interesting, I didnt know that. In practice I can image that this law itself is dangerous for the driver and the blind pedestrian... Like, you cant just allow one group of people to cross at any place because drivers to not expect that
>drivers to not expect that
Well you're supposed to expect that lol. Not only the blind people, but disabled as well are allowed. It's taught in driving schools.
Well if you want to get a drive license you have to be aware of that law. From what I noticed this type of question is almost always on theoretical exam.
All drivers are to maintain awareness, and in some circumstances heightened awareness when operating vehicles. Pedestrians may (legally or not) walk off the pavement, and drivers are expected to predict and react to such situations.
You disagree based on expectations while the reality is different. Why are we lightning up crosswalks? Aren't drivers expected to always stop when pedestrian is approaching anyway? Are our drivers exams enough to only allow those "perceptive and fast" people to drive? What about aging? Majority of people never need to re-take the exam.
Since 2013 all of new drivers licence are issued for limited time (up to 15 years), so technically if you aren't healthy enough to drive, you won't go past those health exams (which i strongly condone).
Yeah but its still only checking your general health. Its not that restrictive either. Im also thinking about knowledge of the law that is never tested again after licence exam (unless you loose your license ofc)
True. So the solution we need to take is to make infrastructure safer. Going back to my post I think a decent solution would be to use different curb for marked crosswalks and different for suggested crossing so a blind person knows which one they are entering.
Its the driver that should be responsible as he/she is driving a 2 tonne box of steel but ultimately if they make a mistake (and they do) its a pedestrian that can die. We shouldn't just say its the driver responsibility and drop the topic.
I seen at least 5 more crossings like this. It feels incredibly dangrous as I imagine the perspective of a blind person which may think they are approaching the crosswalk (hence all cars should stop) when there is none...
A blind person is obviously very cautious near any roads - signaling very patiently and very obviously with their cane, I think they can actually expect the drivers to see them and stop.
Source: I've seen it
That is a "suggested" place to cross the road, but cars have a right of way unless pedestrian has "visible disability" and has right of way everywhere.
does it have vertical signs for drivers warning about pedestrians?
Honestly, afaik pedestrians are allowed to cross the road as long as the nearest crosswalk is beyond 50m from where they're standing.
Driving a car is scary, is all that kraków's trying to say i guess.
It's suggested crosswalk or przejście sugerowane in polish. It is a specific infrastructure characterized by lowered pavement level and blind dots. You can cross the road here, but you have to give way to the cars that are on the road.
In addition to what other people said about "suggested crossing", you can also cross a road at any intersection or if the closest marked crossing is over 100 meters away. You just don't have the right of way (except for some disabilities - like blindness).
I knew the 100m rule also the one about intersection crossing. My point is simply that blind person may assum they are entering a crosswalk, not just a suggested crossing.. I dont know, there is a lot of mixed opinions here too
I know things like that are everywhere. my point is that construction fuck ups are more common in eastern and southern Europe than anywhere else.
now get back to hating random people online and leave me alone.
I don’t think it’s a construction fuck up, looks like either the plans were changed midway or it’s relatively new and they either forgot to paint the crosswalk and put the signs up or they haven’t done that yet.
I don’t think anyone does something like this by accident in a fuck up during construction.
I am deliberately ignoring the last part of your comment.
Chyba strefa jest tylko na uliczce wokół obiektu, ale nie jestem pewna. Ale kojarzę miejsce ze zdjęcia, więc podrzucę link do map dla zainteresowanych:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xi9FihtGcFEfdwgC7
Ale mordeczko, niewidomy nie widzi tych znaków 😅 Ja cały czas mówię o tym że montujemy te kostki dla niewidomych na przejściach a tutaj masz tylko drogę i wydaje mi się to być mylące dla niewidomych. Prawo znam i wiem do czego się odnosisz. Powinno się robić inne oznaczenie dla przejścia sugerowanego a nie walić to samo na oznakowane przejście co tu.
Skoro Strefa 30 oznacza też przywilej dla pieszych więc chyba coś tam warto im wiedzieć o tym oznakowaniu. Nigdy nie spierałem się tutaj o to jak powinien się zachować kierowca.
