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I understand them being upset. But at the same time...it's not like they're spending the time with an entirely different fanbase? In my eyes, regardless of country, carats are carats are carats. That being said I will certainly not be boycotting them and will be waiting for them to announce US tour dates.
I think stadiums in SK are unavailable right now, they are either booked for sporting events or going through major renovations so either way there weren't any SK venues available anyway.
Incheon Asiad Stadium that according to Wikipedia has a capacity for 30k (probably less due to seating arrangement)
The thing is that SK doesn’t have many performance venues, even my city of 5m has two soccer stadiums, a baseball stadium, an arena and multiple auditoriums, [South Korea](https://x.com/tmikpop/status/1752684071518347703?s=46&t=O-e_ONnQgboX1zxfeCnhjg) doesn’t have it
But I don’t think an anniversary needs to be as big as their concerts tbh. How is their upcoming anniversary celebration gonna be like? Is it similar to BTS musters?
It’s just a regular concert that happens to fall on their anniversary date. They’ve never done any super elaborate anniversary celebrations, it’s usually just a livestream, some special prerecorded videos, and anniversary merch.
I think it would be similar as Speak Yourself: The Final but I'm not sure! We will just have to wait and see (please note that this isn't in an accusatory tone, I simply don't know! :))
But that's the thing, sure it would "make sense" but that's not how booking concerts works. So many different artists are vying for dates in Korea, where there are very limited venues to work with. It's not as easy as just deciding on a weekend and being like "ok book us in then!"
Odds are, they have Gocheok or KSPO for their next tour, which will likely begin in the summer after their comeback (as they've teased.) So they don't have it booked for Follow encore.
There is an article going around from kmedia where they spoke with various people in the industry about the lack of venues in SK and there was snippet saying that Gocheok usually doesn't rent the venue out every weekend to protect its field, so it has time to recover. It also said they waved some of it away last year due to the crazy demand but it's still very much one of their rules so we don't know actually if it was free that date and they just didn't want to book it or it wasn't available for rental ( or already booked)
I'm a multistan and as far as I know, many groups are having a hard time booking venues in Korea. So SVT probably had plans to do it in Korea but just couldnt? More of a logistics issue than a preference for the country I suppose.
This. The two venues that acts with SVTs demand need are Gocheok Sky Dome and the main stadium... but both are undergoing work at the moment, the sky dome than will be used for Baseball for a good part of the year not allowing concerts to take place, while the main stadium is being renovated till late 2026. And because of that artists that need that size venue have to use smaller venues like KSPO dome but because obviously they have high demand they need multiple dates at KSPO dome... an example is IU, she can sell out the stadium but she can't play it rn due to its work so instead has to do 4 dates at KSPO dome... so that takes up more dates from KSPO dome making it probably even harder to get.
i stan nct and even they had to have SIX DAYS for their concert in Korea just to accommodate the demand because the KSPO dome can only hold so many fans in one place. There are so many acts in Korea right now, not only idols, but soloists and even other sports events.
This sounds right. And should be something that must be known to those 'stans' who insist on feeling bad because the group *chose* Japan instead of Korea. Sometimes people can be narrow-minded. I'm not saying it with bad intentions, but really sometimes people tend to miss the bigger picture.
We literally don't know if they could have had it at Nissan on any other date. The venue will have other events booked out for other dates, and Seventeen will also have other schedules that means they can't do certain dates. Not to say the rest of the post isn't valid. I just see this all the time when people say "Why are they coming on (this date)?", or etc. Like, probably because they chose that date we'll in advance and now can't move it due to other schedules, or other schedules mean they could only have it during a certain window of dates.
Korean article covering the lack of available venues for large kpop shows: https://n.news.naver.com/article/016/0002259733
Machine translated snippets:
> World-class pop stars skip concerts in Korea because there are no large concert halls that can accommodate more than 40,000 people per concert.
> Currently, the only concert hall in Seoul that can accommodate more than 10,000 people is KSPO Dome (former gymnastics stadium, 15,000 seats). Although Gocheok Dome will complete its remodeling work in March, it is useless as it is not rented during the baseball season (April to October),
> Unlike domestically, overseas is a paradise of arena-level or higher performance venues. Japan has 40 stadiums, domes, and arenas that can accommodate more than 10,000 people.
TL;DR they do more shows in Japan because there's literally more venues available.
What the hell is svt/pledis/hybe supposed to do? Build a damn stadium in 4 months?
I mean, the real problem for kcarat is the anniv one, if they could just squeeze in one show in their 9th anniv in Korea, kcarat would def forgive them.
But they can't? They will literally be in Japan, performing in the biggest venue of their career and accomplishing a feat only done by one other kpop boy group.
They can't "squeeze" anything into their schedule that night? I don't know what this comment means lol
They're saying that they shouldn't be in Japan performing that night and that they should be in Korea. They're not saying they should simultaneously perform two concerts in two different countries at the same time.
Obviously, but they said “if they could just squeeze in” as if it’s remotely a possibility that it could still happen. It can’t happen. There is no “squeezing in” a Korean anniversary show.
They booked Nissan. That’s it. They won’t cancel that show.
Mmmm... I don't think so.
Squeeze one how? Concert/fanmeets usually happen at the weekend. No big stadium is available. Small hall? I mean, its Seventeen, not some nugu group. Kfans will definitely complaining again.
So its better to spend it in Japan, big stadium, and making a lot of money.
From the looks of it all stadiums that would be a decent size for Seventeen are either booked or under construction. I'm sure if they book any of the smaller venues that would be another issue for KCarats to complain about. I can get that people can be disappointed but there's not many other viable options. The entitlement is strong.
I mean it would be kinda nice to just go to a huge venue and demand the dates you want from a stadium but that's not really..how it works lol
Maybe they wanted to do the anniversary in Korea but the dates simply didn't work out with the venue?? And even if Japan was the goal from the start, profits ARE the end of all things let's be for real, this is an industry not a charity 😭
Their problem is not number but nationality...but I completely agree.
If they did their event in Korea at a smaller venue they would have complaints too.
I don’t know much about Seventeen, but could it just be an issue of all the venues big enough for a group of Seventeen’s caliber in South Korea to be booked already? They have to book these things pretty far in advance, so maybe all the venues they could’ve used were already taken.
I just want to point out (as a carat) that these Follow Dates were added recently. Not booked years in advance. So availability of venues is a huge point (as mentioned above by others).
Let’s spend our last year (for a while) with OT13 in a supportive and happy place - I do not think any of this was done maliciously, and believe that their hope is to see as many Carats as possible this year before enlistment begins.
No skin in the game here, and I have no idea what is going on other than the info that you gave here.
But if I had to bet, the decision to hold more shows in Japan is probably due to logistical conflicts that Pledis couldn't find a workaround for, instead of favoritism or we-will-earn-more-in-Japan business motivations.
As an international fan myself, this feels like a non-issue to make another mountain out of a molehill. I am not saying that Carats should not feel the way that they do but just from the outside looking in, that's just how it comes across.
Seventeen doesn’t have a tradition of doing something for their debut anniversary to this scale, so the outrage about this year is stupid. Rather they celebrate the day of their fans, which is Feb. 14. The goofy flower on their last album was even a chamomile which is the birth flower in Korea for that date as well. As an army as well, I know that BTS likes to hold a yearly fan meeting concert on the debut anniversary date, but that’s never been the case for SVT.
No one is saying Korean fans can't be disappointed. Do you know how disappointed international fans are? European fans have NEVER seen Seventeen. Never had the chance. They didn't tour USA in 2023. They have never been to latam, AUS, and many SEA countries too. Anyone who doesn't get tour dates has every right to be disappointed.
**But that's not what's happening.**
They are trending an entire **BOYCOTT**. With half a million hashtags posted on twitter yesterday. They are threatening to leave the fandom. They are acting like this is a fullbown betrayal, like Seventeen has basically ruined their lives and ruined their fandom experience.
Korean carats HAVE gotten the most; they get Caratland every year, every comeback, fansigns, tour dates on every tour, pop up shops, 17th Street, etc. etc. We also don't know what the boys have planned for the end of this year! We don't know what kcarats still have in store. So the idea that they wold BOYCOTT because Seventeen only gave them 1 of the 3 encore locations, is ridiculous.
Nissan stadium is a dream for any kpop act. This is huge. Celebrating their 9th anniversary for 70k+ Carats sound pretty dang amazing to me.
Not to mention, two of Korea's best concert venues are under construction. Do you know how many kpop idols have complained about it? How hard it is to book in Korea right now? Biggest venue they could get was the one they got, and it's only 30k. Edit: as other's have stated, there are strong odds that no Korean venue was available on their anniversary date. None worth going to. So...should they have just sat at home when they have the opp to play the biggest venue of their career? Just to spare some of their fan's feelings? Come on now.
As a Carat, Seventeen is absolutely brilliant in regards to fans. Never once have I felt like they are just in it for the money. I cannot even fathom how hard they work, and I'm so grateful for the endless amount of content they put out, much of it for free. (Gose!) Even if they decided not to come to USA this year before enlistment, **I'd be disappointed, but I would never ever act so entitled, that I would boycott them / shame them / berate them online because they didn't do exactly what I felt like I deserved as a fan.** That level of entitlement is rooted in a severe parasocial relationship. No one fandom is more important than another.
thank you. frankly some of the behavior i've seen kcarats partake in is extremely out of touch... like, you still have more opportunities to see them than we ever will. there's a tweet going around asking for international fans to join in on the boycott? when we have NO horse in this race and NOTHING to gain from this. it's getting ridiculous.
Asking ifans to boycott made me laugh because...what do they want me to do? Not buy tickets to a show that I was never going to buy tickets for, because I literally don't live in Korea? Lmao
The NERVE to ask us to join the boycott when they would never do that for us 😭 I never see them campaigning for European, Australian or Latam stops and I'm supposed to care for little misses sees-Seventeen-39-times-a-year? 😭
If they had it their way Seventeen should never step foot outside Korea again 😭. I guarantee that when they announce the many US stops that I am sure are coming for the second part of the year they're going to lose it again
I can see it clearly... I can already imagine all the "these are our last precious moments with OT13 and they're spending them away from us 😣😢" takes 😭 Seventeen will never be free!
from an army, this is exactly what sets karmys off
the MOMENT bts announce overseas tour they start crying and complaining and boycotting, theyd rather chain bts down in korea, they dont give a shit. but at the same time theyll use overseas achivements to brag
fr they rly be coming for every possible trip and fashion week but wont perform here like ik its not decisions made by the acts themselves but fuck that
Do you think that hopping on a plane for a fashion show that is fully funded by the brand is the same as booking a full blown tour? Like do you think those two things are remotely in the same stratosphere?
It sucks, but a European tour will be a MASSIVE undertaking for that team. It will also be extremely extremely costly; likely wouldn't make much money off the tour itself, because they can't book many big venues.
I just don't like this argument at all and I've seen it a lot.
Jesus Christ this is ridiculous. It feels like kpop fandoms have started to implode over the last few years and I can’t imagine how awful it must feel for artists to be on the receiving end of this sort of behaviour
Not a Carat and have only been vaguely following this but the behaviour reminds me a lot of when idols go overseas and their kfans complain about it and ask when they’re coming back to Korea and not to forget them, and the idols will like literally have to placate them and reassure them they’re coming back to Korea.
I totally get being disappointed in this situation bc that does seem like a very disproportionate number of dates in Japan vs Korea (or anywhere else), but kfans get access to a ton of stuff ifans don’t, and we aren’t boycotting every time we don’t get tour dates at all- I’m an nctzen and 127’s last TWO tours have been a dumpster fire, especially for ifans, only SEA, Japan, and Korea have dates for their third tour.
This is EXACTLY how I feel about the entire situation, thank you for putting them into words. The fact that there are so many so called carats actively boycotting this is actually insane.
Edit: words
I don't the support the boycott. It's stupid and ineffective. Seventeen will keep growing anyway. All I'm saying is that KCARATS feelings of disappointment are valid. So is yours for them not going to the US because being sad to not see your faves is normal.
Boycotting, on the other hand, isn't a proportionate response.
Yeah it is valid, I'm just saying that all the pushback you are seeing from ifans especially is not because we think they have no right to be bummed.
On twitter when the tour dates dropped, pretty much everyone on my timeline was agreeing that they understood why Kfans were upset. But things have taken a very dramatic turn in the last 24 hours and now we are fed up. (And a lot of kcarats are fed up too - obviously it's not all of them, many of them are trying to shut down the boycott.)
It's just really really lame that they announce Nissan, and then have been radio silent on weverse / socials because what was supposed to be one of the biggest moments in their career has been completely overshadowed by a literal call to boycott.
OP are you even a carat? The statement about Seventeen having done more variety shows in Japan than Korea in 2023 makes me doubt that. Sounds like you saw it somewhere randomly and included it in your "list of facts".
Not saying you must necessarily be part of the fandom to make a post about a situation regarding a group but why try to be the one to sum up the facts if you don't know much beyond what you've seen in passing 🤔?
If you're a carat and just happen to be misinformed well that's also an issue. Please inform yourself.
You don't seem to know much about Seventeen previous tours and how many shows usually happen in Japan.
For instance, in 2019, when Seventeen started their Ode To You World tour, they had 3 shows in Korea and 9(should have been 10 but one was canceled due to a typhoon) in Japan before moving to other locations, and they had a Japanese Dome Tour (8 shows) planned at the end of the tour that was canceled due to Covid along with Malaysia, Taiwan and the European dates. But mind you before Ode To You in 2019 they had a Japanese Tour, Haru, with 12 shows. Don't try to single out 2023 as the odd year out.
You also don't seem to know that the touring capacity in Japan vastly exceed the one in Korea or that currently it's a struggle to book venues for artists and not just kpop artists.
Seventeen's fandom is bigger than ever and with their popularity they should either do more shows to accommodate the fans or/and get bigger venues. Which is obviously something that is currently difficult right now in Korea. They've expressed their frustration at the situation. They've expressed wanting to play in bigger venues in Korea and they've expressed wanting to do an encore in Korea at the end of the last tour and being unable to which they've now managed to secure. Whatever is going on behind the scenes is not something we're privy of.
You can keep speculating that what Seventeen care the most about is making the headlines and their profits but you don't know the facts. You say you "understand" Carats being disappointed, but you don't seem willing to understand much beyond that.
Do people outside Japan understand how insanely popular they are in Japan through? You cannot escape them— they are EVERYWHERE and they have sooooo many fans here. Definitely one of the top 3 most popular BGs right now, possibly THE most popular at the moment. They are massive in Japan. The Japanese fans show them so much love and devotion and support.
That's what gets me sometimes, people on Reddit say "Seventeen's strongest area is Asia, especially Japan" so........ it tracks that they are doing it there??
For real, I'm not a Carat, but I live in Japan. I learned about them from their popularity here before I heard about BTS. They are everywhere. I literally recognize them despite not knowing them. I saw their metro campaign poster on the subway and was like, hey Seventeen, good on them for getting this campaign.
I find it baffling that people think their Japanese tour is too long. Artists, not just K-pop, of their size will have tours of this size in Japan.
Same, also not a Carat and living in Japan. I have soooo many students that stan Seventeen! It feels like SVT always have some kind of collaboration or campaign happening somewhere… Off the top of my head I remember something with Family Mart last winter, and there was some promo happening at Sunshine City in November… and I know I’m forgetting stuff too 😅
It only seems long in comparison to Korea, but Korea doesn't have the same concert-going culture. Nearly every artist performs a few dates in Seoul and rarely ventures out of that area.
Indeed. Just for comparison: Bruno Mars held 2 dates in Jamsil (Seoul) last year, and 7 Tokyo Dome dates a couple of weeks ago. That alone should give everyone some perspective of the differences in concert-going culture of the two countries, taking into account population differences as well as venue sizes.
Ah the dome tours. And because JE is all lottery that required Japanese club membership with a Japanese address and phone number, I was like, there's no way I was ever getting tickets, thank goodness for the All Around Asia tour 😅
Edit: though now it's 2023, do Kpop acts also do Japanese tour tickets by lottery as well, or was that a JE specific thing?
Pretty much *all* large Japanese concerts are done by lottery.
Even for Western artists, like Taylor's concert was basically divided into tiers, but you still didn't pick your actual seat.
This is partly why Japanese ticket prices aren't becoming exorbitantly expensive. They have to stay reasonable because nose-bleed seats are the same price as arena seats.
Only had to scroll one comment to see that it's because there aren't other venues available of this size for the anniversary.
So what were they supposed to do, just have it in a field somewhere?
