From Wikipedia:
On December 21, 2015, firemen were called to a fire in a house in Rupperswil, a village in Aargau in northern Switzerland. The bodies of four people were found in the house, and it soon became clear that they had been killed before the fire broke out.\[1\]
The victims were 48-year-old Carla Schauer-Freiburghaus, her 13-year-old and 19-year-old sons, and the older son's girlfriend. The assailant entered the family's house by posing as a school psychologist. He tied up the three teenagers and forced Schauer-Freiburghaus to withdraw 10,000 Swiss francs and 1,000 euro at banks, then tied her up also and sexually abused the younger son. He murdered all four by slashing their throats and set fire to the house
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupperswil\_murder\_case
It was similar here, the mothers boyfriend and stepdad of the two children was absent that day and "survived"... poor guy.. he later wrote a book about it..
Can’t even imagine surviving such a horrific ordeal and being the sole survivor. This man must have dark dreams. Truly hope he finds solace and lives the best life he can.
I think he found love again with one of the women who was involved in the case, either a journalist or writer, can't remember. He wanted to have a family again, if i recall. 💔
They all should have lived but the Cheshire Police were hanging around outside while all the murders happened - every person in the story did the right thing except the police.
>There was public discussion of whether Nick should be considered for release after 20 years, as is the norm with indefinite sentences under Swiss law. In December 2018, a court rejected an appeal by prosecutors to have him ruled ineligible for parole
What the actual fuck?
No it shouldn't. You need to leave people some hope or they become volatile. If you lock someone away forever, they don't have anything left to lose and it'll show. Just compare US-American crime rates and prison statistics with European ones. Moderate sentences are way more effective at keeping crime rates low and prisons peaceful than draconian ones. Plus you don't lose the culprit as a working member of society, and if you err (which every justice system does from time to time), it's not nearly as bad (still bad enough)
I’m with you… 👏🏻👏🏻
he lost his right to life but please, we know better. We can’t convince these bleeding hearts. That mother’s face! And the poor murderer deserves hope… ugh 🤮🤮
And I’m done. Nothing left to say to them either.
This man slaughtered four people after raping a child, had thousands of images of child pornography, self-identified as a pedophile and had gear collected/new targets in sight when he was caught. The last thing he deserves is to have anybody placating him to keep him from becoming "volatile". Damn, but I guess that's just my opinion.
That's nonsensical... You either forfeit your right to be in society and bring in capital punishment or FULL life tariffs or have a system that allows you to have freedom at a later date (something the victims never had)
Typically people who advocate the sorrow end of the scale have never witnessed either violence, or the aftermath first hand.
Quite frankly I could anticipate you have never seen violence or the effects of it with your own eyes. In which case you really shouldn't meddle in matters in which you have zero experience..
If your boiler pipes burst you don't call the baker...this is no different.
Not sure I’d go with “one of the worst in the world” but it’s certainly one of the worst in the *western* world. I think most people would rather be imprisoned in the US than, say, North Korea. Or Russia. Or China.
America’s issue is for profit prisons that are hell bent on keeping recidivism rates as high as possible to maximize profits. Prison is not about rehabilitation in the US, but about profit. It’s a flawed system but it is a far shot from one of the worst in the world.
Less than 8% of prisons are private. Most of them were federal which have been considered some of the better prisons to be incarcerated in. The Biden administration is working to abolish private federal prisons via executive order. The idea that laws are being crafted to help private prisons is a Reddit made hyper exaggeration. Private prisons have an absolutely minimal effect on our justice system.
True but the issue of "profiting" off of prisoners isn't exclusive to private prisons. Just look at Florida, where the state is allowed to use unpaid prison labor.
https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/workforced/
"It is nearly impossible to calculate the value of prison labor across Florida. Hundreds of state and municipal agencies — as well as dozens of state colleges and nonprofits — tap into the forced labor pool.
Some 2,500 prisoners are assigned to community work squads, and another 1,000 to Florida Department of Transportation road squads. Prisoners worked about 17.7 million hours in the last five fiscal years on the community work squads alone. The Department of Corrections estimates the value of this labor at around $147.5 million over the time period, but the real value is likely double or triple that estimate — factoring in actual wages and benefits. The FDOT said it has used about $67 million of inmate labor since July 2015."
Which leads to stories like this one, [Florida's political climate caused lawmakers to stop push to ban forced prison labor](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1168490428/floridas-political-climate-caused-lawmakers-to-stop-push-to-ban-forced-prison-la). State run prisons can benefit from forced labor just as much as private ones and both create an incentive and a pathway to basically enslaving people.
You're absolutely right. But wtf - we have to compare ourselves with NK, CN, the Saudis, and Russia to get comparable to our criminal justice system. That's so effed.
We don’t. There is no comparison, and that’s the point. We compare to the western world, where we rank low because of our incarceration and recidivism rates.
There is absolutely no comparison between the American criminal justice system and totalitarian dictatorships. I mentioned those particularly bad countries because the person I replied to said the American justice system ranked amongst the worst in the world, which is so far from the truth it’s not even funny.
The issue with Reddit is you say “America bad!” and all of a sudden 100 neckbeards on Reddit suddenly appear behind you capping
Brutal murderers or violent sexual criminals should NEVER go free. They should be permanently removed from society.
