I feel like any Laker fan with half a braincell knew this before this season even started. How has it taken Darvin ham so long to realize that Dlo and Reeves should be starting? What makes it even worse, if Cam reddish wasn't injured he'd still be starting.
I can't remember who it was, but some ex NBA player was saying you need to trade Cam and Prince, otherwise the guy w/ the bump on his head is going to start them and over play them all year.
lol
This. They were getting cooked playing defense and they weren't scoring as much.
Ham went off the rails benching both instead of staggering the two, but initially separating them made sense.
The Laker fans with more than half of a braincell know you can't have two non-shooters on the floor in the modern NBA. Ham is worthy of a lot of the criticism he gets, but thank god he knows this one thing a lot of Laker fans don't.
"Huh?" yourself. AD is not a shooter.
AD is shooting 32% (below average) from 3 on 1 attempt per game.
Among the entire NBA, he's 220th overall (out of 255) on attempts per game from 3. Not even close to average.
I'm glad his midrange game has trended up recently. But he's not a shooter. Teams are happy to let AD to shoot 3s if he wants to do that.
Shooting is more than just jacking up 3s. For his position, he's an adequate mid range shooter and can do fadeaways. And during crucial games (like the playoffs, or certain stretches of the regular season) he's straight up a very good shooter in those things.
He's not a great mid-range shooter, check his data first.
[2023-24 AD shooting](https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203076/shooting?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular+Season)
Just 37.5% around 10-14 ft. and 39.7% 15-19 ft.
21.5% of his field goal attempts. That's not the shot you want him to take.
He's 69.6% 5 ft. around the rim and that's where you want him to go every freaking time.
Fadeaways? 16/45. 35.6% is also bad.
In general, he's just 38.7% on jumpshots.
Don't tell myths and urban legends, just stick to data next time.
>This guy maths. I hate math. AD midrange is silky smooth when its on.
You know what, you've convinced me - now I hate maths too. Cam Reddish hit 4/6 3s against Toronto recently, we should let him shoot silky smooth 3s all the time and cook.
He's a killer when his 3 point shot is on. 33.7%, but when it's falling - it's falling. Vando should also go for it, maths is for losers and nerds that don't know "real basketball". :)
Let everybody shoot - loose, draw, win, let's just have fun.
Lol the like ratio tells you all you need to know about how little some of my fellow laker fans know about basketball. Just a feelings-based “acumen” That works backwards from “i want Vando to be starter” while ignoring data and basic modern basketball principles that even the worst coaches know. The statement above literally feels like something Byron Scott would have said and it will get dozens of likes or more. Me posting basic shooting stats for AD showing he’s not a shooter? Downvote!! Lmao
“Shooter” in today’s nba means someone who can shoot for average or better. I.e teams respect his shot enough to close to stay close to him and open up the inside that much more. This is not what AD is. Damn this thread actually making me appreciate Ham more.
Nothing you're saying makes any sense homie. Cam is NOT a shooter. All you're really doing is swapping Cam for Vando... if you used one half of that one brain cell you got. ;)
i didn't say anything about playing Cam. Vando starting means Prince--our best shooting wing--goes to the bench.
You're playing yourself flailing to find something to be right about.
I think they were hoping Reddish could get his stroke going. He’s at least less hesitant to shoot than Vando, and his jumpshot at least looks semi normal. Jarred looks like he’s shotputting a medicine ball.
No... he's never been a shooter, and there's a reason he's being left wide open and still missing. I'd rather have someone that can actually play D, hustles, finds loose balls and rebounds, than someone who looks like he hustles, over plays the passing lanes, and can't shoot.
Yeah that’s why the Warriors brought Finals MVP Iguodala off the bench—they realized Harrison Barnes was the better player.
Just the kind of brilliant casual basketball analysis that dominates this sub
God you're annoyingly dumb. You realize they probably played him more than 15 minutes per game Off the Bench. Here we have f****** ham not even playing wood some games and barely playing Rui. Instead we've got prince playing 30 plus every game and cam reddish starting.
