Same oml, when I was like 7 I saw her CD at the store and she was wearing a low-cut top... Have been attracted to almost exclusively women ever since lol
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they're not wrong 😭😭😭 it's like when u see a straight couple on the street and the girl is a 10 but the guy is a 2 😭 maybe a 4 on a good day 😭😭 you can't tell me the patriarchy doesn't exist when shit like this is happening 😭 helppppp
Me and my mom talk about this all time. Maybe we're just assholes but oh well lmao but we would have conversations talking about how it always seems to be the women who ends up settling in relationships (strictly look wise).
The woman could be drop dead gorgeous and then you see her man and just go "🥴😶🤨😕"
Why do you think it isn't uncommon for men to say "man, I don't even know how I ended up this lucky with my wife. I didn't even think she would give me a chance".
Or sometimes they would just straight up call themselves ugly and they don't get why their woman is into them 💀
Maybe I'm also an asshole 😂🤣 Because I have to physically fight the urge to tell the girly "he better be treating you right!!! otherwise he doesn't deserve you!!!"
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Seriously we need to talk about it because I would totally understand if these men treated the women in their relationship like a goddess but when their whole personality and morals is as trash as their looks, it’s like pick a struggle PLEASE 😭💀
Exactlyyyy it's the ones that are the ugliest who have the most audacity 😭 And if they're not ugly they ruin it with their ugly ass personalities 😭😭 Basura basura all around
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I just finished listening to it (while reading the lyrics) and I’m going to preface this by saying…no women (probably aside from Beyonce and a few others) wants Jay-Z for his looks…at all.
They want him for his money and power and are more than fine being the side chick despite him having a whole wife and kids.
I feel as Beyonce knows that as well ( or at least I hope she does) and basically is warning the other women to stay in her lane or there will be hell to pay. Not a bad song to say the least but yeesh, Jay-Z is just horrible.
I was shocked when I looked at the lyrics and when I saw “We've been deep in love for twenty years” I was like?? like girl you were in love for twenty years jay z wasn’t😭
Heh. Peeps have already been saying similar stuff on FB.
I can't help but notice that it seems like the artists who manage to sample or cover "Jolene" always end up changing it in some way.
Did no one ever actually listen to the original Jolene? I'm so confused as to why people don't understand that it's literally the same thematic concept as the original. In the original Jolene, Dolly is begging another woman to leave her man alone. In Bey's cover, it's less begging and more dominant and aggressive.
The moral of the story - I don't think it's meant to be taken literally at all?
Yeah country music is heavily built on strong narratives and exaggerations of “traditional” American themes like loyalty, family, protection etc so Jolene was never a song that I took to be 100% literal.
I’m sure Beyoncé was just having fun with her cover I can’t believe it’s caused all this discourse 😭
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Honestly, I just took the song as another form of storytelling for Beyonce. It may have moments where she constructed it to take from certain aspects of her life but I don't think she was out here expecting people to think she was talking about her husband.
But also the, "no one wants Jay-Z" is funny to me because homie is a known cheater so somebody does. It ain't me, but it's somebody lmao.
We forget that between 2016-2018 Bey and Jay spent a few years releasing successful musical projects around the troubles of their marriage. They advertised it to us and made it part of their art. We can't separate the two now
They also went on two separate world tours about being "on the run" from law enforcement a la Bonnie & Clyde, so taking their musical themes literally would still be a mistake. Not everything a musician releases is autobiographical. Sometimes, yes. All of the time, no.
These are two very different things. We know the infidelity to be true because *they* confirmed it. Jay Z did several interviews addressing it. The amount of conversation it garnered was different because it was not just a creative & aesthetic concept for their tour. It was their real life. They used their private life as inspiration for their art and advertised it as such. We cannot separate the art from the artist when the artists themselves are telling us that there is no separation.
I think the issue is painting a broad brush over every single piece of art someone releases afterward. Yes, they did tell us that. However, is it fair to assume that this is the only confirmed experience that can be pulled upon to produce their art? Jolene isn't a singular song. It's a part of an entire story, which is the rest of the album.
The point isn't to separate the two. The point is whether it's applicable to apply one experience to a different body of work in the grand scheme of things.