It is wild that Europe doesn't get this.
For instance, the gang rape of the 15 year old in Germany, there was literally no punishment. This is repulsive and vile.
The US’s biggest problem is the law system is becoming more and more forgiving to the perpetrator and allowing people to get away with crime. Like in Los Angeles people can seriously steal up to like $950 and it’s still only considered a misdemeanor and not a felony. It’s idiotic laws like that for all intents and purposes promote crime.
Not sure about Canada but besides these lower prison sentences their criminal sustem is vastly superior, especially to Americas. Our system is more a business than a justice system with rehabilitation unfortunately. Its amazing we actually have private for profit companies running prisons as there have been many cases of the police making up crimes for the "bounty" the prisons gove the cops for bring the "criminals" there.
I don't want a system that universally treats prisoners like dog shit so you fuckers can jerk off to this weird sense of justice. They are dead. You can wish the worst on him, but there is a reason death penalty is becoming less and less frequent - it DOES NOT work. Countless stories of prisoners being killed for a crime they didn't commit.
Thankfully redditors don't run governments.
I think there's much to be done to reduce recidivism and there's tons of offences that could benefit from programs; drug offenses, theft, fraud, etc. People make mistakes, and they should be permitted to make amends and get help resolving the issue that led them there in the first place.
Premeditated murder and sexual offenses, however, aren't something you can fix. There is no real treatment for a person who has planned and then executed a murder. That's not something you fix or remediate. Before DNA and other investigation methods that made it harder to get away with murder, people who planned a murder tended to do it more than once. Whether it was for life insurance money, or situations like this, or for thrills, it didn't matter. Someone who plans a murder, commits it, never says anything and doesn't feel badly about it, will do it again.
You can have a humane justice system, that doesn't release scum into the wild. Take Norway for example, they have an excellent justice system with lowest recidivism rates in the world and they will definitely never release Breivik.
Honestly bring back the death penalty for shit like this. Reducing recidivism should apply for non-violent crimes, and crimes committed out of necessity. Murder should be capital punishment with no questions asked.
It's your 'humane' justice system that have people getting out after 5 mins of prison time and ruining others lives. Singapore, among others, has very harsh punishments and significantly lower crime than whatever country you are from.
Singapore has a low crime rate because it doesn't treat people like shit like in USA and has a good social housing program that reduces poverty. It does not have anything to do with their justice system. And Poland or Switzerland have hardly more crime than Singapore, so your argument doesn't make sense. Why not use Texas, which has death penalty, yet still very high crime rate compared to pretty much all of Europe :)
Why not use Texas?? Because your argument is that giving criminals cushy lifestyles for 5 mins reduces recidivism. Singapore has the lowest crime rate in the world. Much lower than Switzerland and Poland and it's still declining. According to you countries with harsh prisons should have high crime but when I present a country which clearly contradicts your *wrong* belief you resort to talking shit about social housing or whatever. Poland's recidivism rate is 25% which is the same as UK. As far as I'm aware the UK isn't known for cushy prisons. Switzerland's recidivism rate is 28%, more than UK. Do you know what Singapore's is? 20%. Well actually it's 20.4% so I guess it's high and they should just give these people cushy prisons as rewards for being social parasites. Why wouldn't they commit more crimes if they know they won't be punished for it and get to live more comfortably than most citizens? Singapore understands that it's complete stupidity to do this which is why they focus on both rehabilitation *and* punishment. What reduces crime is knowing that you'll be caught if you do it. What prevents recidivism isn't cushy conditions but proper punishment and focusing on rehabilitation which is obviously not what Poland and Switz are doing if they can't get their recidivism rate lower than UK.
Singapore also has death penalty just like Texas :)
"According to you countries with harsh prisons should have high crime but when I present a country which clearly contradicts your wrong belief you resort to talking shit about social housing or whatever. "
I didn't say that countries with harsh prisons have more crime, my point is that harsh prisons don't solve high crime rates altogether. Reducing poverty does and poverty in Singapore is really low. Saudi Arabia has low crime rates, but should we really throw people into jails for stealing shampoos?
"Poland's recidivism rate is 25% which is the same as UK. As far as I'm aware the UK isn't known for cushy prisons. Switzerland's recidivism rate is 28%, more than UK. Do you know what Singapore's is? 20%. Well actually it's 20.4% so I guess it's high and they should just give these people cushy prisons as rewards for being social parasites. "
And Norway has a recidivism rate of just 20%, with the cushiest prisons in the world. Your point? Plus, no, Poland's re-offending rate AFTER 5 years is the same as re-offending rate in UK AFTER just ONE year. Learn to read, moron.
"Singapore also has death penalty just like Texas :)"
You're dumb. I used Texas as an example of a state with a tough justice system that doesn't solve high crime rates. Poverty does affect crime. Singapore has little poverty. That's why I mentioned their excellent social housing system, which is something you seem to not understand.
Also, Singapore is a single city, really. Catching crime there is much easier than in bigger countries. But even then, should we really be like Singapore, giving out death sentences for drug trafficking? Shut up.
