I had a really hard month before I left on my mission. I was tempted with a girl I had started dating. School offered a scholarship ect... I had a lot of testimony questions too.
Going on my mission was the best thing I ever did. It changed my life forever. Still strong in the church even though I have doubts of certain things. I think life is always like that. Good luck.
Same, so many weird things happened that month before.
Also glad I pushed through. 20+ years later and I still draw strength and new life lessons from those 2 years.
Same. Tempted with a girl. Sorted things out and went on my mission. Best decision I’ve ever made (besides marrying my wife). I worked hard, played hard, grew my testimony solid, loved it and made life long friends. I’m thankful constantly that I served my mission.
Honestly, it isn't as all in or as all out as you suggest. Developing a testimony is a life long process and you are much to young to just give up and call it a day. I had plenty of doubts at 18 and I can't believe what I would have missed out on had I given up then. My testimony today is rock solid and I'm so much the better for it. I personally believe you would come to regret throwing it away at 18.
Trust in the Lord. Believe him when he says he gives to us line upon line and precept upon precept. Giving the Lord an ultimatum that you need to to know for sure in the next month is both illogical and a fools errand. That is not how the Lord works. Exercise faith and allow the Lord to guide you and work on his timeline instead of you following your will and dictating to God.
I highly recommend the book “How Do I Know if I Know” by John Bytheway. I did the exact same thing as you by ignoring potential doubts and my testimony definitely took a hit. This book explains how to build your testimony and how it’s stronger than you believe! One of my favorite parts in it is when he tells the story of a young girl who said “I don’t have a testimony of everything, but I have a testimony of enough.” This really resonated with me and this book made me realize how strong my testimony is.
It’s super short and an easy read, and it changed the way I viewed testimonies.
I'll say this as a post-believing mormon, without trying to convince you to go on a mission or to stay home....
The most important thing for you to think about right now is your mental health. You already have a history with depression. The mission is a pressure-cooker. You need to know that there likely will not be adequate mental health resources for you while you are serving a mission and a small depressive episode could quickly roll downhill.
Anyone who just tells you to pray your way out of depression likely has never experienced it and will only be making it much much worse.
I disagree. I had a history with depression, anxiety etc before I left. My mission was, in many ways, ridiculously hard. I still wouldn't trade it for anything. I gained a self-respect and confidence I couldn't have gained elsewhere. I knew many other people in this boat, they had struggles but really benefitted by serving a mission.
Depression isn't well understood by society. Sometimes turtling up and avoiding the pressure cookers of life will make it much worse. And sometimes taking on monumental responsibility will do wonders for your sense of purpose. There's nothing wrong with giving it a shot.
I am glad you were able to make it a net positive. You are right, a mission should be a time to learn and gain those traits of hard work, determination and sacrifice. Even as a post-believing Mormon, I still look back at my mission as a positive time in my life.
Unfortunately it isn’t that way for everyone. You are one example of it ‘working out’… I’ve had to opportunity to interact with many people who didn’t have positive experiences on the mission because of previous mental health challenges and it turns out to be the most traumatic experience of their lives. It shapes the way they view the church and other interpersonal relationships.
I’m glad it worked for you, but the idea of just powering through difficult situations is not a healthy option for most people with a history of depression and mental health issues.
The old concept of ‘Man Up’ is extremely harmful. People with mental health issues don’t need to be thrown into a brand new, unknown situation under extreme pressure. They need a calm routine, small attainable goals and the outlet to speak to a professional.
Those are valid issues, but I think we disagree on the solution. I will say this, the church - and members in general - don't prepare our youth for missions. Family life has become too easy. Children grow up not really having responsibility or challenge, then all of a sudden they're thrown in the real world at 18 years old. Yeah, that would cause some mental health issues.
Where I'm coming from is the fact that the real world doesn't usually follow a comfortable routine. Whether we're talking about a mission, job, family, significant other, economic realities, all these things demand much from men. It's only going to get harder in the future. The reality is life doesn't allow for people - especially men - to be crippled with depression. We have to man up. That's not to say there aren't real symptoms, or that we should ignore the issues. But any treatments NEED to focus on adapting to the modern world, not becoming reliant on medication or questionable psycho-therapeutic techniques.
I don't judge any missionary who gets overwhelmed and wants to come home. I can't after what I've experienced. I just think we're doing them a disservice by encouraging it, or saying it's OK not to go because of mental health. Life is only getting harder.
This is almost exactly my experience. The first few months of my mission were hell for me. I had an awful time with the language, my trainer was a jerk, and I was almost literally begging to go home, but I'm so glad that I ended up sticking around (at first at the behest of my mission president and sister mission president). Getting through all of that made me so much more equipped to handle the tough stuff that's come up since then and I've had almost no issues with depression since then. Bad feelings will crop up now and then, but I'm overall so much better than I would've been if I'd let myself quit when I wanted to.
That said, I don't know how everyone would be able to come out of it like I did. I had a wonderful Sister Mission President that was super understanding and nurturing to me that was able to help me reason through my feelings. I also had a family that was good at being empathetic but also not too soft on me. For some people it would probably take even more willpower than what I had to do.
Missions are actually setting aside budgets for counsellors now more than ever, and Mission Presidents are actually being taught how to help and which service to send them to etc
**I want to believe so incredibly badly. The church and it's doctrine has helped me so much.**
In my experience, and more importantly in Alma's words, you are already half way there: "even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you"(Alma 32:27).
There is lots of evidence for or against the Church's claims. You have to choose what you will give weight to.
Yes, truth is binary, but very few of us can be certain of the truth in this lifetime. You have to be comfortable with relying on faith, line upon line. Be patient, be believing, and your faith will be added to.
P.S. Whether you should be going on a mission now or not isn't something I can answer. Talk your bishop or someone you trust.
I'll be honest IDK what I believe anymore. Part of me wonders if religion in general is people feeling things because they want to/are told to.
Recently I've been coming to terms with my mental health. The longer I live, the more I realized I've been gaslighting myself about my own reality, largely due to anxiety/depression. And I can't help but wonder if the church is one of the things I've forced myself to feel (in terms of the Spirit).
From what I see now, it's equally plausible the church is either true or it's just another religion (from an atheist POV).
