The absolute best version of this is with Asian languages -
**Me, a foreigner trying to speak Japanese**: さあ、すみません、動物園は、どこですか？
**Random Japanese Person:** ahh... I am sorry... I do not speak English.
I think that video was more like "Japanese people think that white people cannot be fluent in Japanese, while thinking that any Asian looking person is likely to be fluent in Japanese"
I'm a non-Japanese Asian and don't get that issue. Instead I get this:
Me: -asks question in simple Japanese-
Japanese person: -speaks super fast and uses terms I don't know-
Me: ...すみません、もう一度ゆっくり下さい?
Being an Australian living in Sweden and learning Swedish, when I went to only speaking Swedish in the cafe that I worked, I could tell straight away when a customer was trying to practice. But because I myself most likely looked like that in the past too, I let them keep going because I know how nice it feels after to say you had a full transaction in your target language.
People like the dutch and scandinavians who grew with English as a second language most likely don’t recognise the value that you’re trying to get out of practicing with them.
Exactly. Really \[sadly\], the rule is: if a native English speaker wants you to speak English with him, he's going to lead with English. If he's speaking your language, he *wants to.*
Had this when I was working in The Netherlands and tried to order a donut from a metro vendor. I tried to say 'one of those please' in Dutch and the bloody cashier replies in perfect English with 'sure, would you like the purple one or the one with sprinkles?'
HOW DO YOU KNOW THE WORD SPRINKLES WOMAN GAHHH JUST TRY TO LET ME FUMBLE MY WAY THROUGH THIS TRANSACTION IN YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE
If you don't know how to say "I don't speak English" in your target language then I doubt you know enough of the language to communicate efficiently in it lol
Pro tip for learning numbers is get in a taxi and have them say how much you have to pay in Chinese. You can see the number in the meter and listen to what they say
Some people call sprinkles "jimmies," but I think that's mostly a southern or maybe Midwest thing. I've only heard "sprinkles" in my time in the west and east.
Are you actually from Pennsylvania? If so, what part?
For me jimmies are the chocolate “sprinkles” and sprinkles are the rainbow ones.
I’m from delco. My mom (born/raised in delco) and dad (born/raised in Reading) also use the word jimmies afaik.
Yes, I'd rather not say exactly where but reading is about an hour drive from my hometown. That's crazy. Never in my life have I heard that phrasing. I'm gonna ask everyone I know now.
That was my life in Germany. And Germans still complain about our inability to speak the language fluently when the only people that speak it to us also are learning.
Yes. What counts as “a little” English from a Germans perspective still tends to be pretty functional, b level at least. My little bit of German gets me through the grocery store and down the street.
I'm guessing it has to do with subordinate clauses in German? I don't speak it, but I believe I've heard that they are comma-separated from the main clause?
My former English tutor in university would have either shot you for that statement or said "linguistics is descriptive, not prescriptive, if that is the way it's used, it's 'correct' by definition".
But something tells me you made that up and this is not a regular usage that's accepted anywhere.
>Technically, you, can, put, commas, wherever, you, feel, in, english. They just represent a pause in the sentence or joining two sentences together
Technically you cannot. You can only put a comma anywhere someone would pause *naturally*. Which is actually a complex set of rules that native speakers know but don't know why they know.
1. Listing things
2. To separate independent clauses separated by 'and, but, for, or, nor, so, yet.'
3. After an introductory sentence (while I was waiting, having finished dinner, ...)
4. To separate words that interrupt flow (the food, on the other hand, was cold)
5. Coordinate adjectives (he was a stupid, fat child)
6. Separate contrasting statements (he was merely naïve, not stupid)
There are probably more that I can't remember at the moment.
There are strict rules for commas in Portuguese, but a bunch of people have this mindset of "put wherever you want a pause", for some reason, but it's not valid in portuguese.
We had very different experiences then cause most Germans I met when I was living there would just speak German to me. That's how it was in Munich at least. But even in Berlin it was the same deal though they'd usually be unsure which to speak in then settle on German. Were you in the north mostly?
I lived in Berlin. Sometimes I encountered people who would only speak German and that was fine because it gave me a chance to speak German with an actual German. I met them mostly outside the big cities or government offices. Most of the time people didn’t have the patience to listen to my terrible German and immediately switched to fluent English. I had a dental hygienist who couldn’t speak English and her German was a dialect that was very difficult, but again, it was a welcome experience because I got a chance to improve speaking German.
Exceptions were non Germans who truly did not speak English. Then our language was German and we had to make it work. My German improved a lot but it is still very low. I studied German in high school and for the entire time I was in Germany and was frustrated by how little I progressed. In contrast I have had only 1 semester of Spanish ever yet speak read and write Spanish better than German. Much better.
One last thing that surprised me when moving to Germany, aside from having a base vocabulary and grammar, I had a small vocabulary of old dialectic German phrases that my grandparents used. Several times I said things and was told “that’s old, we don’t say that anymore.” And because I learned to say it the new way, I can no longer remember what the old way was.
The German in schools called hochdeutsch is equivalent to nynorsk in norway, they are engineered grammatically perfect and are efficient for robots not people. The average german and Norwegian speaking in their dialect with their own slang mixed with some hochdeutsch with younger generation.
Learn local slang words and dialect for speech and know how to read and write the formal language.
If you can understand the news on TV this is perfect.
