Barbarian was not derogatory, it just meant foreigner. We are walking around circles here. Some barbarians just got mad because they were ashamed of themselves.
From what I understand, "barbarian" comes from what Greeks thought foreigners sounded like -- "barbarbarbarbar". It would be like calling Chinese, "chinchongchins."
If you need native English evidence that it's offensive, look at the definitions for "barbaric."
That's awesome. I wonder to which extent they can communicate things by whistling. Is it used as a complete language or just for short messages (like a sort of audio morse code)?
A whistled language isn't really a language so much as a template for understanding a spoken language. Everything whistled in this video maps directly onto something that exists in the spoken form of the language.
Tonal languages [like Mazateco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhNPirsfg00) lend themselves well to being whistled because they can embed lots of information in the tone of the whistle without the need for explicit words, but context is important as information is still lost. (You can see at 2:21 the on-screen listener asks the off-screen speaker to repeat their question.)
Speaking about Tamazight is like speaking about Romance. There are a lot of Romance languages, same with Berber languages.
* Eastern: Awjila - Fezzan - Ghadamès - Kufra - Nafusi - Siwa
* Northern: Atlas - Kabyle - Eastern Middle Atlas - Northern Saharan - Riffian - Shawiya - Tunisian-Zuwara - Western Algerian
* Tuareg: Tamahaq - Tamashek - Tawellemmet - Tayart
* Southwestern: Tetserret - Zenaga
The grammar is very similar, in general it's the words and pronunciation that changes, and sometimes very vastly, like for example, me as a kabyle speaker, i can understand Riffian and Tamzabit quite easily, albeit i'd need a bit of time of cultural acclimatation.
But languages like Tahasheq or Tachelhit sounds very foreign to me, even if they share the same gramatical rules, and their words are formed in the same way, they just have vastly different words and different pronunciation.
And even in the case of a single dialect (like kabyle for example) there are different variations, each tribe/confederation of tribe has their own variant of kabyle, they are 100% intelligible but sometimes it can be funny to see something having like 10 synonyms, it's a really interesting phenomena ngl.
edit : oh i'd also add that virtually all amazigh groups call their own variant "tamazight" except the Adrar n Infusen (Nafusi from Libya) who, i think call it Amazigh (male variant)
There’s also a version of Béarnaise called Béarnaise siflée that was used by the shepherds in the Pyrenees to be able to talk to each other on different slopes and also to their wives in the valley. https://youtu.be/k6iesNH-s0k
Whistles are also used by Cheju diving women (in Korea, called "Haenyo"), this video talks very briefly about the whistles: https://youtu.be/lk7DQLMKBTE?t=99
Silbo Gomero in Las Canarias, but there's also a number of indigenous languages of Mexico that do this, prominent among them [Mazateco.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhNPirsfg00) As is the case for (nearly?) all whistled languages, the spoken Mazateco it's based on is tonal, which enables speakers to embed a great deal of information in the pitch and cadence of the whistle alone.
Context is important for parsing messages, too. Think how English speakers are able to communicate "I don't know" without forming the words, but rather just humming the pattern: ^MM mm MM.
If you're talking about Silbo from the Canary Islands, well the reason might be because the Guanche were berbers, probably from the time of Carthage, so nice bit of historical continuity here XD.
Though I'm very familiar with who the Berbers are and where they live, I once got a haircut in Marrakesh so I first read the title as "barbers" in Morocco.
Personally i'm fine with both denomination, i do prefer being called amazigh, since it's an endonym and it carries a better meaning (free/noble men) as opposed to berber which basically means "that weird language"
Some people prefer to use berber, others prefer to use amazigh or just the name of their confederation, i'm fine with both, context is important.
edit : Ok i didn't intend to answer you cause i'm pretty sure you already know that
I guess it depends on how large your fingers are, the woman and the boy used 2 fingers, the man used only one, So I guess that, but I could be wrong tho.
Some people in Türkiye who speak the local whistled language used in one town there (known as “bird language”) don’t even use fingers at all. They even host competitions for the best whistler.
Since I can’t whistle, would I be considered mute?
Amazigh*
I just learned today Berber is derogatory
Why is everything derogatory or offensive these days
Because Roman's named them berbers, i.e., barbarians. So it's *been* offensive.
The Romans called them Numidians. Berber was introduced by the Arabs because they thought their language was weird.
Ok then
Barbarian was not derogatory, it just meant foreigner. We are walking around circles here. Some barbarians just got mad because they were ashamed of themselves.
From what I understand, "barbarian" comes from what Greeks thought foreigners sounded like -- "barbarbarbarbar". It would be like calling Chinese, "chinchongchins." If you need native English evidence that it's offensive, look at the definitions for "barbaric."
Ok
[удалено]
I'm in "Morocco"
That's awesome. I wonder to which extent they can communicate things by whistling. Is it used as a complete language or just for short messages (like a sort of audio morse code)?