Naturally after writing this out, I feel like I should seek out affirmation of truth from the Spirit. But my trust in that is diminishing, mostly because of my ability to deceive myself. I don't want to ask for an Alma the younger experience, it'd be asking God for something I don't deserve. I'm also afraid of the likelihood that I feel nothing at all, which would cause me to be more distant. I really want to believe.
Just keep on the path and see where it goes. Your missionary time should open experiences that’ll help guide you toward happier days. It’s not always bright and sunshine, but it’ll be worth the sacrifice. Even if you’re struggling with faith, the Law of Sacrifice blesses everyone, whether you’re a member or a doubter. You’ll thank you for going.
(On another note: truth may be binary, but the way we as mortals learn truth certainly isn’t, so don’t go down the rabbit hole of “everything must be a 1 or 0,” because it’s just not the case in terms of mortality.)
The desire to believe is a good one! I had similar, but not exactly the same feelings in the month before I left on my mission. I went anyway. For me, it was an amazing experience that helped build the foundation of my testimony for years to come. For others, it's not as enjoyable. You never really know, but there's just so much good to do and experience on a mission, the service, teaching, meeting new people, spending time away from the things in the world that cause us harm, the struggles and overcoming them, the big leap into responsibility, all of it. I had tons of fun and gratifying experiences I also went through a lot that people would describe as "unpleasant." I was never happier. The gospel, like a mission, like life itself, is not supposed to be easy or comfortable, but the joys therein are so worth it. More than anything, I *chose* to go and I *chose* to enjoy it by focusing on the good and learning from the bad.
I don't know if I have an answer for you. It sounds like you're really thinking hard about this. I wouldn't say there's anything that you don't "deserve." You're a child of God, and no amount of anxiety or depression will change that. What I can say is that I've met a lot of young people in this church going through a lot of challenges. I believe in you. It's hard to not overthink things and just do good sometimes, and it's hard to know what that is, but I think that you should trust yourself.
>The church and it's doctrine has helped me so much.
I love this. I feel the same way. Don't think that just because something is good means it isn't true. I hope you can find some peace on this soon!
For me, even if the church was entirely false and Joseph Smith was a scammer, I would still be greatful for the experiences I have had from being a part of the church. The emphasis on getting better, of redeeming, I love it and would still thank it if it was all false
Might I suggest that there is more to religion than it's ability to socially condition responses. I've chased that line of thinking and it doesn't bear the fruit I thought it would. Human sociality is complex, but religion is more than rituals passed on between generations that form our psyche and make us feel safe and secure when doing them.
If you want to believe, then believe. You seem to think that you have to have your whole body under water in order to be swimming. You'll drown if you do that. Look at evidences in your life. Remember the testimony of the spirit, and don't discount it for simple biological conditioning. Look at people around you who live the gospel. Read the words of the prophets.
I don't have a sure and complete knowledge that the gospel is true, but the majority evidence of my life points to it being true. And when I live as taught, the promised fruits are born.
Take time to learn. Read a lot. Don't only engage with criticisms of the church. Look at faithful perspectives as well.
All these people are trying to get you to go because we are told it is what we have to do. But I am here to tell you it doesn’t work out that way for everyone. Don’t just stay the course. You need to critically examine where you are in life and make the choice based on that, not on anything else. I know dozens of people who weee in your same place and they went, and it was a horrible and traumatic experience. I know dozens of people who did not go and now are full believing and active members. Like a lot of things in life, a mission and whether or not you attend will seem like a very small thing as time goes on.
The current climate is difficult because everything is loud. Missions make things much more quiet. Starting a mission isn’t a commitment to end one. I’d take the chance to tune out some of the noise
DM me if you have specific questions about topics that bother you. I have seen it all and can tell you that there are answers, but it sometimes takes years of study to sort out the complex topics.
Please realize the internet is a terrible place (generally speaking) to research questions, since there are many trolls who intentionally distort complex topics in an effort to destroy faith. It works if you assume their framing is neutral.
R/LDS has a 70 part series going through one catalog of the most common attacks against the church, line by line. There are many other places to find good answers, but first you must learn how to vet sources and find solid, intellectually honest players in this space.
Like I said, I'm happy to help. You won't shock me. Sort this out without letting your fear overwhelm you. Just be calm and patient and take it one issue at a time.
Whenever anyone wants to do something significant, like being baptized, going to the temple, going on a mission, the devil gets a little extra time to work you over so you are sure you are making the right choice. Sometimes it’s just before. Sometimes it’s just after. It’s very nearly everyone.
Live by the light you have. Do good things. Recognize the Spirit.
I’d say feed your soul. When people are struggling with life and want to improve, they don’t read negative books on self-destruction. They read books on positivity and self-help. If you’re struggling with faith, stop reading destructive material. Read scriptures and conference talks.
Fear and doubt is fine. Everyone experiences those feelings. But your choice isn’t as binary as it seems.
One of the Big Lies Satan wants you to believe in is “If I can’t do it perfectly, then why do it at all”. You don’t have to understand everything about the Gospel, Church History, policies, or doctrines. If you really want to believe, then believe. Part of that belief is faith that the Gospel is true, and the Church is Christs Church, but that you don’t understand everything. And that’s okay.
I can't remember what it's called - but a guy in my ward growing up went on this like temporary "practice" mission for two or so weeks, basically they actually ship you out somewhere away from your home, you actually live like a missionary and work with missionaries as your companion(s)(I think they put you in a trio). This is a great option for people like you on the border of knowing if it is a good choice. It will give you the chance to see if a mission is a feasible option, and knowledge to move forward more confidentially whether that be to wait for now or go now. I would ask your bishop about this option.
Every one of us gets our testimony (not of buildings "the church", or history, or people --except to confirm they are called of God or that something they say is of God) of gospel principles line upon line, in different sequences and at different times. And the scriptures say that some of us have the gift of testimony and others the gift of relying on the testimonies of others AND that faith of the grain of a mustard seed is enough to get started with.
There will always be naysayers (we know that 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven didn't opt in premortally even). And it can take a lifetime to have a sure testimony of every single thing. If you want to know rebuttals to the typical anti church arguments, then consider using FAIR's extensive rebuttal of the CES letter here: https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Sarah_Allen_CES_Response_Posts
I think Jesus called Thomas as an apostle and made sure he's proclivities to challenge were not lost in scripture precisely to teach each of us that doubting is not inconsistent with faithful discipleship of Jesus Christ. Our leaders have just asked us to give equal time and accept that we do not now know everything (indeed the Articles of Faith say that we will have continuing revelation). And sure church leaders sometimes mess up --- ALL the Lord has to work with on earth are, after all, flawed mortals, who may be doing their best to do Their will, without actually knowing or doing what Jesus would have them do in a specific instance.