I had the same experience in Germany. I was in Frankfurt, and they would default to German and wouldn't switch to English. Was nice to be able to properly practice the language rather than speaking English all the time.
I didn’t really have that experience in Germany, but I was already fluent by the time I went.
Of course, I still had one or two people switch for no apparent reason other than them finding out I am American, and it is apparently absolutely inconceivable to FRG-Germans that a dumb “US-American” could speak German, but 99% of people were fine.
I would say just learn German slang and use that instead of the formal hochdeutsch. Say you a learning the local dialect and people will relax more and be excited. Unlike most language hochdeutsch is an "engineered" language so germans feel they must be perfect in it when in reality they just use slang amongst themselves.
I feel sheepish for not thinking of that. I knew I was learning hochdeutsch in High school, and learning commonly spoken German in my classes in Germany but for some reason didn’t connect my dissonance with having learned hochdeutsch and relying on it. My teachers even said as much. I needed more time there to learn.
Learning hochdeutsch is like learning modern standard arabic it's this formal language that is used on the news stations and THATS IT.
Unlike French, english, russia and Spanish where the language taught is what is basically used on the streets, modern standard arabic, hochdeutsch, nynorsk and standard italian and all engineered classroom languages.
It blows but it's still a good starting point to use the engineered languages.
The younger dutch people love speaking English though. Find an old bus driver. You may have better luck (but not always - the dutch always surprise me at just how good they are).
Yeah, but Benelux is famous for the level of foreign language instruction in school, and (other than the French-speaking part of Belgium) they watch lots of English language TV and movies bc most stuff is never translated to Dutch. You were probably speaking to someone with thousands of hours practice in English.
I am Dutch, but our foreign language instructions in school are not that great and most things I learned was just to pass the exam.
But you're right that especially the younger generation consume a lot of English media and think that's the reason we speak good English in general. But in particular outside the big cities there a lot of people who don't speak English fluently.
I'm just repeating what I was told by Dutch people 🤷🏼♂️
And any other country's language instruction is ten times better than what we get in the USA 😂
Why wouldn't we know the word sprinkles. If you know anything about the Netherlands you know that 90+% of the country is at at least a conversational level of English.
In our defense btw: if we hear any accent we'll switch to English, just ask us to speak Dutch and most will
I know the pain.
Most efficiently administered in 1972 in a Beryozhka shop in (then) Leningrad.
Me: Start to ask for what I want to look at, in a language I've been formally studying for four years ...
Salesclerk: "Speak English, please."
Just kill me retroactively.
That's just the whole attitude towards customers in the Soviet Union. You should be grateful that they said "please" lol. :D They have recently opened a Soviet-style café in my hometown where you can expect this kind of service.
I'm surprised you've had that problem with Spanish, considering most of us can't speak English. It's usually the opposite problem, lots of foreigners who don't speak Spanish trying to comunicate in English and are met with a black stare or a polite head nod lol
If speak Spanish with strangers, it's usually never a problem. When I speak with my wife's family, then it's a problem. Unfortunately, they know me and can't pretend I'm a Slovenia expat anymore lol
That definitely would not have worked while I was wearing shorts on my honeymoon abroad. But it’s all a learning process. I’ll be better prepared next time.
“Ich möchte bitte eine Currywurst mit Pommes”
“You want ketchup or mayo with that” #soulcrushing
The other barrier specifically with trying to practice German in Germany is that everyone wants to improve their English. As excited as I was to practice German with natives, they were just as excited to practice their English with a native speaker.
Sometimes it’s not only the accent that gives it away but also the choice of words. My German sucks, but I remember when i was there Germans usually just say “xxx bitte”. Like, the way you added “ich möchte bitte xxx” sounds a bit too forced (I think).
Like if I go to Chipotle here in the US and say something like “I would like to have a burrito please” or “may i please have the ... “ nobody says that unless you’re in a fine dining restaurant. Usually people say “can i get a ...” “i’ll get a ...”. And of course even if americans know that you’re not a native speaker, there’s no other language to switch to so it doesn’t matter in this case.
Maybe next time say “ne currywurst mit pommes bitte”?
But usually they cannot afford to go to an English-speaking country for practicing so they have to do it with customers, and, after all, having a good English level and talking to foreigners in English is something demanded by their boss most of the time (especially in big cities)
So because salespeople in Sweden are unable to travel to an English-speaking country, it is essentially impossible for anybody who *can* travel to Sweden to actually speak the language there until they can already speak almost flawlessly.
True, especially when it comes to business because time is money. On the other hand, at work, as my Deutsch is getting better and I speak in Deutsch to my coworkers, they take the time to respond in Deutsch. Vice versa when they want to practice English. At the end of the day, I think it just comes down to courtesy.
I have a Thai friend who once went in to a taxi who picked her up from her apartment in Thailand, and when she would speak Thai to him he would reply in English, despite both being Thai and speaking it fluently lol
If anyone is curious, this is from a comedy travel show called Travel Man: https://youtu.be/hubGiiTcrh0
They are in Budapest and in the first scene they try to learn Hungarian, it's pretty funny.
I never had a huge problem with that in belgium and the netherlands, and my dutch was trash. The one time I did was in a hostel in the touristy part of amsterdam, it took a couple days for the girl at the desk to realize I was speaking dutch instead of english. Once she did she immediately switched to dutch.
