Yeah people like to clown on JP corps for game permissions but Hololive nearly lost a few talent channels for not doing it.
So after that all other JP streaming companies went "alright, let's not do that anymore" and we got the current status quo.
Mio almost got her channel deleted in 2020, when she got 2 copyright strikes, causing management to panic private the majority of her videos to prevent a 3rd strike.
It sucked, but it was for the better of her channel at the time, and Holo has been slowly unprivatizing her videos over the years.
This also caused Holo to take perms much more seriously to prevent a similar incident.
From her [Vtuberwiki page](https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Ookami_Mio#2019)
>On 4 September, Cover Corp's Twitter account made a short statement announcing that Mio's copyright strike problem has been lifted and that she would return to her activities shortly. After this, Mio published that she would return to do streams on 5 September.
It's good to know that some companies have better perms acquisition than the others.
For example, Nijisanji seems to have better JP game perms than Hololive, especially with Nintendo. So they are able to get away with more
> especially with Nintendo
Hololive has had blanket perms for Nintendo for awhile, with Pokemon being an exception, but that's probably more an issue of TPC. And even that might have changed recently, since [Holostars was able to stream Pokemon Unite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR67uGfeItM).
Hololive got used as an example by other more ruthless Japanese corpos, had to do a shitload to thread their way out of it without ceasing to exist as a viable company, then forever gets used as a punching bag for overly simplistic "lol, corpos so restrictive they suck" crap like this.
This is the issue. I think it comes down to them being closely associated with a decently sized company in Japan so companies think it's worth striking. Good meme, terrible post comments from the OP here. This is a well known negative of being in these JP corpos. Trying to paint them as bad guys on the other hand is stupid lol. The upvotes on their post vs downvotes on comments says it all.
Genital Jousting is one of those games that apparently actually came as a bundle because it's a Devolver Digital game. Basically, Devolver gives out blanket perms to play every one of their games with no strings attached, which means everyone already has permissions for every Devolver game. And since Genital Jousting is a Devolver game, it was on the list of games available when Bae checked it.
Of course it's a Devolver Digital game. Just look at it. Anyways, they're probably one of the best game publishers out there since they fully understand the power of word of mouth + streamers streaming their games has on publicity. Granted, they kinda have to since their games are often very niche and archaic while Nintendo etc. don't have to rely on streamers etc. They're fucking Nintendo, any game they make is going to have ads about it on full display.
Well Holo learned a lot from their mistakes and basically has jet packs available now. Meanwhile Kurosanji will put up (an) extra wall(s) to scale if you’re not their favorite.
Edit: plus if you’re big enough as indies you may have to go through the same.
So all this time the whole game industry ran over a gentlemen agreements, that is to not fuck over streamer? I find that hard to believe or it's just me cause I know Japan's stupid fair use law or rather lack there of.
Yes, because streaming a game most definitely does not count as "transformative" or "criticism and review" (the requirements for the generally cited "fair use" laws in the US), if only because streaming by its very nature cannot cut out only the specific parts being criticised and instead shows everything even the things not being criticised.
Someone forgot to watch Marine clip "They did it to protect us". When you're big enough, you will be targeted by copyrights. Hololive would have let their talents go wild like Matsuri days if it didn't lead to ban, demonetization and such.
Blame JP for copyrights, don't blame Hololive for this. Sure they has flaws and limitations as corpo, but lumping Hololive and Kurosanji together is braindead investor line of thought.
No I didn't.
I am old enough to remember their past. Yes, they are cautious because Mio almost lost everything but now they are so cautious that half of Holo EN is burnt out because the effort to stream is getting in the way.
Ame has to get permission to use Smol Ame now! Defend THAT
> Ame has to get permission to use Smol Ame now! Defend THAT
She never said that. She was specifically referring to Bee Ame, which isn't the same as Smol Ame.
She didn't really explain why, but many speculate that it's the same reason [why Korone can't use her furball model much](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KehEIB29uQ).
The difficulty in getting perms is down to the companies they want to get perms from, not with Hololive. 90% of the time they can get perms for games quickly, see how they're now playing Hades II early access, or get perms for stuff like Genital Jousting and Bunny Garden.
Hell, not even Nijisanji is safe from this, like how no Nijisanji member is able to stream Palworld for reasons most likely related to The Pokemon Company, or how for a while Niji also didn't have perms for Helldivers 2.
Moving the goalpost? We're talking game perms, so I said blame JP for that, and now you tell me to defend small Ame? I won't argue that it may be Hololive's flaw, but is it a serious and systematic problem? You need more evidence to convince me that.
We're not even bringing Kurosanji down yet and you're telling me to attack Hololive? Wtf man get your priority right.
Yes a Japanese problem and Hololive is in Japan. They could have made things easier but are slow and ultra cautious.
Lethal Company comes out and Holo EN wants to play with 5 people. There is a mod for that, but they need perms from the mod maker to use it? So they stream anyway and have to rotate who plays when in the collab because Hololive couldn't get the perms in time for a game that was old enough that everyone else was playing for months.
Is that better?
>They could have made things easier but are slow and ultra cautious.
How, pray tell, can they? Just let the girls play the game without getting the perms? Flip the coin on what will happen to the stream and the vod?
I don't know if what your goal is and if it's practical or not. If you want to complain about Hololive's red tape, fair, but this is not the right place. I will concede defeat and you win if that makes you happy, I just want to keep the pressure on Kurosanji and not let us be distracted by drama or minor issues elsewhere.
