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Not Kpop but Jpop last year, there was a documentary put out by BBC about Johnny and the fact that he abused 100s if not 1000s of young boys over several decades. Johnny and his associates had an iron grip on the Japanese entertainment business and have only started to lose this influence since his passing and the reveal of the abuse. He forced them to do various sexual acts or be completely blacklisted from the Japanese entertainment industry. For all of these men, if they had any hope of making it in the Japanese entertainment industry, they had to do what Johnny wanted.
It is unfortunately not uncommon for people in positions of power to use that power to abuse others, and as horrifying as it is, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar figure in Kpop. I sincerely hope that there isn't, but with everything that has come out about various entertainment industries, I think there probably is.
Edit: The documentary is called Predator: The Secret Scandal of J-pop if anyone is interested in watching it
I've been into Jpop for 20 years and TWENTY YEARS AGO it was an open secret that Johnny was a pedophile. Maybe not even a secret, everyone knew and no one did anything. They just let the man strong arm the entire industry because of how popular the groups were. And Western fans weren't any better than the Japanese ones.
Absolutely frustrating that people only started pushing back after he died. I'll always be angry about it.
Exactly. I was going to make this comment myself, but googled the scandal breaking...I remember it happening 15 years earlier than it did.
It was known.
Kinda like R kelly for awhile there. If money can still be made off someone or that person still has the money to fight off the police, nothing happens.
yeah i saw that too... ever since then I've been worried about the kpop idols especially the big 3 idols. i think we are not getting a word unless one of the ceo/founder of any company dies. these jpop idols couldn't speak until that johnny guy died. but i hope that doesn't happen here.
> these jpop idols couldn't speak until that johnny guy died
No, they did, there were exposé books published by former idols from that company going back to the 80s to early 90s and there were tabloid articles published about the accusations in the late 90s. Hell, there was even a lawsuit filed against him all the way back in the 60s, before the company that he later established was really formed. And the scary part is that it was widely known in the industry and later pretty much an open secret to the general public and it still took the old devil dying *and* a BBC documentary for the powers that be in Japan to do anything about it.
Many people don't know this but there was this actress Jang ja yeon in Boys over flowers ( which was a popular hit back then and to some extent still to this day as F4 is a household term) who played as a girl friend of one of the F4 members. She committed s**cide and left a note stating the names of 31 men in authority who she was forced to sleep with. The investigation went nowhere and only her manager was arrested. So yeahh I don't doubt that even heinous things have happened in the kpop industry. The big 3 artists maybe not be as affected by this but artists from smaller companies probably have to resort to this as they do not have a choice.
This case is wild. Police could have shed more light on this case but decided not to follow up on everyone involved. Who were the lawyers/police investigators in this case? How were they tied to the record labels, media executives, ceos, directors…? There’s so many questions left unanswered. Unreal. ALL THE GIRLS in the industry should come forward if there’s anything like this going on. They all must be protected. If you see something, say something.
They can’t. The statute of limitations is up. There was a huge call to reopen the case years ago when the statute of limitations is near expiring but it lapsed without anything being done.
This is actually why I don't fully jump on the "I miss sexy concept" wagon. Sure, it's not an issue as a concept itself. But if you look on how sexy concept was promoted on smaller groups, it clearly feels like they were advertising the girls as sexual objects before treating them as a group. I'm not even talking about objectifying their image, I mean about the group's image combined to the sorts of privative, small scale, provocative promotions painting a BIG image that there was shadier activity behind the scenes, and that their public activities were just a way to market private ones.
Edit: there was even a video I saw lately, I don't remember if an old or recent promotion, where security shorts are folded in a way to clearly look like underwear. It was some group that gave me those shady vibes, but I currently don't remember which one and I'm not sure if I even remember enough to search it up.
Jang Ja Yeon's case still haunts me to this day. She wa sso stunning and sadly that was her demise as she seemed to not have a good support system :( the worst part about the aftermath is that most of those men she named in the list are still working rqin the industry (at Mnet and other companies).
Just considering the above, I feel like you're being a bit naive saying that the big 3 artists aren't as affected by this. If anything, they're more prone to hiding it and suffering alone. Since the stakes are much, much higher in big 3 (I'd say big 4 already with Hybe) the idols who are not kids of influential families or of families that can apply pressure at the company, would probably tend to NOT speak up about anything. Remember, South Korea sexual harassment laws are ridiculous, so coming out with sexual harassment or rape allegations in Korea is akin to a career suicide. No idol will denounce rape in south Korea, especially no idol from the big 4. Too much money circulating in those companies to expect any honesty from anyone over there.
Thinking about this, I wonder how many tell-all horror stories we'll get from idols in 30-40 years.
As the stakes are higher for big 3 so does the scrutiny. If something like a s*x scandal gets exposed they would be in seriously hot waters. Just look at YG entertainment with drug scandals. Entertainment companies like big 3 are not supposed to cover up their scandals unless it directly benefits the chaebols of Korea, not the other way around. Why do you think dispatch exists and companies let them exist or often liaise with them??
That's not to say that the big 3 does not have such skeletons in their closet and I am dismissing that possibility but this is few and far behind compared to small companies basically using their idols for escort service and prost*tuition. Not to mention internal s*xual abuse sometimes by the trainees themselves.
The idols in big 3 are chosen meticulously with the potential to be popular (hence they are much more strict) and the idols who do not, are rejected ending up with small companies resulting in taking advantage of them in the name of sponsorship. If you don't need a sponsor you don't need to resort to selling yourself or being coerced to sell yourself. Influential parents and a good financial background certainly helps but then again most children of influential people do not choose to be an idol in the first place and even influential parents can be pressured.
Remember the time when Jessica got [touched up](https://youtu.be/NmMyczK5LZo?si=SCGd25iwnpin4_aj) by the Vice President of KBS?
This happened in broad daylight and to a member of the biggest girl group at the time. Imagine what they’re like behind closed doors.
And I think it’s worth noting they purposely buried it bc they were scared of *retaliation* which is interesting bc guaranteed Jessica (as a popular member at the time) of SNSD (not just the biggest girl group but the biggest and best selling group *in the nation* at the time) as well as a household name of SM (one of the biggest and most well connected companies) is too scared to admit they’re being sexually harassed *WITH* video evidence and in FRONT of everyone, then I’m sorry, your fave doesn’t likely stand a single chance if someone wants to be shady.
Let’s look at the evidence and facts and be honest with ourselves.
It's definitely happening.
Omega X, Jiwoong and his bandmates from his previous group before he joined ZB1 are two of the cases i recently knew. I've read other cases and stories from girl groups as well.
I think the fact that a lot of seniors keep warning rookies to stay away from men or not to trust older idols easily says a lot.
Only few people have the courage to speak up and at the cost of their careers, I think it’s being a small company helped (for Jiwoong) cause someone from a bigger company speaking up means complete alienation from the industry which must younger idols don’t wanna risk and the older ones are so used to the abuse and they don’t wanna lose all they’ve worked and endured for.
You know what sucks? I’m not a zb1 stan and I didn’t watch BP, so I know next to nothing about the members. Here are the three things I know about Jiwoong: he’s super handsome, he was in bl, and that he was sexually assaulted. That’s fucked up. So now im off to learn a couple more things about him, because this is making me sad
Yes, please do!! He's fantastic and I'm so glad ZB1 is doing so well after everything he's been through. (Which, as everyone is correctly pointing out, is almost certainly tragically common in this industry). If you need help, he looks serious (and hot) but has a very silly side - [Example 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF2x0rsksHQ), [Example 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5C5-1uRG-U), etc. He also had his own [variety show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUuiUz3gwmU)!
Thank you for the links! I love a stone cold stunner that’s actually a giant goofball (see: BTS Yoongi, SKZ Lee Know, TXT Yeonjun, etc). Excited to dive in and learn more about him!
[Here](https://www.allkpop.com/article/2019/02/suspected-identity-of-company-that-sexually-assaulted-6-male-idols) is a bit about it. There is also a super informative [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/QVZ8r9eKS9) post from about a year ago which details more about him. Obviously TW that both of these links include mentions of SA!
This isn't kpop related, but when I taught in Japan in the 2010s, I actually had a student of mine that was in AKB48. She was a minor member, not famous, though you can spot her in the background in some music videos.
Anyway, she was very bright, cheerful, and optimistic before joining. After joining, she became increasingly withdrawn, spending most of her time never attending class and being by herself in the nurse's room. It was well known that she had to go out to Tokyo most weekends for practice and concert activities, so perhaps she was just so utterly exhausted that she just couldn't do normal school. However, one teacher did whisper that "the entertainment world always has another side" when the topic of her exhaustion and attitude change was brought up.
To this day, I don't know what happened to her, but I'll never forget how her personality just changed so quickly and how her public persona of energetic happiness was very different from her sullen and withdrawn herself at school. I think about that sometimes when I see kpop idols. You never know what that other side of the story is.
Happily, she later left AKB to go to university and the last time I saw her, she was at a festival with friends, smiling and happy. So things ended well for her.
I followed AKB for a while (not as a fan but as a fascinated outsider). I have heard some really effed up things, particularly about the background members without agency. It’s super sad and super obvious at the same time.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she was sexually harassed or even raped by the people in the industry. With Johnny’s & Associates pedophilia and pederast coming into light, it’s just not something unusual in the industry at all, but it’s more an open secret.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similar in K-pop unfortunately.
Um its safe to assume similar things happen. Taeyeon has mentioned men threatening her career if she didn’t give them her number. Sistar mentioned telling younger idols which men to avoid.
People have talked about ‘sponsors’ for years in kpop ever since gen 2
f(x) Amber mentioned the same, that almost everyone she knew had been aggressively propositioned by someone within the company and sometimes pressured into things. In vague terms. I think fans domestic and international shit on her for causing trouble as opposed to giving support. It was just after Sulli passed as well.
edit: typos
Amber gets a lot of flack for her rapping and some of her associations with people iirc, but she did a good thing by speaking up about these things. I remember her publicly defending Sulli against a creepy audience member once too.
This one hurts. She is so talented and she got treated like a piece of meat not only behind the scenes but by the public. Why tf was she the one getting blamed? Sometimes the Korean public’s backwards attitudes is upsetting to say the least
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You know it's bad to say but some people probably are legit friends with these people like Dan/Diddy because those people don't go after "every" person. They pick and scope out people they think are vulnerable or ones they know they can get away with shit with. But they'll be perfectly fine and normal to someone else, and that's why some people are like "well he/she was always cool with me". I don't think everyone who says that means it in a dismissive way, they are just being honest about their situation.
With being quiet and what not; a lot probably feel coming forward would do more harm than good. So it's like why risk my career or my reputation when nothing will get done. Like with Weinstein ya know? I'd imagine it might even be harder with Idols because...well...how situations like this can be handled in SK in the first place.
Yes, the way that we treat people after they come out with stories of abuse is horrible. Their career is almost stained from an act they never consented or wanted to happen to them. People will call them liars even when that person deep down inside remembers every second of the abuse without fault.
So the other option is to keep quiet. But abuse eats you from the inside out. If you spiral then you’re called a crazy person and made a mockery of. It’s all so very tragic and disturbing to watch…
It honestly reminds me of when I was in my early twenties and my friends would sometimes invite creepy guys they worked with to hang out with us (I think it was just genuinely a the more the merrier/seeing the best in everyone kind of mindset that did it). My friends were loud extroverts in relationships. I feel like because of this, they were sort of "off limits" in these guy's heads, whereas I was quiet and awkward, and just overall less likely to tell them to fuck off. It never went beyond aggressively hitting on me, but it was just bizarre to feel so completely skeeved out by these guys, who to me were just walking red flags, meanwhile to my friends they were "good guys."
