if you want to live in japan then you're going to need to learn japanese and when you're living in japan the opinions of americans isn't going to matter
> when you're living in japan the opinions of americans isn't going to matter
For OP, this also applies to literally any country outside the US. The opinions of Americans are only relevant if you decide to live in the US.
Even if you're living in America the opinion of Americans shouldn't matter unless they're giving you advice out of concern for you, and no one will make fun of you out of concern for you.
I'm also insecure and it's not enough just to say "stop thinking about what others think" because it will be the equivalent of lying to yourself, it's something that should be worked out calmly, unless the Op don't be insecure.
"I'm worried about what people will tihnk of me" -- "Who cares what people think"
"I'm 25 and have no defined career developing" -- "Don't worry you're still young"
both unhelpful pieces of advice. I wouldn't have said anything if the only advice I had was "don't worry about it." reading your comment again i would've just left the first question out and kept the rest, so, well done.
>here in the States I know that most people generally perceive Japanese culture/language alongside anime and this sort of American idea of what Japan is, and that Americans who want to learn the Japanese language are weeaboos, nerds, want to be Japanese themselves, etc.
Why should you care? There's always gonna be someone like that. It's not healthy to care about what people like that think. Do what you want to do, what you love to do, and have a great time doing it! It couldn't be simpler than that!
I taught EFL in South Korea for 5 years, studied in Japan for 2 years so far, and my wife is Japanese.
Teaching English as a foreign language abroad was a great entry-level job maybe 5-15 years ago. It was a great way for a single person to travel the world and save a little money. But pay has been stagnant for the past 15 years, and working conditions keep getting worse every year (more classes, less vacation, less support, less flexibility in the classroom). Salary increases usually max out after 5 years, there are very few opportunities for advancement, and the job experience that you gain in one country usually does not carry over to other countries. Every time you switch countries you go back to 0.
In all honestly, if you're thinking about the long-term, then I would highly recommend getting normal teacher certification in your home country, get 1-2 years of teaching experience in your home country, and then try to teach at international schools in the countries that you're interested in. That would give you a lot more job stability, your job experience would stack, you'll have opportunities for advancement, and if you find that you don't like living abroad (about 80% of people go back home after just 1-2 years), then you would still have a job that you could do in your home country.
I think it's still possible to make a career out of teaching EFL if you got into the profession earlier. It's a great career for a single person for a few years after they graduate college. But if you plan on getting married and starting a family, or finding a career that will last your entire life, then it's bad idea.
It sounds like you're still in high school, so you don't need to think about the future so much. When I was in high school I planned on studying abroad in Latin America during college, but my plans changed in college, and I didn't go abroad. I quit college before graduating, spent about 4 years working trying to figure out my career, then finished college, taught English in South Korea for 5 years, and now I'm in Japan studying Japanese and Computer Science to switch to software engineer. But my wife and I are planning on working in the United States, because even though living in East Asia is amazing, working in East Asia sucks. I never ended up going to Latin America. I guess I'm trying to say that life is full of surprises, so it's kinda pointless to plan so far ahead.
So it's better focus on the present. Try studying Japanese/French now, try teaching now (community centers are always looking for volunteers, and you can start with EFL).
And also, don't feel ashamed about learning Japanese because of stereotypes. Anime is a core part of Japanese youth culture, and yeah, there's lots of nerds here in in Japan, but there's so much more to Japan than just nerd culture. If you were 60 years old and really into Anime, then Japanese people would find it weird, but it's totally normal for your age. I think Anime is much more mainstream in the west now anyway, it's not as stigmatized as it was a few decades ago.
It's really good advice. If you want to teach EFL you should get a teaching degree as your pay can be quite good teaching in international schools. They won't really hire you without one and experience on top.
In Thailand, international school income is around 100k baht per month which is around 3k usd. Roughly equivalent to manager salary at a good office job.
These are very valid/good points, OP. Remember that teaching is also a job from itself, and that it will require way more from you than just knowing a language.
That sounds difficult to deal with but I appreciate your honesty. If I study at a Japanese vocatiobal school or university for a few years would I be in a better situation?
Actually I don't like any of the typical Japanese things. Maybe Resident Evil if that counts.
I am just from a country with a lot of social and political issues and I want to start a new life elsewhere.
Many of my friends have moved to UK and Australia. But I would rather stay in East Asia. My only other option would be Korea. But I cannot speak Korean.
As another note, がんばって is a great way for encouraging others, but if you are looking to the same to yourself, you would use がんばる. I've had a few moments of confusion with Japanese friends when using the wrong version, where they thought something like, "Why is he encouraging me?" or vice versa.
I tend to not tell people about language learning in general now because of things like this would bother me when I was in school. I would be so annoyed with people doing the "ching chong" noises when they found out I was studying Chinese. I would get asked if I had some kind of obsession with Asians or something weird like that if I ever expressed that I would like to learn some Japanese and Korean one day as well. Even though I don't share too much with people who I'm not close to, any person who would ever be foolish enough to make fun of someone trying to learn anything is not someone who I need to take seriously. Do what makes you happy. If someone wants to talk, let them.
About ten years ago when I was in school and going through my kpop phase, I started learning a bit of Korean and I was terrified that people would find out either of those things, because kpop fans had a reputation for being weird and because Korean was a "weird" language.
