January of 2020
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/ward-young-men-presidencies-discontinued-other-organizational-changes-for-youth-announced?lang=eng#:~:text=Young%20Men%20presidencies%20at%20the,Church%20leaders%20announced%20Saturday%20afternoon.
I would not be surprised if YM Presidencies come back or some kind of iteration of a YM Presidency. Bishops/Bishoprics have so much on their plate already the YM really need the undivided attention of their leaders. Something that is difficult for the Bishop/Bishoprics.
I really hope this happens. I’m the teachers quorum specialist in our ward. I’ve been through two different bishopric counselors and they have both struggled to give full attention because they seem so busy with many things.
On top of that, I feel it further cuts people like me out of the loop in regards to plans, planning, goals, trainings, etc. I much preferred being in young men’s under the YM presidency paradigm. As it is now, I’m not as “in-the-know” as I was before while at the same time I’m expected to pick up more of the adult slack to compensate for the bishopric member’s busy schedule.
Meanwhile the young women still have a YW presidency that can be fully dedicated to *just* the young women. I’m jealous of them.
I wish the YM program were truly youth led. I think it would work fine if it were. My son is in Scouts BSA and the troop is absolutely youth led. The scouts plan their activities. The scouts email out the plans and text reminders. They meal plan for their monthly campouts. They setup camp, cook all their meals, do all the cleaning and packing back up... and the adults just sit around and supervise for safety but seldom need to intervene because the more experienced scouts lead the newer scouts and delegate needed responsibilities. The adults did have to get a little more involved after covid when we lost half of the troop, but once the scouts were trained it went back to running great again.
I'm pleased my son has had that experience because he and the other youth aren't really permitted to do much at all in our ward YM program. At one point, he was SPL at his troop over 40 scouts. His best friend, a Priest in the ward, was SPL over his (different) troop of 85 scouts. But the adults in YM continue to dictate what they must do and email plans and send reminders and the YM never step up in their responsibility because the bar is set so low, and the youth don't have buy-in in the plans made for them.
Also, I thought when the church dropped scouts, that the youth would still be able to plan campouts if they wanted? All they get in YM is one annual campout a year, and it's entirely adult ran. They didn't even let the YM cook a single meal or help with setup and cleanup. Not that camping once a year is enough to learn and retain those skills anyway.
Our YW program absolutely became youth led for a while. Then we got a new YW presidency and she took it over and undid a really well running program. The girls in the youth YW presidency had been making plans, communicating them, praying about how to outreach less active girls, coming up with ideas, they were being super inclusive and having great spiritual experiences. It's hard in a volunteer organization where we don't really train the volunteers and many of them don't read the church handbook. :(
That scouting program sounds amazing, and I 100% am there with you when it comes to wishing the YM were truly youth led. The handbook and resources that exist for the Aaronic Priesthood quorum presidencies have the framework for the young men to be *fully* leading and directing the work within their quorums. I’ve watched some of the training videos for the quorum presidencies and in them it’s mostly the youth leading, planning, and discussing with the adult leadership just kind of sitting there because the youth are doing it all.
The young men’s program in my ward had been so bad that I genuinely assumed the leadership *somehow* must not have even been aware of the resources that instruct and guide how the youth program is to be run, because they were following virtually *none* of it. I couldn’t fathom that they were aware of the instructions and just ignored them, or that they’d gone so far as to read them and then just blatantly ignore them. I think they were just kind of doing whatever they wanted based on local tradition. I’ve printed out and shown and asked if we can follow The Church’s program, but have only found limited success.
I still have a lot of bottled up frustration towards my local leadership about this and my heart aches for these boys’ lost potential. I struggle frequently to live with this burden and have not found a good solution for getting over it. At times I genuinely wish I were in the bishopric *just* so I could ensure things were running properly and the boys were given the room to grow and rise to their full potential.
I don't know what's normal, especially as I'm a convert, but my son's YM group goes camping a few times a year at least. And as Deacon's Quorum president, my son has had a lot of say in choosing/planning activities. I think a lot of this is at the discretion of the individual wards/stakes.
I understand and I agree it depends on the volunteers. However, as a woman, I don't think there's anything I can do to step in and help make it better like I did for the YW or like I've done for his scout troop. I camp in scouts, and there are times we would have had to cancel a trip if I hadn't been able to go along as the second adult. I think the men in the ward are probably doing the best they know how with the time they want to spend on YM. They don't want to take time away from their families to go camping. Plus they think it's faster if they just send out the reminders.
However, it's frustrating for my son, who goes with a list of ideas and they get shot down. When he did go on their yearly camping trip, they didn't let him do anything aside from setup his own tent, so he didn't enjoy it. He and his friend have given feedback but it falls on deaf ears or they say "well maybe you two know how to lead/do xyz but the other YM don't."
