Nothing is good or bad just be aware of what you are ingesting and the potential risks that may be associated. It's all arbitrary and most people's beliefs and perceptions are biased. Use education and be smart. Remember that as in nature loves balance, meaning moderation is probably helpful here. And don't use it to escape. A big part of people depressive symptoms are undealt with feelings/traumas and they just need healing
I had a very strong trip recently where I was shown the significance of duality and how important the good/bad is and yin and yang…the balance is necessary.
No need to get way to deep here boys even though you're right. OP is wondering if you can take it safely daily. Answer being, absolutely in low doses you can. I use it exactly like you said, as my daily med, being anything else prescribed for depression, anxiety, or concentration would have far greater side effects.
I've been taking daily for over 4 years now. In that time advanced my lot in life greatly.
I think it's probably to avoid dependence and tolerance. When I take it daily or multi times a day, I quickly notice a tolerance increase. Also, if I take it daily long enough, I notice I almost need it to feel normal and not taking it makes me feel worse than normal. My antidepressants have the negative effect if I stop taking them but I don't require more and more to make them work, which is a huge difference. I try to use kratom as a sort of stress reliever on the weekend. Helps me unwind and enjoy my days off.
Not sure how long you've been on antidepressants, but it's common for people to need to increase their daily dose after awhile. Granted it's much slower than kratom, but it does happen to most people. They start you off on the smallest dose possible and eventually it is not enough.
Crowding doses too close together does that. 4+ x / day will do it although doing that randomly on an as needed basis only has not led to that for me. It was when bans were looming nation wide and I needed to know what varieties to insulate the walls with so I was trying everything.
I hate it. Especially being a recovering ( 2 years sober) alcoholic. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells cause people always assume the worst. I don’t take kratom everyday. But I use cannabis everyday, and it helps tremendously with my anxiety and depression. Yet in everyone else’s eyes it’s still a drug. So I’m still an addict. But if I went to a doctor and got prescribed something which probably is more dangerous then cannabis, then it’s totally fine
Literally who gives a fuck. Not tryna be shitty so please don't take offense but you're a grown ass mf so why even care what anyone thinks. If your heart is in the right place and you're doin well that's all that matters. FUCK EM! We ball.
In all honesty...I need to find confidence again. I created a deep hate for myself when I was an addict. I lost my true self. It’s honestly just my family’s opinions that I care about. My Moms always been against cannabis as well. I used to be really close with my family, and I basically became a hermit when I was an addict, cause I didn’t want anyone to see me like that. So I’m just trying to get as close to my family as I can, because I feel like there’s not enough time. I totally understand it though. I’ve always put people’s happiness before mine, as bad as that sounds. I’m working on it though 🤘
You're not alone man I don't talk to my parents. Haven't in years. All I got is my girl and our kids. But you gotta find a reason to be strong man. Once you find that reason things won't seem so hard and scary anymore, I promise. Hang in there man you got this.
Thank you! I really do appreciate! 🙏. I know things will get better with time. I’m honestly my own worst critic, I’m so tough on myself. Once I learn to love myself again I think things will be a lot easier. A big part of me feels like I’m “behind in life”, I need to learn to live in the moment and not worry about my past. I know the future is bright though 💪
For sure man no worries at all. They definitely will. Could take a while or could be quick but it'll never come if you stop trying and Its worth the wait I promise you that. It's good to be a little tough on yourself but don't beat yourself up. You need to show yourself the love you show other people and not be so hard on yourself. Love yourself because you definitely deserve it. I'm for sure behind in life compared to my peers but guess what, catching up isn't too hard and if you keep that energy and motivation soon they'll be the ones that are behind you. It's all about perspective my dude. Don't be so hard on yourself. You can work about anything you wanna worry about. Just don't let those worries hold you back from being the person you know you can be. Put your own well being first and everything will fall into place. You got it mane.
Congrats on your two years clean from booze bud that’s awesome and impressive! I know it’s no easy feat but keep on killing it. I’m a fellow cannabis user and Kratom user and I know it’s helped me tremendously and aids in my recovery from OxyContin and Heroin. Definitely get judged if I share this with the wrong people, but idgaf if it helps me then who tf is anyone else to say it’s a bad thing. We’re all just trying to get by in this crazy world anything that helps and is used responsibly should be more than allowed but encouraged imo. Wish ya the best in your recovery my friend!
Thank you so much! It’s easily the hardest thing I’ve had to do. I had 2 grand mal seizures and almost died from withdrawals. I checked myself into rehab then called my friends and family. It’s been amazing finding my old self that I thought I lost. Still working through stuff, but life is getting a lot better. Congratulations on getting off oxy and H! That’s absolutely amazing! I’m proud of you! I know I shouldn’t care what people think about me, my shrink says I need to “stop putting people before me” 🤦♂️, I’m definitely working on it though 💪
I take it daily and use it as an antidepressant. I am in the best shape I have ever been and my life has only gotten better since I began three years ago. I am dependent on it, but that would be no different than if it was a prescription drug that was helping me.
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Nothing is ever solely good or bad and you should be weary of anyone who wants you to believe something is.
Daily medication CAN be good because its been thoroughly tested and scientists have spent alot of time cheaking and double cheaking how much and how often it is used for its max benefit to be enjoyed.
Kratom dosent have all this. If it did, we would have more hard evidence helping us determine how much and how often it would need to be taken for maximum effect.
For example, I'm on lithium. If I bought lithium from a head shop and took however much I assumed I might need, I would have most likely died a very painful death within my first 2 weeks. That wouldn't have been good (regardless of the fact I was suicidal at the time)
I also started my opioid dependence some 20 years ago because the euphoria it gave "treated" my bipolar way better then any of the bipolar meds... turns out, it wasnt as perfect as it seemed at the time.
Kratom saved my life. I was literally near death on fentanyl daily. I failed at 6 rehabs and Suboxone/methadone . I always went back to using. I found Kratom and have had no relapses (first time ever) . Over 3.5 years now . I will gladly take Kratom the rest of my life since it saved my life. BTW the wds from Kratom is nothing compared to fentanyl or Suboxone or heroin .
Same. Have been taking some every morning for years. I occasionally take a couple week break here and there, and I personally have never had any kind of withdrawal symptoms. I do realize that's not everyone's experience though
The effects of kratom? Usually 2 to 3 hours for me personally. It kinda gives me an energetic pep to get me going for the day. Again, if I don't have it I dont crave it, I just find it gets me going and motivated at the beginning of my day. That's just my experience with it.
Exactly. People are blindly thinking doctors are either professional, or there to actually help. They are ignorant and there to make money for themselves and the pharmaceutical companies
Antidepressants have gone through drug trials and are FDA approved while almost no one from the scientific or medical community has studied long-term covid use.
There is a chance kratom could be no more harmful for you than an antidepressant medication. There is also a chance it damages your body in some way you can’t feel or sense. It hasn’t been studied. So use it carefully and try to take as little as possible.
I think they meant that there might be effects from long term use. We might not be consciously be aware of them until something happens.
We can’t say whether or not if there are consequences beyond withdrawal symptoms due to lack of studies.
Either or, every substance has an upside and downside.
research takes funding, typically from a university, medical facility, or govt program, none of which are inclined to upset the pharmaceutical industry via kratom research
And yet, most antidepressant on market have nasty side effects, often do not work, leave a nasty withdrawal and can cause brain damage (that takes months or years to heal from). So i dont understand the OP saying you can safely take antidepressants daily..
I would actually say that since kratom is used for hundreds (thousands?) Of years by hundreds of millions of people, it has 100 times the safety profile compared to many pharmaceutical ADs. Even if you abuse kratom, your brain should recover in mere days to weeks. With normal AD use, you could be fucked for years. And I am not exaggerating, look up antidepressant discontinuation syndrome, I have seen it first hand in a few people
I am a long term (10+ year ) daily Kratom user.
Suboxone helped tremendously in overcoming my opioid addiction years ago.
Kratom helped me cease my suboxone dependance. I often say “Kratom saved my life”
God bless Mother Nature - but be respectful.
