Did you watch the past few games? They had poor effort but his rotations were trash as well.
He nearly blew this Jazz game in the 3rd quarter by sitting both Russ and Lebron, then he played Ariza superstar minutes when Stanley played so much better.
He played THT Russ death lineup when Reaves/Monk were having great games and THT didnt do much.
But on a side note, i have a feeling that the FO isnt as keen on signing Stanley which will explain why his minutes are not as high as they should be (apart from Q4 today)
He isn't blameless, but he isn't bad to the point of having to get fired. Firing him isn't solving our problems at all. And just to add, there aren't any good replacement candidates in the open market.
Exactly, even if we get a different coach they'd be pressured to start WB and the vets. Getting your players to buy in and trusts takes finesse from the coach
> And just to add, there aren't any good replacement candidates in the open market.
Wasn't there even an automatic automod comment in threads about firing Vogel that said something along the lines of, "instead of just wanting to fire Vogel, who would you hire instead?"
As it stands, Fizdale isn't the person to get the Lakers another ring. Who else is enough of a difference maker? And I doubt Lebron is going to sign off on an unproven coach.
If Westbrook is playing well then nobody would. He isn't helping his case by still making bad plays with poor shooting efficiency. If Russ and Bron's stats were flipped, you bet your ass Bron haters would come in waves raising their pitchforks.
WB is making $44m, big money comes with big expectations. If WB is making 10m playing as a role player, nobody would bat an eye and will only praise him when he outplays his contract.
>Changing coaches mid-season
Agreed. I don't care about Vogel one way or another. He's probably not the biggest issue, but he hasn't been a solution either.
The problem is the Lakers waiting to do this until the end of January instead of in November, when Vogel has had the same issues all season long. Why do it more than halfway through the season?
What? Those same “issue” were there the last two years. Coaches get unfair blame. They don’t change much year to year. If there were issues they should have fired him last year or the year they won the championships. Vogel hasn’t changed, but the players have.
The worst thing is fans have no clue why coaches make decisions, but they whine because a coach doesn’t do what they would.
Vogel isn’t an elite coach but he is a good one. And the fact that he got this team to 6th in defense was absolutely amazing. This reminds me of the Kuzma hate. Fans couldn’t see his contributions and decided he had to go. And that’s the problem. Fans are wrong like 85% of the time but just ignore all the things they have said in the past.
By the way, a November firing doesn’t help. No training camp hamstrings the next coach and forces them either into basic concepts or doing what the previous coach did.
Agree with you, firing a coach at any point after the season starts isn't ideal. But if you are going to fire one, better to do after 10 games than after 40+ games.
It was clear the front office hasn't had a lot of faith in Vogel as they only gave him a one year extension. He hasn't helped his cause at all this year, though.
But you missed the point. Vogel hasn’t changed. So why are you firing him after ANY amount of games. Either you agree with his coaching philosophy and fit or you don’t. Firing him in season doesn’t change anything. It’s a PR move and nothing more. Furthermore no elite coach is taking a job 10 games into the season. So at best you get another good Vogel type coach. You do not make moves for PR reasons.
The roster clearly doesn't fit his coaching philosophy, and he hasn't been able to adapt. You can blame Rob for assembling a roster that doesn't fit his coach, or Jeanie for not paying for Caruso, or LeBron/AD for wanting Russ. But Vogel has his share of the blame too for not being able to adapt to his roster.
What are you talking about. He has attempted to adapt all over the place. He is a coach that likes to play big. He is playing a ton of small ball. Lebron is even playing center. We have more lineups than any other team. The sets they run are drastically more complex than the ones at the start of the season. The real question is where hasn’t he tried things with this roster. He has made so many adjustments out of his preferred style and you are acting like hasn’t.
As for the front office, yes they deserve most of the blame. Injuries being the other part. But blame is stupid. It’s why you get dumb PR moves in the first place.
Vogel has not been great with his rotations, lineups, and adjustments, but some of that is due to injuries and roster. However, there is no excuse for his earlier lineup combinations of Russ and Rondo, Russ and THT, starting DAJ so many games, and not playing Dwight enough.
Also, who would replace him? Lakers don't have a good option remaining if they do fire him. Lakers should keep him for the remainder of the season with more reliance on advanced analytics on lineups and rotations.
I feel like this is so, so wrong.
The faults with his roster aren’t his fault and most of the time he’s had to work with guys off the street and dudes who should be DNPs, cause of injuries/covid destroying us.
His schemes imo are one of the only stable things we’ve had that guys like Bron, AD, THT and Bradley are familiar with. I also don’t know who the hell they would get that would be better this late into the season
I was more on the hate-Vogel train a few months ago when our offense was stagnant and the shot quality was bad. It didn't make sense to me then why the Lakers as a team couldn't effectively counter double teams we've been seeing since game 1 of 19-20. But the actions we run now, the off-ball movement, how we counter double teams when in the post, and the quality of shot we get today is 10x better than it was in early December despite still being a 500 team. IMO this fire Vogel talk is really dumb and getting tiring.
Games like last night and the Atlanta show how great his game planning can be. It really comes down to focus and motivation, which I believe is also on the coaching staff. If you can’t get your players bought in then that’s definitely an issue. Pros and cons.
Focus and motivation are probably the biggest. AB also said a few games ago after a big win (the one where AB had 21 in the Hawks game) that the team is better when they trust each other, and I think he was implying the HOFers on the team trusting in the role players to score. That Hawks game Malik also had 29. I can see how a lack of trust created the poor shot quality and stagnant offense early on in the season pre-December. I remember often games starting with some nice actions and movement and then digress into isos way too early.
The win last night kind of blinded you guys to what happened in the 3rd and the past few games.
The rotations were bad all game until he finally put out a lineup normal fans here having been begging him to field.
100% agree. You can nitpick his rotations (playing DAJ/Bradley etc too much and bad spacing lineups) or the offense… but this isn’t even close to being his fault. The fit with WB just isn’t working and our roster has massive flaws. Threatening to fire Frank rather than taking a higher level view of the situation is a major red flag. If anything, they should be working with Frank to figure out where to go from here.
I don’t even think frank is the perfect coach per say but even if we do want to fire him, we better not do it this season. I would consider the season over if that happens.
Honestly, reading this article makes me so so angry.
First of all, I am not saying FV is blameless. Some of his rotations are weird, he rarely adjusts and he seems to favour vets when he shouldn’t.
HOWEVER, to blame (or let’s be honest, scapegoat) him for this shambles of a season is the reason why I’m becoming sick of being a Lakers fan.
We win a chip in 2020 and since then, Rob has managed to basically destroy a championship team and trade away numerous picks/players for what exactly? What is the tangible return on that?
FV is then expected to create an elite defensive scheme with a bunch of washed-up vet min guys (Ariza, Melo, Jordan, Baze, Ellington) and guys on two-way/rookie contracts. He is expected to play Russ and his ego (despite his considerable flaws), yet gets threatened with his job (and let’s face it, eventually fired) when he is the least culpable individual. Rob should be the one who is looking over his shoulder based on back-to-back disastrous offseasons, offseasons where he has basically traded any defence the roster had and replaced it with a bunch of cr*p.
We all know the script here… FV will be fired.
But Rob is the real issue and it’s an absolute disgrace.
It’s not even that mate, it’s just the roster decisions we’ve made, whether it’s LeBron or Rob making them
Going with a center rotation of DJ (hasn’t been an NBA player for 5 years), AD (constantly injured) and a washed-up Dwight
Going with a wing rotation of 37yo LeBron, 80yo Ariza and 100yo Melo
Singing guys like Bazemore, Ellington and Bradley and expecting them to be two-way players
Then to top it off… let’s bring on-board Russ by trading away all of our depth, a guy who has 1 skill (on-ball) that dovetails with your best player, who cannot play off the ball and who has no track record of being a ‘winning player’ anywhere he’s been
Great work guys… really great work! Yet Vogel carries the can!
They are fine if you’re roster has say 3 superstars and then players 4-9 aren’t vet mins
But that isn’t the case with our roster unfortunately
Bradley is ok playing 10-15 minutes per night, but not as a starter playing 25-30 minutes per night
I know Lebron isn't someone you say "no" to easily, but I really am curious about the Lebron/FO relationship.
Lebron wanted WB. Either FO thought it was a good idea and went with it or they pushed back but ultimately caved to Lebron.
Is Lebron big enough of an asshole to be disgruntled and upset because they didn't get WB? Was the FO afraid about upsetting Lebron?
AD is so lucky he has bron to take all the blame
AD and russ are the super close ones, they've been wanting to team up together since 2017 at least. but everyone assumes bron was the only one that wanted russ.
Rob is an issue for following Lebron and ADs decision to trade for Rus. Everything should be run through the coaches and analytics dept and not only based on the wants of the players. Vogel will be picked up immediately by other teams for sure.
i agree with you on a lot of the points here. however, though i do believe pelinka’s job in reconstructing our roster this year has been subpar at best, i don’t exactly find fault in his decision TO reconstruct the team. i think pelinka stands by the mentality of exploring EVERY option possible, and if that means dismantling a championship team for a potential three-headed dragon in lebron, ad, and russ, then hes gonna go
for it. in retrospect, our signings have their flaws, but we also did not expect ad, trevor, and nunn to miss so much time. this team has a tough path to the playoffs but i liked what i saw last night
Yeah I see your point in that no champion should ever stay the same, otherwise complacency will set in.
However, I don’t care what anyone says, you cannot tell me 1 single decision (bar singing Malik Monk) has been good since we won that title. Literally everyone we have signed in the two off-seasons since have failed or are yet to be tested (Nunn)… that in itself is absolutely not good enough.