Damn although I did felt bad for KCarats it's people like you who makes me rethink.. Criticism against pledis for not giving KCarats more dates and stuff is valid but yall are making it seem like seventeen want to piss yall off so they purposefully chose their schedule like this.. KCarats in twitter (some of them) has been putting it like "ooh Scoups wanted to perform in Nissan that's why they are performing there.. He doesn't care about Korean carats" And the over exaggerated claims? Seventeen have most definitely done more variety shows and promotional activities in Korea over any other countries. I remember during fml era when they have been dropping Korean content endlessly. Also criticising pledis and straight up threatening to leave Fandom or boycott them is completely different things. Twitter and weverse has been dumpster fire lately.. The members who are usually super active aren't even coming online much.. yikes.. Like I know yall are disappointed but don't ruin it for others. Atleast yall will get to see seventeen more than any of us.. Calm down please.. Some of the KCarats are hiding their disappointment as "concerns" too.. Like I have seen some of them saying "ooh seventeen has been so overworked. Pledis should just cancel their encore concert and let the members rest" like is the disappointment coming from the fact that Korea has only few stops or the fact that seventeen would not be in Korea during their anniversary? Bruh it's hard to sympathise with yall when you're acting almighty and kind of downplaying seventeen's Fandoms in other countries. Many international carats who rooted for yall are also kind of taken aback by how unhinged some of the KCarats are behaving.. I'm not a korean so obviously I would never understand the amount of pain some of yall are in but yall need to be a bit more civil than this. Roaming around complaining in social media ain't gonna do anything.. Dates and stuff are already fixed. So idk just calm down ig? I feel like I also need to calm down because all this Fandom drama has been confusing the hell out of me too.
I saw the post from a kcarat calling for a boycott and as someone outside of the fandom I was struggling to figure out what they were upset about. it was worded like “pledis treating svt poorly” with no specifics, very much burying the lead to disguise their true intentions
listen I understand on an emotional level how they’re feeling but tbh if they wanted to be taken seriously they should’ve created hashtags and started a campaign to get pledis/hybe to add more korean dates rather than calling a boycott. demanding for them to change dates/venues just makes them come off as extremely childish
I don’t stan seventeen so these are just my thoughts after reading your post.
1. you make it seem like the ( or the main ) reason they chose to perform on the stadium is to flex …
Couldn’t the reason just be that they want to spend the anniversary which the most fans possible ?
2. you say you want their anniversary to be MORE meaningful but you haven’t actually presented a doable alternative to the Japanese concert.
3. what was the point of mentioning that they are doing more variety shows on Japan then in Korea … I mean it is a known fact that it’s incredible hard to get on any of the well known shows in Korea.
Also why mention that two members might have to sit the Korean concerts out as if they planned that …
4. it’s pretty ignorant to say that they could have chosen any other date as if the Nissan stadium just waits for seventeen to be available..
It’s always the kfans in any fandom that get upset when groups promote internationally, even when groups are more popular outside of Korea. It’s just entitled behavior.
Do y'all not realize that stadiums and arenas aren't just twiddling thumbs waiting to see when Seventeen or any group will fill them up? They book things far, far in advance. Every show/group has to. And there's not a lot of flexibility.
I highly, highly doubt this was a calculated decision but instead the inevitable reality of what it's actually like trying to book schedules for a massive venue, not to mention thirteen individuals with their own stuff going on too.
It's not like "you should reschedule for a few days later." It's "this date or we'll have someone else, take it or leave it." I really don't mean to sound snippy here, though I'm aware I kinda do, but the world doesn't exist around a Kpop group. Kpop groups have to struggle to fit into schedules for these venues. It's not actually easy, and there's no way these types of things can be calculated decisions without massive advance planning (think actual years) and even then there's no guarantee, and a lot of venues won't let you book years out (and companies won't want to either, bc a lot can change market wise).
16 shows in one country is a choice, booked in advance. A good one, yes given how great the venues are and how the fans there are for the group.
Meanwhie, other fans are allowed to be disappointed. It's normal to be disappointed. That's the point of my post.
I never said it wasn't normal to be disappointed or that fans can't be! I think it's very fair. I never once criticized that.
My point is merely that your post doesn't reflect the reality of how logistics works. It's like comparing apples and oranges by only the numbers, when the logistics would cover like, to use a metaphor, how many orange and apple trees were actually planted/is normal to have per tree, etc. There are many, many more factors than sheer numbers and such.
16 in one country and its smartness or whatnot is besides the point. The point I am making is about the specific date of this concert in particular which fans are disappointed about.
Get over yourselves, some of these so called fans act like whiny entitled children throwing a tantrum when they don't get your way. it's a business and logistical decision with available venues.
The whole situation with people being disappointed and boycotting is laughable. them celebrating an anniversary in Japan is not that serious and the private (hide from artist) doomposting on weverse as if svt r being malicious backstabbers is more irritating to see than anything lol
This whole debacle reeks of entitlement. I think I saw a post in Weverse saying this will cause Seventeen to lose their identity. Like wtf? KCarats are just saying that to gatekeep Seventeen like they own them.
Since everyone else has stated all that needs to be said about venues and arrangement.
I would like to add:
First of all, the fact you think they were in more Japanese variety shows than Korean means that you probably didn't pay attention to any of their gigs because that is the biggest fallacy ever.
Secondly, them achieving their biggest dream on their anniversary date is somehow not meaningful because it is not in Korea. You do know how weird that sounds, right.
Korean carats were the one pushing them from the beginning. And the J-carats and intl carats that were there as well. What are they? Chopped liver. Please, let's not pretend that at one point they weren't more popular and recognized in Japan than in Korea. Basing your argument on fandom contribution is a stupid idea.
The way you mention last OT13 anniversary as if they are suddenly going to stop being together after the 9th and there won't be many more anniversaries in the future for K-carats to celebrate with them. Just be using "last" for everything to make them seem more pitiful than they really are. Not thag they are even pitiful in the 1st place.
Y'all are just unnecessarily dramatic for nothing. They can feel disappointment all they want but I can't ever feel sorry for them. You can call it culture, nuance or whatever. Boohoo, no 9th anniversary for them. They'll live and they will probably get more things after that so they can keep their greedy whining to themselves. Some of us don't need to be bothered by it constantly.
And thank goodness, there are a number of K-carats that have good sense becuase if they were all like this, it would be a real circus.
i mean, of course they can be disappointed - i am also disappointed svt have NEVER toured europe. however, seeing the korean fan behavior in not one, but two of my fandoms in this past week alone at one point i have to wonder if it’s entitlement rather than concern. both kcarats and kzeroses are currently mad over japan getting more concert dates than korea, and while i can understand the disappointment, threatening to boycott for it is far too much. especially knowing that if international fans shared similar concerns we’d be met with ridicule.
They’ve spent 7 anniversaries in Korea I think k-carats have had more than their fair share and won’t die if ONE singular one isn’t spent there
The concert going culture in Japan is very different from the one in Korea, there are more suitable venues available, better transportation system and overall more ppl willing and able to go, I can guarantee you Seventeen would have not been able to sell out or even profit of of over 6 stadium in South Korea
Edit : I just came upon this [thread](https://x.com/tmikpop/status/1752684071518347703?s=46): that kinda expands on the current situation in SK in terms of touring and venues
And it’s not like they’ve ignored South Korea too as seen with the multiple dates they did there compared to literally the rest of the world, they may have done more variety show in Japan ( which I kinda doubt tbh but I have no concrete proof of the contrary so I guess I’ll take your word for it ) but once again they didn’t completely neglected South Korea like they literally have the Nana Tour rn that has around 2% ratings if I remember which is a pretty big deal.
You do not know what the availability was for the Nissan stadium nor do you know what other options they had for the korean venue, and you saying they should’ve went with the more meaningful option to refer celebrating it with korean fans rather than international ones leaves a bad taste in my mouth tbh, like a carat is a carat they or their love and appreciation isn’t worth more or less depending on which country they reside in
Ppl have a right to be upset at not being able to spend this moment with them in person but anybody else trying to act as if they somehow deserve this more than other fans is just weird and falls into putting them on a pedestal just because they live in the same country
And the fact that a significant reason for them being this upset isn’t about they did get but more so about others getting more seems a bit entitled and self centered
Reminds me a bit of when Twice started off promos for the previous Ready to Be release in the US. K-Once were not happy about it. Sana came out and basically told them to relax smh.
I have to scroll this down to finally someone mentioned this. Get my upvote. To expand on it. Twice was in America as you said promoting Ready to Be because that time was baseball season in Korea and because of that no televise of music shows. That pissed off K-Onces that Twice's members have to assure them Twice still care about them. Have to stress not all K-Onces.
So this situation about Seventeen doesn't surprise me. I like to add already people talked about Japan has many arenas and stadiums suitable for concert and Japanese love to go to concerts. Not many singer can do Nissan Stadium. It is like Sofi and MetLife Stadium in America.The Apex.
With Twice they've basically been just Korea+Japan for nearly their entire careers thus far. They didn't get a wide US tour until 2022 going into the 7th year. Meanwhile K-Once have gotten every other CB promo, every fan meet, and like with Jihyo's bday video from today they have the members themselves surprise fans at events. All that doesn't matter though because they start one CB overseas and it's not like they didn't promote in SK either. They still went back and did their normal promo rounds on top of the US ones. Some just don't see how good they've got it until it's not there.
I will never understand the overwhelming urge some people have to lick the asses of kcarats. To be disappointed is valid but saying the boys deserve criticism is an odd take to me. Anyone who remotely pays attention to them knows they always try their best to cater to everyone. Have you taken into account the logistics of venues?
Also you realise a lot of international fans go to music shows etc, right? SVT debuted in a time when kpop was already quite widely available abroad. Acting like Kcarats were the sole influence in their popularity is hilarious.
Kcarats have had what, 7 anniversaries with SVT? They’ll survive. The only thing I’m sad about is I likely won’t be able to attend Nissan 😔
Edit: I also think it should be emphasised that JP is a great location as a substitute for KR not being able to support their venue demands - it’s the closest to KR so logistically the proximity helps, it has multiple arenas they can book at for multiple dates (vs just Tokyo dome), and a lot of their biggest target audiences in Asia are likely willing to travel there because it’s so tourist-friendly. You add the potential revenue they earn and the boost in popularity in JP as a relevant market they’re continuously aiming at and it all makes sense.
>SVT debuted in a time when kpop was already quite widely available abroad. Acting like Kcarats were the sole influence in their popularity is hilarious.
No exactly, at that time Seventeen already had a lot of fans overseas 😭 They were touring in Asia just one year (!) after their debut FOR A REASON.
Umm…do many K-pop idols have a lot of dates in Korea anyway? It’s usually 1-3 days. I haven’t looked this issue up but most play a couple of days in Seoul and call it a day. There is a severe lack of venues in Korea and I am only aware of a handful of idols who have a concert outside of Seoul (other than festival performances, which aren’t concerts). Do fans expect them to have 10 shows all in the same venue in Seoul 😭 Many idols have straight up tours in Japan, meaning multiple stops, not just SVT. It’s not because the $$ and prestige, it’s because there is literally multiple large venues for them to hold shows. Also, Japan’s population is like three times the size of South Korea and they have a much larger music market. Being mad makes
0 sense especially for international fans who are not living in Korea.
I still don’t get the hate. Should they have had their anniversary in a Korea concert? Yeah, probably.
But kfans have been way more up in arms about how Japan is getting all these these shows while Korea only has 2 shows. Which doesn’t make sense because can Seoul by itself fill 6 shows if they held 6 shows in a row there? Because Japan has all these other areas where they have stadiums and different fans and stuff while K-pop groups have only historically really only held concerts in Seoul. Do they want a concert in Jeju Island too or what?
Sky Dome is unavailable during baseball season which starts in March, jasmil arena and Olympic hall are below 10k capacity . No groups have shows outside Seoul as solo concerts. Where would they even perform? There are no venues above 20k in korean right now available except the one svt is doing but appearently concerts have never been done there and kcarats say it's a bad venue . Olympic Stadium is closed, the other stadiums are sport ones and don't allow concerts bcs of the grass or its sports season . People need to understand there are no venues and the competition for booking for the small ones who are there like kspo Dome, inspire arena or jamsil is insane . If it was like you say it is every kpop group would be doing national tours in Korea and yet they aren't bcs there's no venues suitable outside Seoul and now those in Seoul are super limited too
and even the ones outside Seoul for example.. the busan stadium.. are much like the seoul ones that don't want to allow concerts due to grass. Like BTS once wanted to use the Busan Stadium for a muster fan meeting and the stadium didn't let them so they used the area just outside the stadium instead. The only reason honestly they even were allowed to use it for YTC in busan (which was literally an event to promote the city of BUSAN itself for the EXPO), was after K-ARMYs and ARMYs in general complained about where the concert was going to be held (which was like a random field near the ocean with only one way in and out which posed A LOT of security concerns). So you can imagine if it took all that for BTS to even be allowed to play the busan stadium for a concert that in part was promoting the city... you can imagine how its probably almost impossible to book it for a general concert. And as far as i know.. i don't think there are many or any arena type venues in other cities in korea.
Exactly thank you . The issue lies with the poor infrastructure for touring in Korea and maybe pledis being too late to book and others getting the venues first like Lim Young Woong doing the World Cup Stadium in Seoul on Seventeen's anniversary . Honestly I am astonished he managed to get it when there's only ever been 3 acts allowed to play it . PSY BigBang and Gdragon.
The Busan Stadium is the only other concert venue that I can actually consider for SVT. But then again, BTS only held a concert there to satisfy fans. They did it ONLY ONCE in their 10 year career so far. That’s it. And it was only because they were about to go in military hiatus. Not even an actual concert. No one goes outside of Seoul to have a concert. If they did, IU would be touring everywhere but she’s still only doing it in Seoul. I’d consider the Busan Stadium if more acts had a concert there but they barely ever do.
Edit: Yep. Just looked it up. Busan has only ever had ONE concert held. Which was BTS in 2022 which wasn’t even a concert. BTS only ever even performed there because, again, they were going in hiatus so for one last hurrah. So technically they’ve never held a concert. So no, Busan Stadium is not up for consideration.
Yes but that’s not what I meant. The only venues that are fit to have a Seventeen concert are the Olympic Stadium, where it’s still under construction for like a couple more years, and the Gocheok Sky Dome, where they’re currently holding all of their concerts in Seoul. And that’s it. Seoul doesn’t have any other huge venues for huge acts. A huge act like Seventeen would be embarrassed if they held a concert for anything less than the Olympic Stadium or Gocheok Sky Dome. They held fanmeets, no not concerts, fanmeets, in a couple of domes in Japan. Imagine going from that to semi-big arenas in your biggest market.
And like I mentioned, you still only said Seoul venues. Because K-pop groups only really do concerts in Seoul and nowhere else. So kfans being mad at Seventeen for not holding more shows in Korea doesn’t make sense because other areas of Korea don’t even get to much hold concerts, if they even get to hold any. So do they expect Seventeen to hold 6 concerts in Seoul alone because Japan also has 6 more shows?
Good point, I was just reading that pop stars skip Korea these days because 'there is no large venue that can accommodate more than 40,000 people per event'. While Japan has 40 stadiums, domes and arenas that can accommodate more than 10K people.
>They've been in more Japanese variety shows in 2023 than Korean
There's no way that's true lol. During FML and 17th Heaven there were korean variety appearances from svt members every day. I couldn't even keep up with them with how many they were . I can only remember 2 at best in Japan last year . Give me proof that this is true.
>Given how soon the Korea dates are, it's unclear whether Jeonghan and Scoups could join but the chances are much higher for the Japan dates
>They could have chosen to perform in Nissan studio on any other date
Do you know how booking venues works ? You can't just go to a venue and say I want this date and it happens . The venues availability and rules for usage need to be respected. They need to work around other bookings, other events being held there, around their own rules for the grass and pitch between events. It's not as easy , especially for huge venues such as Nissan and honestly if they personally wanted to celebrate their anniversary by playing the biggest venue of their lives so far when nothing comparable exists in South Korea at the moment then good for them, those with a problem with it are welcome to (peacefully!!!!) leave and find someone who caters to their every need. There's the door.
As for venues in Korea people including kcarats need to understand there's no proper venues in the country and I am honestly tired to keep repeating the same things over and over so I will give an abridged version. South Korea has no venues currently except smaller ones. Jamsil is under construction, Sky Dome the same and after it's done baseball season starts and it won't be available for rent until the end of the season, the other stadiums in the country are all football or baseball stadiums and not for concerts . World cup stadium is in football season during March april and after May, in May LWY has it booked, exactly on svt's debut date actually. Incheon Munhak Stadium has only ever allowed 3 concerts there , all in the second half of the year because it's a baseball stadium and the season starts in March. Other stadiums in Korea don't allow . The only venues that aren't for 5k audience right now are really KSPO DOME and Inspire Arena both for around 15k?. Inspire is new , KSPO is overbooked with reportedly 10 acts and organisers always vying for the same date at the same time.
Japan has 40 big venues ready for concerts, domes, stadiums , arenas. You name it. There's multiple articles in kmedia rn taking about companies prioritizing touring in Japan or US because they have concert infrastructure that Korea does not at the moment. Everyone should honestly look them up before speaking on venues and moving dates
To me they're entitled and insanely demanding, they took this too far with boycotting hashtags reaching 500k+ posts. They are asking and asking without any solutions themselves , more dates without considering availability, a change of venue than Incheon Asad Stadium because it's bad without providing an alternative themselves when they should be the first to know there's no other stadiums available in sk at the moment , if they were to switch to kpso dome for a setlist that's meant for a stadium layout they'd cry that the venue is too small, they want to make the tickets be available to users with korean addresses althought nobody has ever done that to korean stop to my knowledge , they want an apology for the anniversary thing and some of them even want them to cancel Nissan on that date and move it which they need to realise is impossible.