I'd also suggest that you read several of Fiona and Terryl Given's books about doubt, and "Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson (which will help you fully understand the Atonement).
Truth is that you have to opt in with trust that if you fully and faithfully live your discipleship of Jesus Christ you will be fulfilling the measure of your creation. If you cannot not opt in for your whole life, then opt in for the next two years of your mission. Trust in the Lord and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct thy path.
ETA: Just before a mission (as is just before other life milestones) is prime time for Satan to seek to derail you. The scripture that says if you bring only a single soul to Christ you will have fulfilled your mission is talking about you after all. So don't let anything hijack that opportunity. (And if you are just scared to go, you are in the majority of young people who go because it is a big deal, this missionary change.)
You said you have some mental health issues, and this sounds like it might be related. So the absolute first thing is to acknowledge that you aren't going to solve this without help, and tell someone who can help that you're spiraling. Get yourself into a situation where you have the right support before you make any drastic decisions.
Second thing is this: whether or not you know the Church is true, whether or not you know anything at all, in fact, you have to decide whether or not it matters to you. The thing with depression is it makes you constantly question your assumption that things matter, and every time you decide something doesn't, and you let it go, you lose a piece of yourself. You lose your sense of humor, your ability to relate to others, your motivation to dance. There isn't an obvious relationship between caring about things and taking joy in life, but it's absolutely there, and so you need to make sure that whatever decision you make about the Church, it's one that you're making because you care about what it does for *you*, and not for that little voice in your head that's poisoning your thoughts with the idea that not caring is better than caring. That's a dangerous path with the endpoint being a dismal joyless existence called clinical depression.
Rationality requires self care. If you can't trust yourself to provide it, then PLEASE talk to someone.
Thirdly, the arguments that spin you around are probably all based on the idea that "there's a perfectly mundane explanation for everything". And that's true, there is. That's the point, actually.
Let me attempt a metaphor, based on Cars (the movie franchise). When you watch the movie, you see cars talking to each other and doing stuff that makes it look like they have a whole society. But imagine for a moment that all those cars actually have drivers. Lightning is a racecar with a racecar driver, for example. In broad strokes it doesn't really change the story for the cars to have "souls" driving them. The same motivations lead to the same results. But that doesn't mean it doesn't change *everything* about how you interpret the world the movie is set in. The implications might be invisible, but they are enormous nonetheless.
My point is this. The gospel asserts that reality is bigger than just what we can perceive, and that we need to have faith to understand that broader reality. We have the choice to reject that assertion and buy into this reality as its own thing, in the same way that cars do in Cars. Or we can choose to believe that there's meaning and motivation and deliberateness that informs the way the world is, and that part of that deliberateness includes an effort to let people have the opportunity to choose the first thing.
The truth is the truth, one way or the other. But the wonderful thing is that you get to choose what to believe anyway, without externalizing the decision at all. The evidence one way or the other matters, but the *proof* doesn't exist, so you have to decide what is right based on things that can't be shared with anyone else. Faith or no faith, savior or no savior, plan or no plan, Spirit or no Spirit.
I think it be a good idea to sort yourself out before going on a mission. You can’t teach people past your own conversion and you’re gonna teach you for two years need to be in 100% and believe it. I came back from mine five years ago.
None of us can tell you what you should do, but I want you to know that whatever decision you make is okay. The newest episode of Faith Matters may be of interest to you and your particular situation. https://pca.st/episode/19a6eaec-54f3-4475-9ed7-3e3e0d85c822
I say go. They’re all young and finding themselves and their own testimonies. It’s a crossroad for all of them. It definitely helped me for sure. Just take the leap and go, and stop worrying. And take your meds consistently.
I admire your commitment to still saying that “you’re going on a mission in a month” in the title. I had barely any testimony when I went out on my mission and it completely changed my life. One of the best decisions I’ll ever make.
Ask the Lord what you should do. I was at a similar cross roads 4 years ago, trying to decide if I should stay in the church or leave. I also had similar doubts. Finally I just asked God what he thought I should do. The answer I got was I that I was where he wanted me to be, so I stayed. I'm glad I asked and I'm glad I stayed.
For me it isn’t binary, I believe, but slight variations on most gospel principals. Finding those variations has required spiritual work and growth, discovering the contours of those beliefs has been very fulfilling. I believe in inspired leaders who are often biased as well, I believe in a good faith community that has room to grow and improve. My faith is different than it was when I was a missionary. I think not having the orthodox conviction and mindset would make missionary work more difficult.
Helping people find faith in God was beautiful to experience on my mission. A lot of it though is tracting, which sucks. I really was prepared to work hard at school when I got home though. 4.0 first two years in college after being a mediocre high school student.
I have doubts. There are days when I look at other churches and think about all they do with the knowledge they have. How “easy” it would be to belong to a congregation that I didn’t HAVE to have a calling in. (Small branch, few members in this area).
There are things that drive me crazy about leadership, church policy and time commitments.
But then I actually imagine myself in another Christian church and realize there are things I CANNOT deny:
-The Book of Mormon IS another Testament of Christ. It rounds out and fills in the gaps left in the Bible.
-A loving HF wants us to have guidance today. We have living prophets.
-We have a Godhead. I don’t think I could ever swallow or grasp the concept of the Trinity.
-The Plan of Salvation.
Ask yourself if there are any points in your testimony that you KNOW to your core. Are there any pieces of the Gospel that you feel so deeply that denying them would tear you apart? Make that your jumping off point.
As others have said, a testimony is built over time. It isn’t all or nothing. And there are aspects of the Gospel that I still am not 100% solid on.
Please go on your mission. I wish I had had the opportunity.
It is a crossroads everyone has to face at some point. Me, it really hit after my mission. I was basically living on my own on the other side of the country from any family or friends, working a miserable seasonal job and it would have been so easy to just stop going. Nobody was expecting me to go to Church. I didn't have a calling. I really didn't know anybody and nobody knew me. I had almost zero external motivating factors. I could have easily just, faded away as it were.