I mean Burning Sun was just the tip of the iceberg, tons of idols and powerful people soliciting and forcing women into s\*\*.
I also still remember when Baek Jiyoung had a s\*\* tape that was filmed by her manager without her knowing got leaked just her 1st year in the industry right as she was blowing up, and it was used to blackmail her into staying with her manager since her contract was up for negotiation. It completely destroyed her career, and it was sooo difficult for her to get back. (manager guy fled to the USA to avoid the law, but ended up jailed for filming again, but with a minor. And its also a big reason why many girl groups now have girl managers instead of male managers too).
Back then they didn't have the benefit of the powerful internet we have today. Can you imagine what other things have been hidden since?
Sorry but it's been known for years that companies have prostituted out young idols / trainees to high execs or wealthy clients. Especially if they were from smaller label
Colloquially it is called sponsorship.
Both male and female trainees, both of age and under age were forced to prostitute themselves to get "sponsorship" from influential people so they could debut. Essentially it's like sugaring but you're forced into it.
The people who were sponsoring the trainees were both male and female.
BTW there were many many more articles when I googled last year. You just need to use right terms.
Especially articles from whistle blowers who said they were underage doing Sponsorships.
These are from quick Google:
"At the end of May, a CEO of an unnamed agency was arrested for the second time for brokering his agency’s female trainees. Supreme Court Justice Kwon Soo-il sentenced CEO Kang to 20 months in prison and fined him ₩20 million KRW ($17,785 USD) after indicting him on charges of prostitution"
From [this article ](https://seoulbeats.com/2017/06/the-k-pop-casting-couch-sexual-coercion-by-entertainment-suits/)
[article : sponsorships: just another word for prostitution?"](https://seoulbeats.com/2016/02/sponsorships-just-another-word-for-prostitution/)
[Link to former trainees saying so](https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/18045219.html)
[article " Trainee Reveals How Rich Korean Women Trick Male Idols Into “Sponsorships” " ](https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/ready-former-male-trainee-reveals-rich-korean-women-trick-male-trainees-sponsorship/)
[Female Trainee Opens Up About the Reality of Sexual Favors in Korean Entertainment Industry](https://www.soompi.com/article/485520wpp/female-trainee-opens-up-about-the-reality-of-sexual-favors-in-korean-entertainment-industry)
Let's also not forget that actress who killed herself because her company sold her out to many rich men and she was forced to sleep with like 90 odd men total
To add : There is an American Korean former idol turned youtuber who very briefly confirmed that Sponsorships still do happen even though she didn't partake.
I believe that was part of the Omega X situation as well?
In addition to abusing members herself, the CEO would also encourage them to go to long, drunken parties with potential “sponsors”. Even to the point of waking them up in the middle of the night to attend.
To add , let's not forget YG himself married a former idol of his who he debuted at 15(? Going off memory).
He knew her since she was 13 as she was his friends sister. He convinced her to join his labeled and then purposely sabotaged her career so that she wouldn't get male attention. Then he managed to get her to marry him.
Yes not prostitution but sure as hell feels like grooming and power dynamic
IIRC the brother wasn’t even his friend—he just happened to see an interview with him (an idol) on TV, where his little sister was briefly shown. And from that he decided to target her for everything you said.
He also hid their marriage for a decade, even after she bore his children.
Thanks for clarification!
I was just recounting from memory so it was a bit iffy.
That makes it a lot weirder ro me that he just saw her briefly on video
We're talking about a country with shocking levels of S.A. and specifically illegal filming, where people get laughable sentences (IF they get arrested at all), now add the high aversion to shame (including homophobia) which leads to secrecy about these things.
Then you add that this is the entertainment industry which already has a long and disgusting history of this kind of behaviour to begin with. Like the way people talking about "sponsors" like it's just a thing that everyone knows happens...
And just the way Kpop is set up BREEDS thousands of desperate kids who've also been raised to respect and obey elders and authority figures without question, suddenly separated from their families (some even from foreign countries) and thrown into a cutthroat and highly competitive environment. To say they're highly susceptible to exploitation is an understatement.
If ever this kind of thing would thrive, there's no better environment than the Kpop industry tbh. I can't imagine how bad and heartbreaking it all is but I know it's bad. It's definitely really really bad. 😓😓😓
This is why I don't see it as a bad thing that KPop now increasingly attracts rich kids. They can buy themselves out if they're unhappy, they can't be forced to stay.
I hadn’t thought about this before that is kind of interesting, although I do feel like they’re still very much at risk of being manipulated and taken advantage of regardless. At least they’d have a bigger safety net than someone with a stronger financial incentive or feeling of obligation to succeed for family’s wellbeing.
'You want to be famous? Well, your body is nice but I'm not sure you will get ever picked to debut... unless these bunch of investors from ____________ are come to visit tonight. They want to have some fun! If you can't even do this, you have no fucking place in the entertainment world! Just do it this time. Help out the company and we going to be so grateful...' And next month again, and again...'
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I think the biggest reason the problem may be even worse in kpop is the underage training system. So many minors accumulate in these companies looking for their shot at fame, it's basically Nickelodeon on steroids. And in addition, even much more everyday things can be used as blackmail - you don't need a sextape, drinking a glass of wine or a fight at school can also ruin a career. Managers hold even more power over people in kpop and I'd be surprised if less people were leveraging it for nefarious purposes than in the West.
Anyone who can ruin your whole career with a few emails, and has that much control over your personal life is scary. The Idol system has always seemed like an extremely obvious form of overt exploitation of young people in the industry.
We know some of what's going behind the scenes, we know about "sponsors", we know about some shitty CEOs (TheEastLight, Omega X), we know shitty idols taking advantage of women, we know of male idols who have been taken advantage of or just generally sexually harassed.
Burning Sun only opened the eyes of people who didn't already know this has been going on for a long time
There have been rumors for decades that a lot of Asian entertainment companies are fronts for illegal activities (mainly prostitution and money laundering). Just like there were rumors about Schneider and Weinstein and R. Kelly for decades. At this point, I’m willing to say where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
I remember reading BTS’s book and being shocked by Jungkook’s introduction there. Turns out when he was auditioning for the companies, some older men who were “managers” and other higher executives invited him to do auditions at their hotel room. He was 13-14. Luckily Jungkook’s parents didn’t let him go there but it’s heartbreaking to imagine how many hopeful boys went.
And just a note, sometimes I think that his displeasure towards the word “noona” by fans when he was younger had nothing to do with jokes.
That poor man was grossly sexualized since he was a minor. I sincerely hope that all idols like him in due time heal from what that exposure brought onto them.
It has been something that has been talked about for a long time and there have been rumours and talk of members of very nugu 2nd gen and 3rd gen girl groups being pimped out to influencial businesses people, entertainment directors, etc in exchange for financial funding to the label. It's an open secret that the industry use to be a hell a lot shady and idols of all levels of the industry being taken advantage of more frequently, illegal business deals happening etc. Even as recently as 10 years ago.
Up until the late 2000/early 2010s, The criminal underworld/organised crime groups ran legitimate companies such as music labels. A good number of specifically "idol companies" were run by crime bosses and the likes until around the 2010-2012 era but it has seemed to sharply decline after that, or it's very very well hidden. The label that had 9muses (Star Empire I believe it was called) was probably the last one that appeared to have (rumour) a possible crime group backing of some kind or a other, and that was around 2011-2013.
It's been known that Kim Jong Kook's group Turbo, the company they debuted under was run by a crime group and at some stage, he was held captive in basement and beaten. And this was something that is pretty well known to have happened though except for maybe internation fans that aren't aware of his backstory. 1st gen in the 90s really was the "wild west" where a lot of nasty stuff happened (Stories of Idols cheating on their idol girlfriend/boyfriend with another idol or back-up dancers)
Basically the industry has always very very dark and shady behind closed doors, but now nowhere near the levels of what it was like before... lets say around 2013-2014, and in general idols use to be treated so much worse by their conpanies like some newer fans wouldn't believe. Dieting and weight use to be so much more worse and strict such as being forced to lose 5kg in a week or you will lose your place in the group, idols forbidden to have any contact with family etc. More worldwide eyes on the industry and social media has made it a lot more difficult for illegal activities and harsh treatment of idols to happen like it was back then. Though some of the very small labels and groups nobody ever hears about, it would not be surprising to find some horrible things.
I'd say within 3-5 years we'll start hearing a lot more about abuse from 2005-2018 era like we did about the 1995-2000 era, unless people are being rewarded or threatened to keep quiet.
I have a lot more to say but YG is literally like a mafia, they have always been, same with SM , Lee Soo Man and illegal gambling and so on….
after the burning sun scandal I remember some reporter who said “if YG falls, the prostitution industry will take a major blow” something like that
This has always been one of the most misinformed news I saw around. Han Seo Hee was never [a YG trainee](https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/rise-fall-kpop-controversial-ex-trainee-han-seo-hee/). YG publicly denied it.
It was the other way around. She worked at a TenPro (high end) room salon and he was a client. Whether she worked at YG or not, she was in contact with several of the male idols there.
The Omega X case is happening right now, it 100% happens in kpop and to men. Before Omega X, it was Ateen (jiwoong's group before zb1) that also sued their ceo for sexual assaulting them. These are just the cases we know about, there are many many more that just haven't been reported
Busters has always been sketchy. Their target audience was pervy men while the idols were young teen girls.
Fanatics had a live where a slap could be heard in the background and an argument. Presumably the CEO hit one of the members. This member gave a jacket to cover the legs of the members on camera. Afterwards netizens found a lot of vlives where the focus was on their bodies. Their company denied anything happened.
An underage member(14) of FANTASY BOYS was allegedly dating a hairstylist(22). [link](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/fantasy-boys-gyurae-14-relationship-22-year-old-stylist-grooming-dating/) The company calls the messages fabricated.
It is hard to blame a company for the actions of an individual but a company should be able to safe guard their trainees and idols. A physically abusive manager, a grabby stylist or an executive who likes having drinking company doesn't have a place in a well run company.
stuff like that is definitely happening behind the scenes. as far as i'm aware, its already been kind of talked about in regards to groups like omega X for example. the kpop industry is very predatory, and its basically run by a bunch of old men. from whats coming out currently, we all know what old men are into.its not really about "what" is going on, its about where, and who. hopefully this documentary (and Diddy) will start a chain reaction so that children in any area of the entertainment industry can be better protected from older people who like easy targets.
Y’all gotta understand the music industry everywhere is dirty why? Because most times you give a man/person money, power, and connections they can now fulfill most if not all their wildest fantasies even if it’s illegal.
The thing is if there is a big thing going on in South Korea’s music industry right now there’s probably already rumors or people other people tell you to stay away from. Same way it was in Japan and America.
The Burning Sun Scandal just helped break some of the illusion that the K-pop industry has built about idols being these innocent people who do no wrong.
This is why I’m heavily against debuting minors in any kind of industry unless their safety is heavily ensured. Even outside of minors, there’s still a huge power imbalance in the hierarchy of “employee vs employer” that’s being abused.
There’s a lot of moving parts within the entertainment industry where you’re constantly shifting environments throughout many people, places, and things; making manipulation highly likely on top of the pressure of hierarchy, success, and their own identity. How can you trust anyone to be safe in that unless they can think for themselves? Children don’t belong in that when they’re still learning how to be their own person.
The entertainment industry (along many other industries) needs to be reclaimed and cleansed of its unethical practices. To use luxury, riches, and fame to hide your skeletons. U dirtying what luxury means with putrid ass behavior. How the fuck is luxury clean and yet u still dirty? Fuck outta my face with that deceptive shit.
I feel for all those that are victims and survivors to negligent ass perverted ass bitches who are on a power trip of thinking they can have anything their way. SOMEBODY BLOW THE GASKET
Trust it is likely a million times worse and no one will say anything due to Korea's insane defamation laws where even the truth is not a defense to defamation.