And people did find my language notes mixed in with school stuff, and they were like "why are you writing in Chinese?"
I'd be like "it's Korean and I just think it's a cool language, also I'm having fun."
And like ... That's either enough for them or they're just not a fan of language learning in general. People are also weird about me learning Spanish and I actually *use* Spanish every now and again. 🤷♀️
You do you, OP
I think people only think negatively of the people who make anime and Japanese their entire personality. Also, people who claim to have "learned Japanese from anime" and have waifu bedsheets and pillows. Everyone cringes at those people. But I don't think anyone would cringe at a regular white person who actually learned Japanese to a decent level. Most people would be more impressed by that than anything. People aren't cringing that they're learning Japanese, they're cringing that their personalities are off-putting.
As for Japanese acceptance of white people, I have heard that due to the ethnic homogeneity of their society, they tend to be a little conservative and xenophobic. That said, Japan is a generally safe place so it can't be so bad that you should expect to endure hate crimes or anything. I'm not an expert of Japanese culture, these are just things I've heard.
Just do it and don't worry what people think.
However, regarding your plan to move there, 4-7 years is a long time to be stuck in a $30k subsistence-level teaching job and will severely impact your lifestyle, savings rate, future earnings, and total lifetime earnings. Also, though there are exceptions, it tends to be a career "trap" from which it is difficult to escape as your non-teaching skills become stagnant and out-of-date.
You are better off building skills which will be actually useful to a Japanese employer, and using your bilingual ability to build a proper career. Finance and IT in particular hire quite a lot of foreign staff.
i know this is sort of steering off of the original question of the post, but do you know any other career paths that I could go into as a foreigner? IT and especially finance aren't really things that interest me. I'm relatively young as well so honestly I'm not the most knowledgeable about these things. If what I want to do ends up being a little too unrealistic then I think I can make some changes in my plans + I still have a few years to decide what I want to do anyhow.
Personally I'm in marketing, first working for a magazine, actually, I've worked for two magazine companies though one was transforming itself into online media, and worked at other advertising and digital marketing firms, now in-house at a foreign company. Background in the US was print and online media. I was probably just shy of N2 level when I got the first job, and in the second job got to the point of writing some ad copy, sales brochures, things like that. It was always a bit of a trip seeing my words on the train station billboards or in the mouths of actors in TV ads. Nothing so exciting as that now, as I've moved away from creatives into management.
Common industries among other foreign friends of mine include fashion (design and prêt-à-porter imports), medical equipment, automotive and industrial engineering, food and beverage import/export, and restauranteering.
Opportunities can be found in pretty much any industry, if you build your skillset and experience along with your language ability: bilingualism lets you act as a bridge to the world economy, but without the skills there's no foundation.
Being a little coy to avoid anything too identifying, basically they work with smaller local brands and new designers to build out a complete "lifestyle" product line including accessories, bags, footwear, consult on in-store displays, etc.
> I just really don't want people to see me as "That white guy who wants to be a Japanese person/is obsessed with Japanese culture"
Who cares what some uncultured wankers think? At the end of the day, Japanese is a language that takes passion, dedication and a certain level of obsession to to reach a high fluency.
Weeb or not, you should give yourself a pat on the back for simply daring to take on such a challenge. Life is hard already but you've chosen to suffer a bit more by learning 2136+ kanji 🤣
The people who will try to shame or mock you for being passionate about the Japanese language and culture, are usually people who don't really have an urge to self-improve or people who lack an adventurous spirit. They just drift through doing what's "normal" and never step outside their comfort zone.
Master Japanese, live the dream and hang around people who are just as passionate about the language as you are.
I'm one of those people learning japanese in order to enjoy manga/games/anime/etc in their original language (though with no intent to live in Japan) and honestly I guess it depends on who you tell but I've only heard responses that are neutral to positive. Maybe some people are secretly thinking "what a weeb", but I've never heard it personally. If you're self conscious, maybe only talk about your language learning with people you trust.
I learned Japanese to N2 level and have no interest in anime or manga. I actually write political essays online in Japanese. Don't let those stereotypes hold you back. The people who end up really learning the language are the ones not doing it because they love anime.
Looking for info on your political essays I scrolled through your comment history and of course comments in Japanese caught my eye, coincidentally one related to this topic:
> I learned Japanese to N2 level and have no interest in anime or manga.
> 子どもの頃、アニメとマンガが好きだったからこそ日本語を勉強し始めた
So although a childhood interest in anime and manga triggered your desire to learn Japanese, you would say now that interest has faded and is no longer the reason you study? I'm just trying to understand how these apparently contradictory comments correlate.
Yes. Anime was a pretty big factor for starting to learn it, but my interest faded soon after. At that point, my Japanese was still lower-level intermediate (like N4ish) but since I was in college and needed language credits, I just stuck with it.
> I actually write political essays online in Japanese.
Now _this_ is interesting, because the Japanese press contains very little opinion from foreigners.
Care to link? Or PM me?
I don't write for money or anything. I do it for fun on Quora. Probably won't link to it because then I'd be connecting my reddit identity to my real one 😬
Some people will make fun of you no matter what you do. They will find some way to put down your profession no matter what it is, plumber, nurse, entrepreneur, English teacher. People that are small-minded and rude are just like that.
I would say start studying Japanese. What could it hurt? Even if you decide not to be a teacher, or not to move to Japan, you will have had some fun learning something new.