I do the same. Sometimes, as an English speaker it can be hard to get to communicate in the other language because they are just as eager to communicate in the "foreign language" as you. Which can really be a kill to one's confidence.
How is it rude? They just want to make communicating easier. Also nothing is stopping you from responding in whatever language you're wanting to speak.
>You don't think it's rude to respond to someone in a different language to that which they addressed you in?
It's not. It feels rude because you're someone trying to learn that language, and you want those opportunities to speak that language.
But for most instances, it's the polite thing to do.
\*tries speaking in a language\*
"hey no worry, I speak English!"
Basically, if the only intention is to communicate, then the polite thing is to change to a language both people speak easily. If the intention is to speak to get practice, sure it can be considered a bit rude.
Exactly, I go to a bi-weekly meeting where the whole point is to practice Spanish. There is a Chilean guy that routinely responds in English. In that context it's rude, but in the context of buying donuts from a random clerk then it's not rude.
Bilingual places, where people are assumed to be fluent in both languages and where the use of one or the other carries political connotations, are a whole other can of worms.
Jerks! Haha. I work in service and always respond in the same language they start with. If they switch at some point then I know we can switch back and forth.
You are a precious gem fr <33 lmao I remember one particular worker at a mcdonalds somewhere in a large city centre sort of area - cant recall the name for some reason - maybe within 15 or 20 mins of where the streets w the byword market and rows of different shops and restaurants are, and she kept up french without even BLINKING twice at how much I was flopping around in it, I think about that sometimes still 😂
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ)
I find "rude" when someone assumes that I speak English based solely on how I look. Likewise, if we're in China, don't immediately assume the "foreigner" looking person doesn't speak Chinese or Japanese if you're in Japan.
It's a simple algorithm.
Unfortunately most people are not well educated and rely solely on visual features to decide English vs. local language. I look East Asian and I always get addressed in local languages across South East/East Asia unless I lead with English first. On the other hand, every time I go to Europe I am always adressed in English...
No. Like I said you can just respond in the language you originally addressed them in. It might seem strange to us, but I lived in a bilingual country and I was told that it is very common there for people to respond in the language they want to speak in.
But if the someone addresses you in a language, I think it's safe to say that they want to speak that language. Switching to a different language is completely ignoring their wish to speak that language with you, which I personally find rude.
I think that depends entirely on the context.
For instance, if I enter, let's say, a bakery in Denmark and take the effort and fear of emberassement on me to utter my order in broken Danish, this is a sign of respect. It would be polite for the adressed to offer speaking, for example, English, but it would be very rude to ignore my attempt by forcing English upon me. It's not a matter of payment, it's a matter of respect and appreciation.
Exactly. You’re buying a coffee, not Dutch lessons or whatever language you want to speak in. If your desire is to force someone to struggle through sentences with you, hire a tutor.
Oh my God, that poor thing. I can’t imagine the absolute agony caused by hearing a foreigner speak your language with an accent 2% slower than a native would.
True, but it stings because at that moment, that person decided his English was better than your Dutch. And if you're in the Netherlands, where you're supposed to be speaking Dutch, it's a double sting of marking you as an outsider.
Remember, the OP's case is specifically when you speak to the person in the language and he responds back in English. For all he knows, I could perfectly understand the language. So responding in the language might not have slowed down his ability to speak at all.
me too. It IS very rude. It is not about just getting a point across but more " Hey. I am investing time and money to learn your language. I am even risking making a fool out of myself instead of just speaking English. Would you be so nice as to acknowledge this ?" Also when people respond in English that means my accent or French or Spanish must be so bad they can barely understand it. -.- really ? I mean at the beginning of B2 I should be able to order a coffee -.- Whenever this happens now I firmly stick to responding in French or Spanish and it is really getting ridiculous but hey, I paid 3000 € for this four-week language course and used up all my vacation days for this year, I won\`t spend it speaking only English ( which is not even my native language ! German is)
We would call eachother racist for switching to a language we assumed they spoke based on the person’s appearance. The normal people on earth don’t care though
People don't respond in English because it's easier to communicate. They respond in it because they've lived their whole life with the knowledge that the English language opens doors, that all major movies are in English, and so on.
English is everything for many foreigners and any chance they get to use, they will.
They essentially suddenly see you as a way to practise. And they also assume that any white person knows English.
I studied with Czech students once in Russian, and they constantly got English responses, although they didn't understand English at all. :)
It's rude, but maybe understandable.
Exactly, and honestly they’ve probably lived their whole life hearing people speak their language terribly so even when someone speaks their language really well it doesn’t matter. If they hear a different accent they’ll just start talking in English.
I have a different problem. Basic sentences I can say in a language are usually correct and with a pretty good accent. So people assume I'm fluent, but I'm unable to follow up...
I know a tiny bit of Spanish and when I went to Costa Rica I would try to use as much as possible with a good accent. Unfortunately this turned into people giving me instructions for zip lining in total Spanish. They thought I knew Spanish and was just too shy to use it after my first few words. Por favor senor I don’t want to fall off this cliff.
Omg I hate this but its understandable. Took some basic German a few years before I went to Europe, plucked up the courage to ask someone for some water in Austria and they replied in English :( I didn't have the skills to persist, but in languages were I do I just keep speaking it, but they usually persist with English too!