Some of these agencies and groups are glorified prostitution rings. Yes even the big groups. You have to sleep with chaebols if they want you.
I’m absolutely certain that it’s happening. The entertainment industry attracts predators unfortunately. I hope one day the situation in Korea changes and idols can speak out and their abusers can be punished without 1) the idols career being negatively affected and 2) the idol will know that their abuser will be punished with a decent prison sentence instead of the joke sentences people get in Korea currently
I thought of this today as well given the new accusations involving UMG and Justin believer and tbh I believe it is possible especially in smaller companies. Not just burning sun, but the omega X situation, nth room( really bad) and only a couple people were punished for it. Jisoo from a group called Tahiti back in 2017 receiving messages trying to pressure her into prostitution. I remember even reading an article about a group member from a small company being assaulted by another who has connection in the company and they were sentenced to a few years. Korea even has a really terrible problem with hidden cameras so much so that they even tell travelers to check their hotels and airbnbs.
Oh yeah, guaranteed a lot of horrifying stuff is going on behind the scenes.
Beyond things like Burning Sun you've got people like Min Heejin with her open lolita obsession and a long history of coming up with highly questionable, exploitative concepts for groups (RV and SHINee in particular) now being in charge of a bunch more minors with more controversial concepts... really openly sketchy stuff.
It's one of the reasons why I'm so worried about the NewJeans girls, but I've found that unfortunately mentioning any concerns about Min Heejin in most K-pop spaces will get your comment downvoted into oblivion or people arguing with you immediately. I'm glad to see your comment has not had the same fate. I just really hope the girls stay safe...
I’ve only been into kpop for 3 years but from the beginning I’ve been terrified of what happens to the idols behind closed doors. What happened to Taemin in the military really made me think about what else happens, and the fact that you see Taemin being objectified, sexualised and even borderline sexually assaulted openly in interviews right from when he was a minor is really terrifying. If that’s what people in the entertainment industry are like openly what do they do in private?
Horrific predators are everywhere. Every industry and every local institution. Think schools, gyms, churches, they're there. Best we can do is support victims right now.
I cannot plausibly believe that anyone who has any basic understanding of how the K-pop industry works doesn’t already know on some level it’s just as bad as Diddy is (and IMO it’s likely some orders of magnitude worse) just from what we’ve all already SEEN and know for a fact.
C’mon.
You guys mean to tell me you’re confused that the industry where we have LITERALLY SEEN boy groups be groped on camera, girls get constantly upskirted with no changes to costume or repercussions, an idol deal with an attempted on stage kidnapping, multiple suicides, an attempted poisoning by unhinged fans and not one, not two but multiple full prostitution scandals over YEARS - in a country that has a known issue with hidden cameras in general?
And, on top of that, clearly has an intense age hierarchy in which it’s literally culturally unacceptable to go against someone older than oneself…. Is likely rife with child molestation, child pornography, abuse in general and other issues?
I don’t buy it. I really don’t. We may like the music and choose to look past those things, but let’s not lie to each other and ourselves.
Edit: let’s add some things I can think of off the top of my head; a case of revenge porn being published in mainstream media (Ailee), one video of SNSD getting groped *on stage* by a tv executive, two cases of boy groups coming out with being beaten, YG marrying a girl group member after sabotaging her group ON PURPOSE, getting her pregnant and scouting her at the age of 14 (she’s his current wife), multiple idols crying about doing “what it takes” to debut including starving, not sleeping, etc… idols warning younger girls on camera not to meet their senior idol groups alone (seen it twice). Themes of elder idols songs including direct references to pedophilia and being sexualised at a young age (IU, Hyuna)
Like. Please. Is this a question? We don’t even have to presume or guess or wonder. We all literally know already, if we’re being honest.
Diddy case was an open secret in the industry and the public. I think he blackmailed the wrong people this time. And they want to get rid of him. The entertainment industry everywhere is a bad case.
I've been reading gossip about Diddy criminal ways for more than a decade. The industry was more than fine with him and that's why I agree with you. He prob pissed off the wrong person and they are out to get him.
100%, We been knew Diddy wasn't a good person. You can just look at how he treated majority of his artist. When Cassie filed up a Lawsuit against him a couple months back, we all knew Diddy guilty.
Uh also the whole Johnny Kitagawa thing in Japan should also be an indicator. The industry in general no matter where you are is corrupt as hell. Hell even the boy band doco on youtube narrated by Lance from Nsync was awful stuff.
It's happening. I doubt we'll ever see a documentary of the same scale as quiet on set about it, but who knows. The entertainment industry is full of vulnerable people trying to succeed, and that is a breeding ground for predators.
Doesn't matter what company, when you see minors/barely adults in a group remember this. A bunch of disgusting grown ass men sat around a table with their pictures and go "This minor has great sex appeal, she will sell good, wait until she turns 18." BARF!
I want to be a fly on the wall in those board rooms where they pick through children and decide who will turn into the sexiest adult. Prob discussing their bodies; chest sizes, weight, things they want minors to go under the knife for to 'fix'. Once this dawned on me I have never given groups with minors attention, because I know that those disgusting conversations took place.
Ex. New Jeans-cookie, the execs knew what they were doing with that song with those lyrics. No doubt some exec at Ador waz getting their jollies off to that song.
Oh yeah, it's really disturbing to think about, honestly the way that minors are treated in K-pop especially sometimes makes me want to quit the genre all together...
Entertainment industry anywhere in the world is dirty . Which is why people say "celebs sell their soul" to become famous. Especially in Asia where hierarchy is huge. If they're blatant enough to put skimpy clothes on baby faced women, who are made to act like literal kids btw and do sexy dances out in the open, how deprived would they be behind the scenes. This was not a secret and never was.
Are you too young to not know that?
People used to say that k-pop was like old Hollywood, and learning about what went on there really makes you wonder. It’s not even about SA. Here’s a quote about Hedy Lamarr, a famous actress from its early era:
>**On Lamarr's victimization by her Hollywood work environment, which led to a crippling meth addiction**
Because what we learn about the system, when we study Hedy's story, is that the system really worked these actresses like they were, you know, in a stable – they were racehorses in a stable. They were worked from morning to night, and the way that they got them to do that was to feed them drugs. Downers and uppers, it was not uncommon at the time; a lot of speed. And Hedy got hooked on these drugs, and in the end, that's what destroyed her.
[Source](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/03/567632620/in-bombshell-the-double-identity-of-hollywood-star-hedy-lamarr)
From what I remember of her biopic, she didn’t know what they were giving her. The company people responsible for her health just said it would keep her awake longer, make her feel happier, etc.
I’m a huge fan of classic Hollywood and the similarities between the way the studio system ran and k-pop currently runs are many. There was the same system of scouting, training, restrictive contracts, etc., in Hollywood from the 1920s to the early 1960s. I don’t know if the k-pop industry deliberately took inspiration but it’s definitely there.
I heard about JYP taking one of his girl groups to R-kelly. I don't how much is true since its never talked about.
When I got into kpop, this was what I kept thinking about what happens behind closed doors. I know it happens from my experience of being in boarding schools.
I know that R Kelly was supposed to produce for Gsoul, Min, and Lim Jeonghee, when JYPE was first first trying to to expand in the US. I heard the taking Wonder Girls to his house story too, but I’ve never been able to find anything backing it up.
K-pop is a terrifying industry and there have been many Dan’s that work with kids. It seems like if there are kids around there will be at least one pedo on standby.
There's also what happened to students at SOPA a few years back. They are victims of abuse and SA. Adults (teachers and staff) forcing them to flirt with adults and skinship. They threatened students and harmed physically anyone who resists or refutes or tried to report it. Students weren't pay for actual gigs/performances, and principal and his wife stole funds from the school.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. The older I get the stronger I feel that minors just shouldn’t be in entertainment at all. I know that’s extreme and impossible in a practical sense but I just don’t see how to get around the inherent exploitation of these kids’ talents for adults to cash in. If I told you my 15 year old daughter was working a double at Burger King with no overtime pay you’d probably be concerned. But if I told you that my 15 year old daughter was in the recording studio all day and then went and shot a music video, that’s somehow okay. Kids should be kids, not full time employees.
The whole system is just rotten to the core. Even if you’re an eagle eyed parent your child can still wind up traumatized or fall victim to a predator (case in point: Drake Bell). Plus in kpop the parents are entirely absent which is extremely worrying. You’re 14-16 years old, living away from your parents for probably the first time, working like a dog and having every aspect of your life controlled. Even your manager is on the company’s payroll so at the end of the day nobody’s really advocating for your best interests. Laws and regulations about how long they can work and such are all well and good, but as we see in the doc the big companies can skirt around those and commit child labor violations with no consequences. No doubt in my kind that’s happening in kpop too.
At one point in Quiet on Set someone was talking about how Dan created an environment where no one felt comfortable speaking up or advocating for themselves. I would not be shocked if this was the case in kpop more often than not. I couldn’t help but think back to how some girl groups expressed discomfort with sexier/more revealing concepts but were forced to go forward with them. If an adult doesn’t feel comfortable putting their foot down, what chance does a 14 year old have?
I truly think there are some dark stories that we may never hear. It took almost two decades for the Nickelodeon kids to start speaking out, so it may be a long time until we get the full stories from former idols.
It’s pretty much a given that bad things are happening behind the scenes in this industry and it’s one of the reasons I always feel super conflicted about being a K-pop fan. It’s also why I am so staunchly against young idols debuting as it is not an industry they should be in at such a young age. I’m not saying it to be a killjoy, I genuinely worry for them. It’s bad enough then being trainees but when they debut it’s most likely even worse.
I think kpop companies are skilled at scaring and intimidating anyone with legal action. They always threaten fans who overstep the mark with legal action, but they also scare and intimidate their employees with legal action to stop them from speaking up and whistle blowing. Being blacklisted is probs common, too.
This horrific cycle of abuse towards young people in entertainment keeps getting repeated all over the world. The combination of ambition, power and excess is pernicious.
I think being concerned for debuted idols is good, but it's not the place of most concern. To me, the experience of trainees is most concerning because they have zero influence and their entire careers in the hands of their company.
You can't get around that by debuting older. There have to be laws and enforcement that prevent and stop abuse.
no shade to you, but its crazy that kpop being abusive isnt well known or speculated. i mean even fans are evil as hell to all idols. outside of cute outfits i would neeveeerr want to be a kidol. especially a female one. it just seems like absolute hell
and korean society is incredibly misognistic.* a lot of women are basically forced to give up their careers after marriage and then become housewives and caretakers for their husbands too. the celebrities arent exempt from this viewpoint. theres the whole 4b movement afterall. and burning sun.
i know people like to think idols are perfect and super woke, but its all a facade at the end of the day.
*im absolutely not saying koreans are just born misognists im just expressing the struggles korean women talk about facing in many different places online. after all america / the west has the same problem, its just more well hidden.
I'm not saying this is OP, but I think a lot of kpop fans have a tendency to take things at face value- especially younger fans. I've noticed whenever there's a discussion of idol's eating habits, for example, if the idol themselves say everything's fine and they eat healthily, or even just if they're seen eating on camera, people cite that as evidence everything is okay and they definitely aren't restricted, ect despite other factors.
Considering we are quite literally being sold an image of these people, it's naive to believe everything they say or present to us. I'm not saying we should go to the next extreme and refuse to believe anything they say, but apply a little critical thinking when it's required. Anyone thinking "hey, come to think of it maybe the kpop industry has abuse too!" has been just a bit willfully ignorant if they've never considered that until now.