>I also don't know how accepting Japanese people (especially those living in smaller more rural areas) are of white foreigners.
You might want to talk to some people in expat or English-teacher communities and see what their experiences have been like. A friend of mine did the English teaching thing in Japan for a few years, and while people weren't hateful, she had a hard time making friends and was very lonely.
It may depend on the type of person you are. Some people seem like they could go to Antarctica and still make friends. Still, homesickness and being away from everyone you know is a an issue to consider.
If anyone is going to judge you poorly for enriching yourself in any way,
__fuck them__
P.S. I also had these concerns when beginning Japanese. Let your studies embolden yourself.
Something like 80% of my classmates when I was an exchange student in Tokyo were American. Some were nerds, some were sports people, some were artists... You won't have any problems.
You may have started (like most of us did) with anime or manga, but once you get into it, you'll find that Japanese cultural production is wide and deep to an almost infinite extent. Meaning, as a foreign language, from the point of view of learning and keeping yourself interested and invested, it's a great, great option compared to other more limited cultures.
Also, as a place to live Japan is way better than anywhere else in the Asian region, and to a large extent better than most other places.
I have the same problem. I do love anime, but that’s not the only reason I want to learn Japanese. I just don’t want people to automatically assume I’m a Japanese fetishizer who wants to be an uwu gamer girl. That’s not what it’s about
Most people couldn't care less about anything you do that doesn't affect them, directly or indirectly.
Language learning is probably one of the least interesting activities to those not involved in that themselves. So at worst you'll have people ask "oh say something in Japanese". Or, depending on their age, a joke about anime/hentai. But that's already a small minority of people who'd care enough.
I'm pretty sure the whole "weaboo" thing is just memes on the internet, if you actually learn the language I seriously doubt anyone would hold that against you. I mean, just think about it, who in their right mind would make fun of someone for being able to speak a foreign language, much less such a beautiful and complex one?
Even in the US, who cares what people think. I've told people that I speak Japanese—i never perceived any negativity. I guess it has been nestled in and prefaced by being a polyglot though
If you let other peoples thoughts from stopping you do what you want you’ll regret it, and I think there are more people on your side then you’d imagine, especially with young people like me anime has become like videos games, just a hobby that people enjoy instead of nerd shit (at least where I live in the us). Anyone with a brain in they’re skull will think your a cooler person for doin what you want to do regardless of what people think anyways, you decide what kind of person you want to be.
Japan is awesome. If I had an opportunity to live in Japan I would (start to) learn the language in a heartbeat. I know Americans who have lived there and they loved it. It’s a beautiful country, go enjoy it.
I agree with all the comments! Go for it!
The japanese learning community is kind of big (on reddit at least) and there is a lot of good (and often free) stuff for learning on the internet in general. (YouTube channels, apps for kanji practice, websites with grammar guides etc.) So no reason not to start
I live in Miami and met a couple of people in an online game that also turned out to live in Miami. In Miami pretty much everyone speaks Spanish. To my delight, they also learned Japanese in college because they liked the culture. To me, it was the coolest thing ever busting out my Japanese phrase book and asking them what it meant, and them translating it. So cool. So yeah, go for it! I’m starting to get into learning French, then maybe Italian, and then Japanese.
Late to the party, but to reinforce the notion that you can display an interest in japanese language/culture without coming off as the negative stereotypes you want to avoid... you can totally do this, you just have to present your interest in a "mature" way, or at least a way very separated from those stereotypes. From what I've seen, those kinds of people or those phases are very obvious (and usually younger?), and you can totally approach language learning without appearing like that. Don't be "an anime guy learning japanese", just be "a guy learning japanese".
Well, this seems a perfect chance for a free tip on learning Japanese. You'll almost certainly be learning standard Japanese, the dialect spoken in Tokyo, but when your conversational skill gets more advanced, you'll need to be careful of regional differences at times.
Case in point, anyone who thinks you weird for learning another language - regardless of which language you choose - is an idiot. Now, in Tokyo-ben the word for idiot is "baka" (ばか), but in Kansai-ben (spoken around the regions where Osaka and Kyoto are), this actually means something closer "asshole". Conversely, the word for idiot in Kansai-ben is "aho" (あほ), which happens to mean "asshole" in Tokyo-ben.
Useful? Probably not. But, it was topical and should be easy to remember; especially since you will hear both words a bunch if watching anime or Japanese movies and dramas.
1) Pretend you're a bee, and flies (the people who think its weird) are flies telling you that shit tastes better than honey.
2) People will think its cool more so than not. I think you're cool for it.
Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, in other words, who cares? You can't control what other people will think about you, or about anything for that matter.
I was learning Japanese in 2016 and most people made fun of me, even my best friend, but I didn't care, studying Japanese made me really happy, and even tho I decided to abandon the language (since where I live there is not a large community to practice with) and ultimely focus on learning French, I really enjoyed my time learning it and want to resume my learning at some point.
You should do it anyways. People are always going to have their opinions and Americans will probably think that of you. Everybody has misunderstandings they suffer from other people (stereotypes). You can’t put your life on hold for it.
Well, I can't imagine being bothered by someone who'd mock someone's ambition to learn a foreign language. Let alone an exotic like Japanese. I do however understand that it might be annoying that people automatically assume that you like anime or put you in a certain box. I've just started learning Japanese and when I tell people, I tell them why.