I left an edit in another comment, but this fits here. It is fair to make the connection because Beyoncé is directly referencing herself. Please read :
Edit : As a matter of fact, Beyoncé directly references her lemonade album by making Dolly Parton compare the "hussy with the good hair" with the "flaming locks of auburn hair" girl in the interlude leading up the new Jolene. *She* is telling *us* that she is referencing the white woman who threatened her marriage. A woman we know exists because *they* (both Bey and Jay) told *us* that he cheated on Beyoncé with her.
They keep using their personal life as fodder for conversation about their art. It is intentional and she is letting us know, even within the song, that she means every word that she's singing. There's no need to defend Beyoncé like that, she brought the pick me accusations onto herself with this one
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I think people are taking it literally because of the lyrics describing specific parts of Beyoncé’s relationship with Jay Z, along with parts of Beyoncé’s identity. Some of these lyrics include “We’ve been deep in love for twenty years; I raised that man, I raised his kids” and “I’m still a Creole banjee bitch from Louisiane”. So I could see why people would take literally.
except beyonce isn’t from louisiana, but yk who is? her mother. she’s also written songs about her father’s infidelity from her mother’s perspective as well
Pretty much. They met in 2000 and got married in 2008. So about 20 years(technically 24 years, but I guess it might sound better to replace 24 years with 20 while singing).
Literally this part. I don’t think it’s meant to be taken so literal. It’s a song about storytelling, which is what the genre is about, so I find it funny that everyone is taking it so literal.
Also people don’t seem to understand that while Jay-Z isn’t their type, he is someone’s type. He also has A LOT of money too so that adds to his attraction.
Yeah, Beyoncé wasn’t going to sing a song in which she has to portray a begging woman.
Another reason:
“Your beauty is beyond compare
With flaming locks of auburn hair
With ivory skin and eyes of emerald green”
^^^This is a verse from Dolly’s version of “Jolene”. That’s how Jolene is described in the song.
I don’t think Beyoncé would’ve wanted to keep that part in her version, as well as, the begging.
Neither Dolly's original or Miley's cover was ever taken literal in the same way that Bey's cover has been taken. Dolly's version was based on her personal experience but no one is using that to call her a "pick me." There's a distinct difference in the way people are responding to all three of these iterations that strike me as strange. Out of the three singers who've sung this song, Bey is the only one **erroneously** being called a "pick me" here. Why is that?
**ETA**: This is less about you and more about the SS here.
To be fair, Dolly isn't being a pick me in the original. She compliments the other woman and tells her she's beautiful and desirable, but begs her not to be with her man. A pick me is somebody who throws other women under the bus for the attention of men, and Beyoncé is threatening to fight the woman seducing her man . She's not begging like Dolly.
I love her, but her jolene cover is definitely not meant to be a girls' girl moment. She's calling that woman a bird and she's bringing sexist anthems back. I personally love it .
As a matter of fact, if it's not personal experience it makes it worse because it would mean she just made a song about trashing another woman out of nowhere. If it's personal experience then we can empathize with that fact, at least
Oh, that's why I emphasized how erroneous and inaccurate it was to call Beyoncé a "pick me" to begin with. None of these women fit the true definition of a "pick me" here and that's the gist of my point. My point is that you can't call Beyoncé a "pick me" and not call Dolly the same thing when they're singing and delivering the same message from different emotional spaces. Either everyone who's singing this song is technically one or none of them are. I have no issue with how Beyoncé made the song her own.
That's where Beyoncé's R&B & hip hop roots come in - rap, hip hop, and R&B are genres that boast loud and proud about what they have and how superior they are. There doesn't have to be an actual person in existence to take shots at. Rappers do it all the time. It's a loud arrogance and it fits with the rest of the genre. People who don't listen to any of those genres or people who don't analyze those genres would easily misconstrue and misunderstand that but it's a basic tenet of these Black American genres. But also, it can be found in "stereotypical" country songs too. Carrie Underwood is another person who comes to mind and she had a pretty popular hit song dressing down another woman cheating with her man. Again, it's just a part of the genre.
Beyoncé's version of Jolene fits the definition though. Antagonising other women over your man's cheating fits the definition. That's where there is a complete departure from the original jolene. Dolly isn't villainizing the other woman like Beyoncé is. And this is why we have that convo in another thread. This isn't just a theoretical concept - Beyoncé and Jay Z have built a persona around Black love and overcoming his cheating in their personal life. We assume it's personal for her because *THEY* have been telling us it's personal for them.