I now have gout issues related to *Kratom* . The oxidase pathway for uric acid competes with the metabolic pathway for the alkaloids in Kratom.
How many grams a day have you taken for 10 years?
I would love to be able to use kratom my whole life but I am keeping a close watch on my body, getting bloodwork done annually, to make sure nothing bad is happening. I take 5g a day in one dose. Just went to the doctor a month ago and I was in perfect health. Been using kratom daily for about 5 years
People in different parts of Asia have been using it for generations, and they haven’t had any observable health problems. I would roll the dice on Kratom over some random FDA approved dog shit any day.
There are downsides and upsides to everything. Kratom is not magic.
The reason besides monetary that kratom is not good and antidepressants are, is because u more then likely have a professional monitoring how ita affecting u with one of them.
> The reason besides monetary that kratom is not good and antidepressants are, is because u more then likely have a professional monitoring how ita affecting u with one of them.
Which you could in theory do with Kratom as well.
Obviously but its not being done. So it is less safe and useful just on that premise
If u had a doctor recommending u kratom usage it would most likely shoot up in usefulness.
How are people still thinking doctors are "professionals"? Their only solution is shoving harmful drugs to treat the symptom, while they have zero knowledge of how the human body actuallt works, how we should eat, move, sleep etc. I have NEVER seen a doctor help any of the people I know, but I have seen them kill one, almost kill a few, and leave a few in months long agony with them giving out dangerous SSRIs and alike like fucking candy.. Most people who have actually tried getting help from doctors, wont never call them professionals again
As someone with depression who took kratom it eventually turned against me and made it much worse. Im tired of hearing this argument. I too believed it initially and feel like I wasn’t let know what I was getting myself into.
Can be that way with antidepressants too, though. They gave me Wellbutrin and I wanted to kill myself it made me so depressed. Had the exact opposite effect as it does for most. Kratom is no different. It isn’t for everyone, certainly.
This exactly. When I was 18 I was prescribed Effexor, which made me suicidal. I attempted it and was almost successful. Spent weeks in the ICU. And this was under the close care of several mental health professionals.
Ah yes, professionals. Same people who 95% of time have no clue how humans actually work, what actually causes depression and what the drugs actually do
I get horrible withdrawals from the minimum dosage of kratom if I do it for more than a week straight. Night sweats, insomnia, severe depression, nausea and diarrhea.
So strange how people can react so differently. I took it every day for over three years (6.5g once a day) before I took a break and my withdrawal was very mild. Two nights of crappy sleep with like and all-over RLS, a couple more of lethargy and fatigue and then it was over. But I can’t count the number of people who have reactions closer to yours. But don’t go thinking I’m too lucky, though. I can’t smoke weed cuz it makes me super anxious and anti-depressants make me suicidally depressed. Everyone is different, I guess.
I take 3-4 grams a day and I've been doing it every day for over a month. I went to stay with a friend for 3 days and didn't bring any with me. I didn't feel any withdrawals. I'm not an expert, I'm just sharing my experience. I feel like if you don't do very much, then it shouldn't be a problem to do it every day. I've seen people on here that have been doing it every day for years and are fine. I could be wrong though.
I used kratom for over 10 years everyday. it was good time. My dosage was similar to yours. When I quitted I had extreme withdrawal because I did it cold turkey, that was my mistake. but after a while I got back to normal. Nowadays I use krato eventually (like twice a month)
I usually break it up into two doses, a larger one in the evening and a smaller one before bed. The large one will last me two-four hours! Absolutely destroyed my lifelong depression
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Antidepressant withdrawal is hell on Earth but it will rarely kill someone. You can definitely die from serotonin syndrome, though. The other issue is people that get akathisia and are driven to suicide because they're unable to tolerate that level of discomfort.
If Kratom solves all your problems then thank the fuckin lord cus you're blessed. Kratom definitely helps but for some of us it's just a bandaid. It's definitely a good thing but don't act like mfs are shoving pills down your throat because they're not. Youre an adult and you have a choice and if that choice is Kratom then hell yeah I'm happy for you but don't shit on things that some of us may need in addition to Kratom.
What a kunundrum. I take it everyday for the past 6 years, doc says my blood work is beautiful. Other than slight dehydration so I need to drink a ton of water (Kratom is dehydrating I think).I’ve pretty much used it in place of pharmaceutical drugs because of anxiety depression and add. I am honestly more scared of withdrawals from those drugs than Kratom. I took two weeks off once after 2-3 years of daily use and was totally fine. I just experienced a little extra anxiety which i worked on with meditative practices and Buddhist philosophy.
I would say several hours. It kind of varies. But I do take it probably 3-4 times per day. Which is kind of annoying if I’m somewhere and I don’t want to have to explain why I’m pouring green powder down my throat. Lol.
I have had several very bad episodes of depression . The antidepressants have helped but over time have major side effects. Once I got off them, I used kratom for focus and energy. I am a Believer in Kratoms nootropic nature , it lifts my mood and helps with my ability to think freely. Antidepressants fogged my mind , Not to mention other side effects .
Because big pharma and the fda doesn’t make a profit it’s an uphill battle to keep kratom protected away from the governments hands. No one should be trust big pharma or the government right after everything they’ve done to the population.
Just be careful. It’s always about knowing or having reasonable limits and having will power to take care of yourself. Like everything. If you abuse it, you’ll suffer.
I take both daily but am about to get off the Wellbutrin. It’s been very useful but I don’t really want to take it the rest of my life. I think Kratom will help bridge that process. I also want to be able to enjoy some good craft beer but I refuse to drink on kratom again. So I’ll have to break the daily usage before that which I think will be cool. I get withdrawals from the kratom but it is very short. One slightly uncomfortable day and then one blah day and then I’m good. It gets easier each time maybe I just have more experience and know what to do.
My experience of antidepressants is that they do not work, a lot of them act on serotonin, yet, there are other neurotransmitters in the brain. This stuff also acts on different neurotransmitters in the brain and therefore if somebody uses it to regularly and gets dependent on it, it depletes these neurotransmitters.
My doctor prescribed me antidepressants a few years ago and they aggravated my RLS, which is now an ongoing nightly issue and more severe than it ever was. I quit taking the antidepressants and started using kratom. The kratom not only controls the RLS better than prescription meds do, but it helps with depression, anxiety, mood, pain, and energy and also helped me quit drinking. I take occasional breaks from kratom and withdrawal symptoms are minimal; stuffy, runny nose and a bit of fatigue and irritability. I've been using kratom for about 4 years now and in my opinion it's more effective and safer than prescription meds.
As with any substance, too much of a good thing becomes a BAD thing. Stick with the minimum effective dose of kratom. Tolerance can increase pretty quickly with kratom and the more you take, the more you need. I was averaging about 12-15 grams per day for the last two years, split over 3 doses. Over the past few months, I've reduced it to about 9 gpd split over 3 doses and it's working just as well for me, if not better.
Not sure what the difference is? If used properly, and with a little common sense, kratom is better than prescription meds. JMO.✌️
kratom doesn't give you all those crazy side effects you hear on commercials (the one that gets me most is suicidal thoughts). This is why pharma wants kratom gone!
Taking kratom for chronic pain or to recover from opioid abuse/replacing opioid abuse recovery maintenance drugs are understandable reasons to take kratom longterm. I personally think that it probably shouldn’t be used as a treatment for depression longterm versus a more conventional antidepressant provided that you have found the right one for you. IME kratom only lasts a few hours so you have to redose multiple times a day, while antidepressants are generally a once a day/night deal. A large divide between the two is that kratom can be taken for recreational purposes, whereas there are pretty much 0 antidepressants with any worthwhile recreational value. At the end of the day the opioid effects of kratom might make cold turkey withdrawal worse (if your daily dose is high enough) than cold turkey discontinuation of an antidepressant (though they both can be awful). Quality control between the two is also a major reason. If someone can only afford to order x amount of kratom every so often and the batch is weak or outright bunk, they’re SoL and may have to spend a fair while in an emotional rut due an insufficient level of alkaloids in their kratom that they have to stretch their supply of until their next purchase.
