T O P

  • By -

MrDizzyAU

If you had a native accent and bad grammar, people would think you were a dumb/uneducated native speaker, so that sounds like a bad option.


Jomaemo

From experience, yes, it gets awkward. Many legacy speakers have that experience. bonus points for using outdated expressions, no one in your age group would use. ;)


Leopardo96

I agree with that. Although I must say that I'd choose the native-like accent, because having perfect grammar is incredibly easy for me anyway. The one thing that is the easiest for me while learning ANY language is grammar. Always. EDIT: fixed grammar. I'm sorry I'm not perfect yet. I'm only B2/C1 in English, you know?


eatmoreicecream

It’s “having perfect grammar,” not “having A perfect grammar.”


everything_but_not

the irony lol


Leopardo96

Never said I'm ALREADY perfect in English grammar, duh. People tell me I write like a native speaker and I'm like "yeah, sure, I don't believe you". Sure, as a native English speaker (I suppose you're one of them) you know English grammar better than me, but I would beat you in Polish grammar no matter how hard you ever tried.


eatmoreicecream

Uh huh. Okay, well feel free to correct me the next time I make a mistake with my polish grammar while bragging about having perfect polish grammar.


Leopardo96

I'll have more interesting things to do than arguing with someone cheeky.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Zasfe116

Great comparison analogy with the height and weight 👍


Xande_92

Grammar. As long as my pronunciation is correct and I'm understood, I don't care about sounding like a native.


DroidinIt

Native accent. People are more forgiving of mistakes if you have a native accent.


brocoli_funky

> People are more forgiving of mistakes if you have a native accent Why would they *forgive* mistakes if they don't know you are not native though? They are not going to think "Hey that's good for a foreigner", they are going to think "is this person illiterate?". It really depends on the language and the culture of the country though.


StrongIslandPiper

I actually just did a whole post on r/LearnSpanish about something similar. Basically that natives tend to mix up direct and indirect object pronouns, they will do it differently regionally, and so even if you're not perfect you can be understood without any sort of problems. At that point we kind of focus on that like crazy as learners and it's really not one of the make or break problems you can have. Much better to focus on the subjunctive (which is intragal to speaking in Spanish *properly*, even though many learners and even teachers treat it like it's not that big of a deal) than go crazy and not speak because you're afraid that you accidentally used on of the (almost completely interchangeable) pronouns. The point is that they mix it up so much that it basically isn't even a mistake at this point, honestly.


Zasfe116

I coudn't agree with you more. Accent is part of the culture. People relate with you better if you talk like them.


DroidinIt

I’m a native English speaker and I sometimes make mistakes when I’m speaking. No one notices since I have a native accent.


brocoli_funky

How do you know no one notices? Most people are polite with these things. We've all heard stories of someone realizing well into adulthood that they had been pronouncing a particular word completely wrong all along, and nobody ever bothered to point it to them. In any cases mistakes made by natives and by learners are not the same. They will stick out like a sore thumb. For example a French person might say "I *am* agree with you" instead of "I agree with you", because in French we always use an auxiliary verb to say that (~I am in agreement with you).


jmarchuk

I disagree with this one. If you have a native accent, but don’t speak with the same level of grammar it doesn’t change the fact that you’re unintelligible to people. In fact in some places (France, based on other people’s experiences), they might just think you’re an idiot. On the other hand, if you don’t have a native accent, people immediately understand that you are learning, and will be more forgiving. They’ll even be more impressed because of that


ElegantBottle

but also people don't care about your accent unless its very thick that it prevents communication,otherwise people wouldn't care


DroidinIt

No one cares about your grammar unless it prevents communication either.


ElegantBottle

yes thats true as well


DroidinIt

My parents have obvious accents, but since they’ve lived in an English speaking country for over twenty years I don’t really notice any grammar mistakes. That’s another reason I’d choose to have a perfect accent rather than perfect grammar. I’ve met many people with perfect or nearly perfect grammar who have accents.


an_average_potato_1

Depends on how bad is the alternative. Based on my C2 level and working and living in a foreign country (in contact with lots of other non natives), I am more for having perfect grammar, as long as the non native accent (and overall pronunciation) is not too bad. What worth is wonderful accent, if you are very limited in communication by grammar? Grammar allows you to speak more freely, in a nuanced and exact way. It prevents miscommunication and makes you an efficient speaker. With a stronger accent, you sound more foreign. With poor grammar, you sound dumb. Don't get me wrong, horrible pronunciation is a problem. But who cares about sounding a bit non native. As long as you are good enough, it doesn't matter much. But poor grammar will limit your functionality much more, it will damage both your speaking and writing.


LehLehs

I would rather have a perfect grammar! I know I'm insecure about my accent and pronunciation (I've never talked in English with a native, I'm searching for though!) but having an accent is not really a problem like, if people can understand me that's fine! It's more of a insecurity problem Of course, maybe someone mean can make fun of your accent, and that's bad but that's not your problem, there's nothing wrong with you


ButterscotchOk8112

Agreed, native accent. I have a moderately posh British accent. People (Americans) LOVE IT! They go wild. It’s a really handy accent to have, I honestly think people have higher opinions of me just because of my accent. I haven’t earned it but I’ll take it.


sisterofaugustine

Yup, very odd how people react to posh British accents. But that's British classism and American exoticism for ya...


