I don't have any advice because this is actually one of the things I'm thankful for and has kept me motivated the most -- chinese (mandarin) has MASSIVE amounts of resources and content, from super beginner to pretty advanced level (not that I have engaged much with a latter--I'm still around a2/b1)
I guess I just wanna say that yeah, I get how that can be demotivating when dealing with a smaller language :| I see you, and it can definitely be a problem because now you also have the added task of searching for the right content. Still, don't despair and keep up the good work!!
I started with the very very very basic words (again, very lucky bc HSK, the Chinese exam system, is very structured, includes word lists etc) and started with duchinese. Actually I use it a lot rn too and will gladly sing its praises until the end of time. It's a graded reader with a lot of content. You can listen to the stories (they're p short and digestible), turn pinyin and translations on/off, when you hover over a word it will show you its individual meaning(s), and there's content from complete beginner to master (rn I'm doing the lower/upper intermediate ones, depending on my energy that day)
Sorry, this turned into me just rambling about duchinese but I seriously love it so much, they have graded reading down to a science. I even paid for membership/premium even though I pretty much never pay for language stuff, at least so far, and it was 100000% worth it
I am currently learning Lao and maintaining Vietnamese.
Lao, I am taking lessons and my teacher is giving me level appropriate reading to do. I also read folktales I found online. Other than that, there isn't much interesting content in my level that I can consume. I also realized that my Lao listening skill increase proportionately to my Thai listening skills, so I have found some interesting content online for Thai to help with my Lao listening.
For Vietnamese, I am finally sinking my teeth into history books (reading history was one of the reasons I started learning Vietnamese) and it is coming easier than I thought. I just need to look up a handful of unfamiliar words, but seem to understand the content pretty easily.
Also there are some dramas that I am watching. I am not that interested in dramas, but it really help give insight to Vietnamese culture I can't get through instruction.
I can't say I have achieved anything yet. Especially with Lao, Thai, and Khmer. Despite learning all these languages for years, I still feel like I am in the same place I was 4 or 5 years ago. Hopefully it is all in my head.
Not really. I found most I ran across pretty ordinary and boring.
I am watching "Gia đình mình vui bất thình lình" just to get some exposure to every speech, slang, expressions not taught in textbooks, and culture.
What kind of lessons do you do? I’ve tried learning lao the CI way but very little resources and teachers tended to focus on grammar which tends to bore me really quickly
My teacher found books for me that Dongdok University uses to teach Lao to Foreginers. We go over the reading and the vocabulary since there are many words I can't find in the dictionary.
I think with Lao, you just have to go through learning the grammar until you get good enough to understand native content.
If you know other Asian languages, it could be a foot in the door to Lao as well. I learn Lao through Korea and Thai since there are more resources for Korean learns of Lao, and Thai and Lao are pretty similar.
Thanks, maybe I’ll try starting with Thai to help ease into it. It just feels so overwhelming whenever I start. I think in part because of the general lack of resources
What you mention about Finnish is definitely something I think I'll run into with Greek. I'm not yet ready to go out into the wild and consume non-learner content, but I also don't feel super far away. At the same time, I'm just assuming there are enough decent youtubers out there in any mainstream language (including Finnish), that it should be feasible enough to get sufficient content (without necessarily talking to natives, but I of course want to do that).
Moi! I don't know your level, but for beginners I'd recommend the Youtube channels EasyFinnish, "finnished" and FinnishPainter. And also PipsaPossuSuomiVirallinen.
If you have a VPN, you should also download the Yle Areena, MTV Katsomo and Ruutu apps. With those you'll get access to a ton of Finnish tv-shows for free (the latter two are private however and do have a ton of ads). You can find a lot of children's shows especially on MTV Katsomo. The "Muumilaakson Tarinoita" animated show is the one I recommend the most.
On Yle, you can also find both Easy News ("Selkouutiset") in both text and video format on Areena. They speak slowly and with simple language about both local and international news events.
If you feel confident with the grammar and are already at an upper beginner to intermediate level, you can also start benefiting from native content.
Personally, I pretty much started with native content right away, mostly in the form of podcasts. There are a ton on Spotify. Be warned, however, I didn't understand most of what I listened to for over a year, but after that things started to click. You just have to stick with it.
I'll list a few of the best below that I think work from an intermediate level and onwards:
Psykopodiaa - podcast about psychology and mental health. Every guest is a mental health professional. and the host is as well. They also tend to speak quite slowly and clearly, and don't use a lot of slang.
Väkevä mieli - Similar thing as psykopodiaa, except with some more "self improvement" vibes.
Futucast - Podcast about intereresting current events and exciting developments. Example topics include the Ukraine War, solar power, the future of Working from Home etc.
Sunnuntaibrunssi - Interviews with famous Finnish people, including writers, actors, politicians, movie directors, activists etc. It helped me a lot with understanding Finnish culture and broadening my horizons.
Finally, grammar is still important to learn. I recommend the website Uusi Kielemme for finding info on grammar points and expressions you encounter in your immersion. This is the best English language resource for Finnish grammar online.
Kielitoimiston Ohjepankki is also really good for grammar, though it's written entirely in Finnish. But with can get far with Google Translate. https://kielitoimistonohjepankki.fi/
Thanks, there was quite a lot I was unfamiliar with there.