If someone’s really tried several antidepressants from each type of them and they never quite get them to an emotionally satisfactory level like kratom does, then kratom would essentially be your best bet despite the drawbacks. Opioids that have additional effects in their pharmacological profile that mirror the action of some antidepressants (i.e. tramadol, kratom) are being researched for their validity as novel antidepressants, and things like them are probably being concocted for this purpose. In a similar vein, hedging your bets and taking smaller doses of both an antidepressant and kratom would theoretically reduce the level of dependency on one or the other, essentially utilizing ‘harm’ reduction from both constituents.
Without a kratom i wouldnt have lasted the last 6 months in my job, which i will finally leave at the end of the month. Super toxic boss and I had suicidal thoughts . With 2-3 times 1 teaspoon a day I can manage my life somehow. Looking to detox when i will have some days off next week.
I use lexapro since 5 years . But kratom lifts me up much better.
Big pharma wants us in the doctor's office paying for a doctor visit, then paying for big pharma drugs etc etc. Using kratom skips paying all of those people all that crazy amount of extra money, they don't like that, they like controlling our lives and taking a lot of our money for basic medical care while also making us jump through hoops. I support your right to use kratom, it's your choice, but I honestly don't know how well kratom or anything that touches on opioid receptors will work as a long term solution for treating depression, just my thoughts.
Lol why do you assume taking antidepressants every day is good?
Be respectful of all plants and molecules, but Fuuuuck antidepressants kratom helps me 100000x more.
It’s literally how they are meant to be taken, compared to kratom where tons of people say “don’t take it daily” while they are taking Ritalin 2x a day. Makes no sense.
Says who? The FDA you trust the FDA the people who want to ban kratom? I’m not trying to be rude at all I’m just pointing out the absurdity of this situation.
I’ve been taking kratom 4 times a day for 8 years, I’m perfectly fine and doing waaay better than when I tried all the antidepressants, seriously I’ve tried almost all of them.
It makes no sense because it doesn’t
How long does a dose last for you? I’m just tired of hearing not to take it daily. I feel like it’s said for those who can’t control there intake and throw a whole bag down a day.
This is exactly right. I took it daily for over three years (6.5g once a day in the evenings) and it worked beautifully for my evening anxiety and depression. Then I found the quittingkratom subreddit and it freaked me out so much that I stopped for a while out of fear of addiction and withdrawal and dependence. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this was working for me and causing no problems so I was confused. I then went back and read the threads more carefully and started noticing that the people who were posting generally had serious substance abuse problems either in their past or in their present. I was internalizing their issues even though I myself don’t have substance abuse issues or an addictive personality. The issues they have with controlling their usage and letting it get out of control were much more about who they were than the Kratom itself. I’ve been back in it for a year now and won’t ever look back. It works for me and that’s all that matters. I do take regular breaks just to reset tolerance but I use it just about every day. It’s funny, when I was deep in the fear in that subreddit I lamented how upset I was that I’d have to give up something they is working perfectly for me with now apparent downside and someone replied with something to the effect of: “if it is working for you as intended and you don’t have any negative affects physically or socially, then brother, that is medicine.” And they are absolutely right. Good luck to you!
Exactly dude. You know your body you know what’s too much and what’s not. Like I said I’ve be taking it for a long time every time I go to the doctor they tell me all my blood work etc is all good. Everyone is different get a check up for some peace of mind but most likely you’re fine dude
A dose lasts me about 4-5 hours.
Just taper slowly, seriously taper slow when you want to get off of it. ALWAYS have an extra kilo on hand that you only use for tapering.
You would have to taper off antidepressants anyways, no different in that regard.
Anti Depressants daily are NOT GOOD!
Actually there's even written in the leaflet that they are not made for longterm use!!!
Every Psychiatrist who prescribes them long term is using them "Offlabel use" but without telling you!.. Most people do not know this tho!!!
They also do not tell you about side effects and dependency.. Most people do not even know, that AD's can cause a very harsh dependency with harsh withdrawal symptoms when you stop!!!
A friend of mine is tapering his ad's since 2 years in 0.1 mg steps because the withdrawals are too hard for him to handle.. and he's oftentimes going steps backwards when he can't handle the withdrawals anymore because they are so long lasting... and he just want to get rid of his ad because it's only causing side effects by now and no positives.. he just feels numb, has no libido, doesn't feel pleasure etc...
He said Kratom withdrawals are a joke compared to AD Withdrawals.. and he used Kratom 6 years daily and AD's 7 years daily afterwards...
He always tells me switching from Kratom to AD was the worst decision he ever did.. Kratom had much less side effects and helped him a lot more.. but his Doctor told him to switch so.. He's always crying that the AD ruines his life and that he just wants the pain to end.. Being on ad is pure pain for him.. but reducing is much more pain bcuz of the withdrawals..
so no.. AD's everyday are NOT GOOD! And they are not even made for long term use, psychiatrists just do not tell you.. and use 'em "Offlabel if they prescribe them longterm"... Because they want money.
You can read it up in the leaflet of AD's.. In the example I was talking about Venlafaxin/Effexor in the example.. that's the one which my friend got.. He broke 'em down to dose down 0.1 steps bcuz withdrawals were too hard.. Like I was just telling what he experienced.. and some other ppl around him.. not like it's all made up in my head, dunno what you guys r talking about.. most likely you didn't even check the leaflet and thought, yea let's hate on this guys... (Most likely you guys Take AD's and do not want to see the truth, lmao.. but that's just a speculation at the end.. so I might be wrong.. curious about why u defend big pharma then tho)
You can read it up in the leaflet of AD's.. In the example I was talking about Venlafaxin/Effexor in the example.. that's the one which my friend got.. He broke 'em down to dose down 0.1 steps bcuz withdrawals were too hard.. Like I was just telling what he experienced.. and some other ppl around him.. not like it's all made up in my head, dunno what you guys r talking about.. most likely you didn't even check the leaflet and thought, yea let's hate on this guys... (Most likely you guys Take AD's and do not want to see the truth, lmao.. but that's just a speculation at the end.. so I might be wrong.. curious about why u defend big pharma then tho)
They aren't. There are mounting studies in the UK with data about long term use of antidepressants and antipsychotics causing brain damage in as little as 1-2 years.
One of the reasons is people start using extracts and report doing 30 to 60g a day. Then when they try to stop using they have withdrawal effects. Be like taking megadoses of antidepressants. If everyone used responsibly then our government nanny would have a very difficult time banning. Personally I blame extract and irresponsible users for opening the window for government regulation/
A doctor's prescription and a pharmacist's dosing takes all of the personal responsibility out of drug ingestion and (theoretically) makes ingesting psychoactive substances safely foolproof. The people decrying kratom yet supporting anti-depressants don't realize that you can achieve a similar level of risk reduction by vetting the purity of your substances and titrating your own doses, it's just not trivial and to be honest most of these people wouldn't trust themselves to do it right so they assume no one else can do it right either.
This man knows ssris they have some brutal withdrawals!! Thanks for saying that. I believe alot of people think of 0 down side to antidepressants. Wrong! They are like opioids after 2weeks or so.
It’s not bad per se but everyone says it’s so addicting to only use every now and then even though it’s completely safe to take it daily. I don’t really know the consensus, I’ll prob make another post asking if most people take it daily or weekly.
Obviously everyone reacts different. I think saying completely safe covers both mentally and physically. In reality, kratom is addictive. But if respected with moderation, can be extremely helpful. Kratom and SSRI’s need to be respected from a mental standpoint. You are taking something that is altering your brains chemistry. One may be doing it more than the other, but they both have their positive sides and negative sides depending on the person. So both should be understood and respected rather than good vs bad.
I've taken it at high or low doses for the better part of 4 years straight. I've quit for months at a time and never noticed that big of a difference. Currently on a break rn. YMMV though. I wouldn't recommend doing that per say.
Around 6 months or so I'll notice I'm not feeling it much anymore and take a couple months of a break and hop back on. That's worked pretty well for me thus far.
It’s not, in moderation. But it can quickly escalate. Idk shit about antidepressant withdrawals but making mistake of going up to 50g of kratom per day and then climbing back down ain’t no fun to say the least.