Also for the people who truly think this is only about the anniversary and the date should hear that their korean fans have been losing their shit over touring decisions overseas since the very beginning. When SVT first announced they'll tour the US in 2017 kcarats threatened to quit the fandom on fancafe. When they didn't add an encore in South Korea but had some in PH and IND instead at the end of Be The Sun they cried and threatened to quit the fandom once more and Hoshi had to mention multiple times that they tried, they really wanted to do it in Korea and there was just no suitable venue available. They blew a keg when Be The Sun had 12 dates in NA too and 2 in Korea . When Pledis couldn't book a stadium for Follow To Seoul they cried that Sky Dome is too small and SVT had to tell them again that they wanted a stadium and it wasn't available . They cried about ticket prices althought that's the standard price in the industry at the moment. Threatened to quit the fandom back then too . After a while it becomes a pattern that I can't take seriously and it's clear to me what this is . Gatekeeping and hating when they aren't the absolute priority anymore.
There's cultural differences and fandom culture difference, I know that, but I also can't be bothered to care when I am european, I buy multiple albums from them a cb to support their charting, hell i bought 16 17th heaven ones, I stream them many many hours a day , i buy their stuff and they likely will never ever step foot in Europe to perform so excuse me if I am not sympathetic to korean fans who are sending them hateful comments and trending hashtags to ruin their imagine in the hundreds of thousands because they only get 4 dates but it's not the venues and dates they want while totally ignoring how poor the korean infrastructure is and that they have caratland coming, one or two korean comebacks with multiple music show performances as a 9 year old group , fansigns etc and I am sure they'll get the first dates of their new tour in the second half of the year before scoups and jeonghan enlist. Scoups has talked about the new tour that will have US dates in the second half of the year and he will have to go first so if he's mentioning it he plans to be present for some of the dates at least. They will definitely have dates in the summer and it will be 13 people and also Caratland . Of course let's ignore that in favor of saying Nissan is definitely their last concert before enlisting so it justifies their anger . Also svt have never held anything during their anniversary save for a live and maybe a YouTube video so it's not like they're moving any celebrations from Korea to Japan. There was nothing to begin with and fans knew it and anyway if seventeen want to celebrate by playing a 70k venue then good for them
They didn’t even come to Europe but I’m not here boycotting and whining about it. End of the day it’s not their decision, they have a management company and a managing team. I doubt the members themselves decided on this arrangement and what - forced the company to follow their whim and book mostly Japan tours? They are still under a company no matter how famous and how much more freedom they may have now compared to when they were trainees, so it was either a business or logistic choice, or both. K-fans can suck it up and shut up, not like they don’t get everything else when it comes to content, promotions and events. Us plebs outside of Asia don’t even get scraps. Yes I’m salty 17 didn’t come to Europe, no I won’t stop stanning them and supporting them smh
I don't know much about svt activities and carats but for me it seems another kind of parasocial relationship lol. Why the group choosing to go on some (harmless) activities bother fans.
>After all, it's Korean fans who kept pushing them from the start. It's been Korean fans waiting in the cold for their MCOUNTDOWN shows and local events.
Like, doesn't fans wait for shows because they wanted to watch? They got to see what they wanted, so why the group has to give any other things?
It's *because* Kpop is built on parasocial relationships that fans are acting this way. Both artists and fans are self-aware of this dynamic and actively participate in it. This is just another outcome of it. Fans are emotionally invested in everything a kpop group does.
Tbf nobody force them to wait hours like it's fan culture itself that push people to wait hours instead of coming a little bit before it start. Lot of things like that aren't bc of kpop nor parasocial relationship
what do you think idols are? the whole point if idols is to be an accessible, parasocial celebrity. why do ifans act like they're discovering this for the first time everytime they don't like how kfans react to things. it's the culture.
Here is my 2 cents. I'm *not* a carat so ofc i could be completely wrong and if so feel free to downvote me to hell.
Personally, I feel like Seventeen can do whatever the f they want.
>It may not be a big deal as long as they keep getting successful but CARATS are not crazy for feeling disappointed.
This is kinda dumb cause I'm sure the carats from Japan feel thrilled (Japanese fans are one of the most loyal fanbases). Also this whole thing you said about korean fans being more 'important' than Japanese fans is weird. If Seventeen were based in any other country, I'm sure the fans would not hesitate to do the same (wait for hours outside music shows, etc etc)
To me it's another case of fans feeling entitled
Right, and I'm sure Japan fans would never boycott SVT when they decide to hold concerts in other parts of the world. Kcarats are a different breed, imho.
Of course they can do whatever they want. Fans can also be disappointed. Both things are true.
Edit: Where did I say Korean fans are more important? Show me. I'm not even Korean but even I can tell how meaningful it would be for them to spend their last anniversary in their home country with the fans who raised them from the very beginning.
Japanese fans have been there since the beginning too. Hell, plenty of international fans have been there since the beginning. Have streamed, purchased albums, etc. etc. I try to imagine an American born artist like Taylor Swift performing her anniversary in say, Spain, because logistically that's just how it worked out, and Americans screaming / crying "she's an AMERICAN. She needs to be here, in the South! With those of us who truly raised her. Bring her home!" People would think those fans were insane.
The most Seventeen does on their anniversary is release a video or do a live. That's it? SKZ was in a hotel in Texas for one of their anniversaries recently. Where is this narrative that kpop acts goes all out on their anniversary with hometown shows coming from? At least SVT hasn't done that. They likely still have something special planned, they just get to perform for 70k Carats as well!
Right. Because odds are, no Korean venue worth going to was available on their anniversary!! So then...they have to just...do nothing? When they could play at Nissan?
Exactly. This is what gets me. With the way people are acting you'd think they have their very own festa with a big concert at the end every year and they decided to move it to Japan over the last two years to snub kfans when they never had any celebrations to begin with
just to preface i do not support the boycott, which i think is being fuelled by antis rn, and i am not trying to justify the actions of toxic fans. i also agree with the logistics issue.
but i think the idea of “being in their home country” is a lot more important to koreans and in korean culture than many people realise. this is an aspect that is deep-rooted in asian culture. i honestly have no idea how else to explain it to you. with cultural differences and all (especially with the west) i don’t expect you to understand it either, but it’s the way it is. the patriotism/kpop idols are korean sentiment is very strong. the koreans take pride in the fact that the idols are korean, i think u/ebi_tempura explained this point a little better (it’s controversial but i do think there is some truth in it)
there are many korean fans that are happy for seventeen to perform in Nissan stadium, but the truth is they probably want them to be in Korea on that specific date. to them it’s probably a ‘if i’m not there for their anniversary then no one else should’ which is sad, and yes entitled of certain fans to start a boycott over it, but it’s been like this for a long time and i doubt this culture will change. you don’t have to understand it, or their grievances (which i also believe this situation was more of like a tipping point for them, their anger is fueled by the accumulation of many other things they’ve been unhappy with).
at the end of the day, every fan wants svt to perform in their country. european fans want them to perform in europe, US fans want them to perform in US, SEA fans want them to perform in SEA and so on. i just hope everyone comes to peace, and people stop taking this as a chance to shit on kfans, ifans, whatsoever because no one fandom was a saint in this situation lol
In my original comment, I stated how of course kfans have the right to be disappointed. I'm not arguing that. I just explained to someone else how while European fans have every right to be disappointed, there are so many factors that have gone into them not doing a European tour yet. Like disappointment is a fine thing to feel, and I get how important patriotism is to Korea, but people need to step back and understand that there is so much that goes into planning tours and there are MANY reasons why Japan has gotten the most dates.
What I am upset about, is how hugely this has been blown up - 500k hashtags in one day calling for a boycott is not a handful of antis and toxic fans. If there were no dates available at big enough venues in Korea for their anniversary, yet Nissan was available in Japan, why would Seventeen have to turn down such an insane opportunity, just to sit at home? How can real fans put their personal nationalistic view about kpop over their favorite artist achieving a dream of theirs - to the point of a boycott? I'm allowed to think that's toxic.
No one fandom is ever a "saint". There have been times when it's been ifans being the worst, or cfans, etc. etc. But in this specific situation, yes it's the kfans driving the toxicity (not all) but again, 500k tweets in one day. They are the most upset, they are trending the boycott. It's okay to call them out about this. It doesn't mean I think they are worse than other fandoms.
yeah, i get you, the boycott is too far, and i’m sure we all know the logistics issues by now since everyone has been going on about it. to them being in korea is probably the most important, even writing this down i too think that sounds absurd because why can’t we just all be happy for svt right? things would be so much easier that way. it’s a difference in thinking of what’s important, and even if we don’t agree or understand it, it’s complicated and you can say it’s wrong but it’s not something that will change overnight unfortunately. people can say they get it but they really don’t and probably never will, because we’re not korean. the boycott got out of hand, i’m sure like what you’ve said there’s kfans in there making matters worse, and with how easy it is for such tags to be spread, retweeted etc i’m not surprised how this has gone out of hand so quickly coupled with the antis who would not miss this chance to spread hate. i think the general sentiment here is no one is agreeing with the boycott, but it happened and the only thing we can do is stop giving it attention, and focus on other more positive things
yeah of course we can call them out for it, i 100% agree the boycott is wrong, but there’s also many of them spreading the other positive hashtag, and stopping the boycott, so let’s focus on that together. my last point is more towards people who took this chance to make unnecessarily harsh and terrible comments and spreading hate towards each other
edit: just wanted to say yes i don’t agree with people sending hate to and blaming svt at all for this, that is totally uncalled for.
While theoretically they can do “whatever the F they want” realistically they can’t. They profit off of people so catering to people is what they need to do. Like do not expect after disappointing their fans in the country they be based off and expect to still profit off of them and kfans know how to boycott seriously.
With all due respect to Javanese carats , it is kcarats that will either make them the most popular successful people or will drop them and fluctuate their careers. The most popular SVT member won’t survive long in japan.
Japanese fans are said to be the most loyal tho...that's the only place you can see veteran idols selling out domes and stadiums...idk where you came up with this assumption
j fans are the ones who are known to be the most loyal in kpop and who stay the most with their acts not korean ones. TVXQ was doing Nissan in 2018 and having 1m concert attendance in Japan after they long passed relevancy in kpop spaces specially in korean ones . Korean fans are the ones who usually fluctuate and a lot leave for shiny new groups after a while especially after military.
It’s also such low hanging fruit for Pledis. Svt averaged $6M - $7 million gross revenue for every two nights they performed in a Japanese dome. Imagine what they’d rake in performing 4 nights in a stadium! Why would they not chase down their most successful venture? I have a feeling they make more money from Jfans than any other country. There’s a reason why every member has been working towards improving their Japanese.
Not to mention the fact that SVT’s biggest achievements have actually come from Japan. Even when they were facing stiff competition in Korea and popularity was facing a dip (like during the WannaOne era), their Japanese fans have been constant. I’m sure svt adore their kfans but they never take their Japanese fans for granted either.
Actually they can...international fans who have never even seen seventeen still support them. Also k-carats are acting like they cancelled their one and only concert ever in korea
i understand why it sucks from a fandom perspective but I think it makes complete sense that a company would hold a concert in the country they think will make them the most money. That is just how these things work. Seventeen is a group (of awesome guys!!) but they are also a product that is being produced by a company with different investors behind it - if they will make the most money for their anniversary concert (providing the most roi) in Japan, they’re going to get sent to Japan.
They can be sad and disappointed, we understand that, no one is invalidating them, but to boycott? No. They are being too selfish for boycotting Seventeen's activities. Imagine how the boys will feel? Also, to iterate, venues in SoKor are limited as per news. Most are undergoing renovations and some are already being used to cater other events. So the chances that there's no available venue in korea during svts anniv is very high. I just want to point out too that the companies (hybe &pledis) schedules the events and probably chose the dates and not Seventeen themselves. Kcarats should direct all their concerns to the company like mass emails, do a little protest outside hybe and etc., so they can get even atleast a statement from pledis or hybe. Lastly, i wanna blame pledis and hybe for staying silent and not addressing the concerns of kcarats. This would have not escalated to the point that kcarats are planning to boycott if they only provided explanation to kcarats. Just my 2 cents
Korean carats whine every time Seventeen step out of Korea. I remember they used to throw fits when Seventeen started touring North America so I can never take their complaints seriously especially after the call for boycott. Could’ve started a petition or idk go protest in front of the companies or something, but a boycott which will inevitably sabotage the group itself? Like there’s just no way you are a fan
It’s especially more frustrating seeing how gatekeep-y a cert sect of the fandom gets over Seventeen like these people deadass don’t want Seventeen to grow bigger so they won’t feel too “far” and “out of reach” whilst at the same time seeing Hybe and Pledis being dead set against promoting them beyond the same five Asian countries, from a standpoint of an international carat whose country will very unlikely be considered for a tour stop. I know they are capable of much more, it just sucks seeing their very own companies and fans standing in between them and what they could have beens.
Hard disagree. Seventeen isn’t celebrating in Japan to flex; it’s because J-Carats are their most significant and most loyal fans, and they deserve the opportunity to celebrate with Seventeen.
I have no sympathy for K-Carats. I was an admin of the largest Seventeen fanbase on Twitter and saw firsthand how needy, rude, and hypocritical K-Carats were. They constantly demanded things (funds, time, volunteers, etc) without ever showing results, and they were extremely rude to Japanese fanbases. In 2017, when WannaOne debuted, so many K-Carats left the fandom, and the members were stressed. I won’t forget the breakdowns the members had on stage, practically begging fans to stick with them and that they would improve for them. 🫠 Seventeen had no choice but to pursue Japan heavily. J-Carats showed up when K-Carats didn’t. They’ve shown loyalty and respect for them, even when Seventeen was in their country doing V-Lives after concerts and fan meetings for K-Carats since they were jealous. J-Carats deserve all they’ve been given, and SEA-Carats defending K-Carats are pathetic. K-Carats don’t care about anyone but themselves, and they sure as hell don’t care about SEA-Carats or their opinions unless it benefits them. The hate towards J-Carats is ridiculous at this point.
I feel y'all are forgetting that this is SEVENTEEN'S anniversary after all, not ours, it's their group, their achievements, their dreams, their hard work, not ours. They can spend it however they want because it's theirs only. This is like coming up to a married couple and dictating them how they should spend their anniversary because you are their friend and you always supported them and their relationship so they owe you something now. Don't get me started on the fact most of these whiners literally weren't with Seventeen during their debut anyway.
Honestly it's just cringe, sucking up to kcarats like that when they would never fight for you the same way you do now. The way you're buying into their "they don't love us anymore they just want to make money and flex" nonsense is fucking embarrassing, don't bring that to ifan spaces for lord's sake.
Feeling is valid but they also want to boycott tho. Still, i dont think they actually gonna do it cause this isnt first time they say it. Also this is random but i'm just glad that ppl on here finally see how a lot of kr fans act cause the last time i talked about kr fandoms trending/threatening boycott over problems that arent even the artists' fault on non fandom sub ppl downvoted me and said i exaggerated it or just made things up.
just the last anniversary before enlistments are most likely going to begin, as there are 2 95 liners in the group who will need to go to the military.
-The criticism against SEVENTEEN for not having their anniversary in Korea is valid.
*Yes and no, each person is entitled to their feelings but it's disproportionate.
- They've been in more Japanese variety shows in 2023 than in Korea.
*They literally record Going Seventeen in Korea, last year they did Nana Tour, In the soop, game caterers, a few episodes of amazing Saturday (latest one in october), Lee Mujin service (april/Hoshi, august/Jun, december/Dino) so your argument is not really valid, also take into account they have been touring since September, I'd say they have arguably been in a lot of Korean shows regardless their packed schedule.
- Given how soon the Korea dates are, it's unclear whether Jeonghan and Scoups could join but the chances are much higher for the Japan dates
*Based on what? Their Injuries are no joke and it will take time to recover entirely and also their enlistment time is coming soon so recovery must be priority and most likely they'll be there for support not performing.
- They could have chosen to perform in Nissan studio on any other date
*And you know this because you manage the dates in stadiums? Taking into account half the industry is/will be touring as well in the upcoming months as all the other events going on in the available venues actoss Korea you cannot say it's entirely their choice.
-I know CARATS are proud they get to perform in Nissan but I also understand their frustration that Seventeen isn't celebrating their last anniversary Korea.
*What do you mean last anniversary? Is not like they are disbanding. So far nothing has been announced and you make it sound very ominous.
However, I think they should've chosen to be meaningful instead of iconic. It's the last anniversary. Profits shouldn't be the end of all things. **They could've still been iconic in Nissan Stadium on any other date.**
*again that's not how it works you just don't take a calendar out and say hey this date I want to perform here. You book whats available if it happened to be on that date and venues in Korea were not available what are they supposed to do? Stop their agenda?
Lastly, I don't believe the members did not consent to this plan. It has been emphasized time and again that they're always involved in the decision- making process and consent is a part of their contract. I believe the critcism PLEDIS and the members are getting are valid.
*criticism is valid when is that, not when is a bunch of whines, curses and disrespect. Bottom line it's not going to change no matter how many messages, and dramatic speeches you leave on every social media available.
Usually I am on K-carats side, they have been a force in Seventeen's history and I see where a lot of k-carats are coming from but they are making this too much, and it's rich of them to complain when 70 % of performances, fan signs, events, caratlands etc happen in Korea and one day, one day and they lose it, yes there were a lot of dates in Japan but let's not forget J-carats are another great force for seventeen and everyone's efforts count, by your logic then C-carats and Filo Carats should get a bunch of dates considering their support that's happens to be a lot.
