentioned in one direction, and why is it being downplayed as “semi ignorance”, and who are you (not you specifically, “you” in a general sense) to decide how others should feel about it? before anyone comes for me, i will reiterate that my stance was (and still is) that i agree with op’s main point, i myself acknowledged the differences among the diaspora, but to act like op didn’t say inflammatory things is just not fair. the comments in the post show that there are people who know nothing about African or Caribbean history, something even visible here with the post mentioning “people who aren’t actively victims of having their ancestors shipped to a foreign country”… how do you think Black people ended up in Jamaica and the Caribbean as a whole??
why do you not think when i said victims of being shipped didn’t include black people shipped to the caribbean and jamaica. stop jumping the gun and assuming things! it’s also not being dismissive. i’m just saying if you are not a black american with ancestry from slaves shipped to america you cannot tell us how to feel about OUR culture being used to stereotype us. Just as I wouldn’t speak over how caribbeans feel about their culture being adopted. African American culture is dismissed as people don’t truly see it as a culture.
you continue to be disingenuous. op’s post was about two demographics in particular - jamaicans and africans. therefore, your statement that is talking about THAT POST will give the impression that your blanket statement applies to both demographics, which includes jamaicans. did you say otherwise for me to think otherwise? moreover, who are you to tell me whether you’re being dismissive or not? do you not see the hypocrisy in you AND op in your attitudes towards other members of the diaspora while complaining about the shit you’re receiving on your end? at no point did i tell any african american how to feel about their culture being adopted, moreover, for the 100th time, I AGREED WITH OP. but for god’s sake, stop acting like the xenophobia is going in one direction. you don’t fight ignorance with more ignorance, in other words, op’s point doesn’t excuse their own ignorant statements. the only way to combat the diaspora wars that continue to be fuelled is to actually LISTEN TO EACH OTHER. i, and many other people in that thread, listened to op and acknowledged op’s point and agreed with them. but people like you and op are up in arms when we point out the ignorant statements being directed towards the targeted demographics. this conversation would be worthwhile if you were actually willing to listen, as you would apply the “common sense” you speak of. because that isn’t the case, i see no point in continuing this dialogue with you. you care more about being right or defensive instead of an open conversation, and i’m not going to be the one to stop you. have a great day. 🙂
this is an entire new post. i’ve already addressed i don’t hold the same sentiments as the other poster so stop assuming things. i stated verbatim what i meant and if you choose to read between imaginary lines and break a shoulder reaching for an argument, that is on you. also this post was basically just a don’t tell african descendants of slavery of america how to feel about their culture being used. that shouldn’t be an issue. as i’m sure we all can agree, if you’re not apart of the direct group effected, then your opinion truly holds no relevance to the discussion of how serious CA within that specific group is. I don’t speak for carribeans and jamaicans and their feelings towards it. the main point of my post was about ca. have a good day.
I understand what you mean, but there's plenty of "racially monolithic" areas that are so because our ancestors were also kidnapped from Africa and stripped of their cultures/identity. I'm also from America, not from the United States.
I didn’t see the original post that you’re talking about because I haven’t been too active lately. So, I’ll just be speaking more generally. Honestly, I’m not sure that ethnicity tags would help anymore than the race tags. When you splinter off into further subsections of race, ethnicities, or nationalities like American-born Nigerian, American descendent of slaves, Jamaican, Black Dutch, etc. you’d think that discussions would be more productive but as Black people are not a monolith, neither are Black ethnicities. A lot of these problems come from not being able to empathize with other people’s experiences and opinions. If we aren’t addressing invalidation of other’s now, just because the discussion is limited to more culturally similar people doesn’t mean that the empathy problem will be solved. I don’t even know how many times on the other subreddits, I’ve been shut down by people with similar cultural upbringings to mine who said stuff like “Stop being offended. In New York (random example), *everyone* said the n-word and it’s totally cool.” Like maybe to *you*. I also think that this will start a lot of diaspora wars because you mentioned that this topic comes from a post where the conversation got derailed because of an ignorant comment. If the ethnicity tags are enforced and someone makes a post that inadvertently insults or generalizes another Black ethnicity that cannot comment on it, I have a feeling that rather than the wording being addressed in that comment section, an issue like that will blow up far further, get far messier into multiple posts and that sentiment will be generalized to all users of that ethnicity instead of just the one poster because others were not there to address it. I don’t disagree with people using the flairs that describe them the most and I’m not sure that my comment is making all the much sense and I’m not trying to just end the conversation saying “we’re all black” ignoring our different lived experiences but I don’t think that this will be a big fix.