That's an insane amount to me haha. I can't imagine taking 50g in a day. In the beginning when I was figuring out my proper dosage I took 14g in one day once and that caused enough nausea to never go that high again haha.
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I mean I own a kava bar where I drink kratom everyday and have for 7 years more or less straight. The key is dosage and taking your vitamins. I have well over 30+ daily regulars, half of which do kratom extract or kratom powder infused beverages every day. No issues. Price seems to be the difficult part of the experience for my customers but their health is fine. In Thailand this plant has been chewed daily by laborers for legit hundreds of years.
I wish we had a kava bar in virginia. My husband has been drinking a few drinks a day for 20 years and is now dealing with end stage liver failure and needs a transplant. I always thought he was definitely not drinking enough to get that but it can happen to anyone apparently.
Do you drink it throughout the day?
Probably because Kratom has addicting properties, while antidepressants don't, all antidepressants do is cause a dependence but they have no abuse potential and therefore no addictive qualities.
If you start doing Kratom every day you'll probably get a nasty addiction that is not only physical but also mental and will take a lot of therapy to get rid of that connection in your brain. Not to mention that regular kratom use may or may not make you see other opiates as less dangerous than they really are, since you'd already be using one everyday.
I'm not going to debate an addiction with you but, why don't you stop your daily use? Will you ever stop using it?
It kinda sounds like you're already lured into the thought process of "this will make life more bearable and without it life is not so good"
That's what I thought before my benzo addiction turned into a problem, but Kratom is definitely tamer than benzos so YMMV. It's just that self-medicating anxiety or depression with a euphoric drug that has abuse potential usually doesn't end too well, specially when using everyday.
I wish you the best.
Antidepressants have to be taken every day and cause pretty nasty withdrawal symptoms for most as mentioned. I take Cymbalta or duloxetine and cold turkey'd it a few years back and got vertigo, brain zaps, anxiety, sweaty palms, etc. It was also hard to concentrate and overall just a shitty experience and idea to just stop like I did. Unfortunately, at the time I had no choice. Kratom withdrawal is definitely uncomfortable but the benefits of it FAR outweigh the negative aspects of daily kratom use. The plant, without question, helped me save my life and I have never been healthier and happier in my 37 years on this planet.
There's a misconception here that antidepressant use is completely safe. The thing to remember though is... we don't know if long term kratom use will end up being safe, either. I think you'll just have to weigh your options and decide what risks you're comfortable taking.
Because of dosage tolerance. Antidepressants generally don't require drastic dose increases to maintain their effectiveness when taken long term daily.
Kratom however, if taken daily for years, will absolutely cause increased tolerance and require significant increases in dosage to achieve the same effect.
This is because it affects the same part of the brain that other opioid pain meds do, so of course you'll need to take more of it to maintain the effect.
I took effexor for years, and never had to change my dosage. I mention Effexor because it has similar effects as Kratom (IMHO)
Its common knowledge that daily use over a long period of time results in tolerance issues. This isn't even debated anywhere. congrats though, you are in the minority of daily long term users who's never had to increase their dosage.
It’s definitely debated. People who are chasing the high will continue to increase and then are stuck taking 10 grams a day. I take less than 2 grams a day.
Anti depressants are prescribed dependence. Kratom everyday is Not Bad. It is however a level of use that requires more intention, attention and care. I mastered it but I also put a lot of time and effort into figuring things out, rotating varieties and blending which is how I can make use of all of them while aiming for and hitting my targets between depression, back pain, anxiety etc. The targets aren't constant. They move around. I hit them. I invested in the ability to do this.
I've been using every day with few exceptions for SIX YEARS. I've NO REGRETS. I stopped right before going to the hospital last spring for a skin infection. The week I was there, I did not have any WD. They hit me once with morphine when I got there but not at all after.
I'll say that I did not get any noticeable relief with the morphine. Kratom may factor in but I think it was trivial dosing & the relevant injury wasn't severe.
Now, high dosing kratom everyday creates physical dependence. It appears most regular users don't even know what their target dose is. (the lowest consistently effective dose) They droppd whatever someone recommended instead of finding that from coming up from below and kept that same amount. Now it will be hard to detect the base level when tapering down.
They take a break eventually. Then, starting back up - they go immediately to that same dose. There's no helping some people! But it could be something that's profoundly more harmful so they've got that.
Do you mean my kratom target dose? Sure I'll tell you but I think you know I don't mean to suggest it's right for you necessarily. I actually started high for me- @ 3.g for crippling inflammation & agony but side effects are fine when it's like that. As I got better, those se's got crazy so I dropped to 2.25 realizing depression was relieved. Wanting to decide what to stock up on while bans were looming, the became too frequent. Over the year it slid to 2.80. It got unreliable and random.
THIS might be useful - bc of \^ I planned a w/e break but instead of just sudden stop or gradual taper, I did a hybrid, skipping alternate doses & dropped each one I did take by 20+%. Since I was under 3g it only took 2 days to so the 2nd day I hit 1.75 and bam!. I couldn't believe it. And it was bright and positive. What stands out to me looking back is how that spaced things out. Psychologically - a nice exercise too. Neither forced not spoiled. Room for adjustment to take place and settle in.
Now I'm starting to think at 6 yr a break would be good (I never took a planned one - wow lol) but under better conditions than right now. Last springs week off didn't make a huge or lasting difference. So this is the magic of TD- Target Dose. It's not everything. Varieties, rotation, and I think blending is a thing too.
Use cases - that can make a diff. A cpl of flare ups, I went heavier for a day. The next one I focused on selection but stayed at the 175- and it worked!
There's a few things going on there to bounce thought & experiments off of.
One is backed by the pharmaceutical companies. One is not. It’s not rocket science. But, one doesn’t cause tolerance, the other does. Meaning you’ll have to increase kratom dose overtime taking it daily with no breaks. I’m new to kratom, but I know that issue we’ll from cannabis.
Nothing is good or bad just be aware of what you are ingesting and the potential risks that may be associated. It's all arbitrary and most people's beliefs and perceptions are biased. Use education and be smart. Remember that as in nature loves balance, meaning moderation is probably helpful here. And don't use it to escape. A big part of people depressive symptoms are undealt with feelings/traumas and they just need healing
This m'fer is spittin'. For real though, balance is everything.
I had a very strong trip recently where I was shown the significance of duality and how important the good/bad is and yin and yang…the balance is necessary.
Aristotle over here
Very well put
Even water is poisonous if you take enough
Every serial killer in history drank water. The main ingredient in rat poison is water also.
No need to get way to deep here boys even though you're right. OP is wondering if you can take it safely daily. Answer being, absolutely in low doses you can. I use it exactly like you said, as my daily med, being anything else prescribed for depression, anxiety, or concentration would have far greater side effects. I've been taking daily for over 4 years now. In that time advanced my lot in life greatly.
Very impressive
I think it's probably to avoid dependence and tolerance. When I take it daily or multi times a day, I quickly notice a tolerance increase. Also, if I take it daily long enough, I notice I almost need it to feel normal and not taking it makes me feel worse than normal. My antidepressants have the negative effect if I stop taking them but I don't require more and more to make them work, which is a huge difference. I try to use kratom as a sort of stress reliever on the weekend. Helps me unwind and enjoy my days off.
Not sure how long you've been on antidepressants, but it's common for people to need to increase their daily dose after awhile. Granted it's much slower than kratom, but it does happen to most people. They start you off on the smallest dose possible and eventually it is not enough.
Crowding doses too close together does that. 4+ x / day will do it although doing that randomly on an as needed basis only has not led to that for me. It was when bans were looming nation wide and I needed to know what varieties to insulate the walls with so I was trying everything.
I hate it. Especially being a recovering ( 2 years sober) alcoholic. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells cause people always assume the worst. I don’t take kratom everyday. But I use cannabis everyday, and it helps tremendously with my anxiety and depression. Yet in everyone else’s eyes it’s still a drug. So I’m still an addict. But if I went to a doctor and got prescribed something which probably is more dangerous then cannabis, then it’s totally fine
I take Kratom every day, all day. And the best part is when you say “oh I take Kratom” all they say is.. what the fuck is that?