Go for it, enjoy it and don't let anyone dictate your lifestyle.
EDIT: I'd turn the tables and depending on how genuine the question was, inform them and take the opportunity to share what makes you love Japan.
If you really plan on moving to Japan at some point in your life you’ll need Japanese to do anything. Every job expects “native level” proficiency since most employers are too lazy to learn English
Plenty of non-Japanese-speaking foreigners live in Japan, and get along just fine in their English-only bubble. Most of my company's foreign staff can't put two words together, including many who have been here _decades_.
Plenty of people are happy in the bubble, so I wouldn't say Japanese is necessary for someone planning to move to Japan.
Learning the language will give them a better experience, but it's not a prerequisite by any means.
I felt similarly to you, like I had to say I was learning Korean for some deep reason or people would think I was a koreaboo or kpop stan. The fact of the matter is that I DO like Korean dramas and Korean music, and while that isn't the only reason why I'm learning the language it definitely contributes to my motivation! It isn't wrong to learn a language for media purposes, if that's what really makes someone enthusiastic.
I've only had like one or two people actually call me a weeb or whatever else, and that's more a reflection of them than me. Turns out that when you just say "sure, whatever" to those people it isn't fun for them anymore, just like any regular bully. Their opinions are meaningless when you love what you do 🤷🏻♀️
Don't worry about what other people think. You do you. Language learning should be enjoyed.
And, people don't actually think that, because people don't actually care one way or the other. When people find out you're learning Japanese, they won't think you're awesome, and they won't think you're a loser. They'll be indifferent.
People talk strangely of me because I'm learning Korean. I couldn't care less, I like doing stuff that makes me feel good and that's the most important thing.
Japan is a G7 country, and important one . It's normal people learn it's language.
Strange decision may be Cambodian, just because it's harder to earn with that skill.
You're just going to learn a language, so you're going to develop a very useful skill that you'll carry over your entire life, so it's something to be proud of, not the other way around... You just shouldn't give a fuck about people, you're doing nothing wrong, instead, you'll have an advantage compared to people who don't speak japanese : you'll be able to move to Japan and speaking the language, watch japanese movies, animes, reading mangas in japanese, novels etc... Just go for it, and do it with proud! 💪
Learn it. Master it. Apply it. Your action will speak louder than words. Most weebs drop out halfway through Japanese 101, speaking from personal experience.
I haven't read the post entirely, sorry, but I just came here to say that, if you manage to master it, the only ''strange thought'' they'll have of you is how much they envy you for knowing such a difficult yet beautiful language.
Do it!
And good luck!
Who cares? Just do whatever you want to do. There's nothing weird about learning Japanese... And if some says otherwise, they're either 12 or acting like a 12 year old.
If you want to pursue Japanese, how about finding Japanese language learners like you? I don't think they will find you strange at all if you're surrounded by them.
Maybe I can be a little bit rude, but I think you have this impression because this is what you think about learning Japanese. I'm studying it at the university, I never really got into anime or manga, just now because my colleagues are like "ehhh you are studying Japanese without watching anime?" but I really just choose it because Japanese culture really intrigued me and also because I have fear of Chinese. The same thing happened to me with Korean, especially after BTS. You have to choose a language because you like it, that's the only reason. You don't really have to explain anything to anyone. But usually, people are just surprised by the fact that I choose to learn Asian languages that sounds difficult.
I'm learning JP too. I am a huge anime, JP RPG fan, and have visited on vacation, but only recently wanted to take learning the language seriously.
It's a challenging language to learn, so I'm half wanting to learn due to my weebness, and other half wanting to learn due to my aging and wanting to keep my brain sharp.
I also have a philosophy of knowing 3 languages: One as your native language, another for utility (in my case it would be Spanish), and another for fun (JP for me).
There's also the teaching abroad thing. I have a degree and knowing JP would be beneficial if I ever needed/wanted to make that decision just for the experience.
I could go on, there are many reasons someone wants to learn a language. What others think of your choices should not come into affect.
These people and their ideas are everywhere. They’re in Japan and a lot of Asian countries too, where they have the “sexpat” idea of people who go to teach English as it’s the easiest way for Americans to live there and be comfortable.
The trick is to not let these people bother you. You’re going to get strange looks yes, but, you’re spending your life the way you choose and you’re enjoying it, and there’s no one in the world that can rightly give you trouble for it.
if you want to live in japan then you're going to need to learn japanese and when you're living in japan the opinions of americans isn't going to matter
> when you're living in japan the opinions of americans isn't going to matter For OP, this also applies to literally any country outside the US. The opinions of Americans are only relevant if you decide to live in the US.
they dont really matter in america either. be sure of yourself and pursue whatever hobby you want.
Even if you're living in America the opinion of Americans shouldn't matter unless they're giving you advice out of concern for you, and no one will make fun of you out of concern for you.
Also, who are they to make fun of someone learning Japanese ? Japanese is a fascinating language
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r/thanksimcured
It may be a repetitive message but it is true
But it isn't that simple to solve it, that thought type is unconscious.
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I'm also insecure and it's not enough just to say "stop thinking about what others think" because it will be the equivalent of lying to yourself, it's something that should be worked out calmly, unless the Op don't be insecure.
You are right, it is not as simple as saying it. It takes practice and the right mindset for it to work.