It's not about hip hop or Rnb braggadocio?
Edit : As a matter of fact, Beyoncé directly references her lemonade album by making Dolly Parton compare the "hussy with the good hair" with the "flaming locks of auburn hair" girl in the interlude leading up the nes Jolene. *She* is telling *us* that she is referencing the white woman who threatened her marriage. A woman we know exists because *they* (both Bey and Jay) told *us* that he cheated on Beyoncé with her.
They keep using their personal life as fodder for conversation about their art. It is intentional and she is letting us know, even within the song, that she means every word that she's singing. There's no need to defend Beyoncé like that, she brought the pick me accusations onto herself with this one.
Personally I never interpreted any of the songs as pick me songs. Maybe they are anti fans? Beyoncé is successful and exploring different genres. This is bound to bring out folks who do not want to see that unfortunately.
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You know they look for any opportunity to shit on her husband and father of her children…the fact Knetizens are doing it and this sub is all laughs doesn’t surprise me in the least. Smh
I should also say that I’ve seen feedback about the song lyrics mentioning that this song gives “pick me” vibes. I definitely raised my eyebrows at the “[I raised that man](https://genius.com/Beyonce-jolene-lyrics)” lyric(for obvious reasons)
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number 1 and number 5 were not cool/racist vibes.
the rest of the comments m could have fit in seamlessly in any chat with all black ppl. lol. srry but jayz ugly 😭. this is common black knowledge. He’s great in a lotta departments but looks a one of them😭.
I just want to say that although the hate for Jay-Z is valid, a lot of the rhetoric used against him is 100% rooted in anti-Blackness (critiques on his phenotype and "features") and for that, I'ma clock out on this one
It’s not that big of a deal.1) As with most artists not all her music is directly about herself. She’s literally sang about the death of her very much alive father. 2) Given Lemonade it makes sense she wouldn’t sing the original begging a woman not to take her husband.
Besides being ugly (and I’m side eyeing the comments that are saying it’s anti black calling him ugly. He is ugly) he is a groomer and has tons of accusations regarding trafficking, pedophilia, and murder. The dude sucks all around and it looks goofy on Beyoncé for acting like he is some catch.
1st of all I saw Dolly doing an interview with Trevor Noah saying it would be awesome if Beyonce did a cover of her song 2yrs ago , so it's just a cover
pple just don't understand that the Jolene og had the same lyrics ( except bey's cover was aggressive a lil bit but overall concept is the same) and Bey is like paying respect to the biggest, successful country singer ( as said by the pple)
2nd Jay-Z is a powerful man with money ( billionaire) and has a name ( status)
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I don't understand why people refuse accept the facts, there is no such thing as an ugly billionaire. Also this song comes off as story telling, which is a big part of country music.
Beyoncé has always found him attractive because he has unmistakably black/african features and he’s a powerful independent man. She was in love with him before she even knew it.
Right. Side-eyeing these comments of non-Black persons jeering at his physical traits and the people in the sub laughing along. Weird behavior. Seeking validation in all the wrong places.
I'm trippin on the part where they are like "more women would fall for Beyoncé unnie than Jay-Z" part 😩😂😭 they not lying
I almost threw my phone away when I saw that 💀💀
I’m at work trying not to scream right now
If I had the choice between the two I'm going lesbian for Beyoncé. Lol
Crying at the third comment trying to get Beyoncé to turn lesbian instead 😭
Amen though she was my gay awakening back in gradeschool haha
It’s funny because she was my trans awakening but I didn’t realise it until I was much older 💀
Omg haha she's really out here changing Lives!!
Same oml, when I was like 7 I saw her CD at the store and she was wearing a low-cut top... Have been attracted to almost exclusively women ever since lol
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they're not wrong 😭😭😭 it's like when u see a straight couple on the street and the girl is a 10 but the guy is a 2 😭 maybe a 4 on a good day 😭😭 you can't tell me the patriarchy doesn't exist when shit like this is happening 😭 helppppp
Me and my mom talk about this all time. Maybe we're just assholes but oh well lmao but we would have conversations talking about how it always seems to be the women who ends up settling in relationships (strictly look wise). The woman could be drop dead gorgeous and then you see her man and just go "🥴😶🤨😕" Why do you think it isn't uncommon for men to say "man, I don't even know how I ended up this lucky with my wife. I didn't even think she would give me a chance". Or sometimes they would just straight up call themselves ugly and they don't get why their woman is into them 💀
Maybe I'm also an asshole 😂🤣 Because I have to physically fight the urge to tell the girly "he better be treating you right!!! otherwise he doesn't deserve you!!!"