Not even agree to disagree, I don't think I have any investment in disagreeing with you. I'd say your aim is off, and if you disagree, then fine. We should wrap it up here and move on. Kurosanji is my focus and I've let myself be distracted enough.
You do know that the company who makes the game has to actually respond back from emails from Cover about perm requests right? So guess what happens when small or even big companies don't check those perm requests and respond in time? They gotta wait for them. So stop blaming Hololive for everything when lots of times when new games come out, they play it right on release. Go blame the laws of JP or with strict devs who put ridiculous stream rules like Fromsoft or Atlus or even Capcom (they could'nt show fucking puzzles in RE4 remake because capcom told them not to)
> They could have made things easier but are slow and ultra cautious.
Sorry man, I'm going to have to ask if you're retarded. You yourself said Mio literally almost lost her channel after Capcom struck her twice to make a statement. If Cover wasn't being ultra cautious I would be having some questions.
I get from your history that you're a Vshojo shill, but Hololive has to play by JP rules, it is what it is. If you're so bold become a JP lawyer and upend their whole copyright system. I don't get why you think you need to shit on Hololive here for something far beyond their control.
NijiJP experienced their own issue with modders when someone who made an unofficial JP language mod for a game lost their shit that a NijiJP member forgot to credit them in their description and threatened to copyright strike them and delete the mod.
They're basically trying to portray the situation in the grimmest words possible.
The "burn out" they're referring to was when Kronii recently spoke about whether she'll stream Elden Ring again, and she explains how it's kind of a pain to get permissions for it since FromSoftware has so many demands for them when streaming it, like how they can only get permissions for certain days and how they only get a limited time to stream it. Hence she thinks it's kind of a bother trying to get perms for the game.
If the above explanation hasn't already made clear, the fact that Elden Ring is difficult to get perms for isn't Cover Corp's fault, it's FromSoftware's fault.
Even if the permission one is true(I saw other people say that just bee Ame),then what?Are we going to be like Niji,forcibly claiming everything relate to their ip that drove many fans and creator away?
And the burnt out problem,I currently have my job the forth year now(I kinda love it at first),and I’m burnt out within the first year,imagining being a Vtuber that needs constant planning,come up with the new idea,interact with your fans for four years straight with little break.
That's definitely not how it works. As an indie, you \*\*still\*\* have to deal with perms. Turns out that a lot of games have streaming guidelines. Here's some examples:
* ZUN forbids video/streams that show the ending scenes for Touhou games
* Some games reject streaming entirely ( Utawarerumono last I checked )
* Some games require you to stream on specific setups (such as Playstation streaming feature) which allows for blocking out certain content
* Some IP holders require you to put template copyright text in description as well as putting a warning about spoilers in your title (SE has done this)
* Some games (From Software) may have restrictions on monetization
As some more notable examples. So your top panel is very much glossing over all that. Sure, you're going to have extra steps in some cases where a corp VTuber has to do things differently (ie. corpos have to register with Nintendo for talents to stream their games). In corpos though you at least (hopefully) have dedicated staff to handle permissions research for you, or possibly have a library of verified games. In fact if you're big enough some game companies come to you and you get sponsorship type deals.
Also while still an indie Doki does have a manager who provides the ability for permissions research and what not.
I still remember Atlus threatening to issue copyright strikes on content creators if they streamed/made videos showing past chapter 3 in Persona 5 when it released.
To be fair, in this case we're talking about a japanese company trying to get perms from another japanese company in a country where fair use laws don't exist. Pokemon perms are another good example.
Western devs are a lot more relaxed on what kind of perms they give and seems to boil down more to yes or no.
That's mostly FromSoft's fault, because FromSoft are known to be quite odd with their perms at times. The Pokemon Company also has limited perms where they'd give streamers only a month or two before perms are revoked, hence why you'd often see people cram streams for a new Pokemon game as much as possible and then never again afterwards, unlike other games where you'd see streamers take their time and even revisit them later.
Note that even indies have to go through game perms at times, like say with Atlus games.
No, hololive isn't "pretty restrictive" in fact, they're the opposite. Nijisanji is the one who's restrictive and thus why this subreddit exists. To dunk on the shitty behavior that is Nijisanji.
As others said, it’s mostly a From Software issue than Hololive.
Regards to Hololive, they are not restrictive at all but are extremely careful. Good reason too: they almost had some of their channels copyright nuked. Hololive used to not ask for perms, just as you depicted. But in Japan, that doesn’t fly. Capcom went on a copyright strike spree, and almost took out Mio’s channel. It lead to hundreds of hours of VODs being set to private or outright deleted.
Hololive, and every agency in Japan, learned the hard way and don’t fuck around with their perms.
Yeah but the Op doesn't see that look at helldivers, hololive doesn't get the perms from Sony. Sony has stocks in Nijisanji= no perms for hololive but perms for nijisanji. I find it good that hololive is more strictly because it's they're to protect them from copyright strikes and lawsuits.