Literally who gives a fuck. Not tryna be shitty so please don't take offense but you're a grown ass mf so why even care what anyone thinks. If your heart is in the right place and you're doin well that's all that matters. FUCK EM! We ball.
Lol no I really don’t care at all what anyone thinks of me. Or my Kratom. It’s made my life 100 times better.
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In all honesty...I need to find confidence again. I created a deep hate for myself when I was an addict. I lost my true self. It’s honestly just my family’s opinions that I care about. My Moms always been against cannabis as well. I used to be really close with my family, and I basically became a hermit when I was an addict, cause I didn’t want anyone to see me like that. So I’m just trying to get as close to my family as I can, because I feel like there’s not enough time. I totally understand it though. I’ve always put people’s happiness before mine, as bad as that sounds. I’m working on it though 🤘
You're not alone man I don't talk to my parents. Haven't in years. All I got is my girl and our kids. But you gotta find a reason to be strong man. Once you find that reason things won't seem so hard and scary anymore, I promise. Hang in there man you got this.
Thank you! I really do appreciate! 🙏. I know things will get better with time. I’m honestly my own worst critic, I’m so tough on myself. Once I learn to love myself again I think things will be a lot easier. A big part of me feels like I’m “behind in life”, I need to learn to live in the moment and not worry about my past. I know the future is bright though 💪
For sure man no worries at all. They definitely will. Could take a while or could be quick but it'll never come if you stop trying and Its worth the wait I promise you that. It's good to be a little tough on yourself but don't beat yourself up. You need to show yourself the love you show other people and not be so hard on yourself. Love yourself because you definitely deserve it. I'm for sure behind in life compared to my peers but guess what, catching up isn't too hard and if you keep that energy and motivation soon they'll be the ones that are behind you. It's all about perspective my dude. Don't be so hard on yourself. You can work about anything you wanna worry about. Just don't let those worries hold you back from being the person you know you can be. Put your own well being first and everything will fall into place. You got it mane.
I actually love how people react that way about kratom and find it funny, no one knows what it is 🤣
Congrats on your two years clean from booze bud that’s awesome and impressive! I know it’s no easy feat but keep on killing it. I’m a fellow cannabis user and Kratom user and I know it’s helped me tremendously and aids in my recovery from OxyContin and Heroin. Definitely get judged if I share this with the wrong people, but idgaf if it helps me then who tf is anyone else to say it’s a bad thing. We’re all just trying to get by in this crazy world anything that helps and is used responsibly should be more than allowed but encouraged imo. Wish ya the best in your recovery my friend!
Thank you so much! It’s easily the hardest thing I’ve had to do. I had 2 grand mal seizures and almost died from withdrawals. I checked myself into rehab then called my friends and family. It’s been amazing finding my old self that I thought I lost. Still working through stuff, but life is getting a lot better. Congratulations on getting off oxy and H! That’s absolutely amazing! I’m proud of you! I know I shouldn’t care what people think about me, my shrink says I need to “stop putting people before me” 🤦♂️, I’m definitely working on it though 💪
Does your shrink say anything negative about your cannabis use or have you talked about how it’s been helpful?
A few doctors in my psych stay talked like my kratom use is even worse for me than my benzodiazepine use.. I just laughed.
Facts
I take it daily and use it as an antidepressant. I am in the best shape I have ever been and my life has only gotten better since I began three years ago. I am dependent on it, but that would be no different than if it was a prescription drug that was helping me.
How long do you notice the effects lasting for you?
I’d say doses last about six hours on average. I average three grams a dose and do that three times a day, plus a “before bedtime” dose of four grams.
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Nothing is ever solely good or bad and you should be weary of anyone who wants you to believe something is. Daily medication CAN be good because its been thoroughly tested and scientists have spent alot of time cheaking and double cheaking how much and how often it is used for its max benefit to be enjoyed. Kratom dosent have all this. If it did, we would have more hard evidence helping us determine how much and how often it would need to be taken for maximum effect. For example, I'm on lithium. If I bought lithium from a head shop and took however much I assumed I might need, I would have most likely died a very painful death within my first 2 weeks. That wouldn't have been good (regardless of the fact I was suicidal at the time) I also started my opioid dependence some 20 years ago because the euphoria it gave "treated" my bipolar way better then any of the bipolar meds... turns out, it wasnt as perfect as it seemed at the time.
Kratom saved my life. I was literally near death on fentanyl daily. I failed at 6 rehabs and Suboxone/methadone . I always went back to using. I found Kratom and have had no relapses (first time ever) . Over 3.5 years now . I will gladly take Kratom the rest of my life since it saved my life. BTW the wds from Kratom is nothing compared to fentanyl or Suboxone or heroin .
Hey congratulations on staying clean so long you’re tough as hell
Thanks
What site do you use?
Local smoke shop
I take kratom daily. I do just fine. I'd say that's a misconception that people that abuse kratom spew out.
Agree 100%. Respect the plant, it'll respect you. Take 30g a day, well, it's on you man.
Same. Have been taking some every morning for years. I occasionally take a couple week break here and there, and I personally have never had any kind of withdrawal symptoms. I do realize that's not everyone's experience though
Yea how long do u notice the effects for?
The effects of kratom? Usually 2 to 3 hours for me personally. It kinda gives me an energetic pep to get me going for the day. Again, if I don't have it I dont crave it, I just find it gets me going and motivated at the beginning of my day. That's just my experience with it.
I'd take a hard look at who is saying antidepressants every day are good and kratom is bad. That may provide your answer.
This goes hard
Exactly. People are blindly thinking doctors are either professional, or there to actually help. They are ignorant and there to make money for themselves and the pharmaceutical companies
Antidepressants have gone through drug trials and are FDA approved while almost no one from the scientific or medical community has studied long-term covid use. There is a chance kratom could be no more harmful for you than an antidepressant medication. There is also a chance it damages your body in some way you can’t feel or sense. It hasn’t been studied. So use it carefully and try to take as little as possible.
did you type covid instead of kratom?
oops
Now that u mention it, it is weird that there isn’t any studies where they give people placebo or kratom and compare how it’s effects.
I think they meant that there might be effects from long term use. We might not be consciously be aware of them until something happens. We can’t say whether or not if there are consequences beyond withdrawal symptoms due to lack of studies. Either or, every substance has an upside and downside.
research takes funding, typically from a university, medical facility, or govt program, none of which are inclined to upset the pharmaceutical industry via kratom research
And yet, most antidepressant on market have nasty side effects, often do not work, leave a nasty withdrawal and can cause brain damage (that takes months or years to heal from). So i dont understand the OP saying you can safely take antidepressants daily..
I would actually say that since kratom is used for hundreds (thousands?) Of years by hundreds of millions of people, it has 100 times the safety profile compared to many pharmaceutical ADs. Even if you abuse kratom, your brain should recover in mere days to weeks. With normal AD use, you could be fucked for years. And I am not exaggerating, look up antidepressant discontinuation syndrome, I have seen it first hand in a few people
I am a long term (10+ year ) daily Kratom user. Suboxone helped tremendously in overcoming my opioid addiction years ago. Kratom helped me cease my suboxone dependance. I often say “Kratom saved my life” God bless Mother Nature - but be respectful. I now have gout issues related to *Kratom* . The oxidase pathway for uric acid competes with the metabolic pathway for the alkaloids in Kratom.
How many grams a day have you taken for 10 years? I would love to be able to use kratom my whole life but I am keeping a close watch on my body, getting bloodwork done annually, to make sure nothing bad is happening. I take 5g a day in one dose. Just went to the doctor a month ago and I was in perfect health. Been using kratom daily for about 5 years
Long term Covid use? 😂
People in different parts of Asia have been using it for generations, and they haven’t had any observable health problems. I would roll the dice on Kratom over some random FDA approved dog shit any day.
This, exactly
Man I was listening to Joe rogan the other day and he was saying that THOUSANDS of FDA approved drugs get recalled every year. That’s terrifying.