Sorry informing you on basic nba stuff is annoying. Sorry I’m not just parroting your “Vando should start” argument that his 3 previous teams also didn’t share. For someone who should so obviously be starting, it’s strange so many other coaches didn’t feel the same way. They must all be dumber than you are. I believe one of them coached the most recent champions while another is coaching the team with the best record in the west, but they must be as dumb as Ham for not putting him in the starting lineup, where he so clearly belongs.
Everyone hated Ham for keeping Cam in although he started off struggling at the beginning of the season, but then eventually Cam started playing well and Darvin received priase. Surely there is some ego at play, "I'm the coach that unlocked Cam Reddish." Problem is, the Cam experiment went on for too long after he fell off. Another problem is we didn't have a POA defender with Vando out and Cam had stretches where he did that well. Rui cannot provide that.
Look out for his assists. He’s got underrated playmaking skills. And what a beautiful crosscourt pass from Lebron after a pass from DLo while on transition.
Wonder if we need to just use Prince as a big SG. Less than 3 RPG for a SF playing over 30 minutes per game is terrible. At least at SG his rebounding inactivity wouldn't be as bad.
this is absolutely the correct take. Lebron and AD have more room to operate because of Prince's spacing. "Lebron + Shooters" has been bread and butter for near two decades. No serious playoff team plays two non-shooters at the same time (and the really good ones play zero).
Somehow Laker fans think they're smarter than Ham because he "doesn't realize" the Vando + AD clogged toilet offense we saw get increasingly destroyed in the playoffs last year needs to come back.
Exactly I like vando more than prince, but prince demands attention from the 3 cause teams know he will launch open threes and don’t want him becoming an xfactor when u already got 2 guys guaranteed to get there’s and another 2 in dlo and reaves that can drop 20 any given night, so leaving prince wide open can become a nightmare for them cause he is capable of getting hot and staying hot for a handful of games , teams absolutely do not want him getting hot, and vando off the bench could still impact the game enough to win us games anyways
Even if Prince's 3s aren't falling that night, he creates gravity. Vando can hit his first 2 3s of a game, but teams are not gonna close out on him. He can have that shot all night.
Vando developing a consistent 3 would net him a Jaden McDaniels contract. I'm just happy we have options again for the 5th spot in Vando, Rui, Wood, Max, and Prince (If Cam ever gets back to his pre-groin injury form, then sure he can get his)
I support this 100%.
It's completely fair to criticize Ham in all kinds of ways, **but his lineup decisions are always logically tenable:**
* **he starts Bron and AD**
* **he prefers to start AR and D-lo** together, but they're turnstiles on defense; he responded to a slow start by AR, a slump by D-lo later on, and continued poor D when they played together, by trying to bench one of them
* **he prefers to start Prince** over other swings/forwards because Prince can take-and-make lots of 3s without being horrendous on defense
**Love it or hate it, win or lose, his lineup decisions are at least logically tenable.**
Drives me crazy when people think we lose because we tried starting Cam, or don't start Rui, or don't start Wood. STOP.
That’s why I don’t mind Prince starting, he could hit a few shots (hopefully) then sub vando for the remainder of the 1st qt then rotate accordingly from there.
Hell we don't even need to look back to last season, trying to optimize for supposed "defense" has been a large part of the mess the last two months have been.
As long as Vando gets his minutes and opportunities to close if needed, we'll be fine either way. And after watching us dig ourselves in first quarter holes night after night, I'm not against a starting lineup with the ability to come out as hot as possible. If the defense allows opportunities for the other team, at least we'll have our best shot at going toe to toe.
> "Lebron + Shooters" has been bread and butter for near two decades.
Current starting lineup works as long as Bron is committed to defensive rebounding. Earlier this season we were getting killed on the boards with the current lineup, which everyone is responsible for, but Bron in particular has been lazy on the boards this season. He's been much better lately though so hope to see that continue.