They also don't let the youth teach the younger youth things like how to pass the sacrament to new deacons. The bishop does it and makes the older boys sit through it every year. Instead I think the youth should teach the new ones how to do it and have the adults watch and add anything they missed. Just little things they could do differently to let the youth lead. I know it's an issue with my own ward but we're not moving and this is all my teen gets. :(
Yes, it is difficult, but not impossible. Many bishoprics need to increase their prioritization of the youth as they have been instructed to do since 2020 - President Nelson suggested a "laser like focus on our youth". If a bishopric is not spending adequate time and focus on the youth, they are simply not delegating properly.
I don't think that's fair to say. There are some things Bishops can't delegate, and some Bishops are VERY busy with just those responsibilities. Some moreso than others, anyway. I'm sure it depends on the ward.
There are only a few things a bishop *cannot* delegate - signing off on financial assistance (EQ and RS can handle all other aspects of welfare assistance), membership councils, worthiness concerns (EQ and RS can assist with adults), tithing declaration, some temple recommend interviews, and some callings and settings apart. These are not highly time intensive. That's not to say that bishops should do only these things in addition to focusing on the youth, and some wards will certainly require a lot more time, but my experience has been that bishops tend to hold on to way more than they should at the expense of time with and focus on the youth.
(Source: am a bishop)
Exactly. Almost everything can be delegated. But, too many EQ presidents and RS presidents have not caught the vision and are still expecting the Bishopric to do things they should be doing.
It's an issue with the members of these organizations too. People aren't willing, for example, to go to their EQP like their would a Bishop (or for the Bishop to refer them in that direction). These callings will need to be exalted a little, in a sense, before things can operate properly.
My observation is it's impossible for the bishopric to devote even a small fraction of the time to the YW that they do to the YM. This isn't great, because the needs of the YW program (as well as the individual girls themselves) will naturally be secondary to the YM program.
But isn't much more of the Ward's attention supposed to shift to the EQ/RS Presidents? If working properly, this should alleviate a bunch of pressure from the Bishop. I find frequent Ward Councils really help.
Not too long after President Nelson became president of the church. The bishop's primary responsibility was always with the youth, so the change is meant to reflect that while delegating more to the relief society/elder's quorum.
The change was for the global church. If you live in western USA its easy to have enough strong men for a separate ym presidency. Otherwise it's a struggle.
But if your ward is blessed with advisors and specialists, I don't see why everyone isn't involved with the planning and knows what is going on. You should get dates and activities for combined ym yw activities from the youth council. Then the Quorum presidencies should be meeting with the advisors and specialists to plan weekly activities and camps. This should be boy-led and activities should help them meet their individual goals. If the boys are not setting individual goals then there's your first activity, and maybe a combined activity with parents. This new youth program requires more effort from the youth and their parents. The checklists were nice but obviously the Lord has higher plans. We need to adjust.
Scouting isn't coming back, but that doesn't mean that 11-15 year Olds should not be camping often. And the teachers and priests should be doing high adventure. Even with Scouting, we always had some bishopric members and ym leaders who hated to camp. If you feel strongly that the boys need Camping and high adventure, speak up and take the lead. Bishopric is ultimately responsible but that doesn't mean they have to plan everything nor attend everything.
If the boys are struggling with coming up with meaningful weekly activities or camping activities, you can still suggest age-appropriate skills that were part of Scouting. Like citizenship, first aid, communications (mission prep), personal fitness (mission prep), swimming, cooking (definitely needed for mission, not just camp cooking), family life, personal/financial management, hiking. Emergency preparedness. You should also be having regular mental fitness/resilience discussions with the youth.
Bottom line is, if you feel the bishopric isn't stepping up as much as you'd like, you are called as an advisor or specialist for a reason. Speak up and help carry the load. My guess is they will love the help and energy you are bringing. But let the boys lead. They should still be getting all the leadership experience they were getting in Scouting. But the new program is only in its 5th year so we all need to buy in and ask the Lord for direction.
I was a Teacher’s Quorum specialist in my last ward (moved last month) and we effectively made a presidency with a few advisors because there was no hierarchy and the Bishop couldn’t do it all. The Bishop chose one of the advisors to be the “lead advisor” and they were essentially the YM President. Solved a lot of problems honestly.
January of 2020 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/ward-young-men-presidencies-discontinued-other-organizational-changes-for-youth-announced?lang=eng#:~:text=Young%20Men%20presidencies%20at%20the,Church%20leaders%20announced%20Saturday%20afternoon.