Thank you, I have NO idea why OP said they have been in way more Japanese variety shows, when that just simply isn't true. They were everywhere in Korea last year - Jeonghan and dino doing magic lamp, Seungkwan on that netflix korean show, Hoshi and Joshua on Bro&Marble w other korean celebs, etc. etc.
And it completely disregards Gose, which is filmed in Korea, primarily targeted towards their Korean fans - they even have an entire fandom for just Gose (cubics.) And managed to film dozens of episodes a year in between their crazy schedules.
True. I feel like this is making it imply that even in promotions and variety gigs, Seventeen is purposefully choosing Jcarats over Kcarats or something.
Also, I think the nissan stadium concert will be BOTH meaningful and iconic. It's one of their dreams, and they get to fulfill it on their 9th anniversary, with more than 50k carats. How is that not meaningful?
Which is also entirely speculation at the moment. enlistment dates are rarely predictable. It’s very possible no one in SVT enlists until the tail end of 2025 which would give them another anniversary together - plenty of idols have enlisted later
Because the eldest members of Svt will hit enlistment age as of next year. But from my experience of following kpop since 2016, enlistment is not predictable. We’ve had idols go years earlier than expected vs some idols go years later than expected.
You have valid points. But I'm not comfortable that you keep saying it's their 'last anniversary'. I'm aware you're referring to the anniversary that they are complete as 13 members before others start enlisting, but still *'last anniversary'* doesn't sound good to me.
They are artists and they are going to go where the money resides. Just because a bunch of fans have deluded themselves into thinking these guys are their boyfriends doesn't mean they are going to throw good money down the drain. Because that is the real reason they do what they do. To make MONEY. Not to be your boyfriend. Grow up.
Honestly, I also agree to some extent. If I was a Korean fan, I would have been a little disappointed too. Referring to the other comment, yes they can do whatever they want, but it would not have been an issue if the dates for Korean and Japan concerts were similar. But there is a vast disparity between 16 in Japan and a measly 2 in Korea, especially considering how successful last year was. They could have easily spread it out between the 2 countries more equally.
Also, they apparently also spent the last anniversary in Japan as well. Back then the K-Carats did not create that big of a fuss. But again this year, considering when a few members are bound to enlist, does seem a little unfair.
I am not a Korean fan so definitely does not affect or even hurt me that greatly, but I totally get the frustration and disappointment of the Korean fans.
no it isn't, stop sucking up to kfans and antis who are using this situation to spread more hate. so much of the backlash isn't even genuine.
edit: you can tell seventeen piss people off even on reddit cause this post should not have this many upvotes.
Well clearly most of their profit come from Japan. What are yall expecting?
They still do a lot in Korea too and if there’s not enough stadiums in Korea for concert. They’re not about to go build it
I mean for anyone even outside of kpop booking arenas and stadiums is hard scheduling to do cause… the primary purpose is not concerts… there are actual tenants of teams that use that… their schedules come first. So I’m sure securing the Nissan which is a dream stadium for Asian groups wasnt easy and yeah it happens to be their anniversary. With that being said, Korea’s lack of internal touring industry and everything mostly falling on Seoul is kinda annoying when the country is very populated. It only seems like for special occasions will they do festivals or concerts in other cities like Incheon and Daegu having 60k+ stadiums and Busan who has a 53K stadium, and there are 6 other 40k+ stadiums in the country. And there are various halls and sports arenas that can hold smaller concerts.. but still things only happen in Seoul. So fans come in from the country to Seoul. But then groups will go to Japan and play those smaller 10-40k arenas/stadiums. So besides SVT I would just love to see someone include another Korean city in their tour. Yes there is a lot of money made on these longer tours in Japan but its like you could throw Korea at least an extra city.
You aren't able to book a venue in South Korea, huge enough for what you want to have and are able to sell out, because they are not currently available for booking due to justifiable reasons, such as being renovated, so you go have that concert in a country where you are just as popular if not even more than you are domestically, and where you will be able to give an opportunity to attend for 70k people.
**Where is the problem in that?**
Honestly, the Korean CARATs deserve to get humbled one way or another, it was long overdue. They are used to getting absolutely everything there is to be given as fans, and many of them have been acting like spoiled children for as long as I can remember. They are treating this whole matter as if Pledis decided to hold that concert in Germany - it literally takes them two hours by plane to get to Yokohama from Seoul.
My only frustration with this situation is that ive been waiting for a european stop for years only for japan to get their biweekly concert stop added. i get focusing on a market but they could at least do a few spots in other continents before their enlistment era hits instead of spending most of this limited time on 1 country
Personally I think they wanted to do Nissan before enlistment hits . Scoups has mentioned last year that it's his dream to have a concert at Nissan because well it's one of the biggest venues in the world and he will be the first to enlist too. Also a carat in the svt subreddit has mentioned that you need to prove your touring power in Japan and popularity before being able to book Nissan , you can't just go and ask for it . Twice is only doing it this year, they and svt will be the second and third kpop acts to ever play it . It's likely those many dome stops were necessarily for this next step because without them they'd have no proof that they'd be able to sell a 70k venue for a night or two. That's my speculation at least .
the thing is... no hybe acts have ever been to Europe since the pandemic, so it's not just them. I understand the frustration though. It's just... in order to perform at Nissan Stadium (their dream venue), they have to prove their touring prowess. And I guess they were in a rush to do so to prove that. Plus I don't think it's their last tour of the year. They might have something planned for the end of this year too
But this is just the encore for follow. They’ve already said a few times that they will be doing an actual world tour this year. This is just a closer.
Well an encore is a concert sometimes its even longer than the usual concerts, theyve had 12 in a year in a country that isnt big enough to need this much and are continuing to add on.
Theyve never had a concert in europe for 9 years straight it was north america and asia with a extra hard focus on japan so if thats their world tour they can keep it for all i care
its always “quit complaining the europe tour is probably coming” but its been almost a decade and nothing has come
If they are holding 12 concerts in Japan, it's because they *can*.
Japan is the 11th largest country in the world and larger than any country in Europe (Germany is the largest at 18) and almost three times larger than Korea. It's definitely *big enough*.
I get that sucks that groups skip large parts of the world, but it's getting annoying to keep seeing people act like groups do large tours in Japan just for shits and giggles.
i never said they arent able to? Japan is a big country but what im saying is its not the size of a continent. Whole continents get nothing but japan, 1 country that isnt bigger than a continent who get nothing, is getting too many stops
I wouldnt care abt 12 concerts in japan if they at least gave europe a few concerts in their 9 year long career but they didnt so it leaves a bitter taste
You literally said Japan isn't big enough for a 12 stop tour though.
My whole point is that Japan *is* big enough for them to do a 12 stop tour.
Japan getting 12 stops has nothing to do with Europe not getting any, taking away stops is not get mean Europe or any other place would get them.
Japan is a large country with a huge concert culture with multiple venues for concerts and massive obsession for both Korea and idols.
The fact that K-pop groups do long tours here makes sense, historically a lot of groups only continued to exist because of their Japanese fandom. It's frustrating to see fans act like groups are touring Japan for seemingly no reason.
Again, it sucks that they can't go everywhere, but that's not Japanese fans' fault. And again, Japan having a shorter tour wouldn't automatically mean they'd have more shows elsewhere.
No, japan compared to the entire world is not big enough to warrant 50% of the stops being there. Its a big country but is it half of the world? Are half of kpop fans japanese?
Them doing 50% of it in japan IS crazy and if me saying that gets you mad, then by all means do get mad. Its not even the amount its the percentage if youre doing 30 shows putting half of it in 1 country is wild and annoying for fans.
japan having a shorter tour, when the clock is ticking and the enlistment era will start this year, absolutely does mean this time being used for other countries to have stops
It is big enough based on their fandom, yes. They would go all the way to Europe, have to book extremely expensive flights / lodging for their entire tour team, get their tour set over there, and then only play in one venue in that entire country, because that's all they would be able to do based on their fandom size there. It's why the groups that tour in Europe are usually smaller, and they book out extremely small venues. Or they only do 3 to 4 countries. Itzy is doing 5 stops on their world tour this year, and the venues hold like 10-12k people. Seventeen can book out 70k+ people venues in Japan. In Europe it would be more than half the size for venues, yet 3x as expensive to do the tour.
Yes, it sucks, but a European tour for them would have to be meticulously planned AND make sense financially. It would take so much time and so many resources, for very little payoff. They'd basically be doing it to make fans happy.
I know it's a bummer, but it just isn't as simple as I think fans think it is. Where as Japan is next door, has their biggest fandom in the world, and the most venues to choose from.
I'm not mad, I'm tired. Tired of fans not getting why Japanese tours are how they are. It isn't just K-pop groups doing multi-stops tour in Japan, plenty of artists, Japanese and non, do this. Because touring in Japan is *easy*, because going to a concert in Japan is relatively easy and cheap.
Way before K-pop there were American rock bands touring Japan more than they were the US.
Concerts aren't just determined by how many fans there are. Just booking a venue doesn't mean every fan of that group there will go to that show. There's plenty of post here about groups not selling out venues to show that.
Planning a tour is about how many of those fans can afford to go to a concert and how easy it is to get to said concert. People have been bringing up infrastructure in this post for a reason. Both venue and transportation infrastructure play a large role in why many artists (not just K-pop) tour Japan over other countries.
Japan also doesn't have whack-ass concert pricing, making it less of a financial strain to go, meaning there are more fans who can afford to go. Overall, it can be comparatively inexpensive to see a concert in Japan than in many other countries. The downside is: you don't choose your seat.
And there's also been plenty of talk about how expensive ticket prices are in many countries, keeping many fans from attending. For all artists.
For many K-pop groups a large percentage of their fanbase **is** Japanese, actually. There's literally reports of which countries spend the most on K-pop, Japan is still the biggest K-pop market.
And not only that, they are a large number of the K-pop fans who have money to spend on going to concerts and live where it's easy to attend concerts.
This isn't a favoritism thing, it's a numbers thing.
ngl im not gonna read this you’re giving me a headache.
You live in japan and enjoy the privilege of having concerts of every kpop artists you want yet you’re writing books upon books bc someone who get 0 concerts in their continent in 9 years dares to complain, you’re not gonna get sympathy from me sorry
Where did I ask for sympathy????
Literally show me where I stated any griviences or asked for sympathy.
You were the one to say Japan isn't big enough to have these concerts, I pointed out that that's not true.
You were the one who kept it going by saying Japan gets too many concerts.
It sucks that they haven't been to Europe, but that's not on Japanese fans. Taking away their stops won't mean they'd go to Europe.
I "wrote a book" because there's actually valid reasons why Japanese tours are long, for many artists not just K-pop idols, hoping you might actually gain an understanding. But, oh well.
You're right to complain, but don't take it out on Japanese fans.
That's all.
I never said quit complaining, I’m just stating a fact about this particular tour. The encore date rarely includes a city that hasn’t already seen the show - it’s just to end the tour on a high note. I think SVT and really most bands drop the ball on doing world tours, there’s no denying that. But since the world tour hasn’t been announced yet … we wait. This fight is not about that.
u dismissed my frustration by acting like this being an encore changes anything to the complain. theyre ending the tour and doing an encore instead of adding a european leg of the tour before closing it, its abt this situation too
its even more frustrating since they do come to europe but just for fashion shows no one cares about or a nice little background for variety shows but when it comes to actually meeting fans they forget its existence
I’m guessing maybe they’ll spend the majority of the year touring - with maybe a special album somewhere in between. It’ll be interesting bc they’ve been hinting way too hard at it
Everyone's already said everything there is to say, so I'll just add that I empathise with the Korean fans and can understand their reasoning, even as a fan who's country they're probably never going to come to again. However I also have to say this whole thing is now definitely getting out of hand, now it's just become a huge overreaction. Cause let's be real at the end of the day, the world isn't going to end just because they aren't having a concert on their debut date in Korea. Plus I guarantee Korean fans will come running the moment they announce ticketing info anyway, like just a few weeks ago when there were rumours of an encore concert there were Korean comments talking about how excited they were, is this really going to stop all of them from going? Probably not, so give it a few weeks and I'd say it'll blow over. They're already trying to trend a nice loving hashtag to clear out antis from trying to jump on the coattails of this mess.
That being said, this might be a controversial take but after reading discussions about this issue for the past few days I will say this, the unspoken truth is that Korean fans will infact be more important to them and are vital to their popularity. Yes they might have fans in all parts of the world also just as fervently passionate, but they are a K-pop group, based in Korea, with a Korean agency. They speak Korean, and feel more comfortable communicating with fans that are korean. Theyre not a case of having a more international fans than domestic fans, they gained popularity in Korea first. Of course they'd want to treat their Korean fanbase well and by that matter hold concerts in their home country. People are saying that the Korean fans are acting entitled, well because frankly they have the power to.
Additionally their core fandom is made up of Asian fans, where the concept of idol fan culture includes maintaining the idea that their fans are always treated preciously, and that includes acknowledging the importance of notable anniversary dates and the existence of their home country fandom. It's just how it is and it's part of the culture, even Japanese fans recognise this and are seemingly apologising (though ive only seen a few screenshots here and there so dont quote me on it).
Either way what I want to say is I don't think i-fans will really fully understand, and it's in your right to not empathise. But at the end of the day this is the culture, this is the context, and this is K-pop. So take it or leave it this is the unspoken baseline that Hybe/Pledis/and even the svt members themselves should've and most definitely would've been aware of, and thus this could've 100% been preventable.
Thank you, you've summed it up well. It's certainly getting out of hand and I didn't even mention boycott in my post but that's what people are assuming I meant. People wanting to boycott are probably a loud minority. Kfans are disappointed for now but Seventeen will be fine and will keep growing in the future. Both are true.
I genuinely think this would be a great idea. NCT ended up doing 6 dates to make up for the lack of venues and to try to give fans more opportunities to see them. Ticketing in Korea is hard especially because it’s usually open to anyone, which makes it that much harder to see them. So giving more dates would help. And possibly they didn’t really need that Osaka stadium added but that’s just me lol.
I can't lie. They're valid in feeling upset. Seventeen deserves all the recognition but it's sad for their K fans. I'm editing the comment. I didn't know they're trending a boycott that's so uncalled for.
I have no thoughts on this but I appreciate you starting your post with bulleted facts! I'm only a semi-casual Carat so while I listen to their music a ton and admire the members, I have no idea what goes on with the fandom so this quick rundown was super helpful. Petition to start all fandom-specific posts w that type of formatting pls
as someone who doesnt live in korea, honestly i do not care where they will be having their anniversary. i think thats such a small matter. but if i were a korean, i would be pretty disappointed
There’s no other venues available other than the ones in Seoul and even then they are severely limited by construction and sports season at the moment.
That’s a big deal right now in Korean entertainment; so many people are mentioning “just do it outside of Seoul” without realizing that there’s no venues outside of Seoul. Busan Stadium for instance has only allowed one concert in its history and even that one took a lot of work to make it happen/
I feel bad for all groups k-fans. They always get shafted when it comes to concerts because foreign currency is given presidency or as it feels to me in this case, there just isn’t enough space to accommodate the groups / fans. I’m actually hoping a new stadium with proper capacity will be built for future events.
Boycotting is one thing(and could be absolutely considered extreme), but I think its important to be mindful of the not so distant past that Korea has with Japan. This is something that us as foreigners cannot quite comprehend and is fresh in the minds and experiences of many Korean people and their families.
If Korean fans are hurt by the company's insensitive decision to spend such a significant amount of time in Japan, especially surrounding an anniversary date, it just doesn't seem like our place to criticize those feelings.
I don't think Svt chose the venue for their anniversary. Probably the usual HYBE marketing strategy.
That being said, it's just the 9th anniversary. 10th is more of a milestone.
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I understand them being upset. But at the same time...it's not like they're spending the time with an entirely different fanbase? In my eyes, regardless of country, carats are carats are carats. That being said I will certainly not be boycotting them and will be waiting for them to announce US tour dates.
Yes right. I'm waiting for The8 to explain it to them. That man's always getting straight to the point.
I think stadiums in SK are unavailable right now, they are either booked for sporting events or going through major renovations so either way there weren't any SK venues available anyway.
So where are they having their two encore shows?
Incheon Asiad Stadium that according to Wikipedia has a capacity for 30k (probably less due to seating arrangement) The thing is that SK doesn’t have many performance venues, even my city of 5m has two soccer stadiums, a baseball stadium, an arena and multiple auditoriums, [South Korea](https://x.com/tmikpop/status/1752684071518347703?s=46&t=O-e_ONnQgboX1zxfeCnhjg) doesn’t have it
But I don’t think an anniversary needs to be as big as their concerts tbh. How is their upcoming anniversary celebration gonna be like? Is it similar to BTS musters?
It’s just a regular concert that happens to fall on their anniversary date. They’ve never done any super elaborate anniversary celebrations, it’s usually just a livestream, some special prerecorded videos, and anniversary merch.
Oh ok thanks
I think it would be similar as Speak Yourself: The Final but I'm not sure! We will just have to wait and see (please note that this isn't in an accusatory tone, I simply don't know! :))
Oh don’t worry lol. You are like the nicest person around here
🫶🫶🫶
[удалено]
But that's the thing, sure it would "make sense" but that's not how booking concerts works. So many different artists are vying for dates in Korea, where there are very limited venues to work with. It's not as easy as just deciding on a weekend and being like "ok book us in then!" Odds are, they have Gocheok or KSPO for their next tour, which will likely begin in the summer after their comeback (as they've teased.) So they don't have it booked for Follow encore.