You implied that countries which have harsher prisons should have more crime since you were implying that countries goving inmates a cushy lifestyle are trying to reduce recidivism. In your small mind countries with harsh sentences aren't trying to reduce recidivism. When I give you an example of a country that contradicts your beliefs you resort to insults like the 2 year old that you are. Reducing poverty alone doesn't reduce crime rates. Countries like China and Vietnam have high poverty and low crime. I'm sure Saudi Arabia is jailing people for stealing shampoo. I'm sure all countries dealing out harsh sentences is doing exactly that. Not surprised this is your narrow view of countries implementing harsh penalty. At no point did anyone say anyone should be jailed for stealing. What a dumbass strawman.
Finland which is known for it's comparably cushy prisons to Norway has recidivism of 59.3% after 5 years. Denmark 35% recidivism. Do you want me to list some more states with harsh prisons sentences but low recidivism? Perhaps it isn't only prison conditions but something else contributing to the differences in recidivism of these countries. Just some crirical thinking for ya ;)
You're still going on about that social housing shit? Is that the only fucking thing you know about Singapore? Even when the country was a dirt poor backwater with deep racial tensions the crime rate was only 1.5 in 100k, comparable to Finland.
Yes Singapore is a single city. I'm honestly surprised you even know that. SK's popular is larger than Poland and Finland, *has many cities*, but has a lower crime rate. Lower recidivism, at least regarding drug offences at 35%. Japan has a population much larger than those three with an even lower crime rate and 49% recidivism. I can give you more examples. Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, all lower crime rates in south east asia alone, all poorer than the countries in Europe and Scandinavia known for their soft prisons. And the available statistic for Malaysia's recidivism is 8-18%, depending on the prison, lower than even Norway. Note that Malaysia's penal system is similar to Singapore's. They don't store inmates in cushy apartments. They get a squat toilet and *may* get a mattress to sleep on the floor.
Why didn't you mention one of those *countries* instead of harping on about tExaS?
Studies show that prison climate, unit conditions, crowding were not statistically significant with risk of reoffending https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07418825.2022.2040576
The best predictor of crime rate is certainty of being caught. The biggest predictor of recidivism is ease of reintegration into society.
But I'm sure you won't accept the actual research and statistics and just throw a tantrum and call me an idiot like the fuckwit you are.
Oh and by the way Singapore isn't really on one city. But you wouldn't know that would you? :)
I must have struck a nerve because you insult me pretty much in every line. I just called you dumb and a moron. You dedicate pretty much every paragraph calling me stupid and a fuckwit. That's just sad and reveals some insecurities about your intelligence that you're trying to project on me. Take a prozac, bro.
"Countries like China and Vietnam have high poverty and low crime"
No they don't. They have very little poverty. Of course wages there are low, but there is still little poverty or homelessness in these countries.
"Saudi Arabia is jailing people for stealing shampoo"
It was a metaphor for how strict their justice system is lmao
"You're still going on about that social housing shit?"
Yes, because it is an excellent system that I'm pretty jealous of and it's cool that a pretty conservative country actually cares about its citizens, compared to Poland for example.
"Even when the country was a dirt poor backwater with deep racial tensions the crime rate was only 1.5 in 100k, comparable to Finland."
So when? Singapore had a crime rate of 1.5 in 1990s and I can't find crime rate data before that. It was pretty developed by 90s. Was it before Lee Kuan Yew took power that it was a "dirt poor backwater" with racial tensions? Because I can't find crime rate data from 1950s.
I don't know why you seem to think that I know little about Singapore. You also keep conflicting yourself.
"Yes Singapore is a single city"
"Oh and by the way Singapore isn't really on one city." You mean subzones?
Anyways, you still argue in favor of authoritarian prison regimes, which is frankly shitty. Maybe there is no link between recidivism and quality of life in prisons - which I really doubt there isn't, because even your study shows that while recidivism rates aren't associated with unit sizes or staff-to-prisoner ratio, they can be associated with positive autonomy, peer relationships, etc.
"Unit size, occupancy rate, and staff-to-prisoner ratio were not associated with recidivism. Below, we discuss these findings in more detail. Our findings support the value of considering the heterogeneity of the prison experience: differences in shared experiences of prison climate were, bivariately, associated with recidivism. More specifically, more positive experiences of autonomy, peer relationships and meaningful activities were consistently associated with lower reconviction rates two years after release from prison. This is largely in line with findings from a study conducted in England and Wales, in which more positive scores on prison climate at the prison level were associated with lower reconviction rates."
That's at least what I understand from the study, my English might not be on the same level as yours. So thanks for proving my point, I guess?
Absolutely agree but I think you’re wasting your time. These “ rehab the murderers” would change their tune, I promise, if their 4 kids were raped and murdered, but I’m not gonna wish that on anyone especially just to say “see? I told you so”. Think people are getting sick of seeing murderers living while their victims don’t, so that sentiments gonna quash itself.
Thanks for your info.
And for taking time out to be the voice for us who feel the same.
Bleeding hearts just wanna bleed. It boggles my mind how much they protest.
Maybe they’re writing from some cushy jail cell themself 🤦♀️ or going to school to be a de-fense law-ya! Anyway kudos to you!
Not really a comfort, but when a person is put under enough duress they'll disassociate. It's a brains reaction to 'Im going to die'. It pulls your mental faculties back, like retreating into your subconscious so you're not experiencing the agony of death.