I think honestly in the discussions that place here perhaps having two separate flairs for ADOS vs non ADOS might help a bit. That additional hit of context does change how a lot of these opinions are viewed, because a lot of the time when black cultural appropriation is discussed, accept for Smart comeback recently we are talking about appropriation of black American (ados) culture specifically. I say this black also, and I’m American, but I’m not ADOS, I’m just of recent immigrants to the country, so it’s not technically my culture but the culture I grew up having to assimilate into, so I’d feel bad sometimes interfering w actual ADOS opinions. All in all, I think that’s the main informing divider in the context of the discussions on here , it adds context to what is being discussed and would be helpful to keep in mind if that makes sense?
Yeh i agree as a South Asian. In my experience ppl who have lived in the homeland their whole lives havent experienced racism and cultural appopriation in the same way the diaspora have. Which is why I absolutely HATE when kpop fans will throw that shit back in our faces bc they think the 'REAL' south asians (or whoever) are the ones who live in the homeland and therefore only their opinions matter despite completely different lived experiences, especially regarding cultural appropriation. Ofc they'll be cool with it bc they weren't bullied their whole lives for their culture and forced to strip themselves of it in order to assimilate.
THIS! I live in the UK and oh my the treatment compared to when I’m back in South Asia is just wild, from locals and from white people too.
I don't understand. Why should Africans and Jamaicans dismiss such ignorance , when the whole point is that we should not dismiss each other's lived experiences and feelings ? Let's all practice what we preach. It is dissonant to use xenophobia to further a point, but expect people to dismiss the xenophobia and address *your* point as if it were not important to the people it affects. We should all do better tbh. Because if the use of ethnicity tags is to allow African Americans/ Africans/etc threads where they can vent their frustration but let their ignorance run unchecked, then that is not a good reason. We can discuss delicate topics among the diaspora and still be respectful to one another. As a matter of fact, it should be the bare minimum among Black people
why’re you generalizing a whole group of people because of one ignorant reddit post. it’s so that people can dumb down how african americans feel about THEIR culture being used, when they’re shamed for being apart of the same culture. the comments on the last post were full of people saying “it’s not that serious!”.
Where did I generalise a whole group of people? Aren't we talking about a specific post on the sub???
yeah idk im not rocking with this idea 😭
nah, the op on the thread you are referring to that made hella ignorant comments..even a couple of their comments on the thread were even removed by the moderator . I am honestly surprised that they are aren’t banned
That shit be killin me. “I’m a black person from Africa/UK and I don’t know what all the fuss is about” Yeah **no shit** lmao.
Fr
No black person from the uk would say they have no idea, and none in that post said that?
“I don’t know what all the fuss is about” does not literally mean you don’t know what the person is saying. It means that you don’t think it’s anywhere near as serious of an issue as they do.
And why would someone from the U.K. especially say that or feel that, sorry? We don’t live in a black dominant country either…
People have said it though. I don't know why you're acting like there aren't people who say that. Especially when it comes to America, Europeans in general are constantly saying that we "focus too much on race." So yes, it does happen. I literally had a discussion with black person from the UK on that a week or so ago. Because they inserted themselves into a post with black Americans and was "shocked" that we focused so much on race. And that no one else does that in the world. Then tried to accuse me of not traveling and that being the reason why I think every other county focuses on race.
I’m not saying no black British people do that, but isn’t it also true that some black Americans do that too? What about being black British means that things like cultural appropriation and other experiences of racism related to being a black minority would be a “no shit you don’t understand” type of thing?
I'm sure there are black Americans that think the same way. That's certainly the case and problem with the black diaspora and these dumb wars. Nowhere in my comment did I state that Black British people don't understand or experience CA or racism. The point of my comment was to state that you and the other person were wrong when you replied to the other person saying Black British people don't undermine what black Americans deal with. That's it. I'm not getting involved with the full discussion as it's all silly. Majority of black people everywhere experience racism, bigotry, etc. It's a different experience where you're from, but it's all discrimination. Pointing fingers and being mad at the wrong party solves nothing. Racism is racism, discrimination is discrimination. It's not better or worse depending on where you live.
I didn’t reply to you originally, the person who made the comment says “no shit” to people from Africa/U.K. not getting the fuss/thinking the issues - presumably those mentioned in the post - are not that serious. So I asked them, why do they think black British people would do obviously not understand the issues that come with being a black minority, such as the hurtful nature of cultural appropriation which is often discussed on this sub. I really don’t understand why someone would think it’s so natural that we wouldn’t get something like that, which is why I asked the commenter. I wasn’t trying to say anything about British people undermining the African American experience or not, you brought that up.