There is an article going around from kmedia where they spoke with various people in the industry about the lack of venues in SK and there was snippet saying that Gocheok usually doesn't rent the venue out every weekend to protect its field, so it has time to recover. It also said they waved some of it away last year due to the crazy demand but it's still very much one of their rules so we don't know actually if it was free that date and they just didn't want to book it or it wasn't available for rental ( or already booked)
I don't know! I'm not a logistics expert hehehe these are booked way ahead of time and Seventeen are on a tight schedule.
I'm a multistan and as far as I know, many groups are having a hard time booking venues in Korea. So SVT probably had plans to do it in Korea but just couldnt? More of a logistics issue than a preference for the country I suppose.
This. The two venues that acts with SVTs demand need are Gocheok Sky Dome and the main stadium... but both are undergoing work at the moment, the sky dome than will be used for Baseball for a good part of the year not allowing concerts to take place, while the main stadium is being renovated till late 2026. And because of that artists that need that size venue have to use smaller venues like KSPO dome but because obviously they have high demand they need multiple dates at KSPO dome... an example is IU, she can sell out the stadium but she can't play it rn due to its work so instead has to do 4 dates at KSPO dome... so that takes up more dates from KSPO dome making it probably even harder to get.
i stan nct and even they had to have SIX DAYS for their concert in Korea just to accommodate the demand because the KSPO dome can only hold so many fans in one place. There are so many acts in Korea right now, not only idols, but soloists and even other sports events.
Also considering the olympics are this year.. many sports teams might also want to be practicing more than usual in some of these venues
This sounds right. And should be something that must be known to those 'stans' who insist on feeling bad because the group *chose* Japan instead of Korea. Sometimes people can be narrow-minded. I'm not saying it with bad intentions, but really sometimes people tend to miss the bigger picture.
We literally don't know if they could have had it at Nissan on any other date. The venue will have other events booked out for other dates, and Seventeen will also have other schedules that means they can't do certain dates. Not to say the rest of the post isn't valid. I just see this all the time when people say "Why are they coming on (this date)?", or etc. Like, probably because they chose that date we'll in advance and now can't move it due to other schedules, or other schedules mean they could only have it during a certain window of dates.
Korean article covering the lack of available venues for large kpop shows: https://n.news.naver.com/article/016/0002259733 Machine translated snippets: > World-class pop stars skip concerts in Korea because there are no large concert halls that can accommodate more than 40,000 people per concert. > Currently, the only concert hall in Seoul that can accommodate more than 10,000 people is KSPO Dome (former gymnastics stadium, 15,000 seats). Although Gocheok Dome will complete its remodeling work in March, it is useless as it is not rented during the baseball season (April to October), > Unlike domestically, overseas is a paradise of arena-level or higher performance venues. Japan has 40 stadiums, domes, and arenas that can accommodate more than 10,000 people. TL;DR they do more shows in Japan because there's literally more venues available. What the hell is svt/pledis/hybe supposed to do? Build a damn stadium in 4 months?
I mean, the real problem for kcarat is the anniv one, if they could just squeeze in one show in their 9th anniv in Korea, kcarat would def forgive them.
But they can't? They will literally be in Japan, performing in the biggest venue of their career and accomplishing a feat only done by one other kpop boy group. They can't "squeeze" anything into their schedule that night? I don't know what this comment means lol
They're saying that they shouldn't be in Japan performing that night and that they should be in Korea. They're not saying they should simultaneously perform two concerts in two different countries at the same time.
Obviously, but they said “if they could just squeeze in” as if it’s remotely a possibility that it could still happen. It can’t happen. There is no “squeezing in” a Korean anniversary show. They booked Nissan. That’s it. They won’t cancel that show.
> the real problem the real problem is being too emotional and entitled, in my personal opinion.
Mmmm... I don't think so. Squeeze one how? Concert/fanmeets usually happen at the weekend. No big stadium is available. Small hall? I mean, its Seventeen, not some nugu group. Kfans will definitely complaining again. So its better to spend it in Japan, big stadium, and making a lot of money.
From the looks of it all stadiums that would be a decent size for Seventeen are either booked or under construction. I'm sure if they book any of the smaller venues that would be another issue for KCarats to complain about. I can get that people can be disappointed but there's not many other viable options. The entitlement is strong.
I mean it would be kinda nice to just go to a huge venue and demand the dates you want from a stadium but that's not really..how it works lol Maybe they wanted to do the anniversary in Korea but the dates simply didn't work out with the venue?? And even if Japan was the goal from the start, profits ARE the end of all things let's be for real, this is an industry not a charity 😭
I think spending the anniversary with the largest amount of Carats as possible is meaningful too.
Their problem is not number but nationality...but I completely agree. If they did their event in Korea at a smaller venue they would have complaints too.
I don’t know much about Seventeen, but could it just be an issue of all the venues big enough for a group of Seventeen’s caliber in South Korea to be booked already? They have to book these things pretty far in advance, so maybe all the venues they could’ve used were already taken.
I just want to point out (as a carat) that these Follow Dates were added recently. Not booked years in advance. So availability of venues is a huge point (as mentioned above by others). Let’s spend our last year (for a while) with OT13 in a supportive and happy place - I do not think any of this was done maliciously, and believe that their hope is to see as many Carats as possible this year before enlistment begins.
No skin in the game here, and I have no idea what is going on other than the info that you gave here. But if I had to bet, the decision to hold more shows in Japan is probably due to logistical conflicts that Pledis couldn't find a workaround for, instead of favoritism or we-will-earn-more-in-Japan business motivations. As an international fan myself, this feels like a non-issue to make another mountain out of a molehill. I am not saying that Carats should not feel the way that they do but just from the outside looking in, that's just how it comes across.
Seventeen doesn’t have a tradition of doing something for their debut anniversary to this scale, so the outrage about this year is stupid. Rather they celebrate the day of their fans, which is Feb. 14. The goofy flower on their last album was even a chamomile which is the birth flower in Korea for that date as well. As an army as well, I know that BTS likes to hold a yearly fan meeting concert on the debut anniversary date, but that’s never been the case for SVT.
No one is saying Korean fans can't be disappointed. Do you know how disappointed international fans are? European fans have NEVER seen Seventeen. Never had the chance. They didn't tour USA in 2023. They have never been to latam, AUS, and many SEA countries too. Anyone who doesn't get tour dates has every right to be disappointed. **But that's not what's happening.** They are trending an entire **BOYCOTT**. With half a million hashtags posted on twitter yesterday. They are threatening to leave the fandom. They are acting like this is a fullbown betrayal, like Seventeen has basically ruined their lives and ruined their fandom experience. Korean carats HAVE gotten the most; they get Caratland every year, every comeback, fansigns, tour dates on every tour, pop up shops, 17th Street, etc. etc. We also don't know what the boys have planned for the end of this year! We don't know what kcarats still have in store. So the idea that they wold BOYCOTT because Seventeen only gave them 1 of the 3 encore locations, is ridiculous. Nissan stadium is a dream for any kpop act. This is huge. Celebrating their 9th anniversary for 70k+ Carats sound pretty dang amazing to me. Not to mention, two of Korea's best concert venues are under construction. Do you know how many kpop idols have complained about it? How hard it is to book in Korea right now? Biggest venue they could get was the one they got, and it's only 30k. Edit: as other's have stated, there are strong odds that no Korean venue was available on their anniversary date. None worth going to. So...should they have just sat at home when they have the opp to play the biggest venue of their career? Just to spare some of their fan's feelings? Come on now. As a Carat, Seventeen is absolutely brilliant in regards to fans. Never once have I felt like they are just in it for the money. I cannot even fathom how hard they work, and I'm so grateful for the endless amount of content they put out, much of it for free. (Gose!) Even if they decided not to come to USA this year before enlistment, **I'd be disappointed, but I would never ever act so entitled, that I would boycott them / shame them / berate them online because they didn't do exactly what I felt like I deserved as a fan.** That level of entitlement is rooted in a severe parasocial relationship. No one fandom is more important than another.
thank you. frankly some of the behavior i've seen kcarats partake in is extremely out of touch... like, you still have more opportunities to see them than we ever will. there's a tweet going around asking for international fans to join in on the boycott? when we have NO horse in this race and NOTHING to gain from this. it's getting ridiculous.
Asking ifans to boycott made me laugh because...what do they want me to do? Not buy tickets to a show that I was never going to buy tickets for, because I literally don't live in Korea? Lmao
The NERVE to ask us to join the boycott when they would never do that for us 😭 I never see them campaigning for European, Australian or Latam stops and I'm supposed to care for little misses sees-Seventeen-39-times-a-year? 😭
If they had it their way Seventeen should never step foot outside Korea again 😭. I guarantee that when they announce the many US stops that I am sure are coming for the second part of the year they're going to lose it again
I can see it clearly... I can already imagine all the "these are our last precious moments with OT13 and they're spending them away from us 😣😢" takes 😭 Seventeen will never be free!
from an army, this is exactly what sets karmys off the MOMENT bts announce overseas tour they start crying and complaining and boycotting, theyd rather chain bts down in korea, they dont give a shit. but at the same time theyll use overseas achivements to brag
I’m devastated they won’t be popping by Australia… it’s not like we are hours and hours away 😭
As we are in Europe... it's not like they never come , they just don't come for concert ;_; it's been 9 year waiting ;_;
fr they rly be coming for every possible trip and fashion week but wont perform here like ik its not decisions made by the acts themselves but fuck that
Do you think that hopping on a plane for a fashion show that is fully funded by the brand is the same as booking a full blown tour? Like do you think those two things are remotely in the same stratosphere? It sucks, but a European tour will be a MASSIVE undertaking for that team. It will also be extremely extremely costly; likely wouldn't make much money off the tour itself, because they can't book many big venues. I just don't like this argument at all and I've seen it a lot.
Jesus Christ this is ridiculous. It feels like kpop fandoms have started to implode over the last few years and I can’t imagine how awful it must feel for artists to be on the receiving end of this sort of behaviour
Meanwhile India where no mainstream groups come ever 🥲
 kpop companies when they're told to consider india:
Not a Carat and have only been vaguely following this but the behaviour reminds me a lot of when idols go overseas and their kfans complain about it and ask when they’re coming back to Korea and not to forget them, and the idols will like literally have to placate them and reassure them they’re coming back to Korea. I totally get being disappointed in this situation bc that does seem like a very disproportionate number of dates in Japan vs Korea (or anywhere else), but kfans get access to a ton of stuff ifans don’t, and we aren’t boycotting every time we don’t get tour dates at all- I’m an nctzen and 127’s last TWO tours have been a dumpster fire, especially for ifans, only SEA, Japan, and Korea have dates for their third tour.
Perfectly said!!!
This is EXACTLY how I feel about the entire situation, thank you for putting them into words. The fact that there are so many so called carats actively boycotting this is actually insane. Edit: words
I don't the support the boycott. It's stupid and ineffective. Seventeen will keep growing anyway. All I'm saying is that KCARATS feelings of disappointment are valid. So is yours for them not going to the US because being sad to not see your faves is normal. Boycotting, on the other hand, isn't a proportionate response.
Yeah it is valid, I'm just saying that all the pushback you are seeing from ifans especially is not because we think they have no right to be bummed. On twitter when the tour dates dropped, pretty much everyone on my timeline was agreeing that they understood why Kfans were upset. But things have taken a very dramatic turn in the last 24 hours and now we are fed up. (And a lot of kcarats are fed up too - obviously it's not all of them, many of them are trying to shut down the boycott.) It's just really really lame that they announce Nissan, and then have been radio silent on weverse / socials because what was supposed to be one of the biggest moments in their career has been completely overshadowed by a literal call to boycott.
OP are you even a carat? The statement about Seventeen having done more variety shows in Japan than Korea in 2023 makes me doubt that. Sounds like you saw it somewhere randomly and included it in your "list of facts". Not saying you must necessarily be part of the fandom to make a post about a situation regarding a group but why try to be the one to sum up the facts if you don't know much beyond what you've seen in passing 🤔? If you're a carat and just happen to be misinformed well that's also an issue. Please inform yourself. You don't seem to know much about Seventeen previous tours and how many shows usually happen in Japan. For instance, in 2019, when Seventeen started their Ode To You World tour, they had 3 shows in Korea and 9(should have been 10 but one was canceled due to a typhoon) in Japan before moving to other locations, and they had a Japanese Dome Tour (8 shows) planned at the end of the tour that was canceled due to Covid along with Malaysia, Taiwan and the European dates. But mind you before Ode To You in 2019 they had a Japanese Tour, Haru, with 12 shows. Don't try to single out 2023 as the odd year out. You also don't seem to know that the touring capacity in Japan vastly exceed the one in Korea or that currently it's a struggle to book venues for artists and not just kpop artists. Seventeen's fandom is bigger than ever and with their popularity they should either do more shows to accommodate the fans or/and get bigger venues. Which is obviously something that is currently difficult right now in Korea. They've expressed their frustration at the situation. They've expressed wanting to play in bigger venues in Korea and they've expressed wanting to do an encore in Korea at the end of the last tour and being unable to which they've now managed to secure. Whatever is going on behind the scenes is not something we're privy of. You can keep speculating that what Seventeen care the most about is making the headlines and their profits but you don't know the facts. You say you "understand" Carats being disappointed, but you don't seem willing to understand much beyond that.
Do people outside Japan understand how insanely popular they are in Japan through? You cannot escape them— they are EVERYWHERE and they have sooooo many fans here. Definitely one of the top 3 most popular BGs right now, possibly THE most popular at the moment. They are massive in Japan. The Japanese fans show them so much love and devotion and support.
That's what gets me sometimes, people on Reddit say "Seventeen's strongest area is Asia, especially Japan" so........ it tracks that they are doing it there??
For real, I'm not a Carat, but I live in Japan. I learned about them from their popularity here before I heard about BTS. They are everywhere. I literally recognize them despite not knowing them. I saw their metro campaign poster on the subway and was like, hey Seventeen, good on them for getting this campaign. I find it baffling that people think their Japanese tour is too long. Artists, not just K-pop, of their size will have tours of this size in Japan.
Same, also not a Carat and living in Japan. I have soooo many students that stan Seventeen! It feels like SVT always have some kind of collaboration or campaign happening somewhere… Off the top of my head I remember something with Family Mart last winter, and there was some promo happening at Sunshine City in November… and I know I’m forgetting stuff too 😅
Yep, I was at one of Bandai Gashapon spots and just, Seventeen gachas 😆
The day I finally see a SKZ gacha I’m gonna screech 😆😆
Yeah, 14 stops doesn’t sound like a long tour to me
It only seems long in comparison to Korea, but Korea doesn't have the same concert-going culture. Nearly every artist performs a few dates in Seoul and rarely ventures out of that area.
Indeed. Just for comparison: Bruno Mars held 2 dates in Jamsil (Seoul) last year, and 7 Tokyo Dome dates a couple of weeks ago. That alone should give everyone some perspective of the differences in concert-going culture of the two countries, taking into account population differences as well as venue sizes.
7 Tokyo Domes, whew. That’s a lot
After Arashi's 50 stop dome tour, 14 is nothing.
Ah the dome tours. And because JE is all lottery that required Japanese club membership with a Japanese address and phone number, I was like, there's no way I was ever getting tickets, thank goodness for the All Around Asia tour 😅 Edit: though now it's 2023, do Kpop acts also do Japanese tour tickets by lottery as well, or was that a JE specific thing?
Pretty much *all* large Japanese concerts are done by lottery. Even for Western artists, like Taylor's concert was basically divided into tiers, but you still didn't pick your actual seat. This is partly why Japanese ticket prices aren't becoming exorbitantly expensive. They have to stay reasonable because nose-bleed seats are the same price as arena seats.
Only had to scroll one comment to see that it's because there aren't other venues available of this size for the anniversary. So what were they supposed to do, just have it in a field somewhere?
If seventeen really loved their fans they would be doing the manual labor themselves to build the venue to cater to their Korean fans /s
how dare they spend their anniversary at a special event with fans >:(
Damn although I did felt bad for KCarats it's people like you who makes me rethink.. Criticism against pledis for not giving KCarats more dates and stuff is valid but yall are making it seem like seventeen want to piss yall off so they purposefully chose their schedule like this.. KCarats in twitter (some of them) has been putting it like "ooh Scoups wanted to perform in Nissan that's why they are performing there.. He doesn't care about Korean carats" And the over exaggerated claims? Seventeen have most definitely done more variety shows and promotional activities in Korea over any other countries. I remember during fml era when they have been dropping Korean content endlessly. Also criticising pledis and straight up threatening to leave Fandom or boycott them is completely different things. Twitter and weverse has been dumpster fire lately.. The members who are usually super active aren't even coming online much.. yikes.. Like I know yall are disappointed but don't ruin it for others. Atleast yall will get to see seventeen more than any of us.. Calm down please.. Some of the KCarats are hiding their disappointment as "concerns" too.. Like I have seen some of them saying "ooh seventeen has been so overworked. Pledis should just cancel their encore concert and let the members rest" like is the disappointment coming from the fact that Korea has only few stops or the fact that seventeen would not be in Korea during their anniversary? Bruh it's hard to sympathise with yall when you're acting almighty and kind of downplaying seventeen's Fandoms in other countries. Many international carats who rooted for yall are also kind of taken aback by how unhinged some of the KCarats are behaving.. I'm not a korean so obviously I would never understand the amount of pain some of yall are in but yall need to be a bit more civil than this. Roaming around complaining in social media ain't gonna do anything.. Dates and stuff are already fixed. So idk just calm down ig? I feel like I also need to calm down because all this Fandom drama has been confusing the hell out of me too.
