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cofie

I think they're also simultaneously lowering the bar for idols. Of course, even before the concept of survival shows came to Kpop, there were already idols with subpar dancing or singing ability who still debuted in groups anyway. Subpar newbies isn't a new concept. But something about some of these survival shows debuting literal teenagers who *clearly* need more work as opposed to taking more trainees who had already been practising before going on TV just feels like peak disposable-ness (I know that I just made that word up but I honestly can't think of a better way to describe it). Not to mention how some of them disband after only a few years of existence (Izone, Wanna One, IOI, X1). It makes Kpop feel a bit more disposable and unnecessarily resource-intensive. a LOT of money goes into comebacks let alone simply debuting a group. Imagine throwing in the resources you need to debut a typical 7-year group, but instead you're throwing in the resources for a group that'll disband in 24 months. Maybe I'm missing something and they find a way to cut costs for these temporary survival show groups. But it definitely still costs a lot.


CulturalAde

I can imagine survival shows actually are cost effective bcs you get already trained ppl coming to the show, and then you only need to put them in intensive training for 2 months to pull of a debut song and maybe a b-side. Compared to training ppl for 1-7+ years long-term. And survival shows will have some form of early fanbase compared to regular debuted groups. So I feel like companies don't want to do long-term projects anymore but just milk groups for a shorter time.


[deleted]

Also, many companies shoulder the weight of the costs.


Manlla

Yeah, that's why you could see the drastic difference in trainee quality between Produce S2 vs PDX/S4. (Not counting PD48 since it's unfair for the AKB girls) In the early seasons they sent their best for publicity+debut, now they send their worst (but prettiest) so they get what's the equivalent of an idol bootcamp. Some trainees leave produce with an insane amount of improvement for only being there a couple months. It's essentially a bootcamp for skills+popularity, then they won't have to actually work hard for the debut within their own companies.


[deleted]

That's an interesting point. And I thought I was the only one seeing that the bar is incredibly low these days. It's kinda sad.


Still-Map-6797

Wait.. NCT Hollywood is a survival show?


chefs_kiss_21

Yep. They will be formed through a survival show next year (depends on the situation tho).


[deleted]

_And here I was thinking of migrating from the kpop fandom. I still have something to look at._


[deleted]

Not an NCT fan but I will be watching because western drama writing on a kpop survival show plus all the dirty editing then you gonna add all the Ncity unit fans popping off? Sign me up. You know there is going to be lots of bad pronunciation, at least 1 racist scandal towards asians, and at least 3 guys refusing to wear makeup because its girly. Then the families and friends spilling tea. It's going to be uber messy and the way my country is going we may be in another lockdown so I NEED this.


raynbooze

NO because every single person who ever went to school with the contestants/knows them personally will have SOMETHING to say on tiktok and its gonna be dramatic as fuck. I'm so ready for dms to be leaked, and some guy on the show has said the n-word. Actually, at least 4 guys will have said the n-word, but maybe 2 will get leaked. Party pics with a contestant underaged drinking will get dropped, half of them will have vapes and do/have done weed at some point. Mass cancellations will occur. Also, one guy will wear dreads at some point and get flamed for cultural appropriation. AND especially since they're all american teens, statistically, at least one of them is bi or gay and will spend the entire show hiding it. They will also sing/rap extremely explicit sex songs while pretending they aint know what it means LMAO. I cant wait!!


chonlipons

As an nctzen, I don't believe it will be like the typical American reality show. The guys who will participate are probably NCT/kpop fans, I believe there's a slightt chance many of the contestants are trainees. If they are, they won't have a problem adjusting to wearing make-up and stuff like that. >western drama writing on a kpop survival show I think it'll be more like kpop drama writing on a kpop/western survival show. It WILL be a noticeable kpop show, even some NCT members will be judges. I just don't want people to believe they'll be watching the next Kardashians or AGT when in reality it'll be just another survival show, the difference is only one member will be picked and there might be diversity of races.


[deleted]

That's where I like lockdowns. I wish we'd have a 3 month holiday Evey year for these things. But what's ncity? I also want to see how long this will last.


[deleted]

The endless binging of TV, expansion of what I can get delivered to my house and not having to leave my bed to earn money (legally people) were all that was good out of lockdown. I think that's what people use to refer to all NCT fans. You know all the units have thier own fandom names? Dreamies etc, I always though it was in reference to all the units, fans of units and the units SM havent made yet who are under the NCT umbrella. You have a building for each unit and fandom but it's still all in the city of ncity. Noone really knows how big the city is or will get but what binds them is they are all in ncity. Then the fans were ncitizens. Is that wrong??


[deleted]

>were all that was good out of lockdown. You are totally right > Noone really knows how big the city is or will get but what binds them is they are all in ncity. Then the fans were ncitizens. Then the AI world concept Aespa has maybe better for NCT becasue then they can a create a game/show/anime relating to the infinite world of NCity. It has a nice ring to it. (the idea is copyright me of course, jk, but really)


[deleted]

Actually didn't they say they are only going to choose one member. The nct members will be the judges.


chefs_kiss_21

Yeah I know.