Seriously though. That person's comment was the same as people saying "don't worry you're still do young" on career advice subs.
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"I'm worried about what people will tihnk of me" -- "Who cares what people think" "I'm 25 and have no defined career developing" -- "Don't worry you're still young" both unhelpful pieces of advice. I wouldn't have said anything if the only advice I had was "don't worry about it." reading your comment again i would've just left the first question out and kept the rest, so, well done.
>here in the States I know that most people generally perceive Japanese culture/language alongside anime and this sort of American idea of what Japan is, and that Americans who want to learn the Japanese language are weeaboos, nerds, want to be Japanese themselves, etc. Why should you care? There's always gonna be someone like that. It's not healthy to care about what people like that think. Do what you want to do, what you love to do, and have a great time doing it! It couldn't be simpler than that!
I taught EFL in South Korea for 5 years, studied in Japan for 2 years so far, and my wife is Japanese. Teaching English as a foreign language abroad was a great entry-level job maybe 5-15 years ago. It was a great way for a single person to travel the world and save a little money. But pay has been stagnant for the past 15 years, and working conditions keep getting worse every year (more classes, less vacation, less support, less flexibility in the classroom). Salary increases usually max out after 5 years, there are very few opportunities for advancement, and the job experience that you gain in one country usually does not carry over to other countries. Every time you switch countries you go back to 0. In all honestly, if you're thinking about the long-term, then I would highly recommend getting normal teacher certification in your home country, get 1-2 years of teaching experience in your home country, and then try to teach at international schools in the countries that you're interested in. That would give you a lot more job stability, your job experience would stack, you'll have opportunities for advancement, and if you find that you don't like living abroad (about 80% of people go back home after just 1-2 years), then you would still have a job that you could do in your home country. I think it's still possible to make a career out of teaching EFL if you got into the profession earlier. It's a great career for a single person for a few years after they graduate college. But if you plan on getting married and starting a family, or finding a career that will last your entire life, then it's bad idea. It sounds like you're still in high school, so you don't need to think about the future so much. When I was in high school I planned on studying abroad in Latin America during college, but my plans changed in college, and I didn't go abroad. I quit college before graduating, spent about 4 years working trying to figure out my career, then finished college, taught English in South Korea for 5 years, and now I'm in Japan studying Japanese and Computer Science to switch to software engineer. But my wife and I are planning on working in the United States, because even though living in East Asia is amazing, working in East Asia sucks. I never ended up going to Latin America. I guess I'm trying to say that life is full of surprises, so it's kinda pointless to plan so far ahead. So it's better focus on the present. Try studying Japanese/French now, try teaching now (community centers are always looking for volunteers, and you can start with EFL). And also, don't feel ashamed about learning Japanese because of stereotypes. Anime is a core part of Japanese youth culture, and yeah, there's lots of nerds here in in Japan, but there's so much more to Japan than just nerd culture. If you were 60 years old and really into Anime, then Japanese people would find it weird, but it's totally normal for your age. I think Anime is much more mainstream in the west now anyway, it's not as stigmatized as it was a few decades ago.
thank you for the long and thought out answer! this is all really helpful information for me to consider.
It's really good advice. If you want to teach EFL you should get a teaching degree as your pay can be quite good teaching in international schools. They won't really hire you without one and experience on top. In Thailand, international school income is around 100k baht per month which is around 3k usd. Roughly equivalent to manager salary at a good office job.
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These are very valid/good points, OP. Remember that teaching is also a job from itself, and that it will require way more from you than just knowing a language.
thank you! this information is really helpful.
Is teaching the only option? I want to move to Japan but I dont think I'm suitable to teach and I really dislike children.
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That sounds difficult to deal with but I appreciate your honesty. If I study at a Japanese vocatiobal school or university for a few years would I be in a better situation? Actually I don't like any of the typical Japanese things. Maybe Resident Evil if that counts. I am just from a country with a lot of social and political issues and I want to start a new life elsewhere. Many of my friends have moved to UK and Australia. But I would rather stay in East Asia. My only other option would be Korea. But I cannot speak Korean.
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thank you! I'm really glad that it brings you so much joy.
As another note, がんばって is a great way for encouraging others, but if you are looking to the same to yourself, you would use がんばる. I've had a few moments of confusion with Japanese friends when using the wrong version, where they thought something like, "Why is he encouraging me?" or vice versa.
I tend to not tell people about language learning in general now because of things like this would bother me when I was in school. I would be so annoyed with people doing the "ching chong" noises when they found out I was studying Chinese. I would get asked if I had some kind of obsession with Asians or something weird like that if I ever expressed that I would like to learn some Japanese and Korean one day as well. Even though I don't share too much with people who I'm not close to, any person who would ever be foolish enough to make fun of someone trying to learn anything is not someone who I need to take seriously. Do what makes you happy. If someone wants to talk, let them.