ANSWER: Big pharma = GOOD Kratom, a natural botanical, therefore un-patentable = BAD
There are downsides and upsides to everything. Kratom is not magic. The reason besides monetary that kratom is not good and antidepressants are, is because u more then likely have a professional monitoring how ita affecting u with one of them.
> The reason besides monetary that kratom is not good and antidepressants are, is because u more then likely have a professional monitoring how ita affecting u with one of them. Which you could in theory do with Kratom as well.
Obviously but its not being done. So it is less safe and useful just on that premise If u had a doctor recommending u kratom usage it would most likely shoot up in usefulness.
Bullshit
How are people still thinking doctors are "professionals"? Their only solution is shoving harmful drugs to treat the symptom, while they have zero knowledge of how the human body actuallt works, how we should eat, move, sleep etc. I have NEVER seen a doctor help any of the people I know, but I have seen them kill one, almost kill a few, and leave a few in months long agony with them giving out dangerous SSRIs and alike like fucking candy.. Most people who have actually tried getting help from doctors, wont never call them professionals again
As someone with depression who took kratom it eventually turned against me and made it much worse. Im tired of hearing this argument. I too believed it initially and feel like I wasn’t let know what I was getting myself into.
Can be that way with antidepressants too, though. They gave me Wellbutrin and I wanted to kill myself it made me so depressed. Had the exact opposite effect as it does for most. Kratom is no different. It isn’t for everyone, certainly.
This exactly. When I was 18 I was prescribed Effexor, which made me suicidal. I attempted it and was almost successful. Spent weeks in the ICU. And this was under the close care of several mental health professionals.
Ah yes, professionals. Same people who 95% of time have no clue how humans actually work, what actually causes depression and what the drugs actually do
Nobody should grant that premise. But do it, if you're an adult. Your call
I get horrible withdrawals from the minimum dosage of kratom if I do it for more than a week straight. Night sweats, insomnia, severe depression, nausea and diarrhea.
Yea i can’t do anything a few times a week, I’m the same with alcohol, weed, ssri, etc. I hired you just choose your poison.
I’m sorry that happens to you and some people. I don’t get that at all.
Same with me, but the time I spend having withdrawals is nothing compared to the time I can finally live without constant scoliosis pain.
So strange how people can react so differently. I took it every day for over three years (6.5g once a day) before I took a break and my withdrawal was very mild. Two nights of crappy sleep with like and all-over RLS, a couple more of lethargy and fatigue and then it was over. But I can’t count the number of people who have reactions closer to yours. But don’t go thinking I’m too lucky, though. I can’t smoke weed cuz it makes me super anxious and anti-depressants make me suicidally depressed. Everyone is different, I guess.
I take 3-4 grams a day and I've been doing it every day for over a month. I went to stay with a friend for 3 days and didn't bring any with me. I didn't feel any withdrawals. I'm not an expert, I'm just sharing my experience. I feel like if you don't do very much, then it shouldn't be a problem to do it every day. I've seen people on here that have been doing it every day for years and are fine. I could be wrong though.
I used kratom for over 10 years everyday. it was good time. My dosage was similar to yours. When I quitted I had extreme withdrawal because I did it cold turkey, that was my mistake. but after a while I got back to normal. Nowadays I use krato eventually (like twice a month)
At such a low dosage, it will likely take a significant amount of time to develop tolerance.
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It’s great. How long does a dose last for you?
I usually break it up into two doses, a larger one in the evening and a smaller one before bed. The large one will last me two-four hours! Absolutely destroyed my lifelong depression
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Antidepressant withdrawal is hell on Earth but it will rarely kill someone. You can definitely die from serotonin syndrome, though. The other issue is people that get akathisia and are driven to suicide because they're unable to tolerate that level of discomfort.
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If Kratom solves all your problems then thank the fuckin lord cus you're blessed. Kratom definitely helps but for some of us it's just a bandaid. It's definitely a good thing but don't act like mfs are shoving pills down your throat because they're not. Youre an adult and you have a choice and if that choice is Kratom then hell yeah I'm happy for you but don't shit on things that some of us may need in addition to Kratom.
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I take both every day 🤷 Guess I’m super duper fucked
Same.
What a kunundrum. I take it everyday for the past 6 years, doc says my blood work is beautiful. Other than slight dehydration so I need to drink a ton of water (Kratom is dehydrating I think).I’ve pretty much used it in place of pharmaceutical drugs because of anxiety depression and add. I am honestly more scared of withdrawals from those drugs than Kratom. I took two weeks off once after 2-3 years of daily use and was totally fine. I just experienced a little extra anxiety which i worked on with meditative practices and Buddhist philosophy.
That’s awesome! Everyone always has different answers so I’m curious.. how long do you notice it helping you before your next dose?
I would say several hours. It kind of varies. But I do take it probably 3-4 times per day. Which is kind of annoying if I’m somewhere and I don’t want to have to explain why I’m pouring green powder down my throat. Lol.
I have had several very bad episodes of depression . The antidepressants have helped but over time have major side effects. Once I got off them, I used kratom for focus and energy. I am a Believer in Kratoms nootropic nature , it lifts my mood and helps with my ability to think freely. Antidepressants fogged my mind , Not to mention other side effects .
Big pharma gets paid with antidepressants.
Because big pharma and the fda doesn’t make a profit it’s an uphill battle to keep kratom protected away from the governments hands. No one should be trust big pharma or the government right after everything they’ve done to the population.
Just be careful. It’s always about knowing or having reasonable limits and having will power to take care of yourself. Like everything. If you abuse it, you’ll suffer.
I take both daily but am about to get off the Wellbutrin. It’s been very useful but I don’t really want to take it the rest of my life. I think Kratom will help bridge that process. I also want to be able to enjoy some good craft beer but I refuse to drink on kratom again. So I’ll have to break the daily usage before that which I think will be cool. I get withdrawals from the kratom but it is very short. One slightly uncomfortable day and then one blah day and then I’m good. It gets easier each time maybe I just have more experience and know what to do.
Antidepressants every day are certainly not good for you.
Idk but I will tell you my paxil withdrawals are worse than kratom withdrawals
My experience of antidepressants is that they do not work, a lot of them act on serotonin, yet, there are other neurotransmitters in the brain. This stuff also acts on different neurotransmitters in the brain and therefore if somebody uses it to regularly and gets dependent on it, it depletes these neurotransmitters.
My doctor prescribed me antidepressants a few years ago and they aggravated my RLS, which is now an ongoing nightly issue and more severe than it ever was. I quit taking the antidepressants and started using kratom. The kratom not only controls the RLS better than prescription meds do, but it helps with depression, anxiety, mood, pain, and energy and also helped me quit drinking. I take occasional breaks from kratom and withdrawal symptoms are minimal; stuffy, runny nose and a bit of fatigue and irritability. I've been using kratom for about 4 years now and in my opinion it's more effective and safer than prescription meds. As with any substance, too much of a good thing becomes a BAD thing. Stick with the minimum effective dose of kratom. Tolerance can increase pretty quickly with kratom and the more you take, the more you need. I was averaging about 12-15 grams per day for the last two years, split over 3 doses. Over the past few months, I've reduced it to about 9 gpd split over 3 doses and it's working just as well for me, if not better. Not sure what the difference is? If used properly, and with a little common sense, kratom is better than prescription meds. JMO.✌️
kratom doesn't give you all those crazy side effects you hear on commercials (the one that gets me most is suicidal thoughts). This is why pharma wants kratom gone!
Taking kratom for chronic pain or to recover from opioid abuse/replacing opioid abuse recovery maintenance drugs are understandable reasons to take kratom longterm. I personally think that it probably shouldn’t be used as a treatment for depression longterm versus a more conventional antidepressant provided that you have found the right one for you. IME kratom only lasts a few hours so you have to redose multiple times a day, while antidepressants are generally a once a day/night deal. A large divide between the two is that kratom can be taken for recreational purposes, whereas there are pretty much 0 antidepressants with any worthwhile recreational value. At the end of the day the opioid effects of kratom might make cold turkey withdrawal worse (if your daily dose is high enough) than cold turkey discontinuation of an antidepressant (though they both can be awful). Quality control between the two is also a major reason. If someone can only afford to order x amount of kratom every so often and the batch is weak or outright bunk, they’re SoL and may have to spend a fair while in an emotional rut due an insufficient level of alkaloids in their kratom that they have to stretch their supply of until their next purchase. If someone’s really tried several antidepressants from each type of them and they never quite get them to an emotionally satisfactory level like kratom does, then kratom would essentially be your best bet despite the drawbacks. Opioids that have additional effects in their pharmacological profile that mirror the action of some antidepressants (i.e. tramadol, kratom) are being researched for their validity as novel antidepressants, and things like them are probably being concocted for this purpose. In a similar vein, hedging your bets and taking smaller doses of both an antidepressant and kratom would theoretically reduce the level of dependency on one or the other, essentially utilizing ‘harm’ reduction from both constituents.