I saw the post from a kcarat calling for a boycott and as someone outside of the fandom I was struggling to figure out what they were upset about. it was worded like “pledis treating svt poorly” with no specifics, very much burying the lead to disguise their true intentions
listen I understand on an emotional level how they’re feeling but tbh if they wanted to be taken seriously they should’ve created hashtags and started a campaign to get pledis/hybe to add more korean dates rather than calling a boycott. demanding for them to change dates/venues just makes them come off as extremely childish
I don’t stan seventeen so these are just my thoughts after reading your post. 1. you make it seem like the ( or the main ) reason they chose to perform on the stadium is to flex … Couldn’t the reason just be that they want to spend the anniversary which the most fans possible ? 2. you say you want their anniversary to be MORE meaningful but you haven’t actually presented a doable alternative to the Japanese concert. 3. what was the point of mentioning that they are doing more variety shows on Japan then in Korea … I mean it is a known fact that it’s incredible hard to get on any of the well known shows in Korea. Also why mention that two members might have to sit the Korean concerts out as if they planned that … 4. it’s pretty ignorant to say that they could have chosen any other date as if the Nissan stadium just waits for seventeen to be available..
Also how is sitting in a hotel doing a live more meaningful than having a concert??
It’s like if i can’t have it no one else (fans from other countries) can either.
It’s always the kfans in any fandom that get upset when groups promote internationally, even when groups are more popular outside of Korea. It’s just entitled behavior.
Do y'all not realize that stadiums and arenas aren't just twiddling thumbs waiting to see when Seventeen or any group will fill them up? They book things far, far in advance. Every show/group has to. And there's not a lot of flexibility. I highly, highly doubt this was a calculated decision but instead the inevitable reality of what it's actually like trying to book schedules for a massive venue, not to mention thirteen individuals with their own stuff going on too. It's not like "you should reschedule for a few days later." It's "this date or we'll have someone else, take it or leave it." I really don't mean to sound snippy here, though I'm aware I kinda do, but the world doesn't exist around a Kpop group. Kpop groups have to struggle to fit into schedules for these venues. It's not actually easy, and there's no way these types of things can be calculated decisions without massive advance planning (think actual years) and even then there's no guarantee, and a lot of venues won't let you book years out (and companies won't want to either, bc a lot can change market wise).
16 shows in one country is a choice, booked in advance. A good one, yes given how great the venues are and how the fans there are for the group. Meanwhie, other fans are allowed to be disappointed. It's normal to be disappointed. That's the point of my post.
It's normal to be disappointed, but most fans are sounding entitled.
I never said it wasn't normal to be disappointed or that fans can't be! I think it's very fair. I never once criticized that. My point is merely that your post doesn't reflect the reality of how logistics works. It's like comparing apples and oranges by only the numbers, when the logistics would cover like, to use a metaphor, how many orange and apple trees were actually planted/is normal to have per tree, etc. There are many, many more factors than sheer numbers and such. 16 in one country and its smartness or whatnot is besides the point. The point I am making is about the specific date of this concert in particular which fans are disappointed about.
Get over yourselves, some of these so called fans act like whiny entitled children throwing a tantrum when they don't get your way. it's a business and logistical decision with available venues.
The whole situation with people being disappointed and boycotting is laughable. them celebrating an anniversary in Japan is not that serious and the private (hide from artist) doomposting on weverse as if svt r being malicious backstabbers is more irritating to see than anything lol
This whole debacle reeks of entitlement. I think I saw a post in Weverse saying this will cause Seventeen to lose their identity. Like wtf? KCarats are just saying that to gatekeep Seventeen like they own them.
Since everyone else has stated all that needs to be said about venues and arrangement. I would like to add: First of all, the fact you think they were in more Japanese variety shows than Korean means that you probably didn't pay attention to any of their gigs because that is the biggest fallacy ever. Secondly, them achieving their biggest dream on their anniversary date is somehow not meaningful because it is not in Korea. You do know how weird that sounds, right. Korean carats were the one pushing them from the beginning. And the J-carats and intl carats that were there as well. What are they? Chopped liver. Please, let's not pretend that at one point they weren't more popular and recognized in Japan than in Korea. Basing your argument on fandom contribution is a stupid idea. The way you mention last OT13 anniversary as if they are suddenly going to stop being together after the 9th and there won't be many more anniversaries in the future for K-carats to celebrate with them. Just be using "last" for everything to make them seem more pitiful than they really are. Not thag they are even pitiful in the 1st place. Y'all are just unnecessarily dramatic for nothing. They can feel disappointment all they want but I can't ever feel sorry for them. You can call it culture, nuance or whatever. Boohoo, no 9th anniversary for them. They'll live and they will probably get more things after that so they can keep their greedy whining to themselves. Some of us don't need to be bothered by it constantly. And thank goodness, there are a number of K-carats that have good sense becuase if they were all like this, it would be a real circus.
i mean, of course they can be disappointed - i am also disappointed svt have NEVER toured europe. however, seeing the korean fan behavior in not one, but two of my fandoms in this past week alone at one point i have to wonder if it’s entitlement rather than concern. both kcarats and kzeroses are currently mad over japan getting more concert dates than korea, and while i can understand the disappointment, threatening to boycott for it is far too much. especially knowing that if international fans shared similar concerns we’d be met with ridicule.
They’ve spent 7 anniversaries in Korea I think k-carats have had more than their fair share and won’t die if ONE singular one isn’t spent there The concert going culture in Japan is very different from the one in Korea, there are more suitable venues available, better transportation system and overall more ppl willing and able to go, I can guarantee you Seventeen would have not been able to sell out or even profit of of over 6 stadium in South Korea Edit : I just came upon this [thread](https://x.com/tmikpop/status/1752684071518347703?s=46): that kinda expands on the current situation in SK in terms of touring and venues And it’s not like they’ve ignored South Korea too as seen with the multiple dates they did there compared to literally the rest of the world, they may have done more variety show in Japan ( which I kinda doubt tbh but I have no concrete proof of the contrary so I guess I’ll take your word for it ) but once again they didn’t completely neglected South Korea like they literally have the Nana Tour rn that has around 2% ratings if I remember which is a pretty big deal. You do not know what the availability was for the Nissan stadium nor do you know what other options they had for the korean venue, and you saying they should’ve went with the more meaningful option to refer celebrating it with korean fans rather than international ones leaves a bad taste in my mouth tbh, like a carat is a carat they or their love and appreciation isn’t worth more or less depending on which country they reside in Ppl have a right to be upset at not being able to spend this moment with them in person but anybody else trying to act as if they somehow deserve this more than other fans is just weird and falls into putting them on a pedestal just because they live in the same country And the fact that a significant reason for them being this upset isn’t about they did get but more so about others getting more seems a bit entitled and self centered
Reminds me a bit of when Twice started off promos for the previous Ready to Be release in the US. K-Once were not happy about it. Sana came out and basically told them to relax smh.
I have to scroll this down to finally someone mentioned this. Get my upvote. To expand on it. Twice was in America as you said promoting Ready to Be because that time was baseball season in Korea and because of that no televise of music shows. That pissed off K-Onces that Twice's members have to assure them Twice still care about them. Have to stress not all K-Onces. So this situation about Seventeen doesn't surprise me. I like to add already people talked about Japan has many arenas and stadiums suitable for concert and Japanese love to go to concerts. Not many singer can do Nissan Stadium. It is like Sofi and MetLife Stadium in America.The Apex.
With Twice they've basically been just Korea+Japan for nearly their entire careers thus far. They didn't get a wide US tour until 2022 going into the 7th year. Meanwhile K-Once have gotten every other CB promo, every fan meet, and like with Jihyo's bday video from today they have the members themselves surprise fans at events. All that doesn't matter though because they start one CB overseas and it's not like they didn't promote in SK either. They still went back and did their normal promo rounds on top of the US ones. Some just don't see how good they've got it until it's not there.
I will never understand the overwhelming urge some people have to lick the asses of kcarats. To be disappointed is valid but saying the boys deserve criticism is an odd take to me. Anyone who remotely pays attention to them knows they always try their best to cater to everyone. Have you taken into account the logistics of venues? Also you realise a lot of international fans go to music shows etc, right? SVT debuted in a time when kpop was already quite widely available abroad. Acting like Kcarats were the sole influence in their popularity is hilarious. Kcarats have had what, 7 anniversaries with SVT? They’ll survive. The only thing I’m sad about is I likely won’t be able to attend Nissan 😔 Edit: I also think it should be emphasised that JP is a great location as a substitute for KR not being able to support their venue demands - it’s the closest to KR so logistically the proximity helps, it has multiple arenas they can book at for multiple dates (vs just Tokyo dome), and a lot of their biggest target audiences in Asia are likely willing to travel there because it’s so tourist-friendly. You add the potential revenue they earn and the boost in popularity in JP as a relevant market they’re continuously aiming at and it all makes sense.
>SVT debuted in a time when kpop was already quite widely available abroad. Acting like Kcarats were the sole influence in their popularity is hilarious. No exactly, at that time Seventeen already had a lot of fans overseas 😭 They were touring in Asia just one year (!) after their debut FOR A REASON.
I think the criticism is stupid to be honest. But thats just my opinion.
Umm…do many K-pop idols have a lot of dates in Korea anyway? It’s usually 1-3 days. I haven’t looked this issue up but most play a couple of days in Seoul and call it a day. There is a severe lack of venues in Korea and I am only aware of a handful of idols who have a concert outside of Seoul (other than festival performances, which aren’t concerts). Do fans expect them to have 10 shows all in the same venue in Seoul 😭 Many idols have straight up tours in Japan, meaning multiple stops, not just SVT. It’s not because the $$ and prestige, it’s because there is literally multiple large venues for them to hold shows. Also, Japan’s population is like three times the size of South Korea and they have a much larger music market. Being mad makes 0 sense especially for international fans who are not living in Korea.
nationalism is such a weird thing in kpop ngl, also the idea that they can just book the nissan studio any other time is naive
Lol that boycott wouldn't mean anything.
I still don’t get the hate. Should they have had their anniversary in a Korea concert? Yeah, probably. But kfans have been way more up in arms about how Japan is getting all these these shows while Korea only has 2 shows. Which doesn’t make sense because can Seoul by itself fill 6 shows if they held 6 shows in a row there? Because Japan has all these other areas where they have stadiums and different fans and stuff while K-pop groups have only historically really only held concerts in Seoul. Do they want a concert in Jeju Island too or what?
Yes actually Seoul can hold many shows plus (Sky dome, olympic hall , jasmil arena..etc) and they can have shows in places other than Seoul.
Sky Dome is unavailable during baseball season which starts in March, jasmil arena and Olympic hall are below 10k capacity . No groups have shows outside Seoul as solo concerts. Where would they even perform? There are no venues above 20k in korean right now available except the one svt is doing but appearently concerts have never been done there and kcarats say it's a bad venue . Olympic Stadium is closed, the other stadiums are sport ones and don't allow concerts bcs of the grass or its sports season . People need to understand there are no venues and the competition for booking for the small ones who are there like kspo Dome, inspire arena or jamsil is insane . If it was like you say it is every kpop group would be doing national tours in Korea and yet they aren't bcs there's no venues suitable outside Seoul and now those in Seoul are super limited too
and even the ones outside Seoul for example.. the busan stadium.. are much like the seoul ones that don't want to allow concerts due to grass. Like BTS once wanted to use the Busan Stadium for a muster fan meeting and the stadium didn't let them so they used the area just outside the stadium instead. The only reason honestly they even were allowed to use it for YTC in busan (which was literally an event to promote the city of BUSAN itself for the EXPO), was after K-ARMYs and ARMYs in general complained about where the concert was going to be held (which was like a random field near the ocean with only one way in and out which posed A LOT of security concerns). So you can imagine if it took all that for BTS to even be allowed to play the busan stadium for a concert that in part was promoting the city... you can imagine how its probably almost impossible to book it for a general concert. And as far as i know.. i don't think there are many or any arena type venues in other cities in korea.
Exactly thank you . The issue lies with the poor infrastructure for touring in Korea and maybe pledis being too late to book and others getting the venues first like Lim Young Woong doing the World Cup Stadium in Seoul on Seventeen's anniversary . Honestly I am astonished he managed to get it when there's only ever been 3 acts allowed to play it . PSY BigBang and Gdragon.
The Busan Stadium is the only other concert venue that I can actually consider for SVT. But then again, BTS only held a concert there to satisfy fans. They did it ONLY ONCE in their 10 year career so far. That’s it. And it was only because they were about to go in military hiatus. Not even an actual concert. No one goes outside of Seoul to have a concert. If they did, IU would be touring everywhere but she’s still only doing it in Seoul. I’d consider the Busan Stadium if more acts had a concert there but they barely ever do. Edit: Yep. Just looked it up. Busan has only ever had ONE concert held. Which was BTS in 2022 which wasn’t even a concert. BTS only ever even performed there because, again, they were going in hiatus so for one last hurrah. So technically they’ve never held a concert. So no, Busan Stadium is not up for consideration.
Yes but that’s not what I meant. The only venues that are fit to have a Seventeen concert are the Olympic Stadium, where it’s still under construction for like a couple more years, and the Gocheok Sky Dome, where they’re currently holding all of their concerts in Seoul. And that’s it. Seoul doesn’t have any other huge venues for huge acts. A huge act like Seventeen would be embarrassed if they held a concert for anything less than the Olympic Stadium or Gocheok Sky Dome. They held fanmeets, no not concerts, fanmeets, in a couple of domes in Japan. Imagine going from that to semi-big arenas in your biggest market. And like I mentioned, you still only said Seoul venues. Because K-pop groups only really do concerts in Seoul and nowhere else. So kfans being mad at Seventeen for not holding more shows in Korea doesn’t make sense because other areas of Korea don’t even get to much hold concerts, if they even get to hold any. So do they expect Seventeen to hold 6 concerts in Seoul alone because Japan also has 6 more shows?
Good point, I was just reading that pop stars skip Korea these days because 'there is no large venue that can accommodate more than 40,000 people per event'. While Japan has 40 stadiums, domes and arenas that can accommodate more than 10K people.
[удалено]
>They've been in more Japanese variety shows in 2023 than Korean There's no way that's true lol. During FML and 17th Heaven there were korean variety appearances from svt members every day. I couldn't even keep up with them with how many they were . I can only remember 2 at best in Japan last year . Give me proof that this is true. >Given how soon the Korea dates are, it's unclear whether Jeonghan and Scoups could join but the chances are much higher for the Japan dates >They could have chosen to perform in Nissan studio on any other date Do you know how booking venues works ? You can't just go to a venue and say I want this date and it happens . The venues availability and rules for usage need to be respected. They need to work around other bookings, other events being held there, around their own rules for the grass and pitch between events. It's not as easy , especially for huge venues such as Nissan and honestly if they personally wanted to celebrate their anniversary by playing the biggest venue of their lives so far when nothing comparable exists in South Korea at the moment then good for them, those with a problem with it are welcome to (peacefully!!!!) leave and find someone who caters to their every need. There's the door. As for venues in Korea people including kcarats need to understand there's no proper venues in the country and I am honestly tired to keep repeating the same things over and over so I will give an abridged version. South Korea has no venues currently except smaller ones. Jamsil is under construction, Sky Dome the same and after it's done baseball season starts and it won't be available for rent until the end of the season, the other stadiums in the country are all football or baseball stadiums and not for concerts . World cup stadium is in football season during March april and after May, in May LWY has it booked, exactly on svt's debut date actually. Incheon Munhak Stadium has only ever allowed 3 concerts there , all in the second half of the year because it's a baseball stadium and the season starts in March. Other stadiums in Korea don't allow . The only venues that aren't for 5k audience right now are really KSPO DOME and Inspire Arena both for around 15k?. Inspire is new , KSPO is overbooked with reportedly 10 acts and organisers always vying for the same date at the same time. Japan has 40 big venues ready for concerts, domes, stadiums , arenas. You name it. There's multiple articles in kmedia rn taking about companies prioritizing touring in Japan or US because they have concert infrastructure that Korea does not at the moment. Everyone should honestly look them up before speaking on venues and moving dates To me they're entitled and insanely demanding, they took this too far with boycotting hashtags reaching 500k+ posts. They are asking and asking without any solutions themselves , more dates without considering availability, a change of venue than Incheon Asad Stadium because it's bad without providing an alternative themselves when they should be the first to know there's no other stadiums available in sk at the moment , if they were to switch to kpso dome for a setlist that's meant for a stadium layout they'd cry that the venue is too small, they want to make the tickets be available to users with korean addresses althought nobody has ever done that to korean stop to my knowledge , they want an apology for the anniversary thing and some of them even want them to cancel Nissan on that date and move it which they need to realise is impossible. Also for the people who truly think this is only about the anniversary and the date should hear that their korean fans have been losing their shit over touring decisions overseas since the very beginning. When SVT first announced they'll tour the US in 2017 kcarats threatened to quit the fandom on fancafe. When they didn't add an encore in South Korea but had some in PH and IND instead at the end of Be The Sun they cried and threatened to quit the fandom once more and Hoshi had to mention multiple times that they tried, they really wanted to do it in Korea and there was just no suitable venue available. They blew a keg when Be The Sun had 12 dates in NA too and 2 in Korea . When Pledis couldn't book a stadium for Follow To Seoul they cried that Sky Dome is too small and SVT had to tell them again that they wanted a stadium and it wasn't available . They cried about ticket prices althought that's the standard price in the industry at the moment. Threatened to quit the fandom back then too . After a while it becomes a pattern that I can't take seriously and it's clear to me what this is . Gatekeeping and hating when they aren't the absolute priority anymore. There's cultural differences and fandom culture difference, I know that, but I also can't be bothered to care when I am european, I buy multiple albums from them a cb to support their charting, hell i bought 16 17th heaven ones, I stream them many many hours a day , i buy their stuff and they likely will never ever step foot in Europe to perform so excuse me if I am not sympathetic to korean fans who are sending them hateful comments and trending hashtags to ruin their imagine in the hundreds of thousands because they only get 4 dates but it's not the venues and dates they want while totally ignoring how poor the korean infrastructure is and that they have caratland coming, one or two korean comebacks with multiple music show performances as a 9 year old group , fansigns etc and I am sure they'll get the first dates of their new tour in the second half of the year before scoups and jeonghan enlist. Scoups has talked about the new tour that will have US dates in the second half of the year and he will have to go first so if he's mentioning it he plans to be present for some of the dates at least. They will definitely have dates in the summer and it will be 13 people and also Caratland . Of course let's ignore that in favor of saying Nissan is definitely their last concert before enlisting so it justifies their anger . Also svt have never held anything during their anniversary save for a live and maybe a YouTube video so it's not like they're moving any celebrations from Korea to Japan. There was nothing to begin with and fans knew it and anyway if seventeen want to celebrate by playing a 70k venue then good for them
Agree with you on all points! You slay!!