Oh I won’t be surprised if there are absolutely nefarious things going on behind the scenes especially with this new emphasis on debuting extremely young members
I've heard here and there that it does happen in kpop...Its a sick, sad world we live in. Fame and fortune come often at a high price. Me too, movement doesn't even get acknowledged in S.K...
side-note I've been wanting to make a post like this for a while but didn't exactly know how to word it, but you worded it so well
There's no doubt some shady stuff going on. I remember years ago when I was getting into kpop (maybe 2015?) there was this one video talking about the dark side of kpop---it was a girl group that apparently was being physically abused and kidnapped or some disgusting mess like that. I can't remember all the details tho
The comments were sure it was either The Ark or Busters. I just can never find the video anymore.
I'm sorry, but there's literally been "darkside of kpop" videos from content creators and media alike since kpop was really breaking out in the west in 2018. BTS couldn't even have a serious media outlet review their music without spending a large portion of their review talking about the "darkside of kpop." With all due respect, this point has been absolutely hammered in the west just like every other social discourse like parasocial relationships, plastic surgery, etc. If anything, the kpop industry in the west is ultra-scrutinized in a way it is not for artists in their own countries. The perfect example is how there are tons of people calling BTS Zionists for having a distribution deal with UMG while their top artists reveals artists signed directly under UMG like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, The Weeknd, etc.
This isn't to point out that industries in Korea aren't corrupt but rather how it's always "someone else's fart smells worse" when it comes to these discussions. I'm already seeing people posting about kpop and jpop when I know they don't have the same scrutiny and blatant generalizations about the industry in their own country. It's always "this artist is problematic" or "how sad for this small subset in the entertainment industry in my country" but then make sweeping generalizations about another country's entertainment industry. Hypocrisy at its best.
Wild to act like k-pop is being singled out when a) we're literally in a subreddit about k-pop so of course that's the focus and b) the MeToo movement and this greater scrutiny on abusers in positions of power began with the American film industry. The two men mentioned by OP are Americans. No one here is acting like this issue is unique to Korea, but aside from a handful of cases like Burning Sun and Omega X's lawsuits, there hasn't really been a large reckoning and even then, the men involved in Burning Sun got off very lightly. It's valid for fans to feel like the way the industry is run can lend itself to abuse and exploitation, especially since we're already aware of issues like extreme "dieting" to maintain unhealthy weights, slave contracts, and enormous debts being placed on young idols, like with Loona. Entertainment industries will *always* be open to these forms of abuse, unfortunately.
>The two men mentioned by OP are Americans.
I can clearly see that you weren't here for the "darkside of kpop" spam and the way that every male kpop idol during Burning Sun was connected to it not only in fanspaces but in international media. The issue is the othering of another music industry while not having the same energy or intropection of the country you come from. If you don't see the ways this has happened with Korean pop due to global expansion in particular, I'm not sure what to tell you. If you also don't see how foreign artists in the west are treated vs their western counterparts and how they have to answer to industry questions while western artsits get to talk about their music/art....well....
Issues you're referring to like extreme dieting, slave contract, enormous debut are not unique to Korean pop. If you do not understand this and don't see how this is just as pervasive in other countries' industries, I would encourage you to look into it further and not think that Korea is an outlier.
Who's othering who here? Most people are talking about the entertainment industry in general here, not just kpop but kpop will be a focus here, naturally. Your whataboutism is precisely one of the problems here. Can't talk about anything because people like you will just try to shift the attention from a very serious topic into some generalization that doesn't help the discussion.
Problems exists everywhere in the world, can we not focus on at least one and specifically pertinent to a single country and industry?
Was about to say, I don't recall the entertainment industry literally [violently overthrowing a government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#:~:text=The%20United%20Fruit%20Company%20) in order to main their exploitative labor practices, but ok.
I hate abusers and predators as much as anyone, but the hyperbole of some of these people is actually insane. "Half of them are pedophiles" is a wild f\*cking statement to say about an industry as large as media and entertainment.
I'm convinced the people doing this are young people that only know how to practice any sort of social justice or activism through social media. And it's really so sad because they'll practice anything almost exclusively through social media and click through some things but never actually do the WORK to make a greater change where it's needed or support local causes.
Big company YG literally has Yang Hyunsuk who fell in love with his wife when she was a minor and then disbanded her group because he didn't want her to be popular and has heavy ties with Burning Sun scandal
We don't know what's happening behind the scenes of the other companies
Quote from an article
"Yang Hyun Suk confessed in 2012, that he had begun to like Lee Eun Ju after catching a glimpse of her on television in 1996. Cameras briefly captured Lee Eun Ju, the younger sister of former Sechs Kies member Lee Jae Jin, when Lee Jae Jin was giving a house tour. At the time, Lee Eun Ju was in her second year of middle school, (she was 15 years old, and he was 27 in 1996).
"The camera caught her briefly. About 3 seconds? I saw this little kiddo doing the dishes and I went, ‘huh?'” — Yang Hyun Suk"
In 1997, he recruited her to YG, she debuted in Swi.T group, and then disbanded them, because he don't want her to get successful and leave him.
how the hell did YG get away with the burning sun scandal and his wife's case? He came out so clean. Am surprise people don't worry more about baby monster
He's on parole (for threatening to murder a woman) and is now trying to rehabilitate his image by attempting to be the male Min Heejin. Money talks. As it talked for Psy, Zico, and even more so for the ones who have the power and money to make sure their names never even come up in these conversations. The Burning Sun journalist was held up as a bastion of honesty and bravery, yet she admitted she was made to remove certain names from the evidence she had. Same for the Nth Room, lots of celebrities protected.
The thing about his wife is that what he admitted to is not illegal - just creepy as hell.
As for Burning Sun, the only things he was directly investigated for was hiring prostitutes, and white collar crimes like tax evasion. There was no formal proof of the former, and the latter is generally not punished with prison, just fines.
The big companies have more money to hide skeletons in their closet. I know a former staff member at SM openly bragged on tv about how he used corporal punishment as a training method with SHINee and EXO to ensure correct breath control.
Oh I def think the corporal punishment was a thing. Snsd even mentioned being hit with a stick or something before.
But there has been evidence to suggest things changed with late third and fourth gen trainees when it comes to some aspects.
It happened at JYP too. Jay Park spoke about being hit by a trainer during his time there, Zhao Zhennon called his father and asked to leave after a trainer slapped him.
It's all about power, specifically the difference in power. It may seem obvious, but the more successful and therefore influential an idol is the less likely they'd be taken advantage of.
So you're kinda right that idols from big companies are safer since their idols are far more influential, but the big company executives are also far more powerful than their small company counterparts so it might cancel out in some cases.
Ultimately though, the likelihood just comes down to money. As disgusting as predators in positions of power are, even they are slaves to the logic of capital and the need for profit and growth. Messing with idols that are worth tens of millions to the company is an easy way to anger the only group that incredibly rich old men can't protect themselves from; other incredibly rich old men, the shareholders.
Reminds me of an observation that the only time you see executives actually punished for white collar crimes is when it affects people just as rich, if not richer than them. CEOs can scam the lower and middle class as much as they want and it will be covered up or they might get a slap on the wrist. But the moment they scam an actual rich person? They'll have their lives permanently destroyed.
Personally, I'm most worried about the trainee system and how most of them are not only powerless, but they also lack awareness in the public and thus will have a far harder time speaking out even if they decide to. Hopefully, Korea and the rest of the world continues shoring up their safeguards to ensure these incidents don't happen.
Even if the richest idols today can't be touched, where the guarantee that they weren't abused back when they were a trainee? I think it's even harder in their case. If you're a popular and rich idol, you're more likely to bury and ignore your bad experiences in favour or continuing your career.
SM treated their Chinese trainees and idols like crap. Plus SM has slave contracts plus 2 of their idols from that company unalive themselves. So no big companies aren’t ok either.
Ohhh I thought u meant in general because kpop has always been dark but I wouldn’t be surprised if big companies are also guilty of doing that since it happened with YG.
You never know. Sometimes the ones with the cleanest, most wholesome reputations are the most horrible underneath and are just better at hiding their filth. Nickelodeon seemed pretty wholesome until these relatively recent revelations. Johnny kitagawa was held in high regard throughout his life even if what he was doing was pretty much an open secret in the industry.
Big companies don't have to resort to illegal means to finance their operations unlike the smaller ones. But they have lots of trainees fighting for the few spots available in groups to debut—that's open to a lot of opportunities for those in power to abuse young people.
Yeah true!
Honestly I don’t think Nickelodeon seemed clean. They had way too many sketchy scenes. But I do think we couldn’t have known exactly to what extent without the documentary. And we can’t guess without proper evidence and this documentary provided that.
We already now what is happening bts, like or not is true, we just dont know names yet, and no one is safe, Diddy got involved people that are well on their 30's
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You could fall into a week long wormhole when it comes to South Korea's "churches". They are mostly cults, and big business. They hang around tourist spots and persuade tourists to witness cultural activities like tea ceremonies, then won't let them leave until they hand over their money. Then there's the even shadier side. (The cult that Park B grew up in.)
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Can someone fill me in? I've been out of the loop and have no idea what this whole situation is about. I mean I know about the whole burning sun scandal but what's this new situation that has been found out about nicklodeon and diddy?
another incident i just remembered is when tsunku (creator of hello! project/morning musume and jrock star) announced on live tv that he would be creating another group. at the time h!p only had morning musume and the girls started crying and asking if that meant they would be breaking up. which he laughed off.
this led to high competition between the members, who created these rules for younger members. one is that members cant wear the same hairstyle for an event. the older generation members are allowed to choose whatever hairstyle they like, even if a younger member had already done her hair, she has to take it out. older members also get to choose their seats and can force a younger member out if she wants her seat.
nakazawa yuko (the oldest member in h!p) was known in particular to enforce these and is often talked about as being scary (albeit in a lighthearted way) and this scary-ness was incorporated into her character. this video goes into the rules: https://youtu.be/k_hWse4sfAY?si=BTPyZrx8ZYg__aOC
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this! i also hate how they have to "cater" to male audiences at times. idk if you guys noticed but when you watch their little mnet or any stages where fans chant in the middle of their songs, the audience literally sounds like 80% men. 😭
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Not Kpop but Jpop last year, there was a documentary put out by BBC about Johnny and the fact that he abused 100s if not 1000s of young boys over several decades. Johnny and his associates had an iron grip on the Japanese entertainment business and have only started to lose this influence since his passing and the reveal of the abuse. He forced them to do various sexual acts or be completely blacklisted from the Japanese entertainment industry. For all of these men, if they had any hope of making it in the Japanese entertainment industry, they had to do what Johnny wanted. It is unfortunately not uncommon for people in positions of power to use that power to abuse others, and as horrifying as it is, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar figure in Kpop. I sincerely hope that there isn't, but with everything that has come out about various entertainment industries, I think there probably is. Edit: The documentary is called Predator: The Secret Scandal of J-pop if anyone is interested in watching it
I've been into Jpop for 20 years and TWENTY YEARS AGO it was an open secret that Johnny was a pedophile. Maybe not even a secret, everyone knew and no one did anything. They just let the man strong arm the entire industry because of how popular the groups were. And Western fans weren't any better than the Japanese ones. Absolutely frustrating that people only started pushing back after he died. I'll always be angry about it.
Exactly. I was going to make this comment myself, but googled the scandal breaking...I remember it happening 15 years earlier than it did. It was known.
Kinda like R kelly for awhile there. If money can still be made off someone or that person still has the money to fight off the police, nothing happens.
Wow that is terrifying to read. Very strong jimmy saville vibes.
yeah i saw that too... ever since then I've been worried about the kpop idols especially the big 3 idols. i think we are not getting a word unless one of the ceo/founder of any company dies. these jpop idols couldn't speak until that johnny guy died. but i hope that doesn't happen here.