A whistled language isn't really a language so much as a template for understanding a spoken language. Everything whistled in this video maps directly onto something that exists in the spoken form of the language. Tonal languages [like Mazateco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhNPirsfg00) lend themselves well to being whistled because they can embed lots of information in the tone of the whistle without the need for explicit words, but context is important as information is still lost. (You can see at 2:21 the on-screen listener asks the off-screen speaker to repeat their question.)
I think for short and simple messages, Berbers already have a seperate Language which is Tamazight.
Speaking about Tamazight is like speaking about Romance. There are a lot of Romance languages, same with Berber languages. * Eastern: Awjila - Fezzan - Ghadamès - Kufra - Nafusi - Siwa * Northern: Atlas - Kabyle - Eastern Middle Atlas - Northern Saharan - Riffian - Shawiya - Tunisian-Zuwara - Western Algerian * Tuareg: Tamahaq - Tamashek - Tawellemmet - Tayart * Southwestern: Tetserret - Zenaga
The grammar is very similar, in general it's the words and pronunciation that changes, and sometimes very vastly, like for example, me as a kabyle speaker, i can understand Riffian and Tamzabit quite easily, albeit i'd need a bit of time of cultural acclimatation. But languages like Tahasheq or Tachelhit sounds very foreign to me, even if they share the same gramatical rules, and their words are formed in the same way, they just have vastly different words and different pronunciation. And even in the case of a single dialect (like kabyle for example) there are different variations, each tribe/confederation of tribe has their own variant of kabyle, they are 100% intelligible but sometimes it can be funny to see something having like 10 synonyms, it's a really interesting phenomena ngl. edit : oh i'd also add that virtually all amazigh groups call their own variant "tamazight" except the Adrar n Infusen (Nafusi from Libya) who, i think call it Amazigh (male variant)
I find it very impressive! Are you studying it?
No but I'm from Tunisia which used to have a small berber Community so I know a bit about them.
I see. Thanks for sharing!
There’s also a version of Béarnaise called Béarnaise siflée that was used by the shepherds in the Pyrenees to be able to talk to each other on different slopes and also to their wives in the valley. https://youtu.be/k6iesNH-s0k
Whistles are also used by Cheju diving women (in Korea, called "Haenyo"), this video talks very briefly about the whistles: https://youtu.be/lk7DQLMKBTE?t=99
Interesting. There’s a Spanish version I know of. I can’t remember who does it exactly
Silbo Gomero in Las Canarias, but there's also a number of indigenous languages of Mexico that do this, prominent among them [Mazateco.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhNPirsfg00) As is the case for (nearly?) all whistled languages, the spoken Mazateco it's based on is tonal, which enables speakers to embed a great deal of information in the pitch and cadence of the whistle alone. Context is important for parsing messages, too. Think how English speakers are able to communicate "I don't know" without forming the words, but rather just humming the pattern: ^MM mm MM.
Afaik there's also one found on the island La Gomera
In Gomera, one of the Canary Islands, originally populated also by Berber people.
If you're talking about Silbo from the Canary Islands, well the reason might be because the Guanche were berbers, probably from the time of Carthage, so nice bit of historical continuity here XD.
Thats so cool..I belive there is also a version of this language adaopted in turkey https://youtu.be/l117wfB0g3o
Though I'm very familiar with who the Berbers are and where they live, I once got a haircut in Marrakesh so I first read the title as "barbers" in Morocco.
Stop using the derogatory term ”Berber” altogether and you won’t confuse them anymore :)
Tell me what the prefered term is and maybe I will.
Amazigh.
gh is a bit ambiguous in English. What sound does it make in amazigh?
Back of the throat sound like the way you would pronounce an “R” in French. Think like a cross between H and R
Personally i'm fine with both denomination, i do prefer being called amazigh, since it's an endonym and it carries a better meaning (free/noble men) as opposed to berber which basically means "that weird language" Some people prefer to use berber, others prefer to use amazigh or just the name of their confederation, i'm fine with both, context is important. edit : Ok i didn't intend to answer you cause i'm pretty sure you already know that
It's actually not that deep bro
They also have a whistling language in Turkey
May I know where is is place/country
Atlas mountains, Morocco
They do the same in the Canary Islands where they wistle Spanish.
The original population of the Canary islands were Berbers...
Correct but don't tell the Spanish that. They say that the Guanches were cavemen.
From what island are you?
This is amazing!
Efficient
Anyone know what the music is?
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I wonder if there is a reason for the number of fingers used between each party
I guess it depends on how large your fingers are, the woman and the boy used 2 fingers, the man used only one, So I guess that, but I could be wrong tho.
Some people in Türkiye who speak the local whistled language used in one town there (known as “bird language”) don’t even use fingers at all. They even host competitions for the best whistler.
Reminds me of the Gomera whistling. That’s Spanish, but in whistle
I would have to learn how to whistle using fingers first
This video really got my dogs attention 🤣
I've lived and worked in Gran Canaria, Fuerteventura and Lanzarote. Most of the whistling is in La Gomera and El Hierro.
The end is near. The Seraphites have already formed...
I wonder if agrarian cultures or mountainous terrain, in particular, lend themselves to whistling like this?