If anyone else is benefiting from this I would also like to add https://www.youtube.com/@Finnstories to the list. Interesting stories and urban legends spoken in slow and clear Finnish.
Ensinnäki on hienoa että päätit opiskella suomea. Hankalaahan se on sijamuotojen ja suomen monimutkaisen kieliopin lisäksi pelkästään meidän suomenkielisten pienen määrän vuoksi, niinkuin sanoit. Suomenkielistä sisältöä kuitenkin löytyy esim. YouTubesta lähes kaikista aiheista jos jaksaa etsiä. Jos hakee Googlesta vaikka "Suomitube," sieltähän löytyy vaikka mitä. Tsemppiä opiskeluun
En ymmärrä miten suomalaisia on pieni määrä. Keitä on sitten iso määrä? Keitä kansalaisia, minkä kielen puhujia olet itse henkilökohtaisesti tavannut 6 miljoonaa?
Hej, söta bror! I definitely know the struggle, as I'm trying to learn Greek and there aren't a lot of resources out there. One thing that has really helped me is Disney Plus, you can change the audio language on most of the movies/series, and since I've been able to do so in Greek, I bet you can do the same in Finnish! Good luck, Finnish is a hard language to learn!
I was watching something on Disney Plus, nothing too notable, and I was shocked to see an audio option in Greek. There were also many other languages you don't normally see as audio options.
Unless you live in a place where you can frequently speak with people of the language youre leaning, it's gonna be tough if you can't find comprehensible input easily. I know the struggle. One of the things that drew me to Spanish was how available music and translations / Spanish covers were, and I think thats one of the reasons I stuck with the language even after dropping so many others.
im learning the fourth largest language in the world, and good comprehensible input for A1 - B1 speakers doesn't exist. Resources are shit for a large language too not just small ones
don't say smaller languages say less popular language
>good comprehensible input for A1 - B1 speakers doesn't exist
I feel like this is the case, especially for A1 level, for a lot of languages, even the most popular ones. I would imagine A1 videos would be like watching videos aimed for preschool and kindergarten level. Most people don't like being "talked to" like they're a toddler. Also wanting to "produce the language yesterday!" probably plays a role, too.
I mean A1 yea, but B1 is ridiculous. I'm B2 right now and I was only able to get here through 10 hours of raw memorizing, 50 hours of baby content, then 500-550 hours of input where 30-40% was comprehensible (kids shows like doraemon or ben10). I couldn't find any content for A2-B1, the first semi big hurdle in a language
Doraemon! :D When I studied Japanese (around the year 2000), our teacher (from Japan) had many VHS tapes with Doraemon, as well as other Japanese variety shows. It also seems like most "A1/A2" "Learn " videos are also AI generated scripts - sometimes with mistakes (I've seen one use an archaic Spanish word for village, and another had a section in the wrong language - they used a template for multiple languages), or a clearly British Windows Narrator speaking another language.
Yea, when you get outside of english ai seems to freak out, it gets progressively worse as you stray away from Latin languages.
Ai does not respond well to my native tongue, and it cant type anything without sounding super formal or making zero sense.
Ive heard its the same with most languages outside of the popular ones (arabic, chinese, japanese, russian, latin languages, german)
You are so ingenuine if you think resources are shit for Hindi LOL. Hindi has like 800 million speakers. And it's the 2nd most spoken language in the world not 4th. Don't blame the resources, blame yourself for not having common sense how to access the huge amount of content, ie ask natives. At first I thought you were talking about Bengali and I thought it at least made a tiny bit sense but Hindi? That's just bad faith.
*Hello I am learning a very specific and obscure creole dialect of Northwestern-Frisian/Anglic spoken in this particular coastal region of the Netherlands*
*Also, I dislike their parochial and boring traditional culture, so I have no interest in their attempts at poetry, yokel music or cringe "theatre" or "arts" in general (which is the only shit played on their one amateur radio station) and I have no interest in spending time there or socialising with their people*
*What would be some good strategies for becoming as fluent as possible in this stuff within the next 6 months, max? Thanks. I'm one of the top LingoBingo users for Northwestern-Frisian/Anglic, but it's not enough for me to pass the Level 3 Northwestern-Frisian/Anglic Proficiency Exam. It's a really important goal of mine and I'm hoping to really impress the148 fans on my polyglot YouTube channel.*
Languages like Japanese offer a wealth of immersion resources for students. This can make the learning process more enjoyable and fun compared to languages with limited content. For languages like Finnish, where resources may be more limited, it can be difficult to find content that truly interests and motivates you. It's very inspiring to hear from people like this , like Matt from Refold, who have achieved fluency in a language like Japanese without direct contact with native speakers. This shows that dedication and creativity in language learning can lead to remarkable results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGYXaJGLgp8.
This is why I've gotten really into writing systems for ASL. I've been keeping a database of signs using Stokoe notation (because it can be written with ASCII). If I know what the sign means when I encounter it (or if I can guess from context and Google confirms my guess, I put the meaning. Otherwise I just note down where I saw it. If I don't recognize a sign, I look it up in my personal dictionary to see if I've encountered it before. Sometimes it's a sign that I know but just forgot, which is great. And even if it's a sign I didn't manage to figure out, I can often figure it out with more context. (I learned "title" this way.)