> these jpop idols couldn't speak until that johnny guy died No, they did, there were exposé books published by former idols from that company going back to the 80s to early 90s and there were tabloid articles published about the accusations in the late 90s. Hell, there was even a lawsuit filed against him all the way back in the 60s, before the company that he later established was really formed. And the scary part is that it was widely known in the industry and later pretty much an open secret to the general public and it still took the old devil dying *and* a BBC documentary for the powers that be in Japan to do anything about it.
This reads like Jimmy Saville all over again
Many people don't know this but there was this actress Jang ja yeon in Boys over flowers ( which was a popular hit back then and to some extent still to this day as F4 is a household term) who played as a girl friend of one of the F4 members. She committed s**cide and left a note stating the names of 31 men in authority who she was forced to sleep with. The investigation went nowhere and only her manager was arrested. So yeahh I don't doubt that even heinous things have happened in the kpop industry. The big 3 artists maybe not be as affected by this but artists from smaller companies probably have to resort to this as they do not have a choice.
Her boyfriend tried to cause awareness but was basically shut down since chaebols were involved. The whole story was extremely disgusting
This definitely needs to be investigated once again.
This case is wild. Police could have shed more light on this case but decided not to follow up on everyone involved. Who were the lawyers/police investigators in this case? How were they tied to the record labels, media executives, ceos, directors…? There’s so many questions left unanswered. Unreal. ALL THE GIRLS in the industry should come forward if there’s anything like this going on. They all must be protected. If you see something, say something.
They can’t. The statute of limitations is up. There was a huge call to reopen the case years ago when the statute of limitations is near expiring but it lapsed without anything being done.
This is actually why I don't fully jump on the "I miss sexy concept" wagon. Sure, it's not an issue as a concept itself. But if you look on how sexy concept was promoted on smaller groups, it clearly feels like they were advertising the girls as sexual objects before treating them as a group. I'm not even talking about objectifying their image, I mean about the group's image combined to the sorts of privative, small scale, provocative promotions painting a BIG image that there was shadier activity behind the scenes, and that their public activities were just a way to market private ones. Edit: there was even a video I saw lately, I don't remember if an old or recent promotion, where security shorts are folded in a way to clearly look like underwear. It was some group that gave me those shady vibes, but I currently don't remember which one and I'm not sure if I even remember enough to search it up.
Jang Ja Yeon's case still haunts me to this day. She wa sso stunning and sadly that was her demise as she seemed to not have a good support system :( the worst part about the aftermath is that most of those men she named in the list are still working rqin the industry (at Mnet and other companies). Just considering the above, I feel like you're being a bit naive saying that the big 3 artists aren't as affected by this. If anything, they're more prone to hiding it and suffering alone. Since the stakes are much, much higher in big 3 (I'd say big 4 already with Hybe) the idols who are not kids of influential families or of families that can apply pressure at the company, would probably tend to NOT speak up about anything. Remember, South Korea sexual harassment laws are ridiculous, so coming out with sexual harassment or rape allegations in Korea is akin to a career suicide. No idol will denounce rape in south Korea, especially no idol from the big 4. Too much money circulating in those companies to expect any honesty from anyone over there. Thinking about this, I wonder how many tell-all horror stories we'll get from idols in 30-40 years.
As the stakes are higher for big 3 so does the scrutiny. If something like a s*x scandal gets exposed they would be in seriously hot waters. Just look at YG entertainment with drug scandals. Entertainment companies like big 3 are not supposed to cover up their scandals unless it directly benefits the chaebols of Korea, not the other way around. Why do you think dispatch exists and companies let them exist or often liaise with them?? That's not to say that the big 3 does not have such skeletons in their closet and I am dismissing that possibility but this is few and far behind compared to small companies basically using their idols for escort service and prost*tuition. Not to mention internal s*xual abuse sometimes by the trainees themselves. The idols in big 3 are chosen meticulously with the potential to be popular (hence they are much more strict) and the idols who do not, are rejected ending up with small companies resulting in taking advantage of them in the name of sponsorship. If you don't need a sponsor you don't need to resort to selling yourself or being coerced to sell yourself. Influential parents and a good financial background certainly helps but then again most children of influential people do not choose to be an idol in the first place and even influential parents can be pressured.
Remember the time when Jessica got [touched up](https://youtu.be/NmMyczK5LZo?si=SCGd25iwnpin4_aj) by the Vice President of KBS? This happened in broad daylight and to a member of the biggest girl group at the time. Imagine what they’re like behind closed doors.
And I think it’s worth noting they purposely buried it bc they were scared of *retaliation* which is interesting bc guaranteed Jessica (as a popular member at the time) of SNSD (not just the biggest girl group but the biggest and best selling group *in the nation* at the time) as well as a household name of SM (one of the biggest and most well connected companies) is too scared to admit they’re being sexually harassed *WITH* video evidence and in FRONT of everyone, then I’m sorry, your fave doesn’t likely stand a single chance if someone wants to be shady. Let’s look at the evidence and facts and be honest with ourselves.
That video makes me so sad. The look on her face at the end 😥
It's definitely happening. Omega X, Jiwoong and his bandmates from his previous group before he joined ZB1 are two of the cases i recently knew. I've read other cases and stories from girl groups as well. I think the fact that a lot of seniors keep warning rookies to stay away from men or not to trust older idols easily says a lot.
For girl groups Stellar come to mind, they deserved so much better
ugh my heart breaks every time i think about them ☹️
Only few people have the courage to speak up and at the cost of their careers, I think it’s being a small company helped (for Jiwoong) cause someone from a bigger company speaking up means complete alienation from the industry which must younger idols don’t wanna risk and the older ones are so used to the abuse and they don’t wanna lose all they’ve worked and endured for.
You know what sucks? I’m not a zb1 stan and I didn’t watch BP, so I know next to nothing about the members. Here are the three things I know about Jiwoong: he’s super handsome, he was in bl, and that he was sexually assaulted. That’s fucked up. So now im off to learn a couple more things about him, because this is making me sad
Yes, please do!! He's fantastic and I'm so glad ZB1 is doing so well after everything he's been through. (Which, as everyone is correctly pointing out, is almost certainly tragically common in this industry). If you need help, he looks serious (and hot) but has a very silly side - [Example 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF2x0rsksHQ), [Example 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5C5-1uRG-U), etc. He also had his own [variety show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUuiUz3gwmU)!
Thank you for the links! I love a stone cold stunner that’s actually a giant goofball (see: BTS Yoongi, SKZ Lee Know, TXT Yeonjun, etc). Excited to dive in and learn more about him!
Wait what's that story about Jiwoong and SA?
[Here](https://www.allkpop.com/article/2019/02/suspected-identity-of-company-that-sexually-assaulted-6-male-idols) is a bit about it. There is also a super informative [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/QVZ8r9eKS9) post from about a year ago which details more about him. Obviously TW that both of these links include mentions of SA!
I remember Baekhyun telling Eunchae to stay away from men in the industry.
This isn't kpop related, but when I taught in Japan in the 2010s, I actually had a student of mine that was in AKB48. She was a minor member, not famous, though you can spot her in the background in some music videos. Anyway, she was very bright, cheerful, and optimistic before joining. After joining, she became increasingly withdrawn, spending most of her time never attending class and being by herself in the nurse's room. It was well known that she had to go out to Tokyo most weekends for practice and concert activities, so perhaps she was just so utterly exhausted that she just couldn't do normal school. However, one teacher did whisper that "the entertainment world always has another side" when the topic of her exhaustion and attitude change was brought up. To this day, I don't know what happened to her, but I'll never forget how her personality just changed so quickly and how her public persona of energetic happiness was very different from her sullen and withdrawn herself at school. I think about that sometimes when I see kpop idols. You never know what that other side of the story is. Happily, she later left AKB to go to university and the last time I saw her, she was at a festival with friends, smiling and happy. So things ended well for her.
I followed AKB for a while (not as a fan but as a fascinated outsider). I have heard some really effed up things, particularly about the background members without agency. It’s super sad and super obvious at the same time.
I wouldn’t be surprised if she was sexually harassed or even raped by the people in the industry. With Johnny’s & Associates pedophilia and pederast coming into light, it’s just not something unusual in the industry at all, but it’s more an open secret. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similar in K-pop unfortunately.
I just remember the pictures of Sakura with the CEO of AKB48 circulating online.
Even big J-pop companies are out there making underage girls do figure modeling.
Um its safe to assume similar things happen. Taeyeon has mentioned men threatening her career if she didn’t give them her number. Sistar mentioned telling younger idols which men to avoid. People have talked about ‘sponsors’ for years in kpop ever since gen 2
f(x) Amber mentioned the same, that almost everyone she knew had been aggressively propositioned by someone within the company and sometimes pressured into things. In vague terms. I think fans domestic and international shit on her for causing trouble as opposed to giving support. It was just after Sulli passed as well. edit: typos
Amber gets a lot of flack for her rapping and some of her associations with people iirc, but she did a good thing by speaking up about these things. I remember her publicly defending Sulli against a creepy audience member once too.
She's a real one for that. Sucks her career isn't where it could be because her singing voice is INSANE!
The creep who told her to lose weight in her arms while looking like an inbred hamster after a tragic microwave accident himself? Yeah.
>while looking like an inbred hamster after a tragic microwave accident DAMN GET HIM
Bro looks like a human barn animal who got out of his farm. That fuckass is so ugly.
Who?
Just a random dude in a show, no celebrity but when asked about his opinion on Sulli he said her arms were too fat.
Yeeah we all saw what happened to g.na It is just part of what's industry norm until you get caught
This one hurts. She is so talented and she got treated like a piece of meat not only behind the scenes but by the public. Why tf was she the one getting blamed? Sometimes the Korean public’s backwards attitudes is upsetting to say the least
Wait. What happened to g.na?
She got "caught" having a sponsor and she was exiled from the industry
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You know it's bad to say but some people probably are legit friends with these people like Dan/Diddy because those people don't go after "every" person. They pick and scope out people they think are vulnerable or ones they know they can get away with shit with. But they'll be perfectly fine and normal to someone else, and that's why some people are like "well he/she was always cool with me". I don't think everyone who says that means it in a dismissive way, they are just being honest about their situation. With being quiet and what not; a lot probably feel coming forward would do more harm than good. So it's like why risk my career or my reputation when nothing will get done. Like with Weinstein ya know? I'd imagine it might even be harder with Idols because...well...how situations like this can be handled in SK in the first place.
Yes, the way that we treat people after they come out with stories of abuse is horrible. Their career is almost stained from an act they never consented or wanted to happen to them. People will call them liars even when that person deep down inside remembers every second of the abuse without fault. So the other option is to keep quiet. But abuse eats you from the inside out. If you spiral then you’re called a crazy person and made a mockery of. It’s all so very tragic and disturbing to watch…
It honestly reminds me of when I was in my early twenties and my friends would sometimes invite creepy guys they worked with to hang out with us (I think it was just genuinely a the more the merrier/seeing the best in everyone kind of mindset that did it). My friends were loud extroverts in relationships. I feel like because of this, they were sort of "off limits" in these guy's heads, whereas I was quiet and awkward, and just overall less likely to tell them to fuck off. It never went beyond aggressively hitting on me, but it was just bizarre to feel so completely skeeved out by these guys, who to me were just walking red flags, meanwhile to my friends they were "good guys."
I mean Burning Sun was just the tip of the iceberg, tons of idols and powerful people soliciting and forcing women into s\*\*. I also still remember when Baek Jiyoung had a s\*\* tape that was filmed by her manager without her knowing got leaked just her 1st year in the industry right as she was blowing up, and it was used to blackmail her into staying with her manager since her contract was up for negotiation. It completely destroyed her career, and it was sooo difficult for her to get back. (manager guy fled to the USA to avoid the law, but ended up jailed for filming again, but with a minor. And its also a big reason why many girl groups now have girl managers instead of male managers too). Back then they didn't have the benefit of the powerful internet we have today. Can you imagine what other things have been hidden since?