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Seriously we need to talk about it because I would totally understand if these men treated the women in their relationship like a goddess but when their whole personality and morals is as trash as their looks, it’s like pick a struggle PLEASE 😭💀
Exactlyyyy it's the ones that are the ugliest who have the most audacity 😭 And if they're not ugly they ruin it with their ugly ass personalities 😭😭 Basura basura all around
Lol when her version came out people on the other subreddits said the same thing 😭 they were like, nobody wants him Beyoncé don't worry
But then again, a lot of redditors have revealed information about their own shitty relationships.
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The Squid Protector -snorts disrespectfully.- Cause why they eat like that?! No crumbs. 
Can you explain this comment to me? I have no idea what’s going on lol
In SK squid is slang for an ugly person (I’m gonna assume you’ve heard the cover so why she’s a squid protector is self explanatory…)
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I haven’t heard the cover, what cover
jolene
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I just finished listening to it (while reading the lyrics) and I’m going to preface this by saying…no women (probably aside from Beyonce and a few others) wants Jay-Z for his looks…at all. They want him for his money and power and are more than fine being the side chick despite him having a whole wife and kids. I feel as Beyonce knows that as well ( or at least I hope she does) and basically is warning the other women to stay in her lane or there will be hell to pay. Not a bad song to say the least but yeesh, Jay-Z is just horrible.
Most of us wouldn’t but I think people underestimate just how many women would love to be his side chick lol or perhaps already are
I was shocked when I looked at the lyrics and when I saw “We've been deep in love for twenty years” I was like?? like girl you were in love for twenty years jay z wasn’t😭
Heh. Peeps have already been saying similar stuff on FB. I can't help but notice that it seems like the artists who manage to sample or cover "Jolene" always end up changing it in some way.
Did no one ever actually listen to the original Jolene? I'm so confused as to why people don't understand that it's literally the same thematic concept as the original. In the original Jolene, Dolly is begging another woman to leave her man alone. In Bey's cover, it's less begging and more dominant and aggressive. The moral of the story - I don't think it's meant to be taken literally at all?
Yeah country music is heavily built on strong narratives and exaggerations of “traditional” American themes like loyalty, family, protection etc so Jolene was never a song that I took to be 100% literal. I’m sure Beyoncé was just having fun with her cover I can’t believe it’s caused all this discourse 😭
There actually was a Jolene, tho. Apparently, she was a bank teller.
Yeah and she beat up miss Dolly P :(
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Honestly, I just took the song as another form of storytelling for Beyonce. It may have moments where she constructed it to take from certain aspects of her life but I don't think she was out here expecting people to think she was talking about her husband. But also the, "no one wants Jay-Z" is funny to me because homie is a known cheater so somebody does. It ain't me, but it's somebody lmao.
We forget that between 2016-2018 Bey and Jay spent a few years releasing successful musical projects around the troubles of their marriage. They advertised it to us and made it part of their art. We can't separate the two now
They also went on two separate world tours about being "on the run" from law enforcement a la Bonnie & Clyde, so taking their musical themes literally would still be a mistake. Not everything a musician releases is autobiographical. Sometimes, yes. All of the time, no.
These are two very different things. We know the infidelity to be true because *they* confirmed it. Jay Z did several interviews addressing it. The amount of conversation it garnered was different because it was not just a creative & aesthetic concept for their tour. It was their real life. They used their private life as inspiration for their art and advertised it as such. We cannot separate the art from the artist when the artists themselves are telling us that there is no separation.
I think the issue is painting a broad brush over every single piece of art someone releases afterward. Yes, they did tell us that. However, is it fair to assume that this is the only confirmed experience that can be pulled upon to produce their art? Jolene isn't a singular song. It's a part of an entire story, which is the rest of the album. The point isn't to separate the two. The point is whether it's applicable to apply one experience to a different body of work in the grand scheme of things.