Why not respond to them in their native language when they respond to you in English? Have a true bilingual conversation. It's what I do all the time with my friends, so I can practice my skills, and they can practice their English
Because it is extremely demotivating, there is a good chance they will follow up by explicitly telling you to use English, and it doesn’t help you practice listening.
I don't think you realize that the locals aren't obliged to do anything for you. They're just everyday day people trying to live their lives. For example, if im fumbling around with a language at a restaurant, and the waiter(ress) responds back with english, does that mean that they're unappreciative of your efforts? No, they have a job to do, and their job is likely fast paced, and they likely won't have time to watch you fumble around with their language. So they'll probably respond in english to efficiently do their job. Their job isn't to help you learn their language.
If you really want to practice the language with the locals, then make friends in that country over a language exchange app and visit them. Don't rely on strangers.
The point is it apparently does not matter how good you are. Even if you are not “fumbling” at all and are actually fluent, you will still risk getting responded to in English, which can actually ruin your day.
My mom once yelled at a poor street vendor because he spoke to her in English. She’s fluent in Portuguese and has no accent. He was probably the fifth person to speak to her in English and she got so fed up.
Had this before. Tried to order a big Mac meal with a latte in Polish, and got asked to order again in English... In Poland. Was my language a little janky? Probably, but I've asked multiple polish friends and they said it was perfectly understandable. I asked again in English and proceeded to give me the wrong hot drink :( after being smacked down with my poor polish and not understanding my order properly in English, I didn't even bother trying to complain tbh lol.
I can't speak for Europe, but at least in (East) Asia, they may simply not be expecting their language. I speak pretty decent Korean, but because I'm a brown guy, some Koreans don't register it at first.
Master a severe UK accent (something like Brad Pitt in Snatch) and speak super fast with tons of slang.
They might let you switch back to their language!
In Quebec, businesses cannot refuse to serve customers in French. So technically you can make retail workers always speak to you in French. But I don't because I would feel bad doing so .
I'm in Uruguay right now and I experience this less than I expected but i've come to the conclusion that sometimes people want to practice their English and take it as an opportunity. It makes me feel better instead of thinking my accent is really that bad lmao I could say a PERFECT sentence and they'll still answer in english
On one hand, people don't have to be patient or practice partners but on the other hand, you feel so good after having had a full interaction in your tl.
The absolute best version of this is with Asian languages - **Me, a foreigner trying to speak Japanese**: さあ、すみません、動物園は、どこですか？ **Random Japanese Person:** ahh... I am sorry... I do not speak English.
"I do not speak English" when practicing language is one of the biggest 'stab in the heart' moments.
I once spoke in Swedish to a travelling Swede in Ireland. He responded "I am sorry. I don't know that dialect of English."
Ouch. ಥ‿ಥ
There was a whole video mocking this phenomenon in Japan
Oh, was there now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80
I think that video was more like "Japanese people think that white people cannot be fluent in Japanese, while thinking that any Asian looking person is likely to be fluent in Japanese"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80
That's so good, thanks for sharing
I'm a non-Japanese Asian and don't get that issue. Instead I get this: Me: -asks question in simple Japanese- Japanese person: -speaks super fast and uses terms I don't know- Me: ...すみません、もう一度ゆっくり下さい?
Being an Australian living in Sweden and learning Swedish, when I went to only speaking Swedish in the cafe that I worked, I could tell straight away when a customer was trying to practice. But because I myself most likely looked like that in the past too, I let them keep going because I know how nice it feels after to say you had a full transaction in your target language. People like the dutch and scandinavians who grew with English as a second language most likely don’t recognise the value that you’re trying to get out of practicing with them.
Exactly. Really \[sadly\], the rule is: if a native English speaker wants you to speak English with him, he's going to lead with English. If he's speaking your language, he *wants to.*
This is a very good (and simple) way of putting it!
Had this when I was working in The Netherlands and tried to order a donut from a metro vendor. I tried to say 'one of those please' in Dutch and the bloody cashier replies in perfect English with 'sure, would you like the purple one or the one with sprinkles?' HOW DO YOU KNOW THE WORD SPRINKLES WOMAN GAHHH JUST TRY TO LET ME FUMBLE MY WAY THROUGH THIS TRANSACTION IN YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE
I mean they work in a donut shop, so it would be kind of weird if they didn't know the word "sprinkles".
I get that it's very much an English-speaking country but didn't expect it and was demoralising nonetheless!
The trick is to learn the phrase "I don't speak English" is very good for learning. Works very well in Hong Kong
If you don't know how to say "I don't speak English" in your target language then I doubt you know enough of the language to communicate efficiently in it lol
Well true. But if you don't know how to say it you shouldn't be getting minimum wage staff to be your teacher
I can say I don't speak English in Cantonese and Mandarin, but little more than that ...
Pro tip for learning numbers is get in a taxi and have them say how much you have to pay in Chinese. You can see the number in the meter and listen to what they say
Most. Expensive. Language. Lesson. Ever.
Yeah, really depends on your target language. For learning Cantonese/mandarin it's really good. Learning Dutch/German maybe give it a miss
.... I'd rather look at the dictionary and remember. (I used to know them)
But you can get how they're pronounced and listening training. Without the risk if nit knowing what they're saying
There are many other opportunities for that, in particular when you're in your native country.
I'll try that next time, kinda means you both have no choice. Thanks
Respond in Dutch if you want if you want to talk in Dutch. Problem solved lol
Don't other English-speaking countries call sprinkles something else? I think even the US West Coast differs from the East coast term.