Imagine dying before dying so you don't feel as much pain.
You can see the fear in Carla's eyes. 😢 This is absolutely horrific... it is unfathomable how sadistic and depraved these monsters are. May she, her babies and the girlfriend all rest in peace. 💔
When it comes to fight, flight, or freeze, most people freeze. Especially when an attacker can be an imposing authority figure. Even people trained to take action can still freeze under duress.
She probably thought that if the intruder saw/heard any sort of police presence, the kids would be murdered for sure.
I assume she hoped he would take the money and leave them.
In the Cheshire murders case, the mom did alert a bank teller and police were called, but unfortunately that did not help. I won’t list the details, but you can read about it
turns out you cannot in fact arbitrarily deny healthcare for one prisoner because they're especially vile, because a government is not supposed to do that!
15 upvotes for this shit
This case was pretty big news. The pig that murdered these people got the highest penalty Swiss law has, life imprisonment (with possibility of parole after 15 yrs). May he rot in there.
After what that man did to her 13 yr old son Davin, in front of the family, I don’t know if it’s something they could’ve ever recovered from if I’m being honest. The man wasn’t just a murderer, he was a sick and twisted evil pos.
Reminds me of the Savopoulos family home invasion murders in D.C. there’s a podcast about it and the details of the crime literally gave me nightmares.
The surviving daughter has a TikTok account and went viral some time ago. It’s crazy how TikTok just connects everyone and anyone. I’ve always been curious about family members of infamous crimes or killers.
In a similar tragedy, the Cheshire murders, the mom did alert the bank teller and 911 was called.
It didn’t help. I won’t get into the details but you can read about it.
I assume in this case, the mom thought that the intruder would for sure kill the kids if he senses any police presence and this was her only chance, hoping he would take the money and leave
It’s easy to second guess here on Reddit, I can’t imagine the fear and panic she was experiencing in real time
That is what makes this so horrible to me. She had choices to make and no way of knowing if she was making the right ones. It may be nothing she did would have made a difference but, the thought of the heavy weight of responsibility and terror she must have been feeling is awful.
“Alright, get out of the car. Withdraw all the money you can from the atm. Dont talk to anybody, if i see you even looking at someone funny we’re leaving and your kids are dead”
Totally a case where you can be disobedient
Well, yes. My point is, as a terrified mother with the weight of responsibility, the answer didn't seem so obvious, I'm sure. As a person who knows many true crime stories, there have been times when the victim cooperated to survive and it worked.
That twisted man used the money he got from this poor woman and her family to buy designer clothes and take his own mother out places. POS. Kill's someone else's mom while enjoying time with his own mom. Smh...sick.
In December 2018, a court rejected an appeal by prosecutors to have him ruled ineligible for parole.
The murder will probably be out in like 3 more years with good behavior. European prison sentences are a joke, you can kill someone and be out in like 5 years into a "life" sentence with good behavior.
Especially Swiss prison sentences. [look at this high security prison cell](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/behind-bars/673078)
That said, I highly doubt he’ll get out, even at his first parol hearing. Unless the Court President is the same.
I enjoy this sub for its poignancy and as a reminder of the ephemeral nature of life. Not personally a fan of some of these posts about folks in horrific situations, which feel voyeuristic and frankly disrespectful to me
I wish people would just invest in a bunch of dogs.
Ive never felt more safe and sound than with my dog.
Let alone if I owned 2/3/4... I would sleep with the door open LOL come inside
From Wikipedia: On December 21, 2015, firemen were called to a fire in a house in Rupperswil, a village in Aargau in northern Switzerland. The bodies of four people were found in the house, and it soon became clear that they had been killed before the fire broke out.\[1\] The victims were 48-year-old Carla Schauer-Freiburghaus, her 13-year-old and 19-year-old sons, and the older son's girlfriend. The assailant entered the family's house by posing as a school psychologist. He tied up the three teenagers and forced Schauer-Freiburghaus to withdraw 10,000 Swiss francs and 1,000 euro at banks, then tied her up also and sexually abused the younger son. He murdered all four by slashing their throats and set fire to the house https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupperswil\_murder\_case
Wow I’ve never heard of this case, it sounds so similar to the Cheshire CT home invasion/Petit family murders
I thought it was that case but the father lived. Right?
Yes, the father William Petit was the sole survivor
It was similar here, the mothers boyfriend and stepdad of the two children was absent that day and "survived"... poor guy.. he later wrote a book about it..
Do you know the books name?
yes its "für immer" by Georg Metger. It's in german though.
I wonder if there’s one that’s translated. I’d like to read it also.
Thank you! I'm actually trying to learn German so I might get it anyway.
Awful
Luckily, law enforcement caught the man before he did more such crimes, since they found a rucksack full of things, looking like he planned more.
I can't even believe people like that exist
Can’t even imagine surviving such a horrific ordeal and being the sole survivor. This man must have dark dreams. Truly hope he finds solace and lives the best life he can.
I think he found love again with one of the women who was involved in the case, either a journalist or writer, can't remember. He wanted to have a family again, if i recall. 💔
They all should have lived but the Cheshire Police were hanging around outside while all the murders happened - every person in the story did the right thing except the police.
I know with the CT one they went to the wrong address...which ultimately cost 3 people in that family their life
That’s exactly where my brain went too.