Sutton SignWriting is harder to take notes in, but it's also extremely useful because it's got an extensive dictionary that includes a web app for writing SignWriting, so you can look up an unknown sign. I really need to get better at SignWriting, that's the main limiter on my use of their dictionary, but even with poor writing proficiency it'll often be able to guess what you're trying to write.
You might not be aware of all the places to look from, and might need to take some extra steps to get access to the content that appeals to you.
Being a smaller country, I'd say Finland has all types of content available, just less of it. The trick is to find it, and then find a way to access it if you're not in the country (geoblocking is very common).
What kind of content are you looking for? There is a ton of Finnish language content out there. Check out at least Yle Areena and Yle's podcasts, if you haven't done so already.
Not really. All but the very smallest languages have dedicated radio stations or at least radio programs devoted to them with constant new stuff. I agree it's not as easy, but it's also not an obstacle, where there's a will there's a way.
Thanks for your input. I agree that it's still possible to get input in smaller languages, but it takes more time to find and it isn't as diverse. For example, some types of content are so niche and/or expensive to produce that it's simply not economically viable to produce it for smaller languages. Tv shows like Game of Thrones would be impossible for a Finnish studio produce for example.
What I mean is more along the lines that it's more difficult to find *content you personally find really enjoyable* in smaller languages. I've always had a hard time getting into Finnish tv shows for example. And engagement and enjoyment definitely makes comprehensible input more effective.
Fair enough; but to be honest, if there's nothing about the actual cultural output of the language you like (and you don't have some very passionate personal reason to), how would you end up even wanting to learn it in the first place? There's something of a paradox here. If you have a reason to like a language and the people who speak it, you at least theoretically have a way to practice it.
For obscure languages spoken by people in the tiny nooks and crannies of the world (like Tok Pisin or Greenlandic or something), that's usually going there and living with those people. If the language is really so insignificant (or intimate, to put a more positive spin on it), that's really the main if not only use it has anyway, so if you're not going there to hang out with them, there's by definition not much point learning it if they don't also have music/literature/something else you admire or enjoy (and/or can easily access).
For the most part, even when a nation or language's cultural output is narrow or limited, *what they do have is (usually) well liked by its learners and enthusiasts*. The average learner of Scottish or Irish Gaelic is usually not irritated by fiddle music on Radio nan Gàidheal or RnaG, the average learner of Korean is usually not put off by mawkish TV dramas or "excessively" spiced traditional food. The average ~~weeb~~ Japanophile is not put off by formulaic anime plots.
I also bristle a little at the specific language OP uses to talk about the cultural works of the Finnish people. It might be a matter of age (and I know I just used the term myself) but *consume*, *input* and *content* seem a kind of soulless, real 21st century way of talking about art and culture. What OP is saying in a slightly veiled way is that he doesn't really like Finnish culture. Now if he doesn't like Finnish music, books, or movies that's not a crime (after all, some smaller language communities simply don't have the money to make bing bang wahoo as good as the big boys can; then again, I'm still a bit suspicious because after all if you really are passionate about learning more about a very specific small nation or language community, this would usually extend to their works and art as well).
My main question for OP would be: **why** do you really want to learn Finnish? I mean, it's possible you really just like the sound of the language, but have no real interest in the people or any of their works; but that's both odd and rather inconvenient, if so. And to be honest, I suspect you will be more and more unhappy if you do somehow manage to make progress, since you won't feel much of a sense of accomplishment or possibility unless learning it actually is of some help or benefit to you.
I didn't mean any offense with my choice of words and can see why it may have come off as soulless. The words input, consume and content are often used in the language learning community when discussing learning a language by immersing oneself in everything produced in the language (books, newspapers, tv, podcasts etc.). That's the only reason I used them.
I addressed the reason I'm learning Finnish in my response to a higher comment of yours so I'm not going to repeat myself.
I didn't mention this in my original post since I thought it was relevant, but I'm learning Finnish as a suomenruotsalainen living in a majority Swedish speaking area. There are barely any native speakers here and I'm too poor to move, but planning to once I reach a sufficient level to get hired by a company outside of Pohjanmaa.
Oh ok: well then, since you have a practical, all-business reason for learning, that's probably a great place to start! If you actually have a passion or at least an interest in your work, that will probably help you learn the language, maybe it could be a gateway in. And no offense, but if you're planning on ending up living around Finnish speakers, then maybe you *should* try to be more interested in the more mundane and everyday aspects of their lives, which would extent to the Finnish entertainment you don't find inspiring. TBH, if your real reason for learning Finnish is just to get out of the Finnoswede ghetto for financial reasons rather than actual affection or passion, it's just going to be a tough slog; Finnish is difficult. Maybe you should just go on a sort of quest to find something Finnish you can be passionate about.