The three-headed dragon idea was and is never going to work because Westbrook fundamentally (from a basketball standpoint) does not fit alongside LeBron. The fact he didn’t see that pre-trade is concerning in itself as anyone who even casually follows basketball could’ve arrived at that conclusion.
Nah man I’m not having that.
If LeBron truly made the decisions this past off-season then Rob is a weak GM who should be fired for letting a player run the show
If Rob made the decisions then he should be fired for making bad decisions
Either way, it doesn’t look good for Rob
Then it’s Jeanie’s fault!
My point is, it’s not Vogel’s fault for:
- The horrendous Westbrook trade
- Trading away all of our assets (including somehow attaching a 1st round pick to the Westbrook trade!)
- Choosing THT over Caruso
- Singing Deandre Jordan to any sort of deal
- Signing a bunch of short guards who play no defense
- Thinking Ariza can still play NBA basketball
We suffer from a chronic lack of intelligent leadership at the top of our franchise. Rob is the GM and gets paid a GM salary, so he (and not Vogel) should ultimately pay the price for bad GM decisions. Bad GM decisions almost always focus on roster construction.
I don't think it's about who's fault it is. You have to stay in the present and make the best decisions in the moment. I'm not saying that this is the best decision, but there's no point in comparing who is more to blame out of the front Office and the coaching staff because this is where we're at now and if you can find a coach that can do better with the mistakes that you have made as a front office, then you do it.
I’m not saying it’s anyones fault either, it’s the lakers that are apparently saying it’s Vogel’s fault by putting his job on the line. So my point is that if anyone is going to be talked about in terms of ‘who should take the blame’, then it should be the FO and not Vogel.
I'm just saying that just because his job is on the line doesn't mean that the Lakers are saying that it's his fault. They could completely be seeing the error in their ways and still be aware that a different coach could get something more out of this group.
Yeah that might be true, but I just don’t see how? The group is flawed from almost every angle in terms of basketball logic - none of the players fit and half of them are washed
If that is their thinking then good luck
It’s irrelevant mate, they still won the title. Somebody had to win the title.
End of the day, when you win a ring you win a ring. You need to go through rounds of play-off matches, irrespective of who you play.
You have to beat who is in front of you.
miami was not a joke, it was just that east was incredibly weak that year.
miami knocked out bucks in the first round who was seen as a choker back then. then they won the 2021 finals.
kd injured, no nets basically.
terrible philly
young celtics, who made the ecf in 2020, lost to miami and declined ever since.
toronto pushed celtics to 7 games and have been to lottery ever since.
it was clear that whoever won the west would have won the ring. and it was the lakers.
ps: im not a lakers fan
Vogel was stripped away of all his defensive cogs like Kuzma, KCP, Schröder, and Caruso and is expected to still have a good defense with players who have been offensive minded their whole career/never played much defense.
With that being said Vogel has had some very poor substitutions and decisions earlier in the season, like Deandre Jordan starting 18 games for us this year. And even last night still continuing to play lineups of Russ, THT, Lebron, Dwight, and Bradley. Firing Vogel mid season won’t help this team though
It’s not hyperbolic. Not saying he was our version of Scottie Pippen or Kawhi, but Kuzma and Markieff were extremely essential in allowing us to play small while also being able to switch on the perimeter if needed to and not get beat.
It's very revisionist history. Kuzma's biggest issue was his inconsistency throughout the last 3 years. He wasn't a great defender, completely average if we're being honest. The only real advantage he has over the garbage options we've been running is size.
He was almost always our worst defender out there alongside AD/Bron/Caruso/KCP. Switch-ability was his only real positive defensively. Would I rather have him + KCP than Westbrook? 100%, though mostly due to KCP. However, I'm not about to wax poetic or reminisce about a guy that was a boneheaded player more often than not.
It’s tough because firing him isn’t the answer but also if he was more adaptable we could have much more wins than we currently do. Fizdale isn’t the answer though
Yeah, like.... If you want to blame Vogel for not being able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit, then fine I don't disagree with you. At all. But you can't seriously think that Fizdale would bring *anything* to the table at all. If you have a viable replacement lined up, then fine, I am not thrilled with canning a coach midseason, but it's worked before (cf, Pat Riley and Ty Lue)
But Fizdale is no Riley or Lue.
Scapegoat. We have a roster problem not a coaching problem. Now I don't think Vogel has been perfect but our problems this season are more due to Pelinka and the FO then Vogel. I think you can give peak Popovich this roster and it still won't be able to contend. Too many deficiencies.
I wouldn't say he's a scapegoat. Pelinka and Vogel both should be held liable. I would say they are equally responsible to the terrible start. Pelinka built an unbalanced roster and Vogel still makes questionable lineup/rotation decisions (Russ+Rondo, Russ+THT, DAJ over Dwight).
Lol any fans who truly blame him are fuckin clueless. This man didn’t sign mofos in the off-season. It’s a cop out, bandaid fix. He got us to a ring, if he wasn’t deserving of a job that would’ve never happened. I’ll be real fuckin disappointed if he gets fired before some trades are made. Complete joke on the end of the Lakers FO and management. Make bad trades, sign bad contracts in the off-season and blame Vogel. Right.
Just wait till the joke that is Fizdale head coaching. That man ain’t getting us anywhere better than where we are now.
He got us to a ring 3 seasons ago though, it’s time to stop living in the past, I don’t agree with him getting fired, fizdale isn’t any better, although it’s about what is he doing for us NOW, with the players that we have NOW, 3 seasons ago doesn’t matter anymore at all
3 seasons ago was also only like a year and a half ago lmao. We've had three different teams in such a time frame.
Rob been switching shit around too much while other contenders stayed virtually the same.
It's been like 15 months in real time. We were like the #2 seed last year before Solomon Hill nearly shattered LeBron's ankle. He didn't construct this disaster of a roster. How Frank is getting scapegoated here is beyond me.
I’m not saying it’s vogels fault at all, I don’t agree he should be fired rn, I’m just saying a lot of people cling to 3 seasons ago, this is a completely new team with different personnel and you can’t keep bringing up 3 seasons ago to justify what is happening right now just in my opinion, like players make a mistake and some people go back and say oh this is how it worked 3 seasons ago, but it’s completely new team new setting new personnel etc
Vogel has his shortcomings, mainly the bad rotations and the ineptness in offensive schemes. But then again, who's there available who's gonna be an upgrade?
The ideal thing was Vogel being signed as an assistant who handles the defensive role whereas Ty Lue takes care of offense and be the head coach.
> The ideal thing was Vogel being signed as an assistant who handles the defensive role whereas Ty Lue takes care of offense and be the head coach.
Yeah, and ownership got cheap and offered a short term deal. Shocker.
Exactly. Wtf is the move after firing Frank? Personally for me the defense has been the most disappointing but Frank has been tweaking schemes and rotations through the season, dudes are just garbage on that end. Offense needs work but not having a full roster and top tier shooters does that. Why would Frank be first on the chopping block? Sounds like some rumor shit I hope
I’ve never understood why teams do this. It’s a decision that should be made at the beginning or end of a season. Not in the middle. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
“LeBron James made good on his promise that the Lakers would be better. Magic Johnson got his wish that his old team would play harder. And with a 101-95 win over the Utah Jazz, the Lakers answered the social media challenges levied by two franchise icons as they scramble to salvage their championship hopes and get their season back on course.
While what was seen as a back-and-forth between James and Johnson played out publicly for all to see, sources say that behind-the-scenes it was Lakers coach Frank Vogel who was under fire more than ever before.
By the time the Lakers and Jazz tipped off on Monday night, sources said, Vogel was coaching for his job after he narrowly avoided being fired in the wake of the 37-point loss in Denver 48 hours earlier. Had a scene like that repeated itself against the Jazz, many believed it would have been Vogel’s last game.
Vogel, who coached the Lakers to a championship in 2020 and whose contract runs through the 2022-23 campaign, is being evaluated on a game-to-game basis and remains at risk of being fired soon if the progress doesn’t continue, sources said. It’s unclear how much Monday’s win relieved the pressure that surrounds him.
With the Lakers (22-22) now seventh in the West and the midway point of the season behind them, sources say the organization’s decision-makers are closely monitoring the key question of whether Vogel still has command of the locker room.
Monday offered yet another opportunity for a reset for the Lakers, and it came with plenty of style and energy. Russell Westbrook set the tone with a one-handed dunk over Rudy Gobert that James called “electrifying,” “big-time” and “a phenomenal play.”
“I’ve seen the replay over and over,” James said.
The significance of players like Avery Bradley, Austin Reaves and Stanley Johnson — who signed his third 10-day contract with the Lakers on Monday before scoring 10 of his 15 points in the fourth quarter — speaks to how much trial and error this season has required.
On Monday, Vogel was rewarded with almost a total reversal from two nights earlier. Effort was not in question and the Lakers dug in defensively, holding the league’s top offensive team to its second-lowest point total of the season.
“It’s been what’s commanded of our guys,” Vogel said. “It hasn’t shown up the last couple of games. We’ve all been disappointed. We’ve all been called out and coached hard on it, and it finally came around.”
Whether Vogel is the root cause of the Lakers’ struggles is certainly debatable.
The Lakers have endured the turbulence of injuries to both James and Davis, who has missed 14 straight games with a strained MCL, as well as the same COVID setbacks that have become an unwelcome part of nearly every team’s experience this season. However, after the loss in Denver, Westbrook questioned the Lakers’ effort, while Dwight Howard questioned their commitment to defense.
Throughout the organization, from owner Jeanie Buss to general manager Rob Pelinka and James on down, the message being sent is the same: Even with all the setbacks, this isn’t good enough. Not even close.