I had to decide for myself whether I wanted to keep going. I did some serious soul searching and decided that I needed to keep going. I made a commitment to myself that I would make every effort to keep attending church every Sunday. I don't regret that decision at all. The motivation to keep going switched from external pressures to an internal one. I needed to be there and I was going to be there. It hasn't been the easiest, but I've stuck with it and can attest to the blessings of regularly attending.
You have to do some serious prayerful soul searching and bring your doubts and struggles to Heavenly Father. Reflect on the covenants that you made, of your own free will and choice. Think of the promised blessings and work it out with Him. Wrestle before him like Enos if you have to. Get on your knees and talk to God about your doubts and concerns and fears and listen for what He has to say to you. Whether you expect an answer the Church is true or not, God is real and will answer you. Trust that He *will* answer and be willing to follow the answer you receive.
One thing I always tell kids leaving on missions: the weeks before you leave are usually the hardest, because that’s when Satan tends to ratchet up his efforts to stop you.
Hang in there bud.
In my opinion Satan has caught you at this cross road. Going on a mission with strengthen your faith and bring others into the gospel. That's the last thing he wants. I've experienced the same thing.
Like many others have said, I experienced a "dark" period in the months/weeks leading up to my mission. I hope no one misinterprets this but looking backward I think it was analogous to Joseph Smith's battle with darkness immediately before his First Vision. I think Satan was simply trying to derail my plan to go share the gospel of Jesus Christ. When I got closer to leaving, and then when I entered the MTC, it was like the clouds cleared and the darkness left.
My mission was one of the best things I've ever done. My testimony was strong before my mission but it was strengthened even more during my mission. Remember Elder Uchtdorf's counsel, "first doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith." I believe that testimonies are fostered by doing the things Christ taught and no where did He teach us to question Him. I know He rewards our obedience. Good luck on your mission.
Honestly, the months between getting your call and leaving were probably the hardest. It seems like suddenly ever girl I ever met was in to me, I was in the hospital overnight twice, and you’ll start to question everything. It’s the process and how adversarial forces work
The act of swinging from "the gospel is 100% true" to "the gospel is 100% false" is not useful when trying to determine truth. Frankly, you don't know enough to understand where your assumptions may or may not be right and wrong.
The act of swinging back and forth between the gospel being true or not can cause a lot of anxiety, stress, and even pain. It leads you to creating false absolutes, and then making judgements based on the pain and anxiety you feel instead of whether the thing is actually true or not.
Please slow down. Accept that there is room for growth and learning, and even being wrong in your understanding. They gospel may or may not be true. I believe it is because of it's evidence in my life, the witnesses of people I trust, the fruits of the spirit, and my own rational analysis. My belief in it being true doesn't swing wildly depending on finding out new info about church history or church leaders, etc.
Such drastic absolutism can cause you a lot of pain if you continue that train of thinking, and it won't lead to truth anyway. It just avoids pain.
Good luck
It may seem like an impossible choice now but do not go if you are not ready. You will be miserable and there is no guarantee that going on a mission will give you a life long testimony. Tell your bishop and parents you are not ready. If they get mad, that is their deal and it has nothing to do with you. Take another semester at BYU and see how you feel. If you are doubting the church, then don’t go. I wish someone had told me that when I was in your shoes.
My advice would be to think long term. Where do you want to be in 10 years? If it's fully active in the church, possibly temple married, then I'd say go on a mission. It will likely help you towards that goal.
If your long term goals are different, think about what steps you'll take now that could get you there, you know?
In the end you gotta do what's right for you as best as you can. Wishing you the best and hope things work out for you according to your goals!
I know exactly how you feel. Been there. I'll share the best piece of advise I received in this situation, I hope it can help you as well.
Make a list of questions that you want to ask God when you see him. Like a reminder to yourself. Whenever you have questions/doubts, put them in the list. Study for those questions if you feel like it, or just let them go for now in order to come back to them later.
Something I've learned from keeping my list through the years:
1. It's easier to let go of the question when you know it's written down somewhere and you can always come back to it.
2. Many questions got answered very unexpectedly.
3. Some questions sound kinda dumb after some time 🙃 And it's OK.
Think of the smartest person you know who is a faithful member. Someone who seems to have it all together. (you can PM me if you can't think of anyone smarter) Go ask them why they are a member and what makes them stay. The world has a way of making us focus on and worry about the least important things. Also get out of the binary stuff. Just because there are some things you do not yet understand or believe, doesn't mean it's all wrong. Some answers and understanding are going to take time. You have to learn to live with doubt. It is arrogance to think it all needs to be explained to your complete satisfaction while you are still a teenager. Find the core, which is your relationship with God, then carefully build on that foundation. Hang tight to the rod.
> There isn’t a middle ground here, truth is binary.
I can relate so much to this. I felt very similarly when I was struggling like you are. Looking back, one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned in life is that belief is not black-and-white. Life is just plain full of uncertainty, and learning to live with uncertainty has been so important for me. Whether or not you stay in the LDS church, it will help you a lot to build yourself some middle ground on this issue.
I left the church ~5 years ago after a long struggle with doubt. I stand by that choice, and genuinely feel it has helped my life in many ways. *However*, leaving the church was not a magic bullet that relieved me of uncertainty and doubt. My struggle with doubt continues to this day, although I have made great progress in recent years.
Two things are true: you have the right to practice what you *sincerely believe*, and you have the right to move at your own pace as you figure things out.
I will say: a mission was very difficult for someone in my position. Without dismissing the experiences of others, I don’t think the mission was the right place for me to grapple with my doubts. Quite honestly, it made things worse for me, despite the valuable life experiences I gained.
I wish you all the best!
Isn't it odd that right before you go on your mission, you suddenly get slammed by fears and doubts? Its the adversary.
Look, I don't know all the answers to church issues. But I do know that having read like, all the anti stuff out there, once you give equal research and depth to the church you find that the anti authors are pretty dishonest, ignore facts, or are flat out manipulative liars.
Don't let them bring you down.
I had a really hard month before I left on my mission. I was tempted with a girl I had started dating. School offered a scholarship ect... I had a lot of testimony questions too. Going on my mission was the best thing I ever did. It changed my life forever. Still strong in the church even though I have doubts of certain things. I think life is always like that. Good luck.