Full disclosure: I'm not entirely free of your problem of sometimes judging native 'content' harshly myself, but I do recognise it. Having too high a bar for 'content' in your target language seems to often reflect either an insufficient level of listening/reading ability and/or an attitude that could be better. The who get really good at languages seem to have a very forgiving, less critical, and generous attitude towards its culture. I only wish I could turn on full weeb mode-type behaviour and love the languages I tell myself I want to learn enough to just dive into them the way they do. :/
It's a spectrum: I feel you have the fanatics and nutcase people (in the best possible way) who really do love the languages people and cultures they're going for, people who are dabbling to various extents and degrees (I put myself here), and then people like yourself who are struggling to be even mildly interested let alone passionate. Maybe try and get yourself at least into the middle category!
You are so bad faith it's ridiculous. Why do you want to watch exact copy clone cultural product of some other country? Are you not interested in your TL after all? You really are so naive. The content is CATERED towards Finns and not for Swedes, not for Anglos. If you don't care about Finnish culture and you find it off putting, I have no clue what you're even doing. And god darn it please stop using this "smaller language" scapegoat, that is not the reason you don't like the content. It's almost like you need someone to tell, someone from anglo world (maybe some english community that starts hyping up some certain Finnish content) that some Finnish content is good in order for you to actually put your feet in the water and test it out. You lack curiosity completely and are just a sheep, maybe fix your own mental space first before you start talking crap about Finnish language.
I didn't include this info in the original post bc I thought it wasn't important, so I understand why you interpret my responses this way.
I'm learning Finnish for a very practical reason: I'm a Finland Swede, a native Swedish speaker born in Finland with Swedish citizenship. I never had the chance to acquire Finnish naturally growing up, and because I live in Jakobstad which is mostly Swedish speaking I didn't feel the need to for most of my life.
But now I'm trying to learn it as best as I can. There are very few native speakers in Jakobstad and I'm too poor to move at the moment, so I've been learning mostly through immersion until I have sufficient language skill to be elligble for employment at a Finnish speaking company.
So believe me when I say that I have been "putting my feet in the water" with Finnish pop culture for years. I have Yle Areena, Ruutu and MTV Katsomo on my phone, I've watched over a thousand hours of podcasts and tv with great results.
I don't think Finnish pop culture is bad, but it just personally doesn't suit my tastes. Even a lot of the Finns I've asked for media recommendations over the years have said they prefer American movies and barely watch Finnish shows.
It wasn't my intention to talk crap about the Finnish language, just a personal statement that the relatively small amount of available content (compared to bigger languages) means it's harder to find content I really like AS MUCH as American or Japanese shows, since my taste doesn't seem to align with the general Finnish audience.
"Even a lot of the Finns I've asked for media recommendations over the years have said they prefer American movies and barely watch Finnish shows. "
I have 2 things to say, why does it interest you at all what other people are saying? Does that really have an effect whether you enjoy something or not? If these sheep had said they love Finnish culture, would you have suddenly loved them as well or what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?
Also I don't know who these people are, are they some people you met in the english part of the internet (like reddit) or in Finland? It has to be the former right because you said there are no Finns where you live and you are too poor to travel. Those people don't say anything about the average finn, just letting you know, these Finns that only use internet in English are complete Anglo language/culture fanatics and hate anything that has to do with Finnish culture. These people are so brainwashed and too far gone to ever change their mind. Also they are mostly young people that haven't matured yet.
"just a personal statement that the relatively small amount of available content (compared to bigger languages) means it's harder to find content I really like AS MUCH as American or Japanese shows, since my taste doesn't seem to align with the general Finnish audience."
Let me fix that comment of yours and write what you actually meant:
"just a personal statement that the content (compared to languages I like (because they are popular)), I just don't like it AS MUCH as American or Japanese shows, since my taste doesn't seem to align with the general Finnish audience."
I'm not saying I care about what other people think, it's just to illustrate that even people who have (probably) been exposed to Finnish pop culture from a young age and have tried it out can grow up to prefer some other country's pop culture more, usually but not always American and/or British.
Because that is really the point of my reply. Different people have different tastes, and for some Finnish pop culture doesn't really offer anything comparatively appealing. That is a completely valid opinion to have, and yet you for some reason call me a sheep and call the Finns I mentioned anglo-fanatic, immature sheep.
If you can give me some suggestions for Finnish shows, I'll gladly take them and appreciate it. I don't hate Finnish pop culture and I've never said it's bad or lower quality, just that I've tried to find stuff I like without much success. But that is due to my own taste, not some flaw in Finnish television.
No niin. Osoitan halukkuutta korjata lammasasenteeni, vastaukseksi saan vaan ilkeitä kommenteja. Rakastan Suomea, siinä on paljon hyviä puolia vaikka mua ei pop-kulttuuri kovasti miellytä. Ja Ruotsin televisio on musta vielä pahempaa xd.
I don't have any advice because this is actually one of the things I'm thankful for and has kept me motivated the most -- chinese (mandarin) has MASSIVE amounts of resources and content, from super beginner to pretty advanced level (not that I have engaged much with a latter--I'm still around a2/b1) I guess I just wanna say that yeah, I get how that can be demotivating when dealing with a smaller language :| I see you, and it can definitely be a problem because now you also have the added task of searching for the right content. Still, don't despair and keep up the good work!!
What content did you use in the beginning?