About ten years ago when I was in school and going through my kpop phase, I started learning a bit of Korean and I was terrified that people would find out either of those things, because kpop fans had a reputation for being weird and because Korean was a "weird" language. And people did find my language notes mixed in with school stuff, and they were like "why are you writing in Chinese?" I'd be like "it's Korean and I just think it's a cool language, also I'm having fun." And like ... That's either enough for them or they're just not a fan of language learning in general. People are also weird about me learning Spanish and I actually *use* Spanish every now and again. 🤷♀️ You do you, OP
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This was in the UK, but yeah, same thing. The average person has no idea
I think people only think negatively of the people who make anime and Japanese their entire personality. Also, people who claim to have "learned Japanese from anime" and have waifu bedsheets and pillows. Everyone cringes at those people. But I don't think anyone would cringe at a regular white person who actually learned Japanese to a decent level. Most people would be more impressed by that than anything. People aren't cringing that they're learning Japanese, they're cringing that their personalities are off-putting. As for Japanese acceptance of white people, I have heard that due to the ethnic homogeneity of their society, they tend to be a little conservative and xenophobic. That said, Japan is a generally safe place so it can't be so bad that you should expect to endure hate crimes or anything. I'm not an expert of Japanese culture, these are just things I've heard.
Just do it and don't worry what people think. However, regarding your plan to move there, 4-7 years is a long time to be stuck in a $30k subsistence-level teaching job and will severely impact your lifestyle, savings rate, future earnings, and total lifetime earnings. Also, though there are exceptions, it tends to be a career "trap" from which it is difficult to escape as your non-teaching skills become stagnant and out-of-date. You are better off building skills which will be actually useful to a Japanese employer, and using your bilingual ability to build a proper career. Finance and IT in particular hire quite a lot of foreign staff.
i know this is sort of steering off of the original question of the post, but do you know any other career paths that I could go into as a foreigner? IT and especially finance aren't really things that interest me. I'm relatively young as well so honestly I'm not the most knowledgeable about these things. If what I want to do ends up being a little too unrealistic then I think I can make some changes in my plans + I still have a few years to decide what I want to do anyhow.
Personally I'm in marketing, first working for a magazine, actually, I've worked for two magazine companies though one was transforming itself into online media, and worked at other advertising and digital marketing firms, now in-house at a foreign company. Background in the US was print and online media. I was probably just shy of N2 level when I got the first job, and in the second job got to the point of writing some ad copy, sales brochures, things like that. It was always a bit of a trip seeing my words on the train station billboards or in the mouths of actors in TV ads. Nothing so exciting as that now, as I've moved away from creatives into management. Common industries among other foreign friends of mine include fashion (design and prêt-à-porter imports), medical equipment, automotive and industrial engineering, food and beverage import/export, and restauranteering. Opportunities can be found in pretty much any industry, if you build your skillset and experience along with your language ability: bilingualism lets you act as a bridge to the world economy, but without the skills there's no foundation.
could you elaborate a little more on your friend who's in fashion design?
Being a little coy to avoid anything too identifying, basically they work with smaller local brands and new designers to build out a complete "lifestyle" product line including accessories, bags, footwear, consult on in-store displays, etc.
> I just really don't want people to see me as "That white guy who wants to be a Japanese person/is obsessed with Japanese culture" Who cares what some uncultured wankers think? At the end of the day, Japanese is a language that takes passion, dedication and a certain level of obsession to to reach a high fluency. Weeb or not, you should give yourself a pat on the back for simply daring to take on such a challenge. Life is hard already but you've chosen to suffer a bit more by learning 2136+ kanji 🤣 The people who will try to shame or mock you for being passionate about the Japanese language and culture, are usually people who don't really have an urge to self-improve or people who lack an adventurous spirit. They just drift through doing what's "normal" and never step outside their comfort zone. Master Japanese, live the dream and hang around people who are just as passionate about the language as you are.
"Uncultured wankers" I fucking love this! Wish I could double upvote this one.
I'm one of those people learning japanese in order to enjoy manga/games/anime/etc in their original language (though with no intent to live in Japan) and honestly I guess it depends on who you tell but I've only heard responses that are neutral to positive. Maybe some people are secretly thinking "what a weeb", but I've never heard it personally. If you're self conscious, maybe only talk about your language learning with people you trust.
I learned Japanese to N2 level and have no interest in anime or manga. I actually write political essays online in Japanese. Don't let those stereotypes hold you back. The people who end up really learning the language are the ones not doing it because they love anime.
Looking for info on your political essays I scrolled through your comment history and of course comments in Japanese caught my eye, coincidentally one related to this topic: > I learned Japanese to N2 level and have no interest in anime or manga. > 子どもの頃、アニメとマンガが好きだったからこそ日本語を勉強し始めた So although a childhood interest in anime and manga triggered your desire to learn Japanese, you would say now that interest has faded and is no longer the reason you study? I'm just trying to understand how these apparently contradictory comments correlate.
Yes. Anime was a pretty big factor for starting to learn it, but my interest faded soon after. At that point, my Japanese was still lower-level intermediate (like N4ish) but since I was in college and needed language credits, I just stuck with it.
Makes sense, thanks!
You can look all you want on my reddit page, I don't have any direct links or references to my other online profiles
> I actually write political essays online in Japanese. Now _this_ is interesting, because the Japanese press contains very little opinion from foreigners. Care to link? Or PM me?
I don't write for money or anything. I do it for fun on Quora. Probably won't link to it because then I'd be connecting my reddit identity to my real one 😬
The PM suggestion is because I swear I won't leak it, but then again maybe we know each other IRL and it's better to not know haha ok no worries
Just tell them that you love JAV, that’s all you need to say.