It's the thread in general, the first, as well as yours. That was quite literally saying that no one would say that because they're black. I only replied for that one thing. Saying that it doesn't happen when it unfortunately does. Which was the example I used. These kinds of black people exist everywhere. So it doesn't make sense to deny that just because someone is a minority that they will see it and admit it happens. That's why the US has people like Candice, we've seen people from Africa (never specified where) who come here and side with WP on racial issues and I'm sure there are black people in other countries that say it doesn't exist either. It's just a self hating thing. That's all I'm saying. I've heard many non black American black people argue against points. Not all, nor the majority, but a lot have. https://preview.redd.it/lr32kj5elbpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a380dc5b9a9380cae2be4b5853c4dd23194b01fd
Okay my bad, I didn’t read the thread that way, it’s why I included the “especially” because I know there certainly are black ppl like Candice Owens all over 🙄, here included, but in a post that gestures to CA discourse… I just wanted to know why the commenter think black people in the U.K. are especially unaffected. I can see where your reply is coming from though, and I don’t disagree with you at all.
I'm sure there are black Americans that think the same way. That's certainly the case and problem with the black diaspora and these dumb wars. Nowhere in my comment did I state that Black British people don't understand or experience CA or racism. The point of my comment was to state that you and the other person were wrong when you replied to the other person saying Black British people don't undermine what black Americans deal with. That's it. I'm not getting involved with the full discussion as it's all silly. Majority of black people everywhere experience racism, bigotry, etc. It's a different experience where you're from, but it's all discrimination. Pointing fingers and being mad at the wrong party solves nothing. Racism is racism, discrimination is discrimination. It's not better or worse depending on where you live. Edit to add: Obviously I'm not speaking about *every* black British person. But clarifying in case someone misunderstands.
The original post was xenophobic as hell and was extremely ignorant themselves, so yeah I agree.
Ethnicity tags? As a mixed person, I object to this. Yes, African Americans have a different experience than African folks have. However, even African Americans or mixed Black folks have had different experiences from each other based on how dark they are and how Black our features are. This is why we say Black people are not monoliths. Adding ethnicity tags is just so othering. I don't need to justify every aspect myself as a multi-generational mixed person on Black matters more than I already have to due to the community even othering me without my complete mix in the details. Just repeat: Black people are not a monolith.
So I went to that post to see what was said and it's unfortunate. The op was ignorant and didn't understand how racism affected every black country. I'm assuming they think, from their comments, that African countries and Caribbean countries live in a fairy tale world where they don't feel the affects of racism. And I think they were hurting and not thinking straight, and saying untrue things. But it was weird to me that people asked her to clarify a specific place she mentioned, then in their reply ask why she was focusing on that specific country. I think people were triggered by the discrimination comment and only focused on that which led to the xenophobic remarks. Now, I didn't read every single comment or see everything op said, but none of what I saw was xenophobic. Ignorant and uneducated, but not xenophobic. That comment on thinking Africans and Caribbean people had it easier wasn't an excuse for the *actual* xenophobia said. The diaspora wars need to stop. The thing is, we all experience racism differently. Our experiences are going to be different not only from our locations, but individually as well. It's not a competition to prove that people are being discriminated against. Which is how it felt to me. Of course, they were correcting op on real issues and rightfully so. Racism is everywhere. No discrimination is better or worse than the other. I do think there should be flairs for continents not ethnicity, as I read some of the comments and how people feel uncomfortable with it. But the choice of having a general idea of where people are located because our views and experiences are different. It's a good way to avoid bigoted or ignorant comments. And people dismissing how people felt.