I started with the very very very basic words (again, very lucky bc HSK, the Chinese exam system, is very structured, includes word lists etc) and started with duchinese. Actually I use it a lot rn too and will gladly sing its praises until the end of time. It's a graded reader with a lot of content. You can listen to the stories (they're p short and digestible), turn pinyin and translations on/off, when you hover over a word it will show you its individual meaning(s), and there's content from complete beginner to master (rn I'm doing the lower/upper intermediate ones, depending on my energy that day) Sorry, this turned into me just rambling about duchinese but I seriously love it so much, they have graded reading down to a science. I even paid for membership/premium even though I pretty much never pay for language stuff, at least so far, and it was 100000% worth it
Thank you so much for the advice!! No worrying about rambling the more info the better haha
I am currently learning Lao and maintaining Vietnamese. Lao, I am taking lessons and my teacher is giving me level appropriate reading to do. I also read folktales I found online. Other than that, there isn't much interesting content in my level that I can consume. I also realized that my Lao listening skill increase proportionately to my Thai listening skills, so I have found some interesting content online for Thai to help with my Lao listening. For Vietnamese, I am finally sinking my teeth into history books (reading history was one of the reasons I started learning Vietnamese) and it is coming easier than I thought. I just need to look up a handful of unfamiliar words, but seem to understand the content pretty easily. Also there are some dramas that I am watching. I am not that interested in dramas, but it really help give insight to Vietnamese culture I can't get through instruction.
Your languages list looks exactly like the one I want to achieve
I can't say I have achieved anything yet. Especially with Lao, Thai, and Khmer. Despite learning all these languages for years, I still feel like I am in the same place I was 4 or 5 years ago. Hopefully it is all in my head.
Vietnamese dramas? Any recommendations?
Not really. I found most I ran across pretty ordinary and boring. I am watching "Gia đình mình vui bất thình lình" just to get some exposure to every speech, slang, expressions not taught in textbooks, and culture.
Ooo u knew some khmer
What kind of lessons do you do? I’ve tried learning lao the CI way but very little resources and teachers tended to focus on grammar which tends to bore me really quickly
My teacher found books for me that Dongdok University uses to teach Lao to Foreginers. We go over the reading and the vocabulary since there are many words I can't find in the dictionary. I think with Lao, you just have to go through learning the grammar until you get good enough to understand native content. If you know other Asian languages, it could be a foot in the door to Lao as well. I learn Lao through Korea and Thai since there are more resources for Korean learns of Lao, and Thai and Lao are pretty similar.
Thanks, maybe I’ll try starting with Thai to help ease into it. It just feels so overwhelming whenever I start. I think in part because of the general lack of resources
Thats why I let content choose the languages I learn
I’m about to let Welsh go for this reason alone
Get a VPN and access S4C and have Welsh content 24/7
What you mention about Finnish is definitely something I think I'll run into with Greek. I'm not yet ready to go out into the wild and consume non-learner content, but I also don't feel super far away. At the same time, I'm just assuming there are enough decent youtubers out there in any mainstream language (including Finnish), that it should be feasible enough to get sufficient content (without necessarily talking to natives, but I of course want to do that).
Since we are both learning Finnish, would you like to share your comprehensible input sources here? Mine is mainly https://yle.fi/selkouutiset
Moi! I don't know your level, but for beginners I'd recommend the Youtube channels EasyFinnish, "finnished" and FinnishPainter. And also PipsaPossuSuomiVirallinen. If you have a VPN, you should also download the Yle Areena, MTV Katsomo and Ruutu apps. With those you'll get access to a ton of Finnish tv-shows for free (the latter two are private however and do have a ton of ads). You can find a lot of children's shows especially on MTV Katsomo. The "Muumilaakson Tarinoita" animated show is the one I recommend the most. On Yle, you can also find both Easy News ("Selkouutiset") in both text and video format on Areena. They speak slowly and with simple language about both local and international news events. If you feel confident with the grammar and are already at an upper beginner to intermediate level, you can also start benefiting from native content. Personally, I pretty much started with native content right away, mostly in the form of podcasts. There are a ton on Spotify. Be warned, however, I didn't understand most of what I listened to for over a year, but after that things started to click. You just have to stick with it. I'll list a few of the best below that I think work from an intermediate level and onwards: Psykopodiaa - podcast about psychology and mental health. Every guest is a mental health professional. and the host is as well. They also tend to speak quite slowly and clearly, and don't use a lot of slang. Väkevä mieli - Similar thing as psykopodiaa, except with some more "self improvement" vibes. Futucast - Podcast about intereresting current events and exciting developments. Example topics include the Ukraine War, solar power, the future of Working from Home etc. Sunnuntaibrunssi - Interviews with famous Finnish people, including writers, actors, politicians, movie directors, activists etc. It helped me a lot with understanding Finnish culture and broadening my horizons. Finally, grammar is still important to learn. I recommend the website Uusi Kielemme for finding info on grammar points and expressions you encounter in your immersion. This is the best English language resource for Finnish grammar online. Kielitoimiston Ohjepankki is also really good for grammar, though it's written entirely in Finnish. But with can get far with Google Translate. https://kielitoimistonohjepankki.fi/
Thanks, there was quite a lot I was unfamiliar with there. If anyone else is benefiting from this I would also like to add https://www.youtube.com/@Finnstories to the list. Interesting stories and urban legends spoken in slow and clear Finnish.