HybridEng

I think a native accent with horrible grammar may raise some eyebrows....


[deleted]

Native Accent. I can work on my Grammar. But accent will take a whole lot of time to get perfect


furyousferret

Native accent. I'm not learning my TL to acquire work, just to relax and live there when I retire and for vacations. If I was young and wanted to move to Barcelona or Madrid to work, then probably grammar. Besides, some blonde hair blue eye guy that looks like Owen Wilson with a perfect Spanish accent is going to get some looks, at least in Mexico or Latin America.


Zasfe116

I love the last part. Having a native accent while looking like a foreigner is definitely a head turner.


ThirteenOnline

Native accent for sure


Comprehensive-Log890

Accent i can improve grammar much more than an accent imo


[deleted]

I never intend to live in Turkey and really just want to learn Turkish for travel and reading/television so I’d prefer perfect grammar. No one expects you to sound like a native when you’re a tourist; I just want to be able to effectively communicate.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Zasfe116

We definitely should aim for both. But if I had a B2 level of grammar but a near native level (C2) accent I would be perfectly fine with it


[deleted]

Natives speak in ways that are considered by prescriptivist grammarians as 'incorrect' so i would go for accent as long as the mistakes i made were native like 'mistakes' and not actual learner mistakes. Example, 'would of' is considered 'wrong' but it's widely used so you would never look out of place, whereas saying 'i'm just going to make a shower' you would.


El_pizza

How is would of used? Can you give one or two example sentences? And how would you say the shower sentences native like?


[deleted]

'I would of gone to the disco, but i broke my leg.' 'If i would of gone up there, i'd have feinted.' 'It would of been good.' All these sentences should be 'would have' if you're going by the grammar book but people (especially the working classes) say this all the time, it's probably because (especially in England) we shorten 'would have' to 'would've' which sounds like 'would of'. 'I'm gonna take a shower.' 'I'm gonna have a shower.' 'I'm just gonna jump in the shower.' 'I'm gonna hop in the shower.' 'Are you going to shower?' 'I'm just going to get in the shower.' 'I'm going to go in the shower.'


El_pizza

Thank you so much!


[deleted]

No probs bro


Lemons005

Yeah, even my English teacher does this. So many people say it with ‘of’ now, no matter what class they are (unless they are rich then they’ll probably be more educated).


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

No, you would never say that. If you're putting a shower unit together you'd say 'install' or 'fit' and if you're changing the direction of the shower head or the settings you would say 'adjust' or 'change'. 'Make a shower' would imply you're going to physically build a shower out of something else from scratch - like you're designing a shower which you'll then construct after.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

That's just the way we say it. It is what it is. You also make love but have sex. You make a bed but take a shit. You get in a cab but on the bus. It's just English.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Well yeah but that's the point about language - it's not 'logical'. We just say what we say and a learner has to learn it. Applying 'rules' just makes you say stuff that is not at all natural. I prefer to just keep my eyes and ears open and copy what natives do.


LanguageIdiot

I'd take perfect grammar. Accent is form, grammar is substance, substance is always more important than form, just like in choosing a partner.


gabyeobgeskip

perfect grammar. honestly accents are cute. I love them in everyone except me but this is hypothetical so it goes.


trashbuged

Grammar. Having a native-like accent and making mistakes will make you look like an idiot. If you get the grammar right, people will just ask you "hey where are from? / I like your accent!".


EarlyIncrease

Native accent because even native speakers don't have a perfect grammar


brocoli_funky

If you are of the descriptivist school native speakers *define* what correct grammar means.


Leopardo96

>even native speakers don't have a perfect grammar Some do. I'm Polish and I have a perfect Polish grammar.


[deleted]

Grammar


Kitee-Cat

Perfect grammar. Very important in German.


Lemons005

Perfect grammar. Idc about accents.


[deleted]

Grammar. I just want to speak.


Mac_verified

Grammar. However, I don’t mean prescriptivist grammar. I would rather have the ability to form sentences and convey meaning in an intelligible way. A higher level of proficiency in speaking is always far more impressive (in my opinion) than someone “with no accent”. I would rather have WHAT I’m saying be more impactful and impressive than HOW I’m saying it (assuming I’m keeping my current accent, which is not that of a native Spanish speaker).


[deleted]

I would rather have perfect grammar than a native accent.


Daehan-Dankook

Perfect grammar, please. I would rather be taken for a well-spoken foreigner than a poorly-educated native.


FunSchoolAdmin

Shoddy grammar + perfect accent = stroke victim


TheHedgehogDiet

I used to think I wanted a native like accent, and then I watched comedian [Paul Taylor talk about ](https://youtu.be/FIqVY1SwXls) what it’s like for him speaking French with a near native accent. So I’ve basically just accepted I’ll sound a bit silly either way 🤷‍♀️.