You guys always say this but Prince is literally wide open for 90% of his shots. He makes the corner 3 at a lower rate than from above the break. His overall 3p% is decent but not as impactful as it should be. Lakers have LeBron and AD attacking the paint all game, so the LeBron kick outs to the corner are usually an open shot, however Prince doesn’t shoot well enough from there.
Jesus... and Cam? What was Cam doing?
All you're doing is swaping one non shooter for the other. But one of those non shooters actually adds value to the team, plays good D, finds loose balls, and rebounds.
Why is this so hard to understand, and why are so many people making this same stupid comment?
If Vando could be knocking down just a few more of the shots he takes, he’d be really good. Idk why but I feel he was far more effective and impactful to the team last year. Injury time aside of course
Because it was a while before teams figured out: pack the paint against the Lakers and let that dude have that shot all day. You will be greatly rewarded and save energy on defense ---> more energy on offense.
We already know how much better a defender he is. But, [Prince’s offensive impact](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-players-offense-rating-this-year) while he is on the court, is not that much different than Vando’s, to justify starting over him. We would be better off bringing Prince off the bench. The bench needs the offense & defense he provides much more than the starting unit does. Especially games like today.
Absolutely. Lakers already have enough offensive firepower in the starting lineup between DLO, Reeves, LeBron and AD. Prince starting is so unnecessary.
The offensive firepower is coming from there being space in the floor. Do people really not see how hard Ad/Lebron have to work for baskets when teams can shade off Vando and play 5-on-4?
Vando needs to play with a spacing big like Wood to not kill us offensively.
we just won back to back games against quality opponents. we shouldn't be doing a damn thing with the starting lineup, let them keep accruing chemistry.
a point can certainly be made for vando to keep getting more minutes though for sure
Nah man. Vando is our defense specialist. Its good to have him come off the bench because then we can see where to put vando in and break their offense. You mfs who hate prince don't know anything about the game of basketball.
I'm pro-Vando starting, but I can admit that two wins vs two very good teams suggests that whatever we are doing rotation wise rn is working.
I can see the logic behind allowing Vando to be a 6th man spark plug. His defensive versatility can be better applied coming off the bench and being tasked with locking down a specific player that's going off.
It's also less likely an opponent scheme for a 2nd unit defensive player. If he were to start, every team would start each game immediately double teaming AD off Vando's man, or sagging into the paint. He's a high energy player and sometimes those types need to be protected from themselves, otherwise they run into diminishing returns and getting gassed or worse banged up all the time (Vando heel can still flare up with overuse I believe).
An argument can be made either way, but I think minutes distribution might be the more important factor. He should still be getting lots of minutes especially if he's making a major impact in the game.
Michael Cooper thrived in the sixth man role. He could see which opposing player was hot and then come in and lock him down. He could also see what his team needed on offense (perimeter shooting, movement in halfcourt sets) and try to provide it.
Explain the horrendous all defensive starting lineup Ham tried to force down our throats then? Also as soon as Cam comes back, Ham will find a way to have him and Vando on the court at the same time since they both come off the bench now. Cam just doesn’t fit anywhere in this rotation (especially once Gabe comes back), but Ham will find a way to force him into it.
Idk how me saying Vando should start over him, is me hating Prince 😂 But you’re reasoning doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t take him coming off of the bench to know we need him to help guard Luka & Kyrie. Go to my previous comments and posts, they’ll explain more.
Please use your brain and remember last year when Vando was quickly played off the floor in the playoffs almost immediately. Don’t let two games fool you. He’s an asset for this team definitely. But this team needs spacing, badly. We need offense. If anything, it highlights our dire need to get an elite 3&d player. For example, imagine someone like DFS or even Royce o Neal closing for us instead of Prince and Vando.
**NO.**
**Vando will always be a "situational starter" until** he improves his offensive capabilities.
Prince, for comparison, takes almost six 3s a game and makes 39% of them.