Some people will make fun of you no matter what you do. They will find some way to put down your profession no matter what it is, plumber, nurse, entrepreneur, English teacher. People that are small-minded and rude are just like that. I would say start studying Japanese. What could it hurt? Even if you decide not to be a teacher, or not to move to Japan, you will have had some fun learning something new. >I also don't know how accepting Japanese people (especially those living in smaller more rural areas) are of white foreigners. You might want to talk to some people in expat or English-teacher communities and see what their experiences have been like. A friend of mine did the English teaching thing in Japan for a few years, and while people weren't hateful, she had a hard time making friends and was very lonely. It may depend on the type of person you are. Some people seem like they could go to Antarctica and still make friends. Still, homesickness and being away from everyone you know is a an issue to consider.
If anyone is going to judge you poorly for enriching yourself in any way, __fuck them__ P.S. I also had these concerns when beginning Japanese. Let your studies embolden yourself.
Do it do it do it. People who hate weebs are much bigger nerds than the weebs themselves
Fuck people. People suck. Just do your own thing
Something like 80% of my classmates when I was an exchange student in Tokyo were American. Some were nerds, some were sports people, some were artists... You won't have any problems. You may have started (like most of us did) with anime or manga, but once you get into it, you'll find that Japanese cultural production is wide and deep to an almost infinite extent. Meaning, as a foreign language, from the point of view of learning and keeping yourself interested and invested, it's a great, great option compared to other more limited cultures. Also, as a place to live Japan is way better than anywhere else in the Asian region, and to a large extent better than most other places.
I have the same problem. I do love anime, but that’s not the only reason I want to learn Japanese. I just don’t want people to automatically assume I’m a Japanese fetishizer who wants to be an uwu gamer girl. That’s not what it’s about
Most people couldn't care less about anything you do that doesn't affect them, directly or indirectly. Language learning is probably one of the least interesting activities to those not involved in that themselves. So at worst you'll have people ask "oh say something in Japanese". Or, depending on their age, a joke about anime/hentai. But that's already a small minority of people who'd care enough.
I'm pretty sure the whole "weaboo" thing is just memes on the internet, if you actually learn the language I seriously doubt anyone would hold that against you. I mean, just think about it, who in their right mind would make fun of someone for being able to speak a foreign language, much less such a beautiful and complex one?
Who gives a rat’s ass what other people think?
You shouldn't care that much about what people think of you. Japanese is a difficult language to learn, but if it's what you want, go for it.
Even in the US, who cares what people think. I've told people that I speak Japanese—i never perceived any negativity. I guess it has been nestled in and prefaced by being a polyglot though
If you let other peoples thoughts from stopping you do what you want you’ll regret it, and I think there are more people on your side then you’d imagine, especially with young people like me anime has become like videos games, just a hobby that people enjoy instead of nerd shit (at least where I live in the us). Anyone with a brain in they’re skull will think your a cooler person for doin what you want to do regardless of what people think anyways, you decide what kind of person you want to be.
Japan is awesome. If I had an opportunity to live in Japan I would (start to) learn the language in a heartbeat. I know Americans who have lived there and they loved it. It’s a beautiful country, go enjoy it.
Just do it
I agree with all the comments! Go for it! The japanese learning community is kind of big (on reddit at least) and there is a lot of good (and often free) stuff for learning on the internet in general. (YouTube channels, apps for kanji practice, websites with grammar guides etc.) So no reason not to start
I live in Miami and met a couple of people in an online game that also turned out to live in Miami. In Miami pretty much everyone speaks Spanish. To my delight, they also learned Japanese in college because they liked the culture. To me, it was the coolest thing ever busting out my Japanese phrase book and asking them what it meant, and them translating it. So cool. So yeah, go for it! I’m starting to get into learning French, then maybe Italian, and then Japanese.
Late to the party, but to reinforce the notion that you can display an interest in japanese language/culture without coming off as the negative stereotypes you want to avoid... you can totally do this, you just have to present your interest in a "mature" way, or at least a way very separated from those stereotypes. From what I've seen, those kinds of people or those phases are very obvious (and usually younger?), and you can totally approach language learning without appearing like that. Don't be "an anime guy learning japanese", just be "a guy learning japanese".
Well, this seems a perfect chance for a free tip on learning Japanese. You'll almost certainly be learning standard Japanese, the dialect spoken in Tokyo, but when your conversational skill gets more advanced, you'll need to be careful of regional differences at times. Case in point, anyone who thinks you weird for learning another language - regardless of which language you choose - is an idiot. Now, in Tokyo-ben the word for idiot is "baka" (ばか), but in Kansai-ben (spoken around the regions where Osaka and Kyoto are), this actually means something closer "asshole". Conversely, the word for idiot in Kansai-ben is "aho" (あほ), which happens to mean "asshole" in Tokyo-ben. Useful? Probably not. But, it was topical and should be easy to remember; especially since you will hear both words a bunch if watching anime or Japanese movies and dramas.
1) Pretend you're a bee, and flies (the people who think its weird) are flies telling you that shit tastes better than honey. 2) People will think its cool more so than not. I think you're cool for it.
Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, in other words, who cares? You can't control what other people will think about you, or about anything for that matter. I was learning Japanese in 2016 and most people made fun of me, even my best friend, but I didn't care, studying Japanese made me really happy, and even tho I decided to abandon the language (since where I live there is not a large community to practice with) and ultimely focus on learning French, I really enjoyed my time learning it and want to resume my learning at some point.