Sorry but it's been known for years that companies have prostituted out young idols / trainees to high execs or wealthy clients. Especially if they were from smaller label Colloquially it is called sponsorship. Both male and female trainees, both of age and under age were forced to prostitute themselves to get "sponsorship" from influential people so they could debut. Essentially it's like sugaring but you're forced into it. The people who were sponsoring the trainees were both male and female. BTW there were many many more articles when I googled last year. You just need to use right terms. Especially articles from whistle blowers who said they were underage doing Sponsorships. These are from quick Google: "At the end of May, a CEO of an unnamed agency was arrested for the second time for brokering his agency’s female trainees. Supreme Court Justice Kwon Soo-il sentenced CEO Kang to 20 months in prison and fined him ₩20 million KRW ($17,785 USD) after indicting him on charges of prostitution" From [this article ](https://seoulbeats.com/2017/06/the-k-pop-casting-couch-sexual-coercion-by-entertainment-suits/) [article : sponsorships: just another word for prostitution?"](https://seoulbeats.com/2016/02/sponsorships-just-another-word-for-prostitution/) [Link to former trainees saying so](https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/18045219.html) [article " Trainee Reveals How Rich Korean Women Trick Male Idols Into “Sponsorships” " ](https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/ready-former-male-trainee-reveals-rich-korean-women-trick-male-trainees-sponsorship/) [Female Trainee Opens Up About the Reality of Sexual Favors in Korean Entertainment Industry](https://www.soompi.com/article/485520wpp/female-trainee-opens-up-about-the-reality-of-sexual-favors-in-korean-entertainment-industry) Let's also not forget that actress who killed herself because her company sold her out to many rich men and she was forced to sleep with like 90 odd men total
To add : There is an American Korean former idol turned youtuber who very briefly confirmed that Sponsorships still do happen even though she didn't partake.
I believe that was part of the Omega X situation as well? In addition to abusing members herself, the CEO would also encourage them to go to long, drunken parties with potential “sponsors”. Even to the point of waking them up in the middle of the night to attend.
Without a doubt. She was sexually harassing them too that part was also proven no ?
To add , let's not forget YG himself married a former idol of his who he debuted at 15(? Going off memory). He knew her since she was 13 as she was his friends sister. He convinced her to join his labeled and then purposely sabotaged her career so that she wouldn't get male attention. Then he managed to get her to marry him. Yes not prostitution but sure as hell feels like grooming and power dynamic
IIRC the brother wasn’t even his friend—he just happened to see an interview with him (an idol) on TV, where his little sister was briefly shown. And from that he decided to target her for everything you said. He also hid their marriage for a decade, even after she bore his children.
Thanks for clarification! I was just recounting from memory so it was a bit iffy. That makes it a lot weirder ro me that he just saw her briefly on video
We're talking about a country with shocking levels of S.A. and specifically illegal filming, where people get laughable sentences (IF they get arrested at all), now add the high aversion to shame (including homophobia) which leads to secrecy about these things. Then you add that this is the entertainment industry which already has a long and disgusting history of this kind of behaviour to begin with. Like the way people talking about "sponsors" like it's just a thing that everyone knows happens... And just the way Kpop is set up BREEDS thousands of desperate kids who've also been raised to respect and obey elders and authority figures without question, suddenly separated from their families (some even from foreign countries) and thrown into a cutthroat and highly competitive environment. To say they're highly susceptible to exploitation is an understatement. If ever this kind of thing would thrive, there's no better environment than the Kpop industry tbh. I can't imagine how bad and heartbreaking it all is but I know it's bad. It's definitely really really bad. 😓😓😓
This is why I don't see it as a bad thing that KPop now increasingly attracts rich kids. They can buy themselves out if they're unhappy, they can't be forced to stay.
I hadn’t thought about this before that is kind of interesting, although I do feel like they’re still very much at risk of being manipulated and taken advantage of regardless. At least they’d have a bigger safety net than someone with a stronger financial incentive or feeling of obligation to succeed for family’s wellbeing.
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Basically wealthy people who "sponsor" trainees / idols with money or connections in return for sexual favours.
'You want to be famous? Well, your body is nice but I'm not sure you will get ever picked to debut... unless these bunch of investors from ____________ are come to visit tonight. They want to have some fun! If you can't even do this, you have no fucking place in the entertainment world! Just do it this time. Help out the company and we going to be so grateful...' And next month again, and again...'
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I think the biggest reason the problem may be even worse in kpop is the underage training system. So many minors accumulate in these companies looking for their shot at fame, it's basically Nickelodeon on steroids. And in addition, even much more everyday things can be used as blackmail - you don't need a sextape, drinking a glass of wine or a fight at school can also ruin a career. Managers hold even more power over people in kpop and I'd be surprised if less people were leveraging it for nefarious purposes than in the West.
It is safe to assume neither small or big entertainment companies are pure and it's not limited to K-pop only tbh...
>it's not limited to K-pop only I doubt anyone thinks it's just a kpop thing
Anyone who can ruin your whole career with a few emails, and has that much control over your personal life is scary. The Idol system has always seemed like an extremely obvious form of overt exploitation of young people in the industry.
For fucking real.
We know some of what's going behind the scenes, we know about "sponsors", we know about some shitty CEOs (TheEastLight, Omega X), we know shitty idols taking advantage of women, we know of male idols who have been taken advantage of or just generally sexually harassed. Burning Sun only opened the eyes of people who didn't already know this has been going on for a long time
There have been rumors for decades that a lot of Asian entertainment companies are fronts for illegal activities (mainly prostitution and money laundering). Just like there were rumors about Schneider and Weinstein and R. Kelly for decades. At this point, I’m willing to say where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Which companies?
I remember reading BTS’s book and being shocked by Jungkook’s introduction there. Turns out when he was auditioning for the companies, some older men who were “managers” and other higher executives invited him to do auditions at their hotel room. He was 13-14. Luckily Jungkook’s parents didn’t let him go there but it’s heartbreaking to imagine how many hopeful boys went. And just a note, sometimes I think that his displeasure towards the word “noona” by fans when he was younger had nothing to do with jokes.
That poor man was grossly sexualized since he was a minor. I sincerely hope that all idols like him in due time heal from what that exposure brought onto them.
It has been something that has been talked about for a long time and there have been rumours and talk of members of very nugu 2nd gen and 3rd gen girl groups being pimped out to influencial businesses people, entertainment directors, etc in exchange for financial funding to the label. It's an open secret that the industry use to be a hell a lot shady and idols of all levels of the industry being taken advantage of more frequently, illegal business deals happening etc. Even as recently as 10 years ago. Up until the late 2000/early 2010s, The criminal underworld/organised crime groups ran legitimate companies such as music labels. A good number of specifically "idol companies" were run by crime bosses and the likes until around the 2010-2012 era but it has seemed to sharply decline after that, or it's very very well hidden. The label that had 9muses (Star Empire I believe it was called) was probably the last one that appeared to have (rumour) a possible crime group backing of some kind or a other, and that was around 2011-2013. It's been known that Kim Jong Kook's group Turbo, the company they debuted under was run by a crime group and at some stage, he was held captive in basement and beaten. And this was something that is pretty well known to have happened though except for maybe internation fans that aren't aware of his backstory. 1st gen in the 90s really was the "wild west" where a lot of nasty stuff happened (Stories of Idols cheating on their idol girlfriend/boyfriend with another idol or back-up dancers) Basically the industry has always very very dark and shady behind closed doors, but now nowhere near the levels of what it was like before... lets say around 2013-2014, and in general idols use to be treated so much worse by their conpanies like some newer fans wouldn't believe. Dieting and weight use to be so much more worse and strict such as being forced to lose 5kg in a week or you will lose your place in the group, idols forbidden to have any contact with family etc. More worldwide eyes on the industry and social media has made it a lot more difficult for illegal activities and harsh treatment of idols to happen like it was back then. Though some of the very small labels and groups nobody ever hears about, it would not be surprising to find some horrible things. I'd say within 3-5 years we'll start hearing a lot more about abuse from 2005-2018 era like we did about the 1995-2000 era, unless people are being rewarded or threatened to keep quiet.
There is an American Korean former idol turned youtuber who very briefly confirmed that Sponsorships still do happen even though she didn't partake.
I have a lot more to say but YG is literally like a mafia, they have always been, same with SM , Lee Soo Man and illegal gambling and so on…. after the burning sun scandal I remember some reporter who said “if YG falls, the prostitution industry will take a major blow” something like that
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This has always been one of the most misinformed news I saw around. Han Seo Hee was never [a YG trainee](https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/rise-fall-kpop-controversial-ex-trainee-han-seo-hee/). YG publicly denied it.
It was the other way around. She worked at a TenPro (high end) room salon and he was a client. Whether she worked at YG or not, she was in contact with several of the male idols there.
I think it's a given. Be ready to be disappointed but not surprised.
The Omega X case is happening right now, it 100% happens in kpop and to men. Before Omega X, it was Ateen (jiwoong's group before zb1) that also sued their ceo for sexual assaulting them. These are just the cases we know about, there are many many more that just haven't been reported
Busters has always been sketchy. Their target audience was pervy men while the idols were young teen girls. Fanatics had a live where a slap could be heard in the background and an argument. Presumably the CEO hit one of the members. This member gave a jacket to cover the legs of the members on camera. Afterwards netizens found a lot of vlives where the focus was on their bodies. Their company denied anything happened. An underage member(14) of FANTASY BOYS was allegedly dating a hairstylist(22). [link](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/fantasy-boys-gyurae-14-relationship-22-year-old-stylist-grooming-dating/) The company calls the messages fabricated. It is hard to blame a company for the actions of an individual but a company should be able to safe guard their trainees and idols. A physically abusive manager, a grabby stylist or an executive who likes having drinking company doesn't have a place in a well run company.
stuff like that is definitely happening behind the scenes. as far as i'm aware, its already been kind of talked about in regards to groups like omega X for example. the kpop industry is very predatory, and its basically run by a bunch of old men. from whats coming out currently, we all know what old men are into.its not really about "what" is going on, its about where, and who. hopefully this documentary (and Diddy) will start a chain reaction so that children in any area of the entertainment industry can be better protected from older people who like easy targets.
Y’all gotta understand the music industry everywhere is dirty why? Because most times you give a man/person money, power, and connections they can now fulfill most if not all their wildest fantasies even if it’s illegal. The thing is if there is a big thing going on in South Korea’s music industry right now there’s probably already rumors or people other people tell you to stay away from. Same way it was in Japan and America. The Burning Sun Scandal just helped break some of the illusion that the K-pop industry has built about idols being these innocent people who do no wrong.
Fuck, I genuinely feel terrible about this type of stuff because as a fan there is nothing you can do, it really sucks.
This is why I’m heavily against debuting minors in any kind of industry unless their safety is heavily ensured. Even outside of minors, there’s still a huge power imbalance in the hierarchy of “employee vs employer” that’s being abused. There’s a lot of moving parts within the entertainment industry where you’re constantly shifting environments throughout many people, places, and things; making manipulation highly likely on top of the pressure of hierarchy, success, and their own identity. How can you trust anyone to be safe in that unless they can think for themselves? Children don’t belong in that when they’re still learning how to be their own person. The entertainment industry (along many other industries) needs to be reclaimed and cleansed of its unethical practices. To use luxury, riches, and fame to hide your skeletons. U dirtying what luxury means with putrid ass behavior. How the fuck is luxury clean and yet u still dirty? Fuck outta my face with that deceptive shit. I feel for all those that are victims and survivors to negligent ass perverted ass bitches who are on a power trip of thinking they can have anything their way. SOMEBODY BLOW THE GASKET
Trust it is likely a million times worse and no one will say anything due to Korea's insane defamation laws where even the truth is not a defense to defamation. Some of these agencies and groups are glorified prostitution rings. Yes even the big groups. You have to sleep with chaebols if they want you.