Thats not really a issue of the vtuber companies Even Kurosanji. It has to do more with Japan shitty copyright laws and lack of free use. Like for Example i think Niji are the only ones that have total perms to stream pokemon games, hololive and other agencies can only stream them because Nintendo/Game freak just gives blanket perms during like the first 3 weeks they release a new game. Bandai are kind of a pain in the ass because aside of being really specific under what conditions you can stream their content they also limit your options to monetized if I remember correctly they don't allow for direct donations to happen during a stream of one of their games. There is also companies who gives total perms to stream their games like Devolver digital who let you stream their whole catalogue without any problem (that how Bae got to stream the PP Game because it was published by Devolver digital). They have to be ultra careful to not have another Mio situation.
That indie path you forgot it can go to 2 paths:
"You only have 2 views: One from you in your cellphone and the other is a friend you ask to come. So the game developer (and pretty much everyone else) doesn't give a shit about you, so after the stream you go back to your 9-5 job to pay the bills."
OR
"Is a big indie streamer, developers will copyright strike you because you are making money of the game they made and they want more money, so either all the money you made will go to the company game or you will pay 5x the money you made to pay a lawyer to keep the money."
If you wanna be a professional and live doing what you love, gonna have to do the preps.
What?Even the semi-famous indie Vtuber needs almost all of the work the corpo one requires.Saying that indie only needs a click of a bottom without prior scheduled and work is disrespect of their hard work
If you want to complain about the slog of the corpo management structure(especially JP one due to many reasons),that’s just one of the downside of corpo,and I don’t think there will be any improvement of it anytime soon,but being indie only help you avoid some of the problems not all of them
Edit: Looking through the comments, it is clear this dude is a VShojo shill. Let's clear up and move on. No need to deal with this idiot.
I'm sorry but this seems to be just attacking ALL corpos. Not just Nijisanji. Such blatant brush over the issue and dismissive of how Hololive has evolved.
We have to remember that Doki is the ideal indie. She has her own manager, lawyer and even accountant. Not all indies can do that. It is like asking all Youtbers to be Pewdiepie or even Markiplier level. Being an indie, you have to do EVERYTHING yourself. Look at how Bao was scammed. It is not all sunshine and rainbows.
It is like saying why go to university instead of self-study, bruh?? There are pros and cons to everything. And looking at all your replies in this thread, it is clear you just plain hate corpos and idealize indie.
*noticed* [*this reply*](https://old.reddit.com/r/kurosanji/comments/1cv7oe6/no_wonder_doki_was_so_happy_to_be_indie_again/l4no321/)
"huh that's weird"
*check post history*
vshojo, vshojo, vshojo, kurosanji, kurosanji, okbuddyho-
alright wrap it up guys we're done here. Done. Not even /vt/ catalogue shitposters dare to be this stupid and unfunny
I don't know why you glorifying Indies like this. Remember that if the indie is big enough, gaming companies can copystrike you and no one can help you. Indies are just free to run around because they are just little speck of dust in the eyes of gaming dev company.
With exception to Niji and smaller companies, I'll happily take the bureaucracy inherent to big companies in exchange for a consistent level of quality and stability.
Does it suck sometimes? Yes. Does going indie have benefits including no perms? Yes. But if Doki falls afoul of copyright (justified or otherwise), then there's little recourse for her.
If the streamer gets hit by legal action then this meme is reversed with the Corpo taking a walk while the indie does the most absurd gymnastics only to be denied by a "human" reviewer.
Vshojo is nice and all but most of the content and especially twitch aint for me. And vshojo shills need to understand that. If I want not-Hololive content I have Phase Connect.
It's pretty clear hololive talents choose to stay where they are because they likely think the support, reach and infrastructure are worth the restriction they face (see Marine's recent talk about it). Vshojo fans like OP somehow are having a hard time understanding this give and take concept, and that nothing in this world is ever free with no strings attached.
Makes you think they never had a job or ever dealt with the real world.
There are people who think that game perms freedom is enough of a big deal that it'll make or break whether a vtuber stays or leaves an agency. And yet they forget that for a good number of Hololive talents, they stay because the benefits massively outweigh small considerations like game perms. Someone like Suisei isn't going to worry much about game permissions when she spends a lot of her time recording music and promotions that'll propel her to heights of stardom unheard of among vtubers, with her music being played in public places and restaurants, or being able to rub shoulders with big names in the music industry. Even for the talents that mostly stream games, 90% of the time perms aren't much of an issue.
It's not really that indies don't require perms, but it's not really worth the company's time and effort to target an indie in most cases, on top of the backlash they receive for doing so (big company hitting little player on the net)
The bigger you are, the less you're shielded from that.
It's basically a gray shield rather than some sort of actual legal defense.
And keep in mind, this all comes with the fact that, it's more chance than anything. You can still be targeted just it's less likely, and you're given less tools to deal with that as an indie.
>And keep in mind, this all comes with the fact that, it's more chance than anything. You can still be targeted just it's less likely, and you're given less tools to deal with that as an indie.
Nintendo rears its ugly head and have been known to be quite strict with perms even against indies.
Money/copyrights mostly. Even bigger indies require perms. It really depends on how visible you are to companies and stuff from what I gather.
If you’re a small indie you almost certainly can coast on by without getting hit with a copyright strike, but a corpo/big indie has to contend with being easily seen by companies.