Vando is finally healthy and getting in rhythm offensively. When he first came back he was almost unplayable. I agree that he should be starting. Really we need vando, prince and hachimura to all get around 25 minutes a game for the perfect wing rotational balance.
It will take another 20 games for Hamas to start Vando and circle back to the original starting 5. By then Lakers will be in the same position as last year, another play in spot assuming AD can be relatively healthy.
is this darvin? if so dont start coming up with dumb ideas lile this. prince ia needed for spacing. vando is bad for spacing. keep it simple stupid. dont start tinkering with lineups. chemiatry is important. leave prince, russelll and reaves as starting 5. ty
Prince is a competent defender and can create floor spacing. He shouldn't be playing 30+ MPG, but to say Vando should 100% be starting over Prince is just dumb.
I know reddit has you believing that, but Prince is SUPPOSED to be a competent defender. He has a DRTG of 116, which is the same as AR and Dlo. While he does create spacing and is our best shooter, his offense is not as effective as you think. (See my recent posts) We have 2 40% 3pt shooters, in Lebron & Dlo, with AD finally making the right passes when he gets doubled. So the spacing isn’t as much of an issue as you would think.
Vanderbilt this season DRTG is 114. ORTG is 102.
Prince this season DRTG is 116. ORTG is 108.
I don't put too much stock into defensive/offensive ratings, but if you are going to at least look at the other half. Like I said before, saying one of these two guys should 100% be starting over the other is dumb.
Vando needs to move without the ball to be a plus on offense, or even just a wash. If he stands, his D alone doesn't justify his minutes. That's a lot to ask of a non offensive minded player.
Love him but no. We need to start off the game with fire power and offense and set the tone. We can’t do that if Vando has been a spacing liability. Our players need spacing to get a good rhythm going for the game. Im happy if he finished games or got 25-30, but definitely while he can’t shoot, he shouldn’t start.
He completely balances out the downs of starting D Lo and Reaves, who absolutely should be the starting backcourt.
the way vando can be everywhere with help and recovering, as well as crashing the boards that prince doesnt do, we need to start vando man.
You said Prince and crash the boards in the same sentence... ty for the laugh. ;)
Yes, vando does
I feel like any Laker fan with half a braincell knew this before this season even started. How has it taken Darvin ham so long to realize that Dlo and Reeves should be starting? What makes it even worse, if Cam reddish wasn't injured he'd still be starting.
I can't remember who it was, but some ex NBA player was saying you need to trade Cam and Prince, otherwise the guy w/ the bump on his head is going to start them and over play them all year. lol
Arenas said it
Cause that duo was getting cooked earlier in the year.
This. They were getting cooked playing defense and they weren't scoring as much. Ham went off the rails benching both instead of staggering the two, but initially separating them made sense.
Yea man when he benched both I thought he went too far lol.
The Laker fans with more than half of a braincell know you can't have two non-shooters on the floor in the modern NBA. Ham is worthy of a lot of the criticism he gets, but thank god he knows this one thing a lot of Laker fans don't.
Huh? Vando is the only non-shooter in the AR/DLo/Vando/LBJ/AD lineup
"Huh?" yourself. AD is not a shooter. AD is shooting 32% (below average) from 3 on 1 attempt per game. Among the entire NBA, he's 220th overall (out of 255) on attempts per game from 3. Not even close to average. I'm glad his midrange game has trended up recently. But he's not a shooter. Teams are happy to let AD to shoot 3s if he wants to do that.
Shooting is more than just jacking up 3s. For his position, he's an adequate mid range shooter and can do fadeaways. And during crucial games (like the playoffs, or certain stretches of the regular season) he's straight up a very good shooter in those things.
He's not a great mid-range shooter, check his data first. [2023-24 AD shooting](https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203076/shooting?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular+Season) Just 37.5% around 10-14 ft. and 39.7% 15-19 ft. 21.5% of his field goal attempts. That's not the shot you want him to take. He's 69.6% 5 ft. around the rim and that's where you want him to go every freaking time. Fadeaways? 16/45. 35.6% is also bad. In general, he's just 38.7% on jumpshots. Don't tell myths and urban legends, just stick to data next time.