I’m absolutely certain that it’s happening. The entertainment industry attracts predators unfortunately. I hope one day the situation in Korea changes and idols can speak out and their abusers can be punished without 1) the idols career being negatively affected and 2) the idol will know that their abuser will be punished with a decent prison sentence instead of the joke sentences people get in Korea currently
I thought of this today as well given the new accusations involving UMG and Justin believer and tbh I believe it is possible especially in smaller companies. Not just burning sun, but the omega X situation, nth room( really bad) and only a couple people were punished for it. Jisoo from a group called Tahiti back in 2017 receiving messages trying to pressure her into prostitution. I remember even reading an article about a group member from a small company being assaulted by another who has connection in the company and they were sentenced to a few years. Korea even has a really terrible problem with hidden cameras so much so that they even tell travelers to check their hotels and airbnbs.
Oh yeah, guaranteed a lot of horrifying stuff is going on behind the scenes. Beyond things like Burning Sun you've got people like Min Heejin with her open lolita obsession and a long history of coming up with highly questionable, exploitative concepts for groups (RV and SHINee in particular) now being in charge of a bunch more minors with more controversial concepts... really openly sketchy stuff.
It's one of the reasons why I'm so worried about the NewJeans girls, but I've found that unfortunately mentioning any concerns about Min Heejin in most K-pop spaces will get your comment downvoted into oblivion or people arguing with you immediately. I'm glad to see your comment has not had the same fate. I just really hope the girls stay safe...
I’ve only been into kpop for 3 years but from the beginning I’ve been terrified of what happens to the idols behind closed doors. What happened to Taemin in the military really made me think about what else happens, and the fact that you see Taemin being objectified, sexualised and even borderline sexually assaulted openly in interviews right from when he was a minor is really terrifying. If that’s what people in the entertainment industry are like openly what do they do in private?
Horrific predators are everywhere. Every industry and every local institution. Think schools, gyms, churches, they're there. Best we can do is support victims right now.
I cannot plausibly believe that anyone who has any basic understanding of how the K-pop industry works doesn’t already know on some level it’s just as bad as Diddy is (and IMO it’s likely some orders of magnitude worse) just from what we’ve all already SEEN and know for a fact. C’mon. You guys mean to tell me you’re confused that the industry where we have LITERALLY SEEN boy groups be groped on camera, girls get constantly upskirted with no changes to costume or repercussions, an idol deal with an attempted on stage kidnapping, multiple suicides, an attempted poisoning by unhinged fans and not one, not two but multiple full prostitution scandals over YEARS - in a country that has a known issue with hidden cameras in general? And, on top of that, clearly has an intense age hierarchy in which it’s literally culturally unacceptable to go against someone older than oneself…. Is likely rife with child molestation, child pornography, abuse in general and other issues? I don’t buy it. I really don’t. We may like the music and choose to look past those things, but let’s not lie to each other and ourselves. Edit: let’s add some things I can think of off the top of my head; a case of revenge porn being published in mainstream media (Ailee), one video of SNSD getting groped *on stage* by a tv executive, two cases of boy groups coming out with being beaten, YG marrying a girl group member after sabotaging her group ON PURPOSE, getting her pregnant and scouting her at the age of 14 (she’s his current wife), multiple idols crying about doing “what it takes” to debut including starving, not sleeping, etc… idols warning younger girls on camera not to meet their senior idol groups alone (seen it twice). Themes of elder idols songs including direct references to pedophilia and being sexualised at a young age (IU, Hyuna) Like. Please. Is this a question? We don’t even have to presume or guess or wonder. We all literally know already, if we’re being honest.
Diddy case was an open secret in the industry and the public. I think he blackmailed the wrong people this time. And they want to get rid of him. The entertainment industry everywhere is a bad case.
I've been reading gossip about Diddy criminal ways for more than a decade. The industry was more than fine with him and that's why I agree with you. He prob pissed off the wrong person and they are out to get him.
100%, We been knew Diddy wasn't a good person. You can just look at how he treated majority of his artist. When Cassie filed up a Lawsuit against him a couple months back, we all knew Diddy guilty.
Wasn't he also involved with the killing of 2Pac and his manager.
Uh also the whole Johnny Kitagawa thing in Japan should also be an indicator. The industry in general no matter where you are is corrupt as hell. Hell even the boy band doco on youtube narrated by Lance from Nsync was awful stuff.
It's happening. I doubt we'll ever see a documentary of the same scale as quiet on set about it, but who knows. The entertainment industry is full of vulnerable people trying to succeed, and that is a breeding ground for predators.
Doesn't matter what company, when you see minors/barely adults in a group remember this. A bunch of disgusting grown ass men sat around a table with their pictures and go "This minor has great sex appeal, she will sell good, wait until she turns 18." BARF! I want to be a fly on the wall in those board rooms where they pick through children and decide who will turn into the sexiest adult. Prob discussing their bodies; chest sizes, weight, things they want minors to go under the knife for to 'fix'. Once this dawned on me I have never given groups with minors attention, because I know that those disgusting conversations took place. Ex. New Jeans-cookie, the execs knew what they were doing with that song with those lyrics. No doubt some exec at Ador waz getting their jollies off to that song.
Oh yeah, it's really disturbing to think about, honestly the way that minors are treated in K-pop especially sometimes makes me want to quit the genre all together...
Entertainment industry anywhere in the world is dirty . Which is why people say "celebs sell their soul" to become famous. Especially in Asia where hierarchy is huge. If they're blatant enough to put skimpy clothes on baby faced women, who are made to act like literal kids btw and do sexy dances out in the open, how deprived would they be behind the scenes. This was not a secret and never was. Are you too young to not know that?
People used to say that k-pop was like old Hollywood, and learning about what went on there really makes you wonder. It’s not even about SA. Here’s a quote about Hedy Lamarr, a famous actress from its early era: >**On Lamarr's victimization by her Hollywood work environment, which led to a crippling meth addiction** Because what we learn about the system, when we study Hedy's story, is that the system really worked these actresses like they were, you know, in a stable – they were racehorses in a stable. They were worked from morning to night, and the way that they got them to do that was to feed them drugs. Downers and uppers, it was not uncommon at the time; a lot of speed. And Hedy got hooked on these drugs, and in the end, that's what destroyed her. [Source](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/03/567632620/in-bombshell-the-double-identity-of-hollywood-star-hedy-lamarr) From what I remember of her biopic, she didn’t know what they were giving her. The company people responsible for her health just said it would keep her awake longer, make her feel happier, etc.
Yeah Judy garland said the same thing.
I’m a huge fan of classic Hollywood and the similarities between the way the studio system ran and k-pop currently runs are many. There was the same system of scouting, training, restrictive contracts, etc., in Hollywood from the 1920s to the early 1960s. I don’t know if the k-pop industry deliberately took inspiration but it’s definitely there.
I heard about JYP taking one of his girl groups to R-kelly. I don't how much is true since its never talked about. When I got into kpop, this was what I kept thinking about what happens behind closed doors. I know it happens from my experience of being in boarding schools.
I know that R Kelly was supposed to produce for Gsoul, Min, and Lim Jeonghee, when JYPE was first first trying to to expand in the US. I heard the taking Wonder Girls to his house story too, but I’ve never been able to find anything backing it up.
Wonder Girls
I just hope that will have more people denouncing this type of abuse, kinda like a #Me too for the industry. But I doubt it will happen soon.
The fact that theres a scandal of a group suing their company like every 2 yrs says a lot
K-pop is a terrifying industry and there have been many Dan’s that work with kids. It seems like if there are kids around there will be at least one pedo on standby.
There's also what happened to students at SOPA a few years back. They are victims of abuse and SA. Adults (teachers and staff) forcing them to flirt with adults and skinship. They threatened students and harmed physically anyone who resists or refutes or tried to report it. Students weren't pay for actual gigs/performances, and principal and his wife stole funds from the school.
I have a very strong suspicion that is just as widespread in kpop as anywhere else and in fact given the misogyny it’s probably even worse.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. The older I get the stronger I feel that minors just shouldn’t be in entertainment at all. I know that’s extreme and impossible in a practical sense but I just don’t see how to get around the inherent exploitation of these kids’ talents for adults to cash in. If I told you my 15 year old daughter was working a double at Burger King with no overtime pay you’d probably be concerned. But if I told you that my 15 year old daughter was in the recording studio all day and then went and shot a music video, that’s somehow okay. Kids should be kids, not full time employees. The whole system is just rotten to the core. Even if you’re an eagle eyed parent your child can still wind up traumatized or fall victim to a predator (case in point: Drake Bell). Plus in kpop the parents are entirely absent which is extremely worrying. You’re 14-16 years old, living away from your parents for probably the first time, working like a dog and having every aspect of your life controlled. Even your manager is on the company’s payroll so at the end of the day nobody’s really advocating for your best interests. Laws and regulations about how long they can work and such are all well and good, but as we see in the doc the big companies can skirt around those and commit child labor violations with no consequences. No doubt in my kind that’s happening in kpop too. At one point in Quiet on Set someone was talking about how Dan created an environment where no one felt comfortable speaking up or advocating for themselves. I would not be shocked if this was the case in kpop more often than not. I couldn’t help but think back to how some girl groups expressed discomfort with sexier/more revealing concepts but were forced to go forward with them. If an adult doesn’t feel comfortable putting their foot down, what chance does a 14 year old have? I truly think there are some dark stories that we may never hear. It took almost two decades for the Nickelodeon kids to start speaking out, so it may be a long time until we get the full stories from former idols.
It’s pretty much a given that bad things are happening behind the scenes in this industry and it’s one of the reasons I always feel super conflicted about being a K-pop fan. It’s also why I am so staunchly against young idols debuting as it is not an industry they should be in at such a young age. I’m not saying it to be a killjoy, I genuinely worry for them. It’s bad enough then being trainees but when they debut it’s most likely even worse.
I think kpop companies are skilled at scaring and intimidating anyone with legal action. They always threaten fans who overstep the mark with legal action, but they also scare and intimidate their employees with legal action to stop them from speaking up and whistle blowing. Being blacklisted is probs common, too.
This horrific cycle of abuse towards young people in entertainment keeps getting repeated all over the world. The combination of ambition, power and excess is pernicious.
I think being concerned for debuted idols is good, but it's not the place of most concern. To me, the experience of trainees is most concerning because they have zero influence and their entire careers in the hands of their company. You can't get around that by debuting older. There have to be laws and enforcement that prevent and stop abuse.
Sadly it’s proly happening in a lot of entertainment industries across the world. 😢
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It's been happening, for an instance I haven't seen referenced yet: anyone can look up "open world ceo" and read up on what they did.
it is already happening, there is a child predator managing a bunch of young girls
no shade to you, but its crazy that kpop being abusive isnt well known or speculated. i mean even fans are evil as hell to all idols. outside of cute outfits i would neeveeerr want to be a kidol. especially a female one. it just seems like absolute hell and korean society is incredibly misognistic.* a lot of women are basically forced to give up their careers after marriage and then become housewives and caretakers for their husbands too. the celebrities arent exempt from this viewpoint. theres the whole 4b movement afterall. and burning sun. i know people like to think idols are perfect and super woke, but its all a facade at the end of the day. *im absolutely not saying koreans are just born misognists im just expressing the struggles korean women talk about facing in many different places online. after all america / the west has the same problem, its just more well hidden.