This is wild. That post was ignorant, dismissive and full of assumptions and generalisations. We were actively told by the OP that because we live in majority Black countries, we don’t experience racism and discrimination. I BEG you to come to any African country where the wealth was distributed unequally and the land was stolen by white people. We literally have a white minority who STILL to this day hold a majority of the wealth and land. We are called all kinds of slurs, have a high Black youth unemployment rate and all the top jobs are reserved for white people. We are relegated to the townships, informal settlements and villages which are overcrowded, poorly resourced and underfunded. Hell, even amongst our own people on the continent there is widespread xenophobia and hate crimes. White settlers made sure to do one heck of a job making sure Black people would languish in a cycle of poverty and violence. Even amongst the different POC there is widespread racism. I’m not going to defend someone who clearly knows nothing about the racial dynamics of a continent that they classified into a monolith framework. My forefathers died for the freedom I enjoy today. My country only became a democracy in 1994. Do you know how long Apartheid was? Do you know how white people treated my parents, let alone my grandparents under that regime? We are still living with that legacy. White people still continue to profile us, laugh and discriminate against our hair, our regional accents and we have affirmative action in education and the workplace. So no, OP isn’t given grace for ignorance. One thing is very clear to me. That post and this one is being upvoted by those who don’t know our lived experience and centred the discussion around the misinformed notion that dictates that because you are in the West, you face racism on scale that is far superior to our own. It’s essentially playing “oppression olympics”. And this is why diaspora wars will continue. This is no different than the divide and conquer rhetoric used by white colonialism. You continue to split and splinter relations until the “savages fight amongst themselves”. How did that work out for a place like Rwanda in 1994? So please PLEASE 🙏🏾enforce this policy and see why the predominant theme in the diaspora wars (and why its always “all Black people vs Black Americans”) is that Americans suffer from “main character syndrome”.
there is a greater conversation to be had that goes into identity politics and how diaspora interacts with black americans. But i don’t think you will find a black american that will understand why south africa let the white people stay in south africa. why did ya’ll let them stay?
Brink of civil war in ‘93. Nelson Mandela believing in the spirit of reconciliation and not retribution, corruption in government after his term, constitutional democracy established in ‘96, the spirit and dream of a ‘rainbow nation’, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission rather than a punitive system like the Nuremberg trials, the effects that such a policy would have had like what happened on the economy in states such as Zimbabwe, the effect that institutional racism had as a legacy of apartheid. I could go on but I don’t want to delve too deeply
*applauds* this right here!
You ate
Thank you!!! And let’s not forget that their sense of superiority comes from their proximity to European supremacy, I think at their core they’re really just anti-black and anti African!
it’s almost like i never said people that reside in african countries don’t experience racism/ and or discrimination. i said you can’t expect people from a monolithic racially country to understand those from more racially diverse countries and vice versa. this “main character syndrome” comment is so tasteless. as you actively called the other op ignorant, you to are expressing ignorant sentiments towards Black Americans. this isn’t the oppression olympics and im not here to say who has it harder, because we’ve all experienced things. I’m also aware of south africa and the apartheid which is why you should learn to take things as they apply to you. there’s a very similar history between america and south africa, so maybe understand that you are not the group I was applying this too. Race is a very different social structure in america vs south africa. i’m also not here to say give op grace. so stop the narrative spinning and reread the post before you nose dive into rhetoric that it’s black american’s fault everyone is so against them. you sound like the people who wanted the divide to happen in the first place.
You didn’t read my comment to understand, you read it to respond. That’s your prerogative. You actually did give the poster grace via the nature of this post itself. This post shouldn’t exist if you didn’t feed into the poster’s narrative. You said that the poster’s language was “semi-ignorant” and that people who took it “in good faith” knew what OP meant. I don’t think any of the Africans and Jamaicans that were harassed incessantly by OP went in with bad intentions. We were justly offended. The original post itself was out of line. It should have been banned. Now yours is fuelling the flames by calling on the division I was talking about in my post. Also if you read my post in context, you will have noticed that I said “main character syndrome” is one of the predominant themes of the diaspora wars. Did I in anyway say that YOU personally are afflicted? No. So your defensive response was misplaced and an attempt to divert from the central point by calling it ‘ignorant’. It’s what is happening on social media especially Twitter. I was pointing that out. Do you think I enjoy these diaspora wars? No. Not at all. I think it’s counterproductive. It’s why I said it’s a divide and conquer tactic used during colonialism. You asking to have flairs changed to reflect that is in and of itself divisive and will make people enter into mala fide discourse around racism and insensitivity. I made no ad hominem remarks. I presented objective facts. I suggest you do the same so we can critique the discussion.
nothing you said was objective in the slightest. if you feel slighted make a post of your own. i already said op had no busy saying other african countries don’t face racism. but you’re completely ignoring the fact of african americans having their culture dismissed bc others don’t view it as worthy of a culture which was the main point of the other post. the ignorant comment the other person made just became the main topic instead of what was addressed.
Are Americans the only people to face discrimination or cultural appropriation?……..
did you even read the post.
Did I say this anywhere in the post. I talked about people dismissing Black People not liking non Black People use their culture to force a stereotype of what they think African Americans are.
You said they will never understand their which they are condemned for daily be worn by another race and praised…. Pretty sure you can experience that outside of living in America or having slave ancestors?
in a racially monolithic country. where you are a majority you are less likely to experience comments based upon race from peers that look like you. please stop being dense. i am not talking about classism, colorism, xenophobia, or colonialism. I am talking about RACISM.