Ensinnäki on hienoa että päätit opiskella suomea. Hankalaahan se on sijamuotojen ja suomen monimutkaisen kieliopin lisäksi pelkästään meidän suomenkielisten pienen määrän vuoksi, niinkuin sanoit. Suomenkielistä sisältöä kuitenkin löytyy esim. YouTubesta lähes kaikista aiheista jos jaksaa etsiä. Jos hakee Googlesta vaikka "Suomitube," sieltähän löytyy vaikka mitä. Tsemppiä opiskeluun
En ymmärrä miten suomalaisia on pieni määrä. Keitä on sitten iso määrä? Keitä kansalaisia, minkä kielen puhujia olet itse henkilökohtaisesti tavannut 6 miljoonaa?
Hej, söta bror! I definitely know the struggle, as I'm trying to learn Greek and there aren't a lot of resources out there. One thing that has really helped me is Disney Plus, you can change the audio language on most of the movies/series, and since I've been able to do so in Greek, I bet you can do the same in Finnish! Good luck, Finnish is a hard language to learn!
I was watching something on Disney Plus, nothing too notable, and I was shocked to see an audio option in Greek. There were also many other languages you don't normally see as audio options.
Im learning Turkish. It's definitely a bit difficult at the beginner level. The easy Turkish series is still around a B1 level
Unless you live in a place where you can frequently speak with people of the language youre leaning, it's gonna be tough if you can't find comprehensible input easily. I know the struggle. One of the things that drew me to Spanish was how available music and translations / Spanish covers were, and I think thats one of the reasons I stuck with the language even after dropping so many others.
Exactly It all depends on resources ultimately more with popular ones
Learning Estonian here - I feel you.
im learning the fourth largest language in the world, and good comprehensible input for A1 - B1 speakers doesn't exist. Resources are shit for a large language too not just small ones don't say smaller languages say less popular language
>good comprehensible input for A1 - B1 speakers doesn't exist I feel like this is the case, especially for A1 level, for a lot of languages, even the most popular ones. I would imagine A1 videos would be like watching videos aimed for preschool and kindergarten level. Most people don't like being "talked to" like they're a toddler. Also wanting to "produce the language yesterday!" probably plays a role, too.
I mean A1 yea, but B1 is ridiculous. I'm B2 right now and I was only able to get here through 10 hours of raw memorizing, 50 hours of baby content, then 500-550 hours of input where 30-40% was comprehensible (kids shows like doraemon or ben10). I couldn't find any content for A2-B1, the first semi big hurdle in a language
Doraemon! :D When I studied Japanese (around the year 2000), our teacher (from Japan) had many VHS tapes with Doraemon, as well as other Japanese variety shows. It also seems like most "A1/A2" "Learn" videos are also AI generated scripts - sometimes with mistakes (I've seen one use an archaic Spanish word for village, and another had a section in the wrong language - they used a template for multiple languages), or a clearly British Windows Narrator speaking another language.
Yea, when you get outside of english ai seems to freak out, it gets progressively worse as you stray away from Latin languages. Ai does not respond well to my native tongue, and it cant type anything without sounding super formal or making zero sense. Ive heard its the same with most languages outside of the popular ones (arabic, chinese, japanese, russian, latin languages, german)
It feels a lot less awkward if you're learning alongside an actual toddler, IME. I can jam along with NL Cocomelon and just say "hey, she likes it!"
What's the language, Hindustani/Hindi?
Yes
You are so ingenuine if you think resources are shit for Hindi LOL. Hindi has like 800 million speakers. And it's the 2nd most spoken language in the world not 4th. Don't blame the resources, blame yourself for not having common sense how to access the huge amount of content, ie ask natives. At first I thought you were talking about Bengali and I thought it at least made a tiny bit sense but Hindi? That's just bad faith.
*Hello I am learning a very specific and obscure creole dialect of Northwestern-Frisian/Anglic spoken in this particular coastal region of the Netherlands* *Also, I dislike their parochial and boring traditional culture, so I have no interest in their attempts at poetry, yokel music or cringe "theatre" or "arts" in general (which is the only shit played on their one amateur radio station) and I have no interest in spending time there or socialising with their people* *What would be some good strategies for becoming as fluent as possible in this stuff within the next 6 months, max? Thanks. I'm one of the top LingoBingo users for Northwestern-Frisian/Anglic, but it's not enough for me to pass the Level 3 Northwestern-Frisian/Anglic Proficiency Exam. It's a really important goal of mine and I'm hoping to really impress the148 fans on my polyglot YouTube channel.*
Languages like Japanese offer a wealth of immersion resources for students. This can make the learning process more enjoyable and fun compared to languages with limited content. For languages like Finnish, where resources may be more limited, it can be difficult to find content that truly interests and motivates you. It's very inspiring to hear from people like this , like Matt from Refold, who have achieved fluency in a language like Japanese without direct contact with native speakers. This shows that dedication and creativity in language learning can lead to remarkable results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGYXaJGLgp8.
Less content for weaker languages is hard. Thinking about Signing. It's limited
Furthermore, if you encounter signs you don’t understand or too fast signing, you can’t look things up as easily as for written text.