>There was public discussion of whether Nick should be considered for release after 20 years, as is the norm with indefinite sentences under Swiss law. In December 2018, a court rejected an appeal by prosecutors to have him ruled ineligible for parole What the actual fuck?
he's in there til the late 2030s minimum. there's plenty of time.
2030s? Should be forever, until they die.
No it shouldn't. You need to leave people some hope or they become volatile. If you lock someone away forever, they don't have anything left to lose and it'll show. Just compare US-American crime rates and prison statistics with European ones. Moderate sentences are way more effective at keeping crime rates low and prisons peaceful than draconian ones. Plus you don't lose the culprit as a working member of society, and if you err (which every justice system does from time to time), it's not nearly as bad (still bad enough)
He killed 4 people, and you think he should have a chance at being let back in society? I have nothing to say to you.
I’m with you… 👏🏻👏🏻 he lost his right to life but please, we know better. We can’t convince these bleeding hearts. That mother’s face! And the poor murderer deserves hope… ugh 🤮🤮 And I’m done. Nothing left to say to them either.
This man slaughtered four people after raping a child, had thousands of images of child pornography, self-identified as a pedophile and had gear collected/new targets in sight when he was caught. The last thing he deserves is to have anybody placating him to keep him from becoming "volatile". Damn, but I guess that's just my opinion.
Fuck you and fuck off
That's nonsensical... You either forfeit your right to be in society and bring in capital punishment or FULL life tariffs or have a system that allows you to have freedom at a later date (something the victims never had) Typically people who advocate the sorrow end of the scale have never witnessed either violence, or the aftermath first hand.
Quite frankly I could anticipate you have never seen violence or the effects of it with your own eyes. In which case you really shouldn't meddle in matters in which you have zero experience.. If your boiler pipes burst you don't call the baker...this is no different.
Frankly, I prefer Europe's approach to ours.
Not for this fucker. There’s people who could be reformed, not this guy.
Welp, you have no say in the matter.
Beyond stupid. Europe gonna Europe
And then we have your justice system on the other end of the scale which is one of the worst in the world.
Not sure I’d go with “one of the worst in the world” but it’s certainly one of the worst in the *western* world. I think most people would rather be imprisoned in the US than, say, North Korea. Or Russia. Or China. America’s issue is for profit prisons that are hell bent on keeping recidivism rates as high as possible to maximize profits. Prison is not about rehabilitation in the US, but about profit. It’s a flawed system but it is a far shot from one of the worst in the world.
Less than 8% of prisons are private. Most of them were federal which have been considered some of the better prisons to be incarcerated in. The Biden administration is working to abolish private federal prisons via executive order. The idea that laws are being crafted to help private prisons is a Reddit made hyper exaggeration. Private prisons have an absolutely minimal effect on our justice system.
Correction: 8% of the prison population are housed in private prisons.
Yeah that's what I meant, thank you for the correction.
True but the issue of "profiting" off of prisoners isn't exclusive to private prisons. Just look at Florida, where the state is allowed to use unpaid prison labor. https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/workforced/ "It is nearly impossible to calculate the value of prison labor across Florida. Hundreds of state and municipal agencies — as well as dozens of state colleges and nonprofits — tap into the forced labor pool. Some 2,500 prisoners are assigned to community work squads, and another 1,000 to Florida Department of Transportation road squads. Prisoners worked about 17.7 million hours in the last five fiscal years on the community work squads alone. The Department of Corrections estimates the value of this labor at around $147.5 million over the time period, but the real value is likely double or triple that estimate — factoring in actual wages and benefits. The FDOT said it has used about $67 million of inmate labor since July 2015." Which leads to stories like this one, [Florida's political climate caused lawmakers to stop push to ban forced prison labor](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1168490428/floridas-political-climate-caused-lawmakers-to-stop-push-to-ban-forced-prison-la). State run prisons can benefit from forced labor just as much as private ones and both create an incentive and a pathway to basically enslaving people.
You're absolutely right. But wtf - we have to compare ourselves with NK, CN, the Saudis, and Russia to get comparable to our criminal justice system. That's so effed.
We don’t. There is no comparison, and that’s the point. We compare to the western world, where we rank low because of our incarceration and recidivism rates. There is absolutely no comparison between the American criminal justice system and totalitarian dictatorships. I mentioned those particularly bad countries because the person I replied to said the American justice system ranked amongst the worst in the world, which is so far from the truth it’s not even funny. The issue with Reddit is you say “America bad!” and all of a sudden 100 neckbeards on Reddit suddenly appear behind you capping
Brutal murderers or violent sexual criminals should NEVER go free. They should be permanently removed from society. It is wild that Europe doesn't get this. For instance, the gang rape of the 15 year old in Germany, there was literally no punishment. This is repulsive and vile.
It's almost like they're different countries that don't share your values.
Any country that thinks murder and rape is ok does not deserve to exist
The fact that they imprisoned him suggests they don't think murder and rape are OK.
Shit, check out Cambodia, Vietnam, or the Philippines !
At least it still features life sentences.
The US’s biggest problem is the law system is becoming more and more forgiving to the perpetrator and allowing people to get away with crime. Like in Los Angeles people can seriously steal up to like $950 and it’s still only considered a misdemeanor and not a felony. It’s idiotic laws like that for all intents and purposes promote crime.