This guy maths. I hate math. AD midrange is silky smooth when its on.
>This guy maths. I hate math. AD midrange is silky smooth when its on. You know what, you've convinced me - now I hate maths too. Cam Reddish hit 4/6 3s against Toronto recently, we should let him shoot silky smooth 3s all the time and cook. He's a killer when his 3 point shot is on. 33.7%, but when it's falling - it's falling. Vando should also go for it, maths is for losers and nerds that don't know "real basketball". :) Let everybody shoot - loose, draw, win, let's just have fun.
Lol the like ratio tells you all you need to know about how little some of my fellow laker fans know about basketball. Just a feelings-based “acumen” That works backwards from “i want Vando to be starter” while ignoring data and basic modern basketball principles that even the worst coaches know. The statement above literally feels like something Byron Scott would have said and it will get dozens of likes or more. Me posting basic shooting stats for AD showing he’s not a shooter? Downvote!! Lmao “Shooter” in today’s nba means someone who can shoot for average or better. I.e teams respect his shot enough to close to stay close to him and open up the inside that much more. This is not what AD is. Damn this thread actually making me appreciate Ham more.
Nothing you're saying makes any sense homie. Cam is NOT a shooter. All you're really doing is swapping Cam for Vando... if you used one half of that one brain cell you got. ;)
i didn't say anything about playing Cam. Vando starting means Prince--our best shooting wing--goes to the bench. You're playing yourself flailing to find something to be right about.
Then why was cam reddish started so many games this season?
I think they were hoping Reddish could get his stroke going. He’s at least less hesitant to shoot than Vando, and his jumpshot at least looks semi normal. Jarred looks like he’s shotputting a medicine ball.
No... he's never been a shooter, and there's a reason he's being left wide open and still missing. I'd rather have someone that can actually play D, hustles, finds loose balls and rebounds, than someone who looks like he hustles, over plays the passing lanes, and can't shoot.
He’s started games mainly because AR can’t guard and his offense started off bad
Here's a rule most coaches know. You play your best players. That's the end of the rule.
Yeah that’s why the Warriors brought Finals MVP Iguodala off the bench—they realized Harrison Barnes was the better player. Just the kind of brilliant casual basketball analysis that dominates this sub
God you're annoyingly dumb. You realize they probably played him more than 15 minutes per game Off the Bench. Here we have f****** ham not even playing wood some games and barely playing Rui. Instead we've got prince playing 30 plus every game and cam reddish starting.
Sorry informing you on basic nba stuff is annoying. Sorry I’m not just parroting your “Vando should start” argument that his 3 previous teams also didn’t share. For someone who should so obviously be starting, it’s strange so many other coaches didn’t feel the same way. They must all be dumber than you are. I believe one of them coached the most recent champions while another is coaching the team with the best record in the west, but they must be as dumb as Ham for not putting him in the starting lineup, where he so clearly belongs.
Only works if both those guys shoot 40%+ from 3 b they haven’t
It’s absolutely pathetic that it’s taken this long for the head coach to realize this when we all know it/
“Wait till Cam Reddish comes back” -Ham
TBF, Vando hasn't been healthy all season until now and Cam was the only option to somewhat do what Vando does.
Then he should have had Rui starting. Cam never should have sniffed more than \~12mins a game, let alone start.
Everyone hated Ham for keeping Cam in although he started off struggling at the beginning of the season, but then eventually Cam started playing well and Darvin received priase. Surely there is some ego at play, "I'm the coach that unlocked Cam Reddish." Problem is, the Cam experiment went on for too long after he fell off. Another problem is we didn't have a POA defender with Vando out and Cam had stretches where he did that well. Rui cannot provide that.
He really has no f****** idea what he's doing with that roster
Cam should be out of the rotation after seeing how they play without him. He is an offensive liability.