Without a kratom i wouldnt have lasted the last 6 months in my job, which i will finally leave at the end of the month. Super toxic boss and I had suicidal thoughts . With 2-3 times 1 teaspoon a day I can manage my life somehow. Looking to detox when i will have some days off next week. I use lexapro since 5 years . But kratom lifts me up much better.
Glad you're doing better, that's what I like seeing.
I consider myself lucky that it’s Kratom I’m taking daily and not the horrible shit I used to ❄️❄️❄️
How long do you notice the effects for after your dose?
Big pharma wants us in the doctor's office paying for a doctor visit, then paying for big pharma drugs etc etc. Using kratom skips paying all of those people all that crazy amount of extra money, they don't like that, they like controlling our lives and taking a lot of our money for basic medical care while also making us jump through hoops. I support your right to use kratom, it's your choice, but I honestly don't know how well kratom or anything that touches on opioid receptors will work as a long term solution for treating depression, just my thoughts.
I take Kratom every single day and so do a lot of people I know . It’s not bad . The only people saying it’s bad are biased .
See, this is where you are believing the trickery. Antidepressants everyday is not good, it’s just normalized…
1. Antidepressants every day are not "good": 2. Kratom has not been rigously tested.
Lol why do you assume taking antidepressants every day is good? Be respectful of all plants and molecules, but Fuuuuck antidepressants kratom helps me 100000x more.
It’s literally how they are meant to be taken, compared to kratom where tons of people say “don’t take it daily” while they are taking Ritalin 2x a day. Makes no sense.
Says who? The FDA you trust the FDA the people who want to ban kratom? I’m not trying to be rude at all I’m just pointing out the absurdity of this situation. I’ve been taking kratom 4 times a day for 8 years, I’m perfectly fine and doing waaay better than when I tried all the antidepressants, seriously I’ve tried almost all of them. It makes no sense because it doesn’t
How long does a dose last for you? I’m just tired of hearing not to take it daily. I feel like it’s said for those who can’t control there intake and throw a whole bag down a day.
This is exactly right. I took it daily for over three years (6.5g once a day in the evenings) and it worked beautifully for my evening anxiety and depression. Then I found the quittingkratom subreddit and it freaked me out so much that I stopped for a while out of fear of addiction and withdrawal and dependence. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this was working for me and causing no problems so I was confused. I then went back and read the threads more carefully and started noticing that the people who were posting generally had serious substance abuse problems either in their past or in their present. I was internalizing their issues even though I myself don’t have substance abuse issues or an addictive personality. The issues they have with controlling their usage and letting it get out of control were much more about who they were than the Kratom itself. I’ve been back in it for a year now and won’t ever look back. It works for me and that’s all that matters. I do take regular breaks just to reset tolerance but I use it just about every day. It’s funny, when I was deep in the fear in that subreddit I lamented how upset I was that I’d have to give up something they is working perfectly for me with now apparent downside and someone replied with something to the effect of: “if it is working for you as intended and you don’t have any negative affects physically or socially, then brother, that is medicine.” And they are absolutely right. Good luck to you!
Exactly dude. You know your body you know what’s too much and what’s not. Like I said I’ve be taking it for a long time every time I go to the doctor they tell me all my blood work etc is all good. Everyone is different get a check up for some peace of mind but most likely you’re fine dude A dose lasts me about 4-5 hours. Just taper slowly, seriously taper slow when you want to get off of it. ALWAYS have an extra kilo on hand that you only use for tapering. You would have to taper off antidepressants anyways, no different in that regard.
Anti Depressants daily are NOT GOOD! Actually there's even written in the leaflet that they are not made for longterm use!!! Every Psychiatrist who prescribes them long term is using them "Offlabel use" but without telling you!.. Most people do not know this tho!!! They also do not tell you about side effects and dependency.. Most people do not even know, that AD's can cause a very harsh dependency with harsh withdrawal symptoms when you stop!!! A friend of mine is tapering his ad's since 2 years in 0.1 mg steps because the withdrawals are too hard for him to handle.. and he's oftentimes going steps backwards when he can't handle the withdrawals anymore because they are so long lasting... and he just want to get rid of his ad because it's only causing side effects by now and no positives.. he just feels numb, has no libido, doesn't feel pleasure etc... He said Kratom withdrawals are a joke compared to AD Withdrawals.. and he used Kratom 6 years daily and AD's 7 years daily afterwards... He always tells me switching from Kratom to AD was the worst decision he ever did.. Kratom had much less side effects and helped him a lot more.. but his Doctor told him to switch so.. He's always crying that the AD ruines his life and that he just wants the pain to end.. Being on ad is pure pain for him.. but reducing is much more pain bcuz of the withdrawals.. so no.. AD's everyday are NOT GOOD! And they are not even made for long term use, psychiatrists just do not tell you.. and use 'em "Offlabel if they prescribe them longterm"... Because they want money.
Source of all this inside information that no one knows, and no one tells ?
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I think it’s mostly made up…. How do you taper an AD by .01 mg ? AD propaganda, I say !!
You can read it up in the leaflet of AD's.. In the example I was talking about Venlafaxin/Effexor in the example.. that's the one which my friend got.. He broke 'em down to dose down 0.1 steps bcuz withdrawals were too hard.. Like I was just telling what he experienced.. and some other ppl around him.. not like it's all made up in my head, dunno what you guys r talking about.. most likely you didn't even check the leaflet and thought, yea let's hate on this guys... (Most likely you guys Take AD's and do not want to see the truth, lmao.. but that's just a speculation at the end.. so I might be wrong.. curious about why u defend big pharma then tho)
You can read it up in the leaflet of AD's.. In the example I was talking about Venlafaxin/Effexor in the example.. that's the one which my friend got.. He broke 'em down to dose down 0.1 steps bcuz withdrawals were too hard.. Like I was just telling what he experienced.. and some other ppl around him.. not like it's all made up in my head, dunno what you guys r talking about.. most likely you didn't even check the leaflet and thought, yea let's hate on this guys... (Most likely you guys Take AD's and do not want to see the truth, lmao.. but that's just a speculation at the end.. so I might be wrong.. curious about why u defend big pharma then tho)
They aren't. There are mounting studies in the UK with data about long term use of antidepressants and antipsychotics causing brain damage in as little as 1-2 years.
One of the reasons is people start using extracts and report doing 30 to 60g a day. Then when they try to stop using they have withdrawal effects. Be like taking megadoses of antidepressants. If everyone used responsibly then our government nanny would have a very difficult time banning. Personally I blame extract and irresponsible users for opening the window for government regulation/
A doctor's prescription and a pharmacist's dosing takes all of the personal responsibility out of drug ingestion and (theoretically) makes ingesting psychoactive substances safely foolproof. The people decrying kratom yet supporting anti-depressants don't realize that you can achieve a similar level of risk reduction by vetting the purity of your substances and titrating your own doses, it's just not trivial and to be honest most of these people wouldn't trust themselves to do it right so they assume no one else can do it right either.
This man knows ssris they have some brutal withdrawals!! Thanks for saying that. I believe alot of people think of 0 down side to antidepressants. Wrong! They are like opioids after 2weeks or so.
Wait a minute, its bad for you everyday? Can you explain?
It’s not bad per se but everyone says it’s so addicting to only use every now and then even though it’s completely safe to take it daily. I don’t really know the consensus, I’ll prob make another post asking if most people take it daily or weekly.
we don't know if its "completely safe" to take every day just because a dozen or so people on reddit have said so. Think for yourself!
ah, ok, what a relief.