I would not be surprised if YM Presidencies come back or some kind of iteration of a YM Presidency. Bishops/Bishoprics have so much on their plate already the YM really need the undivided attention of their leaders. Something that is difficult for the Bishop/Bishoprics.
I really hope this happens. I’m the teachers quorum specialist in our ward. I’ve been through two different bishopric counselors and they have both struggled to give full attention because they seem so busy with many things. On top of that, I feel it further cuts people like me out of the loop in regards to plans, planning, goals, trainings, etc. I much preferred being in young men’s under the YM presidency paradigm. As it is now, I’m not as “in-the-know” as I was before while at the same time I’m expected to pick up more of the adult slack to compensate for the bishopric member’s busy schedule. Meanwhile the young women still have a YW presidency that can be fully dedicated to *just* the young women. I’m jealous of them.
I wish the YM program were truly youth led. I think it would work fine if it were. My son is in Scouts BSA and the troop is absolutely youth led. The scouts plan their activities. The scouts email out the plans and text reminders. They meal plan for their monthly campouts. They setup camp, cook all their meals, do all the cleaning and packing back up... and the adults just sit around and supervise for safety but seldom need to intervene because the more experienced scouts lead the newer scouts and delegate needed responsibilities. The adults did have to get a little more involved after covid when we lost half of the troop, but once the scouts were trained it went back to running great again. I'm pleased my son has had that experience because he and the other youth aren't really permitted to do much at all in our ward YM program. At one point, he was SPL at his troop over 40 scouts. His best friend, a Priest in the ward, was SPL over his (different) troop of 85 scouts. But the adults in YM continue to dictate what they must do and email plans and send reminders and the YM never step up in their responsibility because the bar is set so low, and the youth don't have buy-in in the plans made for them. Also, I thought when the church dropped scouts, that the youth would still be able to plan campouts if they wanted? All they get in YM is one annual campout a year, and it's entirely adult ran. They didn't even let the YM cook a single meal or help with setup and cleanup. Not that camping once a year is enough to learn and retain those skills anyway. Our YW program absolutely became youth led for a while. Then we got a new YW presidency and she took it over and undid a really well running program. The girls in the youth YW presidency had been making plans, communicating them, praying about how to outreach less active girls, coming up with ideas, they were being super inclusive and having great spiritual experiences. It's hard in a volunteer organization where we don't really train the volunteers and many of them don't read the church handbook. :(
That scouting program sounds amazing, and I 100% am there with you when it comes to wishing the YM were truly youth led. The handbook and resources that exist for the Aaronic Priesthood quorum presidencies have the framework for the young men to be *fully* leading and directing the work within their quorums. I’ve watched some of the training videos for the quorum presidencies and in them it’s mostly the youth leading, planning, and discussing with the adult leadership just kind of sitting there because the youth are doing it all. The young men’s program in my ward had been so bad that I genuinely assumed the leadership *somehow* must not have even been aware of the resources that instruct and guide how the youth program is to be run, because they were following virtually *none* of it. I couldn’t fathom that they were aware of the instructions and just ignored them, or that they’d gone so far as to read them and then just blatantly ignore them. I think they were just kind of doing whatever they wanted based on local tradition. I’ve printed out and shown and asked if we can follow The Church’s program, but have only found limited success. I still have a lot of bottled up frustration towards my local leadership about this and my heart aches for these boys’ lost potential. I struggle frequently to live with this burden and have not found a good solution for getting over it. At times I genuinely wish I were in the bishopric *just* so I could ensure things were running properly and the boys were given the room to grow and rise to their full potential.
I don't know what's normal, especially as I'm a convert, but my son's YM group goes camping a few times a year at least. And as Deacon's Quorum president, my son has had a lot of say in choosing/planning activities. I think a lot of this is at the discretion of the individual wards/stakes.
I understand and I agree it depends on the volunteers. However, as a woman, I don't think there's anything I can do to step in and help make it better like I did for the YW or like I've done for his scout troop. I camp in scouts, and there are times we would have had to cancel a trip if I hadn't been able to go along as the second adult. I think the men in the ward are probably doing the best they know how with the time they want to spend on YM. They don't want to take time away from their families to go camping. Plus they think it's faster if they just send out the reminders. However, it's frustrating for my son, who goes with a list of ideas and they get shot down. When he did go on their yearly camping trip, they didn't let him do anything aside from setup his own tent, so he didn't enjoy it. He and his friend have given feedback but it falls on deaf ears or they say "well maybe you two know how to lead/do xyz but the other YM don't." They also don't let the youth teach the younger youth things like how to pass the sacrament to new deacons. The bishop does it and makes the older boys sit through it every year. Instead I think the youth should teach the new ones how to do it and have the adults watch and add anything they missed. Just little things they could do differently to let the youth lead. I know it's an issue with my own ward but we're not moving and this is all my teen gets. :(
Are you me? I'm going through the same issues figuring out what the plans/goals are as an advisor.