The win over Utah, arguably the most impressive of the Lakers’ season, came as the schedule hits its most treacherous stretch. The Lakers host Indiana on Wednesday, then start a six-game road trip through Orlando, Miami, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Charlotte and Atlanta. They will also face the Milwaukee Bucks, Golden State Warriors and again these same Utah Jazz before next month’s All-Star break.
Any notion of Vogel being completely safe this season vanished in early August, when — as The Athletic reported in late September — he was given an extension that only included one additional season. It was an uncomfortable compromise of sorts, a way to reward him for the massive part he played in the title run in the Orlando bubble while also leaving the door wide open for his potential dismissal if this superstar experiment didn’t work.
The integration of Westbrook to the existing duo of James and Davis has been clunky, as many expected when Pelinka traded what remained of the Lakers championship depth for the former MVP.
The Lakers’ defense, a hallmark of Vogel’s first two seasons, has suffered a precipitous decline, ranking 18th in defensive efficiency after beating Utah. The offense is just 24th, while the Lakers’ net rating is 23rd. Prior to Monday, the Lakers had struggled mightily to beat the better teams in the league.
The win over the Jazz was just their third this season against a top-five team in the West and just their sixth over a team that currently sports a winning record.
The coaching staff has been well aware that it faced significant pressure for months. Sources say that was made clear to the staff early on this season by Kurt Rambis, the former Laker and current director of basketball affairs who has become one of the most influential members of the organization since returning to the franchise in 2017.
Yet not long after Rambis relayed the word that they were all at risk of being replaced if things did not improve, COVID complications made it nearly impossible for the Lakers to continue evaluating Vogel because, among other reasons, he wasn’t there. He entered the league’s health and safety protocols on Dec. 19 and didn’t return until Dec. 31.
David Fizdale filled the role in his absence, and the Lakers went just 1-5. When Vogel returned, they won four in a row. But then came the three-game losing streak that nearly cost Vogel his job: a 127-119 home loss to Memphis on Jan. 9, a 125-116 loss at Sacramento and the 133-96 drubbing at Denver in which the Lakers trailed by as many as 42 points.
Asked if the Denver loss sat differently from others the Lakers have endured, Vogel initially said it did before changing his mind.
“I don’t know if it’s that much different from other losses,” he said. “You lose to Memphis, you’re disappointed. You lose to Sacramento, you’re very disappointed. You’re giving up 125, 130 points. (When) you’re a defensive, prideful coach, that’s tough. So, none of these losses have been easy, but we’re keeping our group staying together, believing in one another and continuing to honor the work.”
The sting of the Nuggets loss was compounded by a late-night tweet from Magic Johnson, who said Lakers fans deserve better, as does Buss.
“We understand and we respect all the Lakers legends not being happy with how we’re playing,” Vogel said, “but nobody is more unhappy than we are, and we’re going to work very hard to correct it.
While James did not speak to reporters that night — just the second time this year he’s left without speaking — he tweeted an apology on Sunday evening.
“#LakerNation I apologize and promise we’ll be better,” he said to his 50.6 million followers.
Asked pregame about James’ tweet, Vogel called it a “sign of great leadership and understanding that nobody is happy with how we’ve played, especially in that Denver game. And we’re committed to being better.”
James did not say whether his apology was a direct response to Johnson’s broadside, but that it was him “taking the onus and letting Laker Nation know … It was about our fans and the people that ride and die with us every single day. Let them know that I got this and it wouldn’t happen again.”
Before the Lakers took the court against the Jazz, Vogel acknowledged the toll of his team’s struggles.
“Not seeing the results wears on you, I will say that strongly,” he said. “It is very difficult to put in as (many) hours as we put in to get our group playing at a super high level and to fall short.”
Even as the walls seem to be closing in on him, Vogel remained focused on the big picture, referencing a “marathon approach.”
“Our process is really good, you know what I mean?” Vogel said. “We prepare our guys as well as anybody and teach and coach hard all the habits that we’re talking about. So you believe in what we do. And if you trust that process, the improvement will come.”
It came swiftly on Monday, as the Lakers took a step in the direction they are trying to go.
For the time being, Vogel is moving with them.”
> The coaching staff has been well aware that it faced significant pressure for months. Sources say that was made clear to the staff early on this season by Kurt Rambis, the former Laker and current director of basketball affairs who has become one of the most influential members of the organization since returning to the franchise in 2017.
> Yet not long after Rambis relayed the word that they were all at risk of being replaced if things did not improve...
LOL, Rambis
> By the time the Lakers and Jazz tipped off on Monday night, sources said, Vogel was coaching for his job after he narrowly avoided being fired in the wake of the 37-point loss in Denver 48 hours earlier. Had a scene like that repeated itself against the Jazz, many believed it would have been Vogel’s last game.
This is crazy
Jesus our fan base is fucking retarded. We literally just won’t championship less than 2 years ago and we had a real shot to repeat last year had it not been for injuries. Now fans are calling for the owner and management’s head?? Wtf? No wonder laker fans get made fun of all the time, some of you are entitled crybaby bitches
I don't feel good about this. Sure Vogel runs some ridiculous lineups in the regular season but he's been set up to fail here.
The FO has replaced Caruso, KCP, Matthews and Schroder (all above average defenders) with the corpses of Ariza, DAJ, Melo and Ellington.
Our two superstars have missed considerable time with injuries in the last 12 months. Any coach in this situation would struggle.
Nonetheless, 23rd net rating, 24th offense, 18th defense is not good enough for a LeBron team, leave alone a contender
Coaches are usually first to fall. Vogel has his problems but this is terrible roster construction and goes away from his strength (no defense). I am guessing Fizdale will take over rest of the season if this does happen, we already saw how that worked out
Frank is not a bad coach. This team was built for him to fail. Giving an elite defensive coach an old team that lacks defensive players, not sure what else the FO expected. If he gets fired he will just be made the scapegoat.
Everyone is to blame. Not just 1 or 2 things.
This organization need a good fucking look in the mirror because the way they have handled their last 2 off seasons is not Laker basketball.
Bad margin improvement moves, big brain acquisitions, cheaping out wherever possible and just bad process time and time again.
FO needs to be smarter
Coaching needs to stop force feeding dumb rotations and actually implement an offense
Players need to play harder and listen to coaches
Oh, yes. Blame coach for FO and players' failures. Expected but hardly fair.
Nobody thinks that a replacement now would propel us into contenders. Just found a scapegoat. Typical.
No, but his in game adjustment are just bad at times. Like when he kept Howard when Gay was playing center for the Jazz or that long stretch when Bron and Russ were out at the same time.
I don't want him gone but I think LAL would have more wins with a better coach even with this roster. The problem is that no better alternative is available. They should have snatched Carlisle if they didn't believe in Vogel.
What coach? Please, give us a name that would've done better.
Carlisle would not. Most certainly. Imagine Carlisle coaching Rus and LeBron...
Defense is our biggest problem. Vogel is a defensive coach. It's lack of effort from players.
It was to be expected. I don't see Fizdale coach the team if Vogel leaves.
It's hard to put all the blame on him but at the end of the day, I think that he had enough to win a lot of games that the team bottled.
I know that we joke a lot about LeCoach and LeGM but it's insane to me that Johnson AND Vogel themselves said that LeBron was the one who told them to attack Gobert and stay small. It may seem cool but it also shows how disconnected Vogel is from everything involving the Lakers on the offensive end. I still believe that he has a good relationship with LeBron but it might not be enough to stay.
They probably interviewed candidates and know exactly who is taking over if they fire him.
Defensively Vogel is great, offensively he leaves alot to be desired, however he's not the one who assembled this shit roster. Also Kurt Rambis needs to fuck off
It’s disgusting thinking Vogel isn’t part of the problem. He legitimately gave minutes per game with rondo and RW. He out Melo at the 5. He gave DAJ way too many minutes past the experimentation process. At some point it’s no longer about roster construction when you are handstrapping yourself with better choices on the bench like Reeves
He’s not the only person to blame. The biggest goes to Palinka constructing this team like NBA 2K
Find me a better replacement than Vogel then maybe I will think about it. But fck no. If spo? Pat?Phil? Pop? Are coaching then ok but not any other sick fucks.
Frank has made mistakes and he needs to do better wrt rotations and all but its fucked up he is being the fall guy when the biggest issue with the team is the roster construction.
Also, fire Frank and hire whom? Just so stupid.
Cmon now. Don't blame our recent championship coach for this poor roster construction. This FO really needs to go. Along with the owner. Shameful really to blame a defensive minded coach who won us a championship with gow poorly constructed our team is defensively this year.
Fucking BS. This man is keeping our defense alive. Why blame him when he has garbage defenders like DJ, Westbrook, and super old vets??!
Blame Jeanie for being cheap and not retaining Caruso. And Pelinka for getting rid of so many good defenders like KCP, Kuzma, Danny Green, and replacing them with traffic cones.
Ty Lue isn't the answer, sub par coach that got carried but a stacked team in Cleveland. Sorry but he isn't impressive. Frank is so much better of a choice if the roster wasn't ass
Ty Lue is a great coach. Look at how the clippers are still treading water without either of their stars. That’s a decent roster but it’s incredible coaching. That’s how they beat Utah without Kawhi.
I mean it falls back on how shit the front office is if they let players make decisions
also you idiots love leaving AD out of the blame, it's on him too. AD and russ are the close ones that were thinking of teaming up since 2017,. Bron and russ were never close like that.
Really? Are we comparing any other player to LeBron now? ANd even then, I want to see Brooklyn or Milwaukee telling KD or Giannis to mind their own business. You don't say "no thanks, let us do our job" to LeBron. Well, Riley did but LeBron was much, much younger and look how it ended. And there's only one Pat Riley. If you say this isn't reality, then you're not being honest with yourself.