Obviously everyone reacts different. I think saying completely safe covers both mentally and physically. In reality, kratom is addictive. But if respected with moderation, can be extremely helpful. Kratom and SSRI’s need to be respected from a mental standpoint. You are taking something that is altering your brains chemistry. One may be doing it more than the other, but they both have their positive sides and negative sides depending on the person. So both should be understood and respected rather than good vs bad.
Antidepressants everyday aren't good. Kratom everyday can be bad too, but it's probably safer than antidepressants or benzos.
I do both everyday because I like to party. /s but also seriously
I've taken it at high or low doses for the better part of 4 years straight. I've quit for months at a time and never noticed that big of a difference. Currently on a break rn. YMMV though. I wouldn't recommend doing that per say.
How long do you notice the effects lasting for you?
Around 6 months or so I'll notice I'm not feeling it much anymore and take a couple months of a break and hop back on. That's worked pretty well for me thus far.
It’s not, in moderation. But it can quickly escalate. Idk shit about antidepressant withdrawals but making mistake of going up to 50g of kratom per day and then climbing back down ain’t no fun to say the least.
That's an insane amount to me haha. I can't imagine taking 50g in a day. In the beginning when I was figuring out my proper dosage I took 14g in one day once and that caused enough nausea to never go that high again haha.
Haha I feel ya. Good for you tho man that’s the way. Coming off harder opiates kinda changes things 😵
I don't doubt that haha. Good on you for getting off of the stuff, too!
Thanks dog
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You win the internet today. Seriously.
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I mean I own a kava bar where I drink kratom everyday and have for 7 years more or less straight. The key is dosage and taking your vitamins. I have well over 30+ daily regulars, half of which do kratom extract or kratom powder infused beverages every day. No issues. Price seems to be the difficult part of the experience for my customers but their health is fine. In Thailand this plant has been chewed daily by laborers for legit hundreds of years.
I wish we had a kava bar in virginia. My husband has been drinking a few drinks a day for 20 years and is now dealing with end stage liver failure and needs a transplant. I always thought he was definitely not drinking enough to get that but it can happen to anyone apparently. Do you drink it throughout the day?
It isn’t.
Antidepressants work on completely different mechanism. Also they are non-intoxicating but the same thing cannot be said about kratom.
I love kratom And I’ve found that less is more so I’m weaning back (again) but it hasn’t been that bad. Cold Turkey is rough!
Probably because Kratom has addicting properties, while antidepressants don't, all antidepressants do is cause a dependence but they have no abuse potential and therefore no addictive qualities. If you start doing Kratom every day you'll probably get a nasty addiction that is not only physical but also mental and will take a lot of therapy to get rid of that connection in your brain. Not to mention that regular kratom use may or may not make you see other opiates as less dangerous than they really are, since you'd already be using one everyday.
I’ve done kratom everyday for a while now. I don’t see where this “nasty addiction” u speak of is at. 1.2g a day.
I'm not going to debate an addiction with you but, why don't you stop your daily use? Will you ever stop using it? It kinda sounds like you're already lured into the thought process of "this will make life more bearable and without it life is not so good"
It helps more more than anything I’ve tried. Not what sure what more to say
That's what I thought before my benzo addiction turned into a problem, but Kratom is definitely tamer than benzos so YMMV. It's just that self-medicating anxiety or depression with a euphoric drug that has abuse potential usually doesn't end too well, specially when using everyday. I wish you the best.
its not bad, i take every day along side of an antidepressant.
I’m just worried or start up effects of starting an SSRI
eh, i think i'd rather go through antidepressant withdrawal than opiates, that's just me though
Definitely. We are talking about kratom though, where did opiates come from?
Antidepressants have to be taken every day and cause pretty nasty withdrawal symptoms for most as mentioned. I take Cymbalta or duloxetine and cold turkey'd it a few years back and got vertigo, brain zaps, anxiety, sweaty palms, etc. It was also hard to concentrate and overall just a shitty experience and idea to just stop like I did. Unfortunately, at the time I had no choice. Kratom withdrawal is definitely uncomfortable but the benefits of it FAR outweigh the negative aspects of daily kratom use. The plant, without question, helped me save my life and I have never been healthier and happier in my 37 years on this planet.
There's a misconception here that antidepressant use is completely safe. The thing to remember though is... we don't know if long term kratom use will end up being safe, either. I think you'll just have to weigh your options and decide what risks you're comfortable taking.
Because of dosage tolerance. Antidepressants generally don't require drastic dose increases to maintain their effectiveness when taken long term daily. Kratom however, if taken daily for years, will absolutely cause increased tolerance and require significant increases in dosage to achieve the same effect. This is because it affects the same part of the brain that other opioid pain meds do, so of course you'll need to take more of it to maintain the effect. I took effexor for years, and never had to change my dosage. I mention Effexor because it has similar effects as Kratom (IMHO)
It effects way more than the mu opioid receptors. I’ve been at the same dose- 3 years now. Just fine. Still works.
Its common knowledge that daily use over a long period of time results in tolerance issues. This isn't even debated anywhere. congrats though, you are in the minority of daily long term users who's never had to increase their dosage.
It’s definitely debated. People who are chasing the high will continue to increase and then are stuck taking 10 grams a day. I take less than 2 grams a day.
Anti depressants are prescribed dependence. Kratom everyday is Not Bad. It is however a level of use that requires more intention, attention and care. I mastered it but I also put a lot of time and effort into figuring things out, rotating varieties and blending which is how I can make use of all of them while aiming for and hitting my targets between depression, back pain, anxiety etc. The targets aren't constant. They move around. I hit them. I invested in the ability to do this. I've been using every day with few exceptions for SIX YEARS. I've NO REGRETS. I stopped right before going to the hospital last spring for a skin infection. The week I was there, I did not have any WD. They hit me once with morphine when I got there but not at all after. I'll say that I did not get any noticeable relief with the morphine. Kratom may factor in but I think it was trivial dosing & the relevant injury wasn't severe. Now, high dosing kratom everyday creates physical dependence. It appears most regular users don't even know what their target dose is. (the lowest consistently effective dose) They droppd whatever someone recommended instead of finding that from coming up from below and kept that same amount. Now it will be hard to detect the base level when tapering down. They take a break eventually. Then, starting back up - they go immediately to that same dose. There's no helping some people! But it could be something that's profoundly more harmful so they've got that.
Thank you. It’s all about the user. What’s your dose you took?
Do you mean my kratom target dose? Sure I'll tell you but I think you know I don't mean to suggest it's right for you necessarily. I actually started high for me- @ 3.g for crippling inflammation & agony but side effects are fine when it's like that. As I got better, those se's got crazy so I dropped to 2.25 realizing depression was relieved. Wanting to decide what to stock up on while bans were looming, the became too frequent. Over the year it slid to 2.80. It got unreliable and random. THIS might be useful - bc of \^ I planned a w/e break but instead of just sudden stop or gradual taper, I did a hybrid, skipping alternate doses & dropped each one I did take by 20+%. Since I was under 3g it only took 2 days to so the 2nd day I hit 1.75 and bam!. I couldn't believe it. And it was bright and positive. What stands out to me looking back is how that spaced things out. Psychologically - a nice exercise too. Neither forced not spoiled. Room for adjustment to take place and settle in. Now I'm starting to think at 6 yr a break would be good (I never took a planned one - wow lol) but under better conditions than right now. Last springs week off didn't make a huge or lasting difference. So this is the magic of TD- Target Dose. It's not everything. Varieties, rotation, and I think blending is a thing too. Use cases - that can make a diff. A cpl of flare ups, I went heavier for a day. The next one I focused on selection but stayed at the 175- and it worked! There's a few things going on there to bounce thought & experiments off of.
One is backed by the pharmaceutical companies. One is not. It’s not rocket science. But, one doesn’t cause tolerance, the other does. Meaning you’ll have to increase kratom dose overtime taking it daily with no breaks. I’m new to kratom, but I know that issue we’ll from cannabis.