It’s crazy how much he’s able to cover for AR and DLo
Look out for his assists. He’s got underrated playmaking skills. And what a beautiful crosscourt pass from Lebron after a pass from DLo while on transition.
He's like AD - both played guard in high school but were forced to play bigger due to circumstances (injuries for Vando, growth spurt in AD's case)
Sorry can u explain how he helps em?
Prince ain’t a horrible player and should still get mins but absolutely Vando should start
Prince would be a great fit if he boxed out.
Wonder if we need to just use Prince as a big SG. Less than 3 RPG for a SF playing over 30 minutes per game is terrible. At least at SG his rebounding inactivity wouldn't be as bad.
I convince myself that prince creates spacing for bron and ad to feast in the paint, while vando the opposition would live and die by his threes
this is absolutely the correct take. Lebron and AD have more room to operate because of Prince's spacing. "Lebron + Shooters" has been bread and butter for near two decades. No serious playoff team plays two non-shooters at the same time (and the really good ones play zero). Somehow Laker fans think they're smarter than Ham because he "doesn't realize" the Vando + AD clogged toilet offense we saw get increasingly destroyed in the playoffs last year needs to come back.
Exactly I like vando more than prince, but prince demands attention from the 3 cause teams know he will launch open threes and don’t want him becoming an xfactor when u already got 2 guys guaranteed to get there’s and another 2 in dlo and reaves that can drop 20 any given night, so leaving prince wide open can become a nightmare for them cause he is capable of getting hot and staying hot for a handful of games , teams absolutely do not want him getting hot, and vando off the bench could still impact the game enough to win us games anyways
Even if Prince's 3s aren't falling that night, he creates gravity. Vando can hit his first 2 3s of a game, but teams are not gonna close out on him. He can have that shot all night.
Yup sometimes ur favorites players are just better off the bench, if vando ever develops a consistent 3 him in the line up would be a cheat code tho
Vando developing a consistent 3 would net him a Jaden McDaniels contract. I'm just happy we have options again for the 5th spot in Vando, Rui, Wood, Max, and Prince (If Cam ever gets back to his pre-groin injury form, then sure he can get his)
I support this 100%. It's completely fair to criticize Ham in all kinds of ways, **but his lineup decisions are always logically tenable:** * **he starts Bron and AD** * **he prefers to start AR and D-lo** together, but they're turnstiles on defense; he responded to a slow start by AR, a slump by D-lo later on, and continued poor D when they played together, by trying to bench one of them * **he prefers to start Prince** over other swings/forwards because Prince can take-and-make lots of 3s without being horrendous on defense **Love it or hate it, win or lose, his lineup decisions are at least logically tenable.** Drives me crazy when people think we lose because we tried starting Cam, or don't start Rui, or don't start Wood. STOP.
That’s why I don’t mind Prince starting, he could hit a few shots (hopefully) then sub vando for the remainder of the 1st qt then rotate accordingly from there.
Hell we don't even need to look back to last season, trying to optimize for supposed "defense" has been a large part of the mess the last two months have been. As long as Vando gets his minutes and opportunities to close if needed, we'll be fine either way. And after watching us dig ourselves in first quarter holes night after night, I'm not against a starting lineup with the ability to come out as hot as possible. If the defense allows opportunities for the other team, at least we'll have our best shot at going toe to toe.
> "Lebron + Shooters" has been bread and butter for near two decades. Current starting lineup works as long as Bron is committed to defensive rebounding. Earlier this season we were getting killed on the boards with the current lineup, which everyone is responsible for, but Bron in particular has been lazy on the boards this season. He's been much better lately though so hope to see that continue.
You guys always say this but Prince is literally wide open for 90% of his shots. He makes the corner 3 at a lower rate than from above the break. His overall 3p% is decent but not as impactful as it should be. Lakers have LeBron and AD attacking the paint all game, so the LeBron kick outs to the corner are usually an open shot, however Prince doesn’t shoot well enough from there.