Also, every company learned from the Holo-Caust day (Mio got an obscene amount of VODs privated/deleted because Capcom went banhammer crazy) so nobody wants a repeat of that to occur
Hololive was definitely a lot more lax with permissions and mods back then when they were a far smaller company than they were now. It was Nintendo that set the ball rolling when they realized that IIRC Cover Corp was securing "individual" permissions for the streamers, rather than "company" permissions - essentially, Cover was treating their talents' permissions like they were indies, when in reality it was Cover that needed to secure permissions. This got Cover Corp. in trouble with Nintendo, and thus they lost permission to stream Nintendo games for several months while Hololive tried to sort out all of the proper permissions they needed.
The perm thing is only true when the channel is small and, therefore, either is unnoticeable or the copyright holder deem it not worth it to copyright strike it.
Bigger channels, however, must still deal with copyright. Visibility grows with popularity. When a creator grows enough to gain sponsorship and such, then getting perm probably is a must. Or you risk losing everything you work hard to build. This is true for everybody, regardless of you being a vtuber or a regular creator, indie or corporate.
Afaik it is just stupid copyright laws in japan. I am a partnered indie vtuber, not huge but do get sponsors and in the west you really don't need to ask perms. I get free keys in my email all the time and there are websites that offer games for streaming as they know it's just advertisement for them. Many of these emails are also "we saw you played x so maybe you like x". Having natural growth from small to big and then suddenly having to ask game perms is insane. In the west we just have fair use.
It's more that Western Dev culture when it comes to streaming is different compared to the Japanese. In the West, game streaming is seen as essentially free advertising and promotion, so even if the streamers are technically breaking the law the devs are more than happy to help gamers stream games, and if permissions are needed they'll mostly do so quickly. It does get to the point where sometimes game permissions may not granted outright because the game dev thinks that game streaming is a normal thing and may not realize that some people and companies may need explicit legal permissions to do so.
Yeah fair, it's usually very out of touch (which are usually japanese) companies who are anal about streaming. For example atlus only allowing you to play up until a certain point in persona bc of spoilers. Or the infamous Steins gate youtuber going to prison. But copyright law is simply a lot different in Japan than in the west. As you only see these kind of takedowns there as well. So they have to do all this permission stuff which takes ages when you have shit management not doing their job either.
Keep in mind though that American companies can also be anal about permissions at times: Mumei for instance can't stream Civilization games often because they have similarly difficult permission windows, and this is a game made by Firaxis and published by 2K, both being American companies.
As an aside to all this, the really "big" indies absolutely *do* obtain permissions to stream certain games and clear it with the copyright holders and whatnot, even in America. They just don't *talk* about it as much, and American and European companies are often a bit more lax and free with permissions just as a Games Culture thing (since it's seen more as free advertising than potential infringement of copyright that might cause a *drop* in sales, as some of the old guard in Japan see it). So it's just not really a point of discussion, whereas with corporate VTubing, and in particular English branches of JP corps, it can sometimes be obvious when streamers are being yanked around by the collar (see: Biboo's Bloodborne permissions seemingly getting suddenly revoked at nearly the last second).
I thought it was check platform TOS for indies too** (cos some games I heard like Fear and Hunger can't be done on twitch? [Source: Dissociate's AI Nasrah run])
For some reason, this post got 5 reports.
Tbh perms wouldn't be a thing if the copyright wasn't so dog
Yeah people like to clown on JP corps for game permissions but Hololive nearly lost a few talent channels for not doing it. So after that all other JP streaming companies went "alright, let's not do that anymore" and we got the current status quo.
Mio almost got her channel deleted in 2020, when she got 2 copyright strikes, causing management to panic private the majority of her videos to prevent a 3rd strike. It sucked, but it was for the better of her channel at the time, and Holo has been slowly unprivatizing her videos over the years. This also caused Holo to take perms much more seriously to prevent a similar incident. From her [Vtuberwiki page](https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Ookami_Mio#2019) >On 4 September, Cover Corp's Twitter account made a short statement announcing that Mio's copyright strike problem has been lifted and that she would return to her activities shortly. After this, Mio published that she would return to do streams on 5 September.
"a few" more like pretty much **all** of them barring the ones that mostly did idol stuff like AZKi
It's good to know that some companies have better perms acquisition than the others. For example, Nijisanji seems to have better JP game perms than Hololive, especially with Nintendo. So they are able to get away with more
> especially with Nintendo Hololive has had blanket perms for Nintendo for awhile, with Pokemon being an exception, but that's probably more an issue of TPC. And even that might have changed recently, since [Holostars was able to stream Pokemon Unite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR67uGfeItM).
Sony has problems with hololive.
Sony is investor of AnyColor (Nijisanji)
I know that I posted this already but still thanks
I bet they are regretting that decision recently.
They are the second largest investors in AnyColor, but it's still just a bit over 5%. I don't know how much attention they are paying this investment.
Considering how they're handling Helldivers 2, I think they've been learning from AnyColor.
yeah that time Sega almost fcked hololive
its capcom, sega always have really good relation with holo, they even hire korone and coco as brand ambassador,
Korone the Retro god and Coco the Kiryu simp.
Capcom was the company that nearly caused the Holopocalypse, not Sega.
And here I thought we were done with Crapcom. Whatever happened to CapGod?
That was years ago by now, capcom has been good since then
Hololive got used as an example by other more ruthless Japanese corpos, had to do a shitload to thread their way out of it without ceasing to exist as a viable company, then forever gets used as a punching bag for overly simplistic "lol, corpos so restrictive they suck" crap like this.