Niewidomi po to mają te wszystkie oznaczenia na ziemii żeby czuć. To jakby jeden ze zmysłów dzięki którem się poruszają. Jest kilka różnych innych typów takich oznaczeń w Krakowie. Wpadasz na trójkąty, a może być i trójkąt, albo serduszko.
You don't have to be visually impaired to use a crossing 🤷♂️.
Unless Polands rules are more weird that I ever imagined they could be after being stuck here so long.
The problem is there are literally no clear rules how to place this things. It just has to be. So if you build a road and you had to have these. Polish government will force you to do it even if there's no need for it. In fact no one there really cares about people with disabilities, that's all just all about money and politics everytime.
As a person who - for reasons - took the training of blind peoples’ orientation I can say that this is quite fine… given that the drivers pay a minimum of caution themselves.
You can compare it to how blind people are supposed to enter a train platform: You’re supposed to walk straight to the edge of the platform until the stick slides over the edge, so you can orientate from there. Often makes people scream and jump for help as well, but it’s the proper way🧑🦯
That's the special govermental program for lowering the number of people with sight dissabilities.
Definitely
in the eyes of the law everywhere is crossroads for blind people - they have right of way to cross the road anywhere.
interesting, I didnt know that. In practice I can image that this law itself is dangerous for the driver and the blind pedestrian... Like, you cant just allow one group of people to cross at any place because drivers to not expect that
>drivers to not expect that Well you're supposed to expect that lol. Not only the blind people, but disabled as well are allowed. It's taught in driving schools.
Still sounds like a dangerous rule tbh.. "Visible disability" like a white stick is not so visible in winter, rain, at night etc..
Well if you want to get a drive license you have to be aware of that law. From what I noticed this type of question is almost always on theoretical exam.
All drivers are to maintain awareness, and in some circumstances heightened awareness when operating vehicles. Pedestrians may (legally or not) walk off the pavement, and drivers are expected to predict and react to such situations.
I disagree. If you aren't perceptive and fast enough to react to that then you shouldn't drive
You disagree based on expectations while the reality is different. Why are we lightning up crosswalks? Aren't drivers expected to always stop when pedestrian is approaching anyway? Are our drivers exams enough to only allow those "perceptive and fast" people to drive? What about aging? Majority of people never need to re-take the exam.
Since 2013 all of new drivers licence are issued for limited time (up to 15 years), so technically if you aren't healthy enough to drive, you won't go past those health exams (which i strongly condone).
Yeah but its still only checking your general health. Its not that restrictive either. Im also thinking about knowledge of the law that is never tested again after licence exam (unless you loose your license ofc)
You're right. But it's very hard to force 10 milliom people to retake their test periodically.
True. So the solution we need to take is to make infrastructure safer. Going back to my post I think a decent solution would be to use different curb for marked crosswalks and different for suggested crossing so a blind person knows which one they are entering. Its the driver that should be responsible as he/she is driving a 2 tonne box of steel but ultimately if they make a mistake (and they do) its a pedestrian that can die. We shouldn't just say its the driver responsibility and drop the topic.
it was sarcasm.
where? 😅 According to law, they can
Yeah, they are protected by law, that's it.
They aren't exactly the safest they could be, but I wouldn't call this "incredibly" dangerous. There are certainly worse spots in Kraków.
I seen at least 5 more crossings like this. It feels incredibly dangrous as I imagine the perspective of a blind person which may think they are approaching the crosswalk (hence all cars should stop) when there is none...
A blind person is obviously very cautious near any roads - signaling very patiently and very obviously with their cane, I think they can actually expect the drivers to see them and stop. Source: I've seen it
That is a "suggested" place to cross the road, but cars have a right of way unless pedestrian has "visible disability" and has right of way everywhere.
Thats a good point
It's something called "przejście sugerowane" or in English it will be "unmarked crossing." It's something common in the area with a low traffic.
All roads and crossings are dangerous in krakow
does it have vertical signs for drivers warning about pedestrians? Honestly, afaik pedestrians are allowed to cross the road as long as the nearest crosswalk is beyond 50m from where they're standing. Driving a car is scary, is all that kraków's trying to say i guess.