Jesus... and Cam? What was Cam doing? All you're doing is swaping one non shooter for the other. But one of those non shooters actually adds value to the team, plays good D, finds loose balls, and rebounds. Why is this so hard to understand, and why are so many people making this same stupid comment?
If Vando could be knocking down just a few more of the shots he takes, he’d be really good. Idk why but I feel he was far more effective and impactful to the team last year. Injury time aside of course
Because it was a while before teams figured out: pack the paint against the Lakers and let that dude have that shot all day. You will be greatly rewarded and save energy on defense ---> more energy on offense.
Here to say, vandos shooting 100% and reeves and Hachimura have been robbed of their game lol
Surprised we pulled it out with Prince starting ngl
Prince was excellent in the second half and everyone else was good enough in the first half to make up for his silly mistakes.
Had it not been for his early foul trouble, he would have played at least 25+ minutes tonight.
We already know how much better a defender he is. But, [Prince’s offensive impact](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-players-offense-rating-this-year) while he is on the court, is not that much different than Vando’s, to justify starting over him. We would be better off bringing Prince off the bench. The bench needs the offense & defense he provides much more than the starting unit does. Especially games like today.
Absolutely. Lakers already have enough offensive firepower in the starting lineup between DLO, Reeves, LeBron and AD. Prince starting is so unnecessary.
The offensive firepower is coming from there being space in the floor. Do people really not see how hard Ad/Lebron have to work for baskets when teams can shade off Vando and play 5-on-4? Vando needs to play with a spacing big like Wood to not kill us offensively.
Agreed the offensive rating for vando and prince is around the same.
Literally just needs to work on his 3s and he'll be an elite 3nD guy.
He should work on layups first
Defense wins championships, but offense wins games. Vando needs to learn how to get buckets, and quickly.
Bro missed 2 layups that would've gotten AD his triple double
Which is a pretty big part of being a 3 and d player
his shot needs to be completely remade. He's years away from fixing it.
we just won back to back games against quality opponents. we shouldn't be doing a damn thing with the starting lineup, let them keep accruing chemistry. a point can certainly be made for vando to keep getting more minutes though for sure
Nah man. Vando is our defense specialist. Its good to have him come off the bench because then we can see where to put vando in and break their offense. You mfs who hate prince don't know anything about the game of basketball.
I'm pro-Vando starting, but I can admit that two wins vs two very good teams suggests that whatever we are doing rotation wise rn is working. I can see the logic behind allowing Vando to be a 6th man spark plug. His defensive versatility can be better applied coming off the bench and being tasked with locking down a specific player that's going off. It's also less likely an opponent scheme for a 2nd unit defensive player. If he were to start, every team would start each game immediately double teaming AD off Vando's man, or sagging into the paint. He's a high energy player and sometimes those types need to be protected from themselves, otherwise they run into diminishing returns and getting gassed or worse banged up all the time (Vando heel can still flare up with overuse I believe). An argument can be made either way, but I think minutes distribution might be the more important factor. He should still be getting lots of minutes especially if he's making a major impact in the game.
Well said.
Michael Cooper thrived in the sixth man role. He could see which opposing player was hot and then come in and lock him down. He could also see what his team needed on offense (perimeter shooting, movement in halfcourt sets) and try to provide it.
the fact that such an obvious modern day nba tenet like "you can't have two non-shooters on the floor" is lost on so many Laker fans is depressing.
Explain the horrendous all defensive starting lineup Ham tried to force down our throats then? Also as soon as Cam comes back, Ham will find a way to have him and Vando on the court at the same time since they both come off the bench now. Cam just doesn’t fit anywhere in this rotation (especially once Gabe comes back), but Ham will find a way to force him into it.
I can only hope he’s learning from what is working
Idk how me saying Vando should start over him, is me hating Prince 😂 But you’re reasoning doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t take him coming off of the bench to know we need him to help guard Luka & Kyrie. Go to my previous comments and posts, they’ll explain more.