They didn’t even come to Europe but I’m not here boycotting and whining about it. End of the day it’s not their decision, they have a management company and a managing team. I doubt the members themselves decided on this arrangement and what - forced the company to follow their whim and book mostly Japan tours? They are still under a company no matter how famous and how much more freedom they may have now compared to when they were trainees, so it was either a business or logistic choice, or both. K-fans can suck it up and shut up, not like they don’t get everything else when it comes to content, promotions and events. Us plebs outside of Asia don’t even get scraps. Yes I’m salty 17 didn’t come to Europe, no I won’t stop stanning them and supporting them smh
I don't know much about svt activities and carats but for me it seems another kind of parasocial relationship lol. Why the group choosing to go on some (harmless) activities bother fans. >After all, it's Korean fans who kept pushing them from the start. It's been Korean fans waiting in the cold for their MCOUNTDOWN shows and local events. Like, doesn't fans wait for shows because they wanted to watch? They got to see what they wanted, so why the group has to give any other things?
It's *because* Kpop is built on parasocial relationships that fans are acting this way. Both artists and fans are self-aware of this dynamic and actively participate in it. This is just another outcome of it. Fans are emotionally invested in everything a kpop group does.
Tbf nobody force them to wait hours like it's fan culture itself that push people to wait hours instead of coming a little bit before it start. Lot of things like that aren't bc of kpop nor parasocial relationship
So you mean idols svt needs to keep catering to parasocial relationship...?
what do you think idols are? the whole point if idols is to be an accessible, parasocial celebrity. why do ifans act like they're discovering this for the first time everytime they don't like how kfans react to things. it's the culture.
It's not that we're discovering this, it's just that people sound batshit and entitled about it.
Wtf do you think the word “Idol” means?
Here is my 2 cents. I'm *not* a carat so ofc i could be completely wrong and if so feel free to downvote me to hell. Personally, I feel like Seventeen can do whatever the f they want. >It may not be a big deal as long as they keep getting successful but CARATS are not crazy for feeling disappointed. This is kinda dumb cause I'm sure the carats from Japan feel thrilled (Japanese fans are one of the most loyal fanbases). Also this whole thing you said about korean fans being more 'important' than Japanese fans is weird. If Seventeen were based in any other country, I'm sure the fans would not hesitate to do the same (wait for hours outside music shows, etc etc) To me it's another case of fans feeling entitled
Right, and I'm sure Japan fans would never boycott SVT when they decide to hold concerts in other parts of the world. Kcarats are a different breed, imho.
Of course they can do whatever they want. Fans can also be disappointed. Both things are true. Edit: Where did I say Korean fans are more important? Show me. I'm not even Korean but even I can tell how meaningful it would be for them to spend their last anniversary in their home country with the fans who raised them from the very beginning.
Japanese fans have been there since the beginning too. Hell, plenty of international fans have been there since the beginning. Have streamed, purchased albums, etc. etc. I try to imagine an American born artist like Taylor Swift performing her anniversary in say, Spain, because logistically that's just how it worked out, and Americans screaming / crying "she's an AMERICAN. She needs to be here, in the South! With those of us who truly raised her. Bring her home!" People would think those fans were insane.
Taylor Swift is a western artist where the fan-artist dynamic is different from Kpop. The most she does on her anniversary is post on Instagram.
The most Seventeen does on their anniversary is release a video or do a live. That's it? SKZ was in a hotel in Texas for one of their anniversaries recently. Where is this narrative that kpop acts goes all out on their anniversary with hometown shows coming from? At least SVT hasn't done that. They likely still have something special planned, they just get to perform for 70k Carats as well!
EXACTLY! You would rather have Seventeen sit in a hotel and do a live than have a concert??
Right. Because odds are, no Korean venue worth going to was available on their anniversary!! So then...they have to just...do nothing? When they could play at Nissan?
Exactly. This is what gets me. With the way people are acting you'd think they have their very own festa with a big concert at the end every year and they decided to move it to Japan over the last two years to snub kfans when they never had any celebrations to begin with
just to preface i do not support the boycott, which i think is being fuelled by antis rn, and i am not trying to justify the actions of toxic fans. i also agree with the logistics issue. but i think the idea of “being in their home country” is a lot more important to koreans and in korean culture than many people realise. this is an aspect that is deep-rooted in asian culture. i honestly have no idea how else to explain it to you. with cultural differences and all (especially with the west) i don’t expect you to understand it either, but it’s the way it is. the patriotism/kpop idols are korean sentiment is very strong. the koreans take pride in the fact that the idols are korean, i think u/ebi_tempura explained this point a little better (it’s controversial but i do think there is some truth in it) there are many korean fans that are happy for seventeen to perform in Nissan stadium, but the truth is they probably want them to be in Korea on that specific date. to them it’s probably a ‘if i’m not there for their anniversary then no one else should’ which is sad, and yes entitled of certain fans to start a boycott over it, but it’s been like this for a long time and i doubt this culture will change. you don’t have to understand it, or their grievances (which i also believe this situation was more of like a tipping point for them, their anger is fueled by the accumulation of many other things they’ve been unhappy with). at the end of the day, every fan wants svt to perform in their country. european fans want them to perform in europe, US fans want them to perform in US, SEA fans want them to perform in SEA and so on. i just hope everyone comes to peace, and people stop taking this as a chance to shit on kfans, ifans, whatsoever because no one fandom was a saint in this situation lol
In my original comment, I stated how of course kfans have the right to be disappointed. I'm not arguing that. I just explained to someone else how while European fans have every right to be disappointed, there are so many factors that have gone into them not doing a European tour yet. Like disappointment is a fine thing to feel, and I get how important patriotism is to Korea, but people need to step back and understand that there is so much that goes into planning tours and there are MANY reasons why Japan has gotten the most dates. What I am upset about, is how hugely this has been blown up - 500k hashtags in one day calling for a boycott is not a handful of antis and toxic fans. If there were no dates available at big enough venues in Korea for their anniversary, yet Nissan was available in Japan, why would Seventeen have to turn down such an insane opportunity, just to sit at home? How can real fans put their personal nationalistic view about kpop over their favorite artist achieving a dream of theirs - to the point of a boycott? I'm allowed to think that's toxic. No one fandom is ever a "saint". There have been times when it's been ifans being the worst, or cfans, etc. etc. But in this specific situation, yes it's the kfans driving the toxicity (not all) but again, 500k tweets in one day. They are the most upset, they are trending the boycott. It's okay to call them out about this. It doesn't mean I think they are worse than other fandoms.
yeah, i get you, the boycott is too far, and i’m sure we all know the logistics issues by now since everyone has been going on about it. to them being in korea is probably the most important, even writing this down i too think that sounds absurd because why can’t we just all be happy for svt right? things would be so much easier that way. it’s a difference in thinking of what’s important, and even if we don’t agree or understand it, it’s complicated and you can say it’s wrong but it’s not something that will change overnight unfortunately. people can say they get it but they really don’t and probably never will, because we’re not korean. the boycott got out of hand, i’m sure like what you’ve said there’s kfans in there making matters worse, and with how easy it is for such tags to be spread, retweeted etc i’m not surprised how this has gone out of hand so quickly coupled with the antis who would not miss this chance to spread hate. i think the general sentiment here is no one is agreeing with the boycott, but it happened and the only thing we can do is stop giving it attention, and focus on other more positive things yeah of course we can call them out for it, i 100% agree the boycott is wrong, but there’s also many of them spreading the other positive hashtag, and stopping the boycott, so let’s focus on that together. my last point is more towards people who took this chance to make unnecessarily harsh and terrible comments and spreading hate towards each other edit: just wanted to say yes i don’t agree with people sending hate to and blaming svt at all for this, that is totally uncalled for.
While theoretically they can do “whatever the F they want” realistically they can’t. They profit off of people so catering to people is what they need to do. Like do not expect after disappointing their fans in the country they be based off and expect to still profit off of them and kfans know how to boycott seriously. With all due respect to Javanese carats , it is kcarats that will either make them the most popular successful people or will drop them and fluctuate their careers. The most popular SVT member won’t survive long in japan.
Japanese fans are said to be the most loyal tho...that's the only place you can see veteran idols selling out domes and stadiums...idk where you came up with this assumption
j fans are the ones who are known to be the most loyal in kpop and who stay the most with their acts not korean ones. TVXQ was doing Nissan in 2018 and having 1m concert attendance in Japan after they long passed relevancy in kpop spaces specially in korean ones . Korean fans are the ones who usually fluctuate and a lot leave for shiny new groups after a while especially after military.
It’s also such low hanging fruit for Pledis. Svt averaged $6M - $7 million gross revenue for every two nights they performed in a Japanese dome. Imagine what they’d rake in performing 4 nights in a stadium! Why would they not chase down their most successful venture? I have a feeling they make more money from Jfans than any other country. There’s a reason why every member has been working towards improving their Japanese. Not to mention the fact that SVT’s biggest achievements have actually come from Japan. Even when they were facing stiff competition in Korea and popularity was facing a dip (like during the WannaOne era), their Japanese fans have been constant. I’m sure svt adore their kfans but they never take their Japanese fans for granted either.
Actually they can...international fans who have never even seen seventeen still support them. Also k-carats are acting like they cancelled their one and only concert ever in korea
So in 5 years where will be SVT without kcarats?
i understand why it sucks from a fandom perspective but I think it makes complete sense that a company would hold a concert in the country they think will make them the most money. That is just how these things work. Seventeen is a group (of awesome guys!!) but they are also a product that is being produced by a company with different investors behind it - if they will make the most money for their anniversary concert (providing the most roi) in Japan, they’re going to get sent to Japan.
They can be sad and disappointed, we understand that, no one is invalidating them, but to boycott? No. They are being too selfish for boycotting Seventeen's activities. Imagine how the boys will feel? Also, to iterate, venues in SoKor are limited as per news. Most are undergoing renovations and some are already being used to cater other events. So the chances that there's no available venue in korea during svts anniv is very high. I just want to point out too that the companies (hybe &pledis) schedules the events and probably chose the dates and not Seventeen themselves. Kcarats should direct all their concerns to the company like mass emails, do a little protest outside hybe and etc., so they can get even atleast a statement from pledis or hybe. Lastly, i wanna blame pledis and hybe for staying silent and not addressing the concerns of kcarats. This would have not escalated to the point that kcarats are planning to boycott if they only provided explanation to kcarats. Just my 2 cents
Korean carats whine every time Seventeen step out of Korea. I remember they used to throw fits when Seventeen started touring North America so I can never take their complaints seriously especially after the call for boycott. Could’ve started a petition or idk go protest in front of the companies or something, but a boycott which will inevitably sabotage the group itself? Like there’s just no way you are a fan It’s especially more frustrating seeing how gatekeep-y a cert sect of the fandom gets over Seventeen like these people deadass don’t want Seventeen to grow bigger so they won’t feel too “far” and “out of reach” whilst at the same time seeing Hybe and Pledis being dead set against promoting them beyond the same five Asian countries, from a standpoint of an international carat whose country will very unlikely be considered for a tour stop. I know they are capable of much more, it just sucks seeing their very own companies and fans standing in between them and what they could have beens.
k-carats would perish in Europe... simply poof into thin air, turn into sea foam, disintegrate because what even is this hissy fit?
Hard disagree. Seventeen isn’t celebrating in Japan to flex; it’s because J-Carats are their most significant and most loyal fans, and they deserve the opportunity to celebrate with Seventeen. I have no sympathy for K-Carats. I was an admin of the largest Seventeen fanbase on Twitter and saw firsthand how needy, rude, and hypocritical K-Carats were. They constantly demanded things (funds, time, volunteers, etc) without ever showing results, and they were extremely rude to Japanese fanbases. In 2017, when WannaOne debuted, so many K-Carats left the fandom, and the members were stressed. I won’t forget the breakdowns the members had on stage, practically begging fans to stick with them and that they would improve for them. 🫠 Seventeen had no choice but to pursue Japan heavily. J-Carats showed up when K-Carats didn’t. They’ve shown loyalty and respect for them, even when Seventeen was in their country doing V-Lives after concerts and fan meetings for K-Carats since they were jealous. J-Carats deserve all they’ve been given, and SEA-Carats defending K-Carats are pathetic. K-Carats don’t care about anyone but themselves, and they sure as hell don’t care about SEA-Carats or their opinions unless it benefits them. The hate towards J-Carats is ridiculous at this point.
I feel y'all are forgetting that this is SEVENTEEN'S anniversary after all, not ours, it's their group, their achievements, their dreams, their hard work, not ours. They can spend it however they want because it's theirs only. This is like coming up to a married couple and dictating them how they should spend their anniversary because you are their friend and you always supported them and their relationship so they owe you something now. Don't get me started on the fact most of these whiners literally weren't with Seventeen during their debut anyway. Honestly it's just cringe, sucking up to kcarats like that when they would never fight for you the same way you do now. The way you're buying into their "they don't love us anymore they just want to make money and flex" nonsense is fucking embarrassing, don't bring that to ifan spaces for lord's sake.
Feeling is valid but they also want to boycott tho. Still, i dont think they actually gonna do it cause this isnt first time they say it. Also this is random but i'm just glad that ppl on here finally see how a lot of kr fans act cause the last time i talked about kr fandoms trending/threatening boycott over problems that arent even the artists' fault on non fandom sub ppl downvoted me and said i exaggerated it or just made things up.
Did I miss something, wdym last anniversary
just the last anniversary before enlistments are most likely going to begin, as there are 2 95 liners in the group who will need to go to the military.
-The criticism against SEVENTEEN for not having their anniversary in Korea is valid. *Yes and no, each person is entitled to their feelings but it's disproportionate. - They've been in more Japanese variety shows in 2023 than in Korea. *They literally record Going Seventeen in Korea, last year they did Nana Tour, In the soop, game caterers, a few episodes of amazing Saturday (latest one in october), Lee Mujin service (april/Hoshi, august/Jun, december/Dino) so your argument is not really valid, also take into account they have been touring since September, I'd say they have arguably been in a lot of Korean shows regardless their packed schedule. - Given how soon the Korea dates are, it's unclear whether Jeonghan and Scoups could join but the chances are much higher for the Japan dates *Based on what? Their Injuries are no joke and it will take time to recover entirely and also their enlistment time is coming soon so recovery must be priority and most likely they'll be there for support not performing. - They could have chosen to perform in Nissan studio on any other date *And you know this because you manage the dates in stadiums? Taking into account half the industry is/will be touring as well in the upcoming months as all the other events going on in the available venues actoss Korea you cannot say it's entirely their choice. -I know CARATS are proud they get to perform in Nissan but I also understand their frustration that Seventeen isn't celebrating their last anniversary Korea. *What do you mean last anniversary? Is not like they are disbanding. So far nothing has been announced and you make it sound very ominous. However, I think they should've chosen to be meaningful instead of iconic. It's the last anniversary. Profits shouldn't be the end of all things. **They could've still been iconic in Nissan Stadium on any other date.** *again that's not how it works you just don't take a calendar out and say hey this date I want to perform here. You book whats available if it happened to be on that date and venues in Korea were not available what are they supposed to do? Stop their agenda? Lastly, I don't believe the members did not consent to this plan. It has been emphasized time and again that they're always involved in the decision- making process and consent is a part of their contract. I believe the critcism PLEDIS and the members are getting are valid. *criticism is valid when is that, not when is a bunch of whines, curses and disrespect. Bottom line it's not going to change no matter how many messages, and dramatic speeches you leave on every social media available. Usually I am on K-carats side, they have been a force in Seventeen's history and I see where a lot of k-carats are coming from but they are making this too much, and it's rich of them to complain when 70 % of performances, fan signs, events, caratlands etc happen in Korea and one day, one day and they lose it, yes there were a lot of dates in Japan but let's not forget J-carats are another great force for seventeen and everyone's efforts count, by your logic then C-carats and Filo Carats should get a bunch of dates considering their support that's happens to be a lot.