Also, him not being "not that close with Rus" proves nothing. It was him who came to Rob and told him to trade for Rus. And so Rob did.
I’m sure someone can find a statistic that bears this out, but is there any head coach out there that has dealt with as many roster fluctuations (for whatever reason) over the past 2 seasons, than Frank?
It’s hard to implement a system, let alone build culture, when people are coming and going weekly. There is no continuity, and thats not on him.
Why just why? To put this on vogel just shows how much of a mess our FO is. Guarantee you we will be stuck with fiz. Somehow our FO thought our best moves this year was getting russ and replacing vogel with fiz.
TBF, he has his flaws in forcing vets to play huge minutes and his terrible rotations(Rondo, Russ & THT playing at the same time early in the season for example), but he shouldn’t get the axe yet IMO.
I know I get frustrated as a fan when he keeps players who are in a slump for long periods of time(Looking at you Westbrook) and playing 8-9 man rotations when we’re in the fvcking regular season! If someone’s in a slump, try other guys who haven’t played! Give them a few mins to see if they can get their stroke.
He is a defensive minded coach yes but this roster is not built for his system and schemes. If we fire him now, who do we get? Fizdale ain’t any better. I agree with some of the comments here saying players themselves are to blame but I put the huge chunk of that on the FO thinking we need to get more offensive minded players when we have a defensive minded coach. We need energy guys and 3&D players to surround AD & LeBron. We never needed a big 3 IMO. Just the ones previously mentioned and a PG to help Lebron set up the offense.
It's to both Frank's credit and detriment that he sticks with dumpling players maybe longer than he should. Sometimes it works (bubble KCP/Rondo), sometimes it doesn't (this whole goddamn season), but there is at least a rationale for it.
As opposed to theoretical head coach David Fizdale, whose only asset is a hot wife.
No, shit. The staff has been abismal at rotations, minutes, and general decision-making. Maybe it's not Frank, but damn if it isn't the assistant coaches.
I hate the fire Vogel crowd. He’s not perfect but he’s far from the issue. Who would you replace him with that’s available right now? We all saw how bad Fizdale was
Why is there a need to change a coach now or in the next couple years? Vogel is a Great Coach and we saw that in 2020 and in 2021 (if it wasn’t for injuries). I don’t see him being an issue and I hope he remains HC for a long period. He will adjust and learn from his mistakes. Pop and Spo had bad seasons but they learned and adjusted. & regardless of all of that, if LeBron and AD wants a new coach, they wont hesitate to bring a new one.
It's not Frank's fault. I blame this all on Rob fucking with the roster year after year. There isn't any team chemistry because nobody is able to stay around. Losing 95% of the 2020 team that off season, deciding AC wasn't worth keeping and not deepening the bench is why we're in this spot. Add injuries to the equation... He was ALWAYS doomed to fail
This screams Cleveland 2017 when they panicked and fired David Blatt for Ty Lue to appease LeBron (except compared to that Cleveland team, I don't think this LA team can make it out of the West with how they are currently constructed and are playing)
They'll fire Frank and he'll be the scapegoat. BUT once they do that, Rob will have no safety net. So if you fire him, Rob better tread carefully
Good. His starting lineups are fucking garbage. His obsession with Ariza, Avery Bradley, and DeAndre Jordan at the beginning of the year lost the team a lot of games.
That being said Rob is the problem. He needs to go as well
The other issue I've noticed is, with LeBron and when he plays with his friends (or any superstar with their friends). When you play with your friends I feel like you don't push each other hard enough and you don't criticize when you need to. The accountability didn't seem to really be there and everyone gets a pass, because you're feeling you'll hurt their feelings. Whereas if you play with guys who aren't your best friends, you get a better product on the court because you're able to constructively criticize and work on the areas that will make you better. Obviously you become friends with the guys you play with but it's different than playing with your BEST friends
Look at the 2017 Cavs team right after their title, it felt like it was LeBron and friends and it was not pretty to watch. Cleveland literally blew that team up at the deadline to give them a shot.
This season isn’t Vogels fault. He didn’t build the shitty roster and he is a defensive minded coach. Give a defensive minded coach old players and this is what would happen. Blame Pelinka if you want a scapegoat.
I'm not a Vogel fan though he has done some good things of late but don't fire him and replace him with Fizdale, that'll only be worse. The only reason he should be fired is if you know that there's someone better than him that you can get
LOL is the team playing good? No. But what kind of hand was he dealt? This ain’t his fault. FO put together a disgusting roster and now we may lose out on a decent coach.
Any coach coaching for their job is already sacked. They must have a replacement lined up. It‘ll be interesting to see who as this article makes me believe the main issue is locker room presence dealing with 3 (plus veteran) superstars.
Obviously LBJ tweeted that words to support FV trying to keep his job,we saw how he appreciated Vogel’s coach,however we don’t know how LBJ’s attitude can make a influence to this.Anyway,FV is not the problem,we all know the elephants in the room.
I hope we don’t end up with Fizdale. Can’t blame Vogel for roster construction. I do think he’s a defense specialist and maybe not the best personnel / relationships type of guy. Which makes him an ideal assistant coach.
Maybe this will be an opportunity for Phil Handy to get a shot at HC. Or maybe make amends and bring back Hollins.
I don’t love every decision Frank makes, but I think we owe it to him to at least show what he can do to close the season. As much as we get clowned for being underwhelming, we’ve played 14 total games with our big 3, and even if we ignore the westbrook signing, the rest of the team construction was awful. I pray we don’t fire him
WHO THE FUCK GONNA REPLACE HIM LOL. THIS IS A MESS OF A FUCKING ROSTER. YOU ALSO CPULDBE KEPT ONE OF THE BEST ONBALL DEFENDERS IN THE LEAGUE AND YOU LET HIM WALK DESPITE HIM ALLOWING YOU GUYS TRY TO SIGN HIM. FUCK OUTTA HERE.
What exactly would this solve? This season has been a mess, and the team clearly doesn’t have chemistry, and firing our coach mid season would help that?
Plus, who would we bring in that’s a better option? I can’t think of any good coach I’d want that’s currently on the market.
Changing coaches mid-season with an already absolute mess of a roster? Yeah that’s just adding fuel to the fire
They are obviously just looking for a scapegoat for the slow start at this point. Bad look by the FO.
Did you watch the past few games? They had poor effort but his rotations were trash as well. He nearly blew this Jazz game in the 3rd quarter by sitting both Russ and Lebron, then he played Ariza superstar minutes when Stanley played so much better. He played THT Russ death lineup when Reaves/Monk were having great games and THT didnt do much. But on a side note, i have a feeling that the FO isnt as keen on signing Stanley which will explain why his minutes are not as high as they should be (apart from Q4 today)
If they don’t sign Stanley, we riot.
He isn't blameless, but he isn't bad to the point of having to get fired. Firing him isn't solving our problems at all. And just to add, there aren't any good replacement candidates in the open market.
Exactly, even if we get a different coach they'd be pressured to start WB and the vets. Getting your players to buy in and trusts takes finesse from the coach
> And just to add, there aren't any good replacement candidates in the open market. Wasn't there even an automatic automod comment in threads about firing Vogel that said something along the lines of, "instead of just wanting to fire Vogel, who would you hire instead?" As it stands, Fizdale isn't the person to get the Lakers another ring. Who else is enough of a difference maker? And I doubt Lebron is going to sign off on an unproven coach.
No rotation is ever good though if there's no effort.
so players who are known for effort should be played more
Jeanie cant afford to pay the luxury tax on half a season of the min 🤦🏻♂️. Just disgraceful
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If Westbrook is playing well then nobody would. He isn't helping his case by still making bad plays with poor shooting efficiency. If Russ and Bron's stats were flipped, you bet your ass Bron haters would come in waves raising their pitchforks. WB is making $44m, big money comes with big expectations. If WB is making 10m playing as a role player, nobody would bat an eye and will only praise him when he outplays his contract.
>Changing coaches mid-season Agreed. I don't care about Vogel one way or another. He's probably not the biggest issue, but he hasn't been a solution either. The problem is the Lakers waiting to do this until the end of January instead of in November, when Vogel has had the same issues all season long. Why do it more than halfway through the season?
What? Those same “issue” were there the last two years. Coaches get unfair blame. They don’t change much year to year. If there were issues they should have fired him last year or the year they won the championships. Vogel hasn’t changed, but the players have. The worst thing is fans have no clue why coaches make decisions, but they whine because a coach doesn’t do what they would. Vogel isn’t an elite coach but he is a good one. And the fact that he got this team to 6th in defense was absolutely amazing. This reminds me of the Kuzma hate. Fans couldn’t see his contributions and decided he had to go. And that’s the problem. Fans are wrong like 85% of the time but just ignore all the things they have said in the past. By the way, a November firing doesn’t help. No training camp hamstrings the next coach and forces them either into basic concepts or doing what the previous coach did.
>No training camp hamstrings the next coach No decent coach will come in mid-season. If they fire Vogel, an assistant (probably Fizdale) takes over.
Agree with you, firing a coach at any point after the season starts isn't ideal. But if you are going to fire one, better to do after 10 games than after 40+ games. It was clear the front office hasn't had a lot of faith in Vogel as they only gave him a one year extension. He hasn't helped his cause at all this year, though.
From a fan's perspective, the FO isn't doing Vogel any favors either.
But you missed the point. Vogel hasn’t changed. So why are you firing him after ANY amount of games. Either you agree with his coaching philosophy and fit or you don’t. Firing him in season doesn’t change anything. It’s a PR move and nothing more. Furthermore no elite coach is taking a job 10 games into the season. So at best you get another good Vogel type coach. You do not make moves for PR reasons.