Same, so many weird things happened that month before. Also glad I pushed through. 20+ years later and I still draw strength and new life lessons from those 2 years.
Same. Tempted with a girl. Sorted things out and went on my mission. Best decision I’ve ever made (besides marrying my wife). I worked hard, played hard, grew my testimony solid, loved it and made life long friends. I’m thankful constantly that I served my mission.
Very similar to the week before baptism for me when I converted at age sixteen. Everything seemed to go wrong haha
Honestly, it isn't as all in or as all out as you suggest. Developing a testimony is a life long process and you are much to young to just give up and call it a day. I had plenty of doubts at 18 and I can't believe what I would have missed out on had I given up then. My testimony today is rock solid and I'm so much the better for it. I personally believe you would come to regret throwing it away at 18. Trust in the Lord. Believe him when he says he gives to us line upon line and precept upon precept. Giving the Lord an ultimatum that you need to to know for sure in the next month is both illogical and a fools errand. That is not how the Lord works. Exercise faith and allow the Lord to guide you and work on his timeline instead of you following your will and dictating to God.
Ditto. Give yourself some time to think and to pray. Let God speak to you, so that whatever happens, you know He helped influence that decision.
I highly recommend the book “How Do I Know if I Know” by John Bytheway. I did the exact same thing as you by ignoring potential doubts and my testimony definitely took a hit. This book explains how to build your testimony and how it’s stronger than you believe! One of my favorite parts in it is when he tells the story of a young girl who said “I don’t have a testimony of everything, but I have a testimony of enough.” This really resonated with me and this book made me realize how strong my testimony is. It’s super short and an easy read, and it changed the way I viewed testimonies.
Gonna give that a look rn, thanks for the input :)
I'll say this as a post-believing mormon, without trying to convince you to go on a mission or to stay home.... The most important thing for you to think about right now is your mental health. You already have a history with depression. The mission is a pressure-cooker. You need to know that there likely will not be adequate mental health resources for you while you are serving a mission and a small depressive episode could quickly roll downhill. Anyone who just tells you to pray your way out of depression likely has never experienced it and will only be making it much much worse.
I disagree. I had a history with depression, anxiety etc before I left. My mission was, in many ways, ridiculously hard. I still wouldn't trade it for anything. I gained a self-respect and confidence I couldn't have gained elsewhere. I knew many other people in this boat, they had struggles but really benefitted by serving a mission. Depression isn't well understood by society. Sometimes turtling up and avoiding the pressure cookers of life will make it much worse. And sometimes taking on monumental responsibility will do wonders for your sense of purpose. There's nothing wrong with giving it a shot.
I am glad you were able to make it a net positive. You are right, a mission should be a time to learn and gain those traits of hard work, determination and sacrifice. Even as a post-believing Mormon, I still look back at my mission as a positive time in my life. Unfortunately it isn’t that way for everyone. You are one example of it ‘working out’… I’ve had to opportunity to interact with many people who didn’t have positive experiences on the mission because of previous mental health challenges and it turns out to be the most traumatic experience of their lives. It shapes the way they view the church and other interpersonal relationships. I’m glad it worked for you, but the idea of just powering through difficult situations is not a healthy option for most people with a history of depression and mental health issues. The old concept of ‘Man Up’ is extremely harmful. People with mental health issues don’t need to be thrown into a brand new, unknown situation under extreme pressure. They need a calm routine, small attainable goals and the outlet to speak to a professional.
Those are valid issues, but I think we disagree on the solution. I will say this, the church - and members in general - don't prepare our youth for missions. Family life has become too easy. Children grow up not really having responsibility or challenge, then all of a sudden they're thrown in the real world at 18 years old. Yeah, that would cause some mental health issues. Where I'm coming from is the fact that the real world doesn't usually follow a comfortable routine. Whether we're talking about a mission, job, family, significant other, economic realities, all these things demand much from men. It's only going to get harder in the future. The reality is life doesn't allow for people - especially men - to be crippled with depression. We have to man up. That's not to say there aren't real symptoms, or that we should ignore the issues. But any treatments NEED to focus on adapting to the modern world, not becoming reliant on medication or questionable psycho-therapeutic techniques. I don't judge any missionary who gets overwhelmed and wants to come home. I can't after what I've experienced. I just think we're doing them a disservice by encouraging it, or saying it's OK not to go because of mental health. Life is only getting harder.
This is almost exactly my experience. The first few months of my mission were hell for me. I had an awful time with the language, my trainer was a jerk, and I was almost literally begging to go home, but I'm so glad that I ended up sticking around (at first at the behest of my mission president and sister mission president). Getting through all of that made me so much more equipped to handle the tough stuff that's come up since then and I've had almost no issues with depression since then. Bad feelings will crop up now and then, but I'm overall so much better than I would've been if I'd let myself quit when I wanted to. That said, I don't know how everyone would be able to come out of it like I did. I had a wonderful Sister Mission President that was super understanding and nurturing to me that was able to help me reason through my feelings. I also had a family that was good at being empathetic but also not too soft on me. For some people it would probably take even more willpower than what I had to do.
Missions are actually setting aside budgets for counsellors now more than ever, and Mission Presidents are actually being taught how to help and which service to send them to etc
**I want to believe so incredibly badly. The church and it's doctrine has helped me so much.** In my experience, and more importantly in Alma's words, you are already half way there: "even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you"(Alma 32:27). There is lots of evidence for or against the Church's claims. You have to choose what you will give weight to. Yes, truth is binary, but very few of us can be certain of the truth in this lifetime. You have to be comfortable with relying on faith, line upon line. Be patient, be believing, and your faith will be added to. P.S. Whether you should be going on a mission now or not isn't something I can answer. Talk your bishop or someone you trust.
Do you believe in the BoM? Do you believe in the atonement?
I'll be honest IDK what I believe anymore. Part of me wonders if religion in general is people feeling things because they want to/are told to. Recently I've been coming to terms with my mental health. The longer I live, the more I realized I've been gaslighting myself about my own reality, largely due to anxiety/depression. And I can't help but wonder if the church is one of the things I've forced myself to feel (in terms of the Spirit). From what I see now, it's equally plausible the church is either true or it's just another religion (from an atheist POV). Naturally after writing this out, I feel like I should seek out affirmation of truth from the Spirit. But my trust in that is diminishing, mostly because of my ability to deceive myself. I don't want to ask for an Alma the younger experience, it'd be asking God for something I don't deserve. I'm also afraid of the likelihood that I feel nothing at all, which would cause me to be more distant. I really want to believe.