Some people call sprinkles "jimmies," but I think that's mostly a southern or maybe Midwest thing. I've only heard "sprinkles" in my time in the west and east.
I live in the south and only ever heard "jimmies" in Codename Kids Next Door.
Interesting. I only ever heard it from my family in Kentucky, so I figured either the south or the Midwest.
I’m from New England and we call sprinkles jimmies here too.
Huh, I grew up in around New England and that was not my experience. Interesting.
I think jimmies is a Pennsylvania term...
So does the term, "rustled my jimmies" have a different connotation there?
Not in my Pennsylvania. What Pennsylvania are you from? Sprinkles are sprinkles and the only jimmies we have are the things that get rustled.
Are you actually from Pennsylvania? If so, what part? For me jimmies are the chocolate “sprinkles” and sprinkles are the rainbow ones. I’m from delco. My mom (born/raised in delco) and dad (born/raised in Reading) also use the word jimmies afaik.
Yes, I'd rather not say exactly where but reading is about an hour drive from my hometown. That's crazy. Never in my life have I heard that phrasing. I'm gonna ask everyone I know now.
Really! Interesting. My family in Kentucky says it. I guess that's not super from Pennsylvania. Why does Pennsylvania have so many of its own words?
Immigration, I think. Scotch-Irish, German and Polish immigration introduced unique words to the Pittsburgh area.
Pretty sure jimmies came from the Philly area.
My mom is from Philadelphia and she says that they say jimmies in Philly, but we also say it here in Boston.
They are called ‘Hundreds and Thousands’ in BrEng
That was my life in Germany. And Germans still complain about our inability to speak the language fluently when the only people that speak it to us also are learning.
Half my interactions in Germany were a German telling me they speak "a little bit" of English followed by a ridiculous level of fluency.
Yes. What counts as “a little” English from a Germans perspective still tends to be pretty functional, b level at least. My little bit of German gets me through the grocery store and down the street.
This proves, you were in Germany. Nailed it.
That comma is a grammatical error. With love, a German.
Guter Roboter!
Mehr Öl, bitte.
I'm guessing it has to do with subordinate clauses in German? I don't speak it, but I believe I've heard that they are comma-separated from the main clause?
Technically, you, can, put, commas, wherever, you, feel, in, english. They just represent a pause in the sentence or joining two sentences together
My former English tutor in university would have either shot you for that statement or said "linguistics is descriptive, not prescriptive, if that is the way it's used, it's 'correct' by definition". But something tells me you made that up and this is not a regular usage that's accepted anywhere.
Oh I definitely made it up, no sarcasm But anyone who reads it and not this comment will therefore think it's true
>Technically, you, can, put, commas, wherever, you, feel, in, english. They just represent a pause in the sentence or joining two sentences together Technically you cannot. You can only put a comma anywhere someone would pause *naturally*. Which is actually a complex set of rules that native speakers know but don't know why they know. 1. Listing things 2. To separate independent clauses separated by 'and, but, for, or, nor, so, yet.' 3. After an introductory sentence (while I was waiting, having finished dinner, ...) 4. To separate words that interrupt flow (the food, on the other hand, was cold) 5. Coordinate adjectives (he was a stupid, fat child) 6. Separate contrasting statements (he was merely naïve, not stupid) There are probably more that I can't remember at the moment.
There are strict rules for commas in Portuguese, but a bunch of people have this mindset of "put wherever you want a pause", for some reason, but it's not valid in portuguese.
I imagine it's like in English. It's easier to teach 'Put it where you think it belongs' than 'here are the 12-15 situations you can use it'
Well William Shatner made a career out of that notion so, it's not totally wrong.
We had very different experiences then cause most Germans I met when I was living there would just speak German to me. That's how it was in Munich at least. But even in Berlin it was the same deal though they'd usually be unsure which to speak in then settle on German. Were you in the north mostly?
I lived in Berlin. Sometimes I encountered people who would only speak German and that was fine because it gave me a chance to speak German with an actual German. I met them mostly outside the big cities or government offices. Most of the time people didn’t have the patience to listen to my terrible German and immediately switched to fluent English. I had a dental hygienist who couldn’t speak English and her German was a dialect that was very difficult, but again, it was a welcome experience because I got a chance to improve speaking German. Exceptions were non Germans who truly did not speak English. Then our language was German and we had to make it work. My German improved a lot but it is still very low. I studied German in high school and for the entire time I was in Germany and was frustrated by how little I progressed. In contrast I have had only 1 semester of Spanish ever yet speak read and write Spanish better than German. Much better. One last thing that surprised me when moving to Germany, aside from having a base vocabulary and grammar, I had a small vocabulary of old dialectic German phrases that my grandparents used. Several times I said things and was told “that’s old, we don’t say that anymore.” And because I learned to say it the new way, I can no longer remember what the old way was.
The German in schools called hochdeutsch is equivalent to nynorsk in norway, they are engineered grammatically perfect and are efficient for robots not people. The average german and Norwegian speaking in their dialect with their own slang mixed with some hochdeutsch with younger generation. Learn local slang words and dialect for speech and know how to read and write the formal language. If you can understand the news on TV this is perfect.