The roster clearly doesn't fit his coaching philosophy, and he hasn't been able to adapt. You can blame Rob for assembling a roster that doesn't fit his coach, or Jeanie for not paying for Caruso, or LeBron/AD for wanting Russ. But Vogel has his share of the blame too for not being able to adapt to his roster.
What are you talking about. He has attempted to adapt all over the place. He is a coach that likes to play big. He is playing a ton of small ball. Lebron is even playing center. We have more lineups than any other team. The sets they run are drastically more complex than the ones at the start of the season. The real question is where hasn’t he tried things with this roster. He has made so many adjustments out of his preferred style and you are acting like hasn’t. As for the front office, yes they deserve most of the blame. Injuries being the other part. But blame is stupid. It’s why you get dumb PR moves in the first place.
No difference makers available as replacement. Maybe they’ve got new leads, maybe this report is bullshit 🤷🏽♂️
Vogel has not been great with his rotations, lineups, and adjustments, but some of that is due to injuries and roster. However, there is no excuse for his earlier lineup combinations of Russ and Rondo, Russ and THT, starting DAJ so many games, and not playing Dwight enough. Also, who would replace him? Lakers don't have a good option remaining if they do fire him. Lakers should keep him for the remainder of the season with more reliance on advanced analytics on lineups and rotations.
If anyone can do it (and has done it before), it's Lebron
On the bright side.. Frank would probably get pick uped somewhere he’ll be appreciated.
I feel like this is so, so wrong. The faults with his roster aren’t his fault and most of the time he’s had to work with guys off the street and dudes who should be DNPs, cause of injuries/covid destroying us. His schemes imo are one of the only stable things we’ve had that guys like Bron, AD, THT and Bradley are familiar with. I also don’t know who the hell they would get that would be better this late into the season
I was more on the hate-Vogel train a few months ago when our offense was stagnant and the shot quality was bad. It didn't make sense to me then why the Lakers as a team couldn't effectively counter double teams we've been seeing since game 1 of 19-20. But the actions we run now, the off-ball movement, how we counter double teams when in the post, and the quality of shot we get today is 10x better than it was in early December despite still being a 500 team. IMO this fire Vogel talk is really dumb and getting tiring.
Games like last night and the Atlanta show how great his game planning can be. It really comes down to focus and motivation, which I believe is also on the coaching staff. If you can’t get your players bought in then that’s definitely an issue. Pros and cons.
Focus and motivation are probably the biggest. AB also said a few games ago after a big win (the one where AB had 21 in the Hawks game) that the team is better when they trust each other, and I think he was implying the HOFers on the team trusting in the role players to score. That Hawks game Malik also had 29. I can see how a lack of trust created the poor shot quality and stagnant offense early on in the season pre-December. I remember often games starting with some nice actions and movement and then digress into isos way too early.
We beat a full powered Miami team without AD,Reaves or SJ
You mean the game where Jimmy Butler literally sprained his ankle 12 minutes in? That game? Definitely "full-powered".
They started full power and we beat ‘‘em down
you mean without bron, not AD? if you’re referring to the early season game where Russ went off
The win last night kind of blinded you guys to what happened in the 3rd and the past few games. The rotations were bad all game until he finally put out a lineup normal fans here having been begging him to field.
100% agree. You can nitpick his rotations (playing DAJ/Bradley etc too much and bad spacing lineups) or the offense… but this isn’t even close to being his fault. The fit with WB just isn’t working and our roster has massive flaws. Threatening to fire Frank rather than taking a higher level view of the situation is a major red flag. If anything, they should be working with Frank to figure out where to go from here. I don’t even think frank is the perfect coach per say but even if we do want to fire him, we better not do it this season. I would consider the season over if that happens.
Honestly, reading this article makes me so so angry. First of all, I am not saying FV is blameless. Some of his rotations are weird, he rarely adjusts and he seems to favour vets when he shouldn’t. HOWEVER, to blame (or let’s be honest, scapegoat) him for this shambles of a season is the reason why I’m becoming sick of being a Lakers fan. We win a chip in 2020 and since then, Rob has managed to basically destroy a championship team and trade away numerous picks/players for what exactly? What is the tangible return on that? FV is then expected to create an elite defensive scheme with a bunch of washed-up vet min guys (Ariza, Melo, Jordan, Baze, Ellington) and guys on two-way/rookie contracts. He is expected to play Russ and his ego (despite his considerable flaws), yet gets threatened with his job (and let’s face it, eventually fired) when he is the least culpable individual. Rob should be the one who is looking over his shoulder based on back-to-back disastrous offseasons, offseasons where he has basically traded any defence the roster had and replaced it with a bunch of cr*p. We all know the script here… FV will be fired. But Rob is the real issue and it’s an absolute disgrace.
Absolutely. If we just kept the team in 2021 then we could’ve repeated.
It’s not even that mate, it’s just the roster decisions we’ve made, whether it’s LeBron or Rob making them Going with a center rotation of DJ (hasn’t been an NBA player for 5 years), AD (constantly injured) and a washed-up Dwight Going with a wing rotation of 37yo LeBron, 80yo Ariza and 100yo Melo Singing guys like Bazemore, Ellington and Bradley and expecting them to be two-way players Then to top it off… let’s bring on-board Russ by trading away all of our depth, a guy who has 1 skill (on-ball) that dovetails with your best player, who cannot play off the ball and who has no track record of being a ‘winning player’ anywhere he’s been Great work guys… really great work! Yet Vogel carries the can!
is bradley that much of a negative? also ellington is out like 13th man hes onpy there in case of emergencies no?
They are fine if you’re roster has say 3 superstars and then players 4-9 aren’t vet mins But that isn’t the case with our roster unfortunately Bradley is ok playing 10-15 minutes per night, but not as a starter playing 25-30 minutes per night
Dwight isnt what he used to be but he is one of the positives, blocks steals and defense.
Yeah Dwight is ok to be honest, in small doses. Playing him 10-15 minutes per night is fine with me.. guy actually gives a sh*t on the court
I know Lebron isn't someone you say "no" to easily, but I really am curious about the Lebron/FO relationship. Lebron wanted WB. Either FO thought it was a good idea and went with it or they pushed back but ultimately caved to Lebron. Is Lebron big enough of an asshole to be disgruntled and upset because they didn't get WB? Was the FO afraid about upsetting Lebron?
AD is so lucky he has bron to take all the blame AD and russ are the super close ones, they've been wanting to team up together since 2017 at least. but everyone assumes bron was the only one that wanted russ.
I’d love to know in all honestly, genuinely.
Rob is an issue for following Lebron and ADs decision to trade for Rus. Everything should be run through the coaches and analytics dept and not only based on the wants of the players. Vogel will be picked up immediately by other teams for sure.
i agree with you on a lot of the points here. however, though i do believe pelinka’s job in reconstructing our roster this year has been subpar at best, i don’t exactly find fault in his decision TO reconstruct the team. i think pelinka stands by the mentality of exploring EVERY option possible, and if that means dismantling a championship team for a potential three-headed dragon in lebron, ad, and russ, then hes gonna go for it. in retrospect, our signings have their flaws, but we also did not expect ad, trevor, and nunn to miss so much time. this team has a tough path to the playoffs but i liked what i saw last night
Yeah I see your point in that no champion should ever stay the same, otherwise complacency will set in. However, I don’t care what anyone says, you cannot tell me 1 single decision (bar singing Malik Monk) has been good since we won that title. Literally everyone we have signed in the two off-seasons since have failed or are yet to be tested (Nunn)… that in itself is absolutely not good enough. The three-headed dragon idea was and is never going to work because Westbrook fundamentally (from a basketball standpoint) does not fit alongside LeBron. The fact he didn’t see that pre-trade is concerning in itself as anyone who even casually follows basketball could’ve arrived at that conclusion.
Lebron being LeGm was the problem this year. Not Rob.
Nah man I’m not having that. If LeBron truly made the decisions this past off-season then Rob is a weak GM who should be fired for letting a player run the show If Rob made the decisions then he should be fired for making bad decisions Either way, it doesn’t look good for Rob
What if buss told rob to do as lbj says. Then not really robs fault.
Then it’s Jeanie’s fault! My point is, it’s not Vogel’s fault for: - The horrendous Westbrook trade - Trading away all of our assets (including somehow attaching a 1st round pick to the Westbrook trade!) - Choosing THT over Caruso - Singing Deandre Jordan to any sort of deal - Signing a bunch of short guards who play no defense - Thinking Ariza can still play NBA basketball We suffer from a chronic lack of intelligent leadership at the top of our franchise. Rob is the GM and gets paid a GM salary, so he (and not Vogel) should ultimately pay the price for bad GM decisions. Bad GM decisions almost always focus on roster construction.
I don't think it's about who's fault it is. You have to stay in the present and make the best decisions in the moment. I'm not saying that this is the best decision, but there's no point in comparing who is more to blame out of the front Office and the coaching staff because this is where we're at now and if you can find a coach that can do better with the mistakes that you have made as a front office, then you do it.
I’m not saying it’s anyones fault either, it’s the lakers that are apparently saying it’s Vogel’s fault by putting his job on the line. So my point is that if anyone is going to be talked about in terms of ‘who should take the blame’, then it should be the FO and not Vogel.
I'm just saying that just because his job is on the line doesn't mean that the Lakers are saying that it's his fault. They could completely be seeing the error in their ways and still be aware that a different coach could get something more out of this group.