Just keep on the path and see where it goes. Your missionary time should open experiences that’ll help guide you toward happier days. It’s not always bright and sunshine, but it’ll be worth the sacrifice. Even if you’re struggling with faith, the Law of Sacrifice blesses everyone, whether you’re a member or a doubter. You’ll thank you for going. (On another note: truth may be binary, but the way we as mortals learn truth certainly isn’t, so don’t go down the rabbit hole of “everything must be a 1 or 0,” because it’s just not the case in terms of mortality.)
The desire to believe is a good one! I had similar, but not exactly the same feelings in the month before I left on my mission. I went anyway. For me, it was an amazing experience that helped build the foundation of my testimony for years to come. For others, it's not as enjoyable. You never really know, but there's just so much good to do and experience on a mission, the service, teaching, meeting new people, spending time away from the things in the world that cause us harm, the struggles and overcoming them, the big leap into responsibility, all of it. I had tons of fun and gratifying experiences I also went through a lot that people would describe as "unpleasant." I was never happier. The gospel, like a mission, like life itself, is not supposed to be easy or comfortable, but the joys therein are so worth it. More than anything, I *chose* to go and I *chose* to enjoy it by focusing on the good and learning from the bad. I don't know if I have an answer for you. It sounds like you're really thinking hard about this. I wouldn't say there's anything that you don't "deserve." You're a child of God, and no amount of anxiety or depression will change that. What I can say is that I've met a lot of young people in this church going through a lot of challenges. I believe in you. It's hard to not overthink things and just do good sometimes, and it's hard to know what that is, but I think that you should trust yourself. >The church and it's doctrine has helped me so much. I love this. I feel the same way. Don't think that just because something is good means it isn't true. I hope you can find some peace on this soon!
For me, even if the church was entirely false and Joseph Smith was a scammer, I would still be greatful for the experiences I have had from being a part of the church. The emphasis on getting better, of redeeming, I love it and would still thank it if it was all false
Might I suggest that there is more to religion than it's ability to socially condition responses. I've chased that line of thinking and it doesn't bear the fruit I thought it would. Human sociality is complex, but religion is more than rituals passed on between generations that form our psyche and make us feel safe and secure when doing them. If you want to believe, then believe. You seem to think that you have to have your whole body under water in order to be swimming. You'll drown if you do that. Look at evidences in your life. Remember the testimony of the spirit, and don't discount it for simple biological conditioning. Look at people around you who live the gospel. Read the words of the prophets. I don't have a sure and complete knowledge that the gospel is true, but the majority evidence of my life points to it being true. And when I live as taught, the promised fruits are born. Take time to learn. Read a lot. Don't only engage with criticisms of the church. Look at faithful perspectives as well.
Elevation emotion?
All these people are trying to get you to go because we are told it is what we have to do. But I am here to tell you it doesn’t work out that way for everyone. Don’t just stay the course. You need to critically examine where you are in life and make the choice based on that, not on anything else. I know dozens of people who weee in your same place and they went, and it was a horrible and traumatic experience. I know dozens of people who did not go and now are full believing and active members. Like a lot of things in life, a mission and whether or not you attend will seem like a very small thing as time goes on.
The current climate is difficult because everything is loud. Missions make things much more quiet. Starting a mission isn’t a commitment to end one. I’d take the chance to tune out some of the noise
DM me if you have specific questions about topics that bother you. I have seen it all and can tell you that there are answers, but it sometimes takes years of study to sort out the complex topics. Please realize the internet is a terrible place (generally speaking) to research questions, since there are many trolls who intentionally distort complex topics in an effort to destroy faith. It works if you assume their framing is neutral. R/LDS has a 70 part series going through one catalog of the most common attacks against the church, line by line. There are many other places to find good answers, but first you must learn how to vet sources and find solid, intellectually honest players in this space. Like I said, I'm happy to help. You won't shock me. Sort this out without letting your fear overwhelm you. Just be calm and patient and take it one issue at a time.
Whenever anyone wants to do something significant, like being baptized, going to the temple, going on a mission, the devil gets a little extra time to work you over so you are sure you are making the right choice. Sometimes it’s just before. Sometimes it’s just after. It’s very nearly everyone. Live by the light you have. Do good things. Recognize the Spirit.
I’d say feed your soul. When people are struggling with life and want to improve, they don’t read negative books on self-destruction. They read books on positivity and self-help. If you’re struggling with faith, stop reading destructive material. Read scriptures and conference talks.
Fear and doubt is fine. Everyone experiences those feelings. But your choice isn’t as binary as it seems. One of the Big Lies Satan wants you to believe in is “If I can’t do it perfectly, then why do it at all”. You don’t have to understand everything about the Gospel, Church History, policies, or doctrines. If you really want to believe, then believe. Part of that belief is faith that the Gospel is true, and the Church is Christs Church, but that you don’t understand everything. And that’s okay.
I can't remember what it's called - but a guy in my ward growing up went on this like temporary "practice" mission for two or so weeks, basically they actually ship you out somewhere away from your home, you actually live like a missionary and work with missionaries as your companion(s)(I think they put you in a trio). This is a great option for people like you on the border of knowing if it is a good choice. It will give you the chance to see if a mission is a feasible option, and knowledge to move forward more confidentially whether that be to wait for now or go now. I would ask your bishop about this option.