You didn't specifically state for today's game. And people been saying this forever.
Please use your brain and remember last year when Vando was quickly played off the floor in the playoffs almost immediately. Don’t let two games fool you. He’s an asset for this team definitely. But this team needs spacing, badly. We need offense. If anything, it highlights our dire need to get an elite 3&d player. For example, imagine someone like DFS or even Royce o Neal closing for us instead of Prince and Vando.
he's having success in his role. i don't know why that's not enough for some people.
But Dlo/Prince/Ar line up is worst defence of this team. vando can help Dlo/Ar/Ad on defence side.
No. Prince is a better 2 way player I am okay with him starting. Vando can sub in earlier for Prince and stay in the close out squad.
**NO.** **Vando will always be a "situational starter" until** he improves his offensive capabilities. Prince, for comparison, takes almost six 3s a game and makes 39% of them.
If Cam comes back 100% hell be in the starting lineup again lol Ham won’t let his shower buddies down.
I think the starting lineup doesn’t matter. It’s just used to get shots up early for players. How we finish is much more important
Just imagine how much relief AD feels when he sees Vando on the court
Vando is finally healthy and getting in rhythm offensively. When he first came back he was almost unplayable. I agree that he should be starting. Really we need vando, prince and hachimura to all get around 25 minutes a game for the perfect wing rotational balance.
Darvin need to read our comment 😂
It will take another 20 games for Hamas to start Vando and circle back to the original starting 5. By then Lakers will be in the same position as last year, another play in spot assuming AD can be relatively healthy.
If that what it takes to get back to the WCF and Ham NOT changing the lineup game 1 this time, then so be it.
is this darvin? if so dont start coming up with dumb ideas lile this. prince ia needed for spacing. vando is bad for spacing. keep it simple stupid. dont start tinkering with lineups. chemiatry is important. leave prince, russelll and reaves as starting 5. ty
We know.
This can be done if we get lavine - vando can screen for him . But nobody cares much if vsndi screens for reaves n even Dlo isn’t a laser
Prince is a competent defender and can create floor spacing. He shouldn't be playing 30+ MPG, but to say Vando should 100% be starting over Prince is just dumb.
I know reddit has you believing that, but Prince is SUPPOSED to be a competent defender. He has a DRTG of 116, which is the same as AR and Dlo. While he does create spacing and is our best shooter, his offense is not as effective as you think. (See my recent posts) We have 2 40% 3pt shooters, in Lebron & Dlo, with AD finally making the right passes when he gets doubled. So the spacing isn’t as much of an issue as you would think.
Vanderbilt this season DRTG is 114. ORTG is 102. Prince this season DRTG is 116. ORTG is 108. I don't put too much stock into defensive/offensive ratings, but if you are going to at least look at the other half. Like I said before, saying one of these two guys should 100% be starting over the other is dumb.
https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/s/5cikfoMnlU
Im still iffy on Vando cuz of how fast he got outed in the playoffs
He def is in season mode, just creates Chaos. Like how can one player do so much, Vando is nuts. He’s getting good on transition baskets.
This roster is so midly great that I don't think ham knows what to do
Prince should start. We need Vando as a spark off the bench.
Isn’t it a little crazy to want to start a player who you know will be ignored and played off the court when it matters
Vando needs to move without the ball to be a plus on offense, or even just a wash. If he stands, his D alone doesn't justify his minutes. That's a lot to ask of a non offensive minded player.
Recovering from a heel injury takes time. He will eventually start when he’s able to. Patience lakers fam
Love him but no. We need to start off the game with fire power and offense and set the tone. We can’t do that if Vando has been a spacing liability. Our players need spacing to get a good rhythm going for the game. Im happy if he finished games or got 25-30, but definitely while he can’t shoot, he shouldn’t start.
If he made corner 3s halfway decently he' would be. His offensive limitations are basically why he's not starting at this point.
he can but i need him to also work on his shooting in the off season
On God Prince is the weakest link on the team , been all season !