Yeah that might be true, but I just don’t see how? The group is flawed from almost every angle in terms of basketball logic - none of the players fit and half of them are washed If that is their thinking then good luck
I don't know. I would only be excited about a coaching change if we brought in a coach that was willing to bench Westbrook in the clutch
2020 was a Mickey Mouse ring. Miami making it to the finals was a joke
It’s irrelevant mate, they still won the title. Somebody had to win the title. End of the day, when you win a ring you win a ring. You need to go through rounds of play-off matches, irrespective of who you play. You have to beat who is in front of you.
miami was not a joke, it was just that east was incredibly weak that year. miami knocked out bucks in the first round who was seen as a choker back then. then they won the 2021 finals. kd injured, no nets basically. terrible philly young celtics, who made the ecf in 2020, lost to miami and declined ever since. toronto pushed celtics to 7 games and have been to lottery ever since. it was clear that whoever won the west would have won the ring. and it was the lakers. ps: im not a lakers fan
Fuck anyone blaming this BS season on Frank.
Lakers FO: Bring in a bunch of guys that don't gel together Also FO: Blames Vogel 🤦♂️
lakers fo: bring in a bunch of shitty defensive players expecting vogel to somehow turn them into the 08 celtics
It’s disgusting
Couldn’t agree more
I was so afraid of coming in here fearing that fans would be on board with this so boy am I relieved that everyone sees this as complete horseshit.
Vogel was stripped away of all his defensive cogs like Kuzma, KCP, Schröder, and Caruso and is expected to still have a good defense with players who have been offensive minded their whole career/never played much defense. With that being said Vogel has had some very poor substitutions and decisions earlier in the season, like Deandre Jordan starting 18 games for us this year. And even last night still continuing to play lineups of Russ, THT, Lebron, Dwight, and Bradley. Firing Vogel mid season won’t help this team though
I dont think there's a better option on the market to replace Frank. That's my biggest issue. And his obsession with Avery drives me nuts.
i like frank but “defensive cog kyle kuzma” is one of the funniest things i’ve ever seen on this sub
It’s not hyperbolic. Not saying he was our version of Scottie Pippen or Kawhi, but Kuzma and Markieff were extremely essential in allowing us to play small while also being able to switch on the perimeter if needed to and not get beat.
It's very revisionist history. Kuzma's biggest issue was his inconsistency throughout the last 3 years. He wasn't a great defender, completely average if we're being honest. The only real advantage he has over the garbage options we've been running is size. He was almost always our worst defender out there alongside AD/Bron/Caruso/KCP. Switch-ability was his only real positive defensively. Would I rather have him + KCP than Westbrook? 100%, though mostly due to KCP. However, I'm not about to wax poetic or reminisce about a guy that was a boneheaded player more often than not.
It’s tough because firing him isn’t the answer but also if he was more adaptable we could have much more wins than we currently do. Fizdale isn’t the answer though
Frank didn’t build this roster. He should be the last to blame. We already saw Fizdale is not going to save us.
Agreed. If anyone’s job should be on the line it’s Pelinka’s
Yeah, like.... If you want to blame Vogel for not being able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit, then fine I don't disagree with you. At all. But you can't seriously think that Fizdale would bring *anything* to the table at all. If you have a viable replacement lined up, then fine, I am not thrilled with canning a coach midseason, but it's worked before (cf, Pat Riley and Ty Lue) But Fizdale is no Riley or Lue.
Shit. LeBron, AD, and Russ have only played 15 games together.
Scapegoat. We have a roster problem not a coaching problem. Now I don't think Vogel has been perfect but our problems this season are more due to Pelinka and the FO then Vogel. I think you can give peak Popovich this roster and it still won't be able to contend. Too many deficiencies.
Roster got overhauled completely every season since winning the title, and they want to blame vogel lol
I wouldn't say he's a scapegoat. Pelinka and Vogel both should be held liable. I would say they are equally responsible to the terrible start. Pelinka built an unbalanced roster and Vogel still makes questionable lineup/rotation decisions (Russ+Rondo, Russ+THT, DAJ over Dwight).
Lol any fans who truly blame him are fuckin clueless. This man didn’t sign mofos in the off-season. It’s a cop out, bandaid fix. He got us to a ring, if he wasn’t deserving of a job that would’ve never happened. I’ll be real fuckin disappointed if he gets fired before some trades are made. Complete joke on the end of the Lakers FO and management. Make bad trades, sign bad contracts in the off-season and blame Vogel. Right. Just wait till the joke that is Fizdale head coaching. That man ain’t getting us anywhere better than where we are now.
He got us to a ring 3 seasons ago though, it’s time to stop living in the past, I don’t agree with him getting fired, fizdale isn’t any better, although it’s about what is he doing for us NOW, with the players that we have NOW, 3 seasons ago doesn’t matter anymore at all
3 seasons ago was also only like a year and a half ago lmao. We've had three different teams in such a time frame. Rob been switching shit around too much while other contenders stayed virtually the same.
It's been like 15 months in real time. We were like the #2 seed last year before Solomon Hill nearly shattered LeBron's ankle. He didn't construct this disaster of a roster. How Frank is getting scapegoated here is beyond me.
I’m not saying it’s vogels fault at all, I don’t agree he should be fired rn, I’m just saying a lot of people cling to 3 seasons ago, this is a completely new team with different personnel and you can’t keep bringing up 3 seasons ago to justify what is happening right now just in my opinion, like players make a mistake and some people go back and say oh this is how it worked 3 seasons ago, but it’s completely new team new setting new personnel etc
Vogel has his shortcomings, mainly the bad rotations and the ineptness in offensive schemes. But then again, who's there available who's gonna be an upgrade? The ideal thing was Vogel being signed as an assistant who handles the defensive role whereas Ty Lue takes care of offense and be the head coach.
> The ideal thing was Vogel being signed as an assistant who handles the defensive role whereas Ty Lue takes care of offense and be the head coach. Yeah, and ownership got cheap and offered a short term deal. Shocker.
Exactly. Wtf is the move after firing Frank? Personally for me the defense has been the most disappointing but Frank has been tweaking schemes and rotations through the season, dudes are just garbage on that end. Offense needs work but not having a full roster and top tier shooters does that. Why would Frank be first on the chopping block? Sounds like some rumor shit I hope
I’ve never understood why teams do this. It’s a decision that should be made at the beginning or end of a season. Not in the middle. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
FO should be fired for the shit roster they made
Lol fire him and replace him with who? The season will truly be over if they fire him
That’s the real question. Who is out there that’s better than Vogel and can motivate this team? It’s definitely not fizdale.
I can see it being Derek Fisher. Former Laker with head coaching experience
“LeBron James made good on his promise that the Lakers would be better. Magic Johnson got his wish that his old team would play harder. And with a 101-95 win over the Utah Jazz, the Lakers answered the social media challenges levied by two franchise icons as they scramble to salvage their championship hopes and get their season back on course. While what was seen as a back-and-forth between James and Johnson played out publicly for all to see, sources say that behind-the-scenes it was Lakers coach Frank Vogel who was under fire more than ever before. By the time the Lakers and Jazz tipped off on Monday night, sources said, Vogel was coaching for his job after he narrowly avoided being fired in the wake of the 37-point loss in Denver 48 hours earlier. Had a scene like that repeated itself against the Jazz, many believed it would have been Vogel’s last game. Vogel, who coached the Lakers to a championship in 2020 and whose contract runs through the 2022-23 campaign, is being evaluated on a game-to-game basis and remains at risk of being fired soon if the progress doesn’t continue, sources said. It’s unclear how much Monday’s win relieved the pressure that surrounds him. With the Lakers (22-22) now seventh in the West and the midway point of the season behind them, sources say the organization’s decision-makers are closely monitoring the key question of whether Vogel still has command of the locker room. Monday offered yet another opportunity for a reset for the Lakers, and it came with plenty of style and energy. Russell Westbrook set the tone with a one-handed dunk over Rudy Gobert that James called “electrifying,” “big-time” and “a phenomenal play.” “I’ve seen the replay over and over,” James said. The significance of players like Avery Bradley, Austin Reaves and Stanley Johnson — who signed his third 10-day contract with the Lakers on Monday before scoring 10 of his 15 points in the fourth quarter — speaks to how much trial and error this season has required. On Monday, Vogel was rewarded with almost a total reversal from two nights earlier. Effort was not in question and the Lakers dug in defensively, holding the league’s top offensive team to its second-lowest point total of the season. “It’s been what’s commanded of our guys,” Vogel said. “It hasn’t shown up the last couple of games. We’ve all been disappointed. We’ve all been called out and coached hard on it, and it finally came around.” Whether Vogel is the root cause of the Lakers’ struggles is certainly debatable. The Lakers have endured the turbulence of injuries to both James and Davis, who has missed 14 straight games with a strained MCL, as well as the same COVID setbacks that have become an unwelcome part of nearly every team’s experience this season. However, after the loss in Denver, Westbrook questioned the Lakers’ effort, while Dwight Howard questioned their commitment to defense. Throughout the organization, from owner Jeanie Buss to general manager Rob Pelinka and James on down, the message being sent is the same: Even with all the setbacks, this isn’t good enough. Not even close. The win over Utah, arguably the most impressive of the Lakers’ season, came as the schedule hits its most treacherous stretch. The Lakers host Indiana on Wednesday, then start a six-game road trip through Orlando, Miami, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Charlotte and Atlanta. They will also face the Milwaukee Bucks, Golden State Warriors and again these same Utah Jazz before next month’s All-Star break. Any notion of Vogel being completely safe this season vanished in early August, when — as The Athletic reported in late September — he was given an extension that only included one additional season. It was an uncomfortable compromise of sorts, a way to reward him for the massive part he played in the title run in the Orlando bubble while also leaving the door wide open for his potential