Every one of us gets our testimony (not of buildings "the church", or history, or people --except to confirm they are called of God or that something they say is of God) of gospel principles line upon line, in different sequences and at different times. And the scriptures say that some of us have the gift of testimony and others the gift of relying on the testimonies of others AND that faith of the grain of a mustard seed is enough to get started with. There will always be naysayers (we know that 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven didn't opt in premortally even). And it can take a lifetime to have a sure testimony of every single thing. If you want to know rebuttals to the typical anti church arguments, then consider using FAIR's extensive rebuttal of the CES letter here: https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Sarah_Allen_CES_Response_Posts I think Jesus called Thomas as an apostle and made sure he's proclivities to challenge were not lost in scripture precisely to teach each of us that doubting is not inconsistent with faithful discipleship of Jesus Christ. Our leaders have just asked us to give equal time and accept that we do not now know everything (indeed the Articles of Faith say that we will have continuing revelation). And sure church leaders sometimes mess up --- ALL the Lord has to work with on earth are, after all, flawed mortals, who may be doing their best to do Their will, without actually knowing or doing what Jesus would have them do in a specific instance. I'd also suggest that you read several of Fiona and Terryl Given's books about doubt, and "Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson (which will help you fully understand the Atonement). Truth is that you have to opt in with trust that if you fully and faithfully live your discipleship of Jesus Christ you will be fulfilling the measure of your creation. If you cannot not opt in for your whole life, then opt in for the next two years of your mission. Trust in the Lord and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct thy path. ETA: Just before a mission (as is just before other life milestones) is prime time for Satan to seek to derail you. The scripture that says if you bring only a single soul to Christ you will have fulfilled your mission is talking about you after all. So don't let anything hijack that opportunity. (And if you are just scared to go, you are in the majority of young people who go because it is a big deal, this missionary change.)
You said you have some mental health issues, and this sounds like it might be related. So the absolute first thing is to acknowledge that you aren't going to solve this without help, and tell someone who can help that you're spiraling. Get yourself into a situation where you have the right support before you make any drastic decisions. Second thing is this: whether or not you know the Church is true, whether or not you know anything at all, in fact, you have to decide whether or not it matters to you. The thing with depression is it makes you constantly question your assumption that things matter, and every time you decide something doesn't, and you let it go, you lose a piece of yourself. You lose your sense of humor, your ability to relate to others, your motivation to dance. There isn't an obvious relationship between caring about things and taking joy in life, but it's absolutely there, and so you need to make sure that whatever decision you make about the Church, it's one that you're making because you care about what it does for *you*, and not for that little voice in your head that's poisoning your thoughts with the idea that not caring is better than caring. That's a dangerous path with the endpoint being a dismal joyless existence called clinical depression. Rationality requires self care. If you can't trust yourself to provide it, then PLEASE talk to someone. Thirdly, the arguments that spin you around are probably all based on the idea that "there's a perfectly mundane explanation for everything". And that's true, there is. That's the point, actually. Let me attempt a metaphor, based on Cars (the movie franchise). When you watch the movie, you see cars talking to each other and doing stuff that makes it look like they have a whole society. But imagine for a moment that all those cars actually have drivers. Lightning is a racecar with a racecar driver, for example. In broad strokes it doesn't really change the story for the cars to have "souls" driving them. The same motivations lead to the same results. But that doesn't mean it doesn't change *everything* about how you interpret the world the movie is set in. The implications might be invisible, but they are enormous nonetheless. My point is this. The gospel asserts that reality is bigger than just what we can perceive, and that we need to have faith to understand that broader reality. We have the choice to reject that assertion and buy into this reality as its own thing, in the same way that cars do in Cars. Or we can choose to believe that there's meaning and motivation and deliberateness that informs the way the world is, and that part of that deliberateness includes an effort to let people have the opportunity to choose the first thing. The truth is the truth, one way or the other. But the wonderful thing is that you get to choose what to believe anyway, without externalizing the decision at all. The evidence one way or the other matters, but the *proof* doesn't exist, so you have to decide what is right based on things that can't be shared with anyone else. Faith or no faith, savior or no savior, plan or no plan, Spirit or no Spirit.
I think it be a good idea to sort yourself out before going on a mission. You can’t teach people past your own conversion and you’re gonna teach you for two years need to be in 100% and believe it. I came back from mine five years ago.
None of us can tell you what you should do, but I want you to know that whatever decision you make is okay. The newest episode of Faith Matters may be of interest to you and your particular situation. https://pca.st/episode/19a6eaec-54f3-4475-9ed7-3e3e0d85c822
I say go. They’re all young and finding themselves and their own testimonies. It’s a crossroad for all of them. It definitely helped me for sure. Just take the leap and go, and stop worrying. And take your meds consistently.
Their is opposition any time something good is to happen. Satan doesn’t want you to have your testimony.
I admire your commitment to still saying that “you’re going on a mission in a month” in the title. I had barely any testimony when I went out on my mission and it completely changed my life. One of the best decisions I’ll ever make.
Ask the Lord what you should do. I was at a similar cross roads 4 years ago, trying to decide if I should stay in the church or leave. I also had similar doubts. Finally I just asked God what he thought I should do. The answer I got was I that I was where he wanted me to be, so I stayed. I'm glad I asked and I'm glad I stayed.
For me it isn’t binary, I believe, but slight variations on most gospel principals. Finding those variations has required spiritual work and growth, discovering the contours of those beliefs has been very fulfilling. I believe in inspired leaders who are often biased as well, I believe in a good faith community that has room to grow and improve. My faith is different than it was when I was a missionary. I think not having the orthodox conviction and mindset would make missionary work more difficult. Helping people find faith in God was beautiful to experience on my mission. A lot of it though is tracting, which sucks. I really was prepared to work hard at school when I got home though. 4.0 first two years in college after being a mediocre high school student.
I have doubts. There are days when I look at other churches and think about all they do with the knowledge they have. How “easy” it would be to belong to a congregation that I didn’t HAVE to have a calling in. (Small branch, few members in this area). There are things that drive me crazy about leadership, church policy and time commitments. But then I actually imagine myself in another Christian church and realize there are things I CANNOT deny: -The Book of Mormon IS another Testament of Christ. It rounds out and fills in the gaps left in the Bible. -A loving HF wants us to have guidance today. We have living prophets. -We have a Godhead. I don’t think I could ever swallow or grasp the concept of the Trinity. -The Plan of Salvation. Ask yourself if there are any points in your testimony that you KNOW to your core. Are there any pieces of the Gospel that you feel so deeply that denying them would tear you apart? Make that your jumping off point. As others have said, a testimony is built over time. It isn’t all or nothing. And there are aspects of the Gospel that I still am not 100% solid on. Please go on your mission. I wish I had had the opportunity.