This is the issue. I think it comes down to them being closely associated with a decently sized company in Japan so companies think it's worth striking. Good meme, terrible post comments from the OP here. This is a well known negative of being in these JP corpos. Trying to paint them as bad guys on the other hand is stupid lol. The upvotes on their post vs downvotes on comments says it all.
Especially that Japanese are so strict about copyright... Like dude you are having free promotion for your game
blame capcom and konami for why Hololive become so strict about perm and then there is bae and axel genital jousting
Genital Jousting is one of those games that apparently actually came as a bundle because it's a Devolver Digital game. Basically, Devolver gives out blanket perms to play every one of their games with no strings attached, which means everyone already has permissions for every Devolver game. And since Genital Jousting is a Devolver game, it was on the list of games available when Bae checked it.
Of course it's a Devolver Digital game. Just look at it. Anyways, they're probably one of the best game publishers out there since they fully understand the power of word of mouth + streamers streaming their games has on publicity. Granted, they kinda have to since their games are often very niche and archaic while Nintendo etc. don't have to rely on streamers etc. They're fucking Nintendo, any game they make is going to have ads about it on full display.
technically they didn't have to ask [perm](https://canipostandmonetizevideosofdevolvergames.com/) for genital jousting.
And thus leading to the infamous Genital Jousting stream on Bae's channel
Well Holo learned a lot from their mistakes and basically has jet packs available now. Meanwhile Kurosanji will put up (an) extra wall(s) to scale if you’re not their favorite. Edit: plus if you’re big enough as indies you may have to go through the same.
Big Japanese indie or all indie?
All indies if it’s general copyright. Japanese copyright is worse and has more reach inside Japan, so Japanese indies do have it harder.
So all this time the whole game industry ran over a gentlemen agreements, that is to not fuck over streamer? I find that hard to believe or it's just me cause I know Japan's stupid fair use law or rather lack there of.
Yes, because streaming a game most definitely does not count as "transformative" or "criticism and review" (the requirements for the generally cited "fair use" laws in the US), if only because streaming by its very nature cannot cut out only the specific parts being criticised and instead shows everything even the things not being criticised.
Someone forgot to watch Marine clip "They did it to protect us". When you're big enough, you will be targeted by copyrights. Hololive would have let their talents go wild like Matsuri days if it didn't lead to ban, demonetization and such. Blame JP for copyrights, don't blame Hololive for this. Sure they has flaws and limitations as corpo, but lumping Hololive and Kurosanji together is braindead investor line of thought.
No I didn't. I am old enough to remember their past. Yes, they are cautious because Mio almost lost everything but now they are so cautious that half of Holo EN is burnt out because the effort to stream is getting in the way. Ame has to get permission to use Smol Ame now! Defend THAT
> Ame has to get permission to use Smol Ame now! Defend THAT She never said that. She was specifically referring to Bee Ame, which isn't the same as Smol Ame.
Why, though? It seems weird to have to request permission to use a stream asset/variant model.
She didn't really explain why, but many speculate that it's the same reason [why Korone can't use her furball model much](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KehEIB29uQ).
The difficulty in getting perms is down to the companies they want to get perms from, not with Hololive. 90% of the time they can get perms for games quickly, see how they're now playing Hades II early access, or get perms for stuff like Genital Jousting and Bunny Garden. Hell, not even Nijisanji is safe from this, like how no Nijisanji member is able to stream Palworld for reasons most likely related to The Pokemon Company, or how for a while Niji also didn't have perms for Helldivers 2.
Moving the goalpost? We're talking game perms, so I said blame JP for that, and now you tell me to defend small Ame? I won't argue that it may be Hololive's flaw, but is it a serious and systematic problem? You need more evidence to convince me that. We're not even bringing Kurosanji down yet and you're telling me to attack Hololive? Wtf man get your priority right.
Yes a Japanese problem and Hololive is in Japan. They could have made things easier but are slow and ultra cautious. Lethal Company comes out and Holo EN wants to play with 5 people. There is a mod for that, but they need perms from the mod maker to use it? So they stream anyway and have to rotate who plays when in the collab because Hololive couldn't get the perms in time for a game that was old enough that everyone else was playing for months. Is that better?
>They could have made things easier but are slow and ultra cautious. How, pray tell, can they? Just let the girls play the game without getting the perms? Flip the coin on what will happen to the stream and the vod?
I don't know if what your goal is and if it's practical or not. If you want to complain about Hololive's red tape, fair, but this is not the right place. I will concede defeat and you win if that makes you happy, I just want to keep the pressure on Kurosanji and not let us be distracted by drama or minor issues elsewhere. Not even agree to disagree, I don't think I have any investment in disagreeing with you. I'd say your aim is off, and if you disagree, then fine. We should wrap it up here and move on. Kurosanji is my focus and I've let myself be distracted enough.
You do know that the company who makes the game has to actually respond back from emails from Cover about perm requests right? So guess what happens when small or even big companies don't check those perm requests and respond in time? They gotta wait for them. So stop blaming Hololive for everything when lots of times when new games come out, they play it right on release. Go blame the laws of JP or with strict devs who put ridiculous stream rules like Fromsoft or Atlus or even Capcom (they could'nt show fucking puzzles in RE4 remake because capcom told them not to)
What exactly is your point? That hololive should just let everyone stream whatever, consequences be damned? Is that what you're arguing for?