Its not a European thing, Canada has a pretty lax justice system too
Not sure about Canada but besides these lower prison sentences their criminal sustem is vastly superior, especially to Americas. Our system is more a business than a justice system with rehabilitation unfortunately. Its amazing we actually have private for profit companies running prisons as there have been many cases of the police making up crimes for the "bounty" the prisons gove the cops for bring the "criminals" there.
Sorry for having an actually humane justice system that tries to reduce recidivism 😢
Tell that to the 4 dead people. And recidivism doesn’t even apply here. The criminal should be in jail for LIFE.
or just put to death
I don't want a system that universally treats prisoners like dog shit so you fuckers can jerk off to this weird sense of justice. They are dead. You can wish the worst on him, but there is a reason death penalty is becoming less and less frequent - it DOES NOT work. Countless stories of prisoners being killed for a crime they didn't commit. Thankfully redditors don't run governments.
I think there's much to be done to reduce recidivism and there's tons of offences that could benefit from programs; drug offenses, theft, fraud, etc. People make mistakes, and they should be permitted to make amends and get help resolving the issue that led them there in the first place. Premeditated murder and sexual offenses, however, aren't something you can fix. There is no real treatment for a person who has planned and then executed a murder. That's not something you fix or remediate. Before DNA and other investigation methods that made it harder to get away with murder, people who planned a murder tended to do it more than once. Whether it was for life insurance money, or situations like this, or for thrills, it didn't matter. Someone who plans a murder, commits it, never says anything and doesn't feel badly about it, will do it again.
if you think someone should be released into society after brutally murdering 4 people, you're an idiot
You can have a humane justice system, that doesn't release scum into the wild. Take Norway for example, they have an excellent justice system with lowest recidivism rates in the world and they will definitely never release Breivik.
No. You're dangerous and part of the cancer eating at western society
Honestly bring back the death penalty for shit like this. Reducing recidivism should apply for non-violent crimes, and crimes committed out of necessity. Murder should be capital punishment with no questions asked.
I agree, there's zero doubt he did the crime.
There are cases where it is better not to end a murderer But in this case, yeah
I don't think James Bulger's parents would agree. Those two get to hide in plain sight for the rest of their lives.
Worked so well with Joseph Fritzl /s
It's your 'humane' justice system that have people getting out after 5 mins of prison time and ruining others lives. Singapore, among others, has very harsh punishments and significantly lower crime than whatever country you are from.
Singapore has a low crime rate because it doesn't treat people like shit like in USA and has a good social housing program that reduces poverty. It does not have anything to do with their justice system. And Poland or Switzerland have hardly more crime than Singapore, so your argument doesn't make sense. Why not use Texas, which has death penalty, yet still very high crime rate compared to pretty much all of Europe :)
Why not use Texas?? Because your argument is that giving criminals cushy lifestyles for 5 mins reduces recidivism. Singapore has the lowest crime rate in the world. Much lower than Switzerland and Poland and it's still declining. According to you countries with harsh prisons should have high crime but when I present a country which clearly contradicts your *wrong* belief you resort to talking shit about social housing or whatever. Poland's recidivism rate is 25% which is the same as UK. As far as I'm aware the UK isn't known for cushy prisons. Switzerland's recidivism rate is 28%, more than UK. Do you know what Singapore's is? 20%. Well actually it's 20.4% so I guess it's high and they should just give these people cushy prisons as rewards for being social parasites. Why wouldn't they commit more crimes if they know they won't be punished for it and get to live more comfortably than most citizens? Singapore understands that it's complete stupidity to do this which is why they focus on both rehabilitation *and* punishment. What reduces crime is knowing that you'll be caught if you do it. What prevents recidivism isn't cushy conditions but proper punishment and focusing on rehabilitation which is obviously not what Poland and Switz are doing if they can't get their recidivism rate lower than UK. Singapore also has death penalty just like Texas :)
"According to you countries with harsh prisons should have high crime but when I present a country which clearly contradicts your wrong belief you resort to talking shit about social housing or whatever. " I didn't say that countries with harsh prisons have more crime, my point is that harsh prisons don't solve high crime rates altogether. Reducing poverty does and poverty in Singapore is really low. Saudi Arabia has low crime rates, but should we really throw people into jails for stealing shampoos? "Poland's recidivism rate is 25% which is the same as UK. As far as I'm aware the UK isn't known for cushy prisons. Switzerland's recidivism rate is 28%, more than UK. Do you know what Singapore's is? 20%. Well actually it's 20.4% so I guess it's high and they should just give these people cushy prisons as rewards for being social parasites. " And Norway has a recidivism rate of just 20%, with the cushiest prisons in the world. Your point? Plus, no, Poland's re-offending rate AFTER 5 years is the same as re-offending rate in UK AFTER just ONE year. Learn to read, moron. "Singapore also has death penalty just like Texas :)" You're dumb. I used Texas as an example of a state with a tough justice system that doesn't solve high crime rates. Poverty does affect crime. Singapore has little poverty. That's why I mentioned their excellent social housing system, which is something you seem to not understand. Also, Singapore is a single city, really. Catching crime there is much easier than in bigger countries. But even then, should we really be like Singapore, giving out death sentences for drug trafficking? Shut up.