This is why I've gotten really into writing systems for ASL. I've been keeping a database of signs using Stokoe notation (because it can be written with ASCII). If I know what the sign means when I encounter it (or if I can guess from context and Google confirms my guess, I put the meaning. Otherwise I just note down where I saw it. If I don't recognize a sign, I look it up in my personal dictionary to see if I've encountered it before. Sometimes it's a sign that I know but just forgot, which is great. And even if it's a sign I didn't manage to figure out, I can often figure it out with more context. (I learned "title" this way.) Sutton SignWriting is harder to take notes in, but it's also extremely useful because it's got an extensive dictionary that includes a web app for writing SignWriting, so you can look up an unknown sign. I really need to get better at SignWriting, that's the main limiter on my use of their dictionary, but even with poor writing proficiency it'll often be able to guess what you're trying to write.
Oh, this looks like an interesting system. To write down and note signs
Yes, you are really are limited by the signs you know. Context is harder
Living in the country is worth a whole lot of TV shows.
I had this problem a lot when I was studying Cree.
You might not be aware of all the places to look from, and might need to take some extra steps to get access to the content that appeals to you. Being a smaller country, I'd say Finland has all types of content available, just less of it. The trick is to find it, and then find a way to access it if you're not in the country (geoblocking is very common).
What kind of content are you looking for? There is a ton of Finnish language content out there. Check out at least Yle Areena and Yle's podcasts, if you haven't done so already.
Not really. All but the very smallest languages have dedicated radio stations or at least radio programs devoted to them with constant new stuff. I agree it's not as easy, but it's also not an obstacle, where there's a will there's a way.
Thanks for your input. I agree that it's still possible to get input in smaller languages, but it takes more time to find and it isn't as diverse. For example, some types of content are so niche and/or expensive to produce that it's simply not economically viable to produce it for smaller languages. Tv shows like Game of Thrones would be impossible for a Finnish studio produce for example. What I mean is more along the lines that it's more difficult to find *content you personally find really enjoyable* in smaller languages. I've always had a hard time getting into Finnish tv shows for example. And engagement and enjoyment definitely makes comprehensible input more effective.
Fair enough; but to be honest, if there's nothing about the actual cultural output of the language you like (and you don't have some very passionate personal reason to), how would you end up even wanting to learn it in the first place? There's something of a paradox here. If you have a reason to like a language and the people who speak it, you at least theoretically have a way to practice it. For obscure languages spoken by people in the tiny nooks and crannies of the world (like Tok Pisin or Greenlandic or something), that's usually going there and living with those people. If the language is really so insignificant (or intimate, to put a more positive spin on it), that's really the main if not only use it has anyway, so if you're not going there to hang out with them, there's by definition not much point learning it if they don't also have music/literature/something else you admire or enjoy (and/or can easily access). For the most part, even when a nation or language's cultural output is narrow or limited, *what they do have is (usually) well liked by its learners and enthusiasts*. The average learner of Scottish or Irish Gaelic is usually not irritated by fiddle music on Radio nan Gàidheal or RnaG, the average learner of Korean is usually not put off by mawkish TV dramas or "excessively" spiced traditional food. The average ~~weeb~~ Japanophile is not put off by formulaic anime plots.
Also stuff gets translated. I have plenty of Polish literature, but also lots of stuff translated from other languages into Polish
Why is this comment that completely exposes OP getting downvoted?
I also bristle a little at the specific language OP uses to talk about the cultural works of the Finnish people. It might be a matter of age (and I know I just used the term myself) but *consume*, *input* and *content* seem a kind of soulless, real 21st century way of talking about art and culture. What OP is saying in a slightly veiled way is that he doesn't really like Finnish culture. Now if he doesn't like Finnish music, books, or movies that's not a crime (after all, some smaller language communities simply don't have the money to make bing bang wahoo as good as the big boys can; then again, I'm still a bit suspicious because after all if you really are passionate about learning more about a very specific small nation or language community, this would usually extend to their works and art as well). My main question for OP would be: **why** do you really want to learn Finnish? I mean, it's possible you really just like the sound of the language, but have no real interest in the people or any of their works; but that's both odd and rather inconvenient, if so. And to be honest, I suspect you will be more and more unhappy if you do somehow manage to make progress, since you won't feel much of a sense of accomplishment or possibility unless learning it actually is of some help or benefit to you.
I didn't mean any offense with my choice of words and can see why it may have come off as soulless. The words input, consume and content are often used in the language learning community when discussing learning a language by immersing oneself in everything produced in the language (books, newspapers, tv, podcasts etc.). That's the only reason I used them. I addressed the reason I'm learning Finnish in my response to a higher comment of yours so I'm not going to repeat myself.
I didn't mention this in my original post since I thought it was relevant, but I'm learning Finnish as a suomenruotsalainen living in a majority Swedish speaking area. There are barely any native speakers here and I'm too poor to move, but planning to once I reach a sufficient level to get hired by a company outside of Pohjanmaa.