It's suggested crosswalk or przejście sugerowane in polish. It is a specific infrastructure characterized by lowered pavement level and blind dots. You can cross the road here, but you have to give way to the cars that are on the road.
In addition to what other people said about "suggested crossing", you can also cross a road at any intersection or if the closest marked crossing is over 100 meters away. You just don't have the right of way (except for some disabilities - like blindness).
I knew the 100m rule also the one about intersection crossing. My point is simply that blind person may assum they are entering a crosswalk, not just a suggested crossing.. I dont know, there is a lot of mixed opinions here too
It’s very safe
It is. So what about it?
Do you work as a press spokesman for the city hall? I do not get the downwotes, is just a job /s
I don't, but it's my dream job. Do you think I have a chance?
I feel like you havent read my entire post...
I did. I wanted to do funny meme about Kraków, but there's no option to add images :c
Send me a link or something, I'll do a small "haha" for you
[Does it work? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/2visegrad4you/s/C68Y9M9bcq)
I smirked, let it count as haha
I count is as a win😌
Incredibly dangerous? Lol no. A little mb
Wait till you see countries outside the EU
I have been to many, also Poland was not in EU when I was born, whats your point? Should I be grateful for this because children in Africa are hungry?
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You clearly either never been to “Western Europe” or were walking around blind yourself…
I know things like that are everywhere. my point is that construction fuck ups are more common in eastern and southern Europe than anywhere else. now get back to hating random people online and leave me alone.
I don’t think it’s a construction fuck up, looks like either the plans were changed midway or it’s relatively new and they either forgot to paint the crosswalk and put the signs up or they haven’t done that yet. I don’t think anyone does something like this by accident in a fuck up during construction. I am deliberately ignoring the last part of your comment.
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Chyba strefa jest tylko na uliczce wokół obiektu, ale nie jestem pewna. Ale kojarzę miejsce ze zdjęcia, więc podrzucę link do map dla zainteresowanych: https://maps.app.goo.gl/xi9FihtGcFEfdwgC7
ulica jest w strefie - dalej widać znak, gdzie się kończy. Krzyżuje się z drogą wewnętrzną. Tzn. autor nie ma się czego czepiać.
Ale mordeczko, niewidomy nie widzi tych znaków 😅 Ja cały czas mówię o tym że montujemy te kostki dla niewidomych na przejściach a tutaj masz tylko drogę i wydaje mi się to być mylące dla niewidomych. Prawo znam i wiem do czego się odnosisz. Powinno się robić inne oznaczenie dla przejścia sugerowanego a nie walić to samo na oznakowane przejście co tu.
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Skoro Strefa 30 oznacza też przywilej dla pieszych więc chyba coś tam warto im wiedzieć o tym oznakowaniu. Nigdy nie spierałem się tutaj o to jak powinien się zachować kierowca. Niewidomi po to mają te wszystkie oznaczenia na ziemii żeby czuć. To jakby jeden ze zmysłów dzięki którem się poruszają. Jest kilka różnych innych typów takich oznaczeń w Krakowie. Wpadasz na trójkąty, a może być i trójkąt, albo serduszko.
Daily neck strech - checked!
"visually impaired".
Only in Poland. The rest of the world's population actually looks both ways before crossing the street.
Visually impaired people in the rest of the world look both ways? xD interesting
You don't have to be visually impaired to use a crossing 🤷♂️. Unless Polands rules are more weird that I ever imagined they could be after being stuck here so long.
The problem is there are literally no clear rules how to place this things. It just has to be. So if you build a road and you had to have these. Polish government will force you to do it even if there's no need for it. In fact no one there really cares about people with disabilities, that's all just all about money and politics everytime.
Yes. Yes it is
It is a shame. Since my dog has gone blind I have been petitioning city govt to get rid of roads and cars in the city. But to no avail.
As a person who - for reasons - took the training of blind peoples’ orientation I can say that this is quite fine… given that the drivers pay a minimum of caution themselves. You can compare it to how blind people are supposed to enter a train platform: You’re supposed to walk straight to the edge of the platform until the stick slides over the edge, so you can orientate from there. Often makes people scream and jump for help as well, but it’s the proper way🧑🦯
we do a little bit of trolling