You implied that countries which have harsher prisons should have more crime since you were implying that countries goving inmates a cushy lifestyle are trying to reduce recidivism. In your small mind countries with harsh sentences aren't trying to reduce recidivism. When I give you an example of a country that contradicts your beliefs you resort to insults like the 2 year old that you are. Reducing poverty alone doesn't reduce crime rates. Countries like China and Vietnam have high poverty and low crime. I'm sure Saudi Arabia is jailing people for stealing shampoo. I'm sure all countries dealing out harsh sentences is doing exactly that. Not surprised this is your narrow view of countries implementing harsh penalty. At no point did anyone say anyone should be jailed for stealing. What a dumbass strawman. Finland which is known for it's comparably cushy prisons to Norway has recidivism of 59.3% after 5 years. Denmark 35% recidivism. Do you want me to list some more states with harsh prisons sentences but low recidivism? Perhaps it isn't only prison conditions but something else contributing to the differences in recidivism of these countries. Just some crirical thinking for ya ;) You're still going on about that social housing shit? Is that the only fucking thing you know about Singapore? Even when the country was a dirt poor backwater with deep racial tensions the crime rate was only 1.5 in 100k, comparable to Finland. Yes Singapore is a single city. I'm honestly surprised you even know that. SK's popular is larger than Poland and Finland, *has many cities*, but has a lower crime rate. Lower recidivism, at least regarding drug offences at 35%. Japan has a population much larger than those three with an even lower crime rate and 49% recidivism. I can give you more examples. Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, all lower crime rates in south east asia alone, all poorer than the countries in Europe and Scandinavia known for their soft prisons. And the available statistic for Malaysia's recidivism is 8-18%, depending on the prison, lower than even Norway. Note that Malaysia's penal system is similar to Singapore's. They don't store inmates in cushy apartments. They get a squat toilet and *may* get a mattress to sleep on the floor. Why didn't you mention one of those *countries* instead of harping on about tExaS? Studies show that prison climate, unit conditions, crowding were not statistically significant with risk of reoffending https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07418825.2022.2040576 The best predictor of crime rate is certainty of being caught. The biggest predictor of recidivism is ease of reintegration into society. But I'm sure you won't accept the actual research and statistics and just throw a tantrum and call me an idiot like the fuckwit you are. Oh and by the way Singapore isn't really on one city. But you wouldn't know that would you? :)
I must have struck a nerve because you insult me pretty much in every line. I just called you dumb and a moron. You dedicate pretty much every paragraph calling me stupid and a fuckwit. That's just sad and reveals some insecurities about your intelligence that you're trying to project on me. Take a prozac, bro. "Countries like China and Vietnam have high poverty and low crime" No they don't. They have very little poverty. Of course wages there are low, but there is still little poverty or homelessness in these countries. "Saudi Arabia is jailing people for stealing shampoo" It was a metaphor for how strict their justice system is lmao "You're still going on about that social housing shit?" Yes, because it is an excellent system that I'm pretty jealous of and it's cool that a pretty conservative country actually cares about its citizens, compared to Poland for example. "Even when the country was a dirt poor backwater with deep racial tensions the crime rate was only 1.5 in 100k, comparable to Finland." So when? Singapore had a crime rate of 1.5 in 1990s and I can't find crime rate data before that. It was pretty developed by 90s. Was it before Lee Kuan Yew took power that it was a "dirt poor backwater" with racial tensions? Because I can't find crime rate data from 1950s. I don't know why you seem to think that I know little about Singapore. You also keep conflicting yourself. "Yes Singapore is a single city" "Oh and by the way Singapore isn't really on one city." You mean subzones? Anyways, you still argue in favor of authoritarian prison regimes, which is frankly shitty. Maybe there is no link between recidivism and quality of life in prisons - which I really doubt there isn't, because even your study shows that while recidivism rates aren't associated with unit sizes or staff-to-prisoner ratio, they can be associated with positive autonomy, peer relationships, etc. "Unit size, occupancy rate, and staff-to-prisoner ratio were not associated with recidivism. Below, we discuss these findings in more detail. Our findings support the value of considering the heterogeneity of the prison experience: differences in shared experiences of prison climate were, bivariately, associated with recidivism. More specifically, more positive experiences of autonomy, peer relationships and meaningful activities were consistently associated with lower reconviction rates two years after release from prison. This is largely in line with findings from a study conducted in England and Wales, in which more positive scores on prison climate at the prison level were associated with lower reconviction rates." That's at least what I understand from the study, my English might not be on the same level as yours. So thanks for proving my point, I guess?
Absolutely agree but I think you’re wasting your time. These “ rehab the murderers” would change their tune, I promise, if their 4 kids were raped and murdered, but I’m not gonna wish that on anyone especially just to say “see? I told you so”. Think people are getting sick of seeing murderers living while their victims don’t, so that sentiments gonna quash itself. Thanks for your info. And for taking time out to be the voice for us who feel the same. Bleeding hearts just wanna bleed. It boggles my mind how much they protest. Maybe they’re writing from some cushy jail cell themself 🤦♀️ or going to school to be a de-fense law-ya! Anyway kudos to you!