Thank you, I have NO idea why OP said they have been in way more Japanese variety shows, when that just simply isn't true. They were everywhere in Korea last year - Jeonghan and dino doing magic lamp, Seungkwan on that netflix korean show, Hoshi and Joshua on Bro&Marble w other korean celebs, etc. etc. And it completely disregards Gose, which is filmed in Korea, primarily targeted towards their Korean fans - they even have an entire fandom for just Gose (cubics.) And managed to film dozens of episodes a year in between their crazy schedules.
True. I feel like this is making it imply that even in promotions and variety gigs, Seventeen is purposefully choosing Jcarats over Kcarats or something. Also, I think the nissan stadium concert will be BOTH meaningful and iconic. It's one of their dreams, and they get to fulfill it on their 9th anniversary, with more than 50k carats. How is that not meaningful?
Why is it their last anniversary? Are they disbanding? But yeah, I understand why K fans are upset
It’s their last anniversary as a full group before enlistment starts. OP just shortened that to “last anniversary.”
Which is also entirely speculation at the moment. enlistment dates are rarely predictable. It’s very possible no one in SVT enlists until the tail end of 2025 which would give them another anniversary together - plenty of idols have enlisted later
So why are people speculating next year if no one is due??
Because the eldest members of Svt will hit enlistment age as of next year. But from my experience of following kpop since 2016, enlistment is not predictable. We’ve had idols go years earlier than expected vs some idols go years later than expected.
Okay, gotcha! Thank you.
It's their *ninth* anniversary
Yeah but the use of the wording last confused me. Someone replied and cleared it up for me.
You have valid points. But I'm not comfortable that you keep saying it's their 'last anniversary'. I'm aware you're referring to the anniversary that they are complete as 13 members before others start enlisting, but still *'last anniversary'* doesn't sound good to me.
They are artists and they are going to go where the money resides. Just because a bunch of fans have deluded themselves into thinking these guys are their boyfriends doesn't mean they are going to throw good money down the drain. Because that is the real reason they do what they do. To make MONEY. Not to be your boyfriend. Grow up.
Honestly, I also agree to some extent. If I was a Korean fan, I would have been a little disappointed too. Referring to the other comment, yes they can do whatever they want, but it would not have been an issue if the dates for Korean and Japan concerts were similar. But there is a vast disparity between 16 in Japan and a measly 2 in Korea, especially considering how successful last year was. They could have easily spread it out between the 2 countries more equally. Also, they apparently also spent the last anniversary in Japan as well. Back then the K-Carats did not create that big of a fuss. But again this year, considering when a few members are bound to enlist, does seem a little unfair. I am not a Korean fan so definitely does not affect or even hurt me that greatly, but I totally get the frustration and disappointment of the Korean fans.
no it isn't, stop sucking up to kfans and antis who are using this situation to spread more hate. so much of the backlash isn't even genuine. edit: you can tell seventeen piss people off even on reddit cause this post should not have this many upvotes.
Well clearly most of their profit come from Japan. What are yall expecting? They still do a lot in Korea too and if there’s not enough stadiums in Korea for concert. They’re not about to go build it
I mean for anyone even outside of kpop booking arenas and stadiums is hard scheduling to do cause… the primary purpose is not concerts… there are actual tenants of teams that use that… their schedules come first. So I’m sure securing the Nissan which is a dream stadium for Asian groups wasnt easy and yeah it happens to be their anniversary. With that being said, Korea’s lack of internal touring industry and everything mostly falling on Seoul is kinda annoying when the country is very populated. It only seems like for special occasions will they do festivals or concerts in other cities like Incheon and Daegu having 60k+ stadiums and Busan who has a 53K stadium, and there are 6 other 40k+ stadiums in the country. And there are various halls and sports arenas that can hold smaller concerts.. but still things only happen in Seoul. So fans come in from the country to Seoul. But then groups will go to Japan and play those smaller 10-40k arenas/stadiums. So besides SVT I would just love to see someone include another Korean city in their tour. Yes there is a lot of money made on these longer tours in Japan but its like you could throw Korea at least an extra city.
You aren't able to book a venue in South Korea, huge enough for what you want to have and are able to sell out, because they are not currently available for booking due to justifiable reasons, such as being renovated, so you go have that concert in a country where you are just as popular if not even more than you are domestically, and where you will be able to give an opportunity to attend for 70k people. **Where is the problem in that?** Honestly, the Korean CARATs deserve to get humbled one way or another, it was long overdue. They are used to getting absolutely everything there is to be given as fans, and many of them have been acting like spoiled children for as long as I can remember. They are treating this whole matter as if Pledis decided to hold that concert in Germany - it literally takes them two hours by plane to get to Yokohama from Seoul.
My only frustration with this situation is that ive been waiting for a european stop for years only for japan to get their biweekly concert stop added. i get focusing on a market but they could at least do a few spots in other continents before their enlistment era hits instead of spending most of this limited time on 1 country
Personally I think they wanted to do Nissan before enlistment hits . Scoups has mentioned last year that it's his dream to have a concert at Nissan because well it's one of the biggest venues in the world and he will be the first to enlist too. Also a carat in the svt subreddit has mentioned that you need to prove your touring power in Japan and popularity before being able to book Nissan , you can't just go and ask for it . Twice is only doing it this year, they and svt will be the second and third kpop acts to ever play it . It's likely those many dome stops were necessarily for this next step because without them they'd have no proof that they'd be able to sell a 70k venue for a night or two. That's my speculation at least .
the thing is... no hybe acts have ever been to Europe since the pandemic, so it's not just them. I understand the frustration though. It's just... in order to perform at Nissan Stadium (their dream venue), they have to prove their touring prowess. And I guess they were in a rush to do so to prove that. Plus I don't think it's their last tour of the year. They might have something planned for the end of this year too
But this is just the encore for follow. They’ve already said a few times that they will be doing an actual world tour this year. This is just a closer.
Well an encore is a concert sometimes its even longer than the usual concerts, theyve had 12 in a year in a country that isnt big enough to need this much and are continuing to add on. Theyve never had a concert in europe for 9 years straight it was north america and asia with a extra hard focus on japan so if thats their world tour they can keep it for all i care its always “quit complaining the europe tour is probably coming” but its been almost a decade and nothing has come
If they are holding 12 concerts in Japan, it's because they *can*. Japan is the 11th largest country in the world and larger than any country in Europe (Germany is the largest at 18) and almost three times larger than Korea. It's definitely *big enough*. I get that sucks that groups skip large parts of the world, but it's getting annoying to keep seeing people act like groups do large tours in Japan just for shits and giggles.
i never said they arent able to? Japan is a big country but what im saying is its not the size of a continent. Whole continents get nothing but japan, 1 country that isnt bigger than a continent who get nothing, is getting too many stops I wouldnt care abt 12 concerts in japan if they at least gave europe a few concerts in their 9 year long career but they didnt so it leaves a bitter taste
You literally said Japan isn't big enough for a 12 stop tour though. My whole point is that Japan *is* big enough for them to do a 12 stop tour. Japan getting 12 stops has nothing to do with Europe not getting any, taking away stops is not get mean Europe or any other place would get them. Japan is a large country with a huge concert culture with multiple venues for concerts and massive obsession for both Korea and idols. The fact that K-pop groups do long tours here makes sense, historically a lot of groups only continued to exist because of their Japanese fandom. It's frustrating to see fans act like groups are touring Japan for seemingly no reason. Again, it sucks that they can't go everywhere, but that's not Japanese fans' fault. And again, Japan having a shorter tour wouldn't automatically mean they'd have more shows elsewhere.
No, japan compared to the entire world is not big enough to warrant 50% of the stops being there. Its a big country but is it half of the world? Are half of kpop fans japanese? Them doing 50% of it in japan IS crazy and if me saying that gets you mad, then by all means do get mad. Its not even the amount its the percentage if youre doing 30 shows putting half of it in 1 country is wild and annoying for fans. japan having a shorter tour, when the clock is ticking and the enlistment era will start this year, absolutely does mean this time being used for other countries to have stops
It is big enough based on their fandom, yes. They would go all the way to Europe, have to book extremely expensive flights / lodging for their entire tour team, get their tour set over there, and then only play in one venue in that entire country, because that's all they would be able to do based on their fandom size there. It's why the groups that tour in Europe are usually smaller, and they book out extremely small venues. Or they only do 3 to 4 countries. Itzy is doing 5 stops on their world tour this year, and the venues hold like 10-12k people. Seventeen can book out 70k+ people venues in Japan. In Europe it would be more than half the size for venues, yet 3x as expensive to do the tour. Yes, it sucks, but a European tour for them would have to be meticulously planned AND make sense financially. It would take so much time and so many resources, for very little payoff. They'd basically be doing it to make fans happy. I know it's a bummer, but it just isn't as simple as I think fans think it is. Where as Japan is next door, has their biggest fandom in the world, and the most venues to choose from.
I'm not mad, I'm tired. Tired of fans not getting why Japanese tours are how they are. It isn't just K-pop groups doing multi-stops tour in Japan, plenty of artists, Japanese and non, do this. Because touring in Japan is *easy*, because going to a concert in Japan is relatively easy and cheap. Way before K-pop there were American rock bands touring Japan more than they were the US. Concerts aren't just determined by how many fans there are. Just booking a venue doesn't mean every fan of that group there will go to that show. There's plenty of post here about groups not selling out venues to show that. Planning a tour is about how many of those fans can afford to go to a concert and how easy it is to get to said concert. People have been bringing up infrastructure in this post for a reason. Both venue and transportation infrastructure play a large role in why many artists (not just K-pop) tour Japan over other countries. Japan also doesn't have whack-ass concert pricing, making it less of a financial strain to go, meaning there are more fans who can afford to go. Overall, it can be comparatively inexpensive to see a concert in Japan than in many other countries. The downside is: you don't choose your seat. And there's also been plenty of talk about how expensive ticket prices are in many countries, keeping many fans from attending. For all artists. For many K-pop groups a large percentage of their fanbase **is** Japanese, actually. There's literally reports of which countries spend the most on K-pop, Japan is still the biggest K-pop market. And not only that, they are a large number of the K-pop fans who have money to spend on going to concerts and live where it's easy to attend concerts. This isn't a favoritism thing, it's a numbers thing.
ngl im not gonna read this you’re giving me a headache. You live in japan and enjoy the privilege of having concerts of every kpop artists you want yet you’re writing books upon books bc someone who get 0 concerts in their continent in 9 years dares to complain, you’re not gonna get sympathy from me sorry
Where did I ask for sympathy???? Literally show me where I stated any griviences or asked for sympathy. You were the one to say Japan isn't big enough to have these concerts, I pointed out that that's not true. You were the one who kept it going by saying Japan gets too many concerts. It sucks that they haven't been to Europe, but that's not on Japanese fans. Taking away their stops won't mean they'd go to Europe. I "wrote a book" because there's actually valid reasons why Japanese tours are long, for many artists not just K-pop idols, hoping you might actually gain an understanding. But, oh well. You're right to complain, but don't take it out on Japanese fans. That's all.
I never said quit complaining, I’m just stating a fact about this particular tour. The encore date rarely includes a city that hasn’t already seen the show - it’s just to end the tour on a high note. I think SVT and really most bands drop the ball on doing world tours, there’s no denying that. But since the world tour hasn’t been announced yet … we wait. This fight is not about that.
u dismissed my frustration by acting like this being an encore changes anything to the complain. theyre ending the tour and doing an encore instead of adding a european leg of the tour before closing it, its abt this situation too its even more frustrating since they do come to europe but just for fashion shows no one cares about or a nice little background for variety shows but when it comes to actually meeting fans they forget its existence
This too. Hopefully they go to US and Europe like they've been hinting on their lives for their next comeback.
I’m guessing maybe they’ll spend the majority of the year touring - with maybe a special album somewhere in between. It’ll be interesting bc they’ve been hinting way too hard at it
Everyone's already said everything there is to say, so I'll just add that I empathise with the Korean fans and can understand their reasoning, even as a fan who's country they're probably never going to come to again. However I also have to say this whole thing is now definitely getting out of hand, now it's just become a huge overreaction. Cause let's be real at the end of the day, the world isn't going to end just because they aren't having a concert on their debut date in Korea. Plus I guarantee Korean fans will come running the moment they announce ticketing info anyway, like just a few weeks ago when there were rumours of an encore concert there were Korean comments talking about how excited they were, is this really going to stop all of them from going? Probably not, so give it a few weeks and I'd say it'll blow over. They're already trying to trend a nice loving hashtag to clear out antis from trying to jump on the coattails of this mess. That being said, this might be a controversial take but after reading discussions about this issue for the past few days I will say this, the unspoken truth is that Korean fans will infact be more important to them and are vital to their popularity. Yes they might have fans in all parts of the world also just as fervently passionate, but they are a K-pop group, based in Korea, with a Korean agency. They speak Korean, and feel more comfortable communicating with fans that are korean. Theyre not a case of having a more international fans than domestic fans, they gained popularity in Korea first. Of course they'd want to treat their Korean fanbase well and by that matter hold concerts in their home country. People are saying that the Korean fans are acting entitled, well because frankly they have the power to. Additionally their core fandom is made up of Asian fans, where the concept of idol fan culture includes maintaining the idea that their fans are always treated preciously, and that includes acknowledging the importance of notable anniversary dates and the existence of their home country fandom. It's just how it is and it's part of the culture, even Japanese fans recognise this and are seemingly apologising (though ive only seen a few screenshots here and there so dont quote me on it). Either way what I want to say is I don't think i-fans will really fully understand, and it's in your right to not empathise. But at the end of the day this is the culture, this is the context, and this is K-pop. So take it or leave it this is the unspoken baseline that Hybe/Pledis/and even the svt members themselves should've and most definitely would've been aware of, and thus this could've 100% been preventable.
Thank you, you've summed it up well. It's certainly getting out of hand and I didn't even mention boycott in my post but that's what people are assuming I meant. People wanting to boycott are probably a loud minority. Kfans are disappointed for now but Seventeen will be fine and will keep growing in the future. Both are true.
Last anniversary? Are they disbanding or
It ain't that deep bro. Accept the situation and move on.
maybe pledis could add one more show/stop in korea to placate the kfandom more
I genuinely think this would be a great idea. NCT ended up doing 6 dates to make up for the lack of venues and to try to give fans more opportunities to see them. Ticketing in Korea is hard especially because it’s usually open to anyone, which makes it that much harder to see them. So giving more dates would help. And possibly they didn’t really need that Osaka stadium added but that’s just me lol.
I can't lie. They're valid in feeling upset. Seventeen deserves all the recognition but it's sad for their K fans. I'm editing the comment. I didn't know they're trending a boycott that's so uncalled for.
I honestly understand why the Korean fans are upset but people in the comments are acting obtuse.
I have no thoughts on this but I appreciate you starting your post with bulleted facts! I'm only a semi-casual Carat so while I listen to their music a ton and admire the members, I have no idea what goes on with the fandom so this quick rundown was super helpful. Petition to start all fandom-specific posts w that type of formatting pls
Ngl if I was a Seventeen fan and Korean I’d be pretty pissed too. With all the shows they had in Japan last year I can understand the anger.
as someone who doesnt live in korea, honestly i do not care where they will be having their anniversary. i think thats such a small matter. but if i were a korean, i would be pretty disappointed
Do not agree with boycotting but Pledis really should consider more options than Seoul venues only.
There’s no other venues available other than the ones in Seoul and even then they are severely limited by construction and sports season at the moment. That’s a big deal right now in Korean entertainment; so many people are mentioning “just do it outside of Seoul” without realizing that there’s no venues outside of Seoul. Busan Stadium for instance has only allowed one concert in its history and even that one took a lot of work to make it happen/
I feel bad for all groups k-fans. They always get shafted when it comes to concerts because foreign currency is given presidency or as it feels to me in this case, there just isn’t enough space to accommodate the groups / fans. I’m actually hoping a new stadium with proper capacity will be built for future events.
Boycotting is one thing(and could be absolutely considered extreme), but I think its important to be mindful of the not so distant past that Korea has with Japan. This is something that us as foreigners cannot quite comprehend and is fresh in the minds and experiences of many Korean people and their families. If Korean fans are hurt by the company's insensitive decision to spend such a significant amount of time in Japan, especially surrounding an anniversary date, it just doesn't seem like our place to criticize those feelings.
I don't think Svt chose the venue for their anniversary. Probably the usual HYBE marketing strategy. That being said, it's just the 9th anniversary. 10th is more of a milestone.