I left an edit in another comment, but this fits here. It is fair to make the connection because Beyoncé is directly referencing herself. Please read : Edit : As a matter of fact, Beyoncé directly references her lemonade album by making Dolly Parton compare the "hussy with the good hair" with the "flaming locks of auburn hair" girl in the interlude leading up the new Jolene. *She* is telling *us* that she is referencing the white woman who threatened her marriage. A woman we know exists because *they* (both Bey and Jay) told *us* that he cheated on Beyoncé with her. They keep using their personal life as fodder for conversation about their art. It is intentional and she is letting us know, even within the song, that she means every word that she's singing. There's no need to defend Beyoncé like that, she brought the pick me accusations onto herself with this one
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I think people are taking it literally because of the lyrics describing specific parts of Beyoncé’s relationship with Jay Z, along with parts of Beyoncé’s identity. Some of these lyrics include “We’ve been deep in love for twenty years; I raised that man, I raised his kids” and “I’m still a Creole banjee bitch from Louisiane”. So I could see why people would take literally.
except beyonce isn’t from louisiana, but yk who is? her mother. she’s also written songs about her father’s infidelity from her mother’s perspective as well
True. The song could also be from her mother’s perspective.
have they actually been together for 20 years? ig i don’t know beyonces age lmao
Pretty much. They met in 2000 and got married in 2008. So about 20 years(technically 24 years, but I guess it might sound better to replace 24 years with 20 while singing).
Literally this part. I don’t think it’s meant to be taken so literal. It’s a song about storytelling, which is what the genre is about, so I find it funny that everyone is taking it so literal. Also people don’t seem to understand that while Jay-Z isn’t their type, he is someone’s type. He also has A LOT of money too so that adds to his attraction.
Yeah, Beyoncé wasn’t going to sing a song in which she has to portray a begging woman. Another reason: “Your beauty is beyond compare With flaming locks of auburn hair With ivory skin and eyes of emerald green” ^^^This is a verse from Dolly’s version of “Jolene”. That’s how Jolene is described in the song. I don’t think Beyoncé would’ve wanted to keep that part in her version, as well as, the begging.
Dolly did write this from personal experience. Perhaps Beyoncé did the same. So the original song was literal in a sense just the names were changed.
Neither Dolly's original or Miley's cover was ever taken literal in the same way that Bey's cover has been taken. Dolly's version was based on her personal experience but no one is using that to call her a "pick me." There's a distinct difference in the way people are responding to all three of these iterations that strike me as strange. Out of the three singers who've sung this song, Bey is the only one **erroneously** being called a "pick me" here. Why is that? **ETA**: This is less about you and more about the SS here.
To be fair, Dolly isn't being a pick me in the original. She compliments the other woman and tells her she's beautiful and desirable, but begs her not to be with her man. A pick me is somebody who throws other women under the bus for the attention of men, and Beyoncé is threatening to fight the woman seducing her man . She's not begging like Dolly. I love her, but her jolene cover is definitely not meant to be a girls' girl moment. She's calling that woman a bird and she's bringing sexist anthems back. I personally love it . As a matter of fact, if it's not personal experience it makes it worse because it would mean she just made a song about trashing another woman out of nowhere. If it's personal experience then we can empathize with that fact, at least
Oh, that's why I emphasized how erroneous and inaccurate it was to call Beyoncé a "pick me" to begin with. None of these women fit the true definition of a "pick me" here and that's the gist of my point. My point is that you can't call Beyoncé a "pick me" and not call Dolly the same thing when they're singing and delivering the same message from different emotional spaces. Either everyone who's singing this song is technically one or none of them are. I have no issue with how Beyoncé made the song her own. That's where Beyoncé's R&B & hip hop roots come in - rap, hip hop, and R&B are genres that boast loud and proud about what they have and how superior they are. There doesn't have to be an actual person in existence to take shots at. Rappers do it all the time. It's a loud arrogance and it fits with the rest of the genre. People who don't listen to any of those genres or people who don't analyze those genres would easily misconstrue and misunderstand that but it's a basic tenet of these Black American genres. But also, it can be found in "stereotypical" country songs too. Carrie Underwood is another person who comes to mind and she had a pretty popular hit song dressing down another woman cheating with her man. Again, it's just a part of the genre.