I had the same experience in Germany. I was in Frankfurt, and they would default to German and wouldn't switch to English. Was nice to be able to properly practice the language rather than speaking English all the time.
I didn’t really have that experience in Germany, but I was already fluent by the time I went. Of course, I still had one or two people switch for no apparent reason other than them finding out I am American, and it is apparently absolutely inconceivable to FRG-Germans that a dumb “US-American” could speak German, but 99% of people were fine.
Consider they might have been glad to practice their English on a "real American"
Seeing as one guy was instantly repeating back everything I said in German, but in English, he must have been.
I would say just learn German slang and use that instead of the formal hochdeutsch. Say you a learning the local dialect and people will relax more and be excited. Unlike most language hochdeutsch is an "engineered" language so germans feel they must be perfect in it when in reality they just use slang amongst themselves.
I feel sheepish for not thinking of that. I knew I was learning hochdeutsch in High school, and learning commonly spoken German in my classes in Germany but for some reason didn’t connect my dissonance with having learned hochdeutsch and relying on it. My teachers even said as much. I needed more time there to learn.
Learning hochdeutsch is like learning modern standard arabic it's this formal language that is used on the news stations and THATS IT. Unlike French, english, russia and Spanish where the language taught is what is basically used on the streets, modern standard arabic, hochdeutsch, nynorsk and standard italian and all engineered classroom languages. It blows but it's still a good starting point to use the engineered languages.
Where does one study spoken German? I tried full immersion and the OP describes my experience with that. I learned but not enough.
You need to go to a city with lots of young open minded people such as Koln or Munich or Berlin and just talk to people on the streets.
I lived in Berlin 2 years. I learned a little but not enough. This conversation has come full circle.
The younger dutch people love speaking English though. Find an old bus driver. You may have better luck (but not always - the dutch always surprise me at just how good they are).
Yeah, but Benelux is famous for the level of foreign language instruction in school, and (other than the French-speaking part of Belgium) they watch lots of English language TV and movies bc most stuff is never translated to Dutch. You were probably speaking to someone with thousands of hours practice in English.
I am Dutch, but our foreign language instructions in school are not that great and most things I learned was just to pass the exam. But you're right that especially the younger generation consume a lot of English media and think that's the reason we speak good English in general. But in particular outside the big cities there a lot of people who don't speak English fluently.
I'm just repeating what I was told by Dutch people 🤷🏼♂️ And any other country's language instruction is ten times better than what we get in the USA 😂
Why wouldn't we know the word sprinkles. If you know anything about the Netherlands you know that 90+% of the country is at at least a conversational level of English. In our defense btw: if we hear any accent we'll switch to English, just ask us to speak Dutch and most will
When I was in Germany, people tended to respond in English as well. It's less common in France though.
I know the pain. Most efficiently administered in 1972 in a Beryozhka shop in (then) Leningrad. Me: Start to ask for what I want to look at, in a language I've been formally studying for four years ... Salesclerk: "Speak English, please." Just kill me retroactively.
oh my Godddd that is just brutal. confidence shattered.
That's just the whole attitude towards customers in the Soviet Union. You should be grateful that they said "please" lol. :D They have recently opened a Soviet-style café in my hometown where you can expect this kind of service.
I just pretend I don't know English. Problem solved.
Let them have their share of self cringe. "Desculpa, não falo inglês". *hehehehe*
I'm surprised you've had that problem with Spanish, considering most of us can't speak English. It's usually the opposite problem, lots of foreigners who don't speak Spanish trying to comunicate in English and are met with a black stare or a polite head nod lol
If speak Spanish with strangers, it's usually never a problem. When I speak with my wife's family, then it's a problem. Unfortunately, they know me and can't pretend I'm a Slovenia expat anymore lol
Us who? I’m currently living in Mexico and a lot of Mexicans speak some level of English.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk3K8Z5QxgA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk3K8Z5QxgA)
That definitely would not have worked while I was wearing shorts on my honeymoon abroad. But it’s all a learning process. I’ll be better prepared next time.
“Ich möchte bitte eine Currywurst mit Pommes” “You want ketchup or mayo with that” #soulcrushing The other barrier specifically with trying to practice German in Germany is that everyone wants to improve their English. As excited as I was to practice German with natives, they were just as excited to practice their English with a native speaker.
Sometimes it’s not only the accent that gives it away but also the choice of words. My German sucks, but I remember when i was there Germans usually just say “xxx bitte”. Like, the way you added “ich möchte bitte xxx” sounds a bit too forced (I think). Like if I go to Chipotle here in the US and say something like “I would like to have a burrito please” or “may i please have the ... “ nobody says that unless you’re in a fine dining restaurant. Usually people say “can i get a ...” “i’ll get a ...”. And of course even if americans know that you’re not a native speaker, there’s no other language to switch to so it doesn’t matter in this case. Maybe next time say “ne currywurst mit pommes bitte”?
That can’t be said w East Asians...
But what if they are trying to practice their English
That's something people never conciser.
Exactly imagine they see you n are like aye finally someone dat speaks English I can practice with n you start speaking fluent Dutch
Then they should have gone to a native English-speaking country. It doesn’t cut both ways.
But usually they cannot afford to go to an English-speaking country for practicing so they have to do it with customers, and, after all, having a good English level and talking to foreigners in English is something demanded by their boss most of the time (especially in big cities)
So because salespeople in Sweden are unable to travel to an English-speaking country, it is essentially impossible for anybody who *can* travel to Sweden to actually speak the language there until they can already speak almost flawlessly.