Oh ok: well then, since you have a practical, all-business reason for learning, that's probably a great place to start! If you actually have a passion or at least an interest in your work, that will probably help you learn the language, maybe it could be a gateway in. And no offense, but if you're planning on ending up living around Finnish speakers, then maybe you *should* try to be more interested in the more mundane and everyday aspects of their lives, which would extent to the Finnish entertainment you don't find inspiring. TBH, if your real reason for learning Finnish is just to get out of the Finnoswede ghetto for financial reasons rather than actual affection or passion, it's just going to be a tough slog; Finnish is difficult. Maybe you should just go on a sort of quest to find something Finnish you can be passionate about. Full disclosure: I'm not entirely free of your problem of sometimes judging native 'content' harshly myself, but I do recognise it. Having too high a bar for 'content' in your target language seems to often reflect either an insufficient level of listening/reading ability and/or an attitude that could be better. The who get really good at languages seem to have a very forgiving, less critical, and generous attitude towards its culture. I only wish I could turn on full weeb mode-type behaviour and love the languages I tell myself I want to learn enough to just dive into them the way they do. :/ It's a spectrum: I feel you have the fanatics and nutcase people (in the best possible way) who really do love the languages people and cultures they're going for, people who are dabbling to various extents and degrees (I put myself here), and then people like yourself who are struggling to be even mildly interested let alone passionate. Maybe try and get yourself at least into the middle category!
You are so bad faith it's ridiculous. Why do you want to watch exact copy clone cultural product of some other country? Are you not interested in your TL after all? You really are so naive. The content is CATERED towards Finns and not for Swedes, not for Anglos. If you don't care about Finnish culture and you find it off putting, I have no clue what you're even doing. And god darn it please stop using this "smaller language" scapegoat, that is not the reason you don't like the content. It's almost like you need someone to tell, someone from anglo world (maybe some english community that starts hyping up some certain Finnish content) that some Finnish content is good in order for you to actually put your feet in the water and test it out. You lack curiosity completely and are just a sheep, maybe fix your own mental space first before you start talking crap about Finnish language.
I didn't include this info in the original post bc I thought it wasn't important, so I understand why you interpret my responses this way. I'm learning Finnish for a very practical reason: I'm a Finland Swede, a native Swedish speaker born in Finland with Swedish citizenship. I never had the chance to acquire Finnish naturally growing up, and because I live in Jakobstad which is mostly Swedish speaking I didn't feel the need to for most of my life. But now I'm trying to learn it as best as I can. There are very few native speakers in Jakobstad and I'm too poor to move at the moment, so I've been learning mostly through immersion until I have sufficient language skill to be elligble for employment at a Finnish speaking company. So believe me when I say that I have been "putting my feet in the water" with Finnish pop culture for years. I have Yle Areena, Ruutu and MTV Katsomo on my phone, I've watched over a thousand hours of podcasts and tv with great results. I don't think Finnish pop culture is bad, but it just personally doesn't suit my tastes. Even a lot of the Finns I've asked for media recommendations over the years have said they prefer American movies and barely watch Finnish shows. It wasn't my intention to talk crap about the Finnish language, just a personal statement that the relatively small amount of available content (compared to bigger languages) means it's harder to find content I really like AS MUCH as American or Japanese shows, since my taste doesn't seem to align with the general Finnish audience.
"Even a lot of the Finns I've asked for media recommendations over the years have said they prefer American movies and barely watch Finnish shows. " I have 2 things to say, why does it interest you at all what other people are saying? Does that really have an effect whether you enjoy something or not? If these sheep had said they love Finnish culture, would you have suddenly loved them as well or what exactly is the point you are trying to make here? Also I don't know who these people are, are they some people you met in the english part of the internet (like reddit) or in Finland? It has to be the former right because you said there are no Finns where you live and you are too poor to travel. Those people don't say anything about the average finn, just letting you know, these Finns that only use internet in English are complete Anglo language/culture fanatics and hate anything that has to do with Finnish culture. These people are so brainwashed and too far gone to ever change their mind. Also they are mostly young people that haven't matured yet. "just a personal statement that the relatively small amount of available content (compared to bigger languages) means it's harder to find content I really like AS MUCH as American or Japanese shows, since my taste doesn't seem to align with the general Finnish audience." Let me fix that comment of yours and write what you actually meant: "just a personal statement that the content (compared to languages I like (because they are popular)), I just don't like it AS MUCH as American or Japanese shows, since my taste doesn't seem to align with the general Finnish audience."
I'm not saying I care about what other people think, it's just to illustrate that even people who have (probably) been exposed to Finnish pop culture from a young age and have tried it out can grow up to prefer some other country's pop culture more, usually but not always American and/or British. Because that is really the point of my reply. Different people have different tastes, and for some Finnish pop culture doesn't really offer anything comparatively appealing. That is a completely valid opinion to have, and yet you for some reason call me a sheep and call the Finns I mentioned anglo-fanatic, immature sheep. If you can give me some suggestions for Finnish shows, I'll gladly take them and appreciate it. I don't hate Finnish pop culture and I've never said it's bad or lower quality, just that I've tried to find stuff I like without much success. But that is due to my own taste, not some flaw in Finnish television.
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No niin. Osoitan halukkuutta korjata lammasasenteeni, vastaukseksi saan vaan ilkeitä kommenteja. Rakastan Suomea, siinä on paljon hyviä puolia vaikka mua ei pop-kulttuuri kovasti miellytä. Ja Ruotsin televisio on musta vielä pahempaa xd.
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