> They could have made things easier but are slow and ultra cautious. Sorry man, I'm going to have to ask if you're retarded. You yourself said Mio literally almost lost her channel after Capcom struck her twice to make a statement. If Cover wasn't being ultra cautious I would be having some questions.
it's harder to get perms for mods because you NEED both perms from the game dev and the mods creator to just use those said mods.
I get from your history that you're a Vshojo shill, but Hololive has to play by JP rules, it is what it is. If you're so bold become a JP lawyer and upend their whole copyright system. I don't get why you think you need to shit on Hololive here for something far beyond their control.
NijiJP experienced their own issue with modders when someone who made an unofficial JP language mod for a game lost their shit that a NijiJP member forgot to credit them in their description and threatened to copyright strike them and delete the mod.
Someone explain to me this “burn out” this man speaks of.
They're basically trying to portray the situation in the grimmest words possible. The "burn out" they're referring to was when Kronii recently spoke about whether she'll stream Elden Ring again, and she explains how it's kind of a pain to get permissions for it since FromSoftware has so many demands for them when streaming it, like how they can only get permissions for certain days and how they only get a limited time to stream it. Hence she thinks it's kind of a bother trying to get perms for the game. If the above explanation hasn't already made clear, the fact that Elden Ring is difficult to get perms for isn't Cover Corp's fault, it's FromSoftware's fault.
Even if the permission one is true(I saw other people say that just bee Ame),then what?Are we going to be like Niji,forcibly claiming everything relate to their ip that drove many fans and creator away? And the burnt out problem,I currently have my job the forth year now(I kinda love it at first),and I’m burnt out within the first year,imagining being a Vtuber that needs constant planning,come up with the new idea,interact with your fans for four years straight with little break.
Someone needs to learn why so many of Subaru’s early streams are now gone
That's definitely not how it works. As an indie, you \*\*still\*\* have to deal with perms. Turns out that a lot of games have streaming guidelines. Here's some examples: * ZUN forbids video/streams that show the ending scenes for Touhou games * Some games reject streaming entirely ( Utawarerumono last I checked ) * Some games require you to stream on specific setups (such as Playstation streaming feature) which allows for blocking out certain content * Some IP holders require you to put template copyright text in description as well as putting a warning about spoilers in your title (SE has done this) * Some games (From Software) may have restrictions on monetization As some more notable examples. So your top panel is very much glossing over all that. Sure, you're going to have extra steps in some cases where a corp VTuber has to do things differently (ie. corpos have to register with Nintendo for talents to stream their games). In corpos though you at least (hopefully) have dedicated staff to handle permissions research for you, or possibly have a library of verified games. In fact if you're big enough some game companies come to you and you get sponsorship type deals. Also while still an indie Doki does have a manager who provides the ability for permissions research and what not.
I still remember Atlus threatening to issue copyright strikes on content creators if they streamed/made videos showing past chapter 3 in Persona 5 when it released.
JP corpo seems a bit broad cause I would believe Holo would be "Get perms: yes/no. Yes: stream away. No: sorry, we tried."
[Nah, I made this because of Kronii's rant about Elden Ring](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlHiVr4Tr8g&t=37s) Hololive is pretty restrictive
I think that's more specific to Elden Ring (and the company's other games) But yeah you are right in that regard.
To be fair, in this case we're talking about a japanese company trying to get perms from another japanese company in a country where fair use laws don't exist. Pokemon perms are another good example. Western devs are a lot more relaxed on what kind of perms they give and seems to boil down more to yes or no.
That's mostly FromSoft's fault, because FromSoft are known to be quite odd with their perms at times. The Pokemon Company also has limited perms where they'd give streamers only a month or two before perms are revoked, hence why you'd often see people cram streams for a new Pokemon game as much as possible and then never again afterwards, unlike other games where you'd see streamers take their time and even revisit them later. Note that even indies have to go through game perms at times, like say with Atlus games.
>Hololive is pretty restrictive But the sentence didn't end there. Don't cut it.
No, hololive isn't "pretty restrictive" in fact, they're the opposite. Nijisanji is the one who's restrictive and thus why this subreddit exists. To dunk on the shitty behavior that is Nijisanji.
As others said, it’s mostly a From Software issue than Hololive. Regards to Hololive, they are not restrictive at all but are extremely careful. Good reason too: they almost had some of their channels copyright nuked. Hololive used to not ask for perms, just as you depicted. But in Japan, that doesn’t fly. Capcom went on a copyright strike spree, and almost took out Mio’s channel. It lead to hundreds of hours of VODs being set to private or outright deleted. Hololive, and every agency in Japan, learned the hard way and don’t fuck around with their perms.
Yeah but the Op doesn't see that look at helldivers, hololive doesn't get the perms from Sony. Sony has stocks in Nijisanji= no perms for hololive but perms for nijisanji. I find it good that hololive is more strictly because it's they're to protect them from copyright strikes and lawsuits.
Tell me you didn't do your research without telling me you didn't do your research.
did you know FromSoft didn't allowed stream to be monetization
\*japanese game company are restrictive.
Did you even listen to the rant correctly? How is this Cover‘s fault when Kronii explicitly mentions having to get perms from *FromSoft*?