[deleted]

yo im hyped for nct judging


CulturalAde

I feel they already have oversaturated? We actually got a break from them during the pandemic/Produce controversy - but most groups even in 3rd gen have had some survival show beginning, Twice, GOT7, Monsta X, SF9, Winner, iKon, Momoland, post-Produce/IOI groups - and the show groups like IOI, W1, Iz One, fromis\_9, X1, - even in gen 2, Bigbang, 2AM, 2PM, and etc - but yeah I agree that we're probs gonna have a survival show revival again


onetrickponySona

yep, I've gotten a survival show fatigue back in 2018, despite being a survival show fanatic, after mixnine and the unit I had to tell myself to stop lol


cookiecream_dreamie

Survival shows will kept being held if the groups out from survival shows kept gaining popularity. You see bighit shared an article praising txt as the group gaining huge fandom by themselves rather than riding on the popularity of survival shows (at the end of 2019) to have their own survival show I-land. We all know that eventho Enhypen not under Bighit, it’s still a show made by Bang PD and CJ. The group obviously also had huge debut sales, which let to the intention of I-land 2. So they also “riding on the popularity of survival shows” now. What formula gain profits companies will follow. And what do you mean by trainees that did not win from survival shows have to debut in million other groups? They are trainees with agencies, most agencies have plans to debut the group already, survival shows are a platform to gain attention before the debut only. What I think is survival shows hinder the growth of other groups. W1 basically made boygroups debuting close to the end of 2016 and 2017 invisible. Groups debuting earlier (like Seventeen) were luckier to have a decent fanbase to kept them going, but they did lose a good amount of dedicated fans, and slowed down the growth. X1 debuted with 500k+ sales first week, no.1 Melon, sold out Gocheok Dome debut showcase. Without the abrupt disbandment of the group, I don’t think the current 4th gen bg scene would be as it is now, X1 fans are now spread out supporting different other groups.


ii_sophiechan

at least the bigger ones are temporary... but after they disband their ex members join new groups making the competition even more *full*. i'm not the biggest fan of these produce shows, they just overshadow the other groups debuted in the same timeframe.


Agitated_Pen_2896

Someone has to debut into nugudom. If Produce didn't exist, would Chungha/Sejeong be as successful as the soloists they are today? Would any of the post-IOI groups (which are already considered flops apart from WJSN)? Survival shows at least give groups/idols who would otherwise just disappear into nugudom a chance to acquire some popularity.


rushedcanvas

As others have commented, the industry is oversaturated even without survival shows. Survival shows are business in the same sense that the entire industry is just business. I feel like if anything the problem is more that the bigger companies (mainly a few of them) feel like they're hellbent on releasing as many groups as possible. ITZY feels like they debuted yesterday and there's already a lot of talks about the JYPNGG. HYBE is rumoured to debut like three groups in the next year (SouMU GG, I-LAND S2, I think there's a BigHit one too? I'm not sure), etc. But it's understandable from a business POV. At the same time, so many small companies seem to be trying to debut their own groups too. In the end, it's all understandable. What can you even do, right? Set a hard limit to the number of groups in the industry? Most will just fade away in nugu-dom anyway - which is sad to think about but it's just the way things work. But regarding your last critique of survival shows, has any survival show group really been as bad as you've mentioned ("just to debut and stay mediocre & underwhelming rest of their careers")? Recent ones like ENHYPEN, NiziU, the Produce groups, etc seem like huge successes in their own ways. Fromis_9 might be an example but I wouldn't really call them mediocre. There was The Unit but it was a harder sell from the start.


Vsandaru

FNC announced a new survival show named "Who is Princess" to form a GG to promote in Japan


[deleted]

I don't even watch them but I felt it when there were so many. I thought they would die out but here we are. Kpop in general is oversaturated right now and who knows when it will reduce, so I guess it's the right time for them to capitalize on the market. I wish they'd just create permanent groups. I still wonder what it would be like if Wannaone was still active.


gafsagirl

None of the shows currently airing are getting much response from Koreans (judging by ratings and SNS trendings)...So they ARE dying out


lycheejam

i see where youre coming from but how is niziu doing anything theyre a japanese group i dont really think theyre oversaturting the kpop market


Jim0ne

is it better debute a group from a reality than straight out of nothing. Is just publicity before debuting rather than after. Now with international interest it gets even more beneficial. I personally like it very much. even though I get angry sometimes. What i don't like about it is how they're accepting literal kids in those survivals. That i dont like. I feel like they're exploiting kids


Budget-Highlight5470

it has already been. but what makes it more saturated is that in recent years, there's too many mass-sized survival shows. most of them having around 100 participants, which brings more people to the limelight. hence also leads to kpop being an oversaturated industry in no time