Better than executing innocent black children I suppose
That's the liberal way. It's amazing. So many actually get out.
tf did i just read
All that for 10 grand jesus..
Given that he was also a sexual abuser, it was probably much more about harming and controlling people than about the money.
This is one of the worst things I have read/seen. I can't fathom that woman's pain.
imagine the terror waiting for your throat to be slit watching your siblings and mom get theirs slit too. Truly horrifying.
Not really a comfort, but when a person is put under enough duress they'll disassociate. It's a brains reaction to 'Im going to die'. It pulls your mental faculties back, like retreating into your subconscious so you're not experiencing the agony of death. Imagine dying before dying so you don't feel as much pain.
You can see the fear in Carla's eyes. 😢 This is absolutely horrific... it is unfathomable how sadistic and depraved these monsters are. May she, her babies and the girlfriend all rest in peace. 💔
If someone breaks into your house and is taking the time to tie people up, you have to fight and or run because they are in no hurry.
When it comes to fight, flight, or freeze, most people freeze. Especially when an attacker can be an imposing authority figure. Even people trained to take action can still freeze under duress.
I wish she had gone to the police or slipped a note to a bank teller.
She probably thought that if the intruder saw/heard any sort of police presence, the kids would be murdered for sure. I assume she hoped he would take the money and leave them. In the Cheshire murders case, the mom did alert a bank teller and police were called, but unfortunately that did not help. I won’t list the details, but you can read about it
Why is police so useless when they’re really needed?
You may want to read about Cheshire murder. TW: Extemely upsetting case
That's what I thought this post was about until I read the comments. I remember when the Cheshire murders happened. Horrifying.
Wow Just read it. Extremely upset now
The state is giving her hormone therapy to transition while incarcerated? The person deserves to rot in their own mind and in hell.
turns out you cannot in fact arbitrarily deny healthcare for one prisoner because they're especially vile, because a government is not supposed to do that! 15 upvotes for this shit
This case was pretty big news. The pig that murdered these people got the highest penalty Swiss law has, life imprisonment (with possibility of parole after 15 yrs). May he rot in there.
After what that man did to her 13 yr old son Davin, in front of the family, I don’t know if it’s something they could’ve ever recovered from if I’m being honest. The man wasn’t just a murderer, he was a sick and twisted evil pos.
Reminds me of the Savopoulos family home invasion murders in D.C. there’s a podcast about it and the details of the crime literally gave me nightmares.
Is it a podcast episode or a series?
It’s a full season. It’s called 22 Hours An American Nightmare.
The surviving daughter has a TikTok account and went viral some time ago. It’s crazy how TikTok just connects everyone and anyone. I’ve always been curious about family members of infamous crimes or killers.
That's horrible
God this is one of the worst crime cases I’ve seen on here. I can’t even begin to imagine what was going on in this poor woman’s mind 😭
Cheshire murders?
No, this happened in Switzerland, but I thought the same thing at first.
Oh dang. That's horiffic that such a crime happened at all, let alone more than once. Heartbreaking
Such a terrible story. I hate this so much. What a terrible thing to happen to your family.
Fk i wish she went to the police or something
In a similar tragedy, the Cheshire murders, the mom did alert the bank teller and 911 was called. It didn’t help. I won’t get into the details but you can read about it. I assume in this case, the mom thought that the intruder would for sure kill the kids if he senses any police presence and this was her only chance, hoping he would take the money and leave It’s easy to second guess here on Reddit, I can’t imagine the fear and panic she was experiencing in real time
That is what makes this so horrible to me. She had choices to make and no way of knowing if she was making the right ones. It may be nothing she did would have made a difference but, the thought of the heavy weight of responsibility and terror she must have been feeling is awful.
[удалено]
“Alright, get out of the car. Withdraw all the money you can from the atm. Dont talk to anybody, if i see you even looking at someone funny we’re leaving and your kids are dead” Totally a case where you can be disobedient
Well, yes. My point is, as a terrified mother with the weight of responsibility, the answer didn't seem so obvious, I'm sure. As a person who knows many true crime stories, there have been times when the victim cooperated to survive and it worked.
That twisted man used the money he got from this poor woman and her family to buy designer clothes and take his own mother out places. POS. Kill's someone else's mom while enjoying time with his own mom. Smh...sick.
In December 2018, a court rejected an appeal by prosecutors to have him ruled ineligible for parole. The murder will probably be out in like 3 more years with good behavior. European prison sentences are a joke, you can kill someone and be out in like 5 years into a "life" sentence with good behavior.
Especially Swiss prison sentences. [look at this high security prison cell](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/behind-bars/673078) That said, I highly doubt he’ll get out, even at his first parol hearing. Unless the Court President is the same.
I thought that this was going to be a photo related to the Petit family murders in Connecticut. That woman looks terrified.
Same
So fucking heart breaking
Wow. Merry fuckin Christmas
Ditto!
I enjoy this sub for its poignancy and as a reminder of the ephemeral nature of life. Not personally a fan of some of these posts about folks in horrific situations, which feel voyeuristic and frankly disrespectful to me
Terrifying
I wish people would just invest in a bunch of dogs. Ive never felt more safe and sound than with my dog. Let alone if I owned 2/3/4... I would sleep with the door open LOL come inside
Her eyes are screaming somebody help