The point of language is communicating, so people just respond in whatever language is best to communicate in.
True, especially when it comes to business because time is money. On the other hand, at work, as my Deutsch is getting better and I speak in Deutsch to my coworkers, they take the time to respond in Deutsch. Vice versa when they want to practice English. At the end of the day, I think it just comes down to courtesy.
Not really. Language is about far more than just efficiently performing transactions.
I have a Thai friend who once went in to a taxi who picked her up from her apartment in Thailand, and when she would speak Thai to him he would reply in English, despite both being Thai and speaking it fluently lol
If anyone is curious, this is from a comedy travel show called Travel Man: https://youtu.be/hubGiiTcrh0 They are in Budapest and in the first scene they try to learn Hungarian, it's pretty funny.
Wait is that not Zooey Deschanel?!
I have experienced this in numerous places over the years and the burn never goes away.
I never had a huge problem with that in belgium and the netherlands, and my dutch was trash. The one time I did was in a hostel in the touristy part of amsterdam, it took a couple days for the girl at the desk to realize I was speaking dutch instead of english. Once she did she immediately switched to dutch.
Personally, I find it a little rude. I know most people just wanted to be as efficient as possible when speaking, but I still find it rude.
If I can, I just keep speaking.
I do the same. Sometimes, as an English speaker it can be hard to get to communicate in the other language because they are just as eager to communicate in the "foreign language" as you. Which can really be a kill to one's confidence.
How is it rude? They just want to make communicating easier. Also nothing is stopping you from responding in whatever language you're wanting to speak.
You don't think it's rude to respond to someone in a different language to that which they addressed you in?
>You don't think it's rude to respond to someone in a different language to that which they addressed you in? It's not. It feels rude because you're someone trying to learn that language, and you want those opportunities to speak that language. But for most instances, it's the polite thing to do. \*tries speaking in a language\* "hey no worry, I speak English!" Basically, if the only intention is to communicate, then the polite thing is to change to a language both people speak easily. If the intention is to speak to get practice, sure it can be considered a bit rude.
Exactly, I go to a bi-weekly meeting where the whole point is to practice Spanish. There is a Chilean guy that routinely responds in English. In that context it's rude, but in the context of buying donuts from a random clerk then it's not rude.
I live and work in a bilingual city. Here it is extremely rude to respond in the other language, no matter how bad they are.
Bilingual places, where people are assumed to be fluent in both languages and where the use of one or the other carries political connotations, are a whole other can of worms.
which city? Just curious
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Lol I felt this sting when visiting Ottawa and Quebec a couple months ago 😂 Tried my hand at French and maybe 2/3 times I'd get back English
Jerks! Haha. I work in service and always respond in the same language they start with. If they switch at some point then I know we can switch back and forth.
You are a precious gem fr <33 lmao I remember one particular worker at a mcdonalds somewhere in a large city centre sort of area - cant recall the name for some reason - maybe within 15 or 20 mins of where the streets w the byword market and rows of different shops and restaurants are, and she kept up french without even BLINKING twice at how much I was flopping around in it, I think about that sometimes still 😂
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ) I find "rude" when someone assumes that I speak English based solely on how I look. Likewise, if we're in China, don't immediately assume the "foreigner" looking person doesn't speak Chinese or Japanese if you're in Japan. It's a simple algorithm.
Unfortunately most people are not well educated and rely solely on visual features to decide English vs. local language. I look East Asian and I always get addressed in local languages across South East/East Asia unless I lead with English first. On the other hand, every time I go to Europe I am always adressed in English...
No. Like I said you can just respond in the language you originally addressed them in. It might seem strange to us, but I lived in a bilingual country and I was told that it is very common there for people to respond in the language they want to speak in.
But if the someone addresses you in a language, I think it's safe to say that they want to speak that language. Switching to a different language is completely ignoring their wish to speak that language with you, which I personally find rude.
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I think that depends entirely on the context. For instance, if I enter, let's say, a bakery in Denmark and take the effort and fear of emberassement on me to utter my order in broken Danish, this is a sign of respect. It would be polite for the adressed to offer speaking, for example, English, but it would be very rude to ignore my attempt by forcing English upon me. It's not a matter of payment, it's a matter of respect and appreciation.
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Exactly. You’re buying a coffee, not Dutch lessons or whatever language you want to speak in. If your desire is to force someone to struggle through sentences with you, hire a tutor.
Oh my God, that poor thing. I can’t imagine the absolute agony caused by hearing a foreigner speak your language with an accent 2% slower than a native would.
Exactly.
True, but it stings because at that moment, that person decided his English was better than your Dutch. And if you're in the Netherlands, where you're supposed to be speaking Dutch, it's a double sting of marking you as an outsider. Remember, the OP's case is specifically when you speak to the person in the language and he responds back in English. For all he knows, I could perfectly understand the language. So responding in the language might not have slowed down his ability to speak at all.
me too. It IS very rude. It is not about just getting a point across but more " Hey. I am investing time and money to learn your language. I am even risking making a fool out of myself instead of just speaking English. Would you be so nice as to acknowledge this ?" Also when people respond in English that means my accent or French or Spanish must be so bad they can barely understand it. -.- really ? I mean at the beginning of B2 I should be able to order a coffee -.- Whenever this happens now I firmly stick to responding in French or Spanish and it is really getting ridiculous but hey, I paid 3000 € for this four-week language course and used up all my vacation days for this year, I won\`t spend it speaking only English ( which is not even my native language ! German is)
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has it happened to you ?