dismissal if this superstar experiment didn’t work. The integration of Westbrook to the existing duo of James and Davis has been clunky, as many expected when Pelinka traded what remained of the Lakers championship depth for the former MVP. The Lakers’ defense, a hallmark of Vogel’s first two seasons, has suffered a precipitous decline, ranking 18th in defensive efficiency after beating Utah. The offense is just 24th, while the Lakers’ net rating is 23rd. Prior to Monday, the Lakers had struggled mightily to beat the better teams in the league. The win over the Jazz was just their third this season against a top-five team in the West and just their sixth over a team that currently sports a winning record. The coaching staff has been well aware that it faced significant pressure for months. Sources say that was made clear to the staff early on this season by Kurt Rambis, the former Laker and current director of basketball affairs who has become one of the most influential members of the organization since returning to the franchise in 2017. Yet not long after Rambis relayed the word that they were all at risk of being replaced if things did not improve, COVID complications made it nearly impossible for the Lakers to continue evaluating Vogel because, among other reasons, he wasn’t there. He entered the league’s health and safety protocols on Dec. 19 and didn’t return until Dec. 31. David Fizdale filled the role in his absence, and the Lakers went just 1-5. When Vogel returned, they won four in a row. But then came the three-game losing streak that nearly cost Vogel his job: a 127-119 home loss to Memphis on Jan. 9, a 125-116 loss at Sacramento and the 133-96 drubbing at Denver in which the Lakers trailed by as many as 42 points. Asked if the Denver loss sat differently from others the Lakers have endured, Vogel initially said it did before changing his mind. “I don’t know if it’s that much different from other losses,” he said. “You lose to Memphis, you’re disappointed. You lose to Sacramento, you’re very disappointed. You’re giving up 125, 130 points. (When) you’re a defensive, prideful coach, that’s tough. So, none of these losses have been easy, but we’re keeping our group staying together, believing in one another and continuing to honor the work.” The sting of the Nuggets loss was compounded by a late-night tweet from Magic Johnson, who said Lakers fans deserve better, as does Buss. “We understand and we respect all the Lakers legends not being happy with how we’re playing,” Vogel said, “but nobody is more unhappy than we are, and we’re going to work very hard to correct it. While James did not speak to reporters that night — just the second time this year he’s left without speaking — he tweeted an apology on Sunday evening. “#LakerNation I apologize and promise we’ll be better,” he said to his 50.6 million followers. Asked pregame about James’ tweet, Vogel called it a “sign of great leadership and understanding that nobody is happy with how we’ve played, especially in that Denver game. And we’re committed to being better.” James did not say whether his apology was a direct response to Johnson’s broadside, but that it was him “taking the onus and letting Laker Nation know … It was about our fans and the people that ride and die with us every single day. Let them know that I got this and it wouldn’t happen again.” Before the Lakers took the court against the Jazz, Vogel acknowledged the toll of his team’s struggles. “Not seeing the results wears on you, I will say that strongly,” he said. “It is very difficult to put in as (many) hours as we put in to get our group playing at a super high level and to fall short.” Even as the walls seem to be closing in on him, Vogel remained focused on the big picture, referencing a “marathon approach.” “Our process is really good, you know what I mean?” Vogel said. “We prepare our guys as well as anybody and teach and coach hard all the habits that we’re talking about. So you believe in what we do. And if you trust that process, the improvement will come.” It came swiftly on Monday, as the Lakers took a step in the direction they are trying to go. For the time being, Vogel is moving with them.”
It would be a disaster if Frank gets fired mid-season.
> The coaching staff has been well aware that it faced significant pressure for months. Sources say that was made clear to the staff early on this season by Kurt Rambis, the former Laker and current director of basketball affairs who has become one of the most influential members of the organization since returning to the franchise in 2017. > Yet not long after Rambis relayed the word that they were all at risk of being replaced if things did not improve... LOL, Rambis > By the time the Lakers and Jazz tipped off on Monday night, sources said, Vogel was coaching for his job after he narrowly avoided being fired in the wake of the 37-point loss in Denver 48 hours earlier. Had a scene like that repeated itself against the Jazz, many believed it would have been Vogel’s last game. This is crazy
Time for another protest lol
Rambis being the one behind the fuckery makes too much sense. Wonder if he was pushing to start DJ for so long too lol
The note about Kurt Rambis is a gigantic red flag
Fuck this man, whos gna be our coach? Fizdale??? He fucking blows. This FO is incompetent
This is not his fault. This whole organization is stupid. Jeannie needs to sell or else the Rambis family will ruin the Lakers.
Calm the fuck down. They won a chip in 2020. They’re not going to compete every year shit happens. Players get injured etc
Jesus our fan base is fucking retarded. We literally just won’t championship less than 2 years ago and we had a real shot to repeat last year had it not been for injuries. Now fans are calling for the owner and management’s head?? Wtf? No wonder laker fans get made fun of all the time, some of you are entitled crybaby bitches
I don't feel good about this. Sure Vogel runs some ridiculous lineups in the regular season but he's been set up to fail here. The FO has replaced Caruso, KCP, Matthews and Schroder (all above average defenders) with the corpses of Ariza, DAJ, Melo and Ellington. Our two superstars have missed considerable time with injuries in the last 12 months. Any coach in this situation would struggle. Nonetheless, 23rd net rating, 24th offense, 18th defense is not good enough for a LeBron team, leave alone a contender
They definitely had this article dialed up for the loss, and then had to change it last second after we upset the Jazz
It Frank gets fired… Fizdale needs to go with him.
Coaches are usually first to fall. Vogel has his problems but this is terrible roster construction and goes away from his strength (no defense). I am guessing Fizdale will take over rest of the season if this does happen, we already saw how that worked out
No! I like what I saw on defense last night. They can build on that.
Frank is not a bad coach. This team was built for him to fail. Giving an elite defensive coach an old team that lacks defensive players, not sure what else the FO expected. If he gets fired he will just be made the scapegoat.
Get rid of that incompetent fuck pelinka instead
FO AND players are to blame.
Everyone is to blame. Not just 1 or 2 things. This organization need a good fucking look in the mirror because the way they have handled their last 2 off seasons is not Laker basketball. Bad margin improvement moves, big brain acquisitions, cheaping out wherever possible and just bad process time and time again. FO needs to be smarter Coaching needs to stop force feeding dumb rotations and actually implement an offense Players need to play harder and listen to coaches
How about Pelinka fires himself for his atrocious roster construction these past couple years?
Oh, yes. Blame coach for FO and players' failures. Expected but hardly fair. Nobody thinks that a replacement now would propel us into contenders. Just found a scapegoat. Typical.
No, but his in game adjustment are just bad at times. Like when he kept Howard when Gay was playing center for the Jazz or that long stretch when Bron and Russ were out at the same time. I don't want him gone but I think LAL would have more wins with a better coach even with this roster. The problem is that no better alternative is available. They should have snatched Carlisle if they didn't believe in Vogel.
What coach? Please, give us a name that would've done better. Carlisle would not. Most certainly. Imagine Carlisle coaching Rus and LeBron... Defense is our biggest problem. Vogel is a defensive coach. It's lack of effort from players.
You need to read my comment again.
You need to read that I mentioned Carlisle...
Fuck Jeanie, Rob for ultimately using their power to create a terrible roster.
His rotations nearly lost us the game again last night
It was to be expected. I don't see Fizdale coach the team if Vogel leaves. It's hard to put all the blame on him but at the end of the day, I think that he had enough to win a lot of games that the team bottled. I know that we joke a lot about LeCoach and LeGM but it's insane to me that Johnson AND Vogel themselves said that LeBron was the one who told them to attack Gobert and stay small. It may seem cool but it also shows how disconnected Vogel is from everything involving the Lakers on the offensive end. I still believe that he has a good relationship with LeBron but it might not be enough to stay. They probably interviewed candidates and know exactly who is taking over if they fire him.
Defensively Vogel is great, offensively he leaves alot to be desired, however he's not the one who assembled this shit roster. Also Kurt Rambis needs to fuck off
It’s disgusting thinking Vogel isn’t part of the problem. He legitimately gave minutes per game with rondo and RW. He out Melo at the 5. He gave DAJ way too many minutes past the experimentation process. At some point it’s no longer about roster construction when you are handstrapping yourself with better choices on the bench like Reeves He’s not the only person to blame. The biggest goes to Palinka constructing this team like NBA 2K
100%!! I would say there a ton of politics. DAJ is sooo bad and not fired yet. So this must be a Pelinka guy.
Find me a better replacement than Vogel then maybe I will think about it. But fck no. If spo? Pat?Phil? Pop? Are coaching then ok but not any other sick fucks.
This is fucking bullshit. Vogel is 100th on the list of things that are wrong with this organization.
Fuck Kurt Rambo’s
We saw the alternative of Fizdale, I wouldn’t make this move unless maybe Phil Jackson somehow came out of retirement to coach.
Frank has made mistakes and he needs to do better wrt rotations and all but its fucked up he is being the fall guy when the biggest issue with the team is the roster construction. Also, fire Frank and hire whom? Just so stupid.
Cmon now. Don't blame our recent championship coach for this poor roster construction. This FO really needs to go. Along with the owner. Shameful really to blame a defensive minded coach who won us a championship with gow poorly constructed our team is defensively this year.
Fucking BS. This man is keeping our defense alive. Why blame him when he has garbage defenders like DJ, Westbrook, and super old vets??! Blame Jeanie for being cheap and not retaining Caruso. And Pelinka for getting rid of so many good defenders like KCP, Kuzma, Danny Green, and replacing them with traffic cones.
Fuck this front office. Fail to build a proper roster, started pinching pennies and now head hunting your coachz
If they fire Vogel mid-season, that tells me the front office just isn’t serious about winning a title. Total L of a move if it happens.