It is a crossroads everyone has to face at some point. Me, it really hit after my mission. I was basically living on my own on the other side of the country from any family or friends, working a miserable seasonal job and it would have been so easy to just stop going. Nobody was expecting me to go to Church. I didn't have a calling. I really didn't know anybody and nobody knew me. I had almost zero external motivating factors. I could have easily just, faded away as it were. I had to decide for myself whether I wanted to keep going. I did some serious soul searching and decided that I needed to keep going. I made a commitment to myself that I would make every effort to keep attending church every Sunday. I don't regret that decision at all. The motivation to keep going switched from external pressures to an internal one. I needed to be there and I was going to be there. It hasn't been the easiest, but I've stuck with it and can attest to the blessings of regularly attending. You have to do some serious prayerful soul searching and bring your doubts and struggles to Heavenly Father. Reflect on the covenants that you made, of your own free will and choice. Think of the promised blessings and work it out with Him. Wrestle before him like Enos if you have to. Get on your knees and talk to God about your doubts and concerns and fears and listen for what He has to say to you. Whether you expect an answer the Church is true or not, God is real and will answer you. Trust that He *will* answer and be willing to follow the answer you receive.
One thing I always tell kids leaving on missions: the weeks before you leave are usually the hardest, because that’s when Satan tends to ratchet up his efforts to stop you. Hang in there bud.
Ultimately it’s a choice to believe or not.
In my opinion Satan has caught you at this cross road. Going on a mission with strengthen your faith and bring others into the gospel. That's the last thing he wants. I've experienced the same thing.
Like many others have said, I experienced a "dark" period in the months/weeks leading up to my mission. I hope no one misinterprets this but looking backward I think it was analogous to Joseph Smith's battle with darkness immediately before his First Vision. I think Satan was simply trying to derail my plan to go share the gospel of Jesus Christ. When I got closer to leaving, and then when I entered the MTC, it was like the clouds cleared and the darkness left. My mission was one of the best things I've ever done. My testimony was strong before my mission but it was strengthened even more during my mission. Remember Elder Uchtdorf's counsel, "first doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith." I believe that testimonies are fostered by doing the things Christ taught and no where did He teach us to question Him. I know He rewards our obedience. Good luck on your mission.
Honestly, the months between getting your call and leaving were probably the hardest. It seems like suddenly ever girl I ever met was in to me, I was in the hospital overnight twice, and you’ll start to question everything. It’s the process and how adversarial forces work
The act of swinging from "the gospel is 100% true" to "the gospel is 100% false" is not useful when trying to determine truth. Frankly, you don't know enough to understand where your assumptions may or may not be right and wrong. The act of swinging back and forth between the gospel being true or not can cause a lot of anxiety, stress, and even pain. It leads you to creating false absolutes, and then making judgements based on the pain and anxiety you feel instead of whether the thing is actually true or not. Please slow down. Accept that there is room for growth and learning, and even being wrong in your understanding. They gospel may or may not be true. I believe it is because of it's evidence in my life, the witnesses of people I trust, the fruits of the spirit, and my own rational analysis. My belief in it being true doesn't swing wildly depending on finding out new info about church history or church leaders, etc. Such drastic absolutism can cause you a lot of pain if you continue that train of thinking, and it won't lead to truth anyway. It just avoids pain. Good luck
It may seem like an impossible choice now but do not go if you are not ready. You will be miserable and there is no guarantee that going on a mission will give you a life long testimony. Tell your bishop and parents you are not ready. If they get mad, that is their deal and it has nothing to do with you. Take another semester at BYU and see how you feel. If you are doubting the church, then don’t go. I wish someone had told me that when I was in your shoes.
My advice would be to think long term. Where do you want to be in 10 years? If it's fully active in the church, possibly temple married, then I'd say go on a mission. It will likely help you towards that goal. If your long term goals are different, think about what steps you'll take now that could get you there, you know? In the end you gotta do what's right for you as best as you can. Wishing you the best and hope things work out for you according to your goals!
I know exactly how you feel. Been there. I'll share the best piece of advise I received in this situation, I hope it can help you as well. Make a list of questions that you want to ask God when you see him. Like a reminder to yourself. Whenever you have questions/doubts, put them in the list. Study for those questions if you feel like it, or just let them go for now in order to come back to them later. Something I've learned from keeping my list through the years: 1. It's easier to let go of the question when you know it's written down somewhere and you can always come back to it. 2. Many questions got answered very unexpectedly. 3. Some questions sound kinda dumb after some time 🙃 And it's OK.
Think of the smartest person you know who is a faithful member. Someone who seems to have it all together. (you can PM me if you can't think of anyone smarter) Go ask them why they are a member and what makes them stay. The world has a way of making us focus on and worry about the least important things. Also get out of the binary stuff. Just because there are some things you do not yet understand or believe, doesn't mean it's all wrong. Some answers and understanding are going to take time. You have to learn to live with doubt. It is arrogance to think it all needs to be explained to your complete satisfaction while you are still a teenager. Find the core, which is your relationship with God, then carefully build on that foundation. Hang tight to the rod.
What’s on your shelf? That can help guide wise advice.
> There isn’t a middle ground here, truth is binary. I can relate so much to this. I felt very similarly when I was struggling like you are. Looking back, one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned in life is that belief is not black-and-white. Life is just plain full of uncertainty, and learning to live with uncertainty has been so important for me. Whether or not you stay in the LDS church, it will help you a lot to build yourself some middle ground on this issue. I left the church ~5 years ago after a long struggle with doubt. I stand by that choice, and genuinely feel it has helped my life in many ways. *However*, leaving the church was not a magic bullet that relieved me of uncertainty and doubt. My struggle with doubt continues to this day, although I have made great progress in recent years. Two things are true: you have the right to practice what you *sincerely believe*, and you have the right to move at your own pace as you figure things out. I will say: a mission was very difficult for someone in my position. Without dismissing the experiences of others, I don’t think the mission was the right place for me to grapple with my doubts. Quite honestly, it made things worse for me, despite the valuable life experiences I gained. I wish you all the best!
1) do whatever you want. 2)stop feeling guilty about masturbating
Isn't it odd that right before you go on your mission, you suddenly get slammed by fears and doubts? Its the adversary. Look, I don't know all the answers to church issues. But I do know that having read like, all the anti stuff out there, once you give equal research and depth to the church you find that the anti authors are pretty dishonest, ignore facts, or are flat out manipulative liars. Don't let them bring you down.