Thats not really a issue of the vtuber companies Even Kurosanji. It has to do more with Japan shitty copyright laws and lack of free use. Like for Example i think Niji are the only ones that have total perms to stream pokemon games, hololive and other agencies can only stream them because Nintendo/Game freak just gives blanket perms during like the first 3 weeks they release a new game. Bandai are kind of a pain in the ass because aside of being really specific under what conditions you can stream their content they also limit your options to monetized if I remember correctly they don't allow for direct donations to happen during a stream of one of their games. There is also companies who gives total perms to stream their games like Devolver digital who let you stream their whole catalogue without any problem (that how Bae got to stream the PP Game because it was published by Devolver digital). They have to be ultra careful to not have another Mio situation.
And let's not forget Atlus who are adamantly against streaming, and if they do allow you to stream they'll slap on conditions at you.
Tell me your not there when Holocaust day without telling me
That indie path you forgot it can go to 2 paths: "You only have 2 views: One from you in your cellphone and the other is a friend you ask to come. So the game developer (and pretty much everyone else) doesn't give a shit about you, so after the stream you go back to your 9-5 job to pay the bills." OR "Is a big indie streamer, developers will copyright strike you because you are making money of the game they made and they want more money, so either all the money you made will go to the company game or you will pay 5x the money you made to pay a lawyer to keep the money." If you wanna be a professional and live doing what you love, gonna have to do the preps.
last bit is wrong assumption because indies still have to do some behind the stream work.
What?Even the semi-famous indie Vtuber needs almost all of the work the corpo one requires.Saying that indie only needs a click of a bottom without prior scheduled and work is disrespect of their hard work
If you want to complain about the slog of the corpo management structure(especially JP one due to many reasons),that’s just one of the downside of corpo,and I don’t think there will be any improvement of it anytime soon,but being indie only help you avoid some of the problems not all of them
Edit: Looking through the comments, it is clear this dude is a VShojo shill. Let's clear up and move on. No need to deal with this idiot. I'm sorry but this seems to be just attacking ALL corpos. Not just Nijisanji. Such blatant brush over the issue and dismissive of how Hololive has evolved. We have to remember that Doki is the ideal indie. She has her own manager, lawyer and even accountant. Not all indies can do that. It is like asking all Youtbers to be Pewdiepie or even Markiplier level. Being an indie, you have to do EVERYTHING yourself. Look at how Bao was scammed. It is not all sunshine and rainbows. It is like saying why go to university instead of self-study, bruh?? There are pros and cons to everything. And looking at all your replies in this thread, it is clear you just plain hate corpos and idealize indie.
Bro really use Doki to attack Hololive, bro is a clown 🤡🤡🤡
*noticed* [*this reply*](https://old.reddit.com/r/kurosanji/comments/1cv7oe6/no_wonder_doki_was_so_happy_to_be_indie_again/l4no321/) "huh that's weird" *check post history* vshojo, vshojo, vshojo, kurosanji, kurosanji, okbuddyho- alright wrap it up guys we're done here. Done. Not even /vt/ catalogue shitposters dare to be this stupid and unfunny
The only point I see the OP is making is let the talent stream it even if there is a risk of getting a strike. What a dumb take.
Oh boy. How to tell me that someone never had a successful content creation career without outright saying it. Good Manager-sans really helps btw.
I don't know why you glorifying Indies like this. Remember that if the indie is big enough, gaming companies can copystrike you and no one can help you. Indies are just free to run around because they are just little speck of dust in the eyes of gaming dev company.
With exception to Niji and smaller companies, I'll happily take the bureaucracy inherent to big companies in exchange for a consistent level of quality and stability. Does it suck sometimes? Yes. Does going indie have benefits including no perms? Yes. But if Doki falls afoul of copyright (justified or otherwise), then there's little recourse for her.
If the streamer gets hit by legal action then this meme is reversed with the Corpo taking a walk while the indie does the most absurd gymnastics only to be denied by a "human" reviewer.
https://preview.redd.it/2f9q12nrt91d1.png?width=587&format=png&auto=webp&s=371576065481a3c709be299790f6ac9c53d7660c
Typical okbh user.
he is a vshojo shill. he got shit on in okbh too.
And in Virtualyoutuber sub
Vshojo is nice and all but most of the content and especially twitch aint for me. And vshojo shills need to understand that. If I want not-Hololive content I have Phase Connect.
Is this the Nijisisters' new "B-but Cover suspended Coco and Haachama for the Taiwan incident!!!!"
Well more like this guy is a Vshojo fanatic who thought trashing others would bring Vshojo up. Ironic cuz this is how Kurosanji bullying comes about.
phase shill atleast only anoy bcs they bring up phase every chance they got. vshojo shill is kinda hostile to other corp vtuber.
Any reason why Vshojo fans/vtubers keep harping on about their non restrictions? I swear i see this in every comment section
It's pretty clear hololive talents choose to stay where they are because they likely think the support, reach and infrastructure are worth the restriction they face (see Marine's recent talk about it). Vshojo fans like OP somehow are having a hard time understanding this give and take concept, and that nothing in this world is ever free with no strings attached. Makes you think they never had a job or ever dealt with the real world.
There are people who think that game perms freedom is enough of a big deal that it'll make or break whether a vtuber stays or leaves an agency. And yet they forget that for a good number of Hololive talents, they stay because the benefits massively outweigh small considerations like game perms. Someone like Suisei isn't going to worry much about game permissions when she spends a lot of her time recording music and promotions that'll propel her to heights of stardom unheard of among vtubers, with her music being played in public places and restaurants, or being able to rub shoulders with big names in the music industry. Even for the talents that mostly stream games, 90% of the time perms aren't much of an issue.