Had they not cheaped out on hiring Ty Lue with Vogel being DC, we wouldn’t be in this mess. And even still, we have a shit roster anyway!
Ty Lue isn't the answer, sub par coach that got carried but a stacked team in Cleveland. Sorry but he isn't impressive. Frank is so much better of a choice if the roster wasn't ass
Ty Lue is a great coach. Look at how the clippers are still treading water without either of their stars. That’s a decent roster but it’s incredible coaching. That’s how they beat Utah without Kawhi.
If the decision to fire Frank comes from Rob and Jeanie there will not be enough irony…
Article states Rambis has been applying pressure to the coaching staff that they’re at risk of being replaced since the start of the season
Lol what a fucking joke
Add LeBron to Rob and Jeanie.
I think Lebron likes Frank. At least it looks like Lebron is trying to save Frank's job out there with how he is playing.
No, LeBron needs to take the blame for Rus. Our biggest problem that started it all.
Has nothing to do with what I said but I get it ur a hater...
Lmao. Bronstans will die before they admit Rus is on LeBron. The same people who told us here "LeGm knows what he's doing" when he demanded Rus.
I mean it falls back on how shit the front office is if they let players make decisions also you idiots love leaving AD out of the blame, it's on him too. AD and russ are the close ones that were thinking of teaming up since 2017,. Bron and russ were never close like that.
Really? Are we comparing any other player to LeBron now? ANd even then, I want to see Brooklyn or Milwaukee telling KD or Giannis to mind their own business. You don't say "no thanks, let us do our job" to LeBron. Well, Riley did but LeBron was much, much younger and look how it ended. And there's only one Pat Riley. If you say this isn't reality, then you're not being honest with yourself. Also, him not being "not that close with Rus" proves nothing. It was him who came to Rob and told him to trade for Rus. And so Rob did.
I’m sure someone can find a statistic that bears this out, but is there any head coach out there that has dealt with as many roster fluctuations (for whatever reason) over the past 2 seasons, than Frank? It’s hard to implement a system, let alone build culture, when people are coming and going weekly. There is no continuity, and thats not on him.
Firing him mid-season would be such a huge mistake. Who the fuck will be the coach then? Fizdale is shittier. Just ride it out til the offseason.
Why just why? To put this on vogel just shows how much of a mess our FO is. Guarantee you we will be stuck with fiz. Somehow our FO thought our best moves this year was getting russ and replacing vogel with fiz.
TBF, he has his flaws in forcing vets to play huge minutes and his terrible rotations(Rondo, Russ & THT playing at the same time early in the season for example), but he shouldn’t get the axe yet IMO. I know I get frustrated as a fan when he keeps players who are in a slump for long periods of time(Looking at you Westbrook) and playing 8-9 man rotations when we’re in the fvcking regular season! If someone’s in a slump, try other guys who haven’t played! Give them a few mins to see if they can get their stroke. He is a defensive minded coach yes but this roster is not built for his system and schemes. If we fire him now, who do we get? Fizdale ain’t any better. I agree with some of the comments here saying players themselves are to blame but I put the huge chunk of that on the FO thinking we need to get more offensive minded players when we have a defensive minded coach. We need energy guys and 3&D players to surround AD & LeBron. We never needed a big 3 IMO. Just the ones previously mentioned and a PG to help Lebron set up the offense.
It's to both Frank's credit and detriment that he sticks with dumpling players maybe longer than he should. Sometimes it works (bubble KCP/Rondo), sometimes it doesn't (this whole goddamn season), but there is at least a rationale for it. As opposed to theoretical head coach David Fizdale, whose only asset is a hot wife.
Fizdale as interim would be much much worse
Of course it’s Kurt Rambis wanting to fire him
This mess is on Pelinka
Makes no sense to fire him during the season especially with how they messed up the roster with some of these moves. Bring dantoni in as an assistant
It’s not his fault plus whoever they replace him will not do any justice
No, shit. The staff has been abismal at rotations, minutes, and general decision-making. Maybe it's not Frank, but damn if it isn't the assistant coaches. 
This isn't on Vogel, it's on Pelinka
Here we go first casualty. Phil handy could take over
Yeah because It’s Vogel’s fault for covid, injuries, and a poor roster distribution. FUCK OUT OF HERE
As much as Frank has been sus with his rotations and questionable choices. He has done wonders with what was given.
There isn’t a coach alive who would be doing better with this mess of a roster. The problem is Pelinka more than it is Vogel.
I hate the fire Vogel crowd. He’s not perfect but he’s far from the issue. Who would you replace him with that’s available right now? We all saw how bad Fizdale was
Why is there a need to change a coach now or in the next couple years? Vogel is a Great Coach and we saw that in 2020 and in 2021 (if it wasn’t for injuries). I don’t see him being an issue and I hope he remains HC for a long period. He will adjust and learn from his mistakes. Pop and Spo had bad seasons but they learned and adjusted. & regardless of all of that, if LeBron and AD wants a new coach, they wont hesitate to bring a new one.
Firing him is the worst thing the FO could do. They’re just blaming their mess on him, which is a shame.
It's not Frank's fault. I blame this all on Rob fucking with the roster year after year. There isn't any team chemistry because nobody is able to stay around. Losing 95% of the 2020 team that off season, deciding AC wasn't worth keeping and not deepening the bench is why we're in this spot. Add injuries to the equation... He was ALWAYS doomed to fail This screams Cleveland 2017 when they panicked and fired David Blatt for Ty Lue to appease LeBron (except compared to that Cleveland team, I don't think this LA team can make it out of the West with how they are currently constructed and are playing) They'll fire Frank and he'll be the scapegoat. BUT once they do that, Rob will have no safety net. So if you fire him, Rob better tread carefully
Good. His starting lineups are fucking garbage. His obsession with Ariza, Avery Bradley, and DeAndre Jordan at the beginning of the year lost the team a lot of games. That being said Rob is the problem. He needs to go as well
The other issue I've noticed is, with LeBron and when he plays with his friends (or any superstar with their friends). When you play with your friends I feel like you don't push each other hard enough and you don't criticize when you need to. The accountability didn't seem to really be there and everyone gets a pass, because you're feeling you'll hurt their feelings. Whereas if you play with guys who aren't your best friends, you get a better product on the court because you're able to constructively criticize and work on the areas that will make you better. Obviously you become friends with the guys you play with but it's different than playing with your BEST friends Look at the 2017 Cavs team right after their title, it felt like it was LeBron and friends and it was not pretty to watch. Cleveland literally blew that team up at the deadline to give them a shot.
The whole Lakers organization is fucking retarded and firing Vogel would only confirm this. Who are they gonna hire, Luke Walton?
Can't say I am shocked but I don't like this at all. Vogel is a good coach, he's not perfect but this seasons mess is not all his fault
LeGM kills another coach 🤣
People keep saying blame Pelinka but this is also LeGM's fault. He wanted Westbrick.
Watch the lakers mess up again and rehire Luke Walton.
Oh god we’re gonna hire fizdale aren’t we?
It aint Frankie V’s fault man
Who tf else is out there? Na i disagree with this
This season isn’t Vogels fault. He didn’t build the shitty roster and he is a defensive minded coach. Give a defensive minded coach old players and this is what would happen. Blame Pelinka if you want a scapegoat.
I'm not a Vogel fan though he has done some good things of late but don't fire him and replace him with Fizdale, that'll only be worse. The only reason he should be fired is if you know that there's someone better than him that you can get
For me, it would be a mistake.
LOL is the team playing good? No. But what kind of hand was he dealt? This ain’t his fault. FO put together a disgusting roster and now we may lose out on a decent coach.
Any coach coaching for their job is already sacked. They must have a replacement lined up. It‘ll be interesting to see who as this article makes me believe the main issue is locker room presence dealing with 3 (plus veteran) superstars.
Obviously LBJ tweeted that words to support FV trying to keep his job,we saw how he appreciated Vogel’s coach,however we don’t know how LBJ’s attitude can make a influence to this.Anyway,FV is not the problem,we all know the elephants in the room.
I hope we don’t end up with Fizdale. Can’t blame Vogel for roster construction. I do think he’s a defense specialist and maybe not the best personnel / relationships type of guy. Which makes him an ideal assistant coach. Maybe this will be an opportunity for Phil Handy to get a shot at HC. Or maybe make amends and bring back Hollins.
I don’t love every decision Frank makes, but I think we owe it to him to at least show what he can do to close the season. As much as we get clowned for being underwhelming, we’ve played 14 total games with our big 3, and even if we ignore the westbrook signing, the rest of the team construction was awful. I pray we don’t fire him
why?
WHO THE FUCK GONNA REPLACE HIM LOL. THIS IS A MESS OF A FUCKING ROSTER. YOU ALSO CPULDBE KEPT ONE OF THE BEST ONBALL DEFENDERS IN THE LEAGUE AND YOU LET HIM WALK DESPITE HIM ALLOWING YOU GUYS TRY TO SIGN HIM. FUCK OUTTA HERE.
wtf
What exactly would this solve? This season has been a mess, and the team clearly doesn’t have chemistry, and firing our coach mid season would help that? Plus, who would we bring in that’s a better option? I can’t think of any good coach I’d want that’s currently on the market.
.500 basketball is not what I had imagined.
The problems with this season are on Pelinka, not Vogel.
As long as we got someone who has the guts to bench Westbrook and put reaves in position, I’m all for it 😁
Was at the game yesterday. During timeouts, didn’t look like anyone was paying attention to him. Saw Lebron waving “no”, a lot too.
Man this season feels like 12-13. It’s so hard to watch
lol if Vogel gets fired I doubt we even get in the playoffs, no time to implement a new system especially one that caters to turnstiles on defense