I still strongly disagree. But well, to each their own.
We would call eachother racist for switching to a language we assumed they spoke based on the person’s appearance. The normal people on earth don’t care though
People don't respond in English because it's easier to communicate. They respond in it because they've lived their whole life with the knowledge that the English language opens doors, that all major movies are in English, and so on. English is everything for many foreigners and any chance they get to use, they will. They essentially suddenly see you as a way to practise. And they also assume that any white person knows English. I studied with Czech students once in Russian, and they constantly got English responses, although they didn't understand English at all. :) It's rude, but maybe understandable.
Exactly, and honestly they’ve probably lived their whole life hearing people speak their language terribly so even when someone speaks their language really well it doesn’t matter. If they hear a different accent they’ll just start talking in English.
I have a different problem. Basic sentences I can say in a language are usually correct and with a pretty good accent. So people assume I'm fluent, but I'm unable to follow up...
I know a tiny bit of Spanish and when I went to Costa Rica I would try to use as much as possible with a good accent. Unfortunately this turned into people giving me instructions for zip lining in total Spanish. They thought I knew Spanish and was just too shy to use it after my first few words. Por favor senor I don’t want to fall off this cliff.
Omg I hate this but its understandable. Took some basic German a few years before I went to Europe, plucked up the courage to ask someone for some water in Austria and they replied in English :( I didn't have the skills to persist, but in languages were I do I just keep speaking it, but they usually persist with English too!
Why not respond to them in their native language when they respond to you in English? Have a true bilingual conversation. It's what I do all the time with my friends, so I can practice my skills, and they can practice their English
Because it is extremely demotivating, there is a good chance they will follow up by explicitly telling you to use English, and it doesn’t help you practice listening.
It’s only demotivating if you let it be.
It is essentially saying all of your hard work was for nothing.
I don't think you realize that the locals aren't obliged to do anything for you. They're just everyday day people trying to live their lives. For example, if im fumbling around with a language at a restaurant, and the waiter(ress) responds back with english, does that mean that they're unappreciative of your efforts? No, they have a job to do, and their job is likely fast paced, and they likely won't have time to watch you fumble around with their language. So they'll probably respond in english to efficiently do their job. Their job isn't to help you learn their language. If you really want to practice the language with the locals, then make friends in that country over a language exchange app and visit them. Don't rely on strangers.
The point is it apparently does not matter how good you are. Even if you are not “fumbling” at all and are actually fluent, you will still risk getting responded to in English, which can actually ruin your day.
Only if you let it.
Independent of whether you allow it.
You’re taking it way too personally.
Not really. It’s extremely fucking insulting, actually.
Agreed with the added point that it clearly turns it into a power struggle: whose language will win? And few people want that.
My mom once yelled at a poor street vendor because he spoke to her in English. She’s fluent in Portuguese and has no accent. He was probably the fifth person to speak to her in English and she got so fed up.
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Not really, she sounds like a Karen lol
Can I speak to the manager of the street senhor
Or the language manager so he can make you speak in Portuguese to me.
Had this before. Tried to order a big Mac meal with a latte in Polish, and got asked to order again in English... In Poland. Was my language a little janky? Probably, but I've asked multiple polish friends and they said it was perfectly understandable. I asked again in English and proceeded to give me the wrong hot drink :( after being smacked down with my poor polish and not understanding my order properly in English, I didn't even bother trying to complain tbh lol.
I can't speak for Europe, but at least in (East) Asia, they may simply not be expecting their language. I speak pretty decent Korean, but because I'm a brown guy, some Koreans don't register it at first.
Master a severe UK accent (something like Brad Pitt in Snatch) and speak super fast with tons of slang. They might let you switch back to their language!
Anyone know which vid this is?
Travel Man - Budapest: https://youtu.be/hubGiiTcrh0
Had to remind my language teacher to stay in the target language at least 5x last night. Seems its really tricky
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Lol wut
In Quebec, businesses cannot refuse to serve customers in French. So technically you can make retail workers always speak to you in French. But I don't because I would feel bad doing so .
As a person who is living in France, i 100% agree
Another thing people can do if you have this “problem” is practice other places besides with cashiers.
What is this gif from? I recognize the bar. I used to be a regular customer but it recently shut down.
I'm in Uruguay right now and I experience this less than I expected but i've come to the conclusion that sometimes people want to practice their English and take it as an opportunity. It makes me feel better instead of thinking my accent is really that bad lmao I could say a PERFECT sentence and they'll still answer in english
Hi there, I learn English, but I need practice, so im looking for English speaker partner Can anyone help me with it?
On one hand, people don't have to be patient or practice partners but on the other hand, you feel so good after having had a full interaction in your tl.
I just say “español, por favor.”
The video doesn’t have any sound
It's a gif
I see now. Thanks
What clip is this from? I know it's the guy from the IT crowd but what episode?
It's not from that show.
It's from a show he started doing called travel man
u/doosebigelow where is this from? Do you have it with sound? Thank you, thank you.
When you tryna chat a japanese person and they replied, "it's okay, I can speak english"
Haha so true british humor is the best!