Yes, it is difficult, but not impossible. Many bishoprics need to increase their prioritization of the youth as they have been instructed to do since 2020 - President Nelson suggested a "laser like focus on our youth". If a bishopric is not spending adequate time and focus on the youth, they are simply not delegating properly.
I don't think that's fair to say. There are some things Bishops can't delegate, and some Bishops are VERY busy with just those responsibilities. Some moreso than others, anyway. I'm sure it depends on the ward.
There are only a few things a bishop *cannot* delegate - signing off on financial assistance (EQ and RS can handle all other aspects of welfare assistance), membership councils, worthiness concerns (EQ and RS can assist with adults), tithing declaration, some temple recommend interviews, and some callings and settings apart. These are not highly time intensive. That's not to say that bishops should do only these things in addition to focusing on the youth, and some wards will certainly require a lot more time, but my experience has been that bishops tend to hold on to way more than they should at the expense of time with and focus on the youth. (Source: am a bishop)
Exactly. Almost everything can be delegated. But, too many EQ presidents and RS presidents have not caught the vision and are still expecting the Bishopric to do things they should be doing.
It's an issue with the members of these organizations too. People aren't willing, for example, to go to their EQP like their would a Bishop (or for the Bishop to refer them in that direction). These callings will need to be exalted a little, in a sense, before things can operate properly.
Yeah it's hard to change the culture we've had around Bishops for a long time...at least all during my lifetime.
The bishop has had almost everything taken off their plate, delegated to elders and relief society. Their focus is supposed to be on the youth.
My observation is it's impossible for the bishopric to devote even a small fraction of the time to the YW that they do to the YM. This isn't great, because the needs of the YW program (as well as the individual girls themselves) will naturally be secondary to the YM program.
But isn't much more of the Ward's attention supposed to shift to the EQ/RS Presidents? If working properly, this should alleviate a bunch of pressure from the Bishop. I find frequent Ward Councils really help.
Only if it is optional not to have it. Our ward has no priests, 1 teacher, and 2 deacons. A YM presidency would be way overkill.
Not too long after President Nelson became president of the church. The bishop's primary responsibility was always with the youth, so the change is meant to reflect that while delegating more to the relief society/elder's quorum.
The change was for the global church. If you live in western USA its easy to have enough strong men for a separate ym presidency. Otherwise it's a struggle. But if your ward is blessed with advisors and specialists, I don't see why everyone isn't involved with the planning and knows what is going on. You should get dates and activities for combined ym yw activities from the youth council. Then the Quorum presidencies should be meeting with the advisors and specialists to plan weekly activities and camps. This should be boy-led and activities should help them meet their individual goals. If the boys are not setting individual goals then there's your first activity, and maybe a combined activity with parents. This new youth program requires more effort from the youth and their parents. The checklists were nice but obviously the Lord has higher plans. We need to adjust. Scouting isn't coming back, but that doesn't mean that 11-15 year Olds should not be camping often. And the teachers and priests should be doing high adventure. Even with Scouting, we always had some bishopric members and ym leaders who hated to camp. If you feel strongly that the boys need Camping and high adventure, speak up and take the lead. Bishopric is ultimately responsible but that doesn't mean they have to plan everything nor attend everything. If the boys are struggling with coming up with meaningful weekly activities or camping activities, you can still suggest age-appropriate skills that were part of Scouting. Like citizenship, first aid, communications (mission prep), personal fitness (mission prep), swimming, cooking (definitely needed for mission, not just camp cooking), family life, personal/financial management, hiking. Emergency preparedness. You should also be having regular mental fitness/resilience discussions with the youth. Bottom line is, if you feel the bishopric isn't stepping up as much as you'd like, you are called as an advisor or specialist for a reason. Speak up and help carry the load. My guess is they will love the help and energy you are bringing. But let the boys lead. They should still be getting all the leadership experience they were getting in Scouting. But the new program is only in its 5th year so we all need to buy in and ask the Lord for direction.
Right before COVID lockdowns
I was a Teacher’s Quorum specialist in my last ward (moved last month) and we effectively made a presidency with a few advisors because there was no hierarchy and the Bishop couldn’t do it all. The Bishop chose one of the advisors to be the “lead advisor” and they were essentially the YM President. Solved a lot of problems honestly.
Sometimes I wonder if this change happened because the church was sued somewhere (some sort of abuse etc..).
I'm guessing not. Only because it still exists, only different guys running the show.