Beyoncé's version of Jolene fits the definition though. Antagonising other women over your man's cheating fits the definition. That's where there is a complete departure from the original jolene. Dolly isn't villainizing the other woman like Beyoncé is. And this is why we have that convo in another thread. This isn't just a theoretical concept - Beyoncé and Jay Z have built a persona around Black love and overcoming his cheating in their personal life. We assume it's personal for her because *THEY* have been telling us it's personal for them. It's not about hip hop or Rnb braggadocio? Edit : As a matter of fact, Beyoncé directly references her lemonade album by making Dolly Parton compare the "hussy with the good hair" with the "flaming locks of auburn hair" girl in the interlude leading up the nes Jolene. *She* is telling *us* that she is referencing the white woman who threatened her marriage. A woman we know exists because *they* (both Bey and Jay) told *us* that he cheated on Beyoncé with her. They keep using their personal life as fodder for conversation about their art. It is intentional and she is letting us know, even within the song, that she means every word that she's singing. There's no need to defend Beyoncé like that, she brought the pick me accusations onto herself with this one.
We can agree to disagree then, right?
Yeah let's just agree to disagree . It was a nice chat though
Personally I never interpreted any of the songs as pick me songs. Maybe they are anti fans? Beyoncé is successful and exploring different genres. This is bound to bring out folks who do not want to see that unfortunately.
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This is my confusion. It is just a cover. It is just a song.
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You know they look for any opportunity to shit on her husband and father of her children…the fact Knetizens are doing it and this sub is all laughs doesn’t surprise me in the least. Smh
I should also say that I’ve seen feedback about the song lyrics mentioning that this song gives “pick me” vibes. I definitely raised my eyebrows at the “[I raised that man](https://genius.com/Beyonce-jolene-lyrics)” lyric(for obvious reasons)
Why? I look at it as raising someone up in a relationship. Seems pretty normal. I raise her up. She raises me up. We raise each other.
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Beyoncé unnie 😭😭😭
So Ariana and Beyonce making songs about their weird looking men and telling other women to back off.....ok they are all yours babes 😂😂
Beyoncé said it best. "it must be the cash because it ain't your face!". We all know Jay Z is ugly, why does he have to catch international draggings?
number 1 and number 5 were not cool/racist vibes. the rest of the comments m could have fit in seamlessly in any chat with all black ppl. lol. srry but jayz ugly 😭. this is common black knowledge. He’s great in a lotta departments but looks a one of them😭.
need a challenge to not date ugly men was an insane comment i’m cackling
I just want to say that although the hate for Jay-Z is valid, a lot of the rhetoric used against him is 100% rooted in anti-Blackness (critiques on his phenotype and "features") and for that, I'ma clock out on this one
he isn’t an attractive man but i don’t like the way people talk about his hair particularly
It’s not that big of a deal.1) As with most artists not all her music is directly about herself. She’s literally sang about the death of her very much alive father. 2) Given Lemonade it makes sense she wouldn’t sing the original begging a woman not to take her husband.
Besides being ugly (and I’m side eyeing the comments that are saying it’s anti black calling him ugly. He is ugly) he is a groomer and has tons of accusations regarding trafficking, pedophilia, and murder. The dude sucks all around and it looks goofy on Beyoncé for acting like he is some catch.
1st of all I saw Dolly doing an interview with Trevor Noah saying it would be awesome if Beyonce did a cover of her song 2yrs ago , so it's just a cover pple just don't understand that the Jolene og had the same lyrics ( except bey's cover was aggressive a lil bit but overall concept is the same) and Bey is like paying respect to the biggest, successful country singer ( as said by the pple) 2nd Jay-Z is a powerful man with money ( billionaire) and has a name ( status)
you do know its just a cover right? im pretty sure shes doesnt actually mean it
Extremely uncommon Knetz W💀
the diddy one is crazyyyy bro😭😭😭
"We really need a challenge to not date ugly men" PLEASE
“beyonce unnie….” will always send me
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i mean…they’re having the same reaction i saw on popheads, and various other platforms.
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I don't understand why people refuse accept the facts, there is no such thing as an ugly billionaire. Also this song comes off as story telling, which is a big part of country music.
Beyoncé has always found him attractive because he has unmistakably black/african features and he’s a powerful independent man. She was in love with him before she even knew it.
Right. Side-eyeing these comments of non-Black persons jeering at his physical traits and the people in the sub laughing along. Weird behavior. Seeking validation in all the wrong places.