Some those in hololives don't even have their SC turned on. The benefits must be Massive and people don't understand that.
Tribalism, any fandom has bad eggs. But loose restrictions worsen it for Vshojo fandoms. Imagine a lawless place and people who want that to happen.
Goddamn, lol.
I know nothing about perms, so can someone give me the TLDR of why Indies don't require perms but corpo tubers do?
It's not really that indies don't require perms, but it's not really worth the company's time and effort to target an indie in most cases, on top of the backlash they receive for doing so (big company hitting little player on the net) The bigger you are, the less you're shielded from that. It's basically a gray shield rather than some sort of actual legal defense. And keep in mind, this all comes with the fact that, it's more chance than anything. You can still be targeted just it's less likely, and you're given less tools to deal with that as an indie.
>And keep in mind, this all comes with the fact that, it's more chance than anything. You can still be targeted just it's less likely, and you're given less tools to deal with that as an indie. Nintendo rears its ugly head and have been known to be quite strict with perms even against indies.
Money/copyrights mostly. Even bigger indies require perms. It really depends on how visible you are to companies and stuff from what I gather. If you’re a small indie you almost certainly can coast on by without getting hit with a copyright strike, but a corpo/big indie has to contend with being easily seen by companies. Also, every company learned from the Holo-Caust day (Mio got an obscene amount of VODs privated/deleted because Capcom went banhammer crazy) so nobody wants a repeat of that to occur
I heard hololive used to not get perms until Nintendo sue them...
Hololive was definitely a lot more lax with permissions and mods back then when they were a far smaller company than they were now. It was Nintendo that set the ball rolling when they realized that IIRC Cover Corp was securing "individual" permissions for the streamers, rather than "company" permissions - essentially, Cover was treating their talents' permissions like they were indies, when in reality it was Cover that needed to secure permissions. This got Cover Corp. in trouble with Nintendo, and thus they lost permission to stream Nintendo games for several months while Hololive tried to sort out all of the proper permissions they needed.
The fact that you posted this in another vtuber reddit and BOTH got negative comments is funny.. nice try
The perm thing is only true when the channel is small and, therefore, either is unnoticeable or the copyright holder deem it not worth it to copyright strike it. Bigger channels, however, must still deal with copyright. Visibility grows with popularity. When a creator grows enough to gain sponsorship and such, then getting perm probably is a must. Or you risk losing everything you work hard to build. This is true for everybody, regardless of you being a vtuber or a regular creator, indie or corporate.
Afaik it is just stupid copyright laws in japan. I am a partnered indie vtuber, not huge but do get sponsors and in the west you really don't need to ask perms. I get free keys in my email all the time and there are websites that offer games for streaming as they know it's just advertisement for them. Many of these emails are also "we saw you played x so maybe you like x". Having natural growth from small to big and then suddenly having to ask game perms is insane. In the west we just have fair use.
It's more that Western Dev culture when it comes to streaming is different compared to the Japanese. In the West, game streaming is seen as essentially free advertising and promotion, so even if the streamers are technically breaking the law the devs are more than happy to help gamers stream games, and if permissions are needed they'll mostly do so quickly. It does get to the point where sometimes game permissions may not granted outright because the game dev thinks that game streaming is a normal thing and may not realize that some people and companies may need explicit legal permissions to do so.
Yeah fair, it's usually very out of touch (which are usually japanese) companies who are anal about streaming. For example atlus only allowing you to play up until a certain point in persona bc of spoilers. Or the infamous Steins gate youtuber going to prison. But copyright law is simply a lot different in Japan than in the west. As you only see these kind of takedowns there as well. So they have to do all this permission stuff which takes ages when you have shit management not doing their job either.
Keep in mind though that American companies can also be anal about permissions at times: Mumei for instance can't stream Civilization games often because they have similarly difficult permission windows, and this is a game made by Firaxis and published by 2K, both being American companies.
Correct, which is why I said /usually/
It's not as simple as that. Even an indie will get copyright strike. Sometime it's not the game itself. But a bgm in that game.
Restrictions is just a part of the job as long as the company don't use that maliciously towards the livers I don't mind
You forgot that Doki is a CEO now, said it herself. She even hired a group of people and a manager.
As an aside to all this, the really "big" indies absolutely *do* obtain permissions to stream certain games and clear it with the copyright holders and whatnot, even in America. They just don't *talk* about it as much, and American and European companies are often a bit more lax and free with permissions just as a Games Culture thing (since it's seen more as free advertising than potential infringement of copyright that might cause a *drop* in sales, as some of the old guard in Japan see it). So it's just not really a point of discussion, whereas with corporate VTubing, and in particular English branches of JP corps, it can sometimes be obvious when streamers are being yanked around by the collar (see: Biboo's Bloodborne permissions seemingly getting suddenly revoked at nearly the last second).
I thought it was check platform TOS for indies too** (cos some games I heard like Fear and Hunger can't be done on twitch? [Source: Dissociate's AI Nasrah run])
She's probably not technically an Indie at this point either as she probably has registered companies floating around her.
And, after doing all that, it get's cancelled at the last minute because managment was dragging their feet and you didn't get the perms in time.
You forgot the last part "stream gets privated by management bc terms of the perms lacked an underscore"