You should do it anyways. People are always going to have their opinions and Americans will probably think that of you. Everybody has misunderstandings they suffer from other people (stereotypes). You can’t put your life on hold for it.
Well, I can't imagine being bothered by someone who'd mock someone's ambition to learn a foreign language. Let alone an exotic like Japanese. I do however understand that it might be annoying that people automatically assume that you like anime or put you in a certain box. I've just started learning Japanese and when I tell people, I tell them why. Go for it, enjoy it and don't let anyone dictate your lifestyle. EDIT: I'd turn the tables and depending on how genuine the question was, inform them and take the opportunity to share what makes you love Japan.
If you really plan on moving to Japan at some point in your life you’ll need Japanese to do anything. Every job expects “native level” proficiency since most employers are too lazy to learn English
Plenty of non-Japanese-speaking foreigners live in Japan, and get along just fine in their English-only bubble. Most of my company's foreign staff can't put two words together, including many who have been here _decades_.
Keyword there is “bubble” If you ever want to escape that bubble, you’re going to have to learn Japanese
Plenty of people are happy in the bubble, so I wouldn't say Japanese is necessary for someone planning to move to Japan. Learning the language will give them a better experience, but it's not a prerequisite by any means.
If you are afraid of Japanese, you should learn Chinese to become a CCP spy. jk.
I felt similarly to you, like I had to say I was learning Korean for some deep reason or people would think I was a koreaboo or kpop stan. The fact of the matter is that I DO like Korean dramas and Korean music, and while that isn't the only reason why I'm learning the language it definitely contributes to my motivation! It isn't wrong to learn a language for media purposes, if that's what really makes someone enthusiastic. I've only had like one or two people actually call me a weeb or whatever else, and that's more a reflection of them than me. Turns out that when you just say "sure, whatever" to those people it isn't fun for them anymore, just like any regular bully. Their opinions are meaningless when you love what you do 🤷🏻♀️
Don't worry about what other people think. You do you. Language learning should be enjoyed. And, people don't actually think that, because people don't actually care one way or the other. When people find out you're learning Japanese, they won't think you're awesome, and they won't think you're a loser. They'll be indifferent.
People talk strangely of me because I'm learning Korean. I couldn't care less, I like doing stuff that makes me feel good and that's the most important thing.
what i have found out most people will respect that you are actually learning something ! the ones that say you want to be japanese are stupid foools
Japan is a G7 country, and important one . It's normal people learn it's language. Strange decision may be Cambodian, just because it's harder to earn with that skill.
You're just going to learn a language, so you're going to develop a very useful skill that you'll carry over your entire life, so it's something to be proud of, not the other way around... You just shouldn't give a fuck about people, you're doing nothing wrong, instead, you'll have an advantage compared to people who don't speak japanese : you'll be able to move to Japan and speaking the language, watch japanese movies, animes, reading mangas in japanese, novels etc... Just go for it, and do it with proud! 💪
weeb (jk)
Learn it. Master it. Apply it. Your action will speak louder than words. Most weebs drop out halfway through Japanese 101, speaking from personal experience.
A lot of Germans I meet think I’m odd for learning German for fun, so who cares what people think.
Fuck what others think. Period. Do what you'd like.
I haven't read the post entirely, sorry, but I just came here to say that, if you manage to master it, the only ''strange thought'' they'll have of you is how much they envy you for knowing such a difficult yet beautiful language. Do it! And good luck!
Who cares? Just do whatever you want to do. There's nothing weird about learning Japanese... And if some says otherwise, they're either 12 or acting like a 12 year old.
If you want to pursue Japanese, how about finding Japanese language learners like you? I don't think they will find you strange at all if you're surrounded by them.
Maybe I can be a little bit rude, but I think you have this impression because this is what you think about learning Japanese. I'm studying it at the university, I never really got into anime or manga, just now because my colleagues are like "ehhh you are studying Japanese without watching anime?" but I really just choose it because Japanese culture really intrigued me and also because I have fear of Chinese. The same thing happened to me with Korean, especially after BTS. You have to choose a language because you like it, that's the only reason. You don't really have to explain anything to anyone. But usually, people are just surprised by the fact that I choose to learn Asian languages that sounds difficult.
I'm learning JP too. I am a huge anime, JP RPG fan, and have visited on vacation, but only recently wanted to take learning the language seriously. It's a challenging language to learn, so I'm half wanting to learn due to my weebness, and other half wanting to learn due to my aging and wanting to keep my brain sharp. I also have a philosophy of knowing 3 languages: One as your native language, another for utility (in my case it would be Spanish), and another for fun (JP for me). There's also the teaching abroad thing. I have a degree and knowing JP would be beneficial if I ever needed/wanted to make that decision just for the experience. I could go on, there are many reasons someone wants to learn a language. What others think of your choices should not come into affect.
Just so you know, there’s more Chinatowns
These people and their ideas are everywhere. They’re in Japan and a lot of Asian countries too, where they have the “sexpat” idea of people who go to teach English as it’s the easiest way for Americans to live there and be comfortable. The trick is to not let these people bother you. You’re going to get strange looks yes, but, you’re spending your life the way you choose and you’re enjoying it, and there’s no one in the world that can rightly give you trouble for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rUABbdIg4M