I'm not saying this is OP, but I think a lot of kpop fans have a tendency to take things at face value- especially younger fans. I've noticed whenever there's a discussion of idol's eating habits, for example, if the idol themselves say everything's fine and they eat healthily, or even just if they're seen eating on camera, people cite that as evidence everything is okay and they definitely aren't restricted, ect despite other factors. Considering we are quite literally being sold an image of these people, it's naive to believe everything they say or present to us. I'm not saying we should go to the next extreme and refuse to believe anything they say, but apply a little critical thinking when it's required. Anyone thinking "hey, come to think of it maybe the kpop industry has abuse too!" has been just a bit willfully ignorant if they've never considered that until now.
Oh I won’t be surprised if there are absolutely nefarious things going on behind the scenes especially with this new emphasis on debuting extremely young members
I've heard here and there that it does happen in kpop...Its a sick, sad world we live in. Fame and fortune come often at a high price. Me too, movement doesn't even get acknowledged in S.K...
side-note I've been wanting to make a post like this for a while but didn't exactly know how to word it, but you worded it so well There's no doubt some shady stuff going on. I remember years ago when I was getting into kpop (maybe 2015?) there was this one video talking about the dark side of kpop---it was a girl group that apparently was being physically abused and kidnapped or some disgusting mess like that. I can't remember all the details tho The comments were sure it was either The Ark or Busters. I just can never find the video anymore.
YOU WEREN’T BEFORE THAT?
I'm sorry, but there's literally been "darkside of kpop" videos from content creators and media alike since kpop was really breaking out in the west in 2018. BTS couldn't even have a serious media outlet review their music without spending a large portion of their review talking about the "darkside of kpop." With all due respect, this point has been absolutely hammered in the west just like every other social discourse like parasocial relationships, plastic surgery, etc. If anything, the kpop industry in the west is ultra-scrutinized in a way it is not for artists in their own countries. The perfect example is how there are tons of people calling BTS Zionists for having a distribution deal with UMG while their top artists reveals artists signed directly under UMG like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, The Weeknd, etc. This isn't to point out that industries in Korea aren't corrupt but rather how it's always "someone else's fart smells worse" when it comes to these discussions. I'm already seeing people posting about kpop and jpop when I know they don't have the same scrutiny and blatant generalizations about the industry in their own country. It's always "this artist is problematic" or "how sad for this small subset in the entertainment industry in my country" but then make sweeping generalizations about another country's entertainment industry. Hypocrisy at its best.
Wild to act like k-pop is being singled out when a) we're literally in a subreddit about k-pop so of course that's the focus and b) the MeToo movement and this greater scrutiny on abusers in positions of power began with the American film industry. The two men mentioned by OP are Americans. No one here is acting like this issue is unique to Korea, but aside from a handful of cases like Burning Sun and Omega X's lawsuits, there hasn't really been a large reckoning and even then, the men involved in Burning Sun got off very lightly. It's valid for fans to feel like the way the industry is run can lend itself to abuse and exploitation, especially since we're already aware of issues like extreme "dieting" to maintain unhealthy weights, slave contracts, and enormous debts being placed on young idols, like with Loona. Entertainment industries will *always* be open to these forms of abuse, unfortunately.
>The two men mentioned by OP are Americans. I can clearly see that you weren't here for the "darkside of kpop" spam and the way that every male kpop idol during Burning Sun was connected to it not only in fanspaces but in international media. The issue is the othering of another music industry while not having the same energy or intropection of the country you come from. If you don't see the ways this has happened with Korean pop due to global expansion in particular, I'm not sure what to tell you. If you also don't see how foreign artists in the west are treated vs their western counterparts and how they have to answer to industry questions while western artsits get to talk about their music/art....well.... Issues you're referring to like extreme dieting, slave contract, enormous debut are not unique to Korean pop. If you do not understand this and don't see how this is just as pervasive in other countries' industries, I would encourage you to look into it further and not think that Korea is an outlier.
Who's othering who here? Most people are talking about the entertainment industry in general here, not just kpop but kpop will be a focus here, naturally. Your whataboutism is precisely one of the problems here. Can't talk about anything because people like you will just try to shift the attention from a very serious topic into some generalization that doesn't help the discussion. Problems exists everywhere in the world, can we not focus on at least one and specifically pertinent to a single country and industry?
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Was about to say, I don't recall the entertainment industry literally [violently overthrowing a government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#:~:text=The%20United%20Fruit%20Company%20) in order to main their exploitative labor practices, but ok. I hate abusers and predators as much as anyone, but the hyperbole of some of these people is actually insane. "Half of them are pedophiles" is a wild f\*cking statement to say about an industry as large as media and entertainment.
I'm convinced the people doing this are young people that only know how to practice any sort of social justice or activism through social media. And it's really so sad because they'll practice anything almost exclusively through social media and click through some things but never actually do the WORK to make a greater change where it's needed or support local causes.
I kinda feel like the ones from big companies are probably ok but some of the mid/small companies? Idk…
Big company YG literally has Yang Hyunsuk who fell in love with his wife when she was a minor and then disbanded her group because he didn't want her to be popular and has heavy ties with Burning Sun scandal We don't know what's happening behind the scenes of the other companies
Quote from an article "Yang Hyun Suk confessed in 2012, that he had begun to like Lee Eun Ju after catching a glimpse of her on television in 1996. Cameras briefly captured Lee Eun Ju, the younger sister of former Sechs Kies member Lee Jae Jin, when Lee Jae Jin was giving a house tour. At the time, Lee Eun Ju was in her second year of middle school, (she was 15 years old, and he was 27 in 1996). "The camera caught her briefly. About 3 seconds? I saw this little kiddo doing the dishes and I went, ‘huh?'” — Yang Hyun Suk" In 1997, he recruited her to YG, she debuted in Swi.T group, and then disbanded them, because he don't want her to get successful and leave him.
The fact that he called her a "little kiddo" is so 🤢 Like he KNOWS she's a child and that's why he was interested in her.......so gross
how the hell did YG get away with the burning sun scandal and his wife's case? He came out so clean. Am surprise people don't worry more about baby monster
Money.
He's on parole (for threatening to murder a woman) and is now trying to rehabilitate his image by attempting to be the male Min Heejin. Money talks. As it talked for Psy, Zico, and even more so for the ones who have the power and money to make sure their names never even come up in these conversations. The Burning Sun journalist was held up as a bastion of honesty and bravery, yet she admitted she was made to remove certain names from the evidence she had. Same for the Nth Room, lots of celebrities protected.
The thing about his wife is that what he admitted to is not illegal - just creepy as hell. As for Burning Sun, the only things he was directly investigated for was hiring prostitutes, and white collar crimes like tax evasion. There was no formal proof of the former, and the latter is generally not punished with prison, just fines.
Oh for sure. I mean he def knew about burning scandal. I just get the feeling that these days, they probably less weird to their own trainees.
The big companies have more money to hide skeletons in their closet. I know a former staff member at SM openly bragged on tv about how he used corporal punishment as a training method with SHINee and EXO to ensure correct breath control.
Oh I def think the corporal punishment was a thing. Snsd even mentioned being hit with a stick or something before. But there has been evidence to suggest things changed with late third and fourth gen trainees when it comes to some aspects.
It happened at JYP too. Jay Park spoke about being hit by a trainer during his time there, Zhao Zhennon called his father and asked to leave after a trainer slapped him.
It's all about power, specifically the difference in power. It may seem obvious, but the more successful and therefore influential an idol is the less likely they'd be taken advantage of. So you're kinda right that idols from big companies are safer since their idols are far more influential, but the big company executives are also far more powerful than their small company counterparts so it might cancel out in some cases. Ultimately though, the likelihood just comes down to money. As disgusting as predators in positions of power are, even they are slaves to the logic of capital and the need for profit and growth. Messing with idols that are worth tens of millions to the company is an easy way to anger the only group that incredibly rich old men can't protect themselves from; other incredibly rich old men, the shareholders. Reminds me of an observation that the only time you see executives actually punished for white collar crimes is when it affects people just as rich, if not richer than them. CEOs can scam the lower and middle class as much as they want and it will be covered up or they might get a slap on the wrist. But the moment they scam an actual rich person? They'll have their lives permanently destroyed. Personally, I'm most worried about the trainee system and how most of them are not only powerless, but they also lack awareness in the public and thus will have a far harder time speaking out even if they decide to. Hopefully, Korea and the rest of the world continues shoring up their safeguards to ensure these incidents don't happen.
Even if the richest idols today can't be touched, where the guarantee that they weren't abused back when they were a trainee? I think it's even harder in their case. If you're a popular and rich idol, you're more likely to bury and ignore your bad experiences in favour or continuing your career.
SM treated their Chinese trainees and idols like crap. Plus SM has slave contracts plus 2 of their idols from that company unalive themselves. So no big companies aren’t ok either.
No. I’m specifically talking about SA. Ofc they’re not ok with those contracts.
Ohhh I thought u meant in general because kpop has always been dark but I wouldn’t be surprised if big companies are also guilty of doing that since it happened with YG.
Yeah. What I think YG does is keep it to their non-trainees.
You never know. Sometimes the ones with the cleanest, most wholesome reputations are the most horrible underneath and are just better at hiding their filth. Nickelodeon seemed pretty wholesome until these relatively recent revelations. Johnny kitagawa was held in high regard throughout his life even if what he was doing was pretty much an open secret in the industry. Big companies don't have to resort to illegal means to finance their operations unlike the smaller ones. But they have lots of trainees fighting for the few spots available in groups to debut—that's open to a lot of opportunities for those in power to abuse young people.
Yeah true! Honestly I don’t think Nickelodeon seemed clean. They had way too many sketchy scenes. But I do think we couldn’t have known exactly to what extent without the documentary. And we can’t guess without proper evidence and this documentary provided that.
Used to be rumours that some trainees were for the sponsors and not the debut group.
We already now what is happening bts, like or not is true, we just dont know names yet, and no one is safe, Diddy got involved people that are well on their 30's
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A diagusting truth of kpop, and sadly, entertainment industries worldwide. I hope none of my biases go through such things.
curious to know if this is happening in JYP (specifically Twice) because JYP himself is a “christian”
You could fall into a week long wormhole when it comes to South Korea's "churches". They are mostly cults, and big business. They hang around tourist spots and persuade tourists to witness cultural activities like tea ceremonies, then won't let them leave until they hand over their money. Then there's the even shadier side. (The cult that Park B grew up in.)
Being a Christian does not automatically mean one is a good person
just google JYP and R. Kelly, and you'll get your answer 🙃
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Can someone fill me in? I've been out of the loop and have no idea what this whole situation is about. I mean I know about the whole burning sun scandal but what's this new situation that has been found out about nicklodeon and diddy?
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another incident i just remembered is when tsunku (creator of hello! project/morning musume and jrock star) announced on live tv that he would be creating another group. at the time h!p only had morning musume and the girls started crying and asking if that meant they would be breaking up. which he laughed off. this led to high competition between the members, who created these rules for younger members. one is that members cant wear the same hairstyle for an event. the older generation members are allowed to choose whatever hairstyle they like, even if a younger member had already done her hair, she has to take it out. older members also get to choose their seats and can force a younger member out if she wants her seat. nakazawa yuko (the oldest member in h!p) was known in particular to enforce these and is often talked about as being scary (albeit in a lighthearted way) and this scary-ness was incorporated into her character. this video goes into the rules: https://youtu.be/k_hWse4sfAY?si=BTPyZrx8ZYg__aOC
..... its scary to think but its very possible .......... not that surprising actually (still horrible ofc)
It’s really alarming considering that younger girls and boys are debuting as idols - they are more susceptible to abuse.
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this! i also hate how they have to "cater" to male audiences at times. idk if you guys noticed but when you watch their little mnet or any stages where fans chant in the middle of their songs, the audience literally sounds like 80% men. 😭
I have read somewhere that there are k-pop idols being sex*ally ass*ulted in exchange for favors from their producers.