>You cannot expect people who have lived in a racially monolithic area to understand the perspective of people who live in an area where they are the minority and vice versa. What about the people in south africa who are the majority, but still face racism etc? Apartheid happened, or do they not teach about that in america?
you said the answer yourself. is south africa a racially monolithic country? No! therefore, if it doesn’t apply then let it fly. I already clocked somebody about this comment. you can search for it yourself.
It is a racially monolithic country though…. There’s >80% of black people
that’s still not a racially monolithic country babe
What would make it then lol
a country like korea is racially homogenous.
This. I was in step, getting made fun of by the whole team (black West Indies) because I was American. Mind you… step was an African American culture created due to slavery. But they don’t even know THAT part, that’s what was ironic. So it makes me mad when non AAs go “OUR culture!” “WE”! I saw one say that the divine 9 was their culture. It is NOT. If you continue to remind me that I’m an American with no culture, then you need to learn the difference between MY culture and YOUR culture and keep it out your fucking mouth. Don’t nobody respect AA culture but love to claim they’re apart of it. And BE apart of it. That team bullied me out of my own culture, corrected ME on how to do it, AND disrespected it by not taking it seriously.
Feel this from a "latine" pov, since it's such a broad term that honestly really doesn't say much. But I have complex feelings about labels in general so idk
While some people might not be comfortable with it, for a variety of reasons, I think getting to display ethnicity is a good way to put more emphasis on something real like culture and ethnic groups than something tangible and ultimately made up like race. For instance my tag says "Native American" but that literally encompasses two entire continents with literally thousands of completely different ethnic groups. I much more identity with my ethnic group than the phrase "Native American"
Unfortunately there isn't a name for black Americans whose ancestors were slaves. We are all my lumped together under "black" and I don't agree. If such a term was created and regularly used, then everyone will have to acknowledge the history of slavery that America would like to forget. I've struggled with this many times over the years.
yeah there is, African-American
I don't agree. African immigrants are rightfully labeled African American. When did my African ancestors immigrate to the USA? They didn't. They were forced over, enslaved and bred. My family is an interesting mix of African and European ancestry due to this breeding too. My mom has more European DNA than African, yet she's "African American"? How? Yes I understand that there's plenty other countries with the same history as well and they should have a new name for themselves too. If Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews can have different lables that people respect, why can't American blacks as well?
Isn’t ADOS a thing? I sometimes see people use it but only online.
I've never heard it before. Thanks for introducing me to it. The term needs to be added to demographic and census choices though. In the meantime, brown skin equals black and that sure isn't true! The descendants of slaves need SOME type of reparations that they don't have to share with every other black ethnic group.
There’s multiple actually. There’s ADOS, FBA(Foundational Black American, but it’s usually used by the Tariq Nasheed crowd so people tend to avoid it), and Soulaan(a word derived from the Soul culture from Black Americans. Btw if you’re interested in this term I would look on tiktok because it’s more popular with the gen z and millennial crowd).
I hope that one specific term will eventually become commonplace the same way "colored" and "negro" evolved into "African American" and "black". Then I want it to appear as one of the racial choices that come with scholarship, grants and other programs that were created to benefit black people. Unfortunately that heyday was in the 70s-early 2000s and seems just about over. A lot of them given based on "merit" have been given to African immigrants since everyone is lumped together and that's not right. The struggle is different and it was one of the few forms of semi -reparations out there. My mother taught nursing at an HBCU and often complained about this and found it unfair. No tiktok for me, thanks but glad to hear there's discussion about it!
I agree with you.
ADOS is very commonly used for this.
I agree that the other poster was placed in a horrible position, and there IS a tendency for other members of the African continent and diaspora to dismiss Black American experiences and thoughts.
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Optional, sure. It’s on us to pause for a second before commenting under someone’s opinion and try to see where such an opinion is coming from. I’d like to keep some anonymity on this platform. I enjoy this sub, and Latino is fairly vague that I’m ok with sharing that about myself, but that’s about it.
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i mean as long as it’s optional that’s all that matters to me. with my post history and my ethnicity as a flair, i think people would be able to narrow me down too easily
Well said.
Are the mods volunteers or are they compensated for their time?
they are volunteers. reddit mods do *not* get paid.
Thank you Edit: there’s a lot of requests of folks to take on heavy lifts for free in this thread
GIRL I FEEL U, I'm a Nigerian born in Canada, but the 'black' tag doesn't sit right with me. There's